Unloading on Reloaded? Gimme a break

[wrathdotd]

By now we've all seen the waves of reviews that have come in for The Matrix Reloaded. They all seem to say the same thing...let down. Question for you people...what did you expect?

First off I love The Matrix. Thought it was great. I didn't buy into the whole philosophy of it because there are numerous holes in the plot line that don't hold true. Even after all of this I still love it because it's, A. Eye Candy & B. An original storyline.

Reloaded is no different. It's eye candy galore and continues the same storyline. For everyone out there who got their expectations so high, you will be let down. You all should go into this movie expecting to see some very cool shit and that's it.

Don't set yourself up for disappointment by expecting this movie to be THE movie of all time. Eye candy, nothing more, nothing less.

[Doc Holliday]

If you think the Matrix is just eye candy, then you are missing the story totally. There is a totally deeper meaning to it. There is actually a philosophy to the Matrix, a deeper religious conotation. they deliver this message to us in Reloaded. It made the movie that much more entertaining to me. When I first thought about the movie as the credits were rolling, I thought "that was pretty fun". Then I thought about some of the interaction between the characters and went "whoa, this is actually pretty meaningful and deep in some respects."

If you don't like that kind of movie, if you don't want to think about what just happened and what is the meaning behind something....then go see and old Jean Claude van damme movie. You don't have to think about anything there.

Reloaded was a kick ass movie, and a movie with some meaning. Deal with it!

[Ronaldinho]

Reloaded was a piece of crap.

And I went in with very modest expectations.

[JoBlo]

I've seen this in a couple of other threads as well and I still don't see exactly WHO you folks are talking about when you say "They all seem to say the same thing...let down". Who are "they"?

According to most film critics, which is who I assume you are talking about, they adore it!! Rottentomatoes.com has most of the critics up and as it stands today, the approval rating of the film is close to 80% (98 positive reviews, 28 negative). Considering that the film is a sequel and a science-fiction movie (both of which are generally shit all over to begin with), I would say that it's KICKIN' ASS in terms of reviews. See here: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheMatrixReloaded-1122457/

[wrathdotd]

Joblo, I took your review to mean you were let down. Maybe I misconstrued it but that's the impression I got. That's not to say you didn't like it, just that it did not meet your expectations. There are at least 3 reviews on AICN talking about it being a let down. I read a review from cnn.com today(probably an entertainment weekly review) that said, great effects but overall let down compared to the first.

As to the post about deeper meaning. I get the philosophy behind the Matrix. It's a very interesting subject. My point was there are some questions that popped up in the first movie that seem to draw away from its "validity".

Now I fully admit I may just not get that but here is an example...

The Matrix, and more specifically Agents, can see through the eyes of any human plugged in to the Matrix. This is evident many times, most obvious of which the chase scene near the end of the matrix. If this is true why didn't the matrix see through Neo's eyes while he was still plugged in when he met with morpheus. Couldn't Neo have been taken over by an agent and nabbed Morpheus right then? Movie would have sucked but that would fit.

There's a lot of stuff like that all throughout the movie . Due to that I never bought into the rules of The Matrix. I love the idea that our whole world may simply be a figment of our imagination but the Wachowski Bros. seem to violate a lot of their own rules.

If anyone can explain this away PLEASE feel free.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by wrathdotd
The Matrix, and more specifically Agents, can see through the eyes of any human plugged in to the Matrix. This is evident many times, most obvious of which the chase scene near the end of the matrix. If this is true why didn't the matrix see through Neo's eyes while he was still plugged in when he met with morpheus. Couldn't Neo have been taken over by an agent and nabbed Morpheus right then? Movie would have sucked but that would fit.

There's a lot of stuff like that all throughout the movie . Due to that I never bought into the rules of The Matrix. I love the idea that our whole world may simply be a figment of our imagination but the Wachowski Bros. seem to violate a lot of their own rules.

If anyone can explain this away PLEASE feel free.

Or why didn't they just get into the body of the keymaker and just kill themselves?

[Tuukka]

Because Neo is not a standard human. Same rules don't apply to him that apply to most humans. This was pretty obvious. I haven't seen Reloaded yet, but I assume that Keymaker isn't a standard human either.

[wrathdotd]

Not a standard human? Oh come on. He was a human being plugged into the Matrix and being used for battery power. It didn't take the agents long to find him once they knew Neo was Morpheus' next target. They could have gotten in him, they just didn't cause it would ruin the movie.

Again, I love the movie so don't think I am bashing it.

[DreamEva990]

Actually the Key maker is a program that uses certain keys to access backdoors of the Matrix. Just like the Oracle and the Architech, the Keymaker was just there to make keys. Keymaker =Hacker. If he get's shot, then he is deleted. Basically you are deleted when you die in the Matrix. The twins are programs, as all the people that fought NEO inside the French dudes house. Rogue programs!

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by wrathdotd
Not a standard human? Oh come on. He was a human being plugged into the Matrix and being used for battery power. It didn't take the agents long to find him once they knew Neo was Morpheus' next target. They could have gotten in him, they just didn't cause it would ruin the movie.

Again, I love the movie so don't think I am bashing it.

We don't know for sure how the agents found out about Neo, but they did know who Trinity was and Trinity contacted Neo. So it isn't much of a stretch that they found out about Neo.

The agents put a tracking devide inside Neo when they find him. If they could find Neo wherever he is, why would they put the bug in him? So obviously they *can't* find and control him like they can find and control standard humans.

I thought it was pretty clear that Neo wasn't a typical human being. There was some stuff about "The One" as far as I can recall. Apparently some minds are resisting control, and Neo, Morpheus and Trinity are some of them.

Just for a point, I *don't* love the movie. It think it's quite good, but not even close to being great. However, the plothole you pointed out doesn't seem like a plothole at all.

[wrathdotd]

Originally posted by Tuukka

The agents put a tracking devide inside Neo when they find him. If they could find Neo wherever he is, why would they put the bug in him? So obviously they *can't* find and control him like they can find and control standard humans.

I thought it was pretty clear that Neo wasn't a typical human being. There was some stuff about "The One" as far as I can recall. Apparently some minds are resisting control, and Neo, Morpheus and Trinity are some of them.



What does "the One" mean? Neo had no clue about his abilities prior to his meeting with Morpheus. It doesnt make sense that the system can follow where Neo goes later in the movie by changing into people left and right but can't find or use him in the beginning. His being "the one" is meaningless prior to him leaving the matrix and being educated on what it truly is.

And that whole tracking device bit makes no sense either. A mechanical device which doesnt exist is planted into a body that doesnt exist but somehow lets them know where he is. 2ndly, why use a bug anyway? Why not just follow him detective style? Sounds like an easier solution to me.

[Tuukka]

What does "the One" mean? Neo had no clue about his abilities prior to his meeting with Morpheus.

RE: Not everyone in the Matrix can learn to be like Neo. So he is special. This is said in the film over again and again. He has the gift of being special. This same gift most likely prevents agents from taking over his body.

It doesnt make sense that the system can follow where Neo goes later in the movie by changing into people left and right but can't find or use him in the beginning.

RE: In the end Smith knows where Neo is, he is following on his footsteps. So he just picks random people in the direction where Neo is running. Besides, Smith should know the architecture of the city, so he knows all the possibilities where Neo can go. He seems to be only about 10-20 seconds behind Neo.

His being "the one" is meaningless prior to him leaving the matrix and being educated on what it truly is.

RE: The film never claims so. Neo is special even before he enters the "real world". His mind is already suspecting the reality around him. Since the agents can't take over Trinity or Morpheus either, we can assume that a suspicious mind would battle over an agent who tries to take over.

And that whole tracking device bit makes no sense either. A mechanical device which doesnt exist is planted into a body that doesnt exist but somehow lets them know where he is.

RE: It makes perfect sense. Everything inside the matrix is manifested physically. When the agents kill someone, they have to physically kill him, they can't just think him dead. They don't think they shoot a gun, they physically shoot it. So they can't just think the existence of the bug, they have to physically implant it. That's how the matrix works. Everything has to be manifested physically, otherwise it doesn't exist in the reality of matrix.

2ndly, why use a bug anyway? Why not just follow him detective style? Sounds like an easier solution to me.

RE: Why do they use bugs in real life? Wouldn't it be easier to just follow people around? I guess the reason they use bugs in matrix is the same reason why they use bugs in real life as well.

[APzombie]

When i left the theater, i liked it, but i had questions, and the questions distracted my overall opinion on the film...

now, a day later, i look back and praise the brothers for giving me somthing to think (hard) about while waiting for Revelutions!

The more i think about the film the more i love it...

i understand where people are coming from with negetive reviews, but, like every highly anticipated film (and this might just be the highest thus far), you have certin expectations, this film did not go below mine (to be honest, it went higher) but it just took the whole concept in a different direction.

I give it a amzing * * * */ * * * *

[bob]

Threads like these are starting to make me angry, because it's starting to appear like people just won't let you dislike a film. Look at my favorite films. I love them all. If you'd rather have your balls cut off and fed to you marinated in wine that watch them, that's great. But give me a reason.

I've posted my review of The Matrix Reloaded in two different threads: The Matrix Reloaded (In Current Movie Talk) and Jo's Review of....(In General Movie Talk). If you read both of them (which I know you won't) you'll see that not one of the reasons I didn't like this film was that it was a let down.

P.S. in case there was any confusion, this message was to wrathdotd.

[The Delfonics]

Im just going to add that I loved the new direction it took in showing us more about Zion. The first movie was darker because it only dealt with a few characters. I havent seen the first one in like 6 months and I will need to see it again. I thought Reloaded was awesome and I cant wait til the third comes out. I orignally gave The Matrix a 7/10 stating it was so-so but after seeing the new one I was back into the Matrix craze and bumped it to an 8/10 maybe even higher when I watch it again. Reloaded was a VERY solid 9/10.

[Grim H.]

To tell you the truth, I wasn't dissapointed in The Matrix: Reloaded, simply for the fact that I had no clue what was supposed to happen. I stayed away from the trailers, previews, reviews, summaries, behind-the-scenes segments, etc, and I thought it was a damn good movie! nuff said.

The Matrix Reloaded-9/10.

[KcMsterpce]

I'll be brief, since a lot of my reasoning behind my dislike of this movie could lie in a whole other rant.

This movie isn't so blow-you-out-of-your-seat philisophical that it makes me think that much. It's the same darned prophetic notion that you read about in religions and many sci-fi/fantasy stories. On top of that, he may be the Dragon Reborn, or a False Dragon... or Muadib... I don't really care... do I ENJOY THE MOVIE?

No, I didn't. I got sick of the crappy dialogue and predictable plot 'twists'. Nevermind the CGI overuse - if I wanted an animated flick, I'd watch Animatrix. Matrix is so appallingly overrated that I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about it.

I'm not saying people are stupid for liking it. I just wish that so many others would stop proclaiming that The Matrix - which is mainly made to dominate your action-movie senses - is also a 'whole new world of philisophical theories and possibilities". No it isn't. I suggest you stop and think about how many times you've come across a movie in which someone is living in a dream or virtual world. How many times has a movie or book been written about someone being The One? It's the same basic concept, just more advertised and therefore noticed by the public than so many other movies and books that are out there.

[Clarkie02]

I have been wanting to post my thoughts on the negative comments about the matrix reloaded, but didn't get registered until today.

Anyway . . . Here I go

The first thing to realize is the tremendous hype associated with this movie. There isn't a single movie I can remember with this much hype. Also, any movie with such considerable anticipation is doomed for dissapointment.

Another thing, it is a science fiction movie. You must buy into the story to enjoy it.

The Matrix reloaded was a good movie and a worthy sequel to the original Matrix. It did have its flaws, but no movie is perfect. I really don't think the negative comments regarding the excessive philosophy is warranted. The same criptic dialogue and questions answering questions, existed in both movies. So now why all of a sudden are people mad about it?

We had all seen rediculous stunts in movies prior to the matrix, but the story behind the matrix warranted the crazy, fun stunts. This philosphical plot is what made us love the first movie.

People are correct, the philosophy is not ground-breaking. Are the brothers geniuses? I am not sure what their IQ's are, but they are making cool ass movies that have and will change movies forever.

Also, the first Matrix movie has desensitized us. There was nothing that the sequel could do, but dissappoint. If the Matrix reloaded had been released with a small background from the first movie and had an ending instead of the much talked about cliffhanger and released as the first movie, it would have been a bigger movie than the original.

In summary:

Forget all the negative comments, The Matrix Reloaded is one cool ass movie . . . period. The storyline is thought-provoking and original. The action is second to none.

The Matrix Reloaded is awesome, just like the original.

[Anonymooo]

Owned, ladies and gents. Owned. By a guy named CLARKIE, no less.

http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/ownedconnectfour-Moz.jpg

[bob]

I can speak literally only for myself here, but I didn't have a problem with the ending, the philosophy, or the plot....


THE FLICK WAS BORING AS HELL.

There, now deconstruct and prove to me why it wasn't.

[Raoul Duke]

It actually was quite boring in the beginning there at Zion where they rambled on and on and on about shit for, jeez, must have been a half hour to 40 mins. Then it picked up a little with some cool ass effects and awesome stunts. The highway chase was amazing, just pay to see that one scene.

[Anonymooo]

Originally posted by bob
THE FLICK WAS BORING AS HELL.

There, now deconstruct and prove to me why it wasn't.

There's really nothing to deconstruct with a flat, reasonless statement like that.

Come back with some supporting evidence as to why it was boring--say something like, I dunno... "action doesn't excite me. I like to see people stand around and shoot the breeze."

Y'gotta admit, though, seeing the most UNLIKELY of people, i.e. Keanu Reeves and Morpheus, throwing kicks that'd make any OTHER non-martial arts actors' groins ache, is a surprising and welcome treat.

[quoth_the_raven]

oh, i went to see this with my love of the first film in mind yesterday. the trailers had really got me looking forward to it...

flat out, the single greatest cinematic disappointment in my life. its rare for me to get this down on a film, but i really did not enjoy it as i thought i would. quite the opposite. i felt relieved when it ended. literally, only one or two moments got to me...the chase, the multi-smith fight, and, for some insane reason, i enjoyed every second of the conversation with the archietect...but still it was a disappointment overall..

there we go. i just partially unloaded on the matrix reloaded?

my point? to each their own...

[Zombie]

11/10

Simply put...

[bob]

Originally posted by Anonymooo
There's really nothing to deconstruct with a flat, reasonless statement like that.

Come back with some supporting evidence as to why it was boring--say something like, I dunno... "action doesn't excite me. I like to see people stand around and shoot the breeze."

Y'gotta admit, though, seeing the most UNLIKELY of people, i.e. Keanu Reeves and Morpheus, throwing kicks that'd make any OTHER non-martial arts actors' groins ache, is a surprising and welcome treat.

No, it isn't. Call me crazy, but I prefer a good old-fashioned Bruce Lee REAL ass-kicking to the stuff in this film. Like it or not, friends, a lot of the stuff in this film was fake.

But, as your suggestion is reasonable, I will explain why I was bored.

-The film had far too many scenes where nothing really happened. People talking about the matrix, people talking about the prophecy, people talking about people talking about the matrix....it went on for way too long.

-When we were finally treated to some action, the scenes didn't have any punch. I was excited during only one action scene, and that was because it contained 200 copies of my favorite character (Smith). All the action scenes were bored retreads of the first flick's action scenes. And, (I never thought I'd say this), they also went on too long. Neo fought the French guys minions for about 10 minutes, and they kept doing the same things over and over.


Now please, allow me to hate this movie.

[Anonymooo]

Now THAT's more like it! :D

Now hate away.

[Dafixer]

Originally posted by Tuukka
[B]

RE: Why do they use bugs in real life? Wouldn't it be easier to just follow people around? I guess the reason they use bugs in matrix is the same reason why they use bugs in real life as well.

Here's my take on it. Anyone who has had to debug a large program would see its a daunting task, even for a computer. Sometimes there can be thousands upon thousands lines of code, and sometimes a problem is just one thing out of place. Sometime even the computer debugger cannot find it. Quite often the bad code is written correctly so the debugger does not detect the problem because to a computer as long as the code is written correctly, there's no problem. But the program will still not work like its supposed to. Ask any programmer about this, they will tell you pretty much the same thing.

I saw the freed minds just like this. There are millions of people to keep track of, and when freed minds enter the matrix they are just part of the millions until the system (Agents, Mainframe) become aware of thier activities - like when the bum see's Morpheus vanish into the phone in the First Matrix, or the Police see the "Wanter Fugitives" and go after them. So the Agents would need something to help them track and find the bad code (the freed minds) and sometimes you need something extra in order to do it. If they could just stop them, they would.

What makes this so good is that it shows why Machines are not perfect. They can only think like machines, and only what they are programed to do. Morpeus made it clear that even when they free a mind they too have to add something to it (the red pill which is a carrier signal that helps them trace where the body is once the mind wakes up.) Otherwise they would have to search every single human trapped in "fields" in order to find the newly awakenned mind. (This is my theory until I see "Kid's Story" in animatrix and learn how he "freed himself")

The Matrix is not simple for machines to operate, nor is it simple for humans to get free from.

Here's my question: The kids in the Oracle's apartment were "potentials" and obviously could effect the Matrix in some way. I wonder where they go, and what happens to them when training is done. I though at first they would be like special soldiers or something. But I would like to see that explored a little more because I was interested in that minor sub-plot.

[docholiday_13]

I for one loved the Matrix Reloaded. Sure its not as good as the original. But as far as summer popcorn movies go, it's INCREDIBLE!!!!!

[Jim H]

Forget all the negative comments, The Matrix Reloaded is one cool ass movie . . . period. The storyline is thought-provoking and original. The action is second to none.

I don't consider the storyline totally original (goes back to Greek stories and other mythologies and such), not even close. But it is more original then 99% of what comes out of Hollywood, so I'll go with that.

But the action is not the best ever. I've heard people say this before, and I simply must argue with it. The only sequence in the movie that I would consider among the best EVER was the freeway chase scenes (especially Trinity on the motorcycle). The rest (kung fu) is good, much better choreographed then in the original, but we've seen better from Yuen Woo-Ping earlier, and better from various other places in Hong Kong.

Melee fights I consider superior to all of them in Reloaded:

The chainsaw duel in Tiger on Beat.
The final fights in Drunken Master 2, as well as the fight against the hatchet gang.
The threeway fight in Dragon Inn.
The knife fights in Full Contact.
Almost everything in Drive, which is a straight-to-video American movie.
Most of the fights in Rumble in the Bronx.
Most of the fights in Fist of Legend (Yuen Woo-Ping there).
Wing Chun (YWP again).

There are many more, but I'm not a big kung fu fan or anything, so that was all I could think of.

I should mention I liked The Matrix Reloaded and gave it an 8/10.

[JCPhoenix]

The first thing to realize is the tremendous hype associated with this movie. There isn't a single movie I can remember with this much hype. Also, any movie with such considerable anticipation is doomed for dissapointment.

Yes, exactly. I WAS disappointed.

Another thing, it is a science fiction movie. You must buy into the story to enjoy it.

I did buy into the story of the first Matrix (8/10), but I didn't see much of a story for the first 2 hours of this movie to buy into. If you just watched the last 30 minutes, that's all you'd need to go into Matrix Revolutions.

The Matrix reloaded was a good movie and a worthy sequel to the original Matrix. It did have its flaws, but no movie is perfect. I really don't think the negative comments regarding the excessive philosophy is warranted. The same criptic dialogue and questions answering questions, existed in both movies. So now why all of a sudden are people mad about it?

The key word is EXCESSIVE. I loved the philosophy thing in the original, but every single word that came out of the characters' mouths in this one was philosophizing. They go overboard with this, leading to boredom, and leading to less advancement of the storyline.

We had all seen rediculous stunts in movies prior to the matrix, but the story behind the matrix warranted the crazy, fun stunts. This philosphical plot is what made us love the first movie.

Again, I said the philosophy worked up to a certain point. Just too much of it, and none of it advanced the plot. The stunts and action scenes were amazing though.

People are correct, the philosophy is not ground-breaking. Are the brothers geniuses? I am not sure what their IQ's are, but they are making cool ass movies that have and will change movies forever.

Repeating for the third time lol, I don't care if the philosophy is groundbreaking or not. Just whether it has anything to do with the plot. After hearing stuff about freeing your mind for the fifty millionth time, i have to say, i get the point. and all that cause and effect, etc, etc, etc.

Also, the first Matrix movie has desensitized us. There was nothing that the sequel could do, but dissappoint. If the Matrix reloaded had been released with a small background from the first movie and had an ending instead of the much talked about cliffhanger and released as the first movie, it would have been a bigger movie than the original.

I agree. I feel Matrix Reloaded as more of a setup to a movie than a movie. I have to see Matrix Revolutions first to see the whole picture.

In summary:

Forget all the negative comments, The Matrix Reloaded is one cool ass movie . . . period. The storyline is thought-provoking and original. The action is second to none.

The Matrix Reloaded is awesome, just like the original.

Forget all the negative comments? Ignoring them won't make them go away :p

...in response, the ending is interesting (in terms of the implications it has for where exactly the matrix is, but that too is copied off of other movies, books etc...), but the first two hours of the movie didn't really go anywhere. the whole thing was just find the keymaker who'll lead u to the architect who gives you answers. the end (in fact, u could take out the keymaker and it'd still work. neo finds the architect who gives him answers. the end.). not much of a storyline. oh and on the way, we'll load you up with a bunch of cool ass fighting sequences to make you forget about the lack of storyline.

the action? there are many other movies that have great action sequences, and i would definitely argue with the second to none thing, but yes, matrix reloaded has some of the best action sequences i've seen. the freeway sequence was great. the twins were great. MONICA FUCKIN BELLUCCI was great. (in case u don't know, i have a serious...obsession with bellucci...too bad she wasn't in the whole movie, than i would've given it 10/10 ;).)

In short, if you want to know my rating, it was 5/10, but I've upped it to 6/10. I would hold my rating on this right now however until i see matrix revolutions. it's hard to rate something when you only have half of the puzzle.

[someguy]

It was sort of weird when I saw the Matrix Reloaded. After it was finished I didn't feel anything. Nothing. I went in simply expecting cool action and everything else was really just open for me. But I didn't find any oomph in this movie. The freeway scene was very underwhelming(but I'm mainly ho-hum on car chases and the bunch except for the bullet-time scene with the trucks that was cool).

Anyway I don't want to make this a review. I have to agree on the fact of people going in with high expectations and coming out mad because it didn't turn out their way. This happened with a person I know. They kept saying Matrix is gonna be one of my fav movies of all time! It's wicked I know it. I kept telling him don't go in expecting something because you'll just get let down. He always replied by saying well I thought X2 was gonna be great and it was so I'm sure I'm right. And what was his reaction after seeing it??????

It was ok. I expected a lot more.

Expect is the key word here. It happened with the Ring too. A lot of people said(when it came out on video)I expected it to be really scary. I think everyone should go in with an open mind at a movie. Maybe movies will get more enjoyable to some people.

You can't think that something from another person's mind will be the EXACT same as what's in your mind.

[Tom Samborski]

I actually kept my expectations low when I went into seeing The Matrix Reloaded, and I thought it was good. Still thought the first Matrix was better though.