Extreme, hardcore feminists (and they HATE horror) [Archive]

Jason Voorhees

10-15-2002, 04:12 AM

Ugh. I saw that headline, ''Open letter to Men,'' and stopped reading. I don't need their vindictive, sycophantic, pretentious ranting.

Anyone who is ''extreme, or hardcore'' about any morally ambiguous issue is wrong, in my opinion. There are two sides to every issue; If you can't even deign to consider the other side, then you're wrong (again, just my opinion). I'm not saying that having a firm, solid opinion is wrong, rather that, not even acknowledging or respecting the other side of any morally equivocal issue is ridiculous. I have strong opinions. I can also understand opposing viewpoints, something these types ostensibly have difficulty with.

Okay, I've looked it over (skimmed through it), saw the reference to the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and stopped reading. How delusional are these people? TCM is not about violence against women, or anything even resembling misogyny; it's about a group of innocent kids discovering not only how evil humanity can be, but how well it can hide among us...in your seemingly innocuous, fellow backwoods family for instance.

I have nothing wrong with strong women, or women who demand equality, but some people are utterly ridiculous. They want to ban pornography? Fucking stupid idea. I seem to remember that normal, intelligent, women enjoy that stuff just as well as men; although, in the world these militant feminists live in, women probably don't masturbate, or have orgasms, and hate men like they're all Satan incarnate.

Not to mention that without pornography, some assholes would probably resort to rape for their sexual fix. This is a cure worse than the problem.

Frankly, a moral decision to watch pornography or not is that of the individual; no one is forcing it on you. We have labels and ratings to inform you of what you're watching so you can make intelligent, informed, and beneficial decisions. By that same token, no one should be forcing it away from you either. Do they not realize that not only is sex a normal part of human nature, but that the individuals who participate in porn are okay with the concept? It's not like they were abducted and forced to perform on camera, any less than average people are forced to watch it.

Thank God for the first amendment. Freedom is too valuable to be taken away by a few people who live in an alternate reality, one in which we are not only seemingly unable to make our own moral decisions, but are somehow less qualifed to do so than they are. Well, in a phrase, fuck them.

P.S. No offense intended to civilized and intelligent women (who are thankfully the majority). My diatribe is just directed at the militant psychopaths who want to take away our freedoms.

P.S.S. I was only skimming through that little harangue, but I did see something about banning ''dirty'' magazines or whatever, so that's what I was responding to.

Lady Summerisle

10-15-2002, 10:30 AM

HOLEEE CRAP! Feminist? I am reconsidering calling myself one now.

The images that society puts forth requires acts from both sexes.

Do you think Marilyn Burns thought she was being targeted, sex-wise when she signed on to TCM? What about PlayBoy?
The models in PLAYBOY do so of their own free volition, knowing men would ogle their airbrushed like-nesses.

No need to attack what is supposed to be entertainment. Maybe Brian DePalma put forth images that could be construed as misogynist. But I don't see a reason to blame it on degarding women.

As a woman, I don't think all pornography is degrading, since women are the main participants for male fantasies. They often spearhead the porno sites.

HORROR SHOULD NOT BE LAMBASTED FOR ITS PORTRAYALS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN!

CeMeTaRy_GaTeS

10-15-2002, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Lady Summerisle
HOLEEE CRAP! Feminist? I am reconsidering calling myself one now.

The images that society puts forth requires acts from both sexes.

Do you think Marilyn Burns thought she was being targeted, sex-wise when she signed on to TCM? What about PlayBoy?
The models in PLAYBOY do so of their own free volition, knowing men would ogle their airbrushed like-nesses.

No need to attack what is supposed to be entertainment. Maybe Brian DePalma put forth images that could be construed as misogynist. But I don't see a reason to blame it on degarding women.

As a woman, I don't think all pornography is degrading, since women are the main participants for male fantasies. They often spearhead the porno sites.

HORROR SHOULD NOT BE LAMBASTED FOR ITS PORTRAYALS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN!

Well said.
That site is just as bad as cap-alert. Some people take things too seriously. Plus some of the problems they fought for seemed trivial. Namely removing Aunt Jamima's name from syrup, instead of helping the third world.

Madman Marz

10-15-2002, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Jason Voorhees
Ugh. I saw that headline: ''Open letter to Men'' and stopped reading. I don't need their vindictive, sycophantic, pretentious ranting.

Anyone who is ''extreme, or hardcore'' about any morally ambiguous issue is wrong imo. There are two sides to every issue, If you can't even deign to consider the other side; then you're wrong, simple as that; In my humble opinion. I'm not saying that having a firm, solid opinion is wrong, rather that, not even acknowledging or respecting the other side of any morally equivocal issue is ridiculous. I have strong opinions, I can understand opposing viewpoints as well; something these types ostensibly have difficulty with.

Ok, I've looked it over (skimmed through it), saw the reference to the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and stopped reading. How delusional are these people? TCM is not about violence against women, or anything even resembling misogyny. It's about a group of innocent kids discovering not only how evil humanity can be, but how well it can hide among us; in your seemingly innocuous fellow backwoods family for instance.

I have nothing wrong with strong women, or women who demand equality, but some people are frankly ridiculous. They want to ban pornography? Fucking stupid idea, I seem to remember that normal, intelligent, women enjoy that stuff just as well as men; though, in the world these militant feminists live in, women probably don't masturbate, or have orgasms. And hate men like they're all Satan incarnate.

Not to mention that without pornography, some assholes would probably resort to rape for their sexual fix. This is a cure worse than the problem.

Frankly, a moral decision to watch pornography or not is that of the individual; no one is forcing it on you. We have labels and ratings to inform you of what you're watching so you can make intelligent, informed, and beneficial decisions. By that same token, no one should be forcing it away from you either. Do they not realize that not only is sex a normal part of human nature, but that the individuals who participate in porn are ok with the concept? It's not like they were abducted and forced to perform on camera, any less than average people are forced to watch it.

Thank God for the first amendment. Freedom is too valuable to be taken away by a few people who live in an alternate reality, one in which we are seemingly unable to make our own moral decisions; so they want to make them for us? Well, in a phrase, fuck them.

P.S. No offense intended to civilized and intelligent women (who are thankfully the majority). My diatribe is just directed at the militant psychopaths who want to take away our freedoms.

P.S.S. I was only skimming through that little harangue, but I did see something about banning ''dirty'' magazines or whatever. So that's what I was responding to.

Well said man, you made alot of valid points in there. I consider myself a liberal, a left wing and an activist. And i also believe in women's rights. But what they are saying is shit. How did the Texas Chainsaw Massacre degrade women? What a bunch of shit. And they go and say anyone who doesn't follow their shit is a bigot and a fascist (or atleast i think they did, i only merely skimmed the article), then what do they consider themselves after all the shit they said? And why a ban on pornography? The women in it all agree to pose. Are they forced? It's good that they're fighting for the rights that women deserve. But some of their statements and points are illogical and just show their intolerance towards different groups of people. I'll keep my freedom. And if they don't like it, too fucking bad.

The Claw

10-15-2002, 05:16 PM

that is idiotic. so your bigot and facist if you dont agree with them? screw that i'll keep my porn and freedom thank you. and no im not a bigot or a facist I HATE EVERYONE EQUALLY ;)

Jason Voorhees

10-15-2002, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Madman Marz
Well said man, you made alot of valid points in there. I consider myself a liberal, a left wing and an activist. And i also believe in women's rights. But what they are saying is shit. How did the Texas Chainsaw Massacre degrade women? What a bunch of shit. And they go and say anyone who doesn't follow their shit is a bigot and a fascist (or atleast i think they did, i only merely skimmed the article), then what do they consider themselves after all the shit they said? And why a ban on pornography? The women in it all agree to pose. Are they forced? It's good that they're fighting for the rights that women deserve. But some of their statements and points are illogical and just show their intolerance towards different groups of people. I'll keep my freedom. And if they don't like it, too fucking bad.

Thank you for the kind words. They mean a lot to me. I hadn't noticed their close-minded, ''If you don't agree, you're wrong'' attitude (I only skimmed through it like you did. Who could blame us?), but I don't doubt that they took such a stance (how atypical of fanatics :rolleyes:). Of course, that's their crutch for disregarding opposing arguments and opinions. They're too idiotic to even acknowledge the validity of their detractors, or recognize that debating over opposing viewpoints is one of the best ways to achieve true intellectual growth. I guess they're perfectly content with their own blind stupidity and misguided hatred, though.

Tsk Tsk Tsk.

countchocula

10-15-2002, 06:02 PM

I won't even entertain the idea of reading that article. Besides, it's already blatant that women should only be viewed as sex objects. That's all they're good for. Females are victimized in horror films because they deserve it! Who in their right mind would be in favor of equality?

Jewbo

10-15-2002, 06:27 PM

Jason Voorhees u r an insperation 4 us all. u really do show that us horror fans are not all stupid people as many put us out to b. ur views are superb and well thought out. Jason Voorhees id vote for u in an election any day.

skweemkween

10-15-2002, 06:40 PM

:rolleyes:

If you ask me, it sounds like these chicks just really need to take it in the shorts.

ooookay, for all of you that was a joke. In all seriousness, feminists? Get off MY side! Go write in your past life dream journal!!!

Sugar Magnolia

10-15-2002, 09:45 PM

Also, more men died in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre than women.

RavenBlade

10-15-2002, 09:55 PM

I know this was already responded to in this manner,
but......Listen, I find it weird, that those feminist's
blame men, for oggling over woman, who have themselves
free will, and put themselves in such situations, as porn,
playboy, horror. We, do not force them into the acts
of their so called degradation. The women who participate
in it, are free to do as they so choose.
So for us to get the blame, is down right rude, and
inconsiderate.

Wow, I watched a horror movie, where a woman got
cut in half, yeah, that must make me one of those
people who love to see woman get hurt.
And last time I checked, it was all fiction.

Sorry, I just don't think so.
Listen you little fem-bot yodel heads, think before you
write your so called facts.

Who are those yodel heads anyway?
woman who can't get mans attention,
so they blame them for everything?

They are so weird.

Raven

Dr Martin Luther Loomis

10-15-2002, 10:40 PM

They'd certainly get a kick out of Argento's flicks...

p1phillips

10-16-2002, 01:10 AM

When I saw that the article was inspired by Andrea Dworkin, I pretty much knew what I was in for. I had the misfortune of having to do a feminist unit at university. I was one of ten guys in the entire unit. If you think that article alone is bad, wait until you see the full extent of it! Hardcore feminists like to blame science (!!!) for their problems, because it is science and evolution's fault that they are born with wider hips for childbirth and thus pigeonholing them as "products for mens' virility" (i'm not making this up).

Andrea Dworkin is one of the most deluded feminists ever. She once claimed that women should be given their own island and that would remove all their problems because there would be no men around. She seemed to ignore the fact that even if you removed men from the equation, these women would then be classified and discriminated against for other factors, such as race, sexuality and class.

That's the main problem with any sort of hardcore activism - they're always saying "give us a voice! let us be heard!", but as soon as somebody gives an opposing viewpoint they turn around and say "shut the hell up! we're going to ban you from ever speaking your mind again!". Just look at Eminem.

This sort of militant feminism is so wrapped up in hate and blame that is beyond any sort of rational comprehension. Since they can't look at themselves objectively, they lay the blame on outside influences - such and pornography and horror movies. They seem to forget that the rape and torture of women was around long before there was porn or horror flicks!

Cyclonus

10-16-2002, 02:25 AM

Be sure to check out the main site. Their ramblings on women and body image read more like a parody of feminism.

These people sure sound miserable. I wonder if they enjoy any kind of art at all? :(

FeydRautha

10-16-2002, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by Lady Summerisle
HOLEEE CRAP! Feminist? I am reconsidering calling myself one now.

You and me both, Lady S.! I admit I haven't read the whole article (skimming through it was bad enough), but this is what I've always described as Militant Feminism. The Andrea Dworkin reference clinched it, she's written a lot on the MF theme. These people come across as borderline Separatists.

Plus the fact that they compare the fight for racial equality to the fight for gender equality is a joke. As far as I can tell, in the Western world a woman has never been told to sit at the back of the bus, or use a different public toilet or water fountain.

I supported the Feminist Movement because I just wanted to get the same pay and respect in my profession as my male colleagues. (It hasn't happened yet, but I live in hope...) But I can't stand extremism of any kind, and their comments on women's "forced" roles in horror films really takes the biscuit.

Dark_One79

10-16-2002, 10:07 PM

Wow.

I really respect what these women have to say. But I'd respect it even more if they said it after bobbing up and down on my crotch for half an hour.

Sorry if I offended any normal females. Believe me, I wasn't trying to generalize my comments to them as well. Just those freaks that insult me with useless propaganda like that article.

agustinaldo

10-19-2002, 11:56 AM

I HATE extreme,hardcore feminists!

pedro

10-19-2002, 09:48 PM

I'd love to show these women a TROMA film....

And women's "forced" roles in horror films??? What is that supposed to mean? It's true i haven't read the article, but what do they think... That the sexist racist scriptwriter decided that to avoid social uproar he had to put in at least a few female characters. C'mon, women play stronger roles than men in what could be most horror movies from the 80's & 90's (or a large proportion). I never actually considered reading the article, but i think i get the gist.

Also does the fact that a disabled person gets killed in the TCM mean that the writers were making a statement about their hatred for those with physical and mental disabilities??? Well, that's how i interpreted it.....:rolleyes: :p

Michael_myers

10-20-2002, 01:09 AM

that was delightful wasn't it? Thse people are real. My grandmother basically hates horror, and won't agree that PSYCHO is a internationally loved cult classic, won't even watch a film intended not to be A friday the 13th flick. Like Silence of the Lambs. Texas Chainsaw massacre was not viuolence against women, in fact, more men die in the film than women, 4 men are killed, compared to 1 women, which is unusual, and women are only displayed as victims, because they are seen as more passive. But the charicatures of Laurie Strode, Marion Crane, and Sally Hardesty are some of the strongest women characters on film. The other two dressed to kill and whatever, I haven't seen. Women are so touchy, and I read the part about black people, and I thoguht "are these people psychos" the difference between black discrimination, and women characters is different. Women have rights, can vote, can work, and are no longer ridiculously stereotyped. Not to seeem all pansy like, but does anyone remember the Song of the South film? If you did, here about the controversy please say something. Dispicable bitches

Dark_One79

10-20-2002, 05:28 PM

I really don't know what is stuck up these chicks asses, but whatever it is needs to be removed. I am so sick and tired of hearing all the bashing of this and that, coming from every direction. I am so tired of all this P.C. garbage.

Political correctness kills individual thought. Or at least that is how I feel about it.

These women... Grrr.... I could go on and on... but then I would be lowering myself to their level. I am going to refuse, or at least try to refuse, being stereotypical. I won't "label" a group, as they have chosen to do.

I know all women aren't like that. In fact, we have plenty of them right here on our board. Thank God for you ladies. Just remember, Dark_One79 loves you all.

Let's face it, we've all met women who are as dumb as a box of rocks, and twice as ugly. But I've met plenty of guys just the same. Just a plain ol' waste o' space.

Worthlessness and stupidity aren't gender specific.

Thank God most of us are a little more openminded than them.

So, even though many of us are bashing women in this thread, let's take a moment to remind the ladies that even though we may feel the need to insult these women with a degrading comment or two, we certainly respect the fine (mentally & physically) women, of which there are many.

The Claw

10-20-2002, 06:13 PM

I like people. just not stupid people (and yes there are alot of them) and these women fall into the stupid pile along with many many other people.

Jason Voorhees

10-21-2002, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Dark_One79
I am so tired of all this P.C. garbage.

Political correctness kills individial thought. Or at least that is how I feel about it.

I'm with you on that one...

So, even though many of us are bashing women in this thread, let's take a moment to remind the ladies that even though we may feel the need to insult these women with a degrading comment or two, we certainly respect the fine (mentally & physically) women, of which there are many.

I agree. Women are our companions, as we are theirs. I think we define each other. I think it takes both of us to not only create life, but to nurture it as well.

Which is why I find the concept of complete separatism so ridiculous. I honestly can't understand how some people could be so delusional and hateful as to want such a thing.

BoyScoutKevin

10-22-2002, 01:41 PM

One can take a horror movie out of context, and prove just about anything one wants. This is my reply
(1) There are some feminists who like horror. Especially, those that are bisexual and lesbian. That is not saying that all feminists are bisexual or lesbian, but, for those who are, the horror film gave some of them their first look at a strong, female character who was something other than heterosexual. From Countess Marya Zaleska (Gloria Holden) in "Dracula's Daughter" to the lesbians in "Blood and Roses," "Lust for a Vampire," and "Vampire Lovers" to Lady Sylvia Marsh (Amanda Donohoe) in "Lair of the White Worm."
(2) Instead of desensitivizing men to violence against women, some horror films sensitivize men to violence against women. At least one study, and don't ask me, which one, as I don't remember, found that some audiences for slasher films, which are usually male, identified not with the slasher, which is usually male, but, with his victim, which is usually female
(3) The writer of the article is guilty of the same thing that she accuses men of being. That is, object specific. I do know, that when violence is directed against children in horror films, it is directed more against boys then girls. Without mentioning this in the article, it is as if the writer is saying that violence against females in horror films is bad, but, violence against males in horror films is good. No matter what the age of the male victim.

Cyclonus

04-24-2003, 12:39 AM

This has been such an interesting discussion, I'd love to see the newer schmoes contribute here--so I'm gonna bump this thing up. :)

Juice

04-24-2003, 10:26 AM

The fact that they complain about violence against women in several horrormovies, is just a proof of their stupidity. I mean, it's no violence against women, it's violence against PEOPLE. They kill the men too! Okay, they get the girls a little harder, but does that matter? I mean, if a mouse is killed in a movie, should why expect a bunch of animal lovers complaining?
The people who made that site are pretty dumb and, ironicly, very sexist.

Shatter

04-24-2003, 11:14 AM

After reading the last few posts, I didn't even feel like going to their site. Some people just take things way to seriously.

Now I'm going to get a little off-subject here but doesn't anyone else think that we need to have a funeral for the words "extreme" and "hardcore"? Overuse has killed them.

travis

04-24-2003, 11:17 AM

The boardgame mouse trap promotes children to build incredibly complicated machines to wrongfully imprison mice of enthnic backgrounds. The mice are yellow, red, blue and green in color, never is the evil white mouse imprisoned. such an injustice. :mad:

their argument doesnt make any more sense than that :rolleyes:

travis

04-24-2003, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by Shatter
Now I'm going to get a little off-subject here but doesn't anyone else think that we need to have a funeral for the words "extreme" and "hardcore"? Overuse has killed them.

Especially when you have laundry detergent claiming "extreme stain-fighting power" and the like.

Sugar Magnolia

04-24-2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
Also, more men died in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre than women.

How very nostalgic, that's only my third post here ever. Thanks for bringin' back memories Cyclonus...:)

Gretchen_Ross

04-24-2003, 08:12 PM

goodness, goodness, what to say...

well, i generally dislike people who are extremely militant and unwavering in their opinions. i think women like the one who wrote this letter give feminists a bad name. i mean, i consider myself to be a feminist. if anyone actually goes back and looks at what feminism is actually founded on, it's the ideal that men and women are equal and should be treated accordingly - that's it. as usual in the human race, some people just take things way too far.

on a side note, i've never considered horror to biased against women because as just as many, if not more, men take dirt naps in horror movies and film in general. hey, as long as the slaughter is equal-opportunity, i'm cool with it.

Requiem-for-a-Dream

04-25-2003, 12:14 AM

Jesus Tapdancing Christ!

I understand why women would feel threatened and offended by the way men have treated them throughout history but that was ridiculous.

I don't belive in profit over the bodies of women, I don't believe in pornography and I don't believe in sexual abuse. But to say that it's all our fault is fucking stupid.

What do they expect from men? What do they expect from us besides the impossible. This women who writes these paragraphs that condemn every man because of other's behaviour has no understanding of the concept of equality.

A women being raped is a horrible tragedy but what can the police officers do to prevent these situations? It's like pointing the finger at all men and saying; You are the cause of all murder!

The police can only do a certain amount of protection. I don't think that all men want to exploit women for profit or want them all raped. Of course there are some who enjoy this but what about the one's who dissaprove of the acts? What about all the other crimes? Are we supposed to blamed every time a poor women is taken advantage of? No, the person who did it should be blamed.

In the article they mention the differences between African American men who were lynched and they compare it to the amount of women who were raped. Yes, horrible things have happened and still happened but for Christ's sake stop blaming every man on the face of the earth.

So much slime, so little time. What a nice thing to say and to think, we're being judged.

Matt

thedarklamb

04-25-2003, 12:14 AM

I think maybe they didn't finish watching TCM.....

+++++Spoilers+++++

Sally Got Away, how's that for a strong female role model. Sally rules!

Requiem-for-a-Dream

04-25-2003, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by thedarklamb
I think maybe they didn't finish watching TCM.....

+++++Spoilers+++++

Sally Got Away, how's that for a strong female role model. Sally rules!

Exactly, just because there were women killed in the film, does that make it sexist? What about the men? They were killed just as inhumanely. I think even more so in certain scenes. I think TCM is a very gender blind film, there isn't any nudity what so ever. The exploitation aspects came from the murders that weren't even shown!

Matt

thedarklamb

04-25-2003, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by Requiem-for-a-Dream
Exactly, just because there were women killed in the film, does that make it sexist? What about the men? They were killed just as inhumanely. I think even more so in certain scenes. I think TCM is a very gender blind film, there isn't any nudity what so ever. The exploitation aspects came from the murders that weren't even shown!

Matt

Yep, I agree..I think because the film is so intense, claustrophobic and overwhelming, they don't seem to comprehend what they are actually seeing. It's like someone who already has their mind made up about a film just because it's called a horror film. TCM is more of a character study. We imagine what Leatherface is doing to his victims and the violence that surrounds him and his family and people take it to the extreme. Gore....Nudity.....like you said TCM has none of that.

Requiem-for-a-Dream

04-25-2003, 03:05 AM

If it was like Ilsa or something, I could understand why they would be upset but TCM? Come on! They were reaching with that one.

Matt

electriclite

04-25-2003, 05:00 AM

In the book, Celluloid Mavericks, I read a quote that Stephen King said about the importance of the horror genre in film and literature, and I'm gonna try and write it here.

Think of it like this. Imagine your conscious mind and your subconscious mind being seperated by a floor, and the only connection the two have is a trap door. Underneath that trap door is a dark river filled with ravenous crocodiles (subconscious), and every so often our conscious mind has to open that trap door and throw down some raw meat (horror) for the crocodiles in order to keep them down there and not up here with us.

In other words, I'd rather have the violence towards women be in fictitious films then in real life. The fiction helps to keep the violence from happening more often in reality.

Shatter

04-25-2003, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by thedarklamb
I think maybe they didn't finish watching TCM.....
Sally Got Away, how's that for a strong female role model. Sally rules!

This may contain spoilers...

As darklamb said, in Texas Chainsaw Massacre Sally gets away, and how many times have we seen strong female characters in horror movies?

A Nightmare On Elm Street
Nancy Thompson is the one who stops Freddy after her friends are killed by him, especially her boyfriend.

In ANOES 2, it's Lisa who pulls Jesse through in his struggle with Freddy, he couldn't do it himself.

ANOES 3, Nancy is eventually killed by Freddy, but who steps up to the plate? Kristen Parker.

ANOES4 Kristen is killed, but by the end of the film, Alice is the one who defeats Freddy, and she does it again in ANOES 5. With the help of Amanda Krueger's spirit.

Freddy's own daughter does him in, Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare.

And last but not least Heather Langenkamp plays the role of Nancy one more time and finishes Freddy once and for all (until Freddy v.s Jason of course)

Hey, I could keep going... the Friday The 13th series, Halloween, Aliens... but I'll stop here, don't want to rant or anything. :cool:

the night watchman

04-25-2003, 11:11 AM

David Cronenberg once said (and I paraphrase), “Censors do what only psychotics do: they mistake fantasy for reality.” Does “Texas Chain Saw Massacre” really glorify violence against women, as Ms. Crane insists? Does she really not comprehend that the intent of the murder and brutality on screen (simulated murder and brutality, I suppose it must be stated for any censors or psychotics reading) was to shock and ... horrify? What does this misinterpretation say about Ms. Craft’s opinion of men that she would expect us to identify with Leatherface and the rest of the family? I mean, sure, Leatherface is a cool horror movie icon, but so are the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Hannibal Lector, and the shark from Jaws. If I had a poster of “Jaws” on my wall, does that mean that I imagine myself as the toothsome predator when I watch the movie?

Now, I’ll fully admit that women are more commonly the victim, or at least the gender menaced more often in a horror movie than men. I’ll further admit that the reason behind this is actually kind of sexist, i.e., because women are usually regarded as more vulnerable, and men are usually expected to be able to defend themselves. However, in complete opposition to Ms. Crane’s notion that horror movies, like TCM “glorify” violence against women, horror filmmakers usually employ women as the victim or “menacee,” if you will, because they know women are more like to gain faster and greater audience sympathy then male victims. So, in other words, a woman in jeopardy evokes more concern from the audience, which is the exact opposit of the rationale that it provokes the male members toward misogynistic desires.

Cyclonus

04-25-2003, 03:29 PM

These people really hate the ACLU and the PETA. This is a bit much, even for organizations with extreme views. They say and do these things to stir up trouble, to put themselves in the public eye--but most people will simply not be willing to swallow their bizzare ideas. :eek:

http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/PETA/peta.html

http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/Porn/index.html

the night watchman

04-25-2003, 04:27 PM

Yeah, just like the Religious Right, Nikki Craft and her cohorts won't be happy until you live your life according to their perscription.

thedarklamb

04-25-2003, 09:17 PM

Wow, just looking at the rest of their rants...looks like they got alot of free time on their hands....or their just really pissed off people.

bowieee

04-25-2003, 10:08 PM

I feel sick.

Yeah as a horror fan I want to keep the female down in society thats it.......

:rolleyes:

Cyclonus

04-29-2003, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by Jason Voorhees
Anyone who is ''extreme, or hardcore'' about any morally ambiguous issue is wrong, in my opinion. There are two sides to every issue; If you can't even deign to consider the other side, then you're wrong (again, just my opinion). I'm not saying that having a firm, solid opinion is wrong, rather that, not even acknowledging or respecting the other side of any morally equivocal issue is ridiculous. I have strong opinions. I can also understand opposing viewpoints, something these types ostensibly have difficulty with.

I can think of at least one person I've meet who'd disagree with you. A few years ago I had a professor who held extreme left-wing views, and he said he doesn't believe there are two sides to every story, nor does he think that we should take the in-between route when it comes to touchy issues. He is a radical feminist as well so I suspect he feels the same way about porn. It's one thing if you're talking about something like the Holocaust, but there are many other issues (such as the matter at hand) that are not so cut-and-dried.

Anyone notice that people on the far left hold very "absolutionist" views? They like to impose their ideas on others just as much as those on the far right do. I can't stand extremist agendas of any kind.

I admit I find hardcore pornography distasteful myself, but I would never actively prevent people from reading or viewing it if they so desire. What they do is none of my business, and as it is I already have enough to worry about in my life.

ERIN_LoJ

04-30-2003, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by electriclite

Think of it like this. Imagine your conscious mind and your subconscious mind being seperated by a floor, and the only connection the two have is a trap door. Underneath that trap door is a dark river filled with ravenous crocodiles (subconscious), and every so often our conscious mind has to open that trap door and throw down some raw meat (horror) for the crocodiles in order to keep them down there and not up here with us.

So I am not the only person who finds my subsconcious really "dark" orientated? :D

Or then again, maybe it is just me :eek:

ERIN_LoJ

04-30-2003, 01:26 AM

LMFAO at the Peta article!

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/blackeye/ugone2far.gif

And why the hell are so many people finding women as victims in porn? A lot of women love hardcore porn or soft porn, and women as well as the men choose to be in it. Some women like using sex as power as well - this makes the people that watch them or interact with them the users/manipulators/bigots?

Jason Voorhees

04-30-2003, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by Cyclonus
I can think of at least one person I've meet who'd disagree with you. A few years ago I had a professor who held extreme left-wing views, and he said he doesn't believe there are two sides to every story, nor does he think that we should take the in-between route when it comes to touchy issues. He is a radical feminist as well so I suspect he feels the same way about porn. It's one thing if you're talking about something like the Holocaust, but there are many other issues (such as the matter at hand) that are not so cut-and-dried.

Anyone notice that people on the far left hold very "absolutionist" views? They like to impose their ideas on others just as much as those on the far right do. I can't stand extremist agendas of any kind.

I admit I find hardcore pornography distasteful myself, but I would never actively prevent people from reading or viewing it if they so desire. What they do is none of my business, and as it is I already have enough to worry about in my life.

I probably shouldn't have used the phrase "every issue" in that post. As you said, some things are cut-and-dried. Strangely enough, I knew this when I wrote that, which is why I used the phrases "morally ambiguous," and "morally equivocal." I guess my proofreading just isn't all that :).

As for taking the middle road...well, that wasn't necessarily what I was trying to say (I'm not insinuating that you were insinuating that I was saying that, though...yeesh, that's a confusing sentence...). I was basically saying that if you ignore (or ridicule) valid criticisms of your stance for the sole reason that they differ from yours (on issues that aren't cut-and-dried), then you're most likely wrong...Either that or you probably haven't given much (if any) rational thought to the issue at hand.

The feminists' diatribes, for example. Utterly irrational to the point of being laughable.

I should also note that I fully agree with your last two paragraphs. Although I consider myself a lefty, I try to view each individual issue from an objective standpoint, and not a "leftist" or "rightist" one