An essay on Snuff films

[HannibalGuy]

I dont know if there has been a topic about snuff films before, but I wanted to start this topic. Snuff films are supposed to be an urban legend. A snuff film is a film where the actors are actually killed on screen. The FBI claims that they dont exsist. But, the release of the new video game "Manhunt" has made me do my own little investagation. In "Manhunt" the storyline involves snuff films. Even the booklet that comes with the game is a faux snuff film catalog, even though the website advertised in the book is real. Ok, the oragin of the snuff film dates back to 1975, where 2 people named Michael and Roberta Findlay made a film named "Slaughter" in Argentina. This is the film that was to become "Snuff". Many people claim that the film is unfinnished, but it did have a theatrical run, and althought it is VERY rare, it's not impossible to find. Slaughter was supposed to be based on the Manson Family murders. However, it had very little to do with them. Even before Slaughter was made, there was another urban legened about Manson and a snuff film. Some tabloid reporter claimed he had a video of Charlie murdering a man on a beech. It was later found out that it was a fake tape, and Charles Manson has nothing to do with it. In 1972, producer Allan Shackelton bougth the distribution rights to Slaughter, so he must have known that the film was eiter a phony becuse he bought the rights to the film 3 years prior to the release of the film. Now, Shackeltons production company, Monarch Releasing Corp. had produced only sexploitation films, and had already gotton a bad wrap due to another supposed snuff film named "Lynch 1976". So, Shackelton thought of a great marketing tequnique. Before Slaughter was released he renamed the film "Snuff" and sent ads to newspapers all over the country. Ads that claimed the film featured actual murders on screan. However, Michael Findlay, one of the makers of Slaughter got word of Shackelton's false advertising, and threatend to go public, and he did, exposing Shackelton in an interview. But Shackelton paid him off, and he never heard from Micheal again. So, Shackelton took it upon himself to create more buzz for the film by saying that a group called Citizens for Decency had threatend to boycott the films release. But, little did Shackelton know, there really was a group called Citizens for Decency, and them and along with many other anti-pornography groups protested outside the New York debut of the film. Word of mouth was was got the film so much attention. Snuff s old out for 3 days in a row. All the controvercy finally caught the attention of the police, who told the makers of the film, to carry a disclaimer that no people were actually harmed in the film. But, there was a problem, the when Shackelton bought the rights to the film, it wasn't finnished. The ending, where the leading lady was supposed to be killed was never filmed. So, Shackelton got togeather a group of people and filmed an ending that featured a "murder" of an actress that had absolutly no resemblence to the original actress. After the film's theartical run was over, the controvercy of it being a real snuff film was over. But, Shackelton claimed that an officer in the NYPD said that certin officers were paid to view private screanings of an 8MM film that featured a killing and was filmed in Agrentina. Even the LAPD did and investagion and with very little evidence, they came to the conclution that Snuff was a fake. But, the public still semed to belive that snuff films were an underground buisness that took in millions of dollars. It semed that the snuff film was just a phony, but in 1991 at a Hollywood party, someone put in a copy of "Guinea Pig 2: The Flowers of Flesh and Blood", an instalment in the notorius Japanese "Guinea Pig" series. Actor Chrlie Sheen was at the party, and was convinced that he had seen an actual snuff film. Sheen contacted the MPAA, and said he would do anything to stop the distrubution of the film. The FBI di investagate, and it was later found out that the Guinea Pig series were not autentic snuff. Still, the event made headlines, and people still believed that there were real snuff films out there. Even major motion pictures such as 8MM embrace the subject. So, do you believe that there are real snuff films out there?

[TheDeadWalk]

Yes it is possible, but no I don't think that there is an actual snuff ring going around anywhere in the United States.

Another key thing to the definition of "Snuff" is that there actually has to be an intent to "sell" the product that features the intentionally murdered victim(s).

The reason that the FBI and other investigative factions believe that there is no such snuff ring is that it's been THIRTY years since the rumors started, and not one single iota of a crack or clue into any such ring. The FBI has even stated that for a secret to be kept THAT well hidden is an impossible fluke.

Is there videotapes of murders out there? Yeah.

Are they being sold in an underground market? I don't believe so. Most were probably filmed via accident, or personal pleasure for a serial killer, IE: Some of the scenes in "Henry: Portrait of a serial killer".

Think about the size of the balls these people would have to rake in such a business, and find it profitable. The first person you thought would dig it and wouldn't, you would have to deal with them going to the police. Too "riskay" for entertainment, especially when it's probably much more profitable for them to deal drugs.

And keep in mind that we also live in a world where Pete Townsend of the Who gets busted for looking at kiddy porn.

[Jack_Cheze]

The producer of Screw magazine has had an open offer of $1 million dollars to ANYONE who can present him with an actual commercial snuff film. No one has ever tried to collect the money.


PS. Pete Townshend was let go, it seems he was stupidly trying to save the world not get off

[Corpse Candle]

It isn't possible for there to be commercial snuff that you can pick up at a shop no matter where you are in the world.
However I don't think anyone can give a blanket answer and say there isn't any snuff rings in the U.S or anywhere else in the world because I think there is.
The U.S I would say deffently yes and maybe in the U.K too...the world is to vast and different for snuff not to be happeniong somewhere.
However you are going to have to be involved in some sick things to get anywhere near those particular circles of scoitey.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Corpse Candle
It isn't possible for there to be commercial snuff that you can pick up at a shop no matter where you are in the world.
However I don't think anyone can give a blanket answer and say there isn't any snuff rings in the U.S or anywhere else in the world because I think there is.
The U.S I would say deffently yes and maybe in the U.K too...the world is to vast and different for snuff not to be happeniong somewhere.
However you are going to have to be involved in some sick things to get anywhere near those particular circles of scoitey.

True, but how could such a ring keep such a well hidden secret so that there hasn't been any leads or clues to any such rings in history?

[Corpse Candle]

I think that if I did some research I would dig up a couple of peices on real snuff (not commercial) I am not saying it would be in abundance but it is a reality that people do it.
The main reason why am sure it exsists in the darker regions of the unground is because all it takes a a sicko,a camera and unfourtunatly a victim.
There are plenty of those around whereever you live.
I may do some research but at the moment I don't really want to investigate the subject I hope you don't see that as a cop out.

Also the police keep a lot of stuff quite it means inflaming situations or causing a stir with the public.So alas it is a case of if you dig you will find dirt.

[pyscho dude]

I believe that there are snuff films out there somewhere but I doubt you could get a hold of them. They'd be more for private viewing by the people who made it then the general audience.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by pyscho dude
I believe that there are snuff films out there somewhere but I doubt you could get a hold of them. They'd be more for private viewing by the people who made it then the general audience.

Exactly. It's not that I disagree with either you or Corpse Candle on theories, but on the term "Snuff" in general and why they say "Snuff" doesn't exist. The fact of it being commercialized for profit is what makes it actual "Snuff".

[Invincible]

http://www.csicop.org/si/9905/snuff.html

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by HannibalGuy
I dont know if there has been a topic about snuff films before, but I wanted to start this topic. Snuff films are supposed to be an urban legend. A snuff film is a film where the actors are actually killed on screen. The FBI claims that they dont exsist. But, the release of the new video game "Manhunt" has made me do my own little investagation. In "Manhunt" the storyline involves snuff films. Even the booklet that comes with the game is a faux snuff film catalog, even though the website advertised in the book is real. Ok, the oragin of the snuff film dates back to 1975, where 2 people named Michael and Roberta Findlay made a film named "Slaughter" in Argentina. This is the film that was to become "Snuff". Many people claim that the film is unfinnished, but it did have a theatrical run, and althought it is VERY rare, it's not impossible to find. Slaughter was supposed to be based on the Manson Family murders. However, it had very little to do with them. Even before Slaughter was made, there was another urban legened about Manson and a snuff film. Some tabloid reporter claimed he had a video of Charlie murdering a man on a beech. It was later found out that it was a fake tape, and Charles Manson has nothing to do with it. In 1972, producer Allan Shackelton bougth the distribution rights to Slaughter, so he must have known that the film was eiter a phony becuse he bought the rights to the film 3 years prior to the release of the film. Now, Shackeltons production company, Monarch Releasing Corp. had produced only sexploitation films, and had already gotton a bad wrap due to another supposed snuff film named "Lynch 1976". So, Shackelton thought of a great marketing tequnique. Before Slaughter was released he renamed the film "Snuff" and sent ads to newspapers all over the country. Ads that claimed the film featured actual murders on screan. However, Michael Findlay, one of the makers of Slaughter got word of Shackelton's false advertising, and threatend to go public, and he did, exposing Shackelton in an interview. But Shackelton paid him off, and he never heard from Micheal again. So, Shackelton took it upon himself to create more buzz for the film by saying that a group called Citizens for Decency had threatend to boycott the films release. But, little did Shackelton know, there really was a group called Citizens for Decency, and them and along with many other anti-pornography groups protested outside the New York debut of the film. Word of mouth was was got the film so much attention. Snuff s old out for 3 days in a row. All the controvercy finally caught the attention of the police, who told the makers of the film, to carry a disclaimer that no people were actually harmed in the film. But, there was a problem, the when Shackelton bought the rights to the film, it wasn't finnished. The ending, where the leading lady was supposed to be killed was never filmed. So, Shackelton got togeather a group of people and filmed an ending that featured a "murder" of an actress that had absolutly no resemblence to the original actress. After the film's theartical run was over, the controvercy of it being a real snuff film was over. But, Shackelton claimed that an officer in the NYPD said that certin officers were paid to view private screanings of an 8MM film that featured a killing and was filmed in Agrentina. Even the LAPD did and investagion and with very little evidence, they came to the conclution that Snuff was a fake. But, the public still semed to belive that snuff films were an underground buisness that took in millions of dollars. It semed that the snuff film was just a phony, but in 1991 at a Hollywood party, someone put in a copy of "Guinea Pig 2: The Flowers of Flesh and Blood", an instalment in the notorius Japanese "Guinea Pig" series. Actor Chrlie Sheen was at the party, and was convinced that he had seen an actual snuff film. Sheen contacted the MPAA, and said he would do anything to stop the distrubution of the film. The FBI di investagate, and it was later found out that the Guinea Pig series were not autentic snuff. Still, the event made headlines, and people still believed that there were real snuff films out there. Even major motion pictures such as 8MM embrace the subject. So, do you believe that there are real snuff films out there?

Oh my God, dude.

Chant with me:

Paragraphs are your friend.

But you are correct. Authentic snuff is not known to exist.

[HannibalGuy]

Sorry for not using paragraphs, I was kind of in a hurry when I wrote that. Oh, the link that Invincible posted was where I got some of my info.

[BloodFrenzy]

Well put TheDeadWalk.

I want to comment on the aformentioned game Manhunt. I got this for xmas and have to say first, I'm having a great time playing it. Second, I do have to admit that it is yet another sad reminder of how society is going to shit. The whole point (mostly) is trying to violently kill gang members in a very realistic (for a video game) and sadistic manner. I guess I am a big hipocrite because I love it while at the same time think it is a very unnecassary excuse to showcase violence. Am I rambling? Beer's kickin in...
Guess it just bothers me that while this game is obviously meant for adults, it will be played by the kids, and I find that very sad.

So, any fans of this type of game (kinda a mix between Splinter Cell, Tenchu and lets say... Henry, PoaSK!), GO PLAY NOW!

Where's my machette...

[HannibalGuy]

I love Manhunt also. I just mentioned it in the post becuse the point of the game is to kill people so that Starkweather can film it and sell it.

[BloodFrenzy]

Yeah, I didn't mean to get off topic, but the game does have revelence to your post.

[Corpse Candle]

Originally posted by BloodFrenzy
Well put TheDeadWalk.

I want to comment on the aformentioned game Manhunt. I got this for xmas and have to say first, I'm having a great time playing it. Second, I do have to admit that it is yet another sad reminder of how society is going to shit. The whole point (mostly) is trying to violently kill gang members in a very realistic (for a video game) and sadistic manner. I guess I am a big hipocrite because I love it while at the same time think it is a very unnecassary excuse to showcase violence. Am I rambling? Beer's kickin in...
Guess it just bothers me that while this game is obviously meant for adults, it will be played by the kids, and I find that very sad.

So, any fans of this type of game (kinda a mix between Splinter Cell, Tenchu and lets say... Henry, PoaSK!), GO PLAY NOW!

Where's my machette...


I understand what you are saying Bloodfrenzy the older I get the more I apprchiate the fact of morals.
However I too will probably play this game a like love playing it although I feel less and less sure about kids playing stuff like this.

It frightens me to because what do games like these say about us as people...that we enjoy killing?

I think as long as your not over stepping personal boundries you should be okay but you do have to take a step back every now again to check out just what the media is showing us.

I personaly wouldn't watch the Guinea Pig films they are NOT snuff but at least with the first couple of films they do seem to wish to simulate what snuff would be like.

I don't feel comfertable with films like these so I won't watch them and I am a pretty easy going guy when it comes to horror films.

[Juice]

There is a pretty big underground snuff industry in Asia.

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by HannibalGuy
Actor Chrlie Sheen was at the party, and was convinced that he had seen an actual snuff film. Sheen contacted the MPAA, and said he would do anything to stop the distrubution of the film.


LOL, it`s good to see Charlie Sheen is so concerned about The War On Snuff!:D
Does that 'Guina Pig' movie feature young girls dressed as cheerleaders being killed? Maybe that`s what set him off!

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by Jack_Cheze



PS. Pete Townshend was let go, it seems he was stupidly trying to save the world not get off

Well.......that`s what he said anyway.
Personally, I thought his "crusade against kiddie porn" story sounded like a load of crap.

[sharkstank]

i really hope there aren't any snuff films.
the only time i even heard about it was in 8MM, and that sucked:)

WWWWHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Juice
There is a pretty big underground snuff industry in Asia.

Where did you find this out?