Charlton Heston, why the hate?

[Dead Halloween]

I've noticed that for some reason a lot of americans hate him. So I wanted to know why so maybe I can join the club:rolleyes:

[Moviefan1234]

His views on firearms. Personally I don't always agree with his views on politics, but he's a great actor and I rate celebrities on their talent alone.

[James Logan]

He's an arrogant, racist, over-conservative, half-assed fucker.

That's why I hate him. Ain't such a fantastic actor either, if you ask me.

[Razorblade Smile]

I appreciate him as an actor and I like his movies, but I think the NRA made a way-wrong move by making him their spokesperson.

He's an arrogant right-wing dick who gives other arrogant right-wing dicks a bad name. Because of this, many people erringly believe that everyone involved in the NRA are representative of his personal views and attitude (Which is compeltely false).

[Beowulf]

I'm not exactly sure why all the animosity for Charlton Hesten exists. I assume it's because some simply don't agree with his politics, and instead of saying "I disagree here and here" they take the easy way out (which requires little actual thinking or research) and try to sling a bunch of labels like "right wing" or "racist" and hope something sticks.

The racist one confuses me the most though. Heston recently (2001) received a lifetime achievement award from the Congress of Racial Equality for his efforts to expand civil rights during the 60's. He walked with Doctor King to Washington during the civil rights march, and helped King get an audience with the screen actor's guild union (who at that time did not employ African Americans on film crews), and King was able to persuade a change.

http://www.jewishpost.com/jp0703/jpbr0703a.htm

And being involved in the civil rights movement in any shape was not an easy thing to do back then for those in the film industry. Agents were concerned that taking a controversial stand like that would alienate many potential viewers to their client's material. Certainly gutsier than flashing a peace sign at the academy awards or some-such circa 2002.

So, if someone wants to throw the term "racist" around they better have more documentation then what they see in (MTV style edited) Michael Moore videos.

[JCR]

So, if someone wants to throw the term "racist" around they better have more documentation then what they see in (MTV style edited) Michael Moore videos.


Maybe but even the fact he even did the interview with moore suggests a lack of judgement. If he had done so much as 5 minutes research into Michael Moore he would have realised doing an interview with him was a bad idea.

And I'm sorry he's ill, but come on doing a gun rally in denver just after the massacre was in very bad taste, whatever your point of view is regarding gun ownership.

[Nate6]

Originally posted by James Logan
He's an arrogant, racist, over-conservative, half-assed fucker.

That's why I hate him. Ain't such a fantastic actor either, if you ask me.

Agreed and agreed.

Though I did like him in Ben-Hur.

[Lindsey]

Funny I was just watching Phil Hartman play and make fun of Charlton Heston on Saturday Night Live.

The only thing I really know about the guy is he's an actor. I don't care for him, really.

[Reigh Kaufman]

I use the word 'hate' more than I mean to. But I fucking loathe Heston and will never EVER be convinced he was a decent human being. Hell, I even fast forward through his cameo in Wayne's World 2.

Better give my reasons: his advocation of guns (and very fucking questionable political beliefs). I was at University Of Stirling for a year, which unhappily coincided with the Dunblane tragedy. One of my lecturers children was shot dead and, with Dunblane being only a few miles from the city, we all saw the impact on the community (and our nation) closer than we normally would have. I signed petition after petition to rid Scotland of handguns and don't care what you think of my stance; not many of you will have seen the broken-hearted parents as close as the people of the city of Stirling have had to. I still burn a candle every year out of respect; and Heston can bite me if he thinks I am some kind of wuss for believing what believe.

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by Reigh Kaufman
I use the word 'hate' more than I mean to. But I fucking loathe Heston and will never EVER be convinced he was a decent human being. Hell, I even fast forward through his cameo in Wayne's World 2.

Better give my reasons: his advocation of guns (and very fucking questionable political beliefs). I was at University Of Stirling for a year, which unhappily coincided with the Dunblane tragedy. One of my lecturers children was shot dead and, with Dunblane being only a few miles from the city, we all saw the impact on the community (and our nation) closer than we normally would have. I signed petition after petition to rid Scotland of handguns and don't care what you think of my stance; not many of you will have seen the broken-hearted parents as close as the people of the city of Stirling have had to. I still burn a candle every year out of respect; and Heston can bite me if he thinks I am some kind of wuss for believing what believe.

I agree. Well said.

[Beowulf]

Maybe but even the fact he even did the interview with Moore suggests a lack of judgment. If he had done so much as 5 minutes research into Michael Moore he would have realised doing an interview with him was a bad idea.

I definitely agree with you on that one. :D And I have mixed opinions on the Denver issue. While it definitely wasn't the best PR move, there have still been exaggerations as to what did really occur. It was previously scheduled, and Heston did remove all of the festivities that normally surround the event. He also made no mentions about "removing guns from my cold dead hands"...that was spliced in by Moore, who took words from a different Heston speech that was eight months removed from said event. But perhaps it should have been cancelled all together.

As to the whole gun issue, there are certainly arguments both pro and con. However this being a movie message board I won't sidetrack the thread with them. Suffice it to say that it takes more for me than an actor's stance on one hot-button political issue (Be it gun control, abortion, ect) to call someone names. Since reasonable people can have different views on such subjects, and tolerance of opinions at least dictates basic civility.

[Nate6]

Originally posted by Reigh Kaufman
Better give my reasons: his advocation of guns (and very fucking questionable political beliefs). I was at University Of Stirling for a year, which unhappily coincided with the Dunblane tragedy. One of my lecturers children was shot dead and, with Dunblane being only a few miles from the city, we all saw the impact on the community (and our nation) closer than we normally would have. I signed petition after petition to rid Scotland of handguns and don't care what you think of my stance; not many of you will have seen the broken-hearted parents as close as the people of the city of Stirling have had to. I still burn a candle every year out of respect; and Heston can bite me if he thinks I am some kind of wuss for believing what believe.

I don't want to make things political but I'll only say that I agree 100% with everything you said.

And now I'm off to talk about porn - er - Orson Welles.

[Beowulf]

And now I'm off to talk about porn - er - Orson Welles.

I prefer H.G. Wells myself, but sadly his books usually aren't large enough to stash porn in. :p :(

[jmcpher_007]

I'm not a big Heston fan. I always thought he was overrated... not a bad actor in the least, but just not up to par with the amount of praise he's generally given. I don't care for overly political celebrities no matter who they are or what they support, so that doesn't help his cause much either. I wouldn't say I'm a hater, but I do dislike him.

[bowieee]

I don't necessarily hate the man I just think he is off his rocker and is loads of fun to make fun of.

Plus he pretty much is the rifle loving god fearin republican poster child which makes him even more fun to poke fun at.

It's hard to hate a man who's too stupid to realize what an idiot he is. He's like a giant 2 year old that's been spoon fed exactly what to say by the NRA and the church.

Plus without him it wouldn't be so much fun to shout "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS"

:rolleyes:

[electriclite]

I never liked him as an actor, and its all grown from there.

[ColinM]

If you've seen his interview on Bowling for Columbine, you wouldn't be asking this question. Although now I'm hearing that that interview was severely edited, so I don't know what to think now. The guys still seems like an asshole, though, for all the reasons Logan said.

[Benny]

I'm liberal and believe in stricter gun control, so I've never really been a big fan of Heston's. He's a decent actor though, but not great.

By the way, I thought Bowling for Columbine was very good, up till Moore's final interview with Heston. Even though I don't like Heston, I thought Moore unfairly took advantage of him and didn't let him give his side of the story. Moore just bullied around the Alzheimer's-ridden old fart and bombarded him with questions. It was too one-sided and not very credible.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Beowulf


The racist one confuses me the most though. Heston recently (2001) received a lifetime achievement award from the Congress of Racial Equality for his efforts to expand civil rights during the 60's. He walked with Doctor King to Washington during the civil rights march, and helped King get an audience with the screen actor's guild union (who at that time did not employ African Americans on film crews), and King was able to persuade a change.

And being involved in the civil rights movement in any shape was not an easy thing to do back then for those in the film industry. Agents were concerned that taking a controversial stand like that would alienate many potential viewers to their client's material. Certainly gutsier than flashing a peace sign at the academy awards or some-such circa 2002.



An award from CORE these days means absolutely nothing. That once proud civil rights organization (when James Farmer ran it, it was among he most important organizations in the Movement. Farmer is always pictured in the meetings at the White House w/ various Presidents, along w/ King, Abernathy, Whitney Young, et. al.) was taken over by a confused little sociopath named Roy Innis in the late 60's and had its legacy sullied by becoming his personal little fiefdom since then.

Mr. Innis and his rather warped son Niger are always trotted out by GOP crypto-racists in an effort to show that some black folks agree with them, and so they simply can't be called racists then, can they? A CORE Civil Rights award is like that sought after Muamar Quadaffi Human Rights Award that Farrakhan proudly won a few years ago: not worth the wood and brass it's made of.

Heston's creeping over to the demented Right is especially difficult to take because of his brave and honotrable stands then. I've written about this at length here.

As far as his ability is concerned, he's not a great actor, but he's a wonderful Movie Star, and I really like a lot of his movies.

I just wish he'd get his head out of his ass.

[randythetool]

i'm not sure about everyone, but a lot of people hate him because "bowling for columbine" won an oscar, and michael moore has some sort of grudge against him. i call it shoddy filmmaking, but apparently it's some sort of stylistic device.

[BadCoverVersion]

Wherever there is human tragedy...Charlie will be there.

He's like a big fucking stupid sponge.

[Jasonite]

I don't hate him, I loved watching him growing up, and I still will own three of his movies. I'm not thrilled about his politics, but that's ok, I don't have to like his politics.


J

[James Logan]

Originally posted by JCR
Maybe but even the fact he even did the interview with moore suggests a lack of judgement. If he had done so much as 5 minutes research into Michael Moore he would have realised doing an interview with him was a bad idea.


Actually, he should've done both. First research Moore and then grant the interview. I mean, if the man had been in a MICHAEL MOORE interview and answered in a sensitive, prepared way...he'd have done himself some fantastic publicity. But he fucked up and come off as a dick.

[Living_Dead_Dude]

Heston's one of my favourite actors of all time (although he wasn't all that great, I love the dude!!) and don't have a clue what any of you are talking about (I'm in England, I haven't heard about this stuff, he'd probably make the papers if he slept with Catherine Zeta Jones or somthing, that's how it works over here, celebrities and politcal issues bore people, celebrities and sex scandals on the other hand...but he hasn't been up to that now has he)

[Paterfamilias]

Originally posted by Beowulf
I'm not exactly sure why all the animosity for Charlton Hesten exists. I assume it's because some simply don't agree with his politics, and instead of saying "I disagree here and here" they take the easy way out (which requires little actual thinking or research) and try to sling a bunch of labels like "right wing" or "racist" and hope something sticks...



Beowulf, welcome to the boards, I think you're my new best friend.

JCR mentioned that it was bad judgement to do the interview with Moore, and I agree. That was what was so sad to me about the interview. Here Heston welcomed Moore into his home, was very hospitable and gracious to him and he gets side swiped by the guy. How many celebrities do you think would invite someone they don't know into their homes the morning after they just come up and ring the doorbell?

If Moore wanted a real discussion o the NRA's views on things, he should have interviewed Wayne LaPierre - he doesn't have alzheimers.

Since reasonable people can have different views on such subjects, and tolerance of opinions at least dictates basic civility.

Again, I agree wholeheartely. My views probably line up more with Heston's than many who have posted here. (I own firearms, tend to be politically conservative, and also want "damn those dirty apes to hell" :p

In answer to the original question, I think that people hate him because he represents views that they disagree with.

As for his acting, he tends to umm, overact a bit. But i enjoy many of his movies, Touch of Evil probably being my favorite of the one's I have seen. Also, PotA, Ben Hur,& The Ten Commandments

[Jerk Shapiro]

Originally posted by Paterfamilias


In answer to the original question, I think that people hate him because he represents views that they disagree with.




Well said, my friend. Well said. But I'll say it, gun control would be a good thing, we'd be better off. BUT, I don't think it's right to blame him for school shootings and such.

[Helter-Skelter]

Say what you will about Michael Moore, but nothing will change the fact that Charlton Heston held NRA rallies in Columbine and various other locations almost immediately after horrible tragedies had occured. What was going through his head when he made those decisions is beyond me since I can't think of a single thing that could possibly be more insensitive to the families & friends of the victims of those tragedies. I don't know about you, but I would hardly welcome an organization that advocates very liberal guns laws to my home town so soon after someone close to me was just gunned down - call me crazy, but I wouldn't really appreciate their gesture.

I don't think Heston is OVERTLY racist. The answers he gave to Moore's question in Bowling for Columbine as to why did America have such a high gun homicide rate when compared to other countries, in which he said "different races" didn't strike me as an answer borne out of racist hatred, but rather out of ignorance. I just don't think he knew what he was talking about.

To me, Heston, probably approached his role as head of the NRA as another acting job, he probably never gave much thought to the whole issue of gun violence. But still that doesn't change the fact that what he did by holding those rallies so soon after the tragedies was just plain wrong.

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by Helter-Skelter
Say what you will about Michael Moore, but nothing will change the fact that Charlton Heston held NRA rallies in Columbine ...almost immediately after horrible tragedies had occured.

Heston DIDN'T hold pro-gun rallies in Columbine "almost immediately after." It was a pre-scheduled event, which was dramatically toned down in remembrance of those events. AND IT WAS HELD NEARLY 8 MONTHS AFTER. Moore skewde that, just like many other things.

I'm no fan of Heston, or the NRA, but I dislike Moore and his blowhard tactics even more.

[James Logan]

Originally posted by Paterfamilias

As for his acting, he tends to umm, overact a bit.

Agreed there. When he yells "Damn them! Damn them all to hell!" in PLANET OF THE APES, I always picture him in one of those old Shakespearian outfits from stage representations. He's over the top, in what I think is a bad way (à la Jeremy Irons these days, not à la Al Pacino..."oooh-haa!").

[randythetool]

Heston DIDN'T hold pro-gun rallies in Columbine "almost immediately after." It was a pre-scheduled event, which was dramatically toned down in remembrance of those events. AND IT WAS HELD NEARLY 8 MONTHS AFTER. Moore skewde that, just like many other things.

yes - it was pre-scheduled, and *all* of the activities, except for the speech used in "BFC," were cancelled. the 'from my cold, dead, hands' clip was from another rally, several months previous, where heston was given an antique musket as a gift.

take a look at these links. i think they speak pretty loudly on michael moore's lack of integrity.

this is a transcript of heston's speech as used in "bowling:"

http://ufies.org/archives/000586.html

this is a transcript of the speech as it was actually given:

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/meeting99/hestsp1.html

[Nachokoolaid]

Originally posted by James Logan
Actually, he should've done both. First research Moore and then grant the interview. I mean, if the man had been in a MICHAEL MOORE interview and answered in a sensitive, prepared way...he'd have done himself some fantastic publicity. But he fucked up and come off as a dick.

I think we have to remember that Moore editied that film. We didn't get to see everything Heston says. It's like the news. Citizens only see some big shot's version of the news, what they choose to show us, not what actually happens. I take that interview with a grain of salt.

[Beowulf]

Mr. Innis and his rather warped son Niger are always trotted out by GOP crypto-racists in an effort to show that some black folks agree with them, and so they simply can't be called racists then, can they?

This sort of thinking has never sat well with me. Sounds like a lot of the bunk that the "Seattle Times" trotted out after justice Clarence Thomas voted against the lastest affirmative action decision. The editorialists (who were white I may add) stopped just short of calling him a "house n----". With lots of quotables such as "how do you think you got on the court?"...like a minority can't side-step from the offical color-line policy. Sounds kind of racist to me. But that's they way it usually is. One conservative columnist that I like, Michelle Malkin (who is Asian) has been called a "coconut"..because she is "brown on the outside but white on the inside". But that's enough on the politics slant.


Beowulf, welcome to the boards, I think you're my new best friend.

Yeah! I rule! :D Always good to have friends. I've been registered here for a while. But I don't have time to visit much, and I post even less then I visit...so yeah. I think I may be done with this particular thread...but I plan on typing a little something on the "28 Days Later", which I just saw. Good times.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Beowulf
This sort of thinking has never sat well with me. Sounds like a lot of the bunk that the "Seattle Times" trotted out after justice Clarence Thomas voted against the lastest affirmative action decision. The editorialists (who were white I may add) stopped just short of calling him a "house n----". With lots of quotables such as "how do you think you got on the court?"...like a minority can't side-step from the offical color-line policy.

Clarence Thomas got into Yale for a large number of reasons, one of which is that they had an Affirmative Action program running. If anyone truly thinks that Bush Sr picked a youngish Appellate court judge, who was being groomed as a possible Supreme Court Justice years down the line, to replace the only black man on the court who was retiring, solely because he was the best qualified guy... :rolleyes:

Clarence Thomas has benefited from AA of various types, To have him act like he is whee he is out of sheer merit is absurd, and deep down, he knows it.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Grebdron
Heston DIDN'T hold pro-gun rallies in Columbine "almost immediately after." It was a pre-scheduled event, which was dramatically toned down in remembrance of those events. AND IT WAS HELD NEARLY 8 MONTHS AFTER.

http://sobek.colorado.edu/~glenn/media/rmn/0501nra2.shtml
http://www.cnn.com/US/9905/01/nra.protest.02/
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0502nra30.shtml