Why is Alien 3 overlooked and generally disliked?Spoilers

[Sheepshaver127]

I figured since I've been ranting and raving about this all day it would make a good topic.
Many people don't like this movie because Newt and Hicks do not survive. Their characters are known to be dead almost as soon as the movie starts. I personally applaud this move. It was totally unpredictable and set a great depressing mood.
Another complaint I've heard is about the lighting. Considering they were in a prison colony where barely anything worked I found it to be accurate. I actually think it gave the movie a bit of a grainy look and I liked it.
Ripley's death, shocking and poetic one of the greatest endings. A big part of this movie was about how the Alien had become the only thing in her life. More than that it hinted that not only was she a tough woman but a hero who would go to any lengths to destroy this species.
I found that I actually enjoyed this one just as much as I enjoyed Cameron's pulse-pounding sequel. Everything they did in the third one seemed so hopeless and I found that to be disturbing.

[Shadow Whisper]

A colony of murderers and rapists leaves little to root for. I wanted the alien to kill them. The evolution of Ripley from the earlier movies was utterly destroyed. In Alien she evloves from a victim to a survivor. In Aliens she goes from survivor to conqeror. In Alien 3 she was turned back into a victim with the addition of a death sentence. I dont care for depressing movies if I wanted to be depressed I would look at my bills. A change was needed in the series, but it went in the wrong direction. I felt that after Aliens Hicks should have taken over as the hero and that the aliens should be in aposition to directly threten earth.

[Sheepshaver127]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shadow Whisper:
A colony of murderers and rapists leaves little to root for. I wanted the alien to kill them. The evolution of Ripley from the earlier movies was utterly destroyed. In Alien she evloves from a victim to a survivor. In Aliens she goes from survivor to conqeror. In Alien 3 she was turned back into a victim with the addition of a death sentence. I dont care for depressing movies if I wanted to be depressed I would look at my bills. A change was needed in the series, but it went in the wrong direction. I felt that after Aliens Hicks should have taken over as the hero and that the aliens should be in aposition to directly threten earth.</font>

And Hicks taking over as hero wouldn't have destroyed Ripley's evolution? And the fact that Ripley was given a death sentence but still would not stop hunting the Alien makes her much more than a victim.

[MISFITS_Fiend]

I dunno...I just bought the Alien Trilogy boxset, and I didn't think Alien3 was that godawful bad. It was a very depressing movie to be sure, but I feel that is in keeping with the whole series. Aliens was a kind of departure from the rest of the series (what with all the action involved), but as a whole I enjoyed the series.

[LukeA]

Not to mention it showcases some of the Fincher brilliance that we would later see. The scene towards the beginning where the bodies of Hicks and Newt are being committed to the molten steel, and Charles Dutton is giving his life and death speech with quotes from the Bible, while at the same time the alien is bursting free of its canine host, is extremely well done. Gives me shivers just thinking about it. All in all, a really pretty decent movie, that has always been one of my favorites: 7/10 in all, probably. A heck of a lot better than the Resurrection!

[bowieee]

Alien 3 is a classic and one of my favorite alien movies. Maybe its because it was the first movie out of the alien saga that i saw in the theatre so it has a special place in my heart. As far as rooting for the prisoners I thought they were portrayed with alot more emotion and depth then alot of the marines from the previous movies. They were people who had gone down the wrong path and were paying for their crimes but trying to make something positive out of it. That really intrigued me and drew me in to the storyline.

[thingsgoinon]

I also have to give my kudo's to Alien 3. The series should have stopped right there....it gave closure, and bringing Ripley back in Ep 4 was just plain dumb.

As far as the "not rooting for prisoners"...well no one said you had to root for them, thats not what the story was about. They were ppl trapped with the Alien, no more, no less. They just happened to be ppl ona prison colony. To me this was a wise way to follow Aliens, cuz in typical Hollywood , it could have turned out just to be a rehash....sort of like Alien Ressurection was.

[stevereno]

the only reason why i dislike this movie is because ALIENS is my favorite movie and this was the complet oppiset of it.in ALIENS i cared for the side chararcters but in ALIEN 3 i didn't give a flying shit about anyone.ALIENS 3 does look good and has a whole gothic theme.the prisoners got on my nevers and the whole no guns thing made it boring.david finchers direction is great and i'll give the film points for that.i kept rewinding just to see the beginning due to the quick cuts

OVER ALL I GIVE IT A 6/10

SHIVER ME TIMBERS

[robk]

I disliked Alien 3 basically because it makes the events of Aliens seem pointless. However, I may have liked it better had it been the 1st Alien film.
The creators, though, deserve credit for trying to make a different film.
Happily, David Fincher would go on to better things(Seven, Panic Room).

[Psychocandy]

I went to see Alien 3 in the cinema while on holiday in America when it was released. I dragged my parents to see it knowing that they wouldn't enjoy it (I used to have a bloody minded defensive streak when it came to genre movies that sometimes clouded my judgement). Anyway...they did hate it and I could somehow sense they weren't enjoying it. A little of their dislike kind of rubbed off on me. This resulted in me not enjoying it as much as I would have had I just gone to see it myself and let them go see something Ephronesque. I later caught up with it on video and reformed my opinion of it. It's a good movie. Fincher's direction pushed all the right buttons and the end result is a very stylish and atmospherically shot movie. I didn't have a problem with the death of Hicks and Newt. It was an upsetting but brave move I felt (but i'm a bit of a cynical bastard and have a soft spot for movies that depress the hell out of you). By the time I saw it second time round I was also aware of the amount of tampering the studio had done and was more willing to cut Fincher some slack with regards to the lack of character development and moments of incoherency. I'd give my left nut to see a director's cut of this but I doubt it will ever happen. Fincher seems to have washed his hands of it. It must have really pissed him off to see what should have been a startlingly brilliant debut reduced to something less than what he originally envisaged. The real crime was the next movie...Alien Resurrection. An appalling waste of celluloid and no mistake. I can't believe the Director who made Delicatessen, City of Lost Children and especially last years masterpiece Amelie was responsible for this piece of horseshit. Ripley's death at the end of Alien 3 was so wonderfully sad and majestically realised that to have it tarnished by such a lacklustre screw up of a sequel is the real crime. I'd give Alien 3 4/5.

[psychomiker]

I liked Alien 3, it has a good atmosphere in it with great cinematography. I think people were disappointed in it because it wasn't as fast paced as Aliens which is what people were expecting it to be.

[bulletproof]

Love it or hate it,the movie did 172 million worldwide making it the highest grosser of the series.

At least it was not a rehash of Aliens.

[Psychocandy]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bulletproof:
Love it or hate it,the movie did 172 million worldwide making it the highest grosser of the series.

At least it was not a rehash of Aliens.</font>

Wow. I didn't realise it grossed that much. No wonder they made a fourth movie.

[Shadow Whisper]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sheepshaver127:
And Hicks taking over as hero wouldn't have destroyed Ripley's evolution? And the fact that Ripley was given a death sentence but still would not stop hunting the Alien makes her much more than a victim.</font>
Her evolution had been complete by the end of aliens she had been vindicated, she got her revenge, she got a child another child to replace the one she lost, and possibly a new love. Then not only having all that taken away from her but having her being infected by them did make her a victim all over again. She did not comquer them as in aliens but took them with her, it was an act of spite not heroisim. Transitioning to Hicks as the main hero fighting the aliens would have been natural and logical. If you were running earth's millitary who would you send to deal with the next aliens threat ripley or hicks. You would keeep ripley as an advisor but send hicks in to lead the battle against them.

[Sheepshaver127]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shadow Whisper:
Originally posted by Sheepshaver127:
And Hicks taking over as hero wouldn't have destroyed Ripley's evolution? And the fact that Ripley was given a death sentence but still would not stop hunting the Alien makes her much more than a victim.</font>
Her evolution had been complete by the end of aliens she had been vindicated, she got her revenge, she got a child another child to replace the one she lost, and possibly a new love. Then not only having all that taken away from her but having her being infected by them did make her a victim all over again. She did not comquer them as in aliens but took them with her, it was an act of spite not heroisim. Transitioning to Hicks as the main hero fighting the aliens would have been natural and logical. If you were running earth's millitary who would you send to deal with the next aliens threat ripley or hicks. You would keeep ripley as an advisor but send hicks in to lead the battle against them.

Seems to me that Ripley was still standing at the end of Aliens and Hicks was not. So logically I would send the tougher of the two which is Ripley. She started off as an advisor in Aliens but that didn't last too long. And it was more heroism than spite that kept her going. If it was the other way around she might have given the company the alien knowing full well they couldn't control it. But instead she took her own life.

[Shadow Whisper]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sheepshaver127:
Seems to me that Ripley was still standing at the end of Aliens and Hicks was not. So logically I would send the tougher of the two which is Ripley. She started off as an advisor in Aliens but that didn't last too long. And it was more heroism than spite that kept her going. If it was the other way around she might have given the company the alien knowing full well they couldn't control it. But instead she took her own life.</font>

Hicks was wounded protecting Ripley. No millitary would ever put a civillian in charge of a millitary operation no matter how experienced she was with the threat (you have been watching too much star trek the next generation). You also would not send an inexperienced officer like gorman to lead them especialy one that was such a proceduralist. Then again no one thought that there was anything really wrong at the colony, "Its probably just a broken transmitter".

For there to be a hero there has to be somone I care about in the movie. I am not gonna care about the serial rapisits and muderers. After finding out Ripleys condition I did not want to care about her anymore. I could not care if the alien wiped out everyone or got killed. To sumerize I did not care for Alien 3. This made it for me a failuer. The best thing they could have done for alien 3 would have been to buy the rights to a movie called "The Green Slime" and use it as a model for an aliens movie.

[Sheepshaver127]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shadow Whisper:
Hicks was wounded protecting Ripley. No millitary would ever put a civillian in charge of a millitary operation no matter how experienced she was with the threat (you have been watching too much star trek the next generation). You also would not send an inexperienced officer like gorman to lead them especialy one that was such a proceduralist. Then again no one thought that there was anything really wrong at the colony, "Its probably just a broken transmitter".

For there to be a hero there has to be somone I care about in the movie. I am not gonna care about the serial rapisits and muderers. After finding out Ripleys condition I did not want to care about her anymore. I could not care if the alien wiped out everyone or got killed. To sumerize I did not care for Alien 3. This made it for me a failuer. The best thing they could have done for alien 3 would have been to buy the rights to a movie called "The Green Slime" and use it as a model for an aliens movie.</font>

First of all, I don't watch Star Trek. Secondly, Ripley a civilian? Last I checked it was Lt. Ripley and while she was not a military officer she was nonetheless an officer and not a civilian. And let me get this straight you cared for her character in the first two movies but after she found out the alien was in her, you stopped caring? If anything I liked her character more in the 3rd one because I found the situation more interesting. I had no idea what was going to happen and how things were going to conclude. And as for the prisoners you weren't supposed to care about them. They were dark characters and that's all they were supposed to be.

[Antonio]

ALIEN 3 (1992) Directed by David Fincher. This downbeat sequel, the weakest in the “Alien” series, has Ripley (Sigourney Weaver) crash-landing on a dismal planet which houses a penal colony, and once again battles the title creature, who was a stowaway in her getaway spacecraft from the previous film. Also along for the ride are: Charles S. Dutton and Pete Postlethwaite as two of the inmates; Charles Dance as the prison’s doctor (and Ripley’s luckless paramour); and Lance Henriksen in a dual role cameo as mutilated android Bishop, and a newer, but not improved model in the finale. The film’s major flaws are: the poor directorial debut of Fincher (who would later helm the brilliant “Seven”); unsympathetic supporting characters; and the darkest, dimmest lighting I’ve ever seen in this type of film (adding confusion to the prisoners’ already shaky identites...since all of their heads are shaved). The ending, although very dark and depressing, is riveting. My grade: B-

[Sheepshaver127]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Antonio:
ALIEN 3 (1992) Directed by David Fincher. This downbeat sequel, the weakest in the “Alien” series, has Ripley (Sigourney Weaver) crash-landing on a dismal planet which houses a penal colony, and once again battles the title creature, who was a stowaway in her getaway spacecraft from the previous film. Also along for the ride are: Charles S. Dutton and Pete Postlethwaite as two of the inmates; Charles Dance as the prison’s doctor (and Ripley’s luckless paramour); and Lance Henriksen in a dual role cameo as mutilated android Bishop, and a newer, but not improved model in the finale. The film’s major flaws are: the poor directorial debut of Fincher (who would later helm the brilliant “Seven”); unsympathetic supporting characters; and the darkest, dimmest lighting I’ve ever seen in this type of film (adding confusion to the prisoners’ already shaky identites...since all of their heads are shaved). The ending, although very dark and depressing, is riveting. My grade: B-

</font>

I agree with you that this movie is not quite as good as it's predecessors. (But it is close) however the weakest is easily the fourth. From it's mangled mess of a story, to Ripley's superhuman powers (the core of the first three is that she's very ordinary and thrust into these situations) and the casting of Winona Ryder as Call. I really wonder what the hell they were thinking when they cast her. Fincher's bleak vision is easily better than the disgrace which was Resurrection. But to each his own I guess....
I have also heard about Ridley Scott being interested in the 5th and wanting to explain more about the aliens origin. I'm not getting my hopes up yet though.

[Jason13thh]

This film was really boring and I don't like the characters, too.
The best of the serie is certainly Aliens ( Cameron )

[Sheepshaver127]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jason13thh:
This film was really boring and I don't like the characters, too.
The best of the serie is certainly Aliens ( Cameron ) </font>

Boring? How in the world was it boring?

[stevereno]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jason13thh:
This film was really boring and I don't like the characters, too.
The best of the serie is certainly Aliens ( Cameron ) </font>

finally, some one who thinks just like me

SHIVER ME TIMBERS

[Shadow Whisper]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by stevereno:
finally, some one who thinks just like me

SHIVER ME TIMBERS

</font>

You have another.

[Shadow Whisper]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sheepshaver127:
First of all, I don't watch Star Trek. Secondly, Ripley a civilian? Last I checked it was Lt. Ripley and while she was not a military officer she was nonetheless an officer and not a civilian. And let me get this straight you cared for her character in the first two movies but after she found out the alien was in her, you stopped caring? If anything I liked her character more in the 3rd one because I found the situation more interesting. I had no idea what was going to happen and how things were going to conclude. And as for the prisoners you weren't supposed to care about them. They were dark characters and that's all they were supposed to be. </font>

She was indeed a civilian. The Nestormo was a civilian ship owned by a private company. No one wore uniforms or refered to each other by rank. Her rank could explained by two means:

Her rank could exist as part of a comercile lisence system. An x number of years or hours of experice at one position take a test and if you pass your at the next rank. Or it could have be a system entirly desigined by the company.

I stoped care about her character when I knew she was going to die because it took away all the suspence involving her character.

If your not supposed to care about the bulk of the victims why even bother having them?

[stevereno]

i am watching alien 3 right now as i type and i do like the film for these reasons

music(the end song when ripley falls is just right)
the acting(sigourney rocks ass in this one.she should of been nominated)

i didn't like the specail effects.the cheap looking CGI alien pissed me off royally

SHIVER ME TIMBERS

[Sheepshaver127]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shadow Whisper:
She was indeed a civilian. The Nestormo was a civilian ship owned by a private company. No one wore uniforms or refered to each other by rank. </font>

Various levels of command and different types of officers are referred to frequently throughout Alien. In Aliens it is clearly stated that she is a flight officer. And the Nostromo was owned by the company, but whether the company is private or not is never clarified. And so what if nobody wears uniforms (I think you've been watching too much Star Trek) this is Ridley Scott's vision of the future and no uniforms does not mean that there is not a line of command.
I see your point about the commercial license system, but even if this is the case you would no longer be a civilian once the test is passed. So technically she is an officer.
[This message has been edited by Sheepshaver127 (edited 05-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Sheepshaver127 (edited 05-19-2002).]

[Shadow Whisper]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sheepshaver127:
Various levels of command and different types of officers are referred to frequently throughout Alien. In Aliens it is clearly stated that she is a flight officer. And the Nostromo was owned by the company, but whether the company is private or not is never clarified. And so what if nobody wears uniforms (I think you've been watching too much Star Trek) this is Ridley Scott's vision of the future and no uniforms does not mean that there is not a line of command.
I see your point about the commercial license system, but even if this is the case you would no longer be a civilian once the test is passed. So technically she is an officer.
[This message has been edited by Sheepshaver127 (edited 05-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Sheepshaver127 (edited 05-19-2002).]</font>

The American Heritage Dicitionary Second College edition, p128.

Civillian: One not serving as a member of the armed forces.

There are uniforms for some civilian officers, luxury liner and airliner crews. You are right that it would be unlikly that a freighter crew would have uniforms. I dont think I have ever scene a real life image of a freigter of barge crew wearing uniforms. It been a while since I watched either Alien ir Aliens. You may be right about calling by rank, I am thinking tthat there was a a scene were somone just calls Dalls captin, but I dont remember at any other time anyone else being refered to by rank. In Aliens I do remember during Ripleys review board that when they went over the other crew member bios they mention their ranks. I am not arguing that they did not have ranks I was poitning out their informality as evidence that they were civillian. Which they were.

[Sheepshaver127]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shadow Whisper:
The American Heritage Dicitionary Second College edition, p128.

Civillian: One not serving as a member of the armed forces.

There are uniforms for some civilian officers, luxury liner and airliner crews. You are right that it would be unlikly that a freighter crew would have uniforms. I dont think I have ever scene a real life image of a freigter of barge crew wearing uniforms. It been a while since I watched either Alien ir Aliens. You may be right about calling by rank, I am thinking tthat there was a a scene were somone just calls Dalls captin, but I dont remember at any other time anyone else being refered to by rank. In Aliens I do remember during Ripleys review board that when they went over the other crew member bios they mention their ranks. I am not arguing that they did not have ranks I was poitning out their informality as evidence that they were civillian. Which they were.</font>

I see your point. There was something else I thought I had seen that explained her status but I don't feel like sorting through the dvd right now so I'll agree with you.