Rant about the all the Latin and Mexican programs

[someguy]

First off I want to say that I'm not a racist man. Not at all. This rant is not making fun or putting down Latin people and if it's like that then I apologize. Now for the rant.

I've been holding this in for a while and now I'm going to say it. Lately there have been a lot of programs with Latin,Mexican type programs. George Lopez show,Greetings from TUcson(not sure if that's the title),Kingpin,Brothers Garcia,etc. The shows are good and fine but my main beef came when I saw an awards show honouring Latino actors in the industry. I was flipping through the channels and saw Paul Rodriguez on it. I was curious so I watched him. When I watched him he started going on about why aren't Latinos in Spiderman and other recent movies that came out. Sure,I know it was a joke,but it made me so mad when I heard it. I mean they got that awards show,the Latin Grammys and the Latin Emmys coming out soon. They got shows and movies with them,lots of artists in America and getting recognized a lot now for their talent(which I have no problem with,there's a lot of good Latino actors out there). And they still complain? I've seen many people do this but this is the most recent example of it. The fact of getting so much and still not being satisfied always irks me whenever people do it.

I don't want to sound mean at all but my point is that you should be happy with what you got.

[Beeblebrox]

The fact of getting so much and still not being satisfied always irks me whenever people do it.

You're (I'm presuming) a white dude. White dudes have just about everything there is. They run the studios. They dominate the airwaves. They dominate politics and industry.

And that hasn't stopped you from complaining, has it?

[someguy]

That's absolutely true and I agree with you. I was just using that as a point and don't want to come off as racist. I was trying to get a point across and I was using that as an example. That's all.

And yes I'm a white "dude"(I find dude to be a funny word).

[electriclite]

Well, I'm hispanic and I have to agree with someguy to an extent. I don't like the idea of these seperate awards shows for hispanics, I mean people fought for years to prove that this whole "seperate but equal" policy from years back was unconstitutional. I never watch those Latin award shows because I find them ridiculous in terms of principle but not in terms of commerce.
The last census conducted showed that hispanics now outnumber blacks, making us the largest minority in the country. In capitalist terms, this means advertising has a more prominent demographic to serve, which of course means more TV shows with hispanics as central characters and award shows playing towards hispanics as well.


However, despite being a large demographic, now anyways, there is still trouble getting people to see past stereotypes, and still trouble getting more prominent faces in the hispanic community in showbiz. Yes, you can see that there are some TV shows with hispanics in them, but it wasn't easy to get them on, as I'm sure it still isn't easy for hispanic actors to get on TV or in the movies, without being cast into a stereotypical portrayal of how a hispanic person is believed to behave.

Look at blacks, they've come very far but there is of course still bias and racism against them in showbiz. Would you agree with that?

Basically, what you may believe as being the end of the road in terms hispanics "making it", is still really an ongoing journey.

[sharkstank]

i am mexican,and i completely agree with electriclite

[dellamorte dellamore]

This is my bone of contention with " culture " . I thought by now people , human beings would be way past identifying themselves with a certain culture or religion . I could car eless what the heck a person is , i don't even want to know anymore , so long as they are a decent human being , that's my only concern .


I am tired of certain cultures feeling they are being left out . Left out of what , mainstream blockbusters , political office , awards shows . Gey over it , it comes down to the all mighty dollar , Hwood is a business , and they will cast the person they feel will maximize their profits . Is there something wrong with that , i don't think so , if i was funding a film , a big budget one , i would go with the cast that i felt would put asses in the seats . This isn't about so called equality or quotas , this is a business .


Why the hell does anyone from a certain background give a toot wether they are accepted by the so called mainstream anyway . Take the parts you can get , have some patience , and i'm sure eventually it will pay off . But please don't do it because of the blood that flows in your veins , that's so shortsighted and limiting , do it because you feel it's the right thing to do , in a respectable , classy manner . Leave all that other nonsense behind . It's a rare individual that can transcend the programming of " culture " and " race " ( what are they racing against ? ) and become a true , genuine individual . I wish people would stop advertising and hiding behind their " ethnicity , that's probably what irks me the most .


I do agree , and i 've said it before , cute pretty boy white guys are still a major draw , not just in the USA but internationally . Not that there's anything wrong with that , but you can't deny the facts , it's what everyone wants to see in the cinema .



Culture , it's the bane of man's existence , it perpetuates the failures of the previous generations . Ethnic pride is used as a crutch for individuals without their own identity .

[happy OUT here]

Amen, Dellamore! Same goes for sexual preference.....I get SICK of people caring about that stuff.

[Grim H.]

(Disclaimer: The following was written impulsively, and I have not re-read it, I apologize in advance for anyone who may take offense.)
(also, I haven't mentioned movies in this post, but I think this is about so much more...)

Bravo Dellamorte, bravo! Excellent speech, very poetic!

I'm a white guy (obviously) but I like to think of myself as open minded. But I think this culture and racial thing is being taken too far. People won't just let the past be the past. Lawyers that go on and on about their race, as if they deserve compensation for something they weren't involved in. There are no more black slaves in the U.S. "We" didn't put "you" into slavery. "Our ANCESTORS" put "your ANCESTORS" into slavery. You were not a slave. If you're less than forty years old, then you were born into the time equality. And don't complain about racists. Every group has racist individuals. The Black Panthers, the KKK, and the Neo-Nazis. All of these groups are ignorant and moronic. I hope they all die in a gang war somewhere, that would be the end of them. But they don't express the opinions of decent, friendly individuals.

As for race, it should be done away with. It never should have come up in the first place. But because of one error in humanity's past, we are now all raised, programmed even, to see our differences rather then our similarities. The media and hollywood don't help. There's always some movie with some white guy who doesn't get the black culture, and some black guy that won't stop complaining about the fact that everything is white. Examples: National Security, Bringing down the House, Blue Streak, I-Spy, etc. It's films like these that make people keep thinking in racist ways.

It's really said that whenever I take standardized test, there's always a box to check White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, or Other. Other? I don't think I'd like to be classified as an "other." That just doesn't seem right. What's it matter what race I am, these people will never see my face, and my race won't change my test score. Or will it? Not necessarily my score, per se, but rather a rank, compared to the other members of "my" race. Which leads me to my next topic.

Minority scholarships: This is just stupid. I know plenty of intelligent black people who will get into college, but it's not fair that some of them should have to not work as hard as "the majorities" and get to go to college.
Oh, I know right? It's because many of them are poor. Well, money is tight in my household, but that doesn't matter, because obviously, I must be smart enough because I'm white. I'm sorry, but what if I don't get into college on a sholarship, but somebody else who doesn't work as hard as me does, is that fair? Come on, that's like rewarding the half-assed guy but not the over acheiver. Sorry, but if we truly had equality, then this has to go. Everything has to be fair, right? That's what we wanted.

Incedentaly, I was watching a video in my health class, it was talking about all this women's equal rights and things, which I'm all for. It showed old commercials in which women were depicted as house moms and obeyed their husbands, which I thought was wrong.

But then the femenists start yapping, and it's true they are very narrow minded, dispite what they say. They think they should help "their," people, not humanity itself. That's the problem. There's too much emphasis on "what" we are, rather than "who" we are. People think that they represent their race, not an individual. Which is extremely naive. I'm an individual, not the white man.

Scientific evidence exists that men and women are different biologically, not something they can control. But the femenists claim that that's a crock, and that we're all the same. Well, we're not, you have to accept that.

This femenist attorney comes on and starts blabbing about how we need to lower strength tests for such jobs as a fireman. I don't know about you, but when I fail a test, that tells me something, like, I'm not good at this particular thing. It's a fact that in fireman training, women just don't do as good in strength tests, it's not their fault, but lowering standards won't solve this problem. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust my life on someone who barely managed to pass their test, especially after the standards were lowered.

I'll admit it, I'm physically weak, but can I sue someone because I applied for a job that requiered physical labor and didn't get the job? From the femenist perspective it would be ideal. These people are obviously prejudice towards weaklings. Or is it just that I shouldn't be doing this job. I think I'll take the latter and find something I'm actually good at, instead of forcing people to lower their standards until I meet the criteria.

"equal rights" means you can get any job you want, but you have to be good at it. If you're not, you can't just claim discrimination and sue people.

worst of all, this femenist attorney made a statement that if more women made lawsuits when these kinds of things happen, the world would be a better place. In my opinion, that would suck.
I serously doubt this woman ever had a male client, so maybe I could sue her for sexism. But since I'm a good sport I won't.

The point is, rather than helping "your people," help "the people" in general. There are more problems in this world then meeting quotas and suing for discrimination, and yet people still pursue justice for a certain group of people. Is this not discrimination? If we're going to be politically correct, everything must be equal. There can be no more separation of race. No more special channels, shows, and no more quotas. That would seem an ideal solution, right?

Wrong. It has a major flaw. If we get rid of quotas, then we just have to worry about racist employers. And we will always have those, no matter what.

But us white males have problems we also need to fix, we're not immune to this society flaw:

Here's another problem I have. White guys who claim that "the minorities" are taking their jobs away. Whose jobs? White people jobs? I didn't no they had such a thing. You can't take jobs from a particular race, because jobs belong to everyone. No one has taken away the white man's jobs. If anything, we've just never let other races have these jobs. We hog them, and the minute minorities start getting hired, they started "taking away" our jobs. "Our" jobs? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Like I said, if you don't have a job, it's your own fault, nobody has taken it from you.

So to conclude, we should stop worrying about race. There is no race, we are all humans, though many of us fail to see that grand unification, only races, and that we are solely attached to "our race." That's for the simple minded. I'm not wronged every time something bad happens to white people (which rarely happens.) The same as femenists are not intertwined the way they think they are. We are individuals, neither race nor sex. Thus, I decline the label "white," because I'm not just a white man.

I'm an individual....

[dellamorte dellamore]

It's been obvious for a long time now that Women are different than Men biologically . I don't think people needed studies and scientists to tell us that . There are different levels of hormones flowing through their veins and to state the obvious again , they have certain physical attributes that men don't have .


I don't want to go on another rant , because i already said my peace , but with regards to Women , i think there is an important aspect that's overlooked , to the detriment of men women relationships , there is a pronounced spiritual difference , and most men are at odds with it , hence the inability to reconcile with the opposite sex . For the couple that has the right approach and attitude , they can compliment each others innate differences instead of merely undermining each other for some personal gain .



I don't want to get off topic , so i'll leave it at this , there's no reason a woman can't do what men do , for the most part , and i agree standards shouldn't be lowered to accomodate them or anyone else , but if they do pass muster , then i'm all for it . If i'm in a burning building , i don't care if a man or woman comes to save me , i'll be grateful either way . No more or no less .

[Razorblade Smile]

Regarding the Firefighter issue, I agree. Standards should certainly not be lowered. That is a rigorous job that requires a lot of upper body strength. You need to be able to lug 70 lbs. of hose while running at top speed up a stairwell. All this, while wearing an extra 20 lbs worth of heavy clothing (Usually wet). If the person isn't physically capable of handling that criteria, then they shouldn't get the job. You need to be able to reach those extremes or else people die. It's really that simple. I'll be damned if I'm going to feel comfortable with somebody rescuing my loved ones if they can't even hoist a sandbag on their shoulder. And to be honest, I've met PLENTY of women who could probably bench-press a tractor, so the gender aspect of it shouldn't even apply.

Jobs should go to the most qualified. It should never come down to satisfying a quota. Period.

[bowieee]

Originally posted by Razorblade Smile


Jobs should go to the most qualified. It should never come down to satisfying a quota. Period.



Amen.

[Grim H.]

You just summarized my whole rant.

[Seph]

Being a black male, I'd like to chime in, in favor of more Hispanic leads in movies. Basically black people have made this huge strides in the industry and have complained and griped about not getting good roles for years and years and it finally got us somewhere decent. But there are virtually no Hispanic leads in major films outside of Jenny Lopez these days, and Hispanic people actually outnumber black people in America nowadays. They should complain, gripe, whine, whatever. Spiderman takes place in New York, which has a nice, thick Puerto Rican population. Rodriguez can complain about that if he wants to, call attention to the problem. It's the only way the shit gets fixed.

"Culture , it's the bane of man's existence , it perpetuates the failures of the previous generations . Ethnic pride is used as a crutch for individuals without their own identity"

I can't say enough how much I disagree with that. Culture is what defines you, and nobody, absolutely nobody, can say they are a total individual unless they're a fucking hermit. Western culture, ethnic, racial, social cultures, it's inescapable. People in remote villages of South America have their own culture, people in the farthest reaches of the cold north have their own culture. Be it black (which could encompass any number of various African cultures) white (which encompasses a vast number of European and Asian cultures) asian (you get my drift) or what have you, there's nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from and acknowledging the plights and strengths of your predecessors. Ethnic pride isn't a crutch unless you use it as one. Anything can be a crutch if you decide to manipulate other people's perspective of it and your own as well and use it as a crutch. Rich people bitch all the time about how celebrity, fame and fortune burden them, that doesn't make wealth a fucking crutch, it just means that they've tried to twist it into one. Just saying a blanket statement like "ethnic pride is a crutch for individuals without their own identity" is absurd. It doesn't take into account the people who are simply proud of their heritage and don't decide to blame their background for every wrong thing that happens to them. That said too, a lot of foul shit happens to minorities in this and every other country around the world (people claiming racism here is the worst should read up on how Hindu Indians are treated in Pakistan and vice versa).

Culture can be, should be, and ultimately is a wonderful thing that does, in fact, define us all whether we want it to or not. Race is, indeed, a thing created by man to differentiate us moreso than we already are and shouldn't be viewed with such scrutiny at all times, but the actual differences do exist. We're not just all "human," rather we break down into different categories. It's very much like comparing apples and oranges and peaches and strawberries. Yes they're all fruit, no they're not all the same thing. We share some characteristics and others we do not, that isn't something to be persecuted or ignored however, it should be glorified.

"Oh, I know right? It's because many of them are poor. Well, money is tight in my household, but that doesn't matter, because obviously, I must be smart enough because I'm white. I'm sorry, but what if I don't get into college on a sholarship, but somebody else who doesn't work as hard as me does, is that fair? Come on, that's like rewarding the half-assed guy but not the over acheiver. Sorry, but if we truly had equality, then this has to go. Everything has to be fair, right? That's what we wanted."

A remarkably short sighted commentary. The poverty of the actual household is not and never has been the issue. It's the conditions of the schools. No, it's not fair for white kids to be overlooked for scholarships because of minorities, nor is it fair for most urban schools to be so woefully underfunded and pathetically inept at providing a decent education. I will say this, however, getting into a college as a minority coming from such a poor educational background doesn't do you an ounce of good, because once you hit the collegiate levels and start having to write essays in every class save your math and read books that you haven't even heard of with words that look like Greek to you... you're fucked anyway. So basically the minority scholarship thing is in a way a half assed fix, the real solution is cleaning up the high schools, but that's a rant for the NAACP, not you guys. In its favor, however, I will point out, in terms of equality, minority scholarships and Affirmative Action would only work to counter years and years and ongoing practices of what could be termed as reverse Affirmative Action in favor of white people.

About hollywood being a business and that being their motivating factor for excluding races from films, that doesn't seem right. For one thing black people in America can generate millions upon millions of dollars for any and everyone who wants to take advantage of the drawing power. Just look at the music industry. Hip hop is the number one selling genre of music in the country, and it's incredibly popular in various foreign countries as well. And in America the vast majority of popular hip hop artists are black. There's all of one blockbuster white rap artist with any degree of longevity in the history of the music, and that's eminem. And now you have 50 Cent, the most undeniably Negro, thuggish, "please don't take him home to meet the parents" artist to arrive on the scene in a long while, and he opens with the biggest selling debut in music history, almost going platinum in four days. Considering we're of the MTV generation now, this isn't just about the music either. Artists like Eminem, 50 and Nelly are sold just as much on a visual image as they are on the sound (not to mention the boy band pop group types), so the fact is that a minority artist can and often does appeal to the white majority if given the opportunity. Hollywood simply hasn't decided to cash in on this as much as they could. I give you Cradle to the Grave, opening as the #1 movie in America with no white actors in the lead role. It's sold entirely on the strength of Jet Li foremost, and then DMX, and D isn't even "hot" anymore. You have movies like "The...Kings of Comedy," which grossed all kinds of money, has just 4 black guys telling jokes, and often jokes none-to-flattering of white people. On the business end of things in Hollywood certainly black people and Latinos can earn plenty of revenue.

Saying "take the roles given" and give it time and you're sure it will work out is equally ludicrous. If any and everyone who was in an inequitable situation in the world decided to just sit back and let themselves get taken advantage of and pushed around and hope everything will just work itself out... well... all said cultures and races and peoples would eventually wind up somewhere next to the Native American peoples on the endangered species list. That's extreme, yes, but applicable to the situation. Hispanic people now especially have to stand up and speak for themselves now, as they're still so often woefully underused, misrepresented and stereotyped in Hollywood. I know, white people don't want to hear that. I know for many of them it's like "damn, we just went through this shit for years with the blacks, and now that we finally give a couple of them some Oscars to shut them up we have to deal with these Latino motherfuckers." Yes, you do, because as aforementioned, they actually outnumber black people in America today, by a slight million or so.

"They got shows and movies with them,lots of artists in America and getting recognized a lot now for their talent(which I have no problem with,there's a lot of good Latino actors out there)"

Quick, name ten... TEN! ................................................. You said Antonio Banderas didn't you. He's not Latino. He's a Spaniard. European my man. There's a difference. And here's where the offenses come in, and I will be drawing to a close finally. Basically it's like this, minorities get tired of having our cultures used for the benefit of someone else's gain, and then when we want a piece of the pie too it's like "nah, fuck you, I already gave you a few crumbs, be happy I gave you that much." And it's wrong, bottom line. Few people of the majority want to admit such a thing, it does not flatter them, but it's the truth. Now, I'm an inclusive individual, not exclusive by any means. I'm not into separatist mentalities that believe "my culture is my culture, no foreign devils should be allowed to partake of what is ours." I'm all for everyone being a part of everything, getting to sample all DIFFERENT delights the world has to offer. Just give credit where it is due and stop trying to downplay that which is unjust. And then, when you feel downplaying it is no longer effective, you try to eliminate an inherent part of society. CULTURE is not a bane of human existence, GREED is, anyone who's done an ounce of historical research could agree with that. From Ghengis Khan to Hitler to Sadaam to Jefferson Davis and whatever despot, megalomaniac, unscrupulous villain in mankind's history you want to name, his primary motivation is greed. Religion, politics and CULTURE, when they surface, are most often a red herring, because it's easy to get people to join your cause, no matter how vile, if they are lead to believe it is for the good of something they believe in and cherish. Which doesn't mean they should NOT cherish what they are and where they are from and what their predecessors did to get them in the position they are in.

Some people value their culture and explore it and study it more than others. If you don't choose to value your own culture, that's fine, but you shouldn't go so far as to make such an incredibly insensitive, inaccurate and wholly foolish remark as "Culture is the bane of human existence." You shouldn't seek to eliminate such a thing from the world as it is what makes us who we are in this world. Your individuality... it's non existent in the terms you are wishing to present it in. Culture is..."The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and ALL OTHER PRODUCTS OF HUMAN WORK AND THOUGHT CHARACTERISTICS OF A COMMUNITY OR POPULATION..." the fact that you're living where you are, into movies, on a board discussing movies... that's part of the culture you're in. Unless you become a hermit and shun all human contact you will be influenced to some degree or another by culture, and guess what, that's not a bad thing. If you're Jewish, embrace it, Black, embrace it, Hispanic, embrace it... if you're from Ireland, learn about what your predecessors went through to get here... iif you're from Italy or France, be proud of your countries wonderful contributions to the artistic CULTURES of the world... Egyptian, Asian... feel free to learn the nuances of in the deepest, most ancient and earliest civilizations on Earth... you're from Spain or Britain... well, your dick has been running through everybody's country for hundreds of years now, so take pride in how you've influenced present day America to aspire to the same... whatever (that's a low blow, jokey joke, laugh clown....)... and if you DON'T want to embrace your heritage and culture, that's fine to, but don't try to denounce others for having a passion in something so wonderful.

fini...

[Seph]

I would like to add that I do agree about the whole slavery thing. It's foul, it was fucked, it should not be forgotten, but it's also done. I wasn't a slave... my parents weren't... my GRANDPARENTS weren't even slaves, so I won't bitch about it, and I don't gripe about reparations. I would rather black people collectively fight for things pertinent to us as of right now, like racial profiling, hate crimes (no, not the actual law, the actual acts), etc...

[dellamorte dellamore]

You can't expect someone that's shelling out millions of dollars to cast someone from a certain " culture " ( i use quotations for that because i think culture is a mindset who's time is passed ) just to please that particular " culture " . Who says someone that runs a business owes anyone anything . People go into business to make money , maximize profits , it's not a social service where they should pander to everyone , micronesians , icelandeans ( i want to see them ' represented more in films ) , hatians , turkmenistanians , and whoever else is out there .



My irks me is someone defining themselves by their race or culture . It's destructive and limiting , and i could care less where they were born or what language they speak , or what customs they follow just please don't advertise your pride , i'm not impressed .


Spiderman was true to the comics , why should they through in some spanish people to represent NYC , it worked just fine without them . It's a fantasy film , noone said they were going for authenticity , and Raimi isn't obligated to showcase that segment of NYC , he's in charge and it's by his discretion what to leave in the final cut .


That's what frustrates me , when certian people feel they are being oppressed someone by not being " represented " in a cinematic creation , like someone owes them something . Some of these people should be happy they are even here in the first place . Now every imaginable race , religion , and culture are whining about a lack of " representation " by the major studios . Like is aid before , they make what sells , if they thought a black man playing spiderman would be a huge draw , that's who would be in the lead . But the fact is , it wouldn't have made as much , people want to see a clean cut white guy as Spiderman . It's not racist , and noone has a right to demand a black man be in the lead ( unless they are financing it ), it's pure and simple , business .


I get the feelijng that some cultures want to ram their ethnicity or race down my throat , they demand i accept them or like them . Freak , come to me as a man or a woman not a culture and i will have the upmost respect for you .


I choose to see people as human beings and i will base my opinion of them on their actions , all the other stuff is nonsense , the old way .


Another thing about culture that i find disturbing is how people justify their actions as a result of an identification with it . Look at the mid east and the way the treat women , like dung on the bottom of their shoes . Hey , but wait i'm just following through on the programming of my culture or religion . It doesn't make it right and it's a result of a hypnotic impulse to honor that particular culture .



Anyone who identifies with a particular culture is blindly following the failures and mistakes of the previous generations , they aren't free . Only a true rebel will break free from that destructive programming and become the person they were really mean to be , not a carbon copy of their parents or whatever culture traumatized them in their childhood .



If you think cultural pride ( or any kind for that matter ) isn't dangerous , look at all those countries that have gone to war or are currently at war because of this pride . One group thinks they are superior to another and a deep seated hatred boils over all because of religion or culture


The worst current example is Africa , their are entire tribes being wiped out all because of this pride everyone seems to think is something positive . Bosnia , Philipines , India and Pakistan , East Timor , Chechnya , all war zones because of culture and religion .



There will never be peace so long as there is any trace of cultural / religious pride .

[Seph]

I stand in total disagreement still. As aforementioned, cultural/religious beliefs are most often red herrings of evil men primarily motivated by greed... my points and truths stand with no need for reiteration...

"Some of these people should be happy they are even here in the first place"

And with that statement, I must say that I find you intolerably ignorant, self absorbed and yes... RACIST... whether you would be smart enough to realize it or not... I'm not even going to go into depth as to the degree of depravity and idiocy one must be wallowing in to even think this is an okay thing to say. I've known/ still know people like you, and there's no point in arguing. As a wise man stated simply... "don't argue with fools..." But, as long as there are people like you in the world, there will never be peace... and if this gets me kicked off the board... fuck it...

[electriclite]

Originally posted by dellamorte dellamore
Some of these people should be happy they are even here in the first place.



Come again?

I've been taught all my life to strive for more. Being happy with what I got is the vocabulary of a quitter, and therefore not in mine.


Now every imaginable race , religion , and culture are whining about a lack of " representation " by the major studios.


Right, but its ok if studios only relegate certain ethnities to continuing stereotypes?


Like I said before , they make what sells , if they thought a black man playing spiderman would be a huge draw , that's who would be in the lead . But the fact is , it wouldn't have made as much , people want to see a clean cut white guy as Spiderman . It's not racist , and noone has a right to demand a black man be in the lead ( unless they are financing it ), it's pure and simple , business .


I don't think George Lopez was bitching for a John Leguizamo as Spiderman, but for at least to show a hispanic somewhere in the crowd. Raimi doesn't have to travel to Spanish Harlem to do that, we do travel.


And most recently the white character of Kingpin was changed into a black man and it didn't hurt the film. And they didn't change it to a black guy for the sake of changing it to a black guy, it was because he fit the physical characteristics of the character and could act the part.


No one's asking for some really dramatic changes, just a litlte break here and there.

In the film "The Negotiator" both lead parts were written for two white guys, but one of the parts was given to Sam Jackson.

I think that's more what we're asking for. Not special privileges, just an open mind.


I get the feelijng that some cultures want to ram their ethnicity or race down my throat , they demand i accept them or like them . Freak , come to me as a man or a woman not a culture and i will have the upmost respect for you .

I'm getting the feeling that since you've had a bad experience with a few people you've decided to just throw in the towel with culture all together.

Look those people who do use their culture as a crutch are their own problem, but not everyone does this and so therefore culture shouldn't be dismissed because of those negative few.... much like a lot of other things in life.

I know who I am and where I came from and I haven't used my ethnicity as a crutch. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to find people who said I came off as hispanic when they first met me. But when something relating to hispanics comes up (like this) then you'll hear me say something.


Another thing about culture that i find disturbing is how people justify their actions as a result of an identification with it . Look at the mid east and the way the treat women , like dung on the bottom of their shoes . Hey , but wait i'm just following through on the programming of my culture or religion . It doesn't make it right and it's a result of a hypnotic impulse to honor that particular culture .


No that's an impulse to follow the orders of a hypnotic patriarchal religion.
And that same practice goes on in other Christian religions as well, though not as harshly but more subtly, but that's religion's fault, society followed suite after religion.



Anyone who identifies with a particular culture is blindly following the failures and mistakes of the previous generations , they aren't free . Only a true rebel will break free from that destructive programming and become the person they were really mean to be , not a carbon copy of their parents or whatever culture traumatized them in their childhood .

I think what you really mean here is Anyone who blindly identifies with a particular culture is following the failures and mistakes of the previous generations, aren't free


I agree with that. Blindly following anything is wrong.


There will never be peace so long as there is any trace of cultural / religious pride .

See above.

[Seph]

a-fucking-men to electriclite...

[dellamorte dellamore]

I just have couple of things more to say , and then i'm through with this thread , but i want both of you to know that i do appreciate your responses because this is an important subject and i take it seriously .


If George Lopez is so concerned about a lack of representation in S Man , then why doesn't he secure funding and make his own superhero film , like i said before Raimi doesn't owe him or his " race " anything . Even if he hid behind his comments with humor , i have the feeling he was being serious , he really thinks that he has the right to make those demands . He should shut up and go back to making that godawful trifle he calls a sitcom . You're no Seinfeld Mr Lopez , but you can keep on trying . And again , why does Raimi have to show the so called " puerto rican " section of NYC , just to make certain people feel good ?




About people being happy to be here . I mean the people that have emigrated here , they seem to think securing citizenship is a right , it's not , it's a privilege . Then they are going to start complaining about not enough roles in H wood to represent them ? See above , secure your own financing and found your own studio , don't expect , or wait around to be represented by someone else .



Now i agree about the stereotypes that are perpetuated by H wood , they're sickening and repulsive , but who's fault is that ? Not only the studios but the actors and actresses who agree to play these parts .There are plenty of roles out there that don't portray people as a bufoonish stereotype , they should be responsible about the roles they take . But the sad fact is , the mainstream public eats up cliches , to them it's reassuring and familiar . They can feel superior by witnessing someone else's ineptitude or financial difficulty . They think i'm like this and their like that , it's comforting to them to see people in such narrow terms . Now i don't want to see people in these terms , just simply as an actual person , not a ( fill in the blank ) American , or whatever other label people use to group people together . I said before i don't even want to know because i don't care . I don;t even fill out the census forms because it's just another way to label and segregate people . If i did , under race or whatever other category they have for those types of things , i would put down Native American , for the simple fact that i was born here . Or simply United States citizen .

Now i already stated some reasons i think identifying with a particular culture is damaging for the individual and for entire nations , and i could go on and on about this subject , but one more example of the folly of culture and religion is cannibalism . I know it's extreme , and i doubt there are that many left in the year 2003 , but the people that followed that custom were only honoring their culture , the culture justified their actions . Then what about the culture that engages in Genital mutilation ( i don't remember what country ) , again it's seen as something good because of the culture , it's horrific and evil , but to them they are simply honoring their culture . Now , i know these are extreme examples , but i'm just trying to make a point .



On a lighter note , i'll cite food as another example . Most mothers pass down their eating habits to their children or other relatives . Her eating habits ( what she cooks and her attitude towards food ) were passed down by her mother , but it all came from whatever culture they identified with . Now the children grow up eating foods ( in america way too much of it ) that are potentially dangerous to their health and they grow up and pass on what they learned from their mother . They feel obligated to eat certain foods not only to honor their mother , but the culture that spawned those recipes . Now everyone in that particular family eventually succumbs to disease ( heart disease , diabetes , cancer , obesity ) in large part because of the eating habits that were passed down to them , they feel compelled to honor them . Now i know genetics play a part , but probably a much smaller part then the doctors let on . Some women know certain foods are damaging their kids or husband but they hypnotically follow the failures of the previous generations .



In the end , i hope in my lifetime , i get to see a world where culture is non existent , and people don't identify with a particular race , religion , or ethnicity . And i'm really tired of people that i meet for the first time asking what i am , i just tell them a person , and it frustrates them , sometimes confuses .

[Grim H.]

Originally posted by Seph.

A remarkably short sighted commentary. The poverty of the actual household is not and never has been the issue. It's the conditions of the schools. No, it's not fair for white kids to be overlooked for scholarships because of minorities, nor is it fair for most urban schools to be so woefully underfunded and pathetically inept at providing a decent education. I will say this, however, getting into a college as a minority coming from such a poor educational background doesn't do you an ounce of good, because once you hit the collegiate levels and start having to write essays in every class save your math and read books that you haven't even heard of with words that look like Greek to you... you're fucked anyway. So basically the minority scholarship thing is in a way a half assed fix, the real solution is cleaning up the high schools, but that's a rant for the NAACP, not you guys. In its favor, however, I will point out, in terms of equality, minority scholarships and Affirmative Action would only work to counter years and years and ongoing practices of what could be termed as reverse Affirmative Action in favor of white people.


Touche.
As the only black person on this thread, I feel suaded to agree with you on many points.

First of all, I'm fortunate enough to go to a rich school, it's just that my family doesn't pull together that much money.

Okay, I'll agree that culture is a good thing. I'm actually really proud of my Irish heritage. It's race that man created to seperate us. That's the bad thing.

I'll also agree that the urban schools need more funding. My teacher was explaining last week about how our school gets money for doing good on its standardized tests. At that point, a student in my class said "Why don't they give the money to the poorer schools so that they can improve." And it really should. My school doesn't need money. We have enough. The money should go to the schools that need it. It would make sense.

In fact, I really don't disagree with anything you wrote. I really think you opened my eyes to other things I didn't consider.

Originally posted by dellamorte dellamore

There will never be peace so long as there is any trace of cultural / religious pride .

Hmm. I don't think that's true. I think there won't be peace if we can't learn to tolerate each other's cultural or religous pride. Because we'll always have different cultures and religions. And it's important to be proud of what you are and what you believe in. You can have pride in a religion that's not mine, but because of your strong pride, I'll support you.

It's like what Voltaire said.

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it."

That's like what this is. We're different, and we may believe in different things, but we should tolerate, respect, and defend each other. That's the greatest thing about humanity. If, despite our differences we can rise together as one and overcome our hardships, then the world could be a much better place.

Even cultural differences. If we all had the same culture, you might as well go so far as to say we should all have the same likes or dislikes, and then things would be dull. Culture is only a "part" of one's identity, you make up the rest. Because we all have culture. Some of us here are from the "american" culture, and even in America, there are different sub-cultures. I wouldn't want everyone to be the same, because I like looking from the outside-in. I like seeing something new and diffferent. Something which I am not nor ever will be.

Culture is different from race. Race is invented by man to make us seem different. Race is flesh and blood, culture is not. Culture is how we grew up, where we grew up, who we grew up with, our traditions, our pastimes, everything. All of that is something which race cannot dictate.

It's true, we are all different. If not culturally, then in some other form. We all think differently, there must be a reason for that. A world without culture would suck. Because it's interesting to learn about someone else, while someone else learns about you.

It's not cultural unification that will create peace, but rather our ability to understand and tolerate each other's differences.

Because in the end, we can't truly rebel and be different. To try and be different then everyone else is an impossibility, our similarities is what makes us human. It's our differences that make us even more human. We are always going to be pulled back into the flow with the rest of the people who are like us, that's just unavoidable.

Yes dellamorte, even you have a culture, whether you realize it or not.

I'm going to have to agree with Seph on this debate.

Hopefully, in the future, we can tolerate each other's differences and rise above them to lend each other a helping hand...no matter what we are or what we believe in (as long as it's credible.)

[idealdiscountdude]

A rant about all the Mexican/Latin shows?

There are like only 2.5 TV series that have primarily Latino/Mexican casts. George Lopez ,Greetings From Tucson, and the miniseries Kingpin (.5).

Wow 2.5 shows featuring thie ethnic group sure is alot man :o
Considering that 98% of all of the other TV series feature primarily all white casts save an African American sidekick.....

If anything, there are not enough Tv series featuring Latino/Mexican....even African American or Native American actors in primary roles.

HOnestly, I really don't understand the validity to this thread topic....but oh well! :rolleyes:

[free]

Originally posted by Grim H.
Hmm. I don't think that's true. I think there won't be peace if we can't learn to tolerate each other's cultural or religous pride. Because we'll always have different cultures and religions. And it's important to be proud of what you are and what you believe in. You can have pride in a religion that's not mine, but because of your strong pride, I'll support you.


That's just the thing. Most religions have it in there believe system to try and "save" everyone. By this, they are trying to disuade you from what you believe. Look at the Muslim religion, they are praised and glorified if they kill an "infedel" (a non-Muslim). Christians try to make everyone believe in Jesus, and offers rewards (heaven) in exchange for worship, and punishment (hell) for refusal to worship. With so many differences, humanity will never learn to "get along" and respect other believes, because in many religions, it's there "job" on Earth to convert as many people as possible to there believe system.

Now on the topic of quotas. I can understand about the fireman example, but you must remember that most women and minorities aren't even given a chance. I agree that the most qualified should get the job, but most of the time, one really never knows who is the best qualified. A 1700 SAT score and a Masters doesn't nesseccarily make for a good boss. What good is a CEO with a 200 IQ, but falls apart emotionally when it comes to making a stressful decision. The female firefighter may not as much physical power as the male, but she may can keep her head during a crisis, while the male panics.

On to minorities, I'd have to agree with ideal on this one. What information are you basing your opinions? If i made a rant "I'm sick and tired of all the racism in Howdy Dudey", I'd have to have certain facts to support my theory that Howdy Dudey is a racist show.

And lastly, I'm not sure who made it, but some one said that the minorities outta be grateful to be here, and shouldn't complain. Well, it's human nature to try to defend one's self when he or she is repressed. I'm sure many americans were very mad when those "injuns" would'nt get off their land so the "great white man" could take over. You are hear because minorities took over an existing culture, so if you value your life on land, you should go to the first Native American you see, and thank them for what their ancestors allow to happen, and beg them to forgive your ancestors for the atrocities your ancestors inficted on them.