Solaris-Thoughts and Reviews- [Archive] - Movie Fan Central Discussion Forums

The Professional

11-20-2002, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by chrisboo
....but they went down on strikes.

Saw this last night at a special screening. Beautiful movie. Some really great directing. Largely boring.

This film would have been amazing if you gave a shit about anything going on in it. It took FOREVER for it to get ANYWHERE, and then really dragged... At least 10% of the theater walked out before it was done. Some old guy behind me was snoring so loud I think he covered my giggling at him.

This movie wanted to be 2001 so bad it could taste it. If this was 35 years ago Solaris would probably be a classic. At least 2001 had a good score to go along with it.

5/10, and that's only because of the direction.

you do realize that this is a remake of a russian movie, and that the originals purpose was to show up 2001. and i think it did. has a very deliberate pace but is worth it. looking forward to seeing this version.

chrisboo

11-20-2002, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by The Professional
you do realize that this is a remake of a russian movie, and that the originals purpose was to show up 2001. and i think it did. has a very deliberate pace but is worth it. looking forward to seeing this version.

I understood going in that it was a remake of something. Had no idea about the story or anything else, though. If someone is going strictly to admire this work for how much better is than its predecessor, than perhaps they'll be very happy.

From someone who never saw (or cares to see) the original, this movie was tiring.

2001 was great because there was real suspense. It had never been done before. The effects were REALLY hard to pull off. The story was about the evolution of man and machine and where it might lead. And it left a LOT up to you.

Solaris had nothing but cool pictures. Everything else was weak. Unless you like George Clooney's butt. But the chick I went with said even that was flabby. :-) They tried really hard to make this about what makes us human. I thought the 15 minutes of dialogue didn't get me there and contained oodles of plot holes. Plus, it wraps up all neat at the end.

Not even close....IMHO.

Lazy Boy

11-20-2002, 07:56 PM

I loved the original, thougt it was a great counterpart to 2001: A Space Odyssey. If this version is half as good as Tarkovsky's opus (as well as Kubrick's), then we're in good shape for the year 2002. :)

Moviefan1234

11-21-2002, 06:45 PM

The problem is that people are going to go see this with thoughts of a sci-fi action movie. From what I've heard the movie is more of a mystery/romance in a space station, so people won't like it because they aren't expecting what they should be expecting. Hopefully more people will understand what to expect and like it in the process.

dellamorte dellamore

11-22-2002, 08:52 AM

I knopw i always seem to have something negative to say, but honestly this looks terrible. Clooney does not have the depth to pull off a tortured soul( remember Batman? ) ,and Soderbergh apears to not have fully grasped the spirit behind the original.

I have no problems with remakes, sometimes they work to perfection (NOTLD, The Thing), but i don't6 have any hope for this one at all.

It's seems as though they decidewd to make it a love story in space, the original was much deeper than that, but what do you expect from the land of superficiality?

Mike

11-23-2002, 10:39 PM

The cinematography looks good, it will probably be one of the best things about the movie. I will see it, but I'll just wait and rent it, it's not something I want to see in theaters.

It should open OK at the Box Office (maybe 15-17 Million, probably closer to 15 Million though) but fall fairly fast. For one, it looks weird so I don't see it being too big with mainstream audiences, the only reason it will do ok is because of the names attached, mainly George Clooney. Plus, supposedly the ending leaves you with no answers so you still don't know what the hell went on and that will not help it at all. I think a lot of mainstream audiences won't really like it, but it will have a certain following, mainly big movie buffs or mindfuck fans... I see a finish of 40-50 Million tops...

Moviefan1234

11-26-2002, 04:26 PM

Well so far most of the reviews I've seen have been very positive. I am getting hyped for this one more and more. :)

dh1989

11-26-2002, 04:32 PM

Tommorow's the day! I will be seeing this tommorow night for sure. I am really excited, I for one cannot resist the lure of 1 hour and 40 minutes, or so, of awesome sci-fi/drama! BTW, here are some more cool Solaris photos....

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/solaris/george_clooney/solaris3.jpg

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/solaris/_group_photos/george_clooney3.jpg

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/solaris/george_clooney/solaris2.jpg

And the genius behind this film, director/writer/producer Steven Soderbergh...

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/solaris/steven_soderbergh/solaris.jpg

bluegopher

11-26-2002, 04:36 PM

My review is below:

A psychologist goes on a space shuttle to investigate strange occurrences and soon finds himself having visions of his assumed dead wife. Is she really back or is the psychologist losing his mind? Solaris stars George Clooney, Natascha McElhone (Fear Dot Com), Jeremy Davies, and Viola Davis and is directed by Steven Soderbergh and produced by James Cameron.

George Clooney rocketed to stardom with the hit television medical drama ER after toiling in Hollywood for fifteen years. Since his first starring role in a feature film with From Dusk Till Dawn, the offbeat Quentin Tarantino vampire schlock, Clooney has relatively quickly become a box office draw in such varied fare as O Brother, Where Art Thou and Ocean’s Eleven. Now he tests his medal as an audience draw with a genre mixing film that isn’t usually the type of film that pleases a large audience because it bears resemblance to Mulholland Dr., Femme Fatale, and Memento and all three of those films didn’t do so well at the box office.

Science fiction films are more commonplace nowadays than ever before with some of them becoming box office hits (Minority Report) and others becoming box office duds (Impostor). Solaris, a remake of an epic Russian film, is not really a science fiction film as it is a mind-bending romantic drama that utilizes the conventions of the science fiction genre to help weave its complex story of lost love and the supernatural.
The acting is, not surprisingly, solid. Clooney resonates every line with heartfelt and true emotion. McElhone is also very good as the mysterious woman and the supporting performances are also well done.

Direction by Soderbergh is done well enough as he once again probes a common theme of his, relationships as that is really what the film is all about. The film also aptly provides some tense scenes that are creepy in the way in which surprises are slowly revealed. Unfortunately, Soderbergh decided to throw some strange plot contrivances into the mix to make the film almost appear to be a David Lynch film set in space. David Lynch in Space could be an alternate title for the bulk of Solaris. What is it lately with films bearing a resemblance to Mulholland Dr.? After Femme Fatale and now Solaris, it is obvious that Mulholland Dr. had a great effect on Hollywood filmmakers. The film also appears to have been severely edited down to less than ninety minutes of length or is intentionally vague in its revealing of explanation (or lack thereof).

Overall, Solaris is a beautifully filmed romantic mystery that leaves one too many questions unanswered to be a completely satisfying cinematic experience despite being well acted all around by a first rate cast.

81 out of 100.

Mike

11-26-2002, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by dh1989
I am really excited, I for one cannot resist the lure of 2 hours and 47 minutes minutes of awesome sci-fi/drama!

Actually, I hate to burst your bubble but it's only 1 hour and 30-40 Minutes long... It's kind of funny too because it's one of those movies you'd expect to be longer, at least 2 hours long. Oh well, this way the people that find it boring won't have to sit for too terribly long... I think it seems like a movie that would be more enjoyable on video, I know I'm waiting to rent the DVD...

dh1989

11-26-2002, 04:55 PM

Really? My source was Yahoo! Movies, it must be a mistake. Maybe the real running time is 1 hour and 47 minutes, and they mixed the "1" up for a "2". Mistakes happen....:)

Mike

11-26-2002, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by dh1989
Really? My source was Yahoo! Movies, it must be a mistake. Maybe the real running time is 1 hour and 47 minutes, and they mixed the "1" up for a "2". Mistakes happen....:)

Yeah, that's probably what happened. Man, 2 hours and 47 minutes would be pretty long for a romantic sc-fi drama :)...

Fergus

11-26-2002, 05:58 PM

Actually guys, 2 hours and 47 minutes IS the running time for Tarkovsky's original SOLARIS. That could be the reason for the mix-up. Though, I'm a little surprised that the film is so short, what happened to that other hour of footage? Director's Cut? Maybe? And in regards to the past two reviews I read for Soderbergh's "Solaris," Joblo's and bluegopher's. The original left questions unanswered even though it was apparent what the answer's were, to me. Could this be the case with the new Solaris? Or did they leave you with nothing to attempt to figure out? I should see it sometime this weekend, looks great, but with the short run time........eh, nevermind.

rushmore beauty

11-26-2002, 10:28 PM

Solaris.

Starring: George Clooney, Jeremy Davies.
Written for the Screen and Directed by Steven Soderberg (Traffic).
Rating: 9/10.

Review: Slooooow, yet amazing, this is one of the best (if not the best) movie so far in 2002. It really is a good movie. I got to go to the sneak peek last night and I can't remember the last time I saw people actually getting up and leaving during the movie. I was just shocked to hear what people were saying when the movie was over (shit like "not even George Cloney's ass can save that movie"). I don't understand any of that because it was such a beautifully filmed movie with the most realistic version of a futuristic Earth (about 50 years into the future, maybe even shorter). I was just blown away by everything in this movie...except the running time.

I am not going to tell anything about the plot. Watch the internet trailer on apple.com and that'll be good enough. Basically, it's about what would you do if you had a second shot at life (well, maybe not life).

George Clooney has never really given a real performance before. Batman and Robin (4/10), From Dusk Till Dawn (5/10), The Perfect Storm (6/10), Three Kings (7/10); he never seems to be different. O Brother Where Art Thou? (7/10) was his real acting breakthrough. He showed us he can actually play different characters and now in Solaris, he just shows us how much talent he had locked away for all of his acting years. He gives the best male performance so far in 2002 and he can hold your attention without speaking for like 15 minutes (which he does). Everyone else in th cast (which was like 4 people) was kick-ass too, but the stand-out was Jeremy Davies, who was awesome and creepy, in a subtle sort of way. Solid performances.

Steven Soderberg fills this movie with fantastic images of a near future that is waaaay more realistic than that presented in A.I. (9/10), Minority Report (8/10) and Blade Runner (8/10). It is very similar to the future shown in Gattaca (8/10) and man, it is just glorious. I will be seeing this movie again. Anyways, the ship it takes place on is realistic, cold and very small. Solaris is very cool and the effects that created Solari were flawless. There didn't seem to ba a lot of effects, but that's what I thought the first time I saw The Matrix (9/10), which was only because they were so good I didn't notice many of them. Solaris is packed with amazing images of space and thar sort of thing and it looked real. Oh yeah, my complaint about the running time. It could have been longer, and I mean like an hour even. I just couldn't get enough of the bizarre events and whatnot. Minor spiler - this movie has hardly any talking. If it's dialogue you're into, go rent Chasing Amy (9/10) and call me in the morning.

Overall, one of the best films of the year. I highly recommend you go and see this film, especially if you liked 2001: ASO (8/10). This is a better sci-fi film that Minority Report, but they are different types of sci-fi too. This is a hard film to review because there is so much I want to say, but I don't want to give anything away. Go see this movie. I almost forgot, this is the best mind fuck of the past few years.

dh1989

11-27-2002, 07:40 PM

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/solaris/george_clooney/solaris.jpg

Rating: 9/10

This film will receive a split reaction. If a group of 80 people see this film, I predict 40 will come out saying words like genius, interesting, what is your theory?, great acting, etc. and another 40 will say stupid, boring, slow, etc.. As for me, I do not fall in the latter category. Solaris is an amazing cinematic experience. This movie is category defying. First, don't expect anything! If you want a big explosion filled ray gun blast 'em up sci-fi, just don't go see this, you will not like it. This movie is a spooky drama. Its about love, loss, remembering the dead, and such. While those themes may seem simple, this film will wow you on how deep they can be explored and twisted. Steven Soderbergh is an artist, plain and simple. He does not use point-and-shoot, he crafts this film with shadows, darkness, weird camera angles, etc. and it works beautifully. The movie is mysterious. It does not want you to walk out knowing everything, it wants you to THINK, which is something absent from recent theatrical films. George Clooney is amazing in this film. It is very hard to explain how great he is. This performance has depth. He captures the essence of fear, doubt, depression, and love. He does not turn in your average Hollywood performance, he is real, in an unreal situation. He brings a sense of saneness to a place that will make you go insane. Natascha McElhone is also excellent. Her character is a question mark. She is one part of the complex mystery and Natascha pulls it off masterfully. She is mysterious. She makes you want to know more. Jeremy Davies is also a part of the mystery. He is funny, but he seems fake in a way. He plays his character so perfectly, you don't trust him and you trust him. Viola Davis is the black and white character. She seems to grasp everything and always seems to know the right thing to do. That is pretty much it for performances that last for over ten minutes. This movie is not bogged down with tons of characters because they are just tools, albeit very interesting tools, for the immense story. The score in this film is also an A+ job. It is mysterious and stark. In fact, the same could be said for the excellent set designs. And for once, a director knows how to use special effects. In this film, they are part of the story. They are not here to wow you and they are not used in an over-the-top fashion. Beautiful job. The thing that is responsible, on the most part, for this film's wonderful realization is the excellent story. This movie is twisty, intriguing, and odd. It is one of the best stories this year. I cannot wait until you all have seen this because I look forward to some great discussions like we had for Mulholland Drive and other mind-benders. I have a theory, but I will not say it until we can all discuss it here. Overall, Solaris is an amazing ride and you should either love it or hate it. I hope you all love it, like I did. Have a great time at the theatre and have a great time thinking about this one. As for my final message to the film, itself: See you at the Oscars!

darkface

11-27-2002, 08:01 PM

9/10

I loved this film. The whole atmosphere, the acting, writing, cinematography everything was just sweet. The mood was well done. I'll be seeing this one again, just to see if i missed things.

If you like 2001: A space oddysey. Or just love movies you should see this. Any movie lover should enjoy this film.

darkface

11-27-2002, 08:10 PM

Now to the spoilers...

(spoilers obviously)

this is what i got so far. Once you visit Solaris, it tests you. Tries to see how your mind works. And what's important to you. Once it figures that out, then if you accept it's proposal, then it puts you into another dimension. A dimension of a second chance. Like heaven i guess. Since his cut didn't really even get cut, i guess that means he's dead. And in another world. IDK this was really hard, but i thought i might put some words up to see what your guy'z reactions are.
I have much more to say, and will have much more, but it's only been like 30 min since i got out of the movie. give it time i guess.

-end spoiler

please! discuss your thoughts about it because the more minds we get involved the better our explainations will be.

dh1989

11-27-2002, 08:21 PM

SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! Lie Below.....

I think Chris killed himself that night on the ship when he reached for the pills. The planet Solaris is really heaven and the rest of the film, after him reaching for the pills, was just a way for him to enter. When the ship was going down, I believe this was him entering heaven and on heaven he became a spirit, like his wife. And he says

Am I Dead?

She replies: We don't have to think like that anymore.

This, in my opinion means that they are spirits and the notion of life and death is no longer important.

END OD SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!

darkface

11-27-2002, 08:26 PM

Spoilers!!!

dh1989,

your explaination makes more sense definatly. I like that whole idea of how Solaris is heaven. And now that i recall, i remember those red pills right?

Didn't his wife take pills before she died? I remember her holding the blue ones. But thought those were just like advil. Maybe red is like suicide pills. And that's what he took that night on the ship when he was sweating real hard. Hmmm next time i watch it i'll have to pay extra close attention to that scene. hell the whole MOVIE!

end spoiler

dh1989

11-27-2002, 08:30 PM

SPOILERS

Yes the pills were red/orange-y. They were the ones in the scene where Clooney is sweating an awful lot and having nightmares. I am glad you liked my theory, yours was great! I also plan to see it again, to understand more and just to see the genius again! :)

END OF SPOILERS

dh1989

11-27-2002, 08:31 PM

SPOILERS

I knew there was going to be a religous-side of the film because of that dinner discussion flashback about believing in god and then they cut to the tub scene where Rayaa(sp?) says "getting away from those f*cking people".

END OF SPOILERS

darkface

11-27-2002, 08:49 PM

spoilers.....again...

But thx for mentioning about that dinner scene. I forgot about that too. good catch.

Now that one dude, (can't think of his name) with the beard/hand gestures guy, was that his clone person the whole time? And the real guy was dead in that ceiling? or is it vice-versa.
O-wait, now that i'm thinking about it, remember they can resurrect. Which means that guy in the ceiling is dead, which means he's actually a human. hmmmm wow.... what a great movie! I haven't thought this much about a movie since Donnie Darko!

p.s. (edit) He probably over dosed on those pills. Because if i remember right he took a lot that night, and when his wife killed herself she tried getting those pills, but she couldn't get it openend or something, so she broke it over her sink, and most likely had more than one pill.

end spoilers-

dh1989

11-27-2002, 10:36 PM

I am suprised there are not more reviews already. I thought this film would have a lot of schmoes seeing it opening day. I hope there are more reviews over the course of the last two days of the week and the weekend.

ANTBond007

11-27-2002, 10:51 PM

I'm seeing it as soon as I get $6. It looks VERY interesting.

dh1989

11-27-2002, 11:30 PM

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/solaris/natascha_mcelhone/solaris.jpg
Here is a list of top critics, their Solaris grades, and excerpts from their respective reviews, from Yahoo! Movies!......

Chicago Sun-Times
Roger Ebert "...evokes one of the rarest of movie emotions, ironic regret." A-

Chicago Tribune
Michael Wilmington "It's a lovely, eerie film that casts an odd, rapt spell." B

E! Online "Finely crafted and executed..." B+

Entertainment Weekly
Owen Gleiberman "Snail-paced, suavely shot, and steeped in postmodern melancholy..." C

filmcritic.com
Christopher Null "...I'd rather have been watching the original film." C

Hollywood Reporter
David Hunter "George Clooney delivers one of his best performances..." B

Los Angeles Times
Kenneth Turan "...accomplishes many if not quite all of its aims..." B

New York Post
Jonathan Foreman "...haunting but slow-moving..." B

New York Times
Stephen Holden "...a tricky balancing act that doesn't quite come off." B-

People "...easier to admire than embrace." B-

ReelViews
James Berardinelli "...a compelling cinematic experience..." B

Rolling Stone
Peter Travers "Solaris is a mind-bender in the best sense of the word..." A-

San Francisco Chronicle
Mick LaSalle "...a ponderous and dreadful film..." D+

Seattle Post-Intelligencer
William Arnold "...more discerning moviegoers will find it an absorbing, challenging, mostly well-acted change-of-pace space thriller." B+

USA Today
Claudia Puig "Solaris is science fiction drama for those who don't necessarily like science fiction." B

I must say I think many critics are underrating this film. Ebert came the closest. It is A+ work....

meltingman

11-28-2002, 12:15 AM

What an incredible film. I couldn't believe how great it was.

Possible spoilers:

I'm not sure if I agree that Solaris is heaven, but you could be right. I thought Solaris was a living (& thinking) alien planet in which the entire planet is an organism. The planet or it's atmosphere perhaps is of a higher intelligence than the human species and thus can and does control the thoughts of anyone who is within its confined space. I saw Solaris as a type of mental vampire that sucks the thoughts and emotions out of the humans and afterward hold it captive either dead or alive, it really doesn't matter, since no one can escape its power.

Thoughtprovoking to say the least. I give it a 9 1/2 and would have gave it a perfect 10 if the ending would have been a bit more powerful for my tastes. Excellent photography and interesting visions of the future. I always liked George Clooney and I don't think he disappoints in this psychological/sci fi flim. Other actors were very good with excellent direction. I'm in agreement that most will either love or hate this wonderful film.

dh1989

11-28-2002, 12:34 AM

***SPOILERS BELOW!***

Did anyone else think the rising-from-the dead scene was very creepy. When her body started covulsing, it was freaky. Actually, if I had to what part of the film is the most horror/sci-fi like its the coming back to life sequence and the burns from drinking liquid oxygen(freaky stuff in itself, I wish the film could've elaborated on it a bit more). Very creepy shite!

***END OF SPOILERS!***

sleekproductions

11-28-2002, 12:35 AM

Solaris is a slow movie. But it is good slow. Slow in a way that gives you plenty of time to digest, and think about the scene that you have just scene. Because let me tell you... there is a lot to think about with this movie. And this is probably the best part of the movie. Hollywood studios need to realize that if it is done well, people don't mind thinking in movies. And in my opinion, this is done well.
First off, the story is very nice. I love the whole idea of second chances and doing things over if you could. It is a popular theme in movies, but it is presented very well here. George Clooney is also very good here. He gives one of the best performances of his career (and his ass ain't bad either). The other actors in this film are very good. Jeremy Davies gives one of the best supporting male performances of the year.
The reason why this movie worked so nicely, is definately because of Steven Soderbergh. His script (or lack there of in certain scenes), his direction, and his cinematogrphy are all brilliant; and this just proves that he is easily one of the best, and most versatile directors around today. He handles is projects with care and precision, and hasn't made a bad movie yet.
In the end, this is a very good movie that gives you a lot to think about. It can be precevied many ways, and that is what is so good. It is also great eye candy (in more ways than you may think.)
One of the more intelligent movies of the year.

9/10

flowrchild

11-28-2002, 01:44 AM

Solaris: 8/10

I just got back from seeing this movie, and the more I think about it, the more I like it. It is a very intriguing haunting movie, very unlike anything I have seen in a long time. It does have its flaws but the movie itself was so spellbinding that it's easy to overlook them. I think this is Soderbergh's best movie since "Out of sight" and the performances were phenomenal.

I want to see it again to see if I can pick up on more things I missed the first time around. This is definitely going to be a love it or hate it movie. Those who hated 2001 will probably not be a fan of this one either, but for everyone else I recommend it.

dellamorte dellamore

11-28-2002, 07:22 AM

If you even remotely enjoyed this one, you have to see the original, it has many more layers than this silly love will set you free undercurrent of this one.

Plus this remake was created in a sheltered Hollywood environment with coddled stars and golden boy directors/producers. The original was made in a harsh, oppressive political environment, an amazing feat in itself, it's intellectually and cinematically inspiring.

I guess these are SPOILERS

Of course it doesn't look as good (i'm not entirely convinced of that ), but it does capture the intense seperation anxiety of a lost soul. Not seperation from a long lost love, but seperation from the progenitor of his very existence.

I know i didn't see it, but from reading these posts my aasumptions seemed to be correct, the only way he can move on to the next level of consciousness was to redeem himself by assuaging his guilt. The guilt he felt by not doing enough to save his psychotic ex girlfriend or wife or whatever.

I think Solaris was meant to signify Hell, a horrific world where internal conflict, guilt, longing, depression, regret, and spiritual imprisonment are experienced for eternity.

daredevil0214

11-28-2002, 09:22 AM

how morbid. lol.

i saw this movie yesterday. i had to think a little before posting a review though.

7/10

although i thought the directing was magnificent (even though I AM NOT a soderbergh fan) and juss... the shots were so beautiful. the cinematography was superb and the acting was definitely solid.

i didn't like, first of all, the woman who played Rheya. I have never liked her. But she grows on you. when she first comes out i couldn't bare it, but she gets better and really good towards the end.

i guess it started slow, but i happened to like the pacing. Soderbergh gave you a lot of time to think about whats happening. Clooney was great. His ass was too. Jeremy Davies was great too! i think he's so underrated. he's a great actor who deserves more recognition. Viola was good too. very very creepy.

i love the music. hehe.

SPOILERS BELOW

Okay. so what was the end exactly? Me and my friends were arguing about it on the way out. I guess we decided though that Clooney had decided to stay on the ship because he wanted to be with Rheya ever so badly. He slipped into Solaris and i think he died. Or maybe it wasn't death. Maybe it was just a rebirth. He was reborn again through Solaris.

Solaris takes memories from the inhabitants that are in its field of a loved one, someone who is really special to oneself. Then Solaris, in an attempt to lure humans into its trap, distributes a replica of this being, using only memories... something along those lines. and she came back. and she was like "im suicidal because thats how you remember me". so, kelvin, not wanting to remember her any longer as suicidal, stays on board, and goes into solaris where he is born again with new memories of rheya. i love that scene at the end. total deja vu. he gets cut, but doesnt really get cut, and he sees her and says "am i dead?" and she goes "we dont have to think like that anymore" so in a way clooney is dead. but in another way. hes alive.

Rheya came back wearing the same dress from when she committed suicide. it was red. Solaris started out blue. but as the movie went on solaris turned red. the pills rheya used to kill herself was blue. but clooney had swallowed some red ones. at the end, rheya is wearing a blue dress, when solaris has turned redish pink.

does this have any symbolic meaning?

what about the rain? that was obviously symbolic... but of what? it was always raining in the flashbacks. im not saying i didnt like it, cuz i love rain in movies, but it was just so obviously symbolic but i juss couldnt put my finger on what....

Why did Snow see himself? And who was Gordon's visister? was it the captain that came back to speak to clooney? or was that just a dream?

so many questions...

END SPOILER

flowrchild

11-28-2002, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by dellamorte dellamore
I know i didn't see it, but from reading these posts my aasumptions seemed to be correct...

Do you ever actually SEE movies before criticizing them?

And daredevil0214- I think your explanation of the movie is excellent, and it explained some things to me that I was unsure about. Thanks!

****Spoilers******

Just a guess, but maybe the rain symbolizes how things were kind of bad and rocky when they were together in the past, but now that they are together again, it will be a lot nicer and less troublesome. That is just a guess.

****End Spoilers****

daredevil0214

11-28-2002, 04:37 PM

hey, its a good guess, it makes sense. hehe. thanks.

flowrchild

11-28-2002, 05:51 PM

No prob :)

darkface

11-29-2002, 03:24 AM

I just watched this movie again for the second time in two days. And i'm damn glad i did. It answered so many more questions, but it also gave me more to think about.

*spoilers*
The whole color thing with Red and Blue has a bigger role. For example Solaris changes from Blue to Red through-out the film. She wears a blue dress and the night Reya dies she has a red dress type of thing on with a blue button-shirt over it. Then when she lays down to fall asleep and die she took off her blue shirt to where she only has red on. And George Clooney's room is red... etc it may not sound big but when you're watching it it has a bigger theme.

i Still don't know why Snow's imaginary clone person was himself. Maybe he was lonely. And had no friends.

George Clooney dies that night he's sweating and takes too many pills.

That little boy towards the end holding his hand out for george clooney to grab is like Solaris asking him to accept their proposal i guess.

And the door handle that Reya has in the train i guess is like a doorway for George. Remember that man said "there are no answers but choices"

The poem: though lovers be lost love shall not, and death shall have no dominion

-i'm still trying to figure out more about what Solaris's point. What's it's true meaning. Is it heaven? is it a new dimension? is it a new galaxy? (2001:) etc....

-end spoilers

I'll add more when i think of it, hopefully this will keep this topic going and interest more of us to think of more things.
Feel free to disagree or add things.

but WOW what a great movie. One of my favorites. I would love to just sit and talk to Sodebergh about this movie. Hopefully the DVD commentary will explain things.

chikusho

11-29-2002, 10:01 AM

I loved solaris! I thought it was an incredible film with incredible actors. George Clooney gave a stunning performance. There were so many long dialogue sequences and he just executed them personally. People always give him such shite about his acting. About three ppl criticized me for seeing it, denouncing him a bad actor. However this movie has shown his true performance.

The actors were all just incredible, each added their own to the development of the film.

Anyway, onto the spoilers.

:eek: SPOILERS!!!! :eek:
This film just raised so many questions for me. I saw it a couple of days ago with my friends and we came out just..wondering and debating. We saw so much symbolism but we weren't sure what they meant. We could've been looking too much into it, but there was a lot of symbolism.

:rolleyes: hehe, that's a funny face..anyway.

Solaris...seemed to be presented as a place of torment. Or as an invitation into it. Solaris seems to be represented as a heaven. The scene at the end with the boy, their hand touching, like the Michelangelo painting where adam is reaching for God's hand. Kelvin seemed to be reaching for it, but then the hands blacked out, kind of like granting death. But that's only a theory.

Obviously, there was something with that red, blue things. It just appeared and reappeared so much. I'm not quite sure what.

Anyway, solaris being a place of torment. All the people on the ship were tormented. Gorden wanted to kill her "visitor", Snow was killed by his own representation (or was it his bro? nah, probably just his image). The guy before committed suicide w/ his son remaining. But Clooney was different, he seemed to be the only one that wanted to stay with his "visitor". His unconditional love. Something lost will be granted to them again at solaris.
That's why it seems to be a sort of invitation. Once you get past all that, it brings you into their world. Chris was made a part of solaris, like one of the "visitors". He got cut at the end but was healed. And he asks his wife

"am i dead?"
"we dont' have to think like that anymore."
(i just loved that scene btw).

And to quote from the poem,
"though lovers be lost love shall not "
"and death shall have no dominion"

And i don't think he committed suicide. I always thought his wife gave him the red pills...The wife died with blue pills in her hand. I thought she gave him the red pills 'cause there were many cuts to where she was standing over him. I don't think it makes sense that he would committ suicide. Well, that scene was just choppy anyway, a second viewing would..clarify things. :confused: Haha i love these faces...

Solaris grants heaven for those who want it...

That's my theory.

i'm sure i'm missing something...but i can't remember.

Well, onto the symbolism. Can anyone answer these questions?
THe rain was an obvious symbolism, the film was dark almost all the time. Representing his...loneliness? but solaris was vibrant with colors. The part with the fridge, in the beginning where he opens it and takes out the cucumber, and then at the end, he closes the fridge and it's a picture of his wife. Was there any symbolism within her name? rhea? And there was that scene with the doorknob on the train. Was it like, mystery? Yeah. Ok, there's my theory.

:eek: SPOILER>> END :eek:

P.S. i loved some of the music. some was really eery and creepy, even though it was supposed to be.

Also, what kind of movie are they trying to advertise it as? I told ppl i saw it, and they were like.."was it scary?"

DerekL2865

11-29-2002, 01:56 PM

SPOILERS!!!! RUN AWAY FROM THESE SPOILERS!!!!

Alright, good...

Snow's vision was his brother, at least that's what he said, right? Maybe he didn't lie? I'm a twin myself, and maybe so was Snow? His twin brother would look and act like him, if they were close. Which they had to be for him to show up as his "visitor". So that might solve that.

Red could symbolize acceptance? Suicide? The proposal? The pills?

Blue could symbolize resistance? The first mix of colours in Solaris? The suicide pills? (she doesn't want to, but then she slips off the blue shirt and she's all red, which means she's accepted this fate.) I dunno, I'm just throwing things out.

I think the boy at the end is definately Solaris asking Clooney to accept the offer. The way it's shot is way too similar to the painting in the Sistine chapel to not be.

I think that covers everything that's been brought up. If not, toss it out again.

Wait, as for Rhya's name? Isn't that the original name for Earth? From the greek mythology? Maybe it's a name representable of home for Clooney? Earth = Home? Like I said, I dunno, but that's what came to me when someone asked.

Hope this helped a little.

END OF SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Derek L

dh1989

11-29-2002, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by chikusho
I don't think it makes sense that he would committ suicide.

SPOILERS

I do he is obviously very sad about his wife, and I believe Solaris was making him go a bit mad. And that is night his wife's ghost(or whatever she was) went to the black lady and what shot with that ray(I fogrget the name). Maybe he had some sort of premonition(sp?) that she was going to leave or he might've had a feeling. Who knows? This is is my opinion, though.

Marchesk

11-29-2002, 03:42 PM

*** Spoilers ***

Ok, so I was beat to this conclusion but oh well.

Was Solaris Heaven ... or Hell? I'm not so sure that it was Heaven. The movie seemed to have sinister undertones.

Nobody has mentioned the scene where the guy (the mission commander?) who committed suicide appeared to Kelvin. Kelvin asked him about the suicide and he replied that he was beginning to think that it was a mistake. Then he warned Kelvin to get out of there.

And I'm still waiting for an analysis of that whole sequence when he was taking the red pills and supposedly died. Kelvin saw multiple Rheas. One was looking out the window to Solaris whispering something about how "Chris doesn't trust us yet" (?). Another was talking with the kid. And then Rhea was staring at him in a hypnotic, creepy fashion both in his dreams / memories of her and while he was laying on the bed half dying / sleeping - whatever.

And what happened to the hole in the door that Kelvin saw which I suppose Rhea blasted through in order to get the Higgs Device used on her? When Kelvin finally woke up (from sleep or death) it was gone but the door was open.

If he really died, then nothing after word was truly real. We don't know what really happened to Gordon, Snow, and the station. We don't really know that Snow was killed by his duplicate. We don't really know that the Higgs device causes the mass of Solaris to grow, sucking the station in to itself.

But I digress. If Snow was really a copy, then why didn't he warn them that the Higgs device would backfire (if this sequence of events really happened)? Were the copies manipulating the humans for their own means or Solaris's purposes? Was it a trap to keep their souls / minds in the grip of Solaris forever?

And what about Kelvin's fate? Was it really a good ending? Think about spending an eternity (or as long as Solaris lasted) with a being made from your memories. Living in a place from your memories. How can you grow, learn, go on with life? Is that really living? It's not reality as we human beings understand it. So I think it's more likely to become a hell for Kelvin in the long run. He will too regret having made the wrong choice just as the mission commander was beginning to regret his suicide.

And maybe this is a metaphysical (?) question about the afterlife and whether what we think of as heaven would really be a heaven or a hell if we could actually experience it. I think the conversation about God with Kelvin's friends and Rhea at dinner plus the conversation with suicidal mission commander explore just such questions. In conclusion, is Solaris God or the Devil and is choosing to stay there Heaven or Hell?

blankpage

11-29-2002, 11:09 PM

Well a good handful of positive reviews so far which is very good. Basically everyone who has seen it says it is slow, so I have that to keep in mind. Although it should be effective for what it's worth. I should be seeing it Sunday.

BTW, just a question. I have heard that the film doesn't have a huge cast, is this true?

DerekL2865

11-30-2002, 02:19 AM

Very true.

I'd say only Clooney is a lead role. All others support him, and there's only about 4 of them to even mention. (Snow, Gordon, Rhya, and his friend that calls him up there in the first place).

I love flicks will small casts. Im not sure why though.

Derek L

jmainaz

11-30-2002, 03:54 AM

Don't forget the line when his wife thought that is was very odd that there were no pictures anywhere in their apartment, not even on the refridgerator. In the beginning when he closes the fridge there is nothing, in the end, when he closes the fridge, there is now a picture of his wife. This is when he starts to realize that he is not "alive" anymore.

Kastman

11-30-2002, 08:29 AM

I think you'll all be rather dissapointed with cinemascore's cinema score on SOLARIS. HOY, little harsh dont ya reckons.

Solaris (PG-13) Male Female
Under 21------------ F----- F
21 to 34------------- F----- F
35 and Up----------- F----- F

bskutle

11-30-2002, 09:08 AM

**#3 on Brian's "Must-See" list of Fall 2002**
I'll go ahead and say it now- if you choose to see Steven Soderbergh's "Solaris," most of you will NOT like it. How do I know this? Because my mother hated it, and the film has become a moviegoer's abommonation the likes of which my theater has likely ever seen, with audience members leaving in mass Exodus demanding refunds and wishing they'd seen something else. My B+ puts me in the extreme minority regarding the movie, adapted from Stanislaw Lem's novel, previously the basis for the art-house film of the same name by Russian visionary Andrei Tarkovsky (newly released on DVD courtesy The Criterion Collection, and an A film in my book). First off on Soderbergh's film, allow me to concede- it IS the longer 100 minute film you're likely to ever see. Soderbergh pays homage to Tarkovsky's tendency for long, methodical shots and silence over dialogue, and to be frank, it doesn't work for Soderbergh...all the time. There are moments the visual wonders of Soderbergh's "Solaris"- courtesy of Soderbergh's cinematography and the excellent visual effects of Cinesite Entertainment- will inspire an awe rivaled by sci-fi masterworks "2001" and "A.I.". And the score by Soderbergh regular Cliff Martinez ("Traffic," "King of the Hill") is a spellbinder and one of the year's best. Unlike Tarkovsky's film, which was intellectual and focusing more on the science fiction aspect of the story (about a psychologist sent up to a space station orbiting the mystical planet of Solaris when two crew members end up dead, and the remaining crew is plagued by hallucinations created by Solaris), Soderbergh- who also wrote the script- focuses his film- also intellectual in it's own right- on the interaction and past relationship between the psychologist (George Clooney) and the vision of his deceased wife (Natascha McElhone). But don't confuse this for "Titanic" in space, even though James Cameron produces. It's really a probing of issues regarding letting go of the past, and how our memories of loved ones who have passed on may not do them justice in how they were in life. Much has been made of Clooney's bare ass threatening an R on "Solaris"; this isn't "Last Tango in Paris," folks, although I will say that when Soderbergh likened "Solaris" to a combination of "2001" and "Last Tango in Paris," he wasn't kidding- it's as befuddling as "2001," as immersed in doomed, tragic romance as "Paris." But hand this to Soderbergh- love it or hate it, you'll never forget you saw it, even if you want to.

flowrchild

11-30-2002, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Kastman

Solaris (PG-13) Male Female
Under 21------------ F----- F
21 to 34------------- F----- F
35 and Up----------- F----- F

Eeeek, it's too bad this movie is going to be an enormous flop and hated by many. But on the bright side, every Schmoe who's seen it has really liked it so far :) And we're a tough crowd!

daredevil0214

11-30-2002, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by jmainaz
Don't forget the line when his wife thought that is was very odd that there were no pictures anywhere in their apartment, not even on the refridgerator. In the beginning when he closes the fridge there is nothing, in the end, when he closes the fridge, there is now a picture of his wife. This is when he starts to realize that he is not "alive" anymore.

i totally forgot that. thank you! :D

so then it does make more sense that way. i suppose. like i was saying above... clooney actually went through a rebirth when he entered solaris. and gathering from what everyone else is saying, it makes sense that the little boy was solaris asking clooney to come with him. like that scene in michealangelo's painting (magnificent painting). like someone said "its too similar not to be noticed" or something along those lines.

so heres my theory...

so then clooney, from hearing his wife, or just a duplicate of his wife, scream and shout that she wasn't really his wife, but just an image. "im suicidal because that's how you remember me". and the wife was talking about how it was odd that there weren't any pictures anywhere, not even on the refridgerator (thanks jmainaz)

he didnt want that to be how he remembered her. so in an attempt to make everything right again, i suppose, with this new information, he went into solaris, and he came back. he was cut, but healed instantly. theres that picture of Rheya on the fridge. and shes back... in a blue dress... as if everything was back to normal...

the more i think about this film, the more i fall in love with it. i must see it a second time. anyway.

Nate6

11-30-2002, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Kastman
Solaris (PG-13) Male Female
Under 21------------ F----- F
21 to 34------------- F----- F
35 and Up----------- F----- F

Holy shit! :eek: :eek: :eek:

dh1989

11-30-2002, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Kastman
Solaris (PG-13) Male Female
Under 21------------ F----- F
21 to 34------------- F----- F
35 and Up----------- F----- F

Whoa. I expected bad Cinemascores because the film is clealry not mainstream, nor is it quick-paced, but those scores are harsh.

Mike

11-30-2002, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Kastman
Solaris (PG-13) Male Female
Under 21------------ F----- F
21 to 34------------- F----- F
35 and Up----------- F----- F

WOW! I expected bad Cinema Score reviews, but I was thinking it would mainly be made up of these (C-, D's, and a couple F's), not all F's. I knew mainstream audiences wouldn't like this one.

bskutle

11-30-2002, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Kastman
I think you'll all be rather dissapointed with cinemascore's cinema score on SOLARIS. HOY, little harsh dont ya reckons.

Solaris (PG-13) Male Female
Under 21------------ F----- F
21 to 34------------- F----- F
35 and Up----------- F----- F

Damn! Seriously though, is anyone THAT shocked? I'll admit to thinking maybe Cs and Ds as well, but today's audiences just don't really like to think in movies (no offense). They want to laugh, cry, and enjoy themselves, not think about philosophical questions like "Solaris" presents.

darkface

11-30-2002, 04:15 PM

what sucks about results like that is Studios are going to realize that *think* movies are moneyless. So now movies like Donnie Darko, Memento, and Solaris won't be made anymore. Because the studios know they won't make money off them. If a movie like 2001: ASO were to come out right now, i don't think it would have the same impact with audiences.

Nate6

11-30-2002, 04:49 PM

SOLARIS

OK, so I'm sitting in the theater, watching this movie, thinking to myself, "This is the longest, slowest, most boring movie I've ever seen." For this reason alone I should hate this film. But God help me, I loved it. I loved it because it was boring.

There's something to be said for the care that Soderbergh took with this, a movie that is so patient, so ponderous it almost puts you to sleep, yet is all worth it in the end. The questions this film raises about death, life, how we function and why we are what we are easily makes this the deepest piece of cinema so far released in 2002, or in the past five years for that matter.

George Clooney does Oscar-calibre work in this film, he is the nucleus of the story and it's mostly because of him and him alone that this movie works. Natasha McElhone impresses, Jeremy Davies is weird, and Viola Davis' character is maybe the film's most intriguing, a scientist desperate for the humans to beat the planet...to beat fate. The central message of Solaris is the almighty second chance. What if you could do things differently? Would you allow yourself to be taken over by such a wonderful image? Would you avoid all the logistical questions to get to what you want?

The ultimate film-lover's film, Solaris takes it time, and for that, I am grateful. The debate I had with my dad on the drive home...well, that was just priceless.

10/10

Cyclonus

11-30-2002, 07:44 PM

I just went to see it tonight, and I think I'll have to watch it again in order to give it a proper review.

As it was, Solaris was really dense, really complex. It seemed more like an art film than a conventional studio science-fiction movie. The sets and special effects were great, but I don't think it will do very well in theaters. I'm sorry I can't say much more at this juncture. :(

Rating: 8/10 (I guess)

Lazy Boy

11-30-2002, 07:56 PM

I won't offer any interpretations on what the symbolism of certain scenes are, so...

The film is a worthy companion to Andrei Tarkovsky's flawed but thoroughly absorbing master work. Steven Soderbergh has remained faithful to the utter style and glacier-like pace of the original, with minimal dialogue and beautiful visuals. No scene is wasted here, in my opinion (plus, the fact that we don't have to deal with a 5-10 minute long scene of a car on a highway).

As with the original, or perhaps even more so, the film asks the audience (those who are willing to stay with it) questions concerning who we know and how well we know them. Does destroying a carbon copy of a long gone loved one play on the moral and ethical principles the main character must deal with?

Clooney must be given full credit for seeking such diverse projects as these, not willing to pick hackneyed scripts and such.

While a part of me loved the poetic genius of the film, the other half of me was trying to reject it as a dull, cloudy bore. One of the few mistakes is that Soderbergh spells out the meaning of the final scene with a key line of dialogue I feel should've been left out.

I have to sit and think some more about this work. Thank God (or whomever) for allowing the craft of independent values to roam free in Hollywood's creative niches. This is gonna bomb, no doubt, as people want to digest more "safe" films that don't challenge them (although Punch Drunk Love was as simplistic and
easy to follow as any film I've ever seen, yet people hated it. I wonder sometimes what audiences want...)

The original: **** out of ****
This version: ***1/2 out of ****

Lazy Boy

11-30-2002, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by Kastman

Solaris (PG-13) Male Female
Under 21------------ F----- F
21 to 34------------- F----- F
35 and Up----------- F----- F

That's pathetic...and yet junk like Jackass and My Big Fat Greek Wedding gunk up like slime on the big screen and make a big fat cash cow.

:(

Solaris isn't perfect, but its more challenging and worthy of discussion than most films coming out of La La Land.

notchreturns

11-30-2002, 08:10 PM

Sheesh... those are some bad grades. A funny story, as I was leaving the theater an old lady said to her friend, another old lady.. "That made absolutely no sense!"... I started to crack up... good times... Anyway,

I'll give Solaris a 8/10... It was pretty slow, but I was never bored or staring off into space, etc. The visuals were excellent, as was the cinematography. The long moments of silence and non-dialogue were very effective and well-done. The story was quite complex and interesting, as were the characters and ideas that were running through the film. I was left pondering, which is always a good thing. Clooney might recieve some oscar consideration, and he might deserve it. He carried this heavy, complex story on his shoulders. A very subtle, emotional performance. Nice ass, too... The rest of the cast was pretty good, from Davies, who was as quirky as they come, to Viola Davis, who did wonders with quite the under-written role?...

The score was also worth mention, for it puts you in a great mood throughout the film.

So, Solaris, which is very slow and demanding on the audience, pays off if ya want it to. If you can fight the slow pace of the film and attempt to see the characters, you might be in for a treat.

8/10

Buck Turgidson

11-30-2002, 10:24 PM

Roger's full print review: http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/cst-ftr-solar27f.html

I didn't think the audience reation would be that bad. I've said it before, I'll say it now: America is full of morons.

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." - H.L. Mencken.

notchreturns

11-30-2002, 11:41 PM

Damn! Love him or hate him, Ebert sure does know how to write a great review...

Buck Turgidson

12-01-2002, 01:03 AM

Well said, notch. That's exactly how I feel about him.

jackson13

12-01-2002, 01:31 AM

My g/f and I saw this tonight, and umm, I dont know what to say about it. Mainly because, Im not quite sure what happened in the movie. I dont think I've ever seen a movie as confusing as this one. Was Clooney dead to begin with? Did he die on the ship? What was really going on on the ship? Were the crew members alive themselves? What was Solaris, other than a planet? Maybe someone can answer these questions for me. I liked to movie, it was just beautiful and extremely well acted, Im just not sure what happened in this movie.

WhatsamattaU

12-01-2002, 02:20 AM

OK, here's my interpretation of the ending...

The pills Kris keeps taking are some kind of uppers to keep him awake. He needs to stay awake so he can prevent Rheya from getting to Gordon and being zapped out of existence. The multiple Rheyas he sees are hallucinations caused from sleep deprivation. Maybe Gibarian is a hallucination too. Maybe even the hole in the bulkhead. Dunno there. Seems to me Kris could have let himself go to sleep if he knew that Rheya couldn't operate the door.

At the end, the living Kris sinks into Solaris and dies. But... the first Rheya copy has survived the pod (they resurrect if they die, remember?), which was drawn to Solaris by its gravitational field. There Solaris creates an alternative Earth--a carbon copy of Kris and Rheya's home and city, where there doesn't seem to be any sign of Kris's friends ("those fucking people") as the copy Rheya's wish fulfillment. The Rheya copy also wishes for a visitor, and a copy Kris appears there. He says that he's "haunted by the thought that he never remembered her right." The copy Kris would think that because the copy Rheya thought the same, and he is based on her memories.

And whoever in this thread said that Snow's brother was a twin is a genius. :D That's got to be it. No bond is closer than the one between twins, so of course Snow would want his brother to be there. What isn't so clear, though, is why he'd try to kill the copy so quickly. Didn't the copy say he was only there 10 minutes?

It's a shame this movie isn't doing better with the mainstream audience. Don't you hate that people can't be bothered to think anymore?

"Solaris" had its flaws, but I enjoyed it overall. I thought it was beautifully filmed, and Clooney gave an outstanding performance. Jeremy Davies was odd, but fun to watch. You never knew what he was going to do next. Natascha McElhone was competent and exotically beautiful, but the girl needs some meat on her bones. In some of the nude scenes she looked creepily thin. Someone buy her a Big Mac and supersize the fries!

KcMsterpce

12-01-2002, 05:22 AM

When I see a movie like "Solaris" I have a hard time rating it first off. For example, when I saw "Blue Velvet", I watched it once every year for four years before I finally caught on to all of the amazing details which made me love it! Well, just about any Lynch film makes me do that...

I liked "Solaris". I didn't get bored, was engrossed in each scene that progressed, and in the end I can't rate it... I will say it's good, but do I understand it yet? No...

I will point out things that stuck to me; these are just fragments from the movie that played out as clues to me, and since I JUST came back from the movie I can't include everything but what comes into my head right now... kind of a freeflow thought process. Perhaps my idea of clues here can help meld the ideas that other people have and form a better concept of what this movie is about:

****SPOILERS***** ******SPOILERS******

Are we ready for this little adventure? Good, let's go!

Obviously blue and red are important colors: Generally, in symbolism blue is good and red is bad. I first noticed Solaris was red when the first unpleasant memory/flashback was shown. The blue pills were to help "relax" Rheya, to go to sleep. The red pills were taken when Kris Kelvin wanted to stay awake, and he DID take a lot of pills, but sleep deprivation would cause him to have visions. Plus of course the color scheme came into effect wih Rheya's outfits...

Some of the memories are very dark and hazy - many of the scenes replaying moments between Kris and Rheya are very dark and hazy; perhaps incorrect visions of his relationship with her? For example the scene at the supermarket... only THEY are in view the whole time, and everything is obviously darker than it's supposed to be... look at the top of the screen and you'll notice the darkness of the whole frame... Kinda interesting, really.

The dinner table scene was a discussion about religion, and God being percieved as "an old man with a white beard"; the first thing that comes to mind with that vision is to me is the Michelangelo Sistine Chapel image of God giving life to Adam. We see a very similar image of this in the end when Kris takes the young boy MICHAEL's hand and accepts whatever offer was given to him by that action. I will see this movie again and try to remember more details about this religious discussion. But there was a comment about Kris being "nihilistic", meaning that life to him is meaningless...

The dream/vision with Gibarian - another scene that is important. He chose to kill himself (BIG DEAL HERE) and said that he felt it 'was a good idea at the time'. Obvisouly he isn't proud that he did it. Also, he mentioned that there were 'choices' to be made on Kris's behalf. That's a big deal, too.

After taking the red pills - Welcome to the real world :rolleyes: HAHAH j/k. Anyways... He has the strange hallucinagenic - or hyperrealistic - vision of several Rheyas at once talking to Michael, a Rheya talking to someone offscreen saying that Kris 'isn't trusting' them yet, her staring at him in conjunction to fleeting moments of his memories of her looking at him the same way. Again, I'll have to watch the movie again to get more from it. Plus, the bloody hole punched through the hull... how many were there from the rescue team that came to them, and where are THEIR bodies???

Kris Kelvin's inner dialogue in the end - about not knowing if his memories of Rheya are correct or not, re-learning to do the habits that people do, but feeling somehow lost and out of place... is that because he's back home and tyring to recall memories that are CORRECT of Rheya, or because he's chosen to fall into the temptation of Solaris and has become a memory of HIMSELF and that's why he's out of place?

*****END OF SPOILERS******YOU CAN READ ON NOW*****

These are what I feel to be important 'clues' vital to the story. I don't want to be much more lengthy right now. Do these moments count as clues to you that are important and help change your views/ideas of the movie, or am I just being too obscure and not shedding light on anything important? :confused:

Kastman

12-01-2002, 07:12 AM

I guess this might be one of the reasons us schmoes hold ur opinions on movies a few levels above the mainstream audience. the whole.. not-liking-good-movies-thing

Puck Bond

12-02-2002, 11:19 PM

Solaris is a mind-bending, sci-fi, romantic mystery that bring up many fascinating and interesting philosophical questions about life, death, love, our perception of people and reality. George Clooney stars as Dr. Chris Kelvin, who is sent to Solaris to discover what strange things are going on aboard a space-station. Once he arrives, the station is almost deserted with only 3 people left...a weird engineer, a stern doctor and a small kid. There are traces of blood and frozen corpses leaving Dr. Kelvin with many questions about what is happening here. Soon though appears Rehya manifested by dreams and sleep played by Natascha McElhone...his apparently dead wife. This is not something he can quite deal with, because apparently she seems so real. She is there in the flesh, talking, reminiscing and questioning her own reality, which really this film is all about...is there an afterlife? Does our perception of people shape what we think of them when they are gone? Or is she just some strange occurence associated with the purple and blue glowng energy of the planet Solaris. Trying to explain this story is hard and other people will have different interpretations and questions as I did. The film is incredibly slowly and quietly paced and people with the attention span of a mule will dismiss it as boring and won't be able to make much sense of it. If you are expecting a sci-fi action adventure you can forget it...director Steven Soderbergh takes his time with this story as he slowly reveals information bit by bit...that ultimately leaves you wondering more. My main complaint about the film is that there really is no explanation for Solaris...what kind of planet is it and why are we up there observing it. The special effects are good and the art direction and score both very good. Overall Solaris is a sci-fi mystery with a wonderful perormance by George Clooney that explores questions about life, death, love and who we are...it is a film not for everybody but it will make you think.

electriclite

12-02-2002, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by dellamorte dellamore

The original was made in a harsh, oppressive political environment, an amazing feat in itself, it's intellectually and cinematically inspiring.

Not that oppressive. Of the seven films Tarkovsky made in his career this was the only one that the Russian gov't was happy to let him make without much difficulty.

Buck Turgidson

12-02-2002, 11:43 PM

After the way they flipped out over Andrei Rublev (Brezhnev demanded a personal screening and walked out before it was over), I've always been surprised they let him make anything else. I'm guessing the international prestiege that film got bought him enough fame to make him difficult to shut up, and they thought they would use him to their advantage.

They thought Solaris would be seen as hip inside the USSR and give them cachet w/ the youth element.

Marchesk

12-03-2002, 12:21 AM

Even though this is only my fourth post, I do come here occasionally to read the excellent insights and commentary on movies that I personally find intriguing such as Memento, Donnie Darko, Vanilla Sky, The Ring, Solaris, etc. Upon further contemplation of this movie, I will somewhat contradict what I posted earlier in this thread with further speculation.

Recall the religious discussion in the dinner table scene where God is mentioned as an old man with a beard and one of Kelvin’s friends states that we can’t attribute human characteristics to God. Now, throughout the movie, Kelvin keeps trying to figure out what Solaris wants. But Gibarian informed Kelvin when appearing to him that Solaris doesn’t possess wants but rather there are only choices.

I think the idea is that Kelvin and I suppose the Solaris crew kept trying to attribute human motives to Solaris, but the point is that like God, you can’t do that. And Solaris did seemingly posses god-like abilities. Also, recall how nobody could communicate directly with Solaris, not even the copies. So maybe Kelvin, like everyone else except possibly Gordon (if that really happened), chose to stay “in” Solaris. Remember, they all could have left at any time but chose not too.

About Solaris being heaven. So Kelvin chose heaven - I suppose his version in which he gets to stay with his Rhea memory copy forever experiencing his lost love. Solaris apparently granted him (and the Rhea copy) that wish. But my question is still whether that is heaven.

Maybe the movie is questioning whether our idea of heaven as a perfect place with no death or pain and reunion with loved ones. If we could have that wish granted like Kelvin does, would it really be heaven? At first it would be great, but what about in the long run? Will Solaris generate any new experiences or do Kelvin and the Rhea clone have to live only in Kelvin’s memories? Can Kelvin and Rhea learn and grow? If there is no pain or uncertainty and thus no challenges then will it become a dull and boring existence? The quote from Vanilla Sky, “The bitter makes the sweet sweeter” comes to mind.

DerekL2865

12-03-2002, 12:35 AM

I would be the genius who said Snow's brother was a twin.

Merci!

Derek L feels special now.

P.S. I think your summary makes a lot of sense and I'm discussing it with the girlfriend right now! ;)

dannywalker17

12-05-2002, 06:26 PM

Solaris
Directed by Stephen Soderberg
Starring George Clooney, Natasha McElhone, Jeremy Davies

Rating: 6/10 :o
**Some Spoilers**

If I were solely grading this movie based on whether I liked it, my rating would be much lower. The film was slow and seemed long, although it wasn't, which is a bad thing. But I have to give Solaris a couple of points for being an ok film despite my dislike of it. The film left me with a lot of questions, as it is obviously intended to do, but I feel too little was answered in the film itself. On top of my many questions on the philisophical ideas of the film and "what exactly happened at the end?", I found myself questioning things that would be in most cases considered plot holes. At the beginning, they said that security forces were sent to the space station when the doctor's message was recieved, and Davies character says that they came and that unnamed crew member flipped out so they killed him and thats what all the blood is. WELL, what happened to these security people??? Snow also says that one crew member is simply missing and they know he's nowhere onboard the station. There is no explanation of this either. At the same time, the film raises some interesting themes, such as sanctity of life and does God really exist. The problem, again, is that nearly nothing is answered in the end. The other thing that struck me was that this film seemed to take too much from 2001. Very similar cinematography, very similar score, and very similar themes. But overall, Soderberg's film doesn't compare to Kubrick's visionary film, which actually had a point and didn't leave viewers with an extremely broad range of possible explanations, not to mention how much more interesting 2001 was. Also, if anyone has ever played the video game MYST, did you notice the striking similarities between Gebardian's message to Kelvin and the messages to the player that is found inside the book in Myst. As soon as I saw it, I said "I've seen this before. Anyway, I do not not recommend this film. I am glad I saw it and I strongly recommend seeing this movie so you can form your own opinion. Have fun.

P.S. Hey Marchesk, I saw Solaris in Wichita last week at the Warren on 13th.

blankpage

12-06-2002, 09:37 PM

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0307479/C120-8.jpg

SOLARIS

Satrring- George Clooney,Natascha McElhone,Jeremy Davies,Viola Davis

Directed by- Steven Soderberg

PG-13

Story- A man who looses his wife arrives on a spave ship. He finds out that the planet it is orbiting holds terrible secrets.

Solaris is a stunning and powerful film. It takes up various topics and turns it into a twisted Sci- Fi masterpiece. But one things is don't go into this film expecting big Aliens attacking. It is a quiet, but still twisted and odd film. The film doesn't focus on it's dialouge skills. But shows the insanity that happens to the people, centering basically around Clooney's charatcer. Although this film isn't totally Sci- Fi. It combines with romance that is so different that many couples would think it is unbielevable. But that fact it is, it is powerful. The fact of someone of loving someone that may not be totally real is quite sweet. The film begins quiet, with many cuts and interesting angles. It stays this way until the final 15 minutes or so. Where the whole things is brought into focus, and we realize so much. The insanity of it all is great.

Something that this film has is a very amazing score. Possibly the best of 2002. Some of it's haunting, but yet brilliant piece's make the movie going expirence for this all the more better. I would probably even think about picking up a copy of the soundtrack. It gives focus into the film, and tells the viewer how the feelings are. The thing about this film is that, many of the general public will walk out of this movie with a frown. Today when I saw it a man left the film before it was even finished. He was shaking in head like Guy Ritchie after Swept Away. People will think this film is sooooo long, low paced, and boring. And it was, well not from my view. Yes it was long, and at times seemed low paced but I was never bored for a minute. The visuals were beautiful. The planet Solaris was brilliantly shot. It mixes with beautiful colours, and gives a mystery that the planet has.

George Clooney hands down gave the best performance in this film. He shows off his acting talents, and gives the audience a perciptaion of going bloody mad. He gives us as well of a charatcer who would want something so bad, even though it might not be real. Clooney was outstanding, and possibly the best performance of 2002. It just shows how good of an actor this man is. This film as it closed I think left questions un- answered. Which was I think my only problem with the film. It leaves the viewer to decide many questions that need to be answered during the film. Although I got the jist of it, and I think I was satisfied with the way it ended.

Solaris is being compared to Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odessy. Although I haven't seen 2001 for a while, I don't think it as great. Although it makes a wonderul comparison. For it is a pwerful, amazing piece of film. One of the best of 2002. I might even check this film out again if I have the time. So that says a lot about a film.

9/10.

Fergus

12-07-2002, 02:43 AM

Soderbergh's version...

I saw it finally, earlier this week. But dammit, I missed the first ten minutes, and I walked out confused as hell. No joke. The funny thing about this....is how well I understood the original by Tarkovsky. Soderbergh's version wasn't as deep, nor as powerful, but I liked his approach in that I was kept thinking. However, I was also on a date at the time, and knew she wasn't going to like this movie, so the film didn't have my full attention. My reaction though, the movie was too short, I wanted much more out of it, even though my thought had been provoked amongst confusion. I'd give it an 8.5 at the moment, and I don't know why, so it isn't official till I see this again.

My thoughts on Tarkovsky's version in comparison..............

Frequently, this has been called, “Russia’s answer to 2001.” A comparison that I was originally confused by because it points to the fact that these two films are somewhat alike. As of now, that statement couldn’t be more true. This is the third time in a row that I’ve been completely mesmerized by a Tarkovsky film. The first was “Stalker”, the second “Nostalghia”, and now the most ambitious of the three has taken me by complete surprise as a result of its complexity. It’s also very hard to describe this piece of science fiction without giving too much away. It’s a sci-fi romance/mystery/philosophical journey all rolled into one. It’s a romance, yet, it isn’t really a romance at all; more of an “artificial” romance. If that doesn’t sound strange enough, watch the film. Both Solaris and “2001: a space odyssey” share one thing asides their science fiction roots; they explore mankind in a psychological way.

2001 expressed its point visually, taking us on a trip without explaining much. Solaris at times is very talky, which takes it into a different direction. Like 2001, it sets up a mystery, much farther into the film, regarding the planet Solaris. The mystery that is setup is never solved, and we are still wondering, “what is it?” But that is not the only mystery that drives the film; the other involves the main character, Chris Kelvin, and how he struggles to understand himself, and his love for the woman he lost many years before. There is a great irony in this. Kelvin, a psychologist, is sent to the planet Solaris to do a report on the scientists who are working on a station to see whether the project should be terminated or not. Yet, he himself is the one eventually subjected to being studied.

The scientists are sent to study the planet, but the reason that they haven’t and cannot find a logical explanation to the problem laid down in front of them is that they do not understand themselves. It even occurs at one point in the film where the brightest scientist Snauth doesn’t have all the answers, and he’s right. Even in the end, they are still in a state of confusion, but we somehow understand that state of confusion. I don’t think Stainslaw Lem, or even Tarkovsky for that matter, set out to answer questions about humanity, but merely brought the questions and ideas forth to present them in a way that we might understand that not everything can be explained. We are limited as human beings. The final shot demonstrates that.

Tarkovsky brings the film both hauntingly and beautifully together. Not only does he do that, but his camerawork is slow and contemplative. It baffles me how someone like him can be that patient… it blows my mind. He was one of a kind… a visual poet… a master at bringing art to the screen, but his filmography only spans 7 films. I read that he considered this to be the weakest of all his films, but that isn’t saying much. I still consider it to be one of the great science fiction films. Complex, mind bending, beautiful, and haunting...a great film. (9.5/10)

Strider

12-07-2002, 05:09 AM

Solaris (2002)

Rated PG-13 for Sexuality/Nudity, Language, and Thematic Elements

Director: Steven Soderbergh

Starring George Clooney, Natascha McElhone, Jeremy Davies, and Viola Davis.

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0307479/C183-25.jpg

"Upon arrival at the space station orbiting an ocean world called Solaris a psychologist, Chris Kelvin (George Clooney) discovers that the commander of an expedition to the planet has died mysteriously. Other strange events soon start happening as well, such as the appearance of old acquaintances of the crew, including some who are dead."

It's quite unbelievable to think that this film is produced by James Cameron, who brought us such sci-fi/action flicks such as "Aliens" and "The Terminator" films. Steven Soderbergh's new film and remake, "Solaris", is a complete opposite. It replaces violence and action for story, dialouge, character development, and many other things.

The most amazing thing about "Solaris" is the cast, for it only constists of four people and characters, with the only big name being George Clooney. However, this very small cast delivered solid performances. Clooney does a wonderful job delivering the somberness of his character, and shares a memorable chemistry with Natascha McElhone. The other two, Jeremy Davies and Viola Davis, have very limited screen time, but they still were good.

Steven Soderbergh really out-doned himself here. This film is unlike anything Soderbergh has directed before. "Solaris" is definitely something new for Soderbergh, but he still handles the film brilliantly. Soderbergh proves here that he can be very versatile as a director. He can do gritty dramas such as "Traffic" and "The Limey", to crime comedies such as "Ocean's 11", to dark comedy/romance such as "Out of Sight", to a sci-fi/romance/drama such as "Solaris". What a talented guy, eh? Soderbergh always seems to amaze me.

Once again, just like several other films released this year, "Solaris" is another film where the viewer will love it or hate it. There will be many that will write the film off as "pretentious", "boring", or "stupid".

However, in my opinion, it's none of these things. Instead of pretentious, it's thoughtful. Instead of boring, it's intriguing. Instead of stupid, it's intelligent.

Since the subject material is not something that will attract a lot of movie-goers, there's a great possibility that "Solaris" will be virtually ignored by the mainstream audiences. Still, the film has a chance to be acknowledged and seen by the real movie buffs out there, and I hope this happens.

"Solaris" is a brilliant, thought-provoking, and somewhat touching science-fiction drama about love and relationships. It's a wonderfully crafted film that delivers in every department, and has a great Kubrickian touch to it. I loved it!

Running Time: 1 hour 39 minutes

Grade: 9/10 or **** 1/2 out of ***** stars

Strider

Buck Turgidson

12-09-2002, 01:31 AM

I don't know how many of you Schmoes remember this, but 20 years ago, Blade Runner provoked almost exactly the same audience reaction, for most of the same reasons. Now it's (justly), considered a masterpiece. People went expecting Indiana Jones in Orbit and were greivously pissed when asked to think and pay attention. Similar phenomenon w/ similar results here.

Dude

12-10-2002, 10:32 AM

I'm American, but it drives NUTS that the majority of Americans refuse to be intellectually challenged in a film. Yeah, I may get a chuckle or 2 out of Jackass, but the fact that the MASSES made THAT flick a hit and NOT Solaris, just goes to show that we as a people are INDEED headed for a bleak future. I like the shoot 'em up space operas as well... but to those who think SCI-FI MUST contain laser battles, 3 eyed alien beings along with explosions... and if it doesnt, then it's NOT Sci-fi, ... well, let's just say that I pity their small minds. You know who you are.... the ones who went and seen Attack of the Clones more than once.... and since THAT wasnt enough, had to see it again in IMAX form.... but yet arent giving Solaris a chance. I'm not talking about MAINLY teens mind you. Solaris is some deep shit... I'm talking about people in their 20's, 30's & 40's who drool like fuckin simpletons over Star Wars & Jackass, but cant sit still for anything that may STIMULATE their Pituitary.

Note: Again, I like action and goofy stuff as well. I'm NOT highminded and pretentious when it comes to film... but for GODS' SAKE... BALANCE out the silliness with intelligence once in awhile people! Or we're ALL gonna turn into a nation of fucking Jerry Springer guests!:(

dellamorte dellamore

12-10-2002, 03:01 PM

I've been ranting about this very same thing for what seems like eons. I love cheese just as much as the next B-Movie fan, but it has to be inspired, not some lazy, padering effort with no mind of it's own.

Now, i already commentd on this film, even though i have yet to see it, only because i feel the original is a masterpiece, and i doubt it can be topped. This one looks like a crib notes version that condenses all the elements that Soderbergh felt were effective in the original.

I'm with you about cinema being in desperate need of thinking man films, but i'm not exactly worried, there are plenty of hidden gems out there, domestic and foreign , you just have to know where to look.

It's not the end of the world just because mindless action films, or goofball fests rule the box office, and i appreciate when a director takes narrative risks instead of trying to please everyone.

Croupier
Dark Days
Tortilla Soup
Needing You
Help( a japanese film, not the beatles documentary )
Pushing Hands
Spanish Prisoner
Taste of Others
Va Savoir
Lovers on the Bridge
Rosetta
Rosie
Dreamlife of Angels
Italian for Beginners
War Zone
Girl on the Bridge
The Closet
Winter Sleepers
Wonderland (not the doc about my hometown of Levittown )
Human Resources
Time Out

All just a list of films i really enjoyed that actually had something to offer emotionally and intellectually, and all of them lingered afterward.

I know this thread is about Solaris, it's just that Dude seemed really stressed about American cinema, i just wanted to offer some antidotes. And once again, i highly recommend that you seek out the original, if you haven't seen it already, it's worth the effort to sit through it's 3 or so hour runtime. Believe me ,ou will never forget it, even if you hate it, it will stay with you for a long while.

Dude

12-10-2002, 05:27 PM

Interesting films Delamorte,

Have you ever seen Alphaville or Element of Crime? I have not yet, but they are on my list.. along with Unknown Marx Bros... BALANCE... it's all about balance.;)

I also realize that the box office from the goofy as well as action type flicks help producers to fund their "refined tastes" in making good films... true, these films WILL continue to get made.. but let's not forget the poor actors who may get rave reviews but bad box office... this can scare them into not taking creative chances in the future. I like Clooney.. and I appreciated his self effacing humor in that he stated he killed the Batman franchise... when EVERYONE with half a brain realizes it was that fucking crossdresser Joel Schumacher who ruined the thing! Take Jim Carrey.... people say, cant he do anything besides slapstick? Then when the guy goes and makes a slice of Americana called The Majestic..... you can hear fuckin CRICKETS chirping in the theaters they're so empty! We're gonna lose some good actors from taking chances.. cause everyone knows in Hollywood, you're only as good as the $$$ your last film made.. and that's a shame.

electriclite

12-11-2002, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by dellamorte dellamore

Now, i already commentd on this film, even though i have yet to see it, only because i feel the original is a masterpiece, and i doubt it can be topped. This one looks like a crib notes version that condenses all the elements that Soderbergh felt were effective in the original.

You shouldn't try to think of it as a competitive effort between Soderbergh and Tarkovsky. No one picks a fight with a dead man.

I doubt Soderbergh was trying to top the original, in fact I'm dead certain he has a lot of love and respect for it. Besides if he wanted to top the movie, he would've done a straight remake of the movie, instead he went back to the source material (the book) and crafted a film exploring other angles and themes in the book. Kind of like Minghella did with The Talented Mr. Ripley. He wasn't making a remake of Purple noon, he made an adaptation focusing on elements that were less explored from the original novel.