THE LAST SAMURAI

[blankpage]

THE LAST SAMURAI
Pics and Info from Yahoo movies.com



http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/the_last_samurai/tom_cruise/samurai9.jpg



Running Time: 2 hrs and 24 min

Plot: Set in the late 1870s, this epic film depicts the beginnings of the modernization of Japan, as the island nation evolved past a feudal society, as symbolized by the eradication of the samurai way of life. We see all this happen from the point of view of an alcoholic Civil War veteran turned Winchester guns spokesman, Captain Woodrow Algren (Cruise), who arrives in Japan to train the troops of the emperor, Meiji, as part of a break away from the long-held tradition of relying on employed samurai warriors to protect territories, as the emperor's new army prepares to wipe out the remaining samurai warriors. When Algren is injured in combat and captured by the samurai, he learns about their warrior honor code from their leader, Katsumoto, which forces him to decide which side of the conflict he actually wants to be on.


Release Date: December 5, 2003.

Rated R: strong violence and battle sequences



Starring: Tom Cruise, Ken Watanabe, Billy Connolly, Koyuki, Tony Goldwyn

Directed by: Edward Zwick (Glory)


THOUGHTS: I don't know about you, but I think this film looks brilliant. I've always been a fan of samurai movies, and this one looks to carry the tradition. Tom Cruise may do a good job, I think. Plus, with Zwick at the helm, I think we have a pretty great epic on our hands here. This film has been getting tons of positive feedback as well, so that's always a plus, too. December 5th, I'll be watching this movie-- will you?

[sleekproductions]

I don't know if you're aware of how things work around here, but underground wise, I have had this thread opening reserved for quite some time. Then again, I suppose that was back when DH was a member. I'll let it by, as there is nothing I can do, but my thread has now gone to waste... (I'll post it here anyways):

"What do you want from yourself"

"The Last Samurai"


SPECIAL NOTE: THE LAST SAMURAI WILL BE HAVING SNEAK PREVIEWS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ON SATURDAY NOVEMBER 29TH! BE SURE TO CHECK OUT THIS FILM EARLY!

http://imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0325710/samuraibanner.jpg

http://imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0325710/LS-3704.jpg

http://imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0325710/LS-5583.jpg

Synopsis: "In Japan, Civil War veteran Captain Nathan Algren trains Emperor Meiji's troops in the way of the gun as they prepare to defeat the last of the country's samurais. But Algren's passion is swayed when he is captured by the samurai and learns about their traditions and code of honor.”

Directed By: Edward Zwick (Glory)

Screenplay By: John Logan (Gladiator), Marshall Herskovitz (I Am Sam - Producer), Edward Zwick (The Siege)

Produced By: Tom Cruise (Vanilla Sky), Edward Zwick (I Am Sam), Paula Wagner (Vanilla Sky), etc.

Music Composed By: Hans Zimmer (Gladiator)

Genres: War, Epic

MPAA Rating: "R," for strong violence and battle sequences.

Feature Running Time: 144 minutes.

Starring: Tom Cruise (Vanilla Sky), Timothy Spall (Vanilla Sky), Koyuki (Laundry), and Ken Watanabe (Genji: A Thousand-Year Love)

http://imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0325710/lastsam-characterposter-1.jpg

http://imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0325710/teaser_onesheet.jpg

Thoughts: I am very excited to see this movie. I have always been one of Tom Cruise's biggest supporters, Edward Zwick is a great director, the original score, trailers and tv spots, and film companion book are excellent, and I love epic/war films. I also am extremely fascinated by Japanese culture, so that too is a major plus. With all of the RAVE reviews that are coming in (JoBlo - 9/10 - Oh yeah!), I am sure this will be one of the best films of the year, as well as a major contender come awards time.

A Warner Brothers Release.

Click here (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/the_last_samurai/trailer/large.html) for the trailer!

[The Rain Dog]

I gotta wait till Boxing Day :(

RD:( :(

[Moviefan1234]

Everything about this movie looks so good to me. The premise, acting, direction, and cinematography all look top notch. The TV spots are so enticing they make you want to immediately run to the theatre and see this baby. It'd take a lot for me to miss this in theatres. I can't bloody wait!

Moviefan1234 winces as he anticipates DM entering the thread ;)

[Freeway]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sleekproductions
[B]I don't know if you're aware of how things work around here, but underground wise, I have had this thread opening reserved for quite some time. Then again, I suppose that was back when DH was a member. I'll let it by, as there is nothing I can do, but my thread has now gone to waste... (I'll post it here anyways):





Last I checked you can't "reserve" a thread outright. You just have to post a thread for a film early if you want it.

I have already seen The Last Samurai and it's a great film. The best film of the year.

[moviemuffin]

Dances with Shoguns

I'm seeing it at a sneak preview Saturday.

[Annie Hall]

Originally posted by sleekproductions
I don't know if you're aware of how things work around here, but underground wise, I have had this thread opening reserved for quite some time. Then again, I suppose that was back when DH was a member. I'll let it by, as there is nothing I can do, but my thread has now gone to waste... (I'll post it here anyways):

There's no way to 'reserve' a thread, sorry sleek. Blankpage thought to open it first, and you posted your information. It just enhanced the thread and makes it a more informative read...there's really not a need to tell blank he "invaded your unspoken turf".

I can't wait for this flick, I've gotten really stoked for some reason, I may go to the sneak peak on Saturday...Tom Cruise looks great, as per usual lately.

[Damned Martian]

Originally posted by Moviefan1234
Moviefan1234 winces as he anticipates DM entering the thread ;) You knew it :D

Everything about this movie looks so bad to me. The premise, acting, direction, and cinematography all look utter crap. The TV spots are so lame they make you want to immediately run away from the theatres and avoid this piece of shit. It'd take a lot for me to see this. I can bloody wait till Britney Spears comes to my home to give me a blowjob before seeing this garbage!




:D

[Nate6]

I think you're definitely thinking of a different movie, DM. ;)

TLS looks excellent. Good early reviews, beautiful cinematography, exciting action, good plot, great director, this thing has it all. I'll be there.

[FeverDog420]

I'm already tired of this movie. Tired of Tom Cruise, tired of swordplay, tired of seeing the ad every day on the bus stop in front of my building.

[Lynn Minmei]

Looks great, and that 9/10 from Berge has made this one a very anticipated movie in my book. I'll be seeing it next week.

[The Other]

Annie Hall is right sleek. Also, there is NO need for all those huge pictures. It's a lot to handle for people with slower connections. I personally think there should be like a 3 picture limit on opening threads, and I mean smaller pictures than the huge posters sleek posted.

As for the movie, I'm still split. I just don't think it looks all that great despite a the rave review that JoBlo gave it. I usually agree with him, but I'm not sure about it this time.

[blankpage]

Unless you PMed 'The Other' and asked him to 'reserve' it for you, and he said yes, there is no such thing as reserving a thread. I was excited for the flick, and I was around at midnight (plus, I hardly ever post threads here), so I thought it'd be cool, that's all. It's no big deal, really, and I'm sorry that all that work was wasted.


Anway, I just thought I'd clear that up before it gets into a big 'thang'.


P.S.- I still think DM is talking about 'Out of Time'.

[sleekproductions]

Sorry about the mess... I'm certainly not mad, I was just upset that the work I did for the thread was wasted, but it got posted anyways, so its all good...

[Strider]

This film looks great! "The Last Samurai" is my second most-anticipated film of the year. The film has a great director, Edward Zwick, who also directed my all-time favorite film "Glory". The story sounds excellent, the action sequences look fantastic, and the film looks absolutely stunning as well. I really hope "The Last Samurai" turns out to be a great film, because I'm looking forward to seeing it so very much.

Strider

[Lynn Minmei]

http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/lastsamuraiscripttoscreen.html

This is a cool flash animation showing the translation from script to storyboard to film. Check it out...It's awesome!

[therealjohng]

Just got back from it. It is amazing. 9/10. Everything about it is just great. Tom Cruise is really good. Not Oscar good, but good. Ken Watanabe on the other hand, deserves an Oscar nomination for best supporting actor. The cinematography, art direction, costumes, editing. All top notch. Edward Zwick has once again proven himself of the epic picture. Although in my opinion he is not worthy of a Best Director nod, and the picture isn't as well. Still this is one of the best pictures of the year. Great, great movie.

[dg885]

Just got back from seeing The Last Samurai sneak preview. Absolutely amazing 9/10! Must see!

[BarkingSparrow]

Saw this also last night.

Thoroughly enjoyed it, but this film has so obviously been crafted with an eye towards the mass market, as contrasted to Master and Commander, which I thought was the better film.

Cons: safe, predictable plot, too much Hollywood in it -- the slo-mo, some of the humor, and the drawn-out, slighly hokey ending. As a big fan of Kurosawa, I have to say that the Last Samurai falls well short of his historical epics.

Pros: Ken Watanabe is great as Katsumoto. Some excellent battle scenes, and oustanding photography.

Tom Cruise is OK -- sorry, I just did not find him so believeable in his role as Capt Algren, and his limited range is rather obvious in contrast to Watanabe. Tom Cruise sort of took me out of the film to some degree at times.

Overall give this about a 7.5/10. Good, but nowhere close to being the best film of the year.

[::salty::]

I liked it...surprised it was as good as it was actually, I was expecting it to be far worse and even laughable but in the end I was pleasantly entertained.

[ilovemovies]

Originally posted by FeverDog420
I'm already tired of this movie. Tired of Tom Cruise, tired of swordplay, tired of seeing the ad every day on the bus stop in front of my building.

I feel the same way about Cheaper by the Dozen!

[darkface]

Movie looks great. I'm gonna go see it Friday night, hurah, can't wait. Cruise looks terrific as does the rest of the cast. Count me int!

[usuallysuspected]

I wasn't really hyped up about this movie, but the more I have read the more my excitement level has gone up. Now Im damn going crazy with anticipation, especially after hearing nothing but positve reviews. This sounds like the movie I have been waiting for all year, and that is something with the entire package (acting,cinematography,good story, samurai's, ninja's) you know, all the basic movie needs. Cant' wait to see it on Friday.

[moviemuffin]

David Poland from The Hot Button writes:

The Last Samurai is a movie that pretends to be anti-imperialist while its internal meaning, telling the story of a white man who comes to be as good or better than those in a culture that is completely new to him, could not be more imperialistic. The road is littered with beautiful shots and good intentions, but in the end, that's the story of this movie.

This is the thing that worries me most about Last Samurai. I am seeing it Friday, but I'm a bit concerned.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by moviemuffin
I am seeing it Friday, but I'm a bit concerned.


Don't be, it's fucking amazing.

[daddiefatsacks]

Been waiting a very long time to see this film, and the buzz surrounding it on this site is marvelous, i will be at the theater this weekend hopefully, and can't wait to see Cruise gut the fuck out of someone.

p.s. who is the chick he falls for? dayamn first Go Go now this broad?? i might move to japan.

[Damned Martian]

Originally posted by moviemuffin
David Poland from The Hot Button writes:

The Last Samurai is a movie that pretends to be anti-imperialist while its internal meaning, telling the story of a white man who comes to be as good or better than those in a culture that is completely new to him, could not be more imperialistic. The road is littered with beautiful shots and good intentions, but in the end, that's the story of this movie.

This is the thing that worries me most about Last Samurai. I am seeing it Friday, but I'm a bit concerned. I trust his entire review. He thinks the same than me about the entirety of Zwick's work, and if this is not an exception, then i know i won't see it. It'll be a terrible shit-fest as Courage Under Fire and The Siege were.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by Damned Martian
I trust his entire review. He thinks the same than me about the entirety of Zwick's work, and if this is not an exception, then i know i won't see it. It'll be a terrible shit-fest as Courage Under Fire and The Siege were.


Go see it. You might be surprised. I was. When it was over I was like, "That was an Edward Zwick flick?" I had totally forgotten that he did it while I was watching the movie.

[Jess]

This movie looks really boring. I'll probably just rent it when it comes out as opposed to forking over $8.50 just to be bored. Plus, me no likey Tom Cruise.

[TheGodSon]

Something is wrong here. The 'Honey' thread has more replies then this one. :confused:

[Fisting Ackbar]

Originally posted by TheGodSon
Something is wrong here. The 'Honey' thread has more replies then this one. :confused:

Oh snap, I better post in this thread so it gets more replies.

And so this post has some value to it: this film looks excellent.

[Annie Hall]

I disagree with that snippet from the review entirely. That is not the point of this film...it's about finding your place in the world, and looking within yourself. It's deeply soulful and highly intelligent...to simplistically say "white man becomes samurai" it just guts it with no thought as to what the real message was.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by Annie Hall
I disagree with that snippet from the review entirely. That is not the point of this film...it's about finding your place in the world, and looking within yourself. It's deeply soulful and highly intelligent...to simplistically say "white man becomes samurai" it just guts it with no thought as to what the real message was.


I totally agree. This is also basically to bump it past Honey. But again, I do agree with Annie about that comment. People who think that about this movie are to stupid to see the point of the movie.

[vtadave]

TOM CRUISE as a freaking samurai warrior? How is THAT a good idea?

[Moviefan1234]

Originally posted by Damned Martian
I trust his entire review. He thinks the same than me about the entirety of Zwick's work, and if this is not an exception, then i know i won't see it. It'll be a terrible shit-fest as Courage Under Fire and The Siege were.

While The Siege was bad, Courage Under Fire was great. Knowing that this is from the same director gets me in the theatre. Like Annie has already said, I disagree with everything in that review and echo her entire comment.

[blankpage]

Originally posted by vtadave
TOM CRUISE as a freaking samurai warrior? How is THAT a good idea?


BEN AFFLECK AND J LO starring in a movie together? How is THAT a good idea?

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by blankpage
BEN AFFLECK AND J LO starring in a movie together? How is THAT a good idea?



Well, if it was a porno.

[BadCoverVersion]

Looks pretty fucking COOL...Spall is the main attraction for me personally, but I've heard great things about Watanabe too.

I'll likely be seeing this one in the flicks...my b/f aint keen on Tommy C. but he's a big fan of the Samurai shebang...so ya know, I'm making the effort and all...;)

[Arathon]

Looks BRILLIANT. I've been eagerly waiting and anticipating for this film's release. Sadly I won't be able to see it until early January.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by Arathon
Looks BRILLIANT. I've been eagerly waiting and anticipating for this film's release. Sadly I won't be able to see it until early January.


That's too bad. Because it kicks a lot of ass.

[Damned Martian]

It seems to be each day less and less fresh... (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheLastSamurai-1127779/)

67% when I posted the link... I don't think it has a chance at the oscars against Master & Commander...

[TheGodSon]

You do remember Titanic right? It won best picture and now it's being called one of the worst films in recent memory. Who knows what could happen to this one.

I'll judge when I actually see it.

[Damned Martian]

Originally posted by TheGodSon
You do remember Titanic right? It won best picture and now it's being called one of the worst films in recent memory. Who knows what could happen to this one.

I'll judge when I actually see it. Well, I'm talking about reviews from proffesional critics... As far as I know, none of them have changed their opinion on Titanic: all those who loved it (88%) still do, and all those who hated (12%) it still do...

Now, if you want to enter in common people's opinion, that varies a lot, and also depends on the hype a movie has had. I don't like Titanic, but in that moment I bashed it more than I hated it since everybody was talking diamonds about it. Now, I tend not to bash it much, since there are more people who already hate it.

But that wasn't the point in my former statement, it was just to take a look at the critics' opinions. Early reviews loved it, but the tide has changed a bit.

[Moviefan1234]

Relax, DM. It's on the upswing. Besides not everyone likes samurai films. It really seems to be a love it/hate it genre.

[TheGodSon]

Got my tickets purchased! I'm so excited. Seeing it at 10:15 with my woman.


:D


Thoughts to come tonight after I see it.

[HHH123007]

I just got back from it...

It was entertaining for what it was, but check back with me in a year and see if I actually remember it. The last 10-15 minutes rate very high on the silly-o-meter.

I can really understand both sides of the loved it/hated it reviews....

*** or (6/10)

[blankpage]

Yeah, the Samurai genre is pretty much love it or hate it. Either you love guys swinging swords and mix it with some human drama, or you don't. I sure do. So, I'll be pretty biased going into this.

[The Delfonics]

LAST SAMAURI - (6/10)

bah!! All expectations were letdown! Very cliched and predictable. Every line was so predictable, the story was a joke. The US army general was about as 1 dimensional as a horror-movie villian. Big letdown for me. I enjoyed the ride enough to warrant a 6/10 maybe a 5 when I think about it.

The opening of the flick was great, the battle scenes were good and I enjoyed Cruise but viewers beware: You are in for a long and poor dialouged movie. The ending lost my interest and my god the Emporer of Japan was the biggest pussy in movie history. I wish the movie had taken the potential and ran with it better with more interesting dialouge and characters. As much as I have said bad about the film, Im not bashing it. I was hoping for a really serious story but some of the cheesier elements kept me from really liking it. Ill take Kill BIll please.

[blankpage]

Oh no. Delfonics and HHH123007's reviews were pretty negative. I usually agree with them when it comes to current movies, so I just don't know. I'm still excited, but these two reviews have been an, oh, wake-up call, I suppose. :(

[The Delfonics]

Originally posted by blankpage
Oh no. Delfonics and HHH123007's reviews were pretty negative. I usually agree with them when it comes to current movies, so I just don't know. I'm still excited, but these two reviews have been an, oh, wake-up call, I suppose. :(

Blank I think being a big Seventh Samauri fan, you should enjoy its nature but in a sense you may be letdown by comparing the two. I think my review was way to harsh. Its a good film to goto the theater and watch but in the sense that I was pumped up loads for this movie, it was a letdown.

[usuallysuspected]

I loved this movie. 9.5/10. The cinematography, acting, battle scenes, and story all had me hooked from begining to end. I agree though, the Emperor was a pussy, but a lot of men in power are, so I thought it made sense to have to him talk like a school girl, but anyways, great movie, easily one of the best of the year.

[chinton]

Funny I read The Delfonics review and I think Im the exact oppisite of him. Unlike him I was not excited about this film. thought it would be decent but thats about it. Imagine my surprise when I abolutely loved this film and found myself sobbing at the end. Thankfully, the entire theater was so i didnt feel too bad.


Watching this film really amde me think of Master And Commander in the sense of what one film did wrong and what one film did right in my opinion. Both films are historical epics. While having some action films both films ar e primarily character studies. Both films are beatiful. yet, that is where all similarities end.

For Master And Commander did not engage me at all this film really swept me up in its enviroment and emotion. What really got to me was the pacing for this film. While it was extremely long I did not notice it all. Time flew by me especially as the movie went on. During the grand final battle sequnce I was really on the edge of my seat. This is simply a wonderful film that really knows how to pull the heartstrings without being cloying and having pulse-pounding action scenes(loved the ninja sequnce).

The second best part of the film was the acting. Tom Cruise once again shows that hes not just a pretty face and gives a grounded performance. While not a perfect performance he is amazingly good and really impressed me.

The standout though was the actor who playes The Last Samuari. Sorry Im not even going to bother with spelling. But he was fantastic and he simply was the character. i never doubted him for a second. Great peformance.

In the end I was surprised how mcuh I liked it. When I started wiping my eyes during the great ending I was really surprised how in t he end how much this film moved me.

Go see it now!!!!!!!!


9/10


P.S. It occured to me this film had a lot of qualities that I should have hated. After all everyone knows where the story is going and the ending might not have actually been realistic yet I found myself ignoring all of these qualities because I was just so moved.

[moviemuffin]

I can't say I was disappointed, because I expected it to be bad.

It was.

I posted my review in Jo's thread and on my site. Blech.

Someday Hollywood is going to hire writers.

[deatheater]

had no school today.So I decided to go see The Last Samuri a film i have been dying to see..............so began THE ALLTIME WORST FILM EXPERENCE EVER!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

That................ohhhhhhhhhhh!



1st thing i stay out incold waiting to see it.Then when I get in i find that they had put the info in wrong and that the movie started 1 hour earlier.games.And had missed when the mentioned the error.Well I go back outside to get a refund and And go to the back of the line to get another ticket.By time i got up their the nmovie was SOLD OUT!So because i have been dying to see it i wait back outside and get tickets for a later show.

Like the moron i am I cruise around town and come back.Only to find that those with tickets were waiting in a line.So im like way at the back of this huge line.I wait another 40 mins getting in.I get seats near thefront of the theater.As i sit down a huge woman with this guy sit near me.She has hotdogs with sourcream chile onion mayonase and ketchup.4 of themThe ordor of them was so rank.Not to mention the guy had VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY horrible body odore.I MEAN RANK!Sweating whole time and farting and crap.The woman kept munching and saliva actully flew on my shirt.By then i was completely beyound pissed.And wanted to go against my gental natue and BREAK BONS!So i talk to my self and calm down.Then the ads starts.30 mins of complete crap.then the movie is starting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then.............the screen is upside down and the picture burns.I nearly break out into a foaming rage.Then the fat manager said in his sqeaking annoying voice"WE ARE EXPERINCING BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH AND WE WILL NOW GIVE YOU REFUNDS".And so i got the refund.Maybe i can see it tomorrow.

[bowieee]

My Now top 3 for this year:

1. Lost in Translation
2. Kill BIll
3. Last Samurai

The numbers speak for themselves. The Last Samurai blew me away.

[Lynn Minmei]

I'll be seeing this tommorow. Annie and bowieee have jump started my faith for this film. Believe me, I trust you guys more than some critic.

I feel like this could be this year's Gangs of New York- A love it or hate it film starring a huge actor and a great Oscar-Nominated director. Honestly, there aren't enough films left this year, at least in my book, for the academy to nominate for Best Picture, if they exclude this one.

However, RotK will be the bigger film in B.O. and probably will be hot ticket for Best Picture.

[TheGodSon]

Holy crap. With out further ado.

Best. Movie. Of. The. Year.




I loved this fucking movie. Every second of it. Not a moment where I lost interest or was bored. Tom Cruise is not Tom Cruise in this movie, so do not worry. His acting was absolutely top notch. It's honestly one of the best movies I have seen in a long ass time. Beautiful cinematography, great editing, excellent acting. Fuck, excellent everything! I pray that this movie gets some consideration come oscar time. It's funny, emotional, and very entertaining. Go see it right now!!!!



10/10.

[darkface]

INCREDIBLE!

9/10

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/the_last_samurai/samurai.jpg

What an amazing movie. I had a little high hopes, and it surpased it! The characterization for this movie was great, really made you feel for the characters throughout the film. And what a supporting cast! Katsumo deserves an acadamy award for best supporting actor IMO, and i know i'm not alone. It had some great cinematography, dialogue, action, suspense, laughter. I haven't cried like this in a movie since Gladiator. Just can't say enough about it. The last half was was, as it always should be, and it gave me something that i haven't felt in a movie for a while, which is emotion.

THEATER COMPLAINT! it came down to the last seconds, and the movie cut out, we were all pissed (packed theater) the dudes up in the room sweatin a storm, but i was glad, damn idiot, he got it fixed, and it was right where it was and then two seconds later it faded to black and the credits rolled lol. We waited like 4-5 minutes for him to fix it just for the remaining two seconds, but that's okay, cause i'd rather it do it then, rather then during the middle of the movie or somethin. So i complained as should everyone and got two free tickets to any movie!

GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND SEE THIS MOVIE!

[blankpage]

Originally posted by The Delfonics
Blank I think being a big Seventh Samauri fan, you should enjoy its nature but in a sense you may be letdown by comparing the two. I think my review was way to harsh. Its a good film to goto the theater and watch but in the sense that I was pumped up loads for this movie, it was a letdown.

Oh, no doubt. I'm pretty sure that this won't come close to being as good as 'Seven Samurai', but I'm just hoping I'll enjoy what I see. I understand what you mean about your review, too, and I don't think it was too harsh. A good film to see on the big screen, because of its epic size, but on the whole, a major disappointment.

[HHH123007]

Originally posted by blankpage
Oh no. Delfonics and HHH123007's reviews were pretty negative. I usually agree with them when it comes to current movies, so I just don't know. I'm still excited, but these two reviews have been an, oh, wake-up call, I suppose. :(

Mine is actually a "thumbs up" review.....6/10 is *** in my rating scale.;)

[chinton]

For all the people who keep calling me negative I just say look at my review. See I like movies!!

[sharkstank]

seeing it at 3 today. cant wait

WWWWHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Shockwave]

best movie ive seen this year. Truly outstanding. Emotional, gripping, and packed with at much intellect and wit as it was with action.

10/10

[MadsenOMC]

SPOILERS

What a huge disappointment. This is one awful Hollywood piece of crap. I am a big Ed Zwick fan. I love Glory, Legends of the Fall and Courage Under Fire (for me The Siege falls apart at the end). I expected really good things from this. Cruise is OK and the brilliant John Toll's cinematography is sublime. The action scenes are also very well executed and mildly exciting. But the rest is garbage. It feels like it is about 78 hours long. It is boring as hell in places. It is also one of the most insulting and condescending movies I have ever seen. Tom Cruise is going to remind the Emperor of Japan of the old ways and teach him about honor and courage? Give me a f*cking break. And how in the hell does he not die at the end? Are you kidding me? What a damn joke. Everyone else is mowed down by a Howitzer and Tommy somehow survives. Please. The last 10 minutes or so are painfully sentimental and heavy-handed. Embarrassing. Plus, I never buy his complete transformation. I can accept that he comes to greatly admire the people and their ways. But nothing more than that. Ugh. This is one terrible movie. Leave it to Hollywood to trivialize a culture and turn it into a lame Tom Cruise vehicle.

4/10

[flowrchild]

The Last Samurai- 7/10

I am not really a big fan of historical epic war dramas. Never was my cup of tea, still isn't. That being said, this movie wasn't bad. It was decent. I won't go so far as to say it was brilliant or horrible but it was watchable, which is more than I can say for most movies like it.

Pros: Beautifully shot. They shot the film in New Zealand and it was just breathtakingly gorgeous. Wonderful Cinematography. The battle scenes are spectacular and worth the price of admission, in my opinion. This film overall won't leave a lasting mark in my memory but I will remember the battle scenes, especially the final one, as extremely moving. Also the scene with the son was very well done. The film is almost 2 and a half hours but it didn't drag on for me which was a plus, since I tend to have limited attention span with these sorts of flicks.

Cons: The dialogue. Completely derivative, wooden, hollow. Does hollywood not know how to hire good screen writers anymore? The love story was VERY unnecessary, forced, cliche, awkward, and should have been edited out of the movie entirely. I despised the ending, a bit too heavy-handed for my taste. Certain elements of the plot were undeveloped and seemed to appear out of nowhere. None of the performances I found particularly noteworthy or stand-out.

Final thoughts: Worth seeing but not worth running to see with a load of high expectations. Just take it for what it is. I would skip seeing this and see "21 Grams" instead if you get a chance, which I think is a far superior film.

[Gone in 60sec]

OMG
it was awsome 10/10
it was a incerible epic.....tom cruise was wonderful my favorite film of the year all the way i wanna see it again

[bowieee]

O.K. I finally have found time to write a decent review of what I thought about the last samurai. It's a movie that reaches out on so many different levels. On one level it's a beautifully shot historical epic showing a culture wrestle itself trying to find it's place in a rapidly changing world, On another it's a character portrait of a man ripped apart from the choices he has made, the deeds he had to done, and how he found a way to ease his soul and to find for once something he actually believed in. Mixed in with all this is an emperor trying to find his own voice in a world of doubt and the painting of a sad period when Japan had become the rest of the worlds lap dog. Wrapped all together this movie struck so many notes in me, I was spellbound.

*SPOILERS*******

Delfonics you say the emperor was a pussy.... That was a huge part of the movie. The Emperor had no idea how to stand up for himself so he became the puppet of the greedy council men around him. I absolutley loved that end scene where you actually see the change in the emperor... when he realizes it's his role to lead Japan not just to stand in the shadows asking everyone else to make decisions for him. That was a powerfull moment and I thought it really was the right note to help close out the film...

***End Spoilers*******


10/10

(Even if Cruise spit out some cheesy lines every once in a long while)

[Lynn Minmei]

Amazing. This film is in the spirit of the Samurai. You'll find that there is no detectible CGI, if there even is any CGI. The battle scenes are as authentic as you can get. You can see every combatant in them. Amazing stuff.

Give Watanabe an Oscar. He deserves it more than that airhead Johnny Depp.

9.5/10

[The Delfonics]

Originally posted by bowieee


*SPOILERS*******

Delfonics you say the emperor was a pussy.... That was a huge part of the movie. The Emperor had no idea how to stand up for himself so he became the puppet of the greedy council men around him. I absolutley loved that end scene where you actually see the change in the emperor... when he realizes it's his role to lead Japan not just to stand in the shadows asking everyone else to make decisions for him. That was a powerfull moment and I thought it really was the right note to help close out the film...

***End Spoilers*******




******SPOILERS as well******



Well it just doesnt feel right to have a situation like that relating to high goverment officials. It shouldnt come down to this character being moved by another character (Tom Cruise) It seemed a bit cheesy in that sense. What I was hoping for a was a story that was very serious though at times I couldnt help but question that aspect. Like how the US General (not sure of his rank) was very 1 dimensional. Why was he only saying "My God" and "Good Lord"? How does Tom Cruise not die at the end with all the guns? Just some simple shit like that pushed me over.

6/10 is a solid grade though, I think people are taking my review as a bashing. If I flat out didnt like this movie I would have given it a 4/10. Its got a lot of solid stuff in it. The problem was I was annoyed by some of those smaller things and decided to only write my review based on that and I forgot to say I actually thought the flick was a decent sit through. Ive watched some more pieces of it at my work and have gained a bit more faith in it but to me, like someone said, its like Gangs of New York. I had a problem liking GONY though many loved it. Last Samauri had me saying best picture alot during it like the first battle sequence when the poorly trained Japanese soldiers get slaughtered and Cruise battles his way out. That was great. Overall my first blurb wasnt how I veiwed the film on a whole and perhaps Ill see it again but as much as there was good, there were some nagging problems. Oddly I did the same thing with Mystic River. Easily a 10/10 until the last 30 mins where I couldnt get over Penn killing the "you knows whos" character.

[bugdog]

Funny you should mention that -- because "Mystic River" is still my favorite film of the year.
I did not think many critics would like "The last Samurai" at all...because of the ending, etc. But I was just incredibly moved. Plus I loved all those colossal battle scenes, which looked to be filmed with (oh my gosh) real people rather than computer generated images. Cool.

Ken Watanabe definitely deserves a Supporting Actor nomination, and I would not cringe if Tom Cruise at least got a nomination. (I don't think ANYONE can beat Sean Penn for Best Actor this year anyway.)

It's interesting. The National Board of Review called "Mystic River" the best film of the year, but its director Clint Eastwood got snubbed. Instead, the National Board of Review named Edward Zwick Best Director for "Mystic River."

I've always admired Zwick. OK, I didn't like "Legends of the Fall," (and took crap from friends). But I just walked in on "Special Bulletin" on TV and it scared the hell out of me. I thought "The Siege" had interesting things to say. "Glory" was just wonderful.
But even seeing that "The Last Samurai" was derivative of some other movies, I still loved it.
I think it will be a movie that really splits people into Liked It/Hated It--about 50-50.

Meanwhile, I still hope "Lord of the Rings: Return of the King" blows every other film out of the water. I am SO looking forward to that.

[sharkstank]

well i liked it. i'm feeling lazy, and i'm reviewing this for the school paper monday, so heres a pro con list

+
It was visually stunning
great performances (cruise. watanabe, chick who played taka)
amazing battle scenes
spot on humor
the dramatic moments worked
smart action movie
KATSUMOTO'S THE MAN!
good script
subtle love story
cruise/kids relationship
a samurai code of honor that you could feel
sword fights awesome
surprisingly bloody
cruise's transformation was handled well
riveting story and execution
NINJAS VS SAMURAIS BABEE!

con
the first act felt thrown together and messy
the journal which was used to narrate some parts was bad
some cheesy dialogue
cheesy ending
some thinly wrought characters(black haired samurai was kick ass, as was the old protector of cruise, but i wanted to know more about them.)
a little longer than it needed to be

overall, i was not disappointed and i really enjoyed it.great movie
***1/2 out of ****

WWWWHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[MadsenOMC]

The ending is the worst part of the movie. Do you understand how insulting and just plain ridiculous it is to have Tom Cruise show the Emperor of Japan how to find honor and courage ? To have a Westerner who has only been there for a few months educate the people of Japan? Another case of Hollywood using the white man to teach a native people about their own history. Disgusting. Makes me want to puke.

[Lynn Minmei]

Madsen, you may want to warn people that there might be spoilers in your post...


*SPOILERS FOR ENDING*
























I think that it Tom Cruise telling the Emperor what his culture should do is acceptible because Tom Cruise became a Samurai, while the Emperor was just the ruler that he was.
















*END SPOILERS*

[darkface]

***Spoilers***

I don't think Nathan made the emperor change his mind about courage, and tradition or anything. You can tell throughout the emporers scenes he was holding it all in. He needed to tell how he really feels, instead of having people speak for him. And having Nathan do that in the end just pushed him over the edge and the emporer said what he truly felt.


Neways, what's really great about this film, is how in the first battle against the Samurai's you were scared, horrified of those Samurai's, they were so intimidating. Then after you learn who they are, what they fight for, and so on... it really changes your mind. You open up to them. even with a couple bad reviews mixed in there, i still don't change my mind, still a great movie IMO!

[Lynn Minmei]

Originally posted by darkface


Neways, what's really great about this film, is how in the first battle against the Samurai's you were scared, horrified of those Samurai's, they were so intimidating. Then after you learn who they are, what they fight for, and so on... it really changes your mind. You open up to them. even with a couple bad reviews mixed in there, i still don't change my mind, still a great movie IMO!

The film also puts you in Nathan's mindset, so that the movie isn't predictable, you just know what he's going to do because that's what the film has taught you and made you want to do.

[moviemuffin]

I hope I never end up in a mindset that exploitive.

I'd kill myself. Interestingly, Nathan "adopts" all the cool Samurai stuff but not that bit.

Cuz then he couldn't get the girl and all.

*puke*

[The Delfonics]

Originally posted by moviemuffin
I hope I never end up in a mindset that exploitive.

I'd kill myself. Interestingly, Nathan "adopts" all the cool Samurai stuff but not that bit.

Cuz then he couldn't get the girl and all.

*puke*

Ya, the historical inaccuracies are also annoying. Tom Cruise fighting off 5 samauri warriors with a flag? In real life, he would have been chop suey in 10 seconds... but alas the story must go on. Ill admit that scene was cool, just cheesy.

[MadsenOMC]

Sorry, but I can't ignore the fact that Tom Cruise shows the freakin' Emperor of China how to grow a pair and do what is right. After being a Samurai for, what, three months? It is typical Hollywood hocum people. There is no reality or historical accurary present here. What is the message? "Hey Japanese people, you just needed Tom Cruise to show you the way. We know that the Samurai have been fighting for their way of life for years and years and years, but give ol' Tom Cruise a couple of months and he'll work his magic." (By the way, I'm a fan of Cruise so I'm not venting because I hate him or anything like that.) I ain't buyin' what this movie is selling.

[Shockwave]

I'd kill myself. Interestingly, Nathan "adopts" all the cool Samurai stuff but not that bit.


It never says he becomes a samuri. It states that he chooses to fight WITH the Samuri. He adopts their fighting style as a way to try and purify himself and his inner demons. Fighting with a sword and charging gattling guns is not "cool", he did it to honor them and show his friendship.

Ans doesnt the sword he is given say "the old ways have joined the new" or something?

Think of it like the Ronin Nathan fights on the street. They can sword fight, but they werent Samuri. I thought "The Last Samuri" was not Algren but Katsumaro(or whatever his name was)

SPOILERS!




And cruise didnt show shit at the end but bring the emporers true feelings to the surface about his teacher. It was regret that u could visibly see building in him throughout the movie, and now it was too late. His teacher was dead. All Algren did was fullfill his friends wish, which was to convince the emporer not to forget the past.

Thats why they all bow at the end, to honor the death of the last samuri, and a man that was a national hero.

[Weapon X]

For now, I'll keep this short and sweet. (MILD SPOILERS, by the way.)

This movie is:

1. Beautifully shot. (Sunrises! I looooove sunrises!)

2. Impeccably acted. (Ken Watanabe = super-badass.)

3. Intensely engaging, both on a dramatic and action level. (When you wanna stand up and cheer when a bad guy gets slashed, you know they're doing something right!)

4. Not afraid to go in a lightly different direction than you might expect. Take, for example, the scene where Taka dresses Algren in her late husband's armor, and they exchange that brief kiss. Even after all the emotional buildup to it, it felt very uncomfortable, and I could clearly see that on both their faces. It didn't instantly evolve into a full-on romance, and didn't quite do so even by the end of the movie.

5. At times, admittedly, a bit on the cheesy side, but it's the expensive kind you can only get imported from some unpronouncable village in France - if that makes any sense to you (I'm still workin' on it myself).

Now the obvious nitpick is that its plot mirrors Dances With Wolves a little too heavily...in fact, one could say they're virtually identical. There is, however, one major difference between the two:

Dances With Wolves bored the shit out of me. The Last Samurai did not.

Not to mention, 2003 seems to have been THE year to look good weilding a samurai sword. First The Matrix Reloaded and Kill Bill, and now this? I gotta start collecting those things!

9/10

[MadsenOMC]

When someone else says it better...Here's a great review that talks about many of my problems with the movie.

The Last Samurai is not a bad film. But it is an evil one.

I do not like political correctness or revisionist history. If a film was made during an era where people had a behavior pattern that I now find abhorrent, I don't throw out the artistic effort with the emotional bathwater. I don’t believe in throwing out westerns because they were insensitive to the American Indians or hiding racially insensitive movies of the Pre-Civil rights years.

Movies like Bamboozled or Irreversible or House of Sand & Fog or Romance or Errol Morris’ doc Mr. Death, or Raw Deal: A Question of Consent or Fight Club and others challenge one to explore the issues that are raised in very profound ways, however uncomfortable the ride.

But what does drive me to distraction is quality work that makes an audience feel like it is having one experience while the subtext of the film is saying something else. That is my problem with The Last Samurai. It’s beautifully shot. It’s well acted. It moves apace. There are some failed efforts, like the completely botched Greek chorus character played by the great Timothy Spall, who is a pale reflection of the same character played by Saul Rubinek in Unforgiven. But that is the flea on the ass of this elephant.

The Last Samurai is a movie that pretends to be anti-imperialist while its internal meaning, telling the story of a white man who comes to be as good or better than those in a culture that is completely new to him, could not be more imperialistic. The road is littered with beautiful shots and good intentions, but in the end, that's the story of this movie.

I’ve found this to be a trademark of Ed Zwick’s work. He is a very talented guy. He builds very interesting, real characters in his films and has a real touch with emerging movie stars. But he always makes the wrong moral choice in the end, often switching sides so late in the game as to leave the audience happy from momentum.

Here, the trouble starts pretty early on.

I’m going to stay spoiler-free for a while. But if you really want to see the film with clear eyes, don’t go any further. Actually, you’ve already gone too far…

The movie, The Last Samurai, does open with our leading samurai, high on a hill, looking deep and profound, as Ken Watanabe often does. But after we get the title card, we go to the real “last samurai” of the film, Tom Cruise. He is a drunken, broken down former soldier who is touring as a side show attraction to sell rifles.

Cruise’s Nathan Algren is soon after purchased by the bad, modern Japanese guys, hired at an excessive price to train a Japanese conscript army in the use of modern (in 1867) weapons. We are not told why the Japanese are so interested in this rude, alcoholic boor, but their need for him is absolute. We also get to meet the official American bad guy of the film, played by the always evil and all too obvious Tony Goldwyn. (Zwick also loaded the dice against the rifle salesman who fires Cruise at the top of the film by hiring William Atherton – best known perhaps as the guy who is worse than Hannibal Lechter – to play that role.)

Once in Japan, we get the set-up of the wimpy Emperor who is a slave to modernism and the samurai, who is honorable for his belief in tradition. The conscripts are under-trained and utterly incompetent. And the action relies on a story turn that could only happen in a screenplay where some evil character has to make a choice so stupid that it launches the rest of the story. He makes another such decision in the third act.

At this point, the movie is already close to being lost. This is the story about the last samurai, right? So what does the personal journey of an angry American have to do with it?

Why doesn’t the filmmaker really explain why this man is so lost? Is it really because he has seen what a soldier sees? If so, why is there honor in the fight… any fight?

Why doesn’t the filmmaker deal with the reality of the real last samurai, Saigo? American Imperialism in Japan was a lot more complex and interesting than this movie has time for or interest in, as was the story of the man who was the last samurai. Zwick goes for the black and white version of the story. Modern bad. Ancient good. Americans are evil, except for the movie star. The Japanese are either evil or suckers, except for our heroic samurai and those who are enlightened by our white movie star.

How do you make a movie like that in 2003?

The real life hero, Saigo, did his best to find an alternative to the demise of his like, the samurai. He was a politician as well as a warrior and a hero. In this movie, Watanabe’s Katsumoto is reduced to a Charlie Chan character with six-pack abs. This is not for lack of effort or skill from Watanabe. But he is stuck with a character that is there to assist Algren’s journey, as though it were as important as the journey of his people.

But here’s what really got me – Zwick and Cruise were on Oprah and I saw them on Oprah After The Show. I don’t really watch Oprah, but I like Oprah After The Show because it usually has a more relaxed feel and they operate more in real time than in TV time. So Zwick explains what the movie is about… “This country tends not to know a lot about other cultures… we tend not to care… and we tend to pay some serious consequences for that not knowing.” He then goes on to say of the film, “It’s about authenticity and accountability… about taking accountability for your life. Owning your life.”

That is not the lesson of the samurai, especially at the time of this story. The samurai were not about the western notion of self. The tragedy of the samurai was that they believed in a higher plane of responsibility. They believed in honor above self. That belief led to their extinction.

In movie language, Zwick's twisted view is all well and good. At the movies, everything is about us. We are the audience. But it is a bastardization of the Japanese culture that I truly believe Zwick honestly meant to be exploring.

That split, between good intentions and reality, is what makes Zwick’s work dangerous. He gets the significance of the situation, but the question he is compelled to ask as a result is “How is this about me?”

Well, it’s not always about you, Ed. And you are infecting a large group of people whose intentions are as well held as your own with this disease of self-involvement. Nathan Algren is the character with whom the audience identifies and his journey of rebirth and re-found passion is lovely. But not toput too fine a point on it… so what? An entire culture has been run over, part of it destroyed and the person I am concerned about is the one white guy in the room who has a dazzling smile?

BLECH!

I’ll give you one innocuous example. At one point, Algren picks up a practice sword with the innocent intent of playing with some kids. But he is a captive of the samurai. And the second or third in command tells him to put the “sword” down. Instead of doing the right thing and honoring his captor, who is, incidentally, treating him wonderfully, he challenges the man. When the “sword” is knocked out of his hand, he picks it up again. And again. And by the end, we are supposed to feel that the second in command was abusive and Algren made a brave stand. But he didn’t. He was a punk. And he deserved to get his butt kicked/swatted. He’s not a Cool Hand Luke anti-hero hero. He is a straight-forward hero, overcoming his haunted past. His failure to communicate is with men that he – and the audience - will come to honor. But the film must degrade the man who was right in order to make the hero heroic. That ain’t right.

I was going to do a spoiler section, but there is no point. Every major problem I have with the film goes to the same issues of subtext. The film is false. And it is so well made that it will seduce most viewers into sticking with Algren’s story and not thinking past it. But many will be less pleased with the film and never even realize that these issues are what is so disturbing. And some people just hate Tom Cruise. I do not. I think he can act. I am happy to have him as a movie star. And I believe that his intentions were good here too.

I just wish I gave a damn. I was too busy rooting for the real good guys.

- David Poland

[Damned Martian]

I read that review some days ago, and it defined pretty well all my thoughts on what the movie (from the trailers, plot and former credentials from the people involved on it) looked like. It was already mentioned before in this same thread, as well. And since the first extremely positive reviews came out, there have been much more reviews in this direction. So I don't think I'm wrong. If I know me well, I'll fall in this side of the cake. I'll spend my money better with other films.

[Lynn Minmei]

DM, it's sad to hear you won't see it. I wish I could convince you, but, alas...

[moviemuffin]

Originally posted by Shockwave
It never says he becomes a samuri. It states that he chooses to fight WITH the Samuri. He adopts their fighting style as a way to try and purify himself and his inner demons. Fighting with a sword and charging gattling guns is not "cool", he did it to honor them and show his friendship.

That's precisely the problem.

It's insulting to portray this wasp as a guy who gets the rewards of the culture without paying any of the dues. He even states in his narrative that he is not a man who has spiritual beliefs, yet he feels the place is somehow spiritual. Then turns around and achieves the stillness of a true warrior with apparent ease. Sorry, that's bullshit. Absolute spiritual stillness doesn't come unless you pay the dues.

Nor does the honor and respect of a people like these were. Americans like their stories simple. They like their heroes white. The mainstream will embrace this film as a great epic because they want simple, easily understood, intellectually vapid entertainment.

I don't. If other people do, that's fine, and not a huge surprise. But it's also disappointing. I'll say, though, I've been surprised how many people ARE getting it. A young kid at the movie theater I frequent approached me the other day when I was picking up my coupons. He asked if I'd seen it and what did I think. I asked him to tell me first.

I don't think he's a day over 16 but the first words out of his mouth were "it was just like Dances with Wolves, only in Japan. He even did the notebook thing with the sketches."

Now there's a kid who pays attention. :)

[Lynn Minmei]

I recognized the Dances With Wolves likeness and the journal, but it didn't take away form the film experience for me.

[thompsoncory]

I saw it today. I'll post a review later, but my rating is an 8/10.

[Annie Hall]

Originally posted by moviemuffin
That's precisely the problem.

It's insulting to portray this wasp as a guy who gets the rewards of the culture without paying any of the dues. He even states in his narrative that he is not a man who has spiritual beliefs, yet he feels the place is somehow spiritual. Then turns around and achieves the stillness of a true warrior with apparent ease. Sorry, that's bullshit. Absolute spiritual stillness doesn't come unless you pay the dues.

Nor does the honor and respect of a people like these were. Americans like their stories simple. They like their heroes white. The mainstream will embrace this film as a great epic because they want simple, easily understood, intellectually vapid entertainment.

I don't. If other people do, that's fine, and not a huge surprise. But it's also disappointing. I'll say, though, I've been surprised how many people ARE getting it. A young kid at the movie theater I frequent approached me the other day when I was picking up my coupons. He asked if I'd seen it and what did I think. I asked him to tell me first.

I don't think he's a day over 16 but the first words out of his mouth were "it was just like Dances with Wolves, only in Japan. He even did the notebook thing with the sketches."

Now there's a kid who pays attention. :)

I dunno, it seems as though your review, while making thoughtful points, is sort of judgemental. (Yes, I know that sounds brilliant "your critique is critical").

I didn't think this was intellectually vapid, I thought that the film was about Cruise's spirtual and emotional journey. It only portrayed the beginnings of his transformation, they didn't liken him to Katsumoto in spiritual development, they showed him learning about the Samurai and understanding humanity in a somewhat deeper fashion.

Sure, there are clichés in the film, but as I've said before, to merely reduce it to being about a white guy who becomes a samurai is not looking at the big picture. The film didn't end with Cruise as a samurai, and it didn't end with him being a brand-new person...his life with Katsumoto gave him the beginnings of peace of mind and the film ended with him continuing to work towards that goal.

I did not see this as a movie about Cruise becoming a samurai, but as Cruise being the device that showed us Katsumoto's culture. Katsumoto was, in my mind, the lead character and "The Last Samurai"...not Cruise.

But, everyone can have their own opinon...

[chinton]

You know Im not going to name named but I getting sick and tired of people telling me this intellectually lazy or Im intellectualy lazy for liking this film. I also like complex arty films but I also thought this for a beautful film too. And unlike a lot of people I thought it was powerful and moving. Excuse me if I grovel with the lower masses. If you dont like it fine. But dont put down other people as intellectually vacous becuase they liked it

[Slim]

Originally posted by moviemuffin
That's precisely the problem.

It's insulting to portray this wasp as a guy who gets the rewards of the culture without paying any of the dues. He even states in his narrative that he is not a man who has spiritual beliefs, yet he feels the place is somehow spiritual. Then turns around and achieves the stillness of a true warrior with apparent ease. Sorry, that's bullshit. Absolute spiritual stillness doesn't come unless you pay the dues.

Nor does the honor and respect of a people like these were. Americans like their stories simple. They like their heroes white. The mainstream will embrace this film as a great epic because they want simple, easily understood, intellectually vapid entertainment.

Excellent points there and in your review as well. I'll have to strongly agree for the most part. I certainly didn't hate it, but this movie is far too derivative, simple and Hollywood to be anything more than above average, in my opinion.

[chinton]

Spoilers!!!!!!!!!





I really dont see how its insulting at all. I mean if it was disrespecitng the culture in some way than i would say yes but I dont think it was. I espeically didnt see that as the most dynamic character was in fact the last Samauri. Also I dont see why Alger isnt allowed to be influenced adn changed by the culture. So becuase hes white and American then he denied the rewards of the culture. That seems kind of silly.

Another thing I dont know why people are taking this as historically important film. yes it does have a lot of interesting and important facts about samauris but you know what its also a movie. The film is not trying to portray Cruise as a last Samauri. He was simply reacting to the culture and was ultimately changed. If you want a more historically complete samurai epic then read Shogun but this wasnt Shogun nor was it trying to be anyhting like Shogun.

Also why is everyone complaining the ending with the emperor. All Cruise was doing was presenting the samari's swords back to the emperor, not being a world diplomat. What changed the emperor was Alger in specific but instead triggered the resentment and doubts the emperor was having about the council and his teacher. I found it to be a moving and perfectly logical ending.

I also dont see why the ending battlefield is being attacked. Of course all the soldiers would put down their weapons. This wasnt jus t any samarui but instead a man respcted by the countries people. Also there was only Cruise and Takemoto left. I dont think presented much of a threat anymore against an entire army.

i also really dont see the imperalistic settings. Never at any point does this movie say that Cruise is better than the samuari or that the samauir need him. He simply got forced into a situation and he reacted to it. If this was an imperialistic movie wouldnt he be condescending to the samauri or be on the governments side. Why dont we just call Dances With Wolves imperiaistic or racist.


You want to see an imperialistic film. Go watch Gunga Din where Ghandi is given awful treatment and is portrayed a power-hungry Mongrol and the natives are protrayed as child-like.

In an imperialistic film the bad guys who would be the ones rising against the government, here samaurai, would be protrayed as something less than human or simply not as good as the surrounding givernment owned country-side. If we go by that defintion then the idea that this is an imperialistic film falls apart. Samaurai are protrayed as nobale and brave something that Cruise RECONIZES. In the end, it is samaruai who come out on top as far thier bravery goes. An imperalistic film WOULD NOT be protraying the rebels as noble and something to be admired.

Also didnt anyone notice that the romance was never consumated. I thought that was fresh and unpredictable.

Maybe all of this boils down to the fact that Tom Cruise is Tom Cruise and to see him in a smauari setting immediately brings in sepearate and in my opinion illogical issues.

I recently saw Dances With Wolves on TV and noticed how unbelievably boring it was. Bravo Last Samuari

But thats just my opnion

[Freeway]

Originally posted by chinton
You know Im not going to name named but I getting sick and tired of people telling me this intellectually lazy or Im intellectualy lazy for liking this film. I also like complex arty films but I also thought this for a beautful film too. And unlike a lot of people I thought it was powerful and moving. Excuse me if I grovel with the lower masses. If you dont like it fine. But dont put down other people as intellectually vacous becuase they liked it

The Last Samurai was an unbelievable film, that was, as you said, moving and certainly more powerful than any other film this year, even though some like Mystic River come close. Chinton, you, all the others on this board who liked TLS, and I should band together and champion what was a wonderful film. Heck, JoBlo could be included because he most certainly loved TLS as well.

[chinton]

Thanks I appreciate your comments. Still I would hate to be the cause of a fistfight. I just mean if some one doesnt like the film then fine. Im just saying lets not get into personal insults. I for one am not intellectualy lazy for liking the movie. This goes for everybody else who loved Samuari like you Freeway.

[Maximus721]

When comparing it to the epic films of recent years like Gladiator and Braveheart, The Last Samurai is crap! However, with how crappy the film year has been lately, I was entertained enough by this film to barely recommend it. I'll break it down by pros and cons:

Pros:
Cinematography
Ken Watanabe
A couple of touching scenes between Cruise and the kids/Watanabe
The final fight scene

Cons:
Tom Cruise,although he gives it his all, is totally miscast
The plot is a little hard to believe
The score sucks
Similar scenes done better in other movies

Overall, I'd rate it a generous 7/10.

[sleekproductions]

Bump... let's here more thoughts... I viewed this film, and need to digest on it. It was definately a very, very good film, probably even great... full review to come...

[Lynn Minmei]

Now, now, Sleek...Let's not get ahead of ourselves. RotK is only days ahead of us.

[Weapon X]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
The Last Samurai is not a bad film. But it is an evil one.

I do not like political correctness or revisionist history. If a film was made during an era where people had a behavior pattern that I now find abhorrent, I don't throw out the artistic effort with the emotional bathwater. I don’t believe in throwing out westerns because they were insensitive to the American Indians or hiding racially insensitive movies of the Pre-Civil rights years.

Movies like Bamboozled or Irreversible or House of Sand & Fog or Romance or Errol Morris’ doc Mr. Death, or Raw Deal: A Question of Consent or Fight Club and others challenge one to explore the issues that are raised in very profound ways, however uncomfortable the ride.

But what does drive me to distraction is quality work that makes an audience feel like it is having one experience while the subtext of the film is saying something else. That is my problem with The Last Samurai. It’s beautifully shot. It’s well acted. It moves apace. There are some failed efforts, like the completely botched Greek chorus character played by the great Timothy Spall, who is a pale reflection of the same character played by Saul Rubinek in Unforgiven. But that is the flea on the ass of this elephant.

The Last Samurai is a movie that pretends to be anti-imperialist while its internal meaning, telling the story of a white man who comes to be as good or better than those in a culture that is completely new to him, could not be more imperialistic. The road is littered with beautiful shots and good intentions, but in the end, that's the story of this movie.

I’ve found this to be a trademark of Ed Zwick’s work. He is a very talented guy. He builds very interesting, real characters in his films and has a real touch with emerging movie stars. But he always makes the wrong moral choice in the end, often switching sides so late in the game as to leave the audience happy from momentum.

Here, the trouble starts pretty early on.

I’m going to stay spoiler-free for a while. But if you really want to see the film with clear eyes, don’t go any further. Actually, you’ve already gone too far…

The movie, The Last Samurai, does open with our leading samurai, high on a hill, looking deep and profound, as Ken Watanabe often does. But after we get the title card, we go to the real “last samurai” of the film, Tom Cruise. He is a drunken, broken down former soldier who is touring as a side show attraction to sell rifles.

Cruise’s Nathan Algren is soon after purchased by the bad, modern Japanese guys, hired at an excessive price to train a Japanese conscript army in the use of modern (in 1867) weapons. We are not told why the Japanese are so interested in this rude, alcoholic boor, but their need for him is absolute. We also get to meet the official American bad guy of the film, played by the always evil and all too obvious Tony Goldwyn. (Zwick also loaded the dice against the rifle salesman who fires Cruise at the top of the film by hiring William Atherton – best known perhaps as the guy who is worse than Hannibal Lechter – to play that role.)

Once in Japan, we get the set-up of the wimpy Emperor who is a slave to modernism and the samurai, who is honorable for his belief in tradition. The conscripts are under-trained and utterly incompetent. And the action relies on a story turn that could only happen in a screenplay where some evil character has to make a choice so stupid that it launches the rest of the story. He makes another such decision in the third act.

At this point, the movie is already close to being lost. This is the story about the last samurai, right? So what does the personal journey of an angry American have to do with it?

Why doesn’t the filmmaker really explain why this man is so lost? Is it really because he has seen what a soldier sees? If so, why is there honor in the fight… any fight?

Why doesn’t the filmmaker deal with the reality of the real last samurai, Saigo? American Imperialism in Japan was a lot more complex and interesting than this movie has time for or interest in, as was the story of the man who was the last samurai. Zwick goes for the black and white version of the story. Modern bad. Ancient good. Americans are evil, except for the movie star. The Japanese are either evil or suckers, except for our heroic samurai and those who are enlightened by our white movie star.

How do you make a movie like that in 2003?

The real life hero, Saigo, did his best to find an alternative to the demise of his like, the samurai. He was a politician as well as a warrior and a hero. In this movie, Watanabe’s Katsumoto is reduced to a Charlie Chan character with six-pack abs. This is not for lack of effort or skill from Watanabe. But he is stuck with a character that is there to assist Algren’s journey, as though it were as important as the journey of his people.

But here’s what really got me – Zwick and Cruise were on Oprah and I saw them on Oprah After The Show. I don’t really watch Oprah, but I like Oprah After The Show because it usually has a more relaxed feel and they operate more in real time than in TV time. So Zwick explains what the movie is about… “This country tends not to know a lot about other cultures… we tend not to care… and we tend to pay some serious consequences for that not knowing.” He then goes on to say of the film, “It’s about authenticity and accountability… about taking accountability for your life. Owning your life.”

That is not the lesson of the samurai, especially at the time of this story. The samurai were not about the western notion of self. The tragedy of the samurai was that they believed in a higher plane of responsibility. They believed in honor above self. That belief led to their extinction.

In movie language, Zwick's twisted view is all well and good. At the movies, everything is about us. We are the audience. But it is a bastardization of the Japanese culture that I truly believe Zwick honestly meant to be exploring.

That split, between good intentions and reality, is what makes Zwick’s work dangerous. He gets the significance of the situation, but the question he is compelled to ask as a result is “How is this about me?”

Well, it’s not always about you, Ed. And you are infecting a large group of people whose intentions are as well held as your own with this disease of self-involvement. Nathan Algren is the character with whom the audience identifies and his journey of rebirth and re-found passion is lovely. But not toput too fine a point on it… so what? An entire culture has been run over, part of it destroyed and the person I am concerned about is the one white guy in the room who has a dazzling smile?

BLECH!

I’ll give you one innocuous example. At one point, Algren picks up a practice sword with the innocent intent of playing with some kids. But he is a captive of the samurai. And the second or third in command tells him to put the “sword” down. Instead of doing the right thing and honoring his captor, who is, incidentally, treating him wonderfully, he challenges the man. When the “sword” is knocked out of his hand, he picks it up again. And again. And by the end, we are supposed to feel that the second in command was abusive and Algren made a brave stand. But he didn’t. He was a punk. And he deserved to get his butt kicked/swatted. He’s not a Cool Hand Luke anti-hero hero. He is a straight-forward hero, overcoming his haunted past. His failure to communicate is with men that he – and the audience - will come to honor. But the film must degrade the man who was right in order to make the hero heroic. That ain’t right.

I was going to do a spoiler section, but there is no point. Every major problem I have with the film goes to the same issues of subtext. The film is false. And it is so well made that it will seduce most viewers into sticking with Algren’s story and not thinking past it. But many will be less pleased with the film and never even realize that these issues are what is so disturbing. And some people just hate Tom Cruise. I do not. I think he can act. I am happy to have him as a movie star. And I believe that his intentions were good here too.

I just wish I gave a damn. I was too busy rooting for the real good guys.

- David Poland

Poland makes some good points, and obviously knows what he's talking about, but to someone who loved the movie (that being me, of course), and doesn't care about total history accuracy (I'm gonna get jumped on that one, I know it), a lot of this sounds like nitpicky BS. Take his arguments about Saigo, "the real last samurai". Saigo was not in the movie and therefore had no place in his review of it. Harry Knowles does this all the time; judging a movie for what he wanted to see rather than what he did see. Yes, there are plenty of times in movies when I wish something different had happened at a certain point, but I don't agonize over it. And to say Algren is the only character the audience is meant to find endearing is just plain wrong.

That, and his opening statement has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard made about a movie. "The Last Samurai is not a bad film. But it is an evil one." What the hell kind of critique is that!?

[The Delfonics]

Originally posted by chinton
You know Im not going to name named but I getting sick and tired of people telling me this intellectually lazy or Im intellectualy lazy for liking this film. I also like complex arty films but I also thought this for a beautful film too. And unlike a lot of people I thought it was powerful and moving. Excuse me if I grovel with the lower masses. If you dont like it fine. But dont put down other people as intellectually vacous becuase they liked it

Very true. No matter what film you are watching. Wether its Weekend at Bernies or The Godfather, there could be 1 or 2 small things that you like. Say you heard your favorite song in a bad movie and then liked it. People try to find specific reasons why people like or dislike movie like you said Chint, its kinda annoying

[Shockwave]

That, and his opening statement has to be one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard made about a movie. "The Last Samurai is not a bad film. But it is an evil one." What the hell kind of critique is that!?

Thats what lost me as well. After such a vapid opening statment it was hard for me to take anything he said seriously.

[Slim]

Originally posted by The Delfonics
People try to find specific reasons why people like or dislike movie like you said Chint, its kinda annoying

This is annoying? How? Should there not be any specific reasons?

:confused:

[The Delfonics]

Originally posted by Slim
This is annoying? How? Should there not be any specific reasons?

:confused:


Im just saying its annoying constantly seeing people trying to label the reasons for other people not liking it. Why say the person must be unintelligent for liking a certain movie when they could be very intelligent and liked the movie for a small personal reason. This type of insult/observation just seems to cause conflict.

[Annie Hall]

Originally posted by The Delfonics
Im just saying its annoying constantly seeing people trying to label the reasons for other people not liking it. Why say the person must be unintelligent for liking a certain movie when they could be very intelligent and liked the movie for a small personal reason. This type of insult/observation just seems to cause conflict.

I agree, and oftentimes, the reviewer really doesn't intend offense upon people who did enjoy it. Just unfortunate phrasing. I do, however, find it the slightest bit irksome when people say you have to be stupid or shallow or (I shudder to say it, being the weirdo I am)..."mainstream". There are two sides to everything...I can understand why some people don't like The Last Samurai and they, in turn, should accept that there are reasons why I do.

[moviemuffin]

Unfortunately, when a film plays to this particular appeal, it's impossible to be honest about it without being honest about why it both works and doesn't.

It works because there are those who ask very little of art. We can tapdance around, but that's the truth. The people who like it do so because they resist the urge (or do not have the urge) to question intellectually.

That is not to say that it can't be enjoyed. It's not even to say it shouldn't be. But by saying you enjoy it, one acknowledges a willingness to overlook its flaws, and in so doing, accepts categorization.

Which is why I think the phrase "this is not a bad film, but it is evil" (paraphrasing) is accurate. Racism and cultural appropriation, the blatant exploitation of an entire race for profit or prurient enjoyment... those qualify as evil. Quite often things that are evil are pleasant.

I think the problem is that people who dislike this movie see it for something very ugly and even evil, while those who like it don't, but feel attacked by the premise that it might BE ugly and evil. Liking it doesn't change its nature.

It took me a very long time, when I was younger, to grasp that distinction. I could never understand why my father forbid us to watch old westerns. I used to sneak off to my friends' houses and watch them anyway. When I was old enough to go to Keetooah fair and really understand the culture of my dad and his family I was ashamed to have enjoyed the stereotypical (and racist, and exploitive, and evil) images of Hollywood Indians. Similarly, Dances with Wolves was a movie a lot of people enjoyed. It won awards. But for those who understood its harmfulness, it was not just a bad movie. It was a dangerous movie.

It would be nice if discussions about art really did boil down to "everyone has their own opinion." If that were true, however, there would be no point in having a discussion. I can't learn anything from my peers if I simply disregard every argument, point, or characterization as "just opinion."

I have, just for the record, changed my mind about movies, books, all kinds of art because I learned something from a person who disagreed with me. I completely changed a review, in fact, only a year ago after listening to some people and seeing the film a second time.

If those who really love or like Last Samurai can teach me something, I will gladly learn. Those who hate or dislike it have. Dismissing arguments that make me uncomfortable won't teach me a thing, nor will it elevate the discussion of art to a meaningful place.

It's not all rose petals and sunshine, kids, but we become better people when we listen and learn.

[chinton]

Ok I dont usually get this angry but here flies a rant




You know you are perfectly open to have your opinions on this film.


You dont like this film. Fine


You agree with the statement that this film is evil. Fine.


But do not patrionize me or anyone else who like this film. I am not intellectually lazy and I can question intellectually. I am not overlooking it flaws as I see it has few flaws. You see it has flaws. That is your OPINION.

I find this film to be noble and brave. That is an OPINION.


Other people find this film to be racist, evil, and imperialistic. That is an OPINION.


The way your post reads it souds like you have some great truth that us little people either dont get or refuse to get it.

I get it and I dont agree

Im sure your not trying to be rude moviemuffin but please remember this is a board with many opinions and lets not start putting people down becuase they like a film.

[Shockwave]

It won awards. But for those who understood its harmfulness, it was not just a bad movie. It was a dangerous movie.

I still dont get how Dances with Wolves and Last Samuri can be labeld as harmful, dangerous and even Evil. Seems more then a little far fetched to me.


Quite often things that are evil are pleasant.

Yeah, but not those 2 movies. They were made to show a respect and love for the culture they were presenting, not to make evil stereotypes.

Seems the original reviewer who stated that it was evil was looking for a pedastol to put himself on. It didnt work. Whether u liked the movie or not is your opinion, but to call it evil is beyond all understanding.

[MadsenOMC]

Why would the reviewer be looking to place himself on a pedastal? What purpose would that serve? It certainly is not "beyond all understanding" to call the movie evil. For some, the imperialism is plain as day. And that could be considered evil. Also, the movie is not a celebration of Japanese culture. How much do you truly learn about Japanese culture in the movie? If it is a celebration of Japanese culture, why does it tell the story of a foreigner? Of his salvation or redemption or whatever you want to call it. Sure, the movie may not get made without Cruise; he's the star so it has to tell his story. But because of that, the movie focuses on him, not the Japanese people or culture. They are a backdrop at most. It is totally logical to have problems with this. This is not a history lesson. This is not a celebration of a culture. This is Hollywood enertainment.

[Shockwave]

If it is a celebration of Japanese culture, why does it tell the story of a foreigner

Because its his story. I never said it was a celebration of Japanese culture. I said its trying to show respect for its source material. That being the Samuri.

And it worked to great affect. I had mucho respect for them at the end of the movie.



Why would the reviewer be looking to place himself on a pedastal? What purpose would that serve?

To draw attention to himself and his review. its working spledidly.





It certainly is not "beyond all understanding" to call the movie evil.

I think it is. Hes not talking about the characters in the movie being evil but the movie itself. As u said, its Hollywood entertainment(as ALL movies are, there are no exceptions!) and has no secret agenda other then to make a well crafted movie.
Its not trying to take over the world with sublimenal messages and its not trying to corrupt our youth.

[MadsenOMC]

Denigrating a people and a culture is evil. Imperialism is evil. And both are present in this movie. "The Last Samurai is a movie that pretends to be anti-imperialist while its internal meaning, telling the story of a white man who comes to be as good or better than those in a culture that is completely new to him, could not be more imperialistic." Exactly.

[Freeway]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Denigrating a people and a culture is evil. Imperialism is evil. And both are present in this movie. "The Last Samurai is a movie that pretends to be anti-imperialist while its internal meaning, telling the story of a white man who comes to be as good or better than those in a culture that is completely new to him, could not be more imperialistic." Exactly.

Statements like that show a lack of knowledge. People that proclaim movies to be evil are clearly off their rocker. Movies are made to entertain, especially big Hollywood films such as TLS and Dances with Wolves. These films in particular try to move the viewer and make them feel emotions. They aren't hateful towards their respective topics (Indians, Japanese) they actually honor them by informing people that may not know anything about their culture or history before seeing the movie. That's what TLS did for me, because I knew very little about Japanese culture from that time period and TLS gave me a little more knowledge in one hell of an entertaining package. If you truly believe that a film such as this can be truly hateful, you'd be better off going and hiding in a hole because then you might as well be saying that every film is hateful because many films could be interpreted as such.

[MadsenOMC]

Freeway, you always have to go with the insults. What does that say about you? I don't need a lesson in knowledge. I am very educated and well-read. Tell me, what did you learn about Japanese culture? How did it enlighten you? And try to keep it about the movie, buddy. That is what we are talking about here. The movie.

[Freeway]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Freeway, you always have to go with the insults. What does that say about you? I don't need a lesson in knowledge. I am very educated and well-read. Tell me, what did you learn about Japanese culture? How did it enlighten you? And try to keep it about the movie, buddy. That is what we are talking about here. The movie.

I really enjoyed TLS, since when is there a rule against liking a movie that you didn't happen to like yourself? It seems like you hate most everything.

[Shockwave]

I dont think i will ever unstand people who think movies like this are evil.

Not liking the movie is one thing, but calling it evil just shows a lack of understanding in my opinion. In no way was this movie EVER hateful.



Like Freeway said, i gained a newfound respect for the Samuri, and got to see a truly entertaining movie as the same time! The character of Algren got a chance at personal redemption by seeing life in a new way thanks to the samuri. He was never better. I would say he was as good however. He proved that by going with them to battle at the end.

There was no hidden EVIIIILLLL mesage hidden in this movie. I think u may be jumping at shadows here.

[MadsenOMC]

Freeway, what are you talking about? When did I ever say something about rules against liking a movie? And you completely avoided my questions. So you insult me, I respond in a rational way, and you dodge my inquiries. I sense a pattern here. I want to keep this about the movie, and I asked you about it. I'd still like to know your answers. Evil and hateful don't mean the same thing all the time. Evil can mean that it contains a bad message or moral or something along those lines. I assume that is what Poland means when it calls it evil. That it contains imperialism and denigrates the culture, which is not good, but evil. I understand this movie very well. It is not rocket science. Why do people have such a hard time refraining from insults?

[Shockwave]

I assume that is what Poland means when it calls it evil.

I assumed he meant to call it evil because he thought it was evil.:)

[moviemuffin]

In the immortal words of my favorite Math teacher, "show me the work or button it." For the purposes of this post consider "you" to be a universal other in opposition to my arguments, not any specific person.

People who disagree with me, or anyone else, are not intellectually lazy. People who can't defend their arguments are.

So far I have seen a lot of people defend the argument that this film is a piece of shit. I have yet to see a convincing, or even detailed, argument in favor of it.

I like movies that others think are shit, too. In some (rare) cases I know that my fondness for them exists outside my understanding of what good art is. Perhaps a movie I like is so culturally specific, for example, it fails as an independent whole but succeeds on a purely personal level. Happens all the time.

My issue is with people who get all pissy when their arguments don't hold up. Make your point and maybe we will ALL learn something. Don't go all cheap and limp and evasive and blame it on this elusive thing called "opinion."

Yes, we are all entitled to opinions. This is not an OPINION forum. It's a DISCUSSION forum. When we discuss something we share opinions, but that doesn't make every statement worthy of endorsement.

You have an opinion. Defend it rather than pointing at me and calling me mean for pointing out that it's a weak one.

Incidentally, I can't possibly become emotionally wounded or intellectually outraged over a discussion about a movie, no matter how harmful I think it is. I would not call the movie evil, but I would call it harmful. I don't use the word evil in association with art. I would make the argument that embracing the stereotypes and exploitive ideology of the film could lead to acts of evil. That's a different thing.

I meant it when I said I welcomed discussion that led to learning. I always do. But complaining about the stance of another never accomplishes anything.

If you think it's a great film make a convincing argument for it. Calling me a snob or repeating the word opinion doesn't defend Last Samurai as a good film. Quite the contrary.

People disagree with me about film quite often. I enjoy those discussions, which is why I am here. Certainly I can name at least one person I like and respect who enjoyed this film. (Two, in fact, my best friend Maria and Jo, who I don't know personally, and with whom I don't always agree, but always respect.) Jo posted his review. I posted mine. Maria and I had a long, heated, passionate discussion about it at Starbucks the other night. There was no winner. I still think she is wrong. I think her arguments were intellectually weak and vapid and empty. She's one of the smartest people I know.

Which is why we didn't have a fight. We had a discussion and disagreed, and left the cafe laughing. She's still smart as hell, but her OPINIONS on this one are, in my OPINION intellectually shitty. She knows I think that. She probably thinks something similar about me.

The difference between my discussion/disagreement with Maria and the direction this thread is taking is that she made salient points and so did I; both of us understood that the topic was the film, not either of us; and both of us can have an adult conversation without throwing a fit if we can't "win."

I hate using this very tired phrase, but let's keep to the topic, which is the film and criticism of it. When one discusses an opinion one does, by virtue of the nature of argument itself, attack the opposing opinion as weak or flawed. That's how opinions are supposed to be formed. Having one doesn't end the discussion, it opens it.

[idealdiscountdude]

:confused:

Damn guys, I was going through the thread trying to see what everybody thought about The Last Samurai as I was thinking about seeing it this weekend and what do I get?

A bunch of posts that are simply arguments back and forth .....taking up way too much space and really pissing people like me off who don't want to have to go through dozens of bickering messages on the third page trying to find some reviews, and there may have been one on that page.

C'mon guys, agree to disagree. Can't y'all just PM each other and fight this battle out ????

[MadsenOMC]

Amen moviemuffin. Very well-said.

[chinton]

thats it Im just stepping out of this argument as Ive never felt more insulted in my time at joblo I find my points to be well-argued and valid but I guess I just dont live up to other people's standards.


Lets get back to the movie now. I think we may have veered a little off topic

[Gone in 60sec]

Originally posted byidealdiscountdude
:confused:

Damn guys, I was going through the thread trying to see what everybody thought about The Last Samurai as I was thinking about seeing it this weekend and what do I get?

A bunch of posts that are simply arguments back and forth .....taking up way too much space and really pissing people like me off who don't want to have to go through dozens of bickering messages on the second page trying to find some reviews, and there may have been one on that page.

C'mon guys, agree to disagree. Can't y'all just PM each other and fight this battle out ????

well said idealdiscountdude...... my point exactly and u should see it as i stated in this thread great movie best of 2003 so far

[Shockwave]

Nor does the honor and respect of a people like these were. Americans like their stories simple. They like their heroes white. The mainstream will embrace this film as a great epic because they want simple, easily understood, intellectually vapid entertainment. -Moviemuffin

I dont like my stories simple nor my heros white(not alll the time)but i did like this. It was deep, thought provoking and extremely entertaining.

[idealdiscountdude]

Originally posted by Gone in 60sec
well said idealdiscountdude...... my point exactly and u should see it as i stated in this thread great movie best of 2003 so far

Thx Gone in 60.......I saw your review too! I really hope to see it this coming weekend.

[chinton]

Defintely see it. Like I said in my review I was honeslty surprised at the power the film had. I was genuinely surprised when the end moved mt to tears.

[blankpage]

http://imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0325710/LS-3704.jpg


THE LAST SAMURAI (8/10)

Samurai-- to serve


Being a hardcore Samurai film fan, I was no doubt looking forward to this film. And although I didn't expect it to live up to such films as 'Seven Samurai' and 'Yojimbo', I was still expecting an excellent, well-made film. Samurai or no Samurai. Walking into this film, I was all hyped up. As the first 25 minutes rolled acorss, I was beginning to be terribly disappointed. While some of the scenes were useful to the film, some of it seemed more of a waste. What also got me was how quick we got into our action. While we do get an idea of the main character in the opening minutes, the film doesn't give much time to build on what we've seen. This film is more about re-shaping yourself. We don't want to know about our past, but look forward to the future, and see what great things we have ahead. That's the kind of vibe I was getting. But after the hazy 25 minutes, I was getting more and more into the film. It certainly built on character, and on story. While we don't learn much about the Samurai culture a whole lot, we get a glimpse of what they are trying to do. What was nice is that the samurai camp was not the usual, eat your worms and go, P.O.W. camp. It was more like a place that is their to re-build you as a person and a warrior- the main message of the film. So, did the camp serve as a metaphore? Possibly. What I guess I'm trying to say is: Don't expect a big sizer battle-o-rama kinda movie. It's more of a movie of spiritual sense (whether it's correct or not). A message is trying to be passed. If you get it, I think it's easier to enjoy the movie.


Anyway. After the end of 'The Last Samurai', I kinda needed to catch my breath. When all is said and done, it feels like you've seen this big bold E-P-I-C-, which is what if fact you've seen. Edward Zwick doesn't skip on the action sequences. He provides some pretty neat ones throughout the film, but saves his best work for last. Watching this, memories of 'Seven Samurai' were brought back to me. It's so grand and big, you need a paper bag to breathe. At times, Zwick uses everyone's slow motion. A trick in which I'm not too fond of. And I didn't quite care for it here. But, folks, if the first 1 50 minutes disappoint you, then you'd better stay. The last 30 minutes is what really did it for me. That was the part that really did it for me...the part where I was blown away, I just lifted into the couple behind me. You watch it and you go: ......WoW. The man below me was really getting into it, too. There was also one sequence where he get a hint of old Kurosawa spaghetti western style. Oh, how I was yearning for that. It put the biggest smile on my face. If you know anything of what I'm talking about, you'll know the sequence. Whilst I was caught up in all the moving shtuff, it was nice to see that thrown in.


I guess I have another complaint about the film. I was getting caught up in all the emotions, drama, etc, but for some reason, I think they overplayed it. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for that, but when it's overplayed... no no. It's hard to concentrate when you're being played for a fool. I'm not saying the filmmakers thought the audiences were foolish enought to be manipulated, but it got to the point where it seemed so. At times, the film had the smell of 'Hollywood' on it. Just out there to please critics to get an Oscar. Not all the time, of course, but there were moments. This isn't a complaint, but an observation. I was , at times, comparing this to the old Samurai movies I know and love. Whilst comparing, it seemed as though that this one didn't follow in the 'tradition'. Which isn't a bad thing - I was more expecting it-but just something I noticed.


Great acting all around. Tom Cruise played me like a fiddle and gave the best performance of his life. Looking back to all of his other films, I had never seen the same stride and commitment that he had in 'Last Samurai'. The guy moved me. I had mucho respect for the guy before hand, but I have mucho mucho respect for the dude now. He was flawless throughout the film. He deserves all the respect and positive reviews in the world. I don't care what people think. Tom Cruise is a class act, and a good actor to boot, showing it off here. Ken Wanatabe ....WOOOW. Watching this guy, I couldn't believe how easy he made his job look. He reminded me of the great 'Toshiro Mifune' (my 3rd favourite actor of all time). Could be the best Japanese actor since Toshiro? I think so. If this man doesn't get an Oscar, I'll publically announce in an essay my hate towards the Oscars (yet again).


'The Last Samurai' is indeed an E-P-I-C- of all sorts. It has some stiff competition against ROTK, but I think it could live up to it. While I was slightly disappointed, I'm giving this film the benefit of the doubt. Why? It moved me very much as the film ended. It was such a beautifully shot movie, with a beautiful cast and director. The movie itself is beautiful. I do think my opinion for the film will be in higher regard once I see it again on DVD. 'The Last Samurai' is worth your $10, check it out.

[Lynn Minmei]

I'm so very glad to hear you liked it, Blank.

[usuallysuspected]

I'm considering seeing this one again this weekend, that is rare for an epic for me too, minus LotR of course. But for some reason I just feel like I missed something the first time through.

[JoBlo]

Everyone please remember that opinions are like assholes...everybody's got one. No need to put others down while making your points...even indirectly.

If you liked the film, but others didn't, it doesn't mean that they "didn't get it", it means that they didn't like it.

If you didn't like the film, but others did, it doesn't mean that they are "lazy", it means that they liked it and you didn't.

Offering opinions and debating is what our board is all about, but please remember that you're not here to change people's minds or convince them about how "right" you are...we're all just here to share our thoughts and move on to the next great/shitty film on the list... :)

[Lynn Minmei]

Originally posted by JoBlo
Everyone please remember that opinions are like assholes...everybody's got one.

Genius. JoBlo, you are the best!

[moviemuffin]

Originally posted by usuallysuspected
I'm considering seeing this one again this weekend, that is rare for an epic for me too, minus LotR of course. But for some reason I just feel like I missed something the first time through.

So am I. In fact, I have some advance tickets for tomorrow and may slip this in afterward.

If I hate something to the point of rabidness (and this qualifies) I will often see it a second time just to check my responses. Sometimes (not often) I find my second viewing softens my displeasure.

It usually strengthens it, but once (only once) I found myself completely changing my mind. I hated The Ring on first view, but actually liked it the second time through and became a fan on the third viewing. (Still like the original, Ringu, better.)

[LexLuthor]

this movie was okay...
not like oh my god run out right now and see it...
why i think this...
tom cruise....ugh....
but it did make me take my sword back into my hands...
and had me thinking of importance and purpose in life....
more in the plus column... best american samurai pic, since
teenage mutant ninja turtles III :cool:

[daddiefatsacks]

What a beautiful movie.

This is a phrase that has been in my mind since i saw this flick saturday night - It's been stuck in my head. The Last samurai will certainly be in my top 10 this year, probably top 5 - but i will definately say that this movie definately sums up the term EPIC.

From the acting, to the directing, cinematography, score, editing jeez even the BEST BOY GRIP...nah but for real, everything in this movie just click and made me feel great. Kudos to Tom Cruise for putting forth a great effort in this movie, not only on the screen but also behind the scenes, not taking any up front cash for the movie and training like a mofo - nice job Cruise. But im sorry to say that you were out'dueled' by your co-star Ken Watanabe who stole the show. MAN!! What a stellar performance from this Vet Japanese actor, lovely performance, Oscar Nomination for best supporting actor i hope so.

Anyways, I hope this movie gets a lot of praise at the end of the year as it certainly deserves it!!! IF Gladiator can be so successful how can this not be?

9/10

[darkface]

Saw it again last night with my bud. Hell, he even cried... everyone did. My 9/10 still stands. An amazing movie on all fronts. With the year coming to an end, my list is starting to form for the year, can't wait to see my list, usually i hate making them, but everyone should do a yearly one at least.

[moviemuffin]

Saw 2/3 of it again today just to be fair... and walked out.

But, on the up-side, the manager knows me and let me sneak in to the last half of Bad Santa to cheer me up. :D

[eru]

I gave the film a 9/10.

I won't give a review but I will say I rate movies on how much I ENJOYED them. Enjoyment should be the main basis on deciding what is and what isn't a good movie -- not historical accuracy, bad acting, etc.

This isn't school.

[Damned Martian]

Originally posted by eru
I won't give a review but I will say I rate movies on how much I ENJOYED them. Enjoyment should be the main basis on deciding what is and what isn't a good movie -- not historical accuracy, bad acting, etc.

This isn't school. I don't understand that. What do these two paragraphs have in common? School-Seeing films like more than entertainment...? No, I don't get it.


Apart from the fact that I deeply disagree, of course.

[moviemuffin]

I think, DM, that the premise is that people who dislike films don't really dislike the, they ENJOY them but take them apart because they are overly-erudite pratts.

While I admit to being and overly-erudite pratt, I take issue with the very notion that I could possibly enjoy something I thought was a piece of shit.

:D

[badberry]

Saw the movie tonight....thought it was awesome. Amazing battle scenes, great acting all round, some good humour thrown in, and an excellent story that kept me interested the whole time, despite the length of the film. My biggest complaint would be that the film dipped into "cheesy Hollywood mode" a few times, but I guess that has to be expected for a big movie like this.

I really have a hard time seeing where people are coming from calling the movie 'evil' or 'imperialist'. I'm sure it's far from historically accurate, but I thought the message of the film was pretty obviously anti-imperialist. Yes, the main character is white. But that's so we have a foil for the samurai society...to show how different a way of life it is. The audience discovers it as the character discovers it, it gives a reason to explain the various traditions of the samurai. It's about the westerner discovering a culture that he had no idea about previously, and he adopts it as his way of life...the "bad guys" are the American gun merchants....we sympathize with the destruction of traditional Japanese culture....where in there is a racist message??

SPOILER



Thought I do take issue with the fact that the white guy is the only one who survives the battle and is the one from whom the Emperor finally learns the lesson....getting back to the Hollywood cheese factor.



END SPOILER


All in all, I give it 9/10 ...only the third one I've given out this year. Highly recommended.

[Damned Martian]

Originally posted by moviemuffin
I think, DM, that the premise is that people who dislike films don't really dislike the, they ENJOY them but take them apart because they are overly-erudite pratts.

While I admit to being and overly-erudite pratt, I take issue with the very notion that I could possibly enjoy something I thought was a piece of shit.

:D Well, what I got from the post is that movies are just made for entertainment, and that the very notion of having some meaning or some message or being actually intelligent in any form is a thought that could only be thought by a kid that is still on school, because it's a childish way to see films.

And that doesn't make sense. In fact, I'd say it's... *youknowwhati'mgoingtosaybutiwon'tbecauseitcouldca usesomepeopletobepissedoffandidon'twanttoenterther e*.

;)

[Moviefan1234]

The Last Samurai - 9.25/10

Once in awhile a film comes along that shows why people like us devote so much time to watching movies. This is a perfect example of quality cinematic effort. The direction, acting, writing, cinematography, and attention to detail just blew my mind. If it weren't for The Lord Of The Rings: The Return Of The King, I'd say this deserves to clean house come award time. With the competition it still will win some awards. Cruise and Watanabe truly deserve Oscar gold. Just give them the damn awards.

[TheGodSon]

I hope this movie hangs in there money wise. I know it will eventually make back it's budget. I just hope it doesn't have gangs of new york syndrome.

[Lil' Lebowski]

I really enjoyed this movie (9/10) and think it will
cover it's budget eventually.
I will agree with Badberry on a couple of things:
There were some token Hollywood dips.....
And Tom surviving the battle!
I know the story needs for him to survive this battle,
but, come on! He's the only white guy on the field!
Surely he's an easy target! If Tom can throw his
sword and hit the only other white guy on the field
in the chest, then surely Tom can get hooked up just as easily.
Aside from that, I really did enjoy this movie.

[TheGodSon]

Bump. (oops. :D )


I'm going to see it a second time today! Woohoo, Can't wait! I love this damn movie.

[Fisting Ackbar]

Beautifully filmed and choreographed, and Ken Wanatabe was terrific, although it didn't offer any real surprises. I predicted a lot that was going to happen, and the "Hollywood ending" sort of left a bad taste in my mouth. Nevertheless, I'd give it an 8/10

[Fisting Ackbar]

double post

[Strider]

The Last Samurai (2003)

Rated R for Strong Violence and Battle Sequences

Director: Edward Zwick

Starring Tom Cruise, Ken Watanabe, Tony Goldwyn, Masato Harada, Timothy Spall, and Billy Connolly.

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/the_last_samurai/_group_photos/ken_watanabe5.jpg

Synopsis: "In Japan, Civil War veteran Captain Nathan Algren (Tom Cruise) is hired to train the Emperor's troops to use Winchester rifles as they prepare to defeat the last of the country's samurais. But Algren's passion and beliefs are swayed when he is captured by the samurai, and learns about their traditions and code of honor".

Edward Zwick, a very underrated and talented director who has made several good films, including the war masterpiece "Glory". After a few years away from the film business, Zwick returns with "The Last Samurai", which is a powerful film with a compelling story about honor, strength, loyalty, redemption, and one's way of living.

"The Last Samurai" is headlined by the biggest movie star in the world, Tom Cruise. Even though Cruise delivers a great, believable, and oscar-worthy performance; he becomes somewhat overshadowed by an excellent supporting performance by Ken Watanabe. This is Watanabe's first English-language role, and its a great one. Not only is Watanabe great in this film, but he's more than deserving of an oscar for the Best Supporting Actor category.

Anyway, getting back to Zwick, this is a director that is fully capable of directing great, thrilling, and emotional action sequences. Watch "Glory" to see what I mean. And he does the exact same thing with "The Last Samurai", but they're even better here. Also, another great thing to say about Zwick, is how much undivided attention he puts into the culture of the Japanese; their fighting styles, traditions, and ways of life. Zwick had the same kind of attention with "Glory", and he shows it here as well.

"The Last Samurai" really felt like a heartfelt tribute by Edward Zwick to the works of Akira Kurosawa, especially "The Seven Samurai". If Zwick really meant the film to act as a tribute, then it is a great one. "The Last Samurai" is an epic action film which reeks of power, beauty, heart, and emotion.

Running Time: 2 hours 24 minutes

Grade: 9/10 or **** 1/2 out of ***** stars

Strider

[Tuukka]

A fucking great movie!

A very strong script, very confident and even visionary directing, awesome cinematography and ubercool music. Acting ranged from good to great, with Tom Cruise giving a solid performance. At first I had trouble not seeing Cruise in the film, but I started believing in his character once the film progressed. Watanabe rocked and has some major screen presence. The girl was supercute, I think I love her.

The action scenes were amazing, brutal and superbly coreographed, especially the final battle. I was on the edge of my seat.

I also appreciated the themes and messages of the film and I think many people in here are seriously misinterpreting some aspects. Cruises character never was a samurai and he didn't have an obligation to follow the bushido. He was half of the old world, half of the modern world. I thought the film made this very obvious. He was also a dork at first, so I thought it was obvious that the film didn't admire him when he was obviously doing the wrong things.

But all in all this was an extremely handsomely made film. I was in awe of many scenes.It's also a witty, funny, touching and thrilling movie. It's a tie for the best film of the year with ROTK and City of God.

Great stuff.

9/10

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
The ending is the worst part of the movie. Do you understand how insulting and just plain ridiculous it is to have Tom Cruise show the Emperor of Japan how to find honor and courage ? To have a Westerner who has only been there for a few months educate the people of Japan? Another case of Hollywood using the white man to teach a native people about their own history. Disgusting. Makes me want to puke.

RE:

I strongly feel that you are misinterpreting the film here.

It wasn't Ahlgren talking to the Emperor, it was Katsumoto. The Emperor didn't know who Ahlgren is as a person, but he DID know Katsumoto very well and he knew what Katsumoto lived and died for. Essentially it was Katsumoto talking to the Emperor behind the grave, through Ahlgren. Ahlgren was saying things he learned from Katsumoto, and the Emperor knew this. This was even visually undelined by the fact that Ahlgren gave Katsumoto's sword to the Emperor.

[Tuukka]

I will also comment on some things on Pollands review:

"The Last Samurai is a movie that pretends to be anti-imperialist while its internal meaning, telling the story of a white man who comes to be as good or better than those in a culture that is completely new to him, could not be more imperialistic. The road is littered with beautiful shots and good intentions, but in the end, that's the story of this movie.

RE:

The film doesn't even compare Ahlgren to the samurai, instead it acknowledges that he is different, and will always be. Like it reads in his sword: "I belong to a warrior who is half of the old world and half of the new world". That was NOT and exact quote, but you get the idea. Katsumoto was part of the old world, Omara was part of the new world. Ahlgren was different from both of them.

"The movie, The Last Samurai, does open with our leading samurai, high on a hill, looking deep and profound, as Ken Watanabe often does. But after we get the title card, we go to the real “last samurai” of the film, Tom Cruise. He is a drunken, broken down former soldier who is touring as a side show attraction to sell rifles.

RE:

Polland has apparently misunderstood the whole film. Ahlgren was not the "last samurai", Katsumoto was. Ahlgren fought with the samurai, but he never got the status of one.

"Cruise’s Nathan Algren is soon after purchased by the bad, modern Japanese guys, hired at an excessive price to train a Japanese conscript army in the use of modern (in 1867) weapons. We are not told why the Japanese are so interested in this rude, alcoholic boor, but their need for him is absolute."

RE:

Ahlgren was approved by their USA connections, in the dinner scene it was made VERY clear that the japanese thought Ahlgren was both rude and alcoholic, but like Omura states, the americans are different. They trust that their allies know how to pick up the right people, because they themselves didn't know.

"We also get to meet the official American bad guy of the film, played by the always evil and all too obvious Tony Goldwyn.

RE:

It should be also noted that Bagley had also honourable tendencies. In the final battle he goes to the frontline to confront Ahlgren even if he could have stayed in the safety. And he did it simply because he respected Ahlgren and wanted to meet him eye to eye. Evil, maybe. But also a ballsy character with his own sense of honor.

(Zwick also loaded the dice against the rifle salesman who fires Cruise at the top of the film by hiring William Atherton – best known perhaps as the guy who is worse than Hannibal Lechter – to play that role.)

RE:

The character was just a business man doing his job. It was Ahlgren who was acting immature.

Once in Japan, we get the set-up of the wimpy Emperor

RE:

Wimpy? The guy was maybe 17 years old and was leading a country torn by civil war. Hailed as God, but fully aware of his own limitations as a human. He was HUMAN, not wimpy.

The conscripts are under-trained and utterly incompetent. And the action relies on a story turn that could only happen in a screenplay where some evil character has to make a choice so stupid that it launches the rest of the story. He makes another such decision in the third act.

RE:

I guess Polland has NEVER read any war history. In practically every war in the history of mankind leaders have made bad tactical decisions. They have overestimated themselves because of their superiority in manpower and technology, which is exactly what happens in the film. Also, in the final battle Omura was also worried that Katsumoto might get away. Like it was stated earlier in the film, his position was based on his ability to destroy the rebelliong. This is why he was eager to attack and didn't want Katsumoto to escape.

At this point, the movie is already close to being lost. This is the story about the last samurai, right? So what does the personal journey of an angry American have to do with it?

RE:

The TITLE of the film is Last Samurai, but the MAIN STORY of the film is about Ahlgren. The TITLE refers to Katsumoto. So why is this film titled as Last Samurai if it tells about Ahlgren. Because he saves his soul thanks to the last samurai, Katsumoto.

Why doesn’t the filmmaker really explain why this man is so lost?

RE:

It is explained.

Is it really because he has seen what a soldier sees?

RE:

Exactly.

If so, why is there honor in the fight… any fight?

RE:

Because you can fight for different reasons. And you can fight by killing either soldiers (Like samurai do), or you can fight by killing innocent civilians (Like Ahlgren had done).

Why doesn’t the filmmaker deal with the reality of the real last samurai, Saigo? American Imperialism in Japan was a lot more complex and interesting than this movie has time for or interest in, as was the story of the man who was the last samurai.

RE:

Because this is not a documentary. It's a FICTIONAL tale. It's not about Saigo, because it's about Ahlgren and Katsumoto.

Zwick goes for the black and white version of the story. Modern bad. Ancient good.

RE:

If this is the case, I wonder why the film makes a point that Ahlgren becomes a full man only when he finds the balance inside him between the modern and ancient, being neither one fully.

Americans are evil, except for the movie star.

RE:

Really? How many americans did we see in the movie and how many of them were evil? In fact only one of the counts as evil (Bagley). The rest are just normal people doing their work.

The Japanese are either evil or suckers,

RE:

Like the (too) young emperor who battles with his responsibilities because he thinks he can't handle them, but does the right thing in the end?

Or the young captain (he is the right hand of Omura in the end) who has to stay on the "wrong" side because it's his responsibility, but who admires and respects the samurai he has to fight and kill?

except for our heroic samurai and those who are enlightened by our white movie star.

RE:

They were enlightened by Katsumoto, not by Ahlgren.

The real life hero, Saigo, did his best to find an alternative to the demise of his like, the samurai. He was a politician as well as a warrior and a hero.

RE:

Remember, it's a fictional tale. There was no character called Saigo.

In this movie, Watanabe’s Katsumoto is reduced to a Charlie Chan character with six-pack abs. This is not for lack of effort or skill from Watanabe. But he is stuck with a character that is there to assist Algren’s journey, as though it were as important as the journey of his people.

RE:

The film is about the journey of Ahlgren. Polland is here writing that he wanted to see another movie which doesn't tell the story of Ahlgren. But this is THIS movie, not some other movie. If I would go to see a movie about Batman and then complain that his servant Alfred was reduced to side character, would that make any sense at all?

So Zwick explains what the movie is about… “This country tends not to know a lot about other cultures… we tend not to care… and we tend to pay some serious consequences for that not knowing.” He then goes on to say of the film, “It’s about authenticity and accountability… about taking accountability for your life. Owning your life.”

That is not the lesson of the samurai, especially at the time of this story. The samurai were not about the western notion of self. The tragedy of the samurai was that they believed in a higher plane of responsibility. They believed in honor above self. That belief led to their extinction.

RE:

Again, the movie is about AHLGREN. It's about what he learns from Katsumoto and how becomes a better person because of it. Half modern, half ancient. That's what reads in his sword. This movie is about the western notion of self, and about what we can learn from the samurai. That doesn't mean that we have to become samurai. Ahlgren didn't.

In movie language, Zwick's twisted view is all well and good. At the movies, everything is about us. We are the audience. But it is a bastardization of the Japanese culture that I truly believe Zwick honestly meant to be exploring.

RE:

The film doesn't bastardize the samurai culture. It explores it and thinks what we can learn from it.

That split, between good intentions and reality, is what makes Zwick’s work dangerous. He gets the significance of the situation, but the question he is compelled to ask as a result is “How is this about me?”

Well, it’s not always about you, Ed. And you are infecting a large group of people whose intentions are as well held as your own with this disease of self-involvement. Nathan Algren is the character with whom the audience identifies and his journey of rebirth and re-found passion is lovely. But not toput too fine a point on it… so what? An entire culture has been run over, part of it destroyed and the person I am concerned about is the one white guy in the room who has a dazzling smile?

RE:

I think this is where we are coming to the root of this anger Polland and many others are feeling.

The thing is, the question in stories is ALWAYS about “How is this about me?”. Always. For Zwick to make a film he has to think how the story touches HIM. When we watch a film we have to be able to think about how it is about US. Ahlgren is our eyes in the film, we learn what he learns. Yes, the samurai culture is destroyed in the movie. That was pretty obvious to anyone who has ever read a history book. But the question is what did we learn when we watched the film?

We are supposed to care about Katsumoto just like we are supposed to care about Ahlgren. The fact that we see the samurai die in front of our eyes pushes the point home. Ahlgren was a not a samurai, he was an outsider like we are as an audience. He didn't die, and neither did we. But maybe we learned something from Katsumoto, the last samurai, like Ahlgren did.

I’ll give you one innocuous example. At one point, Algren picks up a practice sword with the innocent intent of playing with some kids. But he is a captive of the samurai. And the second or third in command tells him to put the “sword” down. Instead of doing the right thing and honoring his captor, who is, incidentally, treating him wonderfully, he challenges the man. When the “sword” is knocked out of his hand, he picks it up again. And again. And by the end, we are supposed to feel that the second in command was abusive and Algren made a brave stand. But he didn’t. He was a punk. And he deserved to get his butt kicked/swatted.

RE:

It seems to me that Polland is misinterpreting the scene. The scene is about the clash of cultures. Both of these two men are good men. They hate each other at first, but they learn to respect each other. Ahlgren is a punk in the beginning of the film, and so he is in this scene. He is a punk, but a ballsy and brave punk. When I wacthed the scene, I admired his boldness, and yet I felt he was being stupid. It's a wonderfully complex scene. .

He’s not a Cool Hand Luke anti-hero hero. He is a straight-forward hero, overcoming his haunted past. His failure to communicate is with men that he – and the audience - will come to honor. But the film must degrade the man who was right in order to make the hero heroic. That ain’t right.

RE:

The film NEVER degraded the japanese man. In fact it never showed anything but great respect for the guy.

I was going to do a spoiler section, but there is no point. Every major problem I have with the film goes to the same issues of subtext. The film is false. And it is so well made that it will seduce most viewers into sticking with Algren’s story and not thinking past it. But many will be less pleased with the film and never even realize that these issues are what is so disturbing.

RE:

The problem seems to be the exact opposite. Polland has watched the film with a bias. He wanted to see some other film than what he saw. He is seriously misinterpreting the content, sometimes he does it unintentionally, sometimes it seems that he is working very hard to paint it with false colors.

The film is not what he claims it to be.

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by moviemuffin
It's insulting to portray this wasp as a guy who gets the rewards of the culture without paying any of the dues. He even states in his narrative that he is not a man who has spiritual beliefs, yet he feels the place is somehow spiritual. Then turns around and achieves the stillness of a true warrior with apparent ease. Sorry, that's bullshit. Absolute spiritual stillness doesn't come unless you pay the dues.

RE:

But he DID pay the dues. He literally rode to his death. He lost his best friend in a battle and almost got killed himself. He was willing to sacrifice his life for a greater cause.

[The Engraved]

This was a very good movie, great in fact. My sister ranks it as one of her best movies ever. She even goes so far as to say that this is Cruise's best performance. I believe Minority Report was his best, but he does a decent job here (I don't ever get fully immersed in his character simply because I always see Cruise - movie actor). We both agree that Ken Watanabe did an outstanding job and he does deserve to be nominated. The last scene of Watanabe had to be one of the most intense, moving scences captured on screen (those eyes!). Although I liked Seabiscuit, I think Last Samurai may have been a better choice. Thank you. :)