does dennis miller take the smart ass act too far?

[BubbaStrangelove]

when dennis miller is on weekend update, or DM live, I dig him. he says some funny stuff, and makes clever observations, depite them being overly simplified.


but does anyone else agree that the guy needs to drop the act every once and awhile?


I'm speaking of two particular instances:

Joe Dirt
and Monday Night Football


I thought Joe Dirt was an alright movie, but everytime Miller was on, I understood why the film did so poorly. The guy sucks all of the fun out of this dumb, but cute, flick. Did the audience really need his clever quips about the main character? Or would we have been okay to figure that stuff out on our own, and did Miller perhaps ruin the movie for people who didn't catch the pop culture significance of the main character? Shut up, Dennis.

And while I enjoyed Dennis on Monday Night Football, he really got creamed by fans, and I notice he wasn't around this season.

I don't know. Everyone has an act, but the whole smart ass, wise-guy, smug thing went out a long time ago. I think it's time Miller checked himself.

[BubbaStrangelove]

shoot. i meant to post this is the gossip forum

[Buck Turgidson]

I used to love him in his "Weekend Update" days, but he's gradually managed to irritate me more and more over the years.

A few reasons: as you say, (and Robin Williams is like this, too, as are a lot of other comedians), he won't drop his schtick. Not even for a minute.

He used to be irreverent and cutting edge, but somewhere along the way, he fell in love with applause and started dumbing down his act, and also affecting a kind of faux Will Rogers "Shoot, folks..." personna.

He grew far too relaint on his writers, and it made him very, very lazy. I remember during one of Clinton's State of the Union addresses that Comedy Central had him cover live, he was totally at sea as to who a lot of recognizable figures were. That's no big deal if you work the LCD, like Tim Allen, but if your pose is Wised-Up Hipster, you'd better have some idea what you're talking about. You can't really be a smart ass w/o being smart.

[Grebdron]

I think the problem is that the general public can't understand his "schtick." I've met him, and he is genuinely wry and funny. It's not an act. He was murdered on MNF because the vast majority of beer swilling football fans don't know that the Yangtze is a river, let alone care. I like him because he's different, and doesn't feel the need to dumb himself down.

And as far as things like Joe Dirt go, he didn't write it, they cast him. Who of us would turn down a large paycheck?

[BubbaStrangelove]

well, two extremely different povs here.

lemme say, that I like Miller. but he takes the "i'm smart" persona too many places.

He should have known better than to take it to MNF -- I liked him there, but could clearly see that he was a sore thumb. too bad, though.

maybe more appropriate questions to pose is -- do you think Miller is bound to be type-cast? do you think he is capable of just toning down.

i remember a movie with kirstie alley, and john laroquet where he played a neighbor or something. he was totally okay and not so intellectual.

[ninja555]

Well I honestly don't get allot of his humor. However what i do get isn't very funny. It's just fast and makes use BIG words. Woopde doo. He has a show where everyone pretends to laugh to seem as if they're intellectuals. I don't dig it in the least. He seems to come off as if he's above everyone else. And he prolly is. But the man has to pull his head out of his ass once in a while. Leave the brandishing of your college professor wit at the fucking door. It's annoying.

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by ninja555
He has a show where everyone pretends to laugh to seem as if they're intellectuals. I don't dig it in the least. He seems to come off as if he's above everyone else.

See, that's why he's not as popular as some other comedians. If you're smart and use big words, you get railed on by people who say you think you're above them. And if you laugh at him, you're only pretending to be an intellectual. What a load of shit. If you don't understand him or his humor, just say so. But obviously some of us do.

[Buck Turgidson]

I always applauded the fact that he skated above the LCD and didn't pander to it. I really think that's changed, at least a little, in the past 6-8 years. I think he has dumbed down his humor on occasion. :Like I said, he's never going to capture the Tim Allen crowd, but he's dilluted his material more lately than he ever used to.

Example: I heard him do the same bit on his show, and then Leno's show. He said France looked at America and saw "One giant collective Max Baer" on his show. When he got to Jay's show, that became "...one big Jethro Bodine." That seems small, but it's a change the '86-'88 Miller wouldn't have made.

He started losing steam when he did that awful talk show in the early 90's (The Leno and Letterman-esque show, not his HBO show, which I alwas liked, at least a little, and sometimes more.)

He also has always employed a staff of good writers, who's work he is always willing to take credit for.

He's a mixed bag for me. I'll aways kind of like him (and he did a much better job on MNF than I expected him to), but there will also always be a distance w/ him, that I didn't feel in the late 80's.

[Tom Samborski]

Miller is hillarious. Sure, it gets overdone after awhile, but man oh man can that guy start up a rant.

[ninja555]

Originally posted by Grebdron
See, that's why he's not as popular as some other comedians. If you're smart and use big words, you get railed on by people who say you think you're above them. And if you laugh at him, you're only pretending to be an intellectual. What a load of shit. If you don't understand him or his humor, just say so. But obviously some of us do.

I GET his humor. It just isn't FUNNY. And I have talked to many people who feel the same way. It's a natural human reaction to laugh when the crowd laughs. And I'm sorry but the average joe coming to a live taping of a television show doesn't have that kind of kinetic wit. And i doubt you do either. Not saying you're not smart. Just saying I doubt every time miller throws together a mixture of SAT vocab and History major info you hit the floor laughing in complete comprehension. If his jokes are so multi-leveled and deep it hinders the audiences chance to catch anything. Not even the super witty can keep up half the time. I don't give a shit how smart it is. It is NOT funny. It's just some smart ass who can talk fast and reference shit no one's thought about since college. Fuck all that.

[Raena]

When I was in line for tickets at the Holocaust museum here in DC, a few years back, I had a conversation with a man who used to write jokes for Dennis Miller when he was on SNL.

[BubbaStrangelove]

raena - the suspence is killing me! what did he say? where is your trademark suprised icon?



Grebdron - what do you mean he's not as popular as other comedians? Like who is he less popular than? He has his own show. that's the pinnacle of comedian popularity!




i noticed that Miller wasn't cracking too many smart jokes in those 1-800-Collect commercials.

[Grebdron]

Everybody wants a paycheck. That's why he does the Collect commercials.

I meant that he's not as popular as say an Adam Sandler (20 Mil. a picture.) And that's probably because he doesn't fart, or show a 4 year old how to piss in public. That seems to be what most people find funny.

And no ninja, I don't recognize every one of his archaic references, but do you laugh at everything any comedian does? He's bright and funny, IMHO, and I enjoy his comedy. I think the majority of people don't get his comedy, so try to feel superior by saying that nobody else really does, they're just posing. To each his own.

[BubbaStrangelove]

nah - i wasn't using the 1-800-collect thing against Miller,

some of my favorite stars have also done those commericals:

David Arquette
Carrot Top
Vern Troyer

okay, okay -- now I am acting like I'm using it against him, but I'm not --

Like I said, Miller is A-OK by me

i see what you're saying about the popularity thing


I'll stilll revert back to my original point though, and just direct this statement directly at Miller.

"Dear Mr. Miller, I think you are funny, very funny. However I often find that you treat everything like you are doing a dissertation. Everything doesn't have to be summarized. Some of your best moments don't always include heavy intellectual references. I will remind you of the time that you showed me a picture of Ronald Reagan sporting a wool hat, and you said he was going to be in a sequel to One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. You didn't say he was goig to be playing Randal McMurphy, did you? No, and it was funny.

[Country1969]

I don't think he's funny.

[electriclite]

I like Miller, and just like sardines on pizza, he's an acquired taste (i prefer pineapples).

When I first saw him do stand up on HBO, I had to tell everyone in the room to shut up so I could hear him since he was talking so fast!

No I don't get all his archaic references, but when he said his old TV show's ratings [i]"read like the geneology of the kid on the steps in Deliverance"[i] I LAUGHED. And immediately after that quip he joked how some of the people in the audience didn't understand what he just said.

I especially love him when he rants. I mean, on a good day I can only hope to deliver an opinion as passionately, relevenatly and humorously in under a minute!

Now, in terms of his schtick, it's Hollywood, nobody is viewed in a 3 dimensional angle. People are characterized in about the same length as a tagline.
He probably shouldn't have been in Joe Dirt, but that's the fault of the filmmakers.

I think the only reason why you can argue that's he's taken his schtick too far is because no one has stepped up to take the torch, opting instead for the easy laughs. You create a better audience by pandering to their baser desires, instead of excluding for their lack of knowledge on certain subjects. After all, like they said in Chasing Amy: "The money's in dick and fart jokes".

[BubbaStrangelove]

Originally posted by electriclite
I think the only reason why you can argue that's he's taken his schtick too far is because no one has stepped up to take the torch, opting instead for the easy laughs.


i don't know about that - because i feel the same way about Howard Stern (though I never liked stern, except that time Luke Perry grabbed his ass)

i think when personalities have giant overwelming ego's, like Howard Stern and Dennis Miller (intellegence quota aside) that it just gets old. Jack Nicholson figured this out. Lately it seems like Jack is focusing on not playing "Jack."

Dennis Miller needs to watch himself. You're right electiclit, it is a schtick. Gilbert Godfrey had a schtick. Bobcat Goldwaith had a schtick.



here is a take on it --

Dennis Miller should take notes from Eddie Izzard

[electriclite]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove



here is a take on it --

Dennis Miller should take notes from Eddie Izzard

I dunno about that one. I mean we're talking two very different schools of comedy there. You've got the ludicrousness of British humor against the American political commentary. Or to put it simply:

"The day Dan Quayle becomes our president is the day Shelley Winters rns with the bulls at Paploma" against "That's one small step for man one giant leap fo........ OH! It's all squishy!"

I listen to Eddie Izzard I think of Monty Python (which ironically he was discovered by John Cleese) and I don't think Dennis Miller could take reference or notes from that, I don't think he could inegrate that kind of humor.

I think the problem is, and what happens to many people in show business, that they've been around for years and you've seen their routine for years and you just grown bored with it.

[the movie guy]

I like Dennis Miller, and I LOVE Dennis Leary... I think. It's been a while since I've watched TV (5 months), let alone watched them.

[BubbaStrangelove]

I just think Miller is losing his sense of humour and being more reliant on being a smart ass.

I'm wondering if it is related to him cutting the mullet.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
here is a take on it --

Dennis Miller should take notes from Eddie Izzard


I like that, very much.

One of my biggest gripes on the current version of Dennis, is that he's gotten rather lazy, as I've previously stated. The price of highbrow comedy is, like it is for liberty, eternal vigilance. Miller's basic attitude for @ ten years now has been a variation on "Ah...fuck it."

He has spent most of the last decade at the Billy Baldwin Memorial Post Office, mailing it in.

I don't get the idea that Eddie has a whole posse of writers like Miller does, and he seems to have a good connection to both current affairs and a good grasp of world history. I dare anybody who's seen him not think of his bit about the British Empire relying on "The cunning use of flags" as a means of conquest the next time you seee or read something about the expansion of the Empire. It's funny and absurd, but I'll be damned if it isn't quite trenchant at the same time.

That is pretty much how they did it...

[BubbaStrangelove]

Originally posted by electriclite
I listen to Eddie Izzard I think of Monty Python (which ironically he was discovered by John Cleese) and I don't think Dennis Miller could take reference or notes from that, I don't think he could inegrate that kind of humor.


but Miller can and does integrate that kind of humour - I'm not talking British humour - I'm just talking about intellegent silliness.

fine --

Dennis Miller should take notes from David Cross, another very intellegent comedian.

I've seen Miller be silly. He is capable of being silly. Weekend Update was very silly (but smart).

the point I'm getting at is it feel like Miller used to be: 50-50 silly guy-smart guy.

not it's more like 5 - 95.

why so damn serious miller? bring back the mullet!

[electriclite]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
but Miller can and does integrate that kind of humour - I'm not talking British humour - I'm just talking about intellegent silliness.

fine --

Dennis Miller should take notes from David Cross, another very intellegent comedian.

I've seen Miller be silly. He is capable of being silly. Weekend Update was very silly (but smart).

the point I'm getting at is it feel like Miller used to be: 50-50 silly guy-smart guy.

not it's more like 5 - 95.

why so damn serious miller? bring back the mullet!


Like I said, the guy's gotten older, the schticks grown old. His Weekend Update days are like a DECADE old. It happens man, you just tend to lose that spark after a while and you become more settled.

Let's try to be content that we have Izzard, Cross and Louis Black to take up the slack.

[Buck Turgidson]

Considering what kind of show he hosts and where he hosts it, Jon Stewart is pretty damned smart and quite irreverent. He has barely slackened up on Bush at all in the last year. Most everyone else seems terrified of committing Lese Majeste.

[BubbaStrangelove]

Originally posted by electriclite
It happens man, you just tend to lose that spark after a while and you become more settled.

makes me glad to know I don't have a spark to loose.


Buck - Stewart is very good. I think he has some kickin' writers on his show, and his delivery is outstanding.

[Grebdron]

Jon Stewart is excellent, and so is Louis Black. But many people's argument here about Dennis Miller can also be used against Stewart. Should he have been in Big Daddy? I think not. Misused. But, like I said before, everybody wants a paycheck.

[BubbaStrangelove]

i thought stewart was okay in Big Daddy - i don't remember him being all that much like he was on the Daily Show. He wasn't using a schtick. at least not as bad as miller in Joe Dirt.

ur right though - my biggest complaint with Joe Dirt was actually the writting on the Miller parts - and interesting bit is that all of Miller's parts were filmed in one session on one day. Perhaps that has something to do with him seeming so... i dunno, just so much like he wasn't acting.

[the movie guy]

Stuart in Big Daddy was okay... It was Suart in Death to Smoochy that wasn't. The negative to this movie should be burnt, and all DVDs seized by the government and dumped into space. Same with the VHS's and still-existing film reels.

[PapaJupe2k]

I enjoy some of Miller's comedy, but he had no business being in the Monday Night Football booth! I not questioning in football knowledge, he seemed pretty well prepared, but his style. To me he came off as aloof and considered himself above the audience. His obscure references just really contrasted with the flow of the broadcast. The average fan at home want's to identify with someone like Madden, who you could see yourself sitting on a barstool having a beer with and talking football, as opposed to some wise cracking intelluctual type. Good move to get him outta there. I oftentimes thought he was trying more to entertain himself than the fans at home.

[electriclite]

Let's remember one of the original guys who headed up the Monday Night Football spot, a MR. HOWARD COSELL.

Not exactly a Madden-type and managed to stay for a considerable number of years. Yeah, they hated him, but they hated him while watching TV, i.e. ratings

The way I figure it, the "jock-ocracy" just doesn't like being in the spotlight in the middle of a "duh-uh?" moment and Miller provide far too many for them to take.

[PapaJupe2k]

Your right Howard was hated for his outspoken controversial style. He also had a certain charm in the fact that he took himself so seriously sometimes, you couldn't help but laugh at the guy. Love him or hate him you were gonna watch Monday Night Football. I think your right about Dennis Miller leaving people going "huh", that kind of response just left people indifferent to him.

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by PapaJupe2k
I enjoy some of Miller's comedy, but he had no business being in the Monday Night Football booth! I not questioning in football knowledge, he seemed pretty well prepared, but his style. To me he came off as aloof and considered himself above the audience. His obscure references just really contrasted with the flow of the broadcast. The average fan at home want's to identify with someone like Madden, who you could see yourself sitting on a barstool having a beer with and talking football, as opposed to some wise cracking intelluctual type. Good move to get him outta there. I oftentimes thought he was trying more to entertain himself than the fans at home.


OOOHHH. I can't stand John Madden. He talks to everybody like they're stupid, constantly repeats himself, and LOOOOOOVES to hear himself talk. I'd take Dennis Miller back in a heartbeat. At least he doesn't think we're all blithering idiots.

[Haddonfield]

Im a HUGE fan of Miller. His "White Album" is downright funny. He certainly has changed and I think its for the better. On his HBO show he certainly became looser. Not as quick to get 5 jokes out in a 2 joke time span. He rants may be hit or miss depending on the subject but always entertaining. His "movie career" is pretty much a joke. He always seems out of place no matter where he is.

Personaly I enjoy how they pick out the lowest IQ phone callers on his show so he can get a few jabs in. (problem is half of em are from my hometown!)

His Dennis Millerenium show was FUNNY stuff.

I also think comediens get more cynical as the years go on...Look at George Carlin, my personal choice for the next president of the US, he sobered up and each year gets more and more pissed off. I think Miller changed for the better....

[electriclite]

Originally posted by Haddonfield
Im a HUGE fan of Miller. His "White Album" is downright funny.

Isn't the White Album, Lewis Black's?

[BubbaStrangelove]

yeah Greb!

Finally someone I can bitch about Madden with!!


ever notice how Madden will say something 5 times, then be flat out wrong about it? "Oh, watch they're going to call holding. That was holding. Did you see that? He held him! Right here, holding."\

Ref: "Personal foul!"

Madden: "Oh wow! I thought they were going to call holding!"




Or what about when Madden starts playing with the pen and makes us miss a great play. It's sooo funny when they cut Madden off because something great just happened.



And why is Madden football like the only video game where you can't shut the announcer off? Hmmm.....

[Haddonfield]

Originally posted by electriclite
Isn't the White Album, Lewis Black's?


He may have his own but Miller put one out I want to say in 1988.

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
yeah Greb!
Finally someone I can bitch about Madden with!!
ever notice how Madden will say something 5 times, then be flat out wrong about it? "Oh, watch they're going to call holding. That was holding. Did you see that? He held him! Right here, holding."\

Ref: "Personal foul!"
Madden: "Oh wow! I thought they were going to call holding!"
Or what about when Madden starts playing with the pen and makes us miss a great play. It's sooo funny when they cut Madden off because something great just happened.
And why is Madden football like the only video game where you can't shut the announcer off? Hmmm.....


You know what? Being a lifelong Raider fan, I appreciate what John Madden Did for us ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO. Now he can shut the fuck up. I can almost feel Al Michaels, one of the best sportscasters ever, cringe when JM starts to speak. You know he can't stand to be in there with him.