MARILYN MANSON - The Golden Age of Grotesque

[Elgyn]

So what do you think? I haven`t really listened to it enough to fairly judge it yet, but so far I don`t think it`s as good as his last two albums ("Mechanical Animals" and "HolyWood").

For one thing the songwriting seems to have taken a step backwards from the quality of songs on the last two records. For example the chorus to "mOBSCENE" goes "we came to see the mobscnene/I know it isn`t your scene/It`s better than a sex scene/It is so fucking obscene"
Yikes, who wrote that, a kid in junior-high? I thought Manson had progressed past these kinds of silly lyrics.

Also, I`m not really digging this "Twisted Moulin Rougue" kind of atmosphere that Manson is going for here.

Oh and I know Skold helped-out on this one, does anyone else think "This Is The New Shit" sounds just like recent KMFDM?

[JustOneFix]

I agree. The whole album is an unimaginative sequence of bland beats and loops without musical hooks and below average singing. Grotesque is definitely a "one step forward and two steps back" for Manson.

[Sigur509]

What I have heard so far, I have enjoyed.

[Kastman]

i havent heard the album, i have only heard "mobscene", and it sucked, although the chorus part was okay, the verses and stuff were bad.

[Septicfish]

I just bought the album and it Rules!!! It's somewhat different to the likes of Holywood and the rest but each album he brings out has a different theme anyway - he said it himself!!!

Marilyn Manson Rules!!! :D

[Haddonfield]

saw the video for mobscene last night...well...im not diggin his new theme that much either but Im going to give the new album a shot. Has to me better than HollyWood right?

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by Haddonfield

Has to me better than HollyWood right?


Why does everyone hate "HolyWood"? It is his BEST album, folks! The songwriting is the best on that album, just the right amount of "angry" songs (a'la "Antichrist Superstar") and just the right amount of "sad" songs (a'la "Mechanical Animals").
Plus the production is great, and the band sounds SLAMMIN`!

In fact, listening to "Golden Age" just makes me think of how much better "HolyWood" was.

[chandler_bing905]

Originally posted by Elgyn
In fact, listening to "Golden Age" just makes me think of how much better "HolyWood" was.

EXACTLY, couldn't ahve said it better myself. In fact, i typed the exact same thing this morning, but i didn't have time to post the message. I dont' know what happened, but he needs to seriosuly figure out what kidna music he wants to make. I mean, i defended him to people because I think Hollywood is very well written and produced. Then, of course, he comes out like this, and i look like an ass.

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by chandler_bing905

I dont' know what happened, but he needs to seriosuly figure out what kidna music he wants to make.


I have a sneaky suspician that he decided to "dumb it down" on purpose, after "HolyWood" failed (sales-wise).

IMO I think the same thing happened with Smashing Pumpkins and "Machina" (after "Adore" bombed).

[Septicfish]

Originally posted by Elgyn
Why does everyone hate "HolyWood"? It is his BEST album, folks! The songwriting is the best on that album, just the right amount of "angry" songs (a'la "Antichrist Superstar") and just the right amount of "sad" songs (a'la "Mechanical Animals").
Plus the production is great, and the band sounds SLAMMIN`!

In fact, listening to "Golden Age" just makes me think of how much better "HolyWood" was.

Agree with you on Holywood being the best album, but I'm glad that it's different - I'd probably get bored of it much quicker if it was similar to Holywood and the others...

...mind you, if it was too different, which I don't think it is, then it wouldn't be Manson... hum...

If you're looking to buy it, then get it!!!:D

[Haddonfield]

I disagree...Antichrist to me is his best work. Its a pure "horroh movie" type of album. Every song on it is damn good. The Deflecting God, Deformography, Kinderfeld, 1996, Dried Up, Tied And Dead To The World, and Little Horn are some major impressive tunes. Not one bad song on the album with Mister Superstar being the weakest.

I listen to "Portrait" more than "Holy Wood" To me it just sounds like he was too wrapped up in the Columbine shootings..which is fine because they blamed his ass for it. But it didnt connect with me at all. Not to say it doesnt have some good songs, Cruci-fiction in Space is my fave while The Fight Song and Disposable Teens are solid. but the rest doesnt really click.

Ill be picking up the new one after work today (payday that god!!!) Hopefully I will like it.

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by Haddonfield



"Holy Wood" To me it just sounds like he was too wrapped up in the Columbine shootings..which is fine because they blamed his ass for it. But it didnt connect with me at all.


Yes a good bit of "HolyWood" was about the Columbine ordeal, but to me that just makes the music more effective, because he`s singing about something real that he was dealing with.

KMFDM also had an awesome song about Comumbine (they got blamed just as bad as Manson), it`s called "Witchhunt" and it was on the 'mdfmk' record.

[Psychocandy]

I own both Holy Wood and Mechanical Animals and I think they are equally strong as albums. They are quite different. I enjoy the glam rock vibe of Mechanical Animals and the intelligent anger of Holy Wood equally but they both appeal to different parts of my musical mindset. I've yet to hear The Golden Age Of The Grotesque but will report back soon as I do. That'll be soon(ish).

[Haddonfield]

ok, after 5 spins of "Golden Age" I have to say...


Where have you gone Trent???????


This album is CERTAINLY more "user friendly".....but where is the edge? Manson has become predictable BIG TIME! Im sorry but I hold this guy up to Antichrist Superstar. That album is some down right fantastic god damn music. Mechanical Animals grew on me but damn has he become stale. Not to say that this album is shite. It certainly is more pop rock than the last so sure he may sell a few more, but again, where is the edge? I have to say that I am dissapointed. BIG TIME!

"Bang if you want it" he screams....well id like to bang you in your damn head! How can a guy who gave us The Deflecting God not even come close in 3 albums? Was ist all Trent? Im begining to wonder. This is pop rock. I dont want Manson pop...I want somthing that is dark, disturbing, and fucked...just like his first 3 albums...

I wont wright him off just yet, but he is getting close...from the predictable "intro" song to pretty much nothing. There is some decent top 40 tunes but overall I am not impressed. Again I hold him to "Antichrist" standards, shite, even "Portait" and im sorry, but this sounds a whole like like "M.A." to me.....give me a few weeks and I might chage my mind as far as this turky goes...but it sure aint what ive been expecting since 1996.

[Haddonfield]

ok...

after a few more days and seeing what I posted I will say I was a bit harsh.

This album is the most fluffed up version of Manson we have seen. MA might have been glam but at least there was still some substance...not to say that this doesnt have any but this is a Marilym Manson POP album.

The first half is pretty catchy with some good one liners.."Ive got an F and a C and the K too, and the only thing thats missing is a bitch like U"...."this isnt music, were not a band, were just five middle fingers on a mutherfucking hand"...thats some good stuff. There are hints of pretty much every one of his other albums here. Use your fist is solid and he finally says a few things about hating yourself again! has a nice "Antichrist" vibe. (s)AINT is so far my fave....again I hear pretty much every thing he has done but It sure is watered down...and whats with all the almost rap like lyrics? sure they are catchy and fun but its certainly strange to hear him to it.

Overall, its not bad. I like it. it just seems like Manson-lite. cant please em all I guess...when the shock wears off what was he supposed to do?...oh yeah, try and shock again with HolyWood. didnt work....so we get his pop album...so ill just be singing "Doll-dagga buzz-buzz ziggety-zag Got my grotesque burlesque drag" for the next month!!!! it is pretty catchy...:)

[Septicfish]

Originally posted by Haddonfield
ok...

after a few more days and seeing what I posted I will say I was a bit harsh.

This album is the most fluffed up version of Manson we have seen. MA might have been glam but at least there was still some substance...not to say that this doesnt have any but this is a Marilym Manson POP album.

The first half is pretty catchy with some good one liners.."Ive got an F and a C and the K too, and the only thing thats missing is a bitch like U"...."this isnt music, were not a band, were just five middle fingers on a mutherfucking hand"...thats some good stuff. There are hints of pretty much every one of his other albums here. Use your fist is solid and he finally says a few things about hating yourself again! has a nice "Antichrist" vibe. (s)AINT is so far my fave....again I hear pretty much every thing he has done but It sure is watered down...and whats with all the almost rap like lyrics? sure they are catchy and fun but its certainly strange to hear him to it.

Overall, its not bad. I like it. it just seems like Manson-lite. cant please em all I guess...when the shock wears off what was he supposed to do?...oh yeah, try and shock again with HolyWood. didnt work....so we get his pop album...so ill just be singing "Doll-dagga buzz-buzz ziggety-zag Got my grotesque burlesque drag" for the next month!!!! it is pretty catchy...:)

I saw in an interview that he listens to "Ludacris" because he loves his style and the wacky lyrics!! I'm guessing he wanted to try to do something like that....

...I must admit, I too noticed a rap-like vibe in some of his songs (can't think of any right now - have only heard the album three times) :D

-ED-

[platozorba]

I want my money back !!!!

[HannibalGuy]

I love Manson and all of him albulms, and this one is not his best, but it's good. There are some good ones, and some bad ones. The new look he is going for is interesting. So is the swing dancing in the "mOBSCENE" video. I dont think Holy Wood is terrible. I loved that he went back to the Antichrist Superstar look on that one. I also thought that Mechanical Animals was good too("Come White" is a great song). Also, who has watched the DVD, "Doppelhertz"? It's an incredibly fucked-up short film that Manson directed. It's good, but very weird. Oh, his girlfriend, Dita Von Tesse is hot!

[Haddonfield]

after a week now I am changing my tune...I admit it, this one (s)aint half bad. the first 7 songs are very very good...use your fist is very very good...a few clunkers but while I may not be impressed, it is all thats been playing in my yard now for a week and I dont see thats stopping anytime soon....good pop manson album.

[Septicfish]

Originally posted by HannibalGuy
I love Manson and all of him albulms, and this one is not his best, but it's good. There are some good ones, and some bad ones. The new look he is going for is interesting. So is the swing dancing in the "mOBSCENE" video. I dont think Holy Wood is terrible. I loved that he went back to the Antichrist Superstar look on that one. I also thought that Mechanical Animals was good too("Come White" is a great song). Also, who has watched the DVD, "Doppelhertz"? It's an incredibly fucked-up short film that Manson directed. It's good, but very weird. Oh, his girlfriend, Dita Von Tesse is hot!

I was waitng for someone to mention "Doppelhertz". All I can say is... is.... Sh*t man, what the f*ck is up with that DVD?? It suits his image but to me seemed pretty pointless... still, it's cool to own :D

By the way, definately agree with you on Manson's bird Dita Von Tesse!!! She's fit as F*CK!! :D If anyone knows any links to pics of her, I would be very greatful...:D

-ED-

[Haddonfield]

"I am a dandy in the ghetto with a snow white smile
Super ego-bitch, I've been evil a while

What's my name? What's my name?
Ah-ah, Ah-ah
Hold the S because I am an ain't"


.....This song comes freakin close to The Deflecting God....DAMN GOOD!

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by Haddonfield

How can a guy who gave us The Deflecting God not even come close in 3 albums?

Was ist all Trent?


Dude I notice you mention "The Reflecting God" a lot, like it`s the pinnacle of Manson`s achievements.
Just FYI, that song is very very similar to an old NIN song called "Burn" from the "Natural Born Killers" soundtrack. It`s almost the same exact beat. And the end of the song where he`s chanting "no salvation/no forgiveness" sounds very similar to the second half of "Just Admit It" by Jane`s Addiction (which oddly enough was also on the "NBK" soundtrack).
I like the song too, I`m just sayin`, it wasn`t really that original or anything.

As for Trent`s involvement, well "Mechanical Animals" and "HolyWood" both had no input from Trent, and they were both better than "Antichrist" IMO. So I don`t think at all that Manson NEEDS Trent.

------------------------------------------------
As for "Golden Age", I`ve listened to it a lot more lately, and I still don`t particulary like it. I mean, it`s alright, but I think I`d rank it as Manson`s weakest effort (even below "Portrait").
I think my main problem is that I can see what Mason is trying to achieve here (a gothic burlesque), but he only REALLY gets it right on two songs, the title track and "Doll-Dadda-Ziggitty-Zag" (or whatever it`s called). Now THAT song is awesome, and has the 'oomph' of past efforts. If only the whole album could`ve had the inventiveness and energy of that one song.
As it is, most of the album sounds like B-sides to me.

P.S. - Has anyone seen the reviews "Golden Age" is getting at Amazon.com? YIKES, like every single review says it`s his best album ever! Either this album is great and I`m not "getting it" for some reason, or the reviewers at Amazon are hardcore Manson devotees that refuse to admit the new album isn`t "all that".

[Haddonfield]

Elgyn...

If we want to talk being original...Manson isnt very much at all in some ways...Alice Cooper, David Bowie...all did this thing in thier own way before him...and yes NIN is a big influence on Manson....and I am very aware of The Deflecting God sounding simular to others...the whole "shoot,shoot,shoot, motherfucker" line is almost a direct rip...but whats really new now a days? Manson just put his own spin on it...Basicly I just like how the guy sings or screams or chants or whatever he does...!

I concider the entire Antichrist album as his pinnacle and that one song happens to stand out for me ahead of other fantastic songs. and im going to say something I never thought I would...Golden Age is his 2nd best behind Antichrist....did I just say that? There is something here about it that is driving me nuts. I was HARD on this at first but I tend to do that with bands I like....I was thinking that this is now album number 3 without Trent and I was wondering if the genius that was Antichrist was all him...and while Golden Age is no Antichrist, it is a fun, catchy, satire of an album...thats the trick here...he is making fun of himself, his peers, and the music business..I think?!?

I did Mechanical Animals very much but feel that HolyWood is very subpar...but im digging that satire he went with here....:)

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by Haddonfield

thats the trick here...he is making fun of himself, his peers, and the music business..I think?!?



Yes I believe so. I know for sure he wrote "(s)AINT" to make fun of the execs at the record company who were worried because the album didn`t have any "rockin`" songs.

I think you and me like the opposite Manson albums. Like I love "HolyWood" and don`t like "Golden Age", and you`re vice-versa.
But hey that`s cool, different stokes for different folks~!

Just curious, have you ever heard any of Manson`s really old stuff before "Portrait"? Songs like "Dune Buggy" or "Learning To Swim" or "Suicide Snowman"?
I think that really old stuff is awesome, I wish they would release a collection of the old songs.

Also you should be interested in this:
Before "Anitichrist Superstar" came out, they had a song called "Smells Like Children" (it`s not on the album "Smells Like Children").
This song eventually became 'The Reflecting God" after some changes.
In the part where he chants "no forgiveness/no salvation", in the old song he chants "smells like children" in a weird voice.

[Fettdog]

I've had the album for a week now, and I think it's classic Manson - not too original (mOBSCENE is basically a rerun of Fight Song for example), but then Marilyn has always been about more than just the music.

We're off to see him at the Brixton Academy in London a week on Wednesday, so it'll be interesting to see how these new songs come across live, but having seen him before I'm sure the show itself will be interesting!

As for 'Doppelherz', all I can say is that it's the most pointless 25 minutes of DVD I've ever sat through! I like all things shocking, outrageous, horrifying, controversial and disturbing (hey, I'm not Mod on the Upcoming Horror Movies forum for nothing! ;) ), but this was none of the above. All it was was tedious, uninspired and dull! Sorry Brian. but you may think it's art, but it just bored me stupid!

[Haddonfield]

Elgyn


I have heard some of his early work. Its fun to hear the evolution. But I have not heard the "Smell Like Children" tune, tho it sounds interesting...wonder if Kazaa may have it? :)

After hearing (s)AINT after what you said, seems like there is a certain female exec who must have pissed him off big time...

"I am a dandy in your ghetto with the snow white smile...Super ego bitch, Ive been evil awhile"

Good stuff!:cool:

[Elgyn]

Just wanted to drop in and say that "Golden Age" is finally growing on me.
I notice he seems to have more of a sense of humor about himself than on past releases.

I like how he goes after ex-girlfriends ("Slutgarden", "Para-noir") his detractors ("(s)AINT", "Vod-evil") and even 'thug' rappers ("The Better Of Two Evils").

"When I said we/You know I meant ME/And when I said you`re sweet, I meant dirty"......

[Haddonfield]

Originally posted by Elgyn
"Golden Age" is finally growing on me.
I notice he seems to have more of a sense of humor about himself than on past releases.


I feel the same way...It obvious that I didnt like it but when I realized that this is very tounge n cheek but still good music, I finally "got it" Not that its all great but its 90 percent!

One thing I keep telling myself is that this is the first one without Twiggy...He wrote most of the music after "Portrait" and I can certainly hear a different style of guitar while staying close to the original sound...

I think I have waaaaaay too much time on my hands!:cool:

[Elgyn]

Yeah, I definetly noticed Twiggy`s absence from the first song on.
It`s so weird that he`s gonna be in Perfect Circle now!

[Haddonfield]

I did not know he is going to be in A Perfect Circle...thats very odd...Im kind of glad he is out because I never really cared for him too much....

[Septicfish]

Originally posted by Haddonfield
I did not know he is going to be in A Perfect Circle...thats very odd...Im kind of glad he is out because I never really cared for him too much....

Same here! :D

[kidkre0le]

Twiggy is great. Glad to see him and Maynard together on this next album.

[Frank the Tank]

When I first listened too it I thought it was blah, but after a couple of listens I am slowly getting into it

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by Frank the Tank

When I first listened too it I thought it was blah, but after a couple of listens I am slowly getting into it


Same here dude.

P.S. - awesome avatar!

[Haddonfield]

Seems to me that they put more attention to the drums on this one. Lets face it, the Manson drumming has never been anything great...borderline bad at times...but here it really sounds like they A. beefed up the sound of them, and B. play more of a role. Overall, they sould the best they ever have and ADD to a song for the first time.

Also, I have to say that Manson seems like he has to ass a "beautiful People" type of tune on each album....First was Beautiful People of course, then there was Rock is Dead, then there was Dissposible Teens now there is Doll Dagga Buzz Buzz Ziggity Zag...all of em have that very familiar sound...its not a bad thing...just wanted to mention it!

and this album is GREAT!

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by Haddonfield

I have to say that Manson seems like he has to ass a "beautiful People" type of tune on each album....First was Beautiful People of course, then there was Rock is Dead, then there was Dissposible Teens now there is Doll Dagga Buzz Buzz Ziggity Zag...all of em have that very familiar sound...


Yeah I`ve noticed that as well. Ah well, they`re all good songs though!

[Paparazzi Nazi]

i think his new cd is amazing, not as great as mechanical animals, but still great. except that better of 2 evils song, the chorus sounds like something Eminem would say.

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by Paparazzi Nazi

except that better of 2 evils song, the chorus sounds like something Eminem would say.


I think that`s supposed to be the point - he`s talking about thug rappers on that song. Get it? Manson`s saying he`s "The better of two evils" compared to thug rap.

I kinda like that song - "haters call me bitch, call me faggot, call me whitey!"

[Septicfish]

Woah man!!! Nothin' wrong with Eminem... anyway I do agree it's a great album.... I also really like that song you say you don't like.... oh well, your opinion.. :D (aimed at Paparazzi Nazi)

[Haddonfield]

Im really digging the "Antichrist" vibe on this record. Its more controled than the chaos that was "Antichrist" but thats not a bad thing...this one is so damn catchy.

He really nailed it on the first line of the first song by saying there isnt anything left to say...he turned it all around into a new direction...very nice job.

I know the album debut at number 1...anyone know how it has fared since?

[Elgyn]

I didn`t even know it debuted at number one.
Wow, I didn`t think Manson still had that big of a fanbase.

[Haddonfield]

I cant find a number of how many records he has sold so far but I did find that it went from number 1 to 21 to 30 in its three weeks so far. I think it did about 120,000 copies in the first week. Hopefully the next single can do some damage...he has many to choose from. I can see it certainly going gold...but there is enough good music that this should get pushed to at leats a million before to long...hopefully....