American Beauty ending.....

[Michael_myers]

I saw this over at imdb.... why was Ricky smiling when he saw Lester's dead body? He should've been screaming or crying at the body of his girlfriend's father. I personally think that Ricky smiled because he knew that Lester was free.

Another one is that Ricky knew death can be beautiful, and as he said, it's as though god is looking you in the eyes for a second, and if you loo closely enough you can see back.

Anyway, this topic is open to discussion. Anyone care to add anything?

[Bullet Tooth Tony]

I think the same as you Michael, could be either. It's such a good ending and I believe that Ricky was happy cause he knew that Lester was free and for a short time in his life he was actually happy again...born again maybe?

Great film.

[KcMsterpce]

I believe Ricky was happy because he saw the happiness in Lester's eyes even in death. He knew that there was no sadness in Lester when he lost his life.
I mean, Ricky thinks a floating plastic bag is poetry, so of course he'd find a dead body 'beautiful'. Whatever. :P

It's an awesome movie, I just totally didn't dig anything about Ricky all that much. I thought it was the most superficial and unrealistic element of the movie. Out of everyone that is focused on, from his father to Lester and his wife and her affair; even Jane and Angela had more to offer to me emotionaly than Ricky.

[Neesh]

Lets be real here.... dont try and pretend that Ricky had some metaphysical aiblity to see wether or not a man who had just been shot in the head was actually happy.... Bullshit. Ricky was smiling and not screaming because he's a sick, twisted fuck.

[The TZA]

Stupid film, stupid ending. If I walked into a room and saw some guy had just shot his brains out I'd shit my pants, not just sit there smiling like a gnome.

And all that crap about a floating carrier bag was a load of gibberish too. What the hell's so beautiful about a carrier bag?

[XvoorheesX]

The whole quote about him seeing the dead woman, and in her eyes he saw god staring back at him.... same thing probably happened when he was seeing this dead guy, or something artsy like that.
I loved the movie, but I found a lot of the Ricky parts way too cheezy.

[Droog989]

Earlier in the film, Ricky was seen filming a dead bird because he saw the beauty in it. I think the same thing can be applied when he sees the body of Lester beacuse well, he's dead. Probably one of the most interresting optimists, ever.

[randythetool]

Those who comment on Lester's happiness are right on the money. Lester was fulfilled for the first time in his life, and was smiling even from beyond the grave. Ricky just smiled back.

[The TZA]

But he was happy in life before he died wasn't he? Why's being alive and happy not beautiful?

[Michael_myers]

Originally posted by The TZA
But he was happy in life before he died wasn't he? Why's being alive and happy not beautiful?

Days before he was killed, Lester was just beginning to be happy, but if Lester had lived on, Carolyn might have divorced him and Jane would've left with Ricky and Lester's life would have been miserable again. Therefore, death was really the only way Lester could be eternally happy, and Ricky somehow knew that. Lester's death was beautiful because Lester was reborn into a world where he could be happy.

At least that's what I think.

[SubMethod]

But he was happy in life before he died wasn't he? Why's being alive and happy not beautiful?

That would matter if Lester had live but he didn't, so it doesn't matter whether or not it's beautiful to be alive and happy or not. Ricky smiled because Lester finally was happy for at least a little while before he was killed. He was able to die happy instead of in depression.

[The TZA]

You could say that about any existence. Tomorrow my parents could tell me they've got cancer and my girlfriend could cheat on me with my brother. That doesn't mean I want some creep to shoot me in the head tonight, my death wouldn't be beautiful.

Unless that's the whole point of the film, that life sucks and only in death can we be happy. But its implied that everyone else lives happily ever after (in their over-the-top stereotypical world full of cartoon characters), and Lester just dies and lives on happy and alone in heaven. Is that right?

Oh I dunno, I don't get it, that's why I prefer films with evil clowns in them. My idea of beautiful is hot 17year old girls running around getting drunk and touching each other, so what do I know?

[Michael_myers]

Thats a way of putting it. We could have all the money, and all the beautiful women but would we really be perfectly happy? NO! Ill never be perfectly happy because my dad died suddenly. It's true that our life may seem good and all, but it is only in death we are ever truly happy.

[Scarface98.9]

One thing to remember is that he was near what would've been for him to be the pinnacle of his happiness. He caught his wife cheating, would've made a fortune in the divorce, was enjoying his time with weed, and had the opportunity (though prevented himself) to be with Angela. And his last action alive was looking at a picture of his family, smiling. Anything else if he lived was misery again, and I think Ricky knew this, so it was basically as what many of you said, he knew he was free to be happy, since the mood would've changed if he did live

[XvoorheesX]

I agree with Scarface 98.9

You could say that about any existence. Tomorrow my parents could tell me they've got cancer and my girlfriend could cheat on me with my brother. That doesn't mean I want some creep to shoot me in the head tonight, my death wouldn't be beautiful.

But what if in that night, you defeated your worst enemy, climbed the highest mountain, got the girl/guy of your dreams, and all that crap. Not only did Lester eliminate all of his problems, but he achieved all of his goals. At that point, right before he was shot, it was the happiest he'd ever be in his life.
I'd like to go out on top too.

[The TZA]

Perhaps, but if we think outside the box, in a few years time he could meet another woman who really loved him, his daughter came back a week later after her stupid teenage running-away-from-home stunt and they grew to understand each other and become friends, and an amazing job came along that he wanted?

So wouldn't that be better, wouldn't it have been better if he lived instead of just thinking life couldn't get any better?

I'm not trying to argue either side, because I haven't seen the film for years and never really liked it, I'm just interested to see how everyone interprets it.

[XvoorheesX]

Well, your idea does make more sense, but it's a movie.
They had to clue it up, and make it dramatic.
Plus, I love movies where the protagonist dies.

[Neesh]

Originally posted by Michael_myers
It's true that our life may seem good and all, but it is only in death we are ever truly happy.
Youre just a child, so I wont bother to counter-argue this; you wouldnt get it for a few more years ;)

This isnt a fantasy movie - theres nothing paranormal, or supernatural about this movie. What happened in it, could have happened to anybody.
Yeah, Ricky smiled at the dead bird, and he smiled at dead Lester. He sees beauty in death. If you guys think this is a noble trait, then..... youre kidding yourselves. Step back into reality. When a normal person sees a man shot in the head, in his kitchen, blood running all over the kitchen table, his first instinct isnt to look into his eyes and try and see "beauty". Its to scream and run for the fucking phone. Ricky wasnt normal. He was a disturbed kid with issues.
Some of you are trying to find a "deep meaning" or "moral" to the story that involves Ricky. Thats kind of screwy.

This is one of my favourite movies in the world, a 10/10 if there ever was one.

[Michael_myers]

Originally posted by Neesh
Youre just a child, so I wont bother to counter-argue this; you wouldnt get it for a few more years ;)



Dont try and pull that you're a child bullshit on me. That's what I think, and I don't think that'll change.

[moviefan80113]

thanks

[Gretchen_Ross]

Originally posted by Neesh
Lets be real here.... dont try and pretend that Ricky had some metaphysical aiblity to see wether or not a man who had just been shot in the head was actually happy.... Bullshit. Ricky was smiling and not screaming because he's a sick, twisted fuck.

well, i don't think it takes a metaphysical ability to see a smile on someone's face...

i mean, since lester was shot in the back of the head he obviously didn't know what was coming. hence, the expression on his face is indicative of his state of mind when he was shot. smile = happy.

there are several reasons why ricky smiled. first of all, if he had flipped out and screamed, that would have been totally against character. to see someone who, for the entire film, exemplified a form of stoicism suddenly have an emotional outburst would have seemed fake.

Originally posted by Neesh
This isnt a fantasy movie - theres nothing paranormal, or supernatural about this movie. What happened in it, could have happened to anybody.
Yeah, Ricky smiled at the dead bird, and he smiled at dead Lester. He sees beauty in death. If you guys think this is a noble trait, then..... youre kidding yourselves. Step back into reality. When a normal person sees a man shot in the head, in his kitchen, blood running all over the kitchen table, his first instinct isnt to look into his eyes and try and see "beauty". Its to scream and run for the fucking phone. Ricky wasnt normal. He was a disturbed kid with issues.
Some of you are trying to find a "deep meaning" or "moral" to the story that involves Ricky. Thats kind of screwy.


another reason ricky smiled was exactly what you said - because he isn't normal. throughout his life, ricky has been subjected to extreme emotional repression and physical abuse. he is therefore indeed a "disturbed kid with issues" (which i don't think is the same as a "sick, twisted fuck"). and to me that is the "deep meaning" or "moral" of ricky's story. because of his dysfunctional upbringing, ricky is emotionally crippled, and while he does take the time to notice everyday miracles that others take for granted, he is ultimately a prisoner of circumstance and his own limitations, like everyone else.

btw, i kind of disagree with your assertion that "This isnt a fantasy movie." there are certain elements in this film that definitely make it rate as at least pointedly theatrical. especially the lighting (using of dimming and spotlights, and not just in the daydream sequences).

[Neesh]

Originally posted by Gretchen_Ross
well, i don't think it takes a metaphysical ability to see a smile on someone's face...

i mean, since lester was shot in the back of the head he obviously didn't know what was coming. hence, the expression on his face is indicative of his state of mind when he was shot. smile = happy.

there are several reasons why ricky smiled. first of all, if he had flipped out and screamed, that would have been totally against character. to see someone who, for the entire film, exemplified a form of stoicism suddenly have an emotional outburst would have seemed fake.

another reason ricky smiled was exactly what you said - because he isn't normal. throughout his life, ricky has been subjected to extreme emotional repression and physical abuse. he is therefore indeed a "disturbed kid with issues" (which i don't think is the same as a "sick, twisted fuck"). and to me that is the "deep meaning" or "moral" of ricky's story. because of his dysfunctional upbringing, ricky is emotionally crippled, and while he does take the time to notice everyday miracles that others take for granted, he is ultimately a prisoner of circumstance and his own limitations, like everyone else.

We are in total agreement on everything. (except that I think he IS a disturbed, and twisted fuck.)
Its just a shame to think someone would walk away from the movie thinking "only in death are we truly ever happy", when the real moral of the story (I'm talking about the big picture) is much, much more positive than that... in fact I think its the opposite.


btw, i kind of disagree with your assertion that "This isnt a fantasy movie." there are certain elements in this film that definitely make it rate as at least pointedly theatrical. especially the lighting (using of dimming and spotlights, and not just in the daydream sequences).
I didnt notice anything in the way of unnatural or exaggerated lighting outside of the daydreaming sequences... Mendes does have a unique way of telling the story though, and it is theatrical. I still dont see it as a fantasy movie though; just a story about a guys life.

[t3h Qster]

well the academy thought it was good enough for the awards it handed to the show.......great movie.....*****

[Scarface98.9]

Originally posted by Neesh
We are in total agreement on everything. (except that I think he IS a disturbed, and twisted fuck.)
Its just a shame to think someone would walk away from the movie thinking "only in death are we truly ever happy", when the real moral of the story (I'm talking about the big picture) is much, much more positive than that... in fact I think its the opposite.

I don't think that's the message Gretchen might've referred to. The movie makes it pretty clear its message is to enjoy life while you can, though I think the impression Ricky got from Spacey's last expression, and possibly knowing what would occur if his life continued is that he's finally eternally happy dead, it's his belief, though not necessarily the movie's message. I hope I made sense

[The TZA]

This thread has awakened another puzzle/problem I have with this fim, regarding whether Ricky is "normal" or not. How come everything in this film is (if not just over-the-top (the theatrical reference someone mention might explain that though)) stereotypical and just so eccentric. I mean that kid was just nuts, his girlfriend was nuts, her best friend was a weird lying slutty/virgin enigma, his wife was mental and during sex she screamed like she was being tickled to death, and as normal as Lester was, he was still pretty weird in his obsession with his former glory.

*SPOILER* And then the whole climax at the end - the homophobic ex-marine is OH GOLLY GOSH revealed to be gay himself. Not very subtle. *end spoiler*

My point is, was this film full of stupid and stereotypical characters on purpose - was it a statement i.e. "the whole world's insane but me?", there's no such thing as normal, or perhaps a parallel between what we perceive as beautiful to what we perceive as normal - or was it just a sloppy and overrated script?

In that respect it reminds me a lot of Taxi Driver. When I watch it I see a whole film full of stupid characters that are cliched and hollow (especially the blonde Barbie doll he dates), but then I get thinking and wonder whether that was the intention of the film, that's the sort of subtextial statement they're trying to make? Or is that giving too much credit to the director and writers?!

I dunno, sorry for rambling, but I guess that's what these sort of films are supposed to make us do. Would be interested to hear what everyone else thinks.

[XvoorheesX]

*SPOILER* And then the whole climax at the end - the homophobic ex-marine is OH GOLLY GOSH revealed to be gay himself. Not very subtle. *end spoiler*
It's a proven statistic that many homphobes are in fact closet homosexuals. Remember that line from Silence of the Lambs?
"He hates his true identity, so he tries to hide it, and by this he covinces himself he's something he's not."

[Gretchen_Ross]

Originally posted by Neesh
I didnt notice anything in the way of unnatural or exaggerated lighting outside of the daydreaming sequences... Mendes does have a unique way of telling the story though, and it is theatrical. I still dont see it as a fantasy movie though; just a story about a guys life.

well, the scene i was thinking of is when thora birch gets dropped off at her house and sees ricky standing on his porch, staring at her. she goes inside, looks out the window and sees that he's still there. she then closes the curtains, and the lights gradually dim as a diffused spotlight brightens around her. there's no way that was "natural."

Originally posted by Scarface98.9
I don't think that's the message Gretchen might've referred to. The movie makes it pretty clear its message is to enjoy life while you can, though I think the impression Ricky got from Spacey's last expression, and possibly knowing what would occur if his life continued is that he's finally eternally happy dead, it's his belief, though not necessarily the movie's message. I hope I made sense

oh definitely. i think the "message," if it can be summed up as such, is to enjoy life as it is, 'cause otherwise you might only see its beauty right before you die (lester), which would obviously be a sucky time for that to happen.

[XvoorheesX]

I'm pretty sure the main message is pretty simple.
Learn to be happy with what. Try to see beauty where it lies, because things can't always be roses.

[Danny L]

Unfortunately I'm unable to watch AMERICAN BEAUTY anymore since I saw NOT ANOTHER TEEN MOVIE and the awful spoofs on the plastic bag and the creepy DV-guy. Sad.

[XvoorheesX]

Unfortunately I'm unable to watch AMERICAN BEAUTY anymore since I saw NOT ANOTHER TEEN MOVIE and the awful spoofs on the plastic bag and the creepy DV-guy. Sad.
Well, I'm glad I didn't see that.

[The TZA]

This thread made me decide to check out American Beauty for the first time in over a year last night, and I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Maybe it was the mood I was in or where I am right now in my whole life, but it did get to me. Even the distracting BRIGHT RED EVERYTHING overcame my cynicism and helped add to the feel of the film.

I give it a strong 8, probably a 9, but I still am unsure about the Ricky character and his parents, they were just too weird for me, even if some of the "beauty" preachings were effective and true. I just didn't like the homophobe becomes gay arc, it's too easy.

Maybe if the ending wasn't so ambiguous I would be more happy to give it a 9, but I just didn't like the message, which as best as I can interpret is: Lester was at his happiest in life, but killed on a high, which means he won't be able to go on and enjoy his new lease of life. Supposedly a beautiful and fitting conclusion, but I take it as a very bitter and bleak look at life.

Oh, and nomination for the worst line of dialogue in a film goes to Thora Birch's character: "Look, just don't fuck my dad, okay? Please!" LMAO

P.S. Not Another Teen Movie is hilarious.

[Neesh]

Originally posted by Scarface98.9
I don't think that's the message Gretchen might've referred to.

My post was based on the message from Michael_myers, not Gretchen. I'm positive Gretchen 'gets it'.
Originally posted by Gretchen_Ross
well, the scene i was thinking of is when thora birch gets dropped off at her house and sees ricky standing on his porch, staring at her. she goes inside, looks out the window and sees that he's still there. she then closes the curtains, and the lights gradually dim as a diffused spotlight brightens around her. there's no way that was "natural."
Wow. The lighting change in that particular scene was
veeeery subtle. I cant say for sure, but it looked to me like this is what happened: as Thora turns around from the window, theres not enough light on her face, so the DP opened up the iris on the camera a little bit to brighten up the areas where there was already a little bit of light. Either that or he did turn up some lighting just so we could see her expression. But I didnt notice any "spotlight".
oh definitely. i think the "message," if it can be summed up as such, is to enjoy life as it is, 'cause otherwise you might only see its beauty right before you die (lester), which would obviously be a sucky time for that to happen.
I walked away with this message: Life is short. Enjoy it while it lasts. :)

[imkmk]

fucking awesome movie one of my top tens

I think ricky (who was seriously messed up) looked at
life different and he looked beyond the dead guy and saw
the bueaty of how free Spacy's character had become
or some shit like that

awesome movie the first time I saw it I was so drunk
I thought his wife killed him and when I saw it the
second time I saw Ricky's dad kill him I shit my pants cause
I had it in my head his wife was the killer

[gyro_44]

Interesting discussion on one of the best movies I've ever seen.

I agree with what many here said... that Ricky was smiling because he saw the smile on Lester's face. He saw that, in death, Lester was a happy man.

Ricky had learned to see beauty even in death, so when he saw Lester with that slight smile on his face I think he was at ease because Lester had, in a sense, been "freed".