Mordum - This Sounds Like Some Seriously Fucked Up Shit!!!

[Psychocandy]

http://www.toetagpictures.com/images/mordumcover.jpg

I bought the latest issue of Rue Morgue today andm as I always do, settled myself down to read it from cover to cover. There's a review of a new underground horror flick called Mordum in the magazine and for the first time in a long while I think i've come across something that I wouldn't be able to watch. This sounds like some pretty rough stuff. I've managed to find some reviews dotted around the net. I'll paste them below to give y'all an idea of what this movie is all about.

First up is a review from Horror-Asylum.com...

Imagine this. One of your friends shows up at your place in the middle of the night, out of breath, and in a major panic. You are told that they hold in their hands the Holy Grail of Extreme Horror, a tape that captures the essence of what it must be like to follow around a small, but devoted group of serial killers and rapists. It is stated that if you want to see the tape, it must be watched right there and then. You ask why, and they tell you it is out of Fear. Fear that someone might actually see or hear you watching this tape, freak out, and call the cops to report you. You start to laugh and think to yourself that it can’t be that bad, that you are no wimp, that you can handle it. Right? This is a question that you must be very honest in answering to yourself if you choose to see August Underground's Mordum.

The movie starts off very cold, with just a snowy screen. Before long, in the static, you hear someone talking and can kind of make out a few quick bursts of images (These shots make sense on the second viewing). Within a couple of seconds the video starts, as well as one of the weirdest, sickest journey’s that I have ever been taken on. Mordum is not a conventional film in the least. We go from scene to scene, just like the killers were taping a play by play of what their group has been up to. And I will say this much, this group has been very busy!

The main characters in Mordum include two guys, a girl, and a lot of violence. In the 84 minutes that contains Mordum, the filmmakers manage to squeeze almost every offensive behavior known to man within its walls. Torture, Rape, Murder, Incest, Masturbation, Disembowlment, and a Pedophile scene that will forever be etched in my mind! All are done with the best special effects I have ever seen in a film of this nature (Jerami Cruise, graduated from the Art Institute of Pittsburgh and Tom Savini's School of Special Make-Up). Just last month at the films world premier, it won the best special effects award at this years Calgary International Horror Festival, Exofest II. Well deserved and truly stomach turning! This should prove to be the first of many awards that these fearless filmmakers should be awarded in the year to come. I also believe that the cast’s (especially Mikey Maggot’s) performances, should not go without merit as this film makes the rounds in the independent horror film circuit.

With all of this being said, it is my belief that this is not a movie as much as it is an experience. Putting into words describing the horrible acts this group do to the majority of people they come into contact with not only cheapens this review, but will wreck the entire experience for those of you out there brave enough to seek Mordum out. This is a work of art that should only be seen by those who are mentally stable and well over the age of 18.

OVERALL SUMMARY
I have been a fan of underground extreme horror for a long time, and this is the first film that I caught myself looking away from the screen out of full disgust. Mordum not only demands your attention, but also will leave you feeling dirty and confused once the journey ends. This puzzlement will remain till repeated viewings. Mordum has a well-crafted story that will not be understood by all. Very complex indeed. I applaud Fred and Michael for being brave enough to do what no one else has done before, and that is push the envelope so much further than anyone else in the history of film. Mordum is the new standard for extreme horror that should prove unsurpassed till the next August Underground experience. This is the new centerpiece of any extreme horror fans collection.

You have been warned!

Here's a short article from ToeTagPictures.com...

"August Underground’s Mordum is the follow-up to the as yet unreleased underground horror classic August Underground. Lensed in Pittsburgh on digital video, then degraded to look like "found footage," Mordum is the story of three sick young serial killers who film their acts of violence and torture. The film is peppered with outstanding makeup effects and grisly set pieces, and the performances from Michael T. Schneider (A Tribute to Sanity), Fred Vogel (the original August Underground), and newcomer Cristie Whiles, are daring and unorthodox. The filmmakers strike an odd but compelling linear narrative, while simultaneously creating a disorienting and chaotic environment within which the three psychos wreak their madness. A fourth sicko, played by Killjoy of the band Necrophagia, is introduced near the film’s climax. Horror realism at its finest, the August Underground series has the potential to become North America’s answer to the popular Japanese Guinea Pig series. Fans of confrontational cinema take notice: Mordum is a harrowing and brutal film that will surprise even the most jaded horror fan."

Now...does that sound like some messed up shit or does that sound like some messed up shit?

[Psychocandy]

Here's the article scanned from Rue Morgue magazine. Check the attachment.

[countchocula]

It wasn't long ago that I had the same reaction after reading about the first August Underground film. Much like you, I wasn't sure if I'd be able to stomach it. Mordum doesn't sound any easier to digest. I don't see these flicks being sold commercially anytime soon, but even if they were, I'd be apprehensive about giving them a shot. Yeah, I'm exceedingly curious, but is such an endurance test necessary? I'm jaded enough to cinematic violence as it is, and I'd only feel like shit afterwards.

[RavenBlade]

I couldn't agree more Count.

I can only imagine half of the scenes
in this movie, and I think that's
all I really want to do, imagine
it, because like you, I'd feel like
utter shit afterwards.

I mean I felt gross after reading
that there is some sort
of pedophiliac scene in it,
but it also peaked my interest,
not that I'm into that sort of thing,
but rather to see how they handle
such a demented thing.

I'm not really into movies,
that like to push to see
how much your brain
can handle the subject
matter, it's something
I see as being akin to
torture, a slow and painful
ordeal, where you pray
for release.

But that's just me.

Raven

[Psychocandy]

Ravenblade/Countchocula...

I pretty much agree with everything you both wrote. What I can't decide is, if someone handed me a copy of this movie, would I watch it or not? I think curiosity would get the best of me. I'm intrigued by the comments about the quality of the special effects. I'm an effects junkie and the more old school the effects the happier I am. On the low budget they obviously must have had to work with I can only imagine that the effects will be the purest of old school style. It was the review in Rue Morgue that really hit home though. The dude is obviously a gore hound but had to stop the movie a few times. More than the other two reviewers that guy succeeded in getting across how gruelling the experience of watching this flick really is. I've always claimed that providing a movie adheres to two rules then i'll give it a go. The two rules are as follows...

1. No animals are hurt

2. No-one is forced to do anything they don't want to do

I think this movie would push all the wrong buttons though. It sounds truly vile. The sort of thing that would likely have the police kicking your door down and land your name in the papers (hey...it's happened before in the UK).

So...I for one will give it a miss. But if the opportunity presented itself...well...I honestly don't know...

[countchocula]

I abide by similar rules, and while Mordum doesn't actually break one, it would be just as laborious to watch as Cannibal Holocaust or Nekromantik. An animal death would cement my opinion, but as it stands, I'm on the fence. I don't think that I'd want to subject myself to such atrocities, but it all goes back to curiosity. I'm especially curious as to how the "pedophile" scenario plays out. Did they actually use a child actor? If so, what fucking parent would approve of it??? Acting or not, that's a cast iron way to scar a child's psyche.

Is there social commentary behind any of this or is it simply hollow exploitation? It sounds like the latter, an excuse to shock. Not exactly a venerable cause.

[someguy]

I think that the scene would involve a dead child(judging by how sick it is).

[heretic]

Is there any way of gettin to see it?

[Juice]

If there is, I will see it. It sounds like a challenge to watch this movie, maybe it will become the first one I'll look away from out of disgust.

[Nekroman]

If this is anywhere near as good as the first August Undergorund, count me in! August Underground was the first movie in a long while to actually have me shaking my head! I've seen Cannibal Holocaust, Men Behind the Sun, most of the nastier mondo flicks out there, Scrapbook, Salo, etc. This one deserves a spot among those sickos. I can only hope the sequel is as demented as the first! I'll watch it and let the curious know!
BTW, it my own defense I know the previous paragraph might paint a picture of me as being severely twisted in the head. I'm not. I just am desensitized and it was a rough road to get to this point. But remember. This is not a real snuff movie. Everybody got paid to act in these movies (makes me wonder how they convinced some of them to do this stuff). The very reason for these movies to exist is to shock. They have a reputation because they are designed to repulse and get to people. This kind of word of mouth is the best advertising a movie could ask for.

[Psychocandy]

Nekroman...

Read the scanned review from Rue Morgue that I posted at the top of this thread. The dude who reviewed it had seen the original August Underground flick and states pretty clearly that the second is a quantum leap in terms of sickness over the first. Sounds like a rough ride.

[Nekroman]

Yeah, I read the review and I based my statements on it. Seriously, I love a good challenge and I never back away from a movie if it's supposed to be messed up. I really hope it is! For me sometimes I feel like a drug addict that has gone so far off the deep end that I need stronger and stronger stuff to get the same effect as the tamer stuff used to give me.
If this movie is anywhere near as nasty as the reviewer suggested I may have found a new high.

[C-Desecration-]

I really hope it is! For me sometimes I feel like a drug addict that has gone so far off the deep end that I need stronger and stronger stuff to get the same effect as the tamer stuff used to give me.



Oh my . . .


On another note, I doubt I'd ever lay eyes on this flick because (1) I'd be too ashamed of myself if I orderd it and (2) I'd probably feel like shit afterwards. Just reading about it made me feel like shit . . . but it seems like the reviewers always mention a plot. So does it have a good/decent storyline? I don't exactly see how someone could enjoy watching a woman get fed spoonfulls of her own shit, corpse rapings, murder, and so forth without a plot. Of course, it would have to be a revolutionary, spectacular work of screenwriting if I'd come within a thousand feet of it.

Shame on you all.
As for this not being a snuff film, well, in a way it is. It's for people who get off on seeing other people tortued. It doesn't matter if it's real or not.

Sick, sick, sick (not you schmoes, the movie).

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
Shame on you all.

I hope you just forgot to put a smiley after this.

[Nekroman]

You can say what you will, but the way I look at it, it's sort of like people who eat those extremely hot peppers. You know they can't actually enjoy it but they do just because they can. It's something very rough to endure but the very fact that they can manage something most people can't feels like a small accomplishment. I'm not watching these movies and getting all turned on by it. I get as repulsed as anybody else. but that is the goal of the filmmakers. There are always going to be people who want to shock other people. It's a way of being remembered for better or worse. honestly. If these guys made some piece of crap video with lame acting and special effects, it would be long forgotten but if you make something very realistic and shocking as hell, you'll be remembered. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm simply trying to explain why somebody might make something like it. If it's very nature is to shock and offend, then applaud it since it's apparently succeeding.
Plotwise, no, although I can't speak for Mordum, August Underground was basically presented as a home video shot by two psychos. It does look genuine too. Looks like something that might have somehow gotten smuggled out of an evidence room.

[C-Desecration-]

Actually, I didn't forget to add a ;) or something. But, I did want to put in a "Now I don't want to pop in here and start acting all high and mighty . . .".

And, obviously, saying 'Shame on you' was more intended at the makers, I suppose, than the schmoes (I specified that with the sick, sick, sick statement). While I do agree with what I said, I am by no means putting down you schmoes. I might be questioning you, but not attacking. Hell, I'm in a horror forum, movies that routinely enjoy showing teens getting torn in half, rape, torture scenes, etc.

I don't know. I've never exactly met a 'gore-hound', but they've been mentioned in these forums, and I'm just a little weary of people like that. I think they're sick. Sure, the opinion is without a basis, but that's just my feelings.
No harm, no foul.
I'm just curious as to the reasoning of seeing people getting brutally slaughtered because "Can I handle it or not?" Wondering how much human suffering you can stomach just seems like an odd hobby. Again, I'm not trying to offend you two, I'm just saying . . .

[Nekroman]

I suppose it is an odd hobby. But if I ever saw (or accidentally saw) and actual snuff film where the people were killed for the sake of the entertainment, I'd be upset to say the least. I really doubt (I'm only speaking for me of course) anybody that watches these harder movies does it for any kind of sick gratification. Like I said. It's more of an endurance test than a pleasure experience. Hell, I've seen a few movies that go beyond what I'm describing here. I would be too embarassed to post the titles of these movies in this forum. Plus Arrow would probably ban me for even describing them!
But it's all good. One thing I love about my country is the freedom to watch what we want and express ourselves freely without getting the crap beat out of us!

[MessiahOfEvil]

I have to agree with Nekroman on that one. I constantly try to find myself the sickest and most depraved shit that I can find (except for ones like Squirmfest, I'm not too into watching women drink maggot and diarrhea smoothies). It's to the point now where I laugh at most of these movies. It would have to be pretty sick to make me cringe or turn away, much less turn it off and never finish it. The only movies that will actually make me sick in some instances are the mondo films. and like nekroman said, it's a challenge i'm always up for. It's like being a drug addict and you need your next fix, each time it's a little bit stronger until you go all out.

[Jewbo]

i would jump at the chance to see this film. i seen traces of death and tho i didnt agree with it at all it didnt bother me and i could even eat while watching it. yeah i know im sick.

[Nekroman]

All of us "sickos" could have a stomach wrenching movie fest that separates the boys from the men. Headlining would be Mordum followed by some of our other favorites. Naked Blood, Red Room, Salo, Kichiku, August Underground, etc. It would be fun.

[Jewbo]

Originally posted by Nekroman
All of us "sickos" could have a stomach wrenching movie fest that separates the boys from the men. Headlining would be Mordum followed by some of our other favorites. Naked Blood, Red Room, Salo, Kichiku, August Underground, etc. It would be fun.

that would b really cool. id be up for a ight of films like that.

[countchocula]

Originally posted by Nekroman
All of us "sickos" could have a stomach wrenching movie fest that separates the boys from the men.

I'm not quite sure what you meant by that, but I hope you aren't trying to turn these flicks into phallic symbols. There's nothing "macho" about watching people eat shit.

[blagtr99]

It seems we are drawing a line here guys. :D

TRUE horror fans can handle anything that has to do with HORROR, no matter how exteme it is.

I'm with NECROMAN, I'll make the popcorn!!!

[countchocula]

"True" horror fans enjoy horror films. It's as simple as that. Just because some of us have reservations about watching a graphic depiction of pedophilia, it doesn't mean that we aren't "true" horror fans (a classification that doesn't exist).

[Jewbo]

Originally posted by countchocula
"True" horror fans enjoy horror films. It's as simple as that. Just because some of us have reservations about watching a graphic depiction of pedophilia, it doesn't mean that we aren't "true" horror fans (a classification that doesn't exist).
i agree with u there count but every review i have read about the film has been pretty good and praising so it sounds like it can be viewed an more levels than just 'its really gory'.

[Nekroman]

By it's very definition, "horror" is supposed to shock, to horrify. That's exactly what these movies do. In my eyes, all shocking, graphic movies are horror movies regardless of whether they are kitchy R-rated teen flicks, real mondo flicks, or otherwise. It's true that there are different categories of that horror. What it boils down to is if this ain't your cup of tea, don't watch it. If it is, then enjoy.

[ofmknockoff]

I think I'm going to go order this now, just to see if I can take it. It is an indurance test, I'm not sure If I really want to see this movie but I can take anything, or so I think. But I will finish this movie any way possible. And by the way, you can order it off of:

Toe Tag pictures (http://www.toetagpictures.com)

EDIT: I should have checked before I said someting, the video is not yet availible for sale but the original August Underground is.

[Elgyn]

I love horror, I am a "true horror fan", but in no way do I want to watch someone picking maggots off the body of a decapitated child.
That does NOT sound like entertainment to me - I have a 2-year-old son and I would find said scene revolting.
In fact, I would probably be ANGRY after watching it (which means, oddly enough, that the filmmakers have done their job).

There really ARE sickos out there who kill children and I doubt any of the parents of those children would find this trash entertaining either.

Some of you are comparing these movies to a 'drug fix'. Well if that`s the case, I`d much rather sit back and do some herion.

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by Elgyn
I love horror, I am a "true horror fan", but in no way do I want to watch someone picking maggots off the body of a decapitated child.
That does NOT sound like entertainment to me - I have a 2-year-old son and I would find said scene revolting.
In fact, I would probably be ANGRY after watching it (which means, oddly enough, that the filmmakers have done their job).

There really ARE sickos out there who kill children and I doubt any of the parents of those children would find this trash entertaining either.

Some of you are comparing these movies to a 'drug fix'. Well if that`s the case, I`d much rather sit back and do some herion.

hor·ror [ háwrər ]

noun (plural hor·rors)

1. intense fear or shock: a very strong, painful feeling of fear, shock, or disgust

2. intense dislike or dismay: a feeling of distress or distaste
He has a horror of spiders.

3. something causing horror: something, or an aspect of something, that causes a feeling of great fear or disgust
the horrors of war

4. something unpleasant: a very unpleasant or unattractive thing ( informal )

[blagtr99]

So fred Vogel is making "real horror" films.
ones that shock, disgust and make us scared.
AWESOME!!!!

Necromans right, if you don't like, don't watch.
you've read the reviews.

:D
By the way,
I have a 4 year son, and love him to death.
And i can seperate fact from fiction.
So watching these extreme horror films doesn't bother me.
Maby it's the ones who who have a problem with it that have something to hide. :)

[C-Desecration-]

Maby it's the ones who who have a problem with it that have something to hide.


Nah.
The ones who don't like watching stuff like that just happen to be people who also don't have conversations along the lines of this:

" Hey man, wanna' watch some woman get raped?"
" Do I!"
" Oh, and this kid gets maggots eaten off of his corpse!"
" Fuck dude, I gotta' see that!"
:rolleyes:

Sorry, I don't want to start insulting you gore-hounds or anything. I usually check out movies for simple entertainment--that's what they are, nothing more, nothing less. Then again, I'm a pretty casual movie fan (I got about six movie DVDs total), and I don't care to waste my time watching some horrible, vile act to see if I can "handle" it.
Sadly, this is the shit that horror is stereotyped for. No wonder this is the bastard genre . . .

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
Nah.
The ones who don't like watching stuff like that just happen to be people who also don't have conversations along the lines of this:

" Hey man, wanna' watch some woman get raped?"
" Do I!"
" Oh, and this kid gets maggots eaten off of his corpse!"
" Fuck dude, I gotta' see that!"
:rolleyes:

Sorry, I don't want to start insulting you gore-hounds or anything. I usually check out movies for simple entertainment--that's what they are, nothing more, nothing less. Then again, I'm a pretty casual movie fan (I got about six movie DVDs total), and I don't care to waste my time watching some horrible, vile act to see if I can "handle" it.
Sadly, this is the shit that horror is stereotyped for. No wonder this is the bastard genre . . .

You may not want to be insulting...but that's what you are being in an offhand sort of way. I watched, for example, Irreversible, and was shocked numb by what I saw. Same goes for Henry: Portrait Of A Serial Killer. I can't say I enjoyed either of these movies in a conventional sense but they did impress me. They impressed me because the film makers involved were unafraid to show the stuff that happens every damn day in real life and show it in a way that made me want to look away from the TV. They were challenging. A movie doesn't have to be entertaining to have a purpose. As for the stereotyping of the genre. I'm not even going to start getting into the complete antipathy I feel for the majority of the mainstream media and it's past, present and future opinions of this genre and the extent to which it is responsible for societies ills. It's all useless tabloid bullshit that they use as a scapegoat because they are too damn lazy to cast a wider net and explain the real reasons for the violence in todays society. But i've discussed that at length in past threads and, frankly, it's like shouting into a void where some people are concerned.

Oh...and i've NEVER had a conversation along the lines of the one you mentioned in your post. Not even close.

[bowieee]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
Nah.
The ones who don't like watching stuff like that just happen to be people who also don't have conversations along the lines of this:

" Hey man, wanna' watch some woman get raped?"
" Do I!"
" Oh, and this kid gets maggots eaten off of his corpse!"
" Fuck dude, I gotta' see that!"
:rolleyes:

Sorry, I don't want to start insulting you gore-hounds or anything. I usually check out movies for simple entertainment--that's what they are, nothing more, nothing less. Then again, I'm a pretty casual movie fan (I got about six movie DVDs total), and I don't care to waste my time watching some horrible, vile act to see if I can "handle" it.
Sadly, this is the shit that horror is stereotyped for. No wonder this is the bastard genre . . .

What the fuck is going on in this thread?

Whats with all this machismo shit and finger pointing at gore hounds. Just because your a gore hound it doesn't mean you are a fucked up person that loooves to talk about rape and dead children. The same goes for the ones who like sitting down to see if they can get through a sick disturbing movie. Doing that doesn't make you a man, just a fan of shocking cinema. In no way shape or form does it make you "the true horror fan". Horror is a genre that is shunned and needs as many fans as it can get. If someone really appreciates just one horror movie they are just as much of a fan in my eyes as the next.

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by bowieee
What the fuck is going on in this thread?

Whats with all this machismo shit and finger pointing at gore hounds. Just because your a gore hound it doesn't mean you are a fucked up person that loooves to talk about rape and dead children. The same goes for the ones who like sitting down to see if they can get through a sick disturbing movie. Doing that doesn't make you a man, just a fan of shocking cinema. In no way shape or form does it make you "the true horror fan". Horror is a genre that is shunned and needs as many fans as it can get. If someone really appreciates just one horror movie they are just as much of a fan in my eyes as the next.

Yup!!! I'm starting to wish I hadn't bothered posting this thread.

[C-Desecration-]

Okay *takes a deep breath* . . .

My dialogue was trying to reflect the views above with people wanting (jokingly, yes) to sit down and seperate "the men from the boys" to see who can stomach what.

And Candy, some movies SHOULD be commended for trying something different. There are many ways of doing that. The first black hero, the first (realistically) gay couple, so on and so forth, doing things that open the doors for others. Then, you can go to the horror side, and say that, yes, people can begin to dig deeper into terror. Movies circulating around snuff films (8mm), movies depicting rape (irreversible--which I actually might see), and such. But standing around and going "Hey, I've never seen a woman spoon-fed he own shit! Let's do it!" isn't a "breakthrough" that should be commended--such as Mordum. Irreversible, for instance, isn't a "gimmick". It isn't, basically, saying "We show rape! Check it out! Look how 'extreme' we are!", because there is a legit plot circulating around the events. In most 'gore-hound' flicks, rape WOULD be a gimmick. That's all there is. Remember, we aren't talking about a film with good characters and a thought-provoking plot--this is a film of people going around and torturing/murdering others. And I, for one, don't care for that.

. . . and I actually like the way this thread is going.
It's interesting.
Oh, and bowiee, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said gore-hounds were fucked up people. As stated above, the dialogue was to reflect the thought of teaming up to watch a bunch of sick films to see who could handle it. That's it. In my opinion, I just see something weird about people who "like" all the disgusting rape/torture/molestation scenes (in essence, a gore-hound).

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
And Candy, some movies SHOULD be commended for trying something different. There are many ways of doing that. The first black hero, the first (realistically) gay couple, so on and so forth, doing things that open the doors for others. Then, you can go to the horror side, and say that, yes, people can begin to dig deeper into terror. Movies circulating around snuff films (8mm), movies depicting rape (irreversible--which I actually might see), and such. But standing around and going "Hey, I've never seen a woman spoon-fed he own shit! Let's do it!" isn't a "breakthrough" that should be commended--such as Mordum. Irreversible, for instance, isn't a "gimmick". It isn't, basically, saying "We show rape! Check it out! Look how 'extreme' we are!", because there is a legit plot circulating around the events. In most 'gore-hound' flicks, rape WOULD be a gimmick. That's all there is. Remember, we aren't talking about a film with good characters and a thought-provoking plot--this is a film of people going around and torturing/murdering others. And I, for one, don't care for that.

Just in case you didn't read this paragraph from the review I posted above...i'll bring it to your attention...

I have been a fan of underground extreme horror for a long time, and this is the first film that I caught myself looking away from the screen out of full disgust. Mordum not only demands your attention, but also will leave you feeling dirty and confused once the journey ends. This puzzlement will remain till repeated viewings. Mordum has a well-crafted story that will not be understood by all. Very complex indeed. I applaud Fred and Michael for being brave enough to do what no one else has done before, and that is push the envelope so much further than anyone else in the history of film. Mordum is the new standard for extreme horror that should prove unsurpassed till the next August Underground experience. This is the new centerpiece of any extreme horror fans collection.

It's this paragraph and some points brought up in the Rue Morgue review that have me interested in this movie. I'll admit that I would likely hesitate to actually watch it if the opportunity arose. Not out of any outrage at the content but because I honestly think it would make me sick. The above paragraph does, however, suggest that there is more to this movie than just blood and violence.

[C-Desecration-]

Hmm . . . on this very thread I actually asked if it has a plot, and basically I got a "no", and that it's just a bunch of sickos killing people.

I (maybe) stand corrected.
If anyone sees this put up a review.

[bowieee]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-

Oh, and bowiee, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said gore-hounds were fucked up people. As stated above, the dialogue was to reflect the thought of teaming up to watch a bunch of sick films to see who could handle it. That's it. In my opinion, I just see something weird about people who "like" all the disgusting rape/torture/molestation scenes (in essence, a gore-hound).

It sure as hell comes off like that from your posts. You need to chill on the blanket statements that are taking shots at the viewers and focus on the films. A direct quote from you in this thread:

"I don't know. I've never exactly met a 'gore-hound', but they've been mentioned in these forums, and I'm just a little weary of people like that. I think they're sick. Sure, the opinion is without a basis, but that's just my feelings."

that sounds like your calling them fucked up to me. But I'm sorry I put words in your mouth your just calling them sick.

[Nekroman]

I'm really taking an interest in how this thread is going. This movie has sparked the great debate. So as it was made to shock and get people talking, it has. And none of us have even seen it yet!
Let's try to look at this another way. let's use the comparison I made earlier to hot peppers. Peppers come in varyingd degrees of spiciness. Some people (like me) don't care for much spice and stop at a jalapeno. Others go to red chile peppers and call it a night. Still others go to habeneros and puff out a little smoke. My point is, it's perfectly cool to decide your own limit. But because I may decide to go the total distance and watch this stuff doesn't make me twisted. It gives me an iron stomach, yes, but not twisted.
We also have to remember the difference between fantasy and reality. This is a fictitous movie. If it were real, the difference for the viewer would be the same as if the pepper eater ate actual fire instead of a pepper. It's much "safer" to watch fiction (althoguh I've seen my fair share of mondo). It ain't real.
No matter how messed up the victims got in this movie or others like it you gotta remember when the director yelled "cut" the victims got up, washed off the stage blood, and went home to have a calzone.

[countchocula]

Originally posted by Psychocandy
hor·ror [ háwrər ]

noun (plural hor·rors)

1. intense fear or shock: a very strong, painful feeling of fear, shock, or disgust

2. intense dislike or dismay: a feeling of distress or distaste
He has a horror of spiders.

3. something causing horror: something, or an aspect of something, that causes a feeling of great fear or disgust
the horrors of war

4. something unpleasant: a very unpleasant or unattractive thing ( informal )

I find that the definition of horror is relative and personal to each horror fan. I don't care what Webster has to say about this. To me, horror is an alternative art form, an insolent outlet for artistic expression that forces the viewer (or reader) to expand his/her imagination. Yeah, sleaze has something to do with it, as does a primal impulse to welcome sin, but by and large, I'm not a genre fan because I like to be revolted on a daily basis. I'll say it again – "true" horror fans enjoy horror films. That's all there is to it. In a sense, it takes more audacity to know what I may or may not be able to stomach than it does to simply welter in whatever filth is lobbed my way.

[Juice]

Originally posted by Psychocandy
hor·ror [ háwrər ]

noun (plural hor·rors)

1. intense fear or shock: a very strong, painful feeling of fear, shock, or disgust

2. intense dislike or dismay: a feeling of distress or distaste
He has a horror of spiders.

3. something causing horror: something, or an aspect of something, that causes a feeling of great fear or disgust
the horrors of war

4. something unpleasant: a very unpleasant or unattractive thing ( informal )

That's horror all right, but a horror MOVIE originally means a movie that's out to scare you. It has nothing to do with gore and shocks.

Movies that are out to disgust you are splatter flicks. So I guess you could call this Mordum horror splatter.

[Juice]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
As for this not being a snuff film, well, in a way it is. It's for people who get off on seeing other people tortued. It doesn't matter if it's real or not.


It does. If you watch real snuff, you support an industry of people getting killed, so you're indirectly a murderer.

If you watch this, you just support pretty sick movies and you don't hurt anbody.

[C-Desecration-]

Wow, this thread is certainly bumping up my time at the boards--I agree with Nekro--I like where this is going.


We also have to remember the difference between fantasy and reality. This is a fictitous movie. If it were real, the difference for the viewer would be the same as if the pepper eater ate actual fire instead of a pepper. It's much "safer" to watch fiction (althoguh I've seen my fair share of mondo). It ain't real.


That is true, to a point. For instance, let's say, hypothetically, that there is a movie there just shows a man getting shot, raped, sexually degraded, then killed. The end. It was all shot on a set, with actors, and a director. So, in essence, nobody was hurt. But does that necessarily mean that it's "ok" to have fun watching? Now I know that isn't exactly the point you were after, so I'm sort of branching off. The only problem I would have (which would be a minor 'wow this is kind of strange' sot of problem), if an individual that enjoys the movie described above. It is fake, yes, but the for the viewer, mentally, that isn't always true. When we watch movies, most times we are not sitting there the whole time going "Hmm, I wonder how they shot that?"--we allow ourselves to become immersed, so, for a finite time, this fictional world is reality. Just what certain films represent is vile enough, and if an individual enjoys those representations, well, I got a prob with that.

that sounds like your calling them fucked up to me. But I'm sorry I put words in your mouth your just calling them sick.

Ah, I see what you did there! Clever! Sadly that's actually true (so it makes it kind of ridiculous how hotly I refused calling them fucked up, hmm?)--I do think that they are sick. Maybe not the entire person, but that particular part of them that takes enjoyment from seeing gruesome acts is, in my opinion, sick. And I highly doubt someone could take a deep-rooted offense to that. This is an internet message board, after all.

And Juice, the snuff/non-snuff thing you mentioned I think kind of missed the point. I was saying that people who'd purchase a snuff film (this is all "if", because I doubt they exist) are people who'd get enjoyment out of seeing a human being killed. Right? Okay, so a "gore-hound", if I undestand the meaning, would mean people who enjoy watching absolutely disgusting things on film. Now, those disgusting things aren't real, and the gore-hound knows this, so obviously they can handle what they see. After all, it's on a set, right? But if they ENJOY watching the gore, then that is not too different from people who'd ENJOY seeing a human ebing killed for real. Anyone who enjoys seeing the death of innocent people, fake or not.

Damn this thread and its addictive conversation!

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
And Juice, the snuff/non-snuff thing you mentioned I think kind of missed the point. I was saying that people who'd purchase a snuff film (this is all "if", because I doubt they exist) are people who'd get enjoyment out of seeing a human being killed. Right? Okay, so a "gore-hound", if I undestand the meaning, would mean people who enjoy watching absolutely disgusting things on film. Now, those disgusting things aren't real, and the gore-hound knows this, so obviously they can handle what they see. After all, it's on a set, right? But if they ENJOY watching the gore, then that is not too different from people who'd ENJOY seeing a human ebing killed for real. Anyone who enjoys seeing the death of innocent people, fake or not.

Look...I for one enjoy watching violent movies of all sorts. Whether it's the latest Tarantino or Scorcese flick or a low budget horror gem with a plentiful dose of realistic and brutal mayhem. But...when I see something in real life...be it something as small as a cut on a finger or a broken arm I get a sympathetic shiver. It's called empathy. I don't get it with movies because even though I get absorbed in what i'm watching, the part of my brain that separates fantasy from reality is engaged at all times. You can't switch that shit off. Sure i'll feel sympathy and even sadness for the character and their plight but it feels different. I always know that it's just an effect that i'm watching. Now, if what I was watching was a real death then I would have a very extreme emotional reaction (something that I don't get from watching a violent movie no matter how realistic). Do I have proof of this? The only time I ever saw any footage of anyone dying on TV was when the tragedy happened in New York a couple of years ago. There was footage on the news of people throwing themselves out of windows and that alone sent me into state of shock that was followed by a spell of depression that lasted days. I have had further opportunities via certain documentaries (there's one available in the UK that contains footage of executions) but I just can't watch that kind of stuff. Not even for educational reasons. So...there's a world of difference between most people who enjoy watching simulated violence and people who get a kick out of watching people really being injured or dying.

[Nekroman]

OK, now I'm starting to understand what some of you are saying. You're saying that if I get my kicks by say, watching a woman get her guts yanked out of her crotch (I have seen that in some movies) then I'm a bit deranged.
That could be true. But there's more than one type of enjoyment. I enjoy these movies for their sheer shock value. I gasp in disbelief when I see a line crossed that I haven't seen crossed before.
Then there's the OTHER type of person that I think is being described. The other person would see this violence and stuff and pitch a tent in their pants. I'm clearly not one of those people! I always think of that scene in 8MM where Nick Cage is getting into the underground film crowd and he sees some of those guys getting *ahem* excited shall we say by the movies. These people are also likely to fantasize about doing some of these acts in reality. I agree. They are f*cked up!
I know a lot of you guys. Clearly none of us fall into the second category (I hope!). :D

[Elgyn]

Post deleted

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by Elgyn
And frankly, I have to question how on earth ANY parent would WANT to watch children being killed (depicted realistically).
And to think you suggest that I`m the one who has "something to hide".

I've said this before. Horror movies are supposed to tap into our deepest fears. What does a parent fear the most? A major part of the movie Pet Sematary revolves around this particular subject and examines the effect such a loss has on the parents. The movie was all the more effective as a horror movie as a result. It's one of only a handful of horror movies that I can honestly say scares the shit out of me and leaves me feeling depressed (this goes tenfold for the book). What about the images of the blood splattered little twin girls in The Shining. That image stayed with me for a long time.

[C-Desecration-]

Look...I for one enjoy watching violent movies of all sorts. Whether it's the latest Tarantino or Scorcese flick or a low budget horror gem with a plentiful dose of realistic and brutal mayhem. But...when I see something in real life...be it something as small as a cut on a finger or a broken arm I get a sympathetic shiver. It's called empathy.

. . . candy, either you COMPLETELY missed my point by a good thousand miles or so, or you're twisting it to make me look like a moron (which isn't hard to do, so stop! ;) ).
I'm going to use a quote from Elgyn:

"And frankly, I have to question how on earth ANY parent would WANT to watch children being killed (depicted realistically)."

Want. There we go. No candy, I'm not an idiot--it's obvious that basically every film contains violence in one form or another. I never said - by a long shot - that people who enjoy Tarantino or Scorcese movies are sick individuals. Where the hell did you get that from? All right, I'll put this so it'd be really hard to fashion in a different direction:
WANTING, specifically, to see the torture of a human being, whether it is REAL or FALSE, is, in my mind, sick. W-A-N-T-I-N-G. NOT somebody who walks out of a Taratino movie and said they enjoyed themselves. That is not the same and that should be obvious. Seeking out movies that depict the torture of a human/animal in a realistic fashion for that VERY THING is sick. NOT just SEEKING it out, but ENJOYING the depiction of torture.
And isn't that what a gore-hound is, basically? They want more blood, more violence, more gore, and actually SEEK it out and ENJOY it.

And the capital letters aren't me "shouting" at you, I'm just putting a emphasis on those, and thus on my point.

[Psychocandy]

One other thing. Everyone chill out a bit and think about what you are typing and any offence it may cause to others. Otherwise this thread'll end up getting shut down when people start throwing abuse at each other. I've seen this happen many times and i've also seen long time schmoes get banned for losing it.

[Psychocandy]

C-Desecration-...

To answer your question. No, I don't think that getting visceral pleasure out of watching images of torture and carnage is a bad thing. I don't think it makes the individual sick. I'm not suggesting that this is all the horror genre is about. But violence and the enjoyment of said images is integral to many of the movies that are part of this genre. A movie like Mordum may be at the more extreme end of the horror genre but the enjoyment that a fan of gory movies gets from it is no different from the enjoyment that a fan of movies like Braindead (Dead Alive), Day Of The Dead or The Evil Dead gleans. I get a big assed kick out of movie violence. I absolutely fucking love it. Do I think i'm sick? Absolutely not.

[Reigh Kaufman]

I was talking to my girlfriend today about Cannibal Holocaust and Baise-moi, two movies I rented for us on Tuesday because she had heard, and wanted to see for herself, what the fuss was about.

I warned her in advance that Holocaust was excellent, though marred slightly by the real-life killing of the tortoise (we naturally feel more for the animals for some reason - selective apathy is the emotional remote control), but that Baise-Moi was jes' pure exploitative shit - both points that she fully agreed upon. However, as does happen when you say to people 'this might upset you', there exists a curiosity factor that is hard to resist. It's why we touch fire as children despite mum and dad saying "burny".

Anyway, she got upset at the death of the animal in Holocaust, remained impassive throughout Baise-moi, and then protested that I had done nothing to forewarn her that the movies were 'a bit much of a muchness'. I retaliated, said that I had told her as much as I could without givng anything away, and asked her why she wanted to see them anyway. We talked about it, and here is the answer:

Titillation and curiosity.

These are the simplest things I can think of when you are asked 'why would you want to watch such a thing?'. Titillation - the feeling of being scared is arousing (no, not sexually) - and curiosity - it's a powerful thing to be able to not look. Like, well, on a personal level, I absolutely will not rubberneck at a car accident (etc).... but I have been to Rotten.Com. I will never go back to that fucking web-site, but I HAD TO GO. I mean, really had to see what the fuss was about for myself.

I took no enjoyment from it - but it was certainly titillating. And if you can feel that titillation for a genre 90% of the time, well, then, you are a genre fan....

Doesn't make you a pervert or whatever to discover what it is that you react emotionally to. So leave the name-calling to the Sci-fi geeks... ;)

Only kidding SciFi geeks. Make It So!

[Nekroman]

Damn, I think you about said it all right there. *applaud*. Well put.

[ofmknockoff]

Well, in my former post I didn't really state my opinion, so hear it goes:

I enjoy violence in movies, maybe I'm sick or perverted or whatever, I don't know. I would consider myself a "gorehound" because I search for the most sick, disturbing, violent movies I can find. I once read in Danse Macabre that people see horror movies to get a release from the everyday horrors of life. Violence is one of the things that I see and hear and read about every fucking day. So when I can see a movie and know that it is not real, it is entertaining to me.

I do not like real violence, when I saw a car splattered with blood and a dead man laying next to it with the remains of what used to be bicycle last week, I did not enjoy that, I was saddened and sickened. I almost had to puke when I saw this thing under the title of Weightlifter on rotten.com. I hate that site but it keeps drawing me back, I become curious and wonder if there could be anything worse than what I've already seen.

This is why I search for the most dispicable movies on the planet, I can't imagine them being that bad, nothing can be as bad as Cannibal Holocaust or something like that. But I'm always looking for someting worse, sometimes out of curiousity, sometimes just to see if I can take it. This is why I'm going to watch Salo today, to see if it is really that bad. So that's why I'm so interested in Mordum.

In this thread, I've read people being called sick or not real horror fans, people who watch gorey movies are not sick and I've always considered horror movies to be movies meant to scare you, and a horror fan is someone who likes them, nowhere in there does it say anything about gore.

One last thing, one of the other reasons that I watch gorey movies is my interest in special effects, some of the most talented make-up artists in the world work in the horror business.

[TheJadedGamer]

God...after reading some of these posts I wonder if we are at war with each other.


I, for one, would not see this movie. I don't know why, but I've never been THAT much of a gore fan to really want to see a movie that is just about people killing people/animals/things (or whatever). While as much as I love horror, I think movies like these are actually low points in our beloved industry, since, if you look at it, this is going to get a lot of backfire on the horror community if some thriteen year old smart ass sees it. What is he going to do? Maybe round up some of his friends, and then *MAYBE* do something even worse.

I'm not dissing the movie (for all I know, it might be good), it is just not a movie I'd like to see with anyone.


And please...let's get along.

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by Psychocandy

Everyone chill out a bit and think about what you are typing and any offence it may cause to others. Otherwise this thread'll end up getting shut down when people start throwing abuse at each other. I've seen this happen many times and i've also seen long time schmoes get banned for losing it.

He`s right.
Just remember we`re only talking about movies (and I`m reminding myself as well).

[C-Desecration-]

Actually, I think this thread has transcended movies and become a battle of morality. Sorry, that sounded a little off, let me try again: I think (could be wrong--probably am) that this thread is starting to go in the direction of what certain people (*cough* me *cough*) think is acceptable vs. what others do.

So let me start up a new question (I had a thread on this awhile back, and got to the point of me arguing with a moderator, Arrow): are there limits? Since many of you enjoy seeing grotesque acts on screen to see if you can handle it (oh, and I completely forgot about makeup, and anyone interested in that career may like these things--apologies), is there a limit? is there anything that can make you people (you gore-hounds) stand up and say "This is too much?"

There has GOT to be limits, even for gore-hounds.
Otherwise . . . oh man . . .

[Nekroman]

Interesting question. I think my limit would be if somehow, someday I came across actual snuff. Naw. I'd pass on that.
Sometimes my curiosity does get the better of me. I've seen both Squirmfest movies and I refuse to even begin descrbing that stuff!

[C-Desecration-]

No, no, no--I mean, with fantasy (no real stuff), is there a limit for you? I mean, is there a point when you'd just turn off whatever you were watching because it was just too much?

Just coming across some things from Cannibal Halocaust makes me queasy . . . a woman getting her baby violently pulled out of her then tossed in a river? . . . I already feel sick.

[Nekroman]

Men Behind the Sun was the one that really affected me. It took me a long time to get the courage to watch that one again. That was stuck in my head for three days straight and there are images from it I can NEVER forget. Other than that experience I can't honestly answer that question until I find another one that does make me react that way.
I guess when you watch as much Japanese stuff as I do, it's really hard to be shocked anymore. Those people do things in their movies you will never ever see in a Hollywood movie.

[Juice]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
And Juice, the snuff/non-snuff thing you mentioned I think kind of missed the point. I was saying that people who'd purchase a snuff film (this is all "if", because I doubt they exist) are people who'd get enjoyment out of seeing a human being killed. Right? Okay, so a "gore-hound", if I undestand the meaning, would mean people who enjoy watching absolutely disgusting things on film. Now, those disgusting things aren't real, and the gore-hound knows this, so obviously they can handle what they see. After all, it's on a set, right? But if they ENJOY watching the gore, then that is not too different from people who'd ENJOY seeing a human ebing killed for real. Anyone who enjoys seeing the death of innocent people, fake or not.


Snuff movie absolutely exist, there is a small industry for it in Asia.

And then, I think watching fake death and real death for enjoyment really is different. Watching fake death is supporting fake death, watching real death is supporting real death for entertainment.

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by Juice
Snuff movie absolutely exist, there is a small industry for it in Asia.

And then, I think watching fake death and real death for enjoyment really is different. Watching fake death is supporting fake death, watching real death is supporting real death for entertainment.

Are you sure you aren't thinking of the Traces Of Death movies and suchlike. They aren't snuff movies. If you are talking about actual snuff movies then please present some proof to support your statement if possible.

[Nekroman]

There is a chinese movie I've been after for a long time called Indian Fetish Cult. From what I read on imdb, I NEED to see this. Read up on it. You'll see but it's been described as being a hyper violent, disgusting movie with demons that look like the gelflings from The Dark Crystal. The movie is one of the only movies banned in the US so it makes my hunt difficult. I'm starting to think it's an urban myth. I've eventually found every single movie, no matter how rare that I was after. This one still eludes me. I think now this is one that would fall into your underground Asian market you spoke of, but I too doubt highly the existance of actual snuff films.

[Jewbo]

Originally posted by Elgyn


There really ARE sickos out there who kill children and I doubt any of the parents of those children would find this trash entertaining either.



but the thing is there are real sickos out there that kill teenagers and kill adults too but this is ok in other horror films? i know children is worse but its still killing. and in the films it isnt real.

[Jewbo]

Originally posted by Juice
Snuff movie absolutely exist, there is a small industry for it in Asia.


snuff movies do not do not so not exist. do a search 4 snuff on here there are a few threads about them. snuff films are often wrongly interprited (sp). there is a specific explination for a snuff film. of course videos exist that some murderers have made of them killing. but these are not classed as snuff. i dont want to go into it in depth but do a search because i have done in annother thread somewhere.

[Elgyn]

Nekroman - what is "Men Behind The Sun" about? I`ve heard about it for years and it`s usually mentioned alongside "Salo".

As for the "are there limits" question, for me yes definetly, stuff like "August Underground" is where I`d probably draw the line. And I don`t like that "Traces Of Death" type stuff either (though I know that`s a whole different thing).

[blagtr99]

Hey everyone,

I just recieved word i will be getting a copy of MORDUM soon.
Also, in november the third and final "AUGUST" movie will be made, and fredenstein claims we have not seen anything yet!!
:)

As for drawing the line...
I'll tell ya after I see these flicks!!

[Nekroman]

Men Behind the Sun should be categorized alongside Salo. It IS one of the most horrifying movies I have ever seen. It tells the true story of Squadron 731, which was a Japanese run Chinese concentration camp during WWII. They did the most unbelievably cruel experiments on the Chinese (who they calls "marutas", or fire logs for what they do to their bodies).
Anyways they bring in a group of kids similar to the Hitler's Youth thing and these kids see first hand the stuff going on. Then there's the scenes. OMG!

You see one guy put in a chamber and watch as they suck the air out. His intestines shoot out his ass. Another scene has this woman standing out in the snow with her arms across a frozen bar of ice. Over the course of a few days they pour ice water over her arms until they are frozen solid. Then they bring her inside and dip her arms in hot water. Then this guy takes an iron bar and scrapes it across the frostbitten flesh and her entire arm gets stripped to the bone!
Yet another scene has an actual autopsy. The context of this is there is a boy that they basically trick and then disect alive. The body they used for the the autopsy was real too.
But the worst scene to me is a scene where the colonel is demonstrating his idea behind a bioligical bomb that acts like a chain reaction. But the way that he gets his point across is unreal. He tosses a fluffy white cat into a room full of rats. These rats eat this cat alive and you see it all! It's almost a four minute long scene! But while you might think this was fake, sadly it is NOT! That was a real cat getting torn to bits!

I can't and will not ever call myself a fan of this movie for the fact that it's based on a true story. It's extremely graphic and what I couldn't believe is the fact that almost every movie I've seen has some element of humor to it to lighten the blow. This does not. It's like it's sterilized. Completely serious and I guarantee this one will FUCK YOU UP! I don't use swear words very often in my posts so let that get my point across! It stuck with me for three straight days. That's all I thought about. These scenes that would never ever be forgotten.

So, yeah. that one will always be near the top of my list of extreme titles. It has a well deserved reputation. When they premiered it in China, they didn't tell the audience what it was about and of the people that somehow managed to watch the entire thing, they were all in shock! This ain't one to take lightely. I can almost laugh at August Underground. This one I cannot.

[BadCoverVersion]

Originally posted by Reigh Kaufman
Titillation and curiosity.

These are the simplest things I can think of when you are asked 'why would you want to watch such a thing?'. Titillation - the feeling of being scared is arousing (no, not sexually) - and curiosity - it's a powerful thing to be able to not look. Like, well, on a personal level, I absolutely will not rubberneck at a car accident (etc).... but I have been to Rotten.Com. I will never go back to that fucking web-site, but I HAD TO GO. I mean, really had to see what the fuss was about for myself.

I took no enjoyment from it - but it was certainly titillating. And if you can feel that titillation for a genre 90% of the time, well, then, you are a genre fan...

Precisely.

Hey, some kind bleeder hands me a copy of MORDUM...you can bet your gore-loving arse I'll be watching it within the hour.

As for 'rubbernecking'...I'll hold my hands up and admit to being VERY guilty of this...perverse curiosity and all, and perhaps I am a SICK FUCK, but I'm also an extremely benevolent individual...I abhor war, abuse, cruelty, so on and so forth... I donate money to both the RSPCC and the NSPCC on a monthly basis (trusty direct debit) and hey, I'm casually blowing my own trumpet and all here (oooh er) but I'm a NICE fucking compassionate CHICK folks. I truly am...;)

So yup...I'm content perusing t'internet and visiting the likes of Rotten, Steak&Cheese, Stile...purely because...well, the morbid, mundane, macabre, that's my bag!

I did once stumble across a site called 'Abortion TV'...and lets just say that it was far too despicable even for my iron belly. It wasn't so much the available video footage (I chose NOT to watch) and the crass 'true life' accounts...but the ridiculous fucking DOGMA endorsed and spread by the site.

Anyway, I digress...and I dunno, I'm knackered, and this post is a stream-of-thought sort of affair, and I'm getting on the defensive for no particular reason...so hmmm...

[blurofserenity]

Oh my god, that shit's for real? What has film come to?

[blurofserenity]

Originally posted by Nekroman
Men Behind the Sun should be categorized alongside Salo. It IS one of the most horrifying movies I have ever seen. It tells the true story of Squadron 731, which was a Japanese run Chinese concentration camp during WWII. They did the most unbelievably cruel experiments on the Chinese (who they calls "marutas", or fire logs for what they do to their bodies).
Anyways they bring in a group of kids similar to the Hitler's Youth thing and these kids see first hand the stuff going on. Then there's the scenes. OMG!. Etc etc....

That sounds absoultely disgusting. My jaw dropped when I read the frostbite part.Two questions, one isn't animal butchering illegal in movies? Two, where do you find fucked up shit like this and the August Mordum or whatever? There is no way I could stomach either, but I'm just curious how people get their hands on filth like this.

[C-Desecration-]

Blagtr, could you post your thoughts on the flick after you watch it? There's been some talk that it actually has a pretty good plot (whether that means in general or just compared to gross-out movies I'm not sure), and although I doubt I'll ever lay eyes on it, might as well quench my curiosity.

And Nekro . . . wow . . . Man Behind the Sun sounds absolutely disgusting. Oh man . . . Cannibal Holocaust doesn't sound too bad compared with that. And what's up with all the animal cruelty? Jesus, you'd think animal right's activists would be all over those studios, foreign or not.

[SAI]

Mordum. Yeah, that sounds fucked up.
I am pretty curious to see it though. As far as horror goes my interests run to the extreme end of the genre and I'm pretty hard to shock (Though Irreversible did the trick). I like to see things that have not been done before and Mordum certainly sounds like it will take the (seemingly Man Bites Dog influenced) premise further than we've seen before. That's enough to make me curious to see it

[Corpse Candle]

I don't mind extreme cinema and the culture of underground horror has been the festering point of some break throughs in this genre.

However just some film makers do seem to hide behind the fantasy that they are creating a picture to evoke emotions that humans rarely get in contact with.

Extreme fear and loathing,Possably mixed with abstract pessimism and depression.

The point is if you wish to feel extreme emotions crack your head against a wall...pain...an extreme film inside your own head.

The point is humans don't feel severe emotions all the time due to the fact that we just couldn't cope with them.
Films that have designed themselves to serve this feelings up on demand should be seen carfully because they DO effect people.


Maybe I will see this maybe I won't but one thing is for sure I am going to make sure it's something I want to see first.

[Nekroman]

Animal cruelty is illegal in movies. But Men Behind the Sun was made overseas where these laws are much more lax. I was actually "lucky" if you can call it that when I stumbled across my copy. I trade tons of rare movies with others on the internet but that particular title fell into my hands when I stopped by a retailer in Portland, Oregon. It was right there on the shelf.
As for these August Underground movies, I know they have a site (Toe Tag Pictures) but as I said above, I get most from other rare video traders. Usually just some good detective work and inquiries in certain Yahoo groups are enough to find people who are willing to send you copies of what you're looking for.

[blagtr99]

Mordum:

Well everyone, I've now watch the single most disturbing movie ever made(really). It's true about he plot. It is easier to get caught up in this film than the first.

The first film is just us watching fredenstein(the director) on a daily basis as he commits horrible acts of torture and murder, NO PLOT. If you can sit through the first ten minutes of the first AUGUST UNDERGROUND, watching a tided up female with nipple cut off(being tortured), then your in the clear. It ends almost as horrifying as it begins, but still no clear story or reason as to why he's doing this, other than just being a sick fuck.

Then I recieved it (finally), MORDUM. I read alot of reviews and shit before I watched this sucker, and for once ever single one of them were right. This fucking movie is some sick ass shit. the acting is fan-fuckin-tasic, I really believed that the stuff in the movie was actually going on,(I know it wasn't), but that's how good it was. I think it was easier to get into because instead of seeing one person the whole time we get treated to three(and a fourth) sickos this time. Still the same kinda premise, someone takes turns videotaping the horrors that unfold, but there's actually more believable dialog in this one and you actually feel scared watching it(at least I did, and I'm pretty deep in these kinda gore flicks), and there;s a good amount of grue, but more emphisis is on other horrible acts, if you can imagine that. Every fucking line is crossed with this one, I won't go into details because some people on here would prefer it, and that's very cool, I respect everyone, but if you think you can JUST watch this and forget it, try again, You will never forget it. I think this movie will never get distributed(aside from bootlegs), although I could be wrong, and that if your just curious, STAY AWAY.

:)

[the saw is family]

blagtr i believe i just bought copies of august underground and mordum, from you on ebay it was you correct? my ebay name is holdem81, let me know if it was you. by the way mordum is playing at the detroit international horror film festival that started yesterday.

[Nekroman]

I just saw Mordum and, yeah, it's pretty messed up. Violent as hell. Needless to say it kicked ass and I loved it! Only for the fittest stomachs and people who have made it through all the other extreme movies unscathed. Everybody else better stay clear of it.

[the night watchman]

I do want to see both August Underground and AG's Mordum. I'm afraid to watch them, and I know I will probably be disturbed and sickened if they're anything like the reviews report. But that's how I deal with fear. I confront it. As bad as something is, I always feel more control after I have faced it. To an extent, the idea of August Underground and Mordum is almost worst than watching them. It may seem strange, but it works for me. I have a feeling the same rationale is what impelled the filmmakers to create these two films, and many people to watch them. I'm not sure how someone might enjoy a movie like this, or, say Henry or Irreversible, but I understand the compulsion to view them.

[Nekroman]

You know, Night watchman, you bring up a valid point. To me it's actually worse feeling to be intimidated by a movie than to just take it head on. I remember how afraid I was a a teenager of movies like Faces of Death. Then when I started to actually confront the movies that sight unseen were still scaring me, it felt way better. Almost as if I had beaten it. That the intimidation that it held over me was now gone.
And the majority of time, at least for me, my imagination of what horrors there may be out there are far worse than the reality of it.

[the night watchman]

Yeah, Nekroman, it's like arriving at a sense of closure. It's not desensitization, as some might assume. Horror movies can still disturb me; even those I've seen numerous times. The tunnel scene in Irreversible was as bad as I had imagined. But it got through it, and while I don't necessarily need to watch it again (the scene, that is; the movie as a whole is, in my opinion, actually quite good), it doesn't hold anything over me anymore.

[Haddonfield]

Just to throw my 2 cents into this. I am a person who loves gore, however, it is all a matter of degree. For instance I will use an above post...I could watch someone get there intestines torn out, only to have said intestines keep on trying to kill you...yes, Dead Alive. However, I can not watch someone tied up with a nipple cut off being tortured. And there is one big difference for me....The intent.

A "gory" movie like Dead Alive or even Bad Taste has the tounge firmply placed in cheek. But movies that have been disscussed in this thread are aimed to shock you, while the others try and gross you out.

I wont jump into the moral debate but I find zero pleasure watching murder and rape done in a serious manner to shock you and I have no need for something like that to be stuck in my head for the rest of my life.....I also have nothing to hide....except my fear of hieghts but thats another thread!

[the night watchman]

I understand where you are coming from, Haddonfield. A lot of people regard movies as mere entertainments, especially horror movies. And, don't get me wrong, I like being entertained, and I like movies like Dead Alive for their safe entertainment value. But movies can inform, and move, as well, and also be used as a form of introspection. I haven't seen either of the August Undergrounds, so I can't defend them. But a difficult movie, like Henry or Irreversible can bring one to a realization, even if that realization cannot be fully articulated.

[Haddonfield]

I hear what you are saying...and I hope this doesnt come off like I am an ass...But I do not need to be informed that raping someone is bad or that killing someone is wrong...If showing what a true serial killer does somehow informs me onto something well...I already know...and my mind (to this point in my life!:) ) hasnt crossed over to the dark side!

A movie such as The Elephant Man, to me, has something to say. I tend to enjoy "deep" movies about the soul verses blatent violence for the sake of something I will never understand.

[the night watchman]

Originally posted by Haddonfield
But I do not need to be informed that raping someone is bad or that killing someone is wrong...If showing what a true serial killer does somehow informs me onto something well...I already know...and my mind (to this point in my life!:) ) hasnt crossed over to the dark side!

Well, that's putting words in my mouth. I wasn't talking about trite, grade-school moral lessons.

[countchocula]

I think you gain a deeper empathy for rape/murder victims from watching films of this nature. It heightens your sensitivity to everyday atrocities. No, you don't need a film to tell you that rape is immoral, but it does underpin the point.

[Haddonfield]

Originally posted by the night watchman
Well, that's putting words in my mouth. I wasn't talking about trite, grade-school moral lessons.


whoa....was not those remarkes to indeed come out of your mouth. My point was is that the argument is made that seeing somthing like this can bring one to a realization, even if that realization cannot be fully articulated. What I said was, is that I do not need any realization on any level about such acts. Again, I didnt was to sound like an ass...Voice patterens are the one thing the internet does not provide on a message board.

[the night watchman]

Fair enough. But my point was that film is about expression, not moral lessons, and movies like Henry, Last House on the Left, and Irreversible -- and possibly the August Underground movies -- are not about entertainment or viewing pleasure, but are introspections on violence -- both cinematic and real -- that seek to reach levels fun horror movies cannot access. My response was to your statement, "I find zero pleasure watching murder and rape done in a serious manner to shock you and I have no need for something like that to be stuck in my head for the rest of my life." My point was that these movies are not intended to be pleasurable, and I would argue, not even merely to be shocking. If you don't want to watch them, if you feel they have nothing to offer you, then you shouldn't watch them. But you seemed to misunderstand their intent, and the reasons some people choose to watch them.

[Haddonfield]

here is a can of worms....

why watch them at all?

[the night watchman]

Well, I stated my own personal reasons about ten posts back, but for the sake of convenience here's the quote:

Originally posted by the night watchman
I do want to see both August Underground and AU's Mordum. I'm afraid to watch them, and I know I will probably be disturbed and sickened if they're anything like the reviews report. But that's how I deal with fear. I confront it. As bad as something is, I always feel more control after I have faced it. To an extent, the idea of August Underground and Mordum is almost worst than watching them. It may seem strange, but it works for me. I have a feeling the same rationale is what impelled the filmmakers to create these two films, and many people to watch them. I'm not sure how someone might enjoy a movie like this, or, say Henry or Irreversible, but I understand the compulsion to view them.

[Nekroman]

What it comes down to is if you want to watch this movie (or others like it) go ahead. If not, then don't. Either way is fine. Frankly I didn't think Mordum was anywhere near as bad as I was lead to believe. It didn't even phase me, but that's just me.

[blagtr99]

You know, I think me and NEKROMAN are the only schmoes to have watched this, and were both not bothered enough by it.
Don't get me wrong, I thought it was pretty brutal and I think NEKROMAN would agree.
But I've already seen just about every sick ass movie out there, so it's really hard to judge how bad this movie really is.

So,If there's a serious schmoe in here that really wants to judge for themself, let me know and I'll send you a copy(free), so you can post comments about it here.
What would be cool is if someone who wants to see it and someone who thinks it's just plain fucked up would watch it and post here.
Just make sure you've had some serious horror background, in the gore and disturbing images department.
:)

[Jewbo]

i really really wanna see both the august underground films but they r damn near impossible to find here in the uk. i cant everfind any1 to trade with over here.

[Nekroman]

If you are one of the types that got sick with Blair Witch Project's shaky cameras, this one will make you puke for sure. When I was watching it my stomach was already previously rumbly due to my digestive system being on the fritz, so to speak, so the simple movement of the camera made me feel ill but the violence and depravity were nothing new to me. But this is really only appropriate, as said before, for folks who have already seen the other notorious sicko movies out there and laughed them off. Then this movie is for you. I did find it pretty foul and definately not for the squeemish so I don't want people to think I'm downplaying it because that would be a crime. This ain't no cakewalk.

[MessiahOfEvil]

I read on another message board that the copy of mordum being sold now is a bootlegged cut version. The chick that plays in that actually came to a board and told people to wait for the DVD (yes, she said their coming out on DVD as soon as someone gets the balls to release them). She said that the cut that Vogel is going to put out has even more gore in it. I saw the first AU and I thought it was great but have yet to see this one.

[Nekroman]

I can't be sure, but I think my copy is off the DVD because at the end you see what looks like a DVD menu screen, so it's all good.

[Romero&Juliet]

FTR, this is one of the better horror movies that I've ever seen.. an excersize in dynamics, scripting, improvisation.. Its very obvious that these are EXTREMELY talented people and willing to go the extra mile to tell a story.

All of this "over the top gore for the sake of fucking with people"..? Yeah, okay.. so its going to turn a few stomachs (I dont quite know how to feel about it, to be honest -I'm not a big nut for the gore, but I've seen quite enough to be tolerant- As of now, I just feel like I've been royally Fucked with for the past hour), but it actually has merit as a story.. with characters and conflicts and ACTUAL human problems.. Really, its been pegged alll wrong.


I'd reccomend it to any horror fan out there.



Ps: WHO is that woman?! I think I'm in love?! Anyone with that kind of balls deserves to be put in the screamqueen hall of fame.

......and if she weren't covered in puke, I think she'd be very attractive..!

[Jewbo]

i got hold of the first one and have to say i was abit disapointed. i didnt find it half as disturbing as i thought. infact i could have easily eaten and watched the film at the same time. it was pretty cool tho. comes across as very real.

[Nekroman]

Yes, Jewbo, and I thought that Mordum was pretty much along the same lines as the original. I didn't find it more disturbing at all. But you have to admit for people who are not used to this caliber of horror, like those who shudder in fear at the mention of the Guinea Pig series that these August Underground movies would rape their senses beyond all recognition!

[Jewbo]

thats true. i showed a friend it today and he called ma a sick bastard lol. im far 2 hardened and i wish i wasnt. i eat watching mondo films.

[blagtr99]

QUOTE:
Ps: WHO is that woman?! I think I'm in love?! Anyone with that kind of balls deserves to be put in the screamqueen hall of fame.

......and if she weren't covered in puke, I think she'd be very attractive..!
____________________________

That girls name is CRUSTY , and Yes I'm in love to, Just dont tell me wife!!!:D

[Romero&Juliet]

Originally posted by blagtr99


That girls name is CRUSTY , and Yes I'm in love to, Just dont tell me wife!!!:D

LoL...


THANKS BLAG!!!!!!!!!!!






Man, what that woman could do with a hammer.... Do you know whether she's been in any of the other toetag pictures??

[thisjustin]

Hi Guys. I have very mixed feelings about such films as Mordum and its sequel. Its interesting,I just bought an issue of Ultra Violent Magazine in which they review these films. These films just seem like people acting like jerks on film,umm,wait,not even film,VIDEO. Which always looks pathetic. I would definetely watch these films again,but never pay for them. I am not too hot to pay money to see people act demented,at least not with it shot on DV,just my opinion,Anyone can run around with a cheap dvcam and call themselves a "film" maker. Ill tell you whats hard and shows a good film maker. Acting with at least some range of emotion,good,interesting plot structuring,and quality sound design. Does this sound snobbish or nerdy? Maybe to some,but if you are anything like me,the thought of people just "videoing" acts of violence is weak. Way to easy and unchallenging. J.

[Romero&Juliet]

^ But the dynamic of the film lie in the idea that they were using a completely different medium to tell a story wherein classic requisites of a good film were shelved. Therefore, it would be unfair to judge the piece as such(granted, their budget was miniscule, most of them ARE NOT ACTORS...).

I thought it very challenging - This was a story made about horror fans, for horror fans and any fan of the genre(well.. that's a little presumptuous) should immediately find that endearing.. well.

For seventy seven minutes we're being forced to look at the BE ALL/END ALL of genre-mania and its potential danger to us.. Hell, we're halfway there if we actually have the gaul to sit through some of the content of that flick, right?

Their BS goth posturing and insannnne over-gatching are meant to suggest that it could've just as easily been us and it hit RIGHT fucking home..



and Mordum was the sequal to AU, btw.. the next installement is currently in the works.

[thisjustin]

Im glad you liked the "films" R&J. However,I couldnt agree less with your opinion. If it floats your boat,fine. To me,it seems like amatuer hour. I do give the makers credit for one thing.They seem to truly care about there project,thats cool. All the best, ThisJustin

[Romero&Juliet]

Fair enough. :)







SPOILLLLLLLLLERSSSSSSS








..and I promise not to hold a grudge and mabye make you bathe in a woman's blood out of spite..? That would be a waste, afterall!

[thisjustin]

Dear R&J, Thank you very much for not making me bath in a womans blood. You are a gentleman and a scholar. I knew I came to this board for a reason. PS, I suggest you pick up issue #5 of Ultra Violent Magazine. Should be available at Borders.

[Romero&Juliet]

Originally posted by thisjustin
Dear R&J, Thank you very much for not making me bath in a womans blood.

Okay... That's about the coolest thing ANYONE has ever said to me..!

Thanks for the props and I'll definitely check out that issue of Ultra Violent.. although, I can pretty well guess exactly what they're going to say, anyways.

Its nice hearing other opinions on a film like this.. The past three pages have been WICKED schmoe-reading.

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by thisjustin

These films just seem like people acting like jerks on film,umm,wait,not even film,VIDEO. Which always looks pathetic. I would definetely watch these films again,but never pay for them. I am not too hot to pay money to see people act demented,at least not with it shot on DV,just my opinion,Anyone can run around with a cheap dvcam and call themselves a "film" maker.

Does this sound snobbish or nerdy?


Nah, I totally understand what you`re saying. Hell, I could make one of these damn things. Only mine would probably be way more off-the-wall.......

Wait.....why don`t I make my own?!?:eek:

[thisjustin]

Hell yeah,E! Why not make your own. I love reviewing those type of home-made "films". Heres 2 cool sites that specialize in this www.triggerstreet.com and www.urbanchillers.com ....And no,I am not on the staff or paid by the sites in any way. All the best,ThisJustin

[HannibalGuy]

I've seen Mordum, and I dont think it was that bad. But, when I read all of this stuff, everyone saying how gory and extreme it is, it gets me curious. True, it's gory as hell, but it didn't effect me at all. It was an awesome movie. 9/10

[Nekroman]

I have to agree with you HannibalGuy. I was excited at the possibility of having met my extreme movie match having seen all the other atrocities but this one didn't even phase me. It's disappointing but it was a fun movie regardless. Can't wait for part 3, that's for sure.

[Narfellus]

My question for those of you who have seen this movie (i have not and probably wouldn't) concerns the actual director and actors/actresses. Are these normal, horror-loving people? Are they in film school? Are they professionals, or do they really wallow in the pain and negativity they pretend to? I can't imagine that creating such a film would be any better for the mental state of a person than for anyone watching. Maybe it is all just to get attention, which it has i suppose, even though i hope it is never commercially successful (that would say really terrible things about our society, in my opinion)
I suppose overall i'm just curious as to what sort of lives these filmmakers lead? And what do their friends and family think of their directorial/acting debuts?

[the night watchman]

Narfellus, are you objecting to the idea of portraying violence realistically, as opposed to portraying it in a "fun" cartoon-like manner? If so, how exactly is a film that portrays the pain of violent acts morally inferior to a movie like, say, Bad Boys 2, that really does wallow in pain and negativity in the worst way, because it's utterly flippant about the carnage presents?

In answer to your question, I know the filmmakers graduated from Tom Savini's school of make-up.

[Narfellus]

I'm not really objecting to violence in and of itself. I enjoy violence, but for myself i have a limit. If others want to push themselves past that, fine, go ahead. I just want to understand the mechanics and thoughts processes of other people that lead them to do what they do. I'm just curious, really. I haven't seen Bad Boys 2, although i heard that it was very violent. I'm sure that the violence is nothing i haven't seen before because i've been desensitized to it, so my value for such a film would rely on how good of a film it actually is (which i doubt i would enjoy very much. I didn't like the first one).
I like to also observe cultural trends. I find it fascinating to understand the inner workings of another's thoughts and creative processes to make something, for positive or negative pursuits. Mordum, it sounds like, is an incredibly visceral experience, one that forces you, for an hour and half, to think about depravity. I've watched, and i'm sure others have, the life histories of Dahmer and Gacy, not to glorify their victims or deeds, but to reach an understanding of why they did what they did.
Did these filmmakers take a similar approach? Did they have curiousity about a subject (pedophilia, necrophilia, etc) or were they enraptured by the subject matter or were they logically pushing the boundaries of a medium or were they sick fucks doodling with a camera and fake blood?
And yes, part of me is hypocritical. As much as i enjoy violence and blood and horror, part of me is shocked that we as human beings like to witness such things. And human culture, as near as i can tell, repeats itself over the centuries.

[the night watchman]

I understand where you're coming from. No, I don't know much about them or their motivations beyond the being Savini graduates, not to mention -- and this may be revealing -- that they had reportedly planned to leave unlabeled copies of the video on subways or in public areas.

[C-Desecration-]

Narfellus, are you objecting to the idea of portraying violence realistically, as opposed to portraying it in a "fun" cartoon-like manner?


All right, don't you guys go pretending Mordum is up to the level of Donnie Darko, Se7en, Silence of the Lambs, Sixth Sense, Ring, 8mm, Aliens, May, whatever, and that is just puts out realistic violence as opposed to the 'cool, slick, cheer-the-hero-on' violence in typical hollywood fare.
This isn't a film.
Sure it might have a plot, characters, whatever, but I (almost) know for a fact that most of you who'd praise that are really grabbing for straws. Is the plot deep? I doubt it . . . and anything dealing with depravity or whatever isn't much of a plot. In all honestly, this is a film about torture, right? Right? So is videotaping a cat getting mauled. This isn't film people, its a little steak for gorehounds to lap up.

To insinuate that this thing is really up-to-stuff but just didn't get a wide release because it 'pushed the bar' or whatever is a little silly (not that anyone said that exactly, but you all seem to be treating this as if it were high-class . . . which it isn't). This is a movie for gore-hounds. It really has nothing else to offer.

Any rebuttals to my ignorant, one-sided stand?

[Nekroman]

I think these guys were simply trying to raise the bar. To create something so utterly disgusting as to limit their audience to the select few that aren't bothered by the carnage. They made it possibly to shock the more sensitive viewer and delight the gorehound who had seen it all. Up to that point anyways.
I read an interview with the guy that played Maggot who is one fucked up character and the guy is actually quite funny and nice. Just goes to show you that you really can't judge a book by it's cover. And frankly this isn't any worse than the new extremes coming out of Japan. Christ, anybody that has seen All Night Long 2 or Mu Zan E would find this a sick chuckle and nothing more.

[the night watchman]

C-Desecration -- Actually, I was really was wondering why many people object to cinematic violence that is intended to disturb, i.e. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer, while feeling comfortable about other movies that use violence with the intent to titilate and thrill, i.e. Bad Boys 2, True Lies, and any Steven Segal movie.

[C-Desecration-]

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer, while feeling comfortable about other movies that use violence with the intent to titilate and thrill, i.e. Bad Boys 2, True Lies, and any Steven Segal movie.


Actually, that's not entirely true. People many times overlook the kind of violence portrayed.
(these are all hypothetical 'movies')

Shootout 5: bloodbath with people getting shot, cars exploding, etc.
Split-Second: another shootout
Those above are meant to resemble bad boys 2 and true lies.

Now . . .

Jack-o the impaling rapist: rape, torture, pedophilia
Depravity: rape, cannibalism

Notice a differnce? The violence in one - no matter how it is portrayed - is far more sickening to people than the violence in the other. Most notably anything violent and sexual always makes people uncomfortable (rape, for instance). In the majority of these so-called films that glorify violence its all shoot-outs. If True Lies had people getting raped or tortured I doubt it'd be billed as cool or slick, no matter how they shot it.
See what I'm saying?

And Nekro, I wasn't saying that the guys were bad people, just that what they were shooting wasn't at all aimed to be artful or meaningful. It was, like you said, stuff that kind of walked into the streets and attracted few but repelled many.

[Romero&Juliet]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-


Any rebuttals to my ignorant, one-sided stand?


here's one:


go watch it before you make some serrrriously unfounded judgements on the intents of the filmmakers?

...and if I plug something because I thought of it as having actual merit, then who are you to tell me otherwise?


but I (almost) know for a fact that most of you who'd praise that are really grabbing for straws.

whatever!

[the night watchman]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
The violence in one - no matter how it is portrayed - is far more sickening to people than the violence in the other. Most notably anything violent and sexual always makes people uncomfortable (rape, for instance). In the majority of these so-called films that glorify violence its all shoot-outs. If True Lies had people getting raped or tortured I doubt it'd be billed as cool or slick, no matter how they shot it.
See what I'm saying?


Sorta. But what I'm saying is that, from a moral or ethical standpoint, it seems like movies that portray violence as grim and unpleasant should be more acceptable than movies that portray violence as "slick" or "cool." In other words, violence should be portrayed as sickening. Violence should make people uncomfortable, regardless of whether the victim is getting shot or raped. I don't understand why one is acceptable, but the other is not -- both should be portrayed as equally abhorrent. I find a movie like, say, Irreversible less reprehensible than something like Bad Boys 2, since Irreversible wants us to turn away and think about the acts of violence it portrays, unlike Bad Boys 2 which uses violence to turn off our ability to think and feel, and establish empathetic connections with the characters, and, by extention, with our fellow human beings.

[C-Desecration-]

That's like asking why breasts are more intense and adult then someone getting executed with a magnum by a machine made to kill.

It's our society. And I admit that I sort of fit into that whole 'if violence is more stylized its less reprehensible' crowd . . . and I honestly don't know why (maybe because I associate this stylized violence as a fantasy of sorts, so I detach it from reality). 'Tis a curious thing.

...and if I plug something because I thought of it as having actual merit, then who are you to tell me otherwise?

Sorry. I shouldn't have said " Romero&juliet I heaby prohibit you from not only liking, but plugging this film. If you continue to do so I'll be forced to call the police."
That was out of line. Sorry.

[Nekroman]

Nightwatchman has a valid point but it's a vicious cycle. Because let's say I watch Mordum (I have seen it by the way). People are automatically going to assume I enjoy the content, otherwise why would I watch something that I knew was so horrible? It's that presumed attitude that flares people's feelings first about the movie itself and then about us who watch them. But since say any Schwarzenegger movie isn't so shocking in terms of violence since it is portrayed in a fun way then naturally the people who watch those movies are nowhere near as twisted as the Mordum watchers. It's wrong but that's the cycle of it all. If it wasn't then how could this thread about a virtually unheard of indie movie cause such a ruckus?

[the night watchman]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
That's like asking why breasts are more intense and adult then someone getting executed with a magnum by a machine made to kill.


Wha--?

[the night watchman]

Originally posted by Nekroman
But since say any Schwarzenegger movie isn't so shocking in terms of violence since it is portrayed in a fun way then naturally the people who watch those movies are nowhere near as twisted as the Mordum watchers.

I suppose it also has to do with the human tendency toward tribalism. Like Schwarzenegger says in True Lies when Curtis asks if he's ever killed anyone, "Yes, but they were all bad." So long as it's the "good guy" killing the "bad guy" -- so long as it's morally justified by establishing and "us versus them" dichotomy -- then violence is okay, and even revered. That mentality unnerves me more than the fact that a movie like Mordum exists.

[Nekroman]

Yet another valid point. I wonder what the reaction would be if a Mordum-like extreme movie surfaced but the murderers were good guys. Maybe they are slowly killing Osama Bin Laden or some rapist with the most vile of methods. You are supposed to be on the aggressors' side but even though their actions are more than justified they'd more than likely repel most viewers. So in addition to being sympathetic to the killers you'd probably have to tone down the violence anyways.

[C-Desecration-]

Wha--?

Heh, I meant flash a breast or whatever and you got an R ratings, but have someone get shot up fifty bazillion times and you're PG-13.
That's all.

People are automatically going to assume I enjoy the content, otherwise why would I watch something that I knew was so horrible? It's that presumed attitude that flares people's feelings first about the movie itself and then about us who watch them.

That's very true. Although after going back-and-forth with a few posts of yours my knee-jerk reactioin of "sicko" is gone . . . it was still there. Yet this reaction isn't solely in the confines of horror; if somebody came up to you in real life . . . no, better yet, if someone posted on this message board:
" the best movie ever is 2 fast 2 furious, so awesome"
You would get a knee-jerk reaction. 2 fast 2 furious is generally considered schlock, thus for a split-second you might view this poster as not the most intelligent fellow in the world.
We as a people always try to find ways to sniff out someone's personality, whether it be their taste in music, television, films, what have you.

[the night watchman]

Originally posted by Nekroman
I wonder what the reaction would be if a Mordum-like extreme movie surfaced but the murderers were good guys. Maybe they are slowly killing Osama Bin Laden or some rapist with the most vile of methods. You are supposed to be on the aggressors' side but even though their actions are more than justified they'd more than likely repel most viewers. So in addition to being sympathetic to the killers you'd probably have to tone down the violence anyways.

You know, I was thinking of making a movie -- or a short, rather (although I'm not a filmmaker) -- precisely like that, in which a group of men abduct a mass rapist/murderer and slowly torture him to death. The intent would be to remove any kind of thrill the viewer might receive, and would be meant to force the viewer to really consider the act of violence completely outside the typical schema usually present in film. By completely scrambling the villain/victim and good guy/bad guy roles beyond recognition, the viewer would be forced to completely abandon any moral or cathartic safety nets and witness the ugly brutality of violence as it is. In theory anyway.

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
Heh, I meant flash a breast or whatever and you got an R ratings, but have someone get shot up fifty bazillion times and you're PG-13.
That's all.

Oh, gotcha. If I'm not mistaken, when the rating system was first developed, the R rating was meant primarily to alert viewers to sex, and PG was meant to alert viewers to violence and language. Back then, X was also a legitimate rating, which simply meant "adult situations."

[Elgyn]

You know I just happened to think of something.

Is 'mordum' actually a word?

Or is it a play on the words 'boredom' and 'morbid'?

[the night watchman]

Good question. Closest I can come to is a misspelling of the last part of the medical term "post-mortem."

[countchocula]

I'm guilty of flogging Mordum in this thread, but I'd like to emphasize something that R&J stated. If you haven't seen the film, you shouldn't excoriate its artistic merit. From what I gather, it's a notch above your typical shock reel. It's well-executed, highly effective, and has something to say. Having not seen Mordum, I'm not exactly sure what it has to say, but I'm certain that it has more on its mind than Hollywood Chainsaw Hookers or Jungle Holocaust.

If you're going to scourge it, be sure that you can cite specific lines or scenes that rubbed you the wrong way. You can't reach a verdict without hard evidence.

[C-Desecration-]

If you're going to scourge it, be sure that you can cite specific lines or scenes that rubbed you the wrong way. You can't reach a verdict without hard evidence.

Prepare yourself for something completely inconsequential (not really, but I gotta' have a catchy opener') . . .

If there was a film (its fictional) that had a man shoot a cat, snap a dog's neck, rape a neighbor's family, then eat some old woman and that was it, you can form an opinion without having seen it.
Isn't that right? Now I'm not saying that's mordum, but apply that sensibility to this thread and there you go.

I'd say this is more a thread about its content rather than execution (although the latter is up in the air too; I'm still pretty sure it's schlock . . .). So this is basically about what the film shows, keeping in mind that it obviously doesn't have an oscar-worthy, terribly original, spellbinding plot with amazingly dimensional characters.

[countchocula]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
If there was a film (its fictional) that had a man shoot a cat, snap a dog's neck, rape a neighbor's family, then eat some old woman and that was it, you can form an opinion without having seen it.
Isn't that right? Now I'm not saying that's mordum, but apply that sensibility to this thread and there you go.

I'd say this is more a thread about its content rather than execution (although the latter is up in the air too; I'm still pretty sure it's schlock . . .).

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre deals with a crossdressing cannibal who slices and dices pretty teenagers with a chainsaw. That's pretty much it. It's one of the best horror films of all time. Execution is oft-times more important than content. I doubt that Mordum is one of the best horror films of all time, but you can't write off a premise without taking its execution into consideration. Again, wait until you've seen the film before you dismiss it as bovine bunkum.

[the night watchman]

What the Count said. Furthermore, how are you going to know a movie is about a guy who gigs cats and rapes horses, and "that's it" -- hypothetically speaking -- if you've never seen it? You could have only gotten that assessment from an outside source, who may very well be a poor judge of the material, or someone with an ulterior motive when it comes to characterizing the movie. More, a movie can be more than its content; it can contain more meaning that the sum of its parts.

[Jewbo]

i was thinking about the word mordum as well. its a great word. so i asked a friend and he said the french word for death sounds abit like that so i dunno if that has anything to do with it.

[C-Desecration-]

First off, I agree with count. TCM had no greater lesson to teach, no deep characters, no shocking plot twists (or original plot) . . . sure it wasn't very good, but someone could say it was essentially about torture.
Funny thing is, if Mordum had the same content, only it was directed by Wes Craven and starred some known actor/actress (like Irreversible with Belluci) then I wouldn't be so up in arms (that's possible). In fact, I probably would've just said "looks cool" and moved on.
Huh.
I think the word 'underground' scares me or something.

What the Count said. Furthermore, how are you going to know a movie is about a guy who gigs cats and rapes horses, and "that's it" -- hypothetically speaking -- if you've never seen it?

I got a perfect example: it's a movie called faces of gore. From this site (and brief reviews on others) I've gathered that it basically shows a number of real deaths, from accidents, suicides, to murders, and some ass comments on them. There is supposidly a scene where a woman hung herself and the commentator applauds her rack. Another where a pregnant woman was burned enough so that her fetus is practically falling out (I feel sick typing that), and the guy exclaims "Two for one!" (or something like that).
I've formed an opinion about this trash.
So have many others.
Yet I've never, and never will, see it.
Hmm . . .

[the night watchman]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
I got a perfect example: it's a movie called faces of gore. From this site (and brief reviews on others) I've gathered that it basically shows a number of real deaths, from accidents, suicides, to murders, and some ass comments on them. There is supposidly a scene where a woman hung herself and the commentator applauds her rack. Another where a pregnant woman was burned enough so that her fetus is practically falling out (I feel sick typing that), and the guy exclaims "Two for one!" (or something like that).
I've formed an opinion about this trash.
So have many others.
Yet I've never, and never will, see it.
Hmm . . .

I still say you can't accurately assess a movie unless you've actually experienced it, even if a movie like Faces of Gore probably is exactly what it seems to be. Furthermore, there is a difference between cinematic violence and death, and images of actual death. The difference, of course, is that one is simulated and the people involved consented to be in the film, while the other is exploiting genuine tragedy.

That's not to say you can't choose to not see a particular movie based solely on the opinions of others -- that's why we read movie reviews, after all -- but I think it's unwise to get self-righteous about its virtues, or lack thereof, or about the people who choose to watch it and comment on it.

[HannibalGuy]

This thread made me search this website for posts about sick movies like Faces of Death, and there was one about Rotten.com. There was a debate on weather or not the site should be taken down. Some said yes, some said no. I am going to defend Rotten. I've been on it, and I do not approve of the stuff on it, but this is America, a FREE country. It reminded me of the discussion of violence in this thread. Is it innapropriate to show violence for learning? Historical violence. I was watching the History Channel last night, and they showed what happened after Saddam Hussien(spell?) used chemical weapons on the Kurds. They showed many videos of people being shot in the head, and a street full of dead people, including 3 or 4 dead babies. Should we show that kind of gore to educate people about how bad Saddam was? I have been to the Holocaust Memorial Mussium(spell?) in Washington D.C. and they show many videos of the Holocaust and concentration camps that need no description. Is it fine to show people what Hitler did? Please discuss.

[the night watchman]

Well, I don't think anyone on this thread is suggesting censorship. I think there is a distinct ethical line between showing images of atrocities for the sake of remembrance and education, and showing them for the sake of exploitation. That said, I also think the line between expoitation and art is sometimes fuzzy, like, for instance, in the case of the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre or Night of the Living Dead.

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-

I got a perfect example: it's a movie called faces of gore.
There is supposidly a scene where a woman hung herself and the commentator applauds her rack. Another where a pregnant woman was burned enough so that her fetus is practically falling out (I feel sick typing that), and the guy exclaims "Two for one!" (or something like that).


Here`s a little conversation starter:

If you ran into this person (the commentor), would you feel bad about killing him?

I don`t think I would.

I`m not a total sicko or anything, but come on, the guy is laughing at other people`s horrible misery - he`s asking for it!

[Conor]

here's a link to that Faces Of Gore video that C-Desecration was talking about. http://www.facesofgore.com/index2.htm
I find everything about that video sickening, and I havent seen it. They way they talk about everything is so offensive too. When they talk about the dead girl who hung herself they comment on how hot she is, and how nice her tits are. They LOVE dead babies, and even have a backdoor abortion in a third world country as one of the special features. Anyone who watches this for enjoyment needs to be locked away. seriously, I was so offended by everything on that site that I can't even explain it, and Im a huge gorehound. Real death is snuff, i dont care what anyone says, if you are watching people actually dying on film that IS snuff and it should be illegal.

[the night watchman]

I visited the site, and for all the posturing the writers do in the name of art, they never explain why the Faces of Gore films merit the label of art, or what exactly their intentions are beyond pure profit. Their hypocrisy got on my nerves more than their choice to exploit death. I can understand the morbid curiosity that may move someone to watch something like this (which should not be confused with "enjoyment"), and I even understand the sensationalism with which something like this is marketed. But I don't understand the flippant tone emloyed by the makers.

[Conor]

Originally posted by the night watchman
I visited the site, and for all the posturing the writers do in the name of art, they never explain why the Faces of Gore films merit the label of art, or what exactly their intentions are beyond pure profit. Their hypocrisy got on my nerves more than their choice to exploit death. I can understand the morbid curiosity that may move someone to watch something like this (which should not be confused with "enjoyment"), and I even understand the sensationalism with which something like this is marketed. But I don't understand the flippant tone emloyed by the makers.

=========================

Exactly! One of the more offensive things about the site is that they have no idea what they're talking about. First they say that the movie is "fun gore" then later they say that it is important art. They even go so far as to say that it doesnt make people dangerous, it does the opposite, fulfilling the cravings of soon to be criminals. That is twisted logic in itself.

[Tim Wambolt]

Here is my review:

http://www.runningwithscissors.com/august-undergrounds-mordum

:D

[SchizoidManiac]

:D

I like your review and plan on contemplating what the movie might be like, since I have never heard of it, and maybe thinking of how I might react to it.

In other words I am a little afraid of watching it.

[jtwist78]

Definitely not a movie for everyone - in fact VERY few. I watched it and had an extremely tough time getting all the way through. It left me feeling dirty for days but I think that is part of the point.

Its not just gore for the sake of gore, I think its main point is "there are people out there that do things like this and lets show our audience that it shouldn't be glorified or made to look 'cool' "

[g1ng3rsnap9ed]

Well at least they're not glorifying the violence, like most films of today. :)

[Shinigami]

^The problem is that people get off on this, sexually or emotionally or psychologically. August Underground and other video nasties of its ilk do worse than glorify violence- they make it sought after.

[Lat er al]

Im gonna give this a watch :D, but first I gotta watch the first one

[Tony_Montana]

Hmmmm. I guess really movies should be allowed to have as much violence as they fucking want. But when I hear about films like this or say Slaughtered Vomit Dolls or these other no-budget underground exploitation torture movies...would I watch them? I know watching them won't make me the new Ed Gein as some British parent groups would have said in the 80's but other than making me feel sick and uncomfortable is there any real point to them?

Let me put it this way...

Hostel had some fucked up shit. But it had an interesting premise and setting.

The Saw films have some pretty fucked up shit. But they are very stylish, Jigsaw is a cool villian (or whoever they have now, I haven't seen past #3), the puppet is creepy and now iconic, the traps/deaths can be creative. The plots get progessively more stupid but there is a plot none the less.

Takeshi Miike's films have some fucked up shit (we're talking about the horror and gangster movies he's made, I know he's done all kinds of shit). But they have crazy set pieces, cool characters (who doesn't love Kakihara?) and when he does more serious films the violent scenes really get to you because they are not only fucked up but you actually feel for the characters (see Audition).

These underground gore movies. I haven't seen any (yet) so I should probably reserve judgement but is there any redeeming factors to them beyond that they are fucked up. It's basically like a porno. Theres a vague hint of a plot (the milkman arrives/deranged loonies kidnap a hot cheerleader) which is only there to provide a context to the action (milkman's customer turns out to be Brianna Banks/hot cheerleader gets disembowled). But at least with a porno you can have a jizz. If you have a jizz on a gore movie... maybe you have issues.