View Full Version : The female screen legends tournament
Hannibal21
03-28-2003, 06:01 AM
Same with the 'male screen legends tournament', expect you're voting for the ladies here. :cool:
The Contenders for the first round:
Dame Judith Anderson
Lauren Bacall
Joan Fontaine
Olivia de Havilland
Kim Novak
Mary Astor
Grace Kelly
Rita Hayworth
Shirley Temple
Elizabeth Taylor
Judy Garland
Greta Garbo
Audrey Hepburn
Ingrid Bergman
Mae West
Marlene Dietrich
Gloria Swanson
Angela Lansbury
Lana Turner
Doris Day
Sophia Loren
Ava Gardner
Celeste Holm
Anne Baxter
Joan Crawford
Vivien Leigh
Eva Marie Saint
Janet Leigh
Claudette Colbert
Barbara Stanwyck
Katharine Hepburn
Bette Davis
Just vote for which actress you think is better, the winners will move onto the second tournament along with more lovely ladies added later on.
FIRST MATCH:
Dame Judith Anderson
vs.
Lauren Bacall
Judith Anderson never ceases to amaze me, but I'm a little 'obsessed' with Lauren Bacall so she gets my humble vote.
Buck Turgidson
03-28-2003, 06:20 AM
"You know how to vote for me, don't you? You just tap my name out on the keyboard..." Lauren Bacall
Damned Martian
03-28-2003, 06:37 AM
La Femme Bacall
idealdiscountdude
03-28-2003, 07:28 AM
Lauren Bacall......great actress!
charliebobo
03-28-2003, 07:30 AM
Lauren Bacall
BadCoverVersion
03-28-2003, 07:59 AM
Lauren Bacall
A.J. Hakari
03-28-2003, 09:15 AM
Lauren
Ren Hoek
03-28-2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by idealdiscountdude
Lauren Bacall......great actress!
Ditto!
screamer581
03-28-2003, 12:25 PM
Lauren Bacall
Nate6
03-28-2003, 01:06 PM
Definitely Lauren Bacall.
Rob Gordon
03-28-2003, 05:52 PM
Lauren Bacall
The Claw
03-28-2003, 07:40 PM
Dame Judith Anderson
dh1989
03-28-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by idealdiscountdude
Lauren Bacall......great actress!
He speaks the truth. Lauren Bacall gets my vote!
[Durden]
03-28-2003, 08:22 PM
Lauren Bacall
mrdeeds
03-29-2003, 11:34 AM
Bacall all the way!
Voodoodoll
03-29-2003, 04:59 PM
Bacall for sure :)
Hannibal21
03-30-2003, 05:34 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Joan Fontaine
vs.
Olivia de Havilland
Two sisters with amazing talent. Words cannot describe how much I LOVE the two. But Olivia is slightly better so she gets my vote. Plus she looked gorgeous (which she always does) at the 75th annual academy awards.
Damned Martian
03-30-2003, 06:52 AM
Joan Fontaine
A.J. Hakari
03-30-2003, 10:32 AM
Olivia
Ren Hoek
03-30-2003, 10:44 AM
Joan Fontaine
charliebobo
03-30-2003, 01:30 PM
Joan Fontaine
asyouwish530
03-30-2003, 01:32 PM
Olivia de Havilland
Nate6
03-30-2003, 05:29 PM
Olivia de Havilland
The Claw
03-30-2003, 06:07 PM
Olivia de Havilland
Tagia_Romero
03-31-2003, 01:25 AM
Olivia deHavilland
Lindsey
03-31-2003, 01:29 AM
Olivia De Havilland
Annie Hall
03-31-2003, 01:31 AM
Olivia de Havilland
Rob Gordon
03-31-2003, 03:54 AM
Olivia de Havilland
mrdeeds
03-31-2003, 03:58 AM
Olivia de Haviland only because she was a red-head. Right?
PrettyInPink
03-31-2003, 07:32 AM
Olivia.
Asokan
03-31-2003, 08:14 AM
Olivia
screamer581
03-31-2003, 08:31 AM
Joan Fontaine
Hannibal21
04-01-2003, 05:00 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Kim Novak
vs.
Mary Astor
Kim Novak I love to no end. She's talented and sexy. She gets my vote.
charliebobo
04-01-2003, 05:06 AM
Kim Novak
Ren Hoek
04-01-2003, 05:52 AM
Kim Novak, baby! :cool:
Damned Martian
04-01-2003, 06:19 AM
Kim Novak
Nate6
04-01-2003, 06:20 AM
I have to agree with the consensus and say Kim Novak.
A.J. Hakari
04-01-2003, 08:26 AM
Kim
asyouwish530
04-01-2003, 09:11 AM
Kim Novak
screamer581
04-01-2003, 12:07 PM
Yep, Kim Novak it is.
bowieee
04-01-2003, 12:40 PM
Kim Novak
Rob Gordon
04-02-2003, 02:38 AM
Mary Astor, and not only for the Maltese Falcon.
Hannibal21
04-02-2003, 04:54 AM
Well, as least Mary Astor got 1 vote. But Kim Novak still dominated!
NEXT MATCH:
Grace Kelly
vs.
Rita Hayworth
My vote goes to Grace Kelly. She was the most beautiful woman in her days and she had so much depth and talent in her.
Ren Hoek
04-02-2003, 04:55 AM
GRACE KELLY
charliebobo
04-02-2003, 05:32 AM
Grace Kelly
A.J. Hakari
04-02-2003, 07:37 AM
Grace
PrettyInPink
04-02-2003, 07:49 AM
Grace Kelly.
Damned Martian
04-02-2003, 08:43 AM
Margarita Cansino
The Claw
04-02-2003, 11:04 AM
Rita Hayworth
screamer581
04-02-2003, 12:09 PM
Grace Kelly
Rob Gordon
04-02-2003, 06:16 PM
Rita Hayworth
Joel_R
04-02-2003, 09:09 PM
Grace Kelly.
Nate6
04-02-2003, 09:44 PM
Rita Hayworth. Grace Kelly, while very good, is overrated.
mrdeeds
04-02-2003, 10:58 PM
Kim Novak
Buck Turgidson
04-02-2003, 10:59 PM
Rita Hayworth.
Grace Kelly was her generation's Nicole Kidman. (And no, that's not a good thing...)
asyouwish530
04-03-2003, 12:06 AM
Rita Hayworth
Hannibal21
04-04-2003, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Grace Kelly was her generation's Nicole Kidman. (And no, that's not a good thing...)
I'm counting the times you've dissed Nicole "Mrs. Hannibal21" Kidman, Buck. Just you remember that. ;)
Grace Kelly won that last round
NEXT MATCH:
Shirley Temple
vs.
Elizabeth Taylor
As much as I ADORE Shirley Temple (there is no child star like her), Elizabeth Taylor is most definitely the better actress here. She's an intense, powerful actress with lots of range. She gets my vote.
A.J. Hakari
04-04-2003, 07:31 AM
Liz Taylor
The Claw
04-04-2003, 08:05 AM
Elizabeth Taylor, i guess.
Ren Hoek
04-04-2003, 08:18 AM
gotta be Liz Tayor!
charliebobo
04-04-2003, 11:30 AM
Liz Taylor
bowieee
04-04-2003, 11:35 AM
Elizabeth Taylor
screamer581
04-04-2003, 01:30 PM
Elizabeth Taylor
Tagia_Romero
04-04-2003, 04:25 PM
The Man-Killer herself, Liz Taylor!
Joel_R
04-04-2003, 04:51 PM
Elizabeth Taylor.
Nate6
04-04-2003, 05:18 PM
Elizabeth Taylor is obviously more talented.
Moviefan1234
04-04-2003, 05:19 PM
Elizabeth Taylor
James Logan
04-04-2003, 05:32 PM
Sympathy vote to Shirley Temple. :D
Hannibal21
04-06-2003, 06:24 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Judy Garland
vs.
Greta Garbo
My vote goes to Judy Garland.
Ren Hoek
04-06-2003, 06:34 AM
Greta Garbo
Moviefan1234
04-06-2003, 07:19 AM
Judy Garland
charliebobo
04-06-2003, 09:15 AM
Greta Garbo
Nate6
04-06-2003, 10:00 AM
Greta Garbo
A.J. Hakari
04-06-2003, 10:15 AM
Greta
MikeyB
04-06-2003, 11:49 AM
Greta Garbo
Rob Gordon
04-06-2003, 10:00 PM
Garbo
screamer581
04-06-2003, 11:05 PM
Greta Garbo
BadCoverVersion
04-06-2003, 11:11 PM
Garbo
ColinM
04-06-2003, 11:18 PM
Judy Garland. Poor girl's getting slaughtered...
Hannibal21
04-07-2003, 06:31 AM
BUMP
Buck Turgidson
04-07-2003, 06:34 AM
Judy Garland
Damned Martian
04-07-2003, 02:18 PM
Greta Garbo
asyouwish530
04-07-2003, 02:51 PM
Greta Garbo
Hannibal21
04-08-2003, 06:42 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Audrey Hepburn
vs.
Ingrid Bergman
As much as I loooooooooove Audrey Hepburn, I have to say that Ingrid Bergman is the better actress. She was unfairly snubbed of a oscar nomination for CASABLANCA (my favorite female performance of all time), she was fantastic in Gaslight, Anastasia, Spellbound, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Notorious, Murder on the Orient Express and much much more. Ingrid is a beautiful and perfect actress. My vote goes to her.
A.J. Hakari
04-08-2003, 07:52 AM
Audrey
Kastman
04-08-2003, 08:18 AM
Ingrid Bergman
Damned Martian
04-08-2003, 08:55 AM
Audrey
charliebobo
04-08-2003, 09:50 AM
So hard to choose... Ingrid
screamer581
04-08-2003, 09:52 AM
Audrey Hepburn
BadCoverVersion
04-08-2003, 10:21 AM
Ingrid Bergman
Ren Hoek
04-08-2003, 11:54 AM
Ingrid Bergmann. I like Audrey Hepburn, but Ingrid is the embodiment of the words 'SCREEN LEGEND' :)
Moviefan1234
04-08-2003, 05:28 PM
Audrey Hepburn
mrdeeds
04-08-2003, 09:49 PM
Ingrid Bergman
POLYDISTORTION
04-08-2003, 09:50 PM
Ingrid
Joel_R
04-08-2003, 10:51 PM
Audrey Hepburn.
Buck Turgidson
04-09-2003, 01:06 AM
Ingrid Bergman
Hannibal21
04-09-2003, 07:14 AM
Bumparino
Anyone else care to vote?
Ingrid is beating Audrey right now with 9 votes. Audrey has 5.
:)
asyouwish530
04-09-2003, 04:22 PM
Ingrid Bergman
Hannibal21
04-10-2003, 07:36 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Mae West
vs.
Marlene Dietrich
For some reason I could never enjoy Marlene in her movies, but I absolutely looooooooooooove that sexy mama Mae West.
CheekyShepherd
04-10-2003, 07:46 AM
I agree with you Hannibal,
That sexy beast Mae it must be!
Ren Hoek
04-10-2003, 08:11 AM
Marlene Dietrich
Damned Martian
04-10-2003, 10:05 AM
Marlene Dietrich
asyouwish530
04-10-2003, 12:12 PM
Mae West
screamer581
04-10-2003, 12:24 PM
Marlene Dietrich
bowieee
04-10-2003, 12:44 PM
Mae West
A.J. Hakari
04-10-2003, 12:59 PM
Marlene
charliebobo
04-10-2003, 01:29 PM
Marlene
MikeyB
04-10-2003, 02:22 PM
Mae West
scottish-movie-freak
04-10-2003, 03:15 PM
Marlene
Rob Gordon
04-11-2003, 06:11 AM
Marlene Dietrich
Tagia_Romero
04-11-2003, 09:17 AM
Aww man I worship these ladies! Their my inspirations!!!!
Marlene by not even a folicle
Nate6
04-11-2003, 03:08 PM
Marlene
ColinM
04-11-2003, 08:53 PM
Mae West here
SubMethod
04-11-2003, 10:08 PM
Mae West
Hannibal21
04-12-2003, 12:45 AM
Marlene won that round 9-7
NEXT MATCH
Gloria Swanson
vs.
Angela Lansbury
Love both of them. But I'll go with Angela for her performance in The Manchurian Candidate (10/10).
A.J. Hakari
04-12-2003, 12:57 AM
Angela
MikeyB
04-12-2003, 01:25 AM
Angela
charliebobo
04-12-2003, 04:13 AM
Angela Lansbury
XpatrickX
04-12-2003, 04:16 AM
Angela Lansbury
Damned Martian
04-12-2003, 05:28 AM
Angela Lansbury
Nate6
04-12-2003, 11:19 AM
Angela Lansbury
MickeyKnox
04-12-2003, 02:03 PM
Angela Lansbury
SubMethod
04-12-2003, 07:24 PM
Angela
Ren Hoek
04-12-2003, 08:21 PM
Angela Lansbury
Rob Gordon
04-12-2003, 08:38 PM
Gloria Swanson ... what?
Tagia_Romero
04-12-2003, 10:55 PM
Miss Lansbury
screamer581
04-12-2003, 11:25 PM
Angela Lansbury
mrdeeds
04-13-2003, 02:13 PM
Angela Lansbury
Hannibal21
04-14-2003, 07:46 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Lana Turner
vs.
Doris Day
Lana Turner gets my vote. It just kills me that she isn't on the AFI's 50 stars list.
A.J. Hakari
04-14-2003, 07:48 AM
Lana
charliebobo
04-14-2003, 08:08 AM
Lana Turner... I'm not a big Doris Day fan
Damned Martian
04-14-2003, 08:32 AM
Lana Turner
Ren Hoek
04-14-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by charliebobo
Lana Turner... I'm not a big Doris Day fan
Same here! Lana Turner gets my vote.
BadCoverVersion
04-14-2003, 09:52 AM
Lana Turner.
Doris Day bugs the shite out of me.
screamer581
04-14-2003, 11:04 AM
Lana Turner. I am glad I am not the only one that didn't like Doris Day too much.
Ghostface 2000
04-14-2003, 11:23 AM
Lana Turner
Nate6
04-14-2003, 02:59 PM
Doris Day
Tagia_Romero
04-14-2003, 06:54 PM
Miss Turner
MikeyB
04-14-2003, 08:06 PM
Lana Turner
bowieee
04-14-2003, 08:47 PM
Lana Turner
mrdeeds
04-15-2003, 02:09 AM
Lana Turner
happy OUT here
04-15-2003, 06:06 AM
Doris Day
Hannibal21
04-15-2003, 06:31 AM
Bump
Hannibal21
04-16-2003, 06:33 AM
13-2. Lana Turner wins!
NEXT MATCH:
Sophia Loren
vs.
Ava Gardener
I vote for Sophia who is a stunning looking, extremely talented actress and she never looks old. No actress has aged better.
A.J. Hakari
04-16-2003, 07:45 AM
Sophia
Damned Martian
04-16-2003, 08:24 AM
Ava Gardner
Ren Hoek
04-16-2003, 08:31 AM
Sophia Loren
BadCoverVersion
04-16-2003, 10:28 AM
Sophia Loren
idealdiscountdude
04-16-2003, 11:45 AM
Ava Gardner
screamer581
04-16-2003, 12:41 PM
Sophia Loren
Nate6
04-16-2003, 02:32 PM
Ava Gardner
Tagia_Romero
04-17-2003, 05:45 AM
Sophia Loren
CheekyShepherd
04-17-2003, 07:06 AM
It's gotta be Ava.
Hannibal21
04-18-2003, 06:47 AM
BUMP
Ghostface 2000
04-18-2003, 07:49 AM
Sophia Loren
mrdeeds
04-18-2003, 04:58 PM
Ava Gardner
asyouwish530
04-18-2003, 05:57 PM
Ava Gardner
MickeyKnox
04-18-2003, 05:59 PM
Sophia Loren
Hannibal21
04-19-2003, 05:55 AM
NEST MATCH:
Celeste Holm
vs.
Anne Baxter
I love Celeste Holm so much. She seems like a nice, funny person and she's a really talented actress, she gets my vote!
Damned Martian
04-19-2003, 06:01 AM
Anne Baxter
Ren Hoek
04-19-2003, 08:26 AM
Haven't seen many of her films, but CELESTE HOLM was very good in The Snake Pit and gets my vote.
A.J. Hakari
04-19-2003, 08:44 AM
Celeste
MikeyB
04-19-2003, 08:45 AM
Celeste Holm
Nate6
04-19-2003, 08:49 AM
Ann Baxter
SubMethod
04-19-2003, 10:03 PM
Ann Baxter
Hannibal21
04-20-2003, 12:50 AM
BUMP
mrdeeds
04-20-2003, 02:33 AM
Anne Baxter
Outlaw_x
04-20-2003, 04:05 AM
Anne Baxter
Ghostface 2000
04-20-2003, 07:11 AM
Ann Baxter
Hannibal21
04-21-2003, 07:01 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Joan Crawford
vs.
Vivien Leigh
I vote for Leigh because I have a feeling she's going to lose and I LOVED her in Gone with the Wind, A Streetcar Named Desire, etc.
A.J. Hakari
04-21-2003, 07:50 AM
Vivien
Damned Martian
04-21-2003, 08:31 AM
Joan Crawford
Ren Hoek
04-21-2003, 09:02 AM
Joan Crawford, because she's excellent in one of my favourite movies (What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?). And Vivien Leigh... well, she isn't ;)
Ghostface 2000
04-21-2003, 09:16 AM
Joan Crawford
screamer581
04-21-2003, 04:26 PM
Joan Crawford
MikeyB
04-21-2003, 05:51 PM
Joan Crawford
bowieee
04-21-2003, 08:39 PM
Vivien Leigh
Joel_R
04-21-2003, 09:23 PM
Vivien Leigh.
Nate6
04-21-2003, 09:24 PM
Vivien Leigh
Rob Gordon
04-21-2003, 10:15 PM
Vivien Leigh
RickySlade
04-21-2003, 10:16 PM
Joan Crawford
Outlaw_x
04-22-2003, 12:35 AM
Joan Crawford
mrdeeds
04-22-2003, 01:04 AM
Vivian Leigh
Tagia_Romero
04-22-2003, 05:14 AM
Vivien Leigh (pity she was quite insane by the end of her life)
Hannibal21
04-22-2003, 06:37 AM
Vivien Leigh wins 9-7.
NEXT MATCH:
Eva Marie Saint
vs.
Janet Leigh
I vote for Eva, who is excellent and I LOVED her performance in 'On the Waterfront'.
Ghostface 2000
04-22-2003, 06:41 AM
yeah definatly Eva
Ren Hoek
04-22-2003, 06:45 AM
Eva Marie Saint
asyouwish530
04-22-2003, 09:51 AM
Eva Marie Saint
dh1989
04-22-2003, 10:17 AM
Janet Leigh!
A.J. Hakari
04-22-2003, 01:04 PM
Janet
screamer581
04-22-2003, 02:01 PM
Eva Marie Saint
ColinM
04-22-2003, 04:44 PM
I vote for Eva.
charliebobo
04-22-2003, 07:07 PM
Eva Marie Saint
mattjk_17
04-22-2003, 07:32 PM
Janet Leigh
The Claw
04-22-2003, 08:22 PM
Janet Leigh
MikeyB
04-22-2003, 09:19 PM
Eva Marie Saint
Nate6
04-22-2003, 09:48 PM
Eva
Rob Gordon
04-23-2003, 12:24 AM
Janet Leigh
Hannibal21
04-23-2003, 06:30 AM
BUMP
Tagia_Romero
04-23-2003, 07:07 AM
Eva Marie Saint
BadCoverVersion
04-23-2003, 08:13 AM
Eva Marie Saint
Damned Martian
04-23-2003, 11:10 AM
Janet
Hannibal21
04-24-2003, 06:07 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Claudette Colbert
vs.
Katharine Hepburn
Let's see........Morning Glory, The Philadelphia Story, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, Stagedoor, Adam's Rib, Bringing Up Baby, The African Queen, The Lion in Winter, On Golden Pond, etc.etc.etc. It's clearly that Kate Hepburn is a LEGEND, she will always be one of the best, one of the greatest, one of the most classiest and beautiful actress of all time.
Moviefan1234
04-24-2003, 06:25 AM
Katharine Hepburn
Horror whore
04-24-2003, 06:38 AM
Katharine Hepburn
Rob Gordon
04-24-2003, 08:21 AM
Katharine Hepburn
asyouwish530
04-24-2003, 09:24 AM
Claudette Colbert
Damned Martian
04-24-2003, 09:44 AM
KH
A.J. Hakari
04-24-2003, 05:53 PM
Kathy
MikeyB
04-24-2003, 06:29 PM
Katharine Hepburn
Nate6
04-24-2003, 07:27 PM
I definitely have to give this one to the inimitable Katherine Hepburn.
bowieee
04-24-2003, 10:02 PM
Katharine Hepburn
Hannibal21
04-25-2003, 05:57 AM
BUMP
screamer581
04-25-2003, 12:19 PM
Katharine Hepburn
The Other
04-25-2003, 09:15 PM
Katharine Hepburn
I've only seen Claudette Colbert in IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT in which she was excellent in. I've seen Hepburn in quite a few films, not a lot, but I've always thought Hepburn had such demanding screen-presense. She just dominates her scenes.
Hannibal21
04-26-2003, 05:49 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Barbara Stanwyck
vs.
Bette Davis
BETTE DAVIS is my number one favorite actress of all time. She dominates the scenes in every movie she's in, she has powerful demanding screen presence and it's just FLAWLESS. I prefer over ANY actress, dead or alive, in Hollywood.
Ren Hoek
04-26-2003, 07:25 AM
Sometimes it's frightening how much I agree with Hannibal when it comes to classic movies and actors/actresses ...I vote for BETTE DAVIS, my all-time favourite actress! :)
Damned Martian
04-26-2003, 07:48 AM
Bette
Ghostface 2000
04-26-2003, 08:28 AM
Bette
A.J. Hakari
04-26-2003, 09:07 AM
Barbara
ColinM
04-26-2003, 02:30 PM
The extremely talented Bette Davis.
screamer581
04-26-2003, 02:39 PM
She's got Bette Davis eyes.
MikeyB
04-26-2003, 02:46 PM
Bette Davis
Nate6
04-26-2003, 04:16 PM
Barbara Stanwyck
Hannibal21
04-27-2003, 05:56 AM
Bump ;)
charliebobo
04-27-2003, 02:34 PM
Bette Davis
The Other
04-28-2003, 12:14 AM
Barbara Stanwyck
Hannibal21
04-28-2003, 05:59 AM
NEXT MATCH:
Marilyn Monroe
vs.
Dorothy Dandridge
I LOVE Marilyn Monroe so much. She's fun, sexy and extremely talented. She's also in one of my favorite films: Some Like it Hot.
Horror whore
04-28-2003, 06:39 AM
Marilyn Monroe
Ren Hoek
04-28-2003, 07:00 AM
Dorothy made two or three good movies, but Marilyn Monroe is a true legend. :)
charliebobo
04-28-2003, 07:33 AM
Marylin Monroe
A.J. Hakari
04-28-2003, 07:41 AM
Marilyn
BadCoverVersion
04-28-2003, 07:42 AM
Monroe.
Praise JC...Bette WON, and I bloody missed it!!!
Damned Martian
04-28-2003, 08:02 AM
Marilyn
Moviefan1234
04-28-2003, 05:22 PM
Marilyn Monroe
The Other
04-28-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by RenHoek
Dorothy made two or three good movies, but Marilyn Monroe is a true legend. :)
I agree, completely.
screamer581
04-28-2003, 05:57 PM
Marilyn Monroe
ColinM
04-28-2003, 11:40 PM
Gotta vote for Norma Jean!!!
Hannibal21
04-29-2003, 12:15 AM
It's a no brainer. Marilyn EASILY dominated.
NEXT MATCH:
Deborah Kerr
vs.
Greer Garson
Greer Garson is a fantastic actress and her performance in Mrs. Miniver was breathtaking. However, I'm going to have to vote for Miss Deborah Kerr, I had feelings for her growing up. ;)
A.J. Hakari
04-29-2003, 12:17 AM
Deborah
screamer581
04-29-2003, 12:29 AM
Deborah Kerr
ColinM
04-29-2003, 12:37 AM
Deborah
mrdeeds
04-29-2003, 01:32 AM
Deborah Kerr
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