Bad News For Indiana Jones IV

[Moviefan1234]

http://comingsoon.net/news.php?id=3314

Looks as if they aren't happy with the script and want a rewrite. Filming now isn't expected to happen until 2005 at the earliest.
:(

[Indy in IN]

DAMN IT.

I'm assembling a mob to storm Skywalker Ranch and rough up Lucas. Who's with me?

[docholiday_13]

Originally posted by Indy in IN
DAMN IT.

I'm assembling a mob to storm Skywalker Ranch and rough up Lucas. Who's with me?


I'll hold his arms. Who's gonna work the body?

[tbone]

I'm in for giving him a good ass whooping. Anyone that says the episodes one and two had good screenplays has no room to comment on any screenplay.

[Moviefan1234]

Spielberg should just ditch Lucas and handle the whole shebang himself. Lucas is a has been, don't ruin our movie!
:mad:

[James Logan]

Originally posted by tbone
I'm in for giving him a good ass whooping. Anyone that says the episodes one and two had good screenplays has no room to comment on any screenplay.

We're not talking Oscar-winning screenplays here, but heck -- you remember the scenes? you remember the dialogue? you remember the characters? Well, that's what a screenplay is all about, bub. ;) And as far as entertaining screenplays go, the INDIANA JONES screenplays are right up there with the others.

I'm torn on this one. I want to see INDIANA JONES IV sooner than later, and I must admit I have my reserves concerning Lucas's advice on scripts -- Darabont is a very good writer, whereas Lucas has proven with the STAR WARS prequels that he can write visually and entertainment-valually (is that even a word?) efficient scripts but lacking enough emotion and too packed with wooden dialogue, and we don't want that in Indy. But on the other hand, when Lucas has only been an adviser on the script or co-writer, the script ended up being more than satisfying (EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, RETURN OF THE JEDI, the INDIANA JONES trilogy).

Whatever happens, I'd rather see a terrific INDY IV in 2007 or even no INDY IV at all than a stinky 2/10 INDY IV in 2005. Steven, George...make us wait if you have to.

[robk]

Truth be told, if Indy IV never gets made, I won't complain basically because I LOVE the final scene of Last Crusade.

[Cronos]

if this doesnt get made, i wont be that bothered, i love the original trilogy and i expect this'll use a lot of CG stuff anyway

[Boba Joe]

Originally posted by Cronos
if this doesnt get made, i wont be that bothered, i love the original trilogy and i expect this'll use a lot of CG stuff anyway

You're probably right...wouldn't want them to ruin the Indy legend.

[Terrell]

Spielberg should just ditch Lucas and handle the whole shebang himself. Lucas is a has been, don't ruin our movie!

Spielberg can't even fart on set without Lucas' permission. Lucas owns Indy. He's the only reason you have it in the first place. He created the story, the characters, etc. Spielberg has no more power over Lucas than I do. Spielberg should thank Lucas for allowing him to direct these films in the first place.

As for Lucas ruining your movie, since when have you ever owned a movie. You don't own anything. You aren't entitled to a thing.......not Star Wars, not Indy, nothing. Besides, you don't even know what's going on. So save your breath.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Have any of you thought that MAYBE the script NEEDED a rewrite?

Of course you didn't.

[HM Murdock]

I'd rather wait years for a great movie rather than have a shitty Indy 4 next year. Thank God they are taking their time on this one.

[Lizarrd]

Just remember...in IV all of the Nazis will be replaced with Ewoks...

[Moviefan1234]

Originally posted by Terrell
As for Lucas ruining your movie, since when have you ever owned a movie. You don't own anything. You aren't entitled to a thing.......not Star Wars, not Indy, nothing. Besides, you don't even know what's going on. So save your breath.

Take a look at Lucas's resume and then compare it to Spielberg's. Lucas shouldn't even be working on this movie, lately he ruins everything he glances at.

[The Rain Dog]

Originally posted by Moviefan1234
Take a look at Lucas's resume and then compare it to Spielberg's. Lucas shouldn't even be working on this movie, lately he ruins everything he glances at.

Fucking oath.

The more I read about this the more I fear it's actually going to take away from Indy's legacy.

And to those people who say "Indy doesn't belong to you" - really, just get fucked.

Did George buy all those cinema tickets, videos and dvds himself did he? :rolleyes:

RD

[Arathon]

2005 for filmming to start? 2007 for it to be released?!! Oh man...:(

[James Logan]

Relax, dudes -- whatever happens, if Spielberg shoots this, he'll run it. Not Lucas.

Reminds me of that LAST CRUSADE making-of, when they're having trouble with the seagull-crashing-in-the-Messerschmitt scene (the seagulls not wanting to take off when Sean Connery runs to them), and Steven Spielberg just jokingly goes: "Maybe we should just forget about it and matte them all in in post-production like George would do". :D

Dudes, I love Indy as much as anyone else on this planet. He's part of my buddy list. But I'm sure we all know Steven Spielberg, George Lucas and Harrison Ford love the character as much as we do and wouldn't ruin it -- and with their talent, if they don't want to to, they won't.

[HedwigX]

Originally posted by The Rain Dog
Fucking oath.

The more I read about this the more I fear it's actually going to take away from Indy's legacy.

And to those people who say "Indy doesn't belong to you" - really, just get fucked.

Did George buy all those cinema tickets, videos and dvds himself did he? :rolleyes:

RD

Yes, I garee.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

And the bitching continues....

How dare they rewrite the script and not go for the first one placed on the table! Damn them! :rolleyes:

I swear on everything that's Holy, it never stops. You guys can't be happy.

"This film's a piece of shit because they rushed it."
"Fuckers won't accept the first Indy IV script. Motherfucking Lucas!"

How about this: why not just wait fucking PATIENTLY and stop blaming people for wanting to put out the BEST PRODUCT they can possibly put out! Jesus Christ!

[APzombie]

Originally posted by James Logan
Whatever happens, I'd rather see a terrific INDY IV in 2007 or even no INDY IV at all than a stinky 2/10 INDY IV in 2005. Steven, George...make us wait if you have to.

Ditto with a capital D, I, T, T, O.

I too am kinda split, if i read the screenplay maybe my opinion would count but i havent so i dont know where Lucas stands with it.

[Indy in IN]

I don't like the fact, which is now confirmed, that Spielberg liked the script and Lucas didn't. Everyone will agree that Spielberg knows a good script when he sees one and that is very questionable with Lucas.

[James Logan]

Originally posted by Indy in IN
I don't like the fact, which is now confirmed, that Spielberg liked the script and Lucas didn't. Everyone will agree that Spielberg knows a good script when he sees one and that is very questionable with Lucas.

Yup. Now that's what's scaring me. A Frank Darabont script that Steven Spielberg loved...that sounds terrific. Especially considering the fact that in the past few years, all of Spielberg's movies have had solid (or better) scripts; while George Lucas's screenwriting skills have been what's hurting the STAR WARS prequels the most (not when it comes to action itself...his dialogue is just off most of the time).

I don't know. I don't know what to think. But now that we know Spielberg loved it and Lucas alone wants to rewrite it...I'm getting worried. I don't want INDY IV to get bashed -- even worse, I don't want it to happen because the movie deserves it.

Here's hoping Spielberg trusts Lucas, but not enough to let the man throw the baby out the window, if you know what I mean.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

I personally don't see the bad writing in the Star Wars prequels. There's no difference in the writing or acting when compared to the original trilogy.

But that's for another thread. I'm confident that George rejected the script for good reasons. And no, he won't be writing it himself. He's busy with Episode III til May. ;) From what I understood, George just didn't like the subplot of Indy's brother. It shouldn't take long to churn another script out, fixing the problem. They'll get a later start, but at least they'll be taking the time to make sure that it's the best possible movie they can make.

Now, should Lucas' (or I should say the guy that Lucas/Spielberg get to write the new draft) draft not be good, you can be assured that either Lucas OR Spielberg will reject it. Spielberg has rejected a Lucas draft before (see his idea for Indy in a castle). If Spielberg or Lucas don't like the next draft then the process will continue.

But this movie will me made, and it will be made right.

And guys, sorry for my angry post above. I can only take so much Lucas bashing. :)

[James Logan]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
From what I understood, George just didn't like the subplot of Indy's brother.


Got a link or a source concerning that?

Because as far as I heard, the whole Indy-brother thing is just a long-dead rumour. Steven Spielberg stated numerous time it's bull, Frank Darabont answered an interview while he was writing the thing to say there was no such thing as an Indy brother in the draft, and Kevin Costner (who the rumours said was hired already to play the job) stated in several interviews since OPEN RANGE came out that he never even heard of people wanting him to be in INDIANA JONES IV.

Besides, such a subplot is just highly unprobable.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Honestly, I can't find the link. I started looking once I read your post but can't find it. I could have sworn I read it on Coming Soon....but I can't find it there.

Anyways, stepbrother subplot or not, I'm pretty sure Lucas was justified in his rejecting the script and that in the end we'll end up with a great story and a great movie.

It may take a little while, but the wait will be worth it. No need to rush the project at all.

[osklen]

Dude, i'm starting to get pissed of with Geoge Lucas!

In the last 8 years, he ruined the Star Wars' new Trilogy and now he is f*cking with Indy!

Spielberg loved the script! and he's the genious one. they should do it before Harrison Ford gets senile!

[Indy in IN]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
I personally don't see the bad writing in the Star Wars prequels. There's no difference in the writing or acting when compared to the original trilogy.

I agree with you 100%. We all see the originals, which I LOVE, through our eyes as 10 year olds. Now that we are older, we just don't "get" the new ones. The acting is not that different.

Sorry for the Star Wars info in the Indy thread.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by Indy in IN
I agree with you 100%. We all see the originals, which I LOVE, through our eyes as 10 year olds. Now that we are older, we just don't "get" the new ones. The acting is not that differant.

Sorry for the Star Wars info in the Indy thread.

It's great to see someone agree with me for once on that subject! :)

[The Rain Dog]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
It's great to see someone agree with me for once on that subject! :)

I disagree with both your opinions.

RD

[Moviefan1234]

Originally posted by The Rain Dog
I disagree with both your opinions.


:D You crack me up sometimes.

I recently read that Spielberg thought the script was 'great,' but Lucas didn't care for Indy's brother being in the script. Sadly, this may have been the bump in the road that it can't get over. :(

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by The Rain Dog
I disagree with both your opinions.

RD

Okay? What's new?

Originally posted by Moviefan1234
I recently read that Spielberg thought the script was 'great,' but Lucas didn't care for Indy's brother being in the script.

So I wasn't the only one who read it. Now if only I could find the link.

[The Rain Dog]

Defend the bearded one now - thanks to him Darabont is completely out of the picture and fuck knows whats going to happen...

From the mouth of Frank Darabont... (http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=17037)

"The short and simple version of the INDIANA JONES 4 situation is that after more than a year of working closely with Steven Spielberg developing the story, I had completed a screenplay that Steven loved and was hoping to shoot in July of this year. However, George Lucas had issues with the script and slammed on the brakes in order to rework the material himself. There is talk of enlisting another writer. Given that George is the producer, but even moreso because of their long and close friendship, Steven is deferring to George in this situation.
It is now up to them to try to find a common ground regarding the film. I wish them luck and hope their efforts result in something they're both excited about shooting. What, if anything, might remain of my work at the end of the process is anybody's guess, assuming the film even gets made at this point. As for me, I'm disappointed, but I'm putting the experience behind me and moving on with my life and my own projects."

Fuck Lucas in his stupid arse.

Steven loved it?

Thats fucking good enough for me.

RD :mad:

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Steven also liked the scripts of AI, Minority Report and 1941. Doesn't necessarily mean the Indy script turned in was good (this coming from a film student whose idol IS Steven Spielberg).

Be patient Rain Dog. We'll get our Indy IV soon enough. :)

[gyro_44]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
And the bitching continues....

How dare they rewrite the script and not go for the first one placed on the table! Damn them! :rolleyes:

I can definitely see your point, Mr. Krueger... but I think it's a combination of things that has people pissed here.

One, Frank Darabont has proven himself as a tremendous filmmaker with SHAWSHANK and is no hack. Two, Spielberg ok'd the script. And three, it's painful to think that we have to wait until 2007 for this thing.

I'd also rather have a great Indy movie in '07 than a mediocre one in '05. But there is the possibility that the script was the best we will get, and Lucas shot it down for stupid reasons. I hope not. But this is the man who wrote the dialogue in ATTACK OF THE CLONES.

If this is delayed much further, it may never happen.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

It may not be all George's fault (From TheForce.net):

We've been crushed recently at the rumors that George didn't like the script for Indiana Jones 4, so when we heard some rumblings on the current state of the project we wanted to get them into your hands as quickly as possible. Apparently the film is not dead as many have feared, though being stalled is a fair description. Here's what we're hearing, consider it rumor for now:
- The 4th Indiana Jones was indeed stalled because of problems with the script. From what we gather the script didn't satisfy the "3 principals." From what we can tell, Lucas is taking the hit for this despite the fact that those in the know making no mention of Lucas specifically as the source of the problem.
- We believe that Paramount has pushed the release date back a year, from July 4th weekend 2005 to 4th of July 2006. There is still "every reason to believe" the film will get made, despite the growing concern for ages.

- To fill the gap that moving Indy IV to 2006 created, the studio has green-lit a remake of "The Longest Yard" staring Adam Sandler and Chris Rock with a target release of Memorial Day 2005 (and also direct Star wars III competition, noted).


Gyro, as I stated earlier on my stance of "Star Wars dialogue", that it's no different than the other 4 films. Read the scripts sometime. They're practically the same. George tries to get as close to serials such as Flash Gordon dialogue-wise as he can. Whereas with Indy, he's always been open to more human dialogue (granted he didn't write the scripts, but he was always the man to approve them).

I think there may have been something big wrong with the script. Darabont, I agree, is a great screenwriter. But something must have gone wrong. Maybe Indy was too over the top? Maybe Darabont put in some Lethal Weapon-esque "I'm getting to old for this" jokes which is a no no.

I'm just saying there are many possibilities as to why the script was rejected. It's way too early to tell what happened, and no one should be jumping down George's throat about it. The man created two of the greatest movie series of all time, give him a LITTLE credit.

[gyro_44]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
Gyro, as I stated earlier on my stance of "Star Wars dialogue", that it's no different than the other 4 films. Read the scripts sometime. They're practically the same. George tries to get as close to serials such as Flash Gordon dialogue-wise as he can. Whereas with Indy, he's always been open to more human dialogue (granted he didn't write the scripts, but he was always the man to approve them).

I think there may have been something big wrong with the script. Darabont, I agree, is a great screenwriter. But something must have gone wrong. Maybe Indy was too over the top? Maybe Darabont put in some Lethal Weapon-esque "I'm getting to old for this" jokes which is a no no.

I'm just saying there are many possibilities as to why the script was rejected. It's way too early to tell what happened, and no one should be jumping down George's throat about it. The man created two of the greatest movie series of all time, give him a LITTLE credit.
I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Lucas was never a very good screenwriter. But in the prequels, his direction doesn't seem to support the dialogue as well. For me, the embarrassing romantic exchanges in Episode II stick out like a sore thumb.

Having said that, I will never jump on the "fuck Lucas" bandwagon. For all their hideous flaws, I still enjoyed a lot about the prequels. And his imagination spawned an entire universe. Can't knock him for that. I just hope he had Indy's best interests in mind when he rejected this script... and after his long involvement with the franchise, I'm betting he did.

[Indy in IN]

Originally posted by gyro_44
Having said that, I will never jump on the "fuck Lucas" bandwagon. For all their hideous flaws, I still enjoyed a lot about the prequels. And his imagination spawned an entire universe. Can't knock him for that.

Me neither. I have never been as excited for a movie release as I was for both Episode I and II and soon III.

[The Rain Dog]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger

- The 4th Indiana Jones was indeed stalled because of problems with the script. From what we gather the script didn't satisfy the "3 principals." From what we can tell, Lucas is taking the hit for this despite the fact that those in the know making no mention of Lucas specifically as the source of the problem.
- We believe that Paramount has pushed the release date back a year, from July 4th weekend 2005 to 4th of July 2006. There is still "every reason to believe" the film will get made, despite the growing concern for ages.

Im sorry - but if Im not going mad didn't I just post a direct quote from one of those "3 princaples" specifically blaming Lucas for the problem???

You go to THEFORCE.NET to get a defense of Lucas?!?!?!

NO bias there at all.:rolleyes:

How long do you want to keep making excuses for the guy???

RD

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by The Rain Dog


How long do you want to keep making excuses for the guy???

RD

Oh Good Lord man. How long are you going to be a bitter, unhappy individual who can only nitpick and whine about movies? Oh boo hoo, your fucking movie isn't going to be made for another couple of years. I think you can move on with your life.

Face facts, Rain Dog. Lucas hasn't changed since the day he started in the business. He's not being a dick, he's being who he's always been. Something was fucking wrong with the Indy IV script and he tossed it aside. He would have done the same thing in 1980, in 1985, and 1989!

*Sigh* But why am I even trying. Even if Lucas did something good in your eyes you'd still find something to bitch about. These people who whine and bitch about Lucas and how he doesn't care about the fans is a whole bunch of crap. I swear, you're like spoiled children sometimes because you don't always get what you want. Or you expect too much and bitch and moan (see the prequel trilogy).

I defend Lucas because he doesn't deserve this constant bashing. It's fucking ridiculous. The man creates the most successful movie series of all time, Star Wars, and what does he get for it? He gets crazy, child-like nerds treating him like crap. He makes those films more technologically advanced so that they can match his vision. He gets all this flack and gets called a crazy bastard for finishing his work.

Why? Because of the use of CGI? Because of these so called "badly written scripts" that are no different than the scripts before them? Star Wars "fans" (I put fans in quotation marks because a fan doesn't bitch constantly) need to realize that Lucas isn't changing, they are. They think his writing is lame because they're all grown up now, and can't fall to "cheesy" dialogue like they could in 1977. They hate the CGI for no particular reason, when I'd personally like to see how the hell they'd do The Clone Wars with models. It would be pretty impossible considering that war is a hundred times larger than Hoth or Endor.

Getting back to the Indy IV script, I still believe there's good enough reason to believe that Lucas had his reasons to reject them. The man allowed Raiders, Temple and Crusade to happen. Indy IV most likely wasn't up to the standards of the previous entries.

If you want to be yet another bitter person who hates Lucas for no real particular reason, go ahead. Truth be told, you're in the minority.

Oh, as for my Indy IV info from Force.net: they said it was still rumor. They didn't make it up, and they're sure as hell more objective than StarWars.com would be.

[The Rain Dog]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
Oh Good Lord man. How long are you going to be a bitter, unhappy individual who can only nitpick and whine about movies? Oh boo hoo, your fucking movie isn't going to be made for another couple of years. I think you can move on with your life.

Get fucked with your condescending shit-stirring. I do a lot more than just "whine about movies" if you see my contributions in other threads - but obviously that's not fitting into your generalized profiling of me as a "Lucas hater" so lets just toss that out. Never let the truth get in the way of a good sledging. :rolleyes:

Face facts, Rain Dog. Lucas hasn't changed since the day he started in the business. He's not being a dick, he's being who he's always been. Something was fucking wrong with the Indy IV script and he tossed it aside. He would have done the same thing in 1980, in 1985, and 1989!

Once again gross speculation on your behalf to support nothing more than your opinion that you seem to be trying to dress up as fact

*Sigh* But why am I even trying. Even if Lucas did something good in your eyes you'd still find something to bitch about. These people who whine and bitch about Lucas and how he doesn't care about the fans is a whole bunch of crap. I swear, you're like spoiled children sometimes because you don't always get what you want. Or you expect too much and bitch and moan (see the prequel trilogy).

Yet more generalising and grouping of people as "Lucas haters" who all have the same mind, opinions and views apparently. Oh that's right, they don't actually, it just suits you better to lump a bunch of people who happen to disagree with your opinions into the same faceless category :rolleyes:

I defend Lucas because he doesn't deserve this constant bashing. It's fucking ridiculous. The man creates the most successful movie series of all time, Star Wars, and what does he get for it? He gets crazy, child-like nerds treating him like crap. He makes those films more technologically advanced so that they can match his vision. He gets all this flack and gets called a crazy bastard for finishing his work.

That's simply your view of the situation - there are other equally valid perspectives.

Why? Because of the use of CGI?
To the detriment of all else including plot, halfway decent dialogue and character? Personally, yes.

Because of these so called "badly written scripts" that are no different than the scripts before them?
You're doing that whole "this is my opinion so it must be fact" thing again.

Star Wars "fans" (I put fans in quotation marks because a fan doesn't bitch constantly) need to realize that Lucas isn't changing, they are.
AGAIN with the, opinions - I choose to disagree.

They think his writing is lame because they're all grown up now, and can't fall to "cheesy" dialogue like they could in 1977. They hate the CGI for no particular reason, when I'd personally like to see how the hell they'd do The Clone Wars with models.

It's so refreshing having someone tell me my own mind on these things. Wherever would I be without you fred?

Getting back to the Indy IV script, I still believe there's good enough reason to believe that Lucas had his reasons to reject them. The man allowed Raiders, Temple and Crusade to happen. Indy IV most likely wasn't up to the standards of the previous entries.

Sounds like both Frank Darabont AND Steven Spielberg disagree with you. And considering their records of quality film-making in the last few years and Lucas's prequals - guess who I've got more faith in?

If you want to be yet another bitter person who hates Lucas for no real particular reason, go ahead. Truth be told, you're in the minority.

I don't hate Lucas.

I just see a man with a truely incredible imagination who's ego has been so deeply stroked for so long that he honestly believes he can over-extend himself as both a screenwriter and director, when he hadnt done either for 20 years. I see a man who has surrounded himself with enough yes men that no ones got the balls to tell him he may not be infallible in all his ideas. But thanks for that whole gross generalisation thing again.:rolleyes:

Oh, as for my Indy IV info from Force.net: they said it was still rumor. They didn't make it up, and they're sure as hell more objective than StarWars.com would be.

Sure they said it was still a rumour - but the Darabont quote I gave above it directly contradicts that which is a factor you seem to be conveniantly ignoring.

Im not bitter, Im not twisted, George didnt rape my childhood or anything ridiculous like that.

What I see is pride tainting the work of a man who's creativity was at it's best when he surrounded himself with the right screenwriters and directors and would actually listen to their input and ideas.

What I see is a man grown fat off his success who feels he can do no wrong and, regardless of the quality of his creative output, will still be considered genius.

But hey what would I know - thats just MY opinion and Im just a bitter whining Lucas hater who most probably eats babies to boot.:rolleyes:

RD

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by The Rain Dog
Get fucked with your condescending shit-stirring. I do a lot more than just "whine about movies" if you see my contributions in other threads - but obviously that's not fitting into your generalized profiling of me as a "Lucas hater" so lets just toss that out. Never let the truth get in the way of a good sledging. :rolleyes:



Once again gross speculation on your behalf to support nothing more than your opinion that you seem to be trying to dress up as fact



Yet more generalising and grouping of people as "Lucas haters" who all have the same mind, opinions and views apparently. Oh that's right, they don't actually, it just suits you better to lump a bunch of people who happen to disagree with your opinions into the same faceless category :rolleyes:



That's simply your view of the situation - there are other equally valid perspectives.


To the detriment of all else including plot, halfway decent dialogue and character? Personally, yes.


You're doing that whole "this is my opinion so it must be fact" thing again.


AGAIN with the, opinions - I choose to disagree.



It's so refreshing having someone tell me my own mind on these things. Wherever would I be without you fred?



Sounds like both Frank Darabont AND Steven Spielberg disagree with you. And considering their records of quality film-making in the last few years and Lucas's prequals - guess who I've got more faith in?



I don't hate Lucas.

I just see a man with a truely incredible imagination who's ego has been so deeply stroked for so long that he honestly believes he can over-extend himself as both a screenwriter and director, when he hadnt done either for 20 years. I see a man who has surrounded himself with enough yes men that no ones got the balls to tell him he may not be infallible in all his ideas. But thanks for that whole gross generalisation thing again.:rolleyes:



Sure they said it was still a rumour - but the Darabont quote I gave above it directly contradicts that which is a factor you seem to be conveniantly ignoring.

Im not bitter, Im not twisted, George didnt rape my childhood or anything ridiculous like that.

What I see is pride tainting the work of a man who's creativity was at it's best when he surrounded himself with the right screenwriters and directors and would actually listen to their input and ideas.

What I see is a man grown fat off his success who feels he can do no wrong and, regardless of the quality of his creative output, will still be considered genius.

But hey what would I know - thats just MY opinion and Im just a bitter whining Lucas hater who most probably eats babies to boot.:rolleyes:

RD

First Rain Dog, forgive my condescending attitude. There's something I hate more than constant Lucas bashing, and that's arguing with someone on the internet. Sometimes when I have a certain feeling, I do get a bit excessive. So I won't need to "get fucked" as you put it.

I wouldn't say all of my opinions are just being dressed up as fact. My comments on Lucas' screenwriting compared to the other SW scripts remain true: just take a gander at the scripts on this very website. They're no different in style truthfully. Whether you like them or not, well that's up to you.

As for my opinion on the Lucas bashers, I was just going on what I've noticed in many threads not just here, but else where (hell, believe it or not, they appear on the official Star Wars forum as well). It may not hold true to you, and I apologize for throwing it on you like you were like those others.

As for the CGI and special effects argument, one has to understand that George has always relied on them to tell the story. Without the CGI of today, these prequels wouldn't be able to exist at all. It doesn't mean you have to like them, but the story of the Clone Wars and the battle of the Gungans/Trade Federation on Naboo can't be done without it. In my own opinion ( ;) ), I think it looks as real as it can be considering these creatures are fictional and does help the plot.

The Indy IV script: Darabont and Spielberg may have liked the script. But I think that it's pretty safe to say that there may have been something wrong with it, or that it wasn't up to par with the previous entries. I digress on this however, in that I'm sure we'll hear something from George soon enough. He'll have to explain why he tossed it aside sooner or later.

As for the rumor I posted, it was just that a rumor. I never said that it was truth or that Darabont lied or was wrong. Meh.

One thing that does make me happy about your above post is that you say that George didn't rape your childhood. That's something that usually sets me off (and something that distinguishes you from most Lucas bashers).

I will however continue to defend Lucas as much as possible. The man created two movie trilogies that I grew up watching and will continue to watch the rest of my life. And for that I'm grateful of him.

I will apologize with the above post in that I came off condescending and perhaps did use opinions as fact. I'm not saying I agree with you on your stance, but I guess that's just the way the world turns.

Oh, and I would hope you didn't eat babies. ;)

[The Rain Dog]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
First Rain Dog, forgive my condescending attitude. There's something I hate more than constant Lucas bashing, and that's arguing with someone on the internet. Sometimes when I have a certain feeling, I do get a bit excessive. So I won't need to "get fucked" as you put it.

Then forgive my "get fucked" then :D

I wouldn't say all of my opinions are just being dressed up as fact. My comments on Lucas' screenwriting compared to the other SW scripts remain true: just take a gander at the scripts on this very website. They're no different in style truthfully. Whether you like them or not, well that's up to you.

As an aspiring screenwriter I'd say they differ quite markedly in style on a structural level - corny dialogue aside - in the way that you get mass slabs of exposition in the prequals trying to get everyone up to speed on whats actually happening in the plot juxtaposed against big action set pieces - I would argue the original trilogy melded these two screenplay concepts in a far more successfully seemless manner than Lucas has done this time out - he made basic mistakes that a script editor would have fixed up in about ten seconds. But this is dueling opinions yet again and we're both entitled to ours ;)

As for my opinion on the Lucas bashers, I was just going on what I've noticed in many threads not just here, but else where (hell, believe it or not, they appear on the official Star Wars forum as well). It may not hold true to you, and I apologize for throwing it on you like you were like those others.

Apology more than accepted, just rememebr your not discussing Lucas with them - you're discussing him with me ;)

As for the CGI and special effects argument, one has to understand that George has always relied on them to tell the story. Without the CGI of today, these prequels wouldn't be able to exist at all. It doesn't mean you have to like them, but the story of the Clone Wars and the battle of the Gungans/Trade Federation on Naboo can't be done without it. In my own opinion ( ;) ), I think it looks as real as it can be considering these creatures are fictional and does help the plot.

To be honest its not the overuse of CGI and digital technology that I take issue with when it comes to the prequals - it's their seemingly replacing other more traditional filmic storytelling techniques - like halfway-decent characters and plot.

The Indy IV script: Darabont and Spielberg may have liked the script. But I think that it's pretty safe to say that there may have been something wrong with it, or that it wasn't up to par with the previous entries. I digress on this however, in that I'm sure we'll hear something from George soon enough. He'll have to explain why he tossed it aside sooner or later.

Heres hoping he does - but this issue really comes down to a matter of faith - your faith in George is still completely intact - mine has wavered and wavered badly. Thus you see the glass half full, me half empty. That simply comes down to differing perspectives.

As for the rumor I posted, it was just that a rumor. I never said that it was truth or that Darabont lied or was wrong. Meh.

No fair play to you you didnt say that. But I would have thought there was simply no need to post a rumour after Id posted a direct quote completely dispelling that very rumour before you'd posted it - fair?

One thing that does make me happy about your above post is that you say that George didn't rape your childhood. That's something that usually sets me off (and something that distinguishes you from most Lucas bashers).

I've heard similair ridiculous claims and, while Im annoyed Im not going to be able to see the original trilogy that I grew up with on an official dvd anytime soon - the films still exist for me to see. So such claims are beyond silly. It helps that I actually have something called "a life" outside of film and while I love the medium very much - it hardly rules my world in any way shape or form. Something that many film geeks in general (be they Lucas lovers or haters :D) can't claim IMO.

I will however continue to defend Lucas as much as possible. The man created two movie trilogies that I grew up watching and will continue to watch the rest of my life. And for that I'm grateful of him.

Fair call there Fred and I understand where youre coming from as those two trilogies are two of my favourites of all time as well. I'll always be grateful to the guy for those - but I won't pretend that the prequals shook my faith in him to their foundations (and believe me, I spent a looooooong time in denial that I didn't actually enjoy them - I really WANTED to adore them more than anything) and that I feel like he's running on the kudos of that past success to make what I personally see as being inferior products tied to a beloved film mythology.

I will apologize with the above post in that I came off condescending and perhaps did use opinions as fact. I'm not saying I agree with you on your stance, but I guess that's just the way the world turns.

Oh, and I would hope you didn't eat babies. ;) ;)

MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm... babies.:D

Hey no sweat fred - Im glad we could end up getting our views out in the open on this rather than the continual sniping back and forth we've been doing for the last few weeks ;)

Lets just agree to disagree on this one cause it'd be a helluva boring world if we all saw things the same way ;)

Isaac The Rain Dog

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by The Rain Dog


Lets just agree to disagree on this one cause it'd be a helluva boring world if we all saw things the same way ;)



True that, my friend. :)

ADDED: I can't believe I keep forgetting to post this. Anyways, Rain Dog, there's actually a documentary on the Episode I DVD entitled The Beginning. I don't know if you've seen it yet, but if you haven't I'd recommend checking it out. There's a portion near the end where George and everyone working on the film watch the rough cut of the film. After it's over he actually admits the flaws of it (namely certain choppy scenes, the fact that there's just so much info in the first ten minutes, the short scenes) and pretty much asks himself, "Oh what have I done!" I think it shows that he knows that the first prequel in particular isn't perfect and could have been better. It won't change your opinion of him as a director or writer, but I think it shows that he can still be critical of his own work. :)

I think it may be interesting to you, also, that Lucas has also been willing to take advice and stuff from the actors this time round in Episode III. So I would expect less "Flash Gordon"-esque dialogue this time round. :)

But now that I've talked about what I've been meaning to talk about, I think it's cool that we can just let by gones be by gones. :)

[Moviefan1234]

There seems to still be hope that we may see Indiana Jones IV in 2005. I don't know if this is true or not, so take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/indy4news.php?id=4080

[APzombie]

Lucasarts reported that to be false, but there is still hope since Spielberg left his next project.

[docholiday_13]

As long as Stevereno is calling the shots, I'll have faith.







But should Spielberg fall to the dark side...well then may God have mercy on us all!