The stupidity of American entertainment

[stefanb]

This right here completely explains why Janet decided to yank her tit out at the Superbowl... Over at yahoo.com, guess who (by total coincidence, I'm sure) is the Launch Artist of the Month? It's none other than...

http://www.banda.ca/x/JanetJ.jpg

...I mean comeon... You can't have it both ways.... You can paint her as this evil person who did this horrible thing that corrupted children everywhere, and then give a logical explination at to why she rocketed skyward in popularity since it happened.

What annoys me isn't the fact that she did this publicity stunt. It's the fact that people are so fucking stupid that they lined up to help make her little publicity stunt actually work!!! The conservative-right makes such a loud stink that she gets headlines galore, media attention out the wazoo, sells more albums, and her popularity booms at a time when she was about to disappear off the radar screen completely.

Artist of the month? what the fuck ever... the only place she belongs is here:

http://www.towview.com/west/

-S

[jeo4]

I get really tired of hearing how everything about America sucks on this site. I also get tired of everyone but Janet Jackson getting blamed for showing her breast during a the most watched show on television. The right wing had nothing to do with her stunt other than the fact that one member or anbother of the FCC is conservative. In fact, the media was the driving force for all this hype, not politicians or Christians. She did it and she knew what she was doing. The fact she got ribbed for it on Letterman is funny as hell to me.

I'm beginning to think she is playing innocent about the whole thing, but really did it to boost sales of her new album. In either case, I could safely bet that most Americans don't give a flying fuck about the incident or Janet Jackson herself. I'm even willing to bet that most people are sick of hearing about her and her tit (I sure am). The fact that Yahoo put her on as artist of the month just tells me another media source is capitalizing on the incident. Quite frankly, America is the source for most of the pop culture on this planet. And most of it is quite good. The fact that the media blows everything up as a huge news story isn't the fault of anyone else in America. If she takes heat for it, it's nobody's fault but her own. Don't blame the entire country for a few people's royal fuck up.

[stefanb]

I totally agree that it's nobody's fault but her own. In fact, I think she (and Justin) should be the only one(s) the FCC is allowed to fine over this.

I'm beginning to think she is playing innocent about the whole thing, but really did it to boost sales of her new album. In either case, I could safely bet that most Americans don't give a flying fuck about the incident or Janet Jackson herself. Bravo!

Quite frankly, America is the source for most of the pop culture on this planet. And most of it is quite good. yea... riiiiight. America is the source for most of the pop culture in America and to an extremely lesser extent, Canada, western Europe, etc. That said, of the 5 billion people on the planet, I think about 4 billion of them don't give a flying rat's ass about American pop culture.

Don't blame the entire country for a few people's royal fuck up. I wasn't attempting to blame the entire country, so sorry if it came across that way. I called the thread "the stupidity of American entertainment", not the "stupidity of Americans", and I in NO WAY intended to imply the latter. I don't honestly know exactly who needs the finger pointed at them for all this (aside from Janet). The fact is that she was falling off the radar screens before this incident, and now she's selling albums, doing talk shows, and on top of the world. We all know what SHE did, but I'm questioning why that turned into success for her. Why did more people buy her album? Why do talk shows want her to come on? Why does the biggest music streaming site on the Internet make her "Artist of the Month"? If what you say is true and "...Americans don't give a flying fuck about the incident or Janet Jackson herself...", then explain why all these other things are happening. Clearly people aren't sick of it, and clearly they DO "give a flying fuck" about Janet herself. If that wasn't the case, then she wouldn't be selling albums, doing talk shows, and getting named Artist of the Month.

TOPIC CHANGE (sorta)... In 1981 Ozzy Ozbourne bit the head off a live dove, and a few months later did the same thing with a live bat at a concert. Similar media BS ensued, and 23 years later we're still seeing Ozzy in the media daily. It quite literally launched his career. The question I'm asking (not answering) is why is American pop culture so over-attracted to bizzare acts of public stupidity? Clearly there IS a connection... Michael Moore being launched into superstardom by freaking out on the Oscar stage. Britney/Madonna/Christina and the open-mouth kiss. There's even been a DVD set (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006J6XH/104-5327544-2515954?v=glance) made of the old TV show Baretta, and it almost CERTINALY would NOT have been released if not for actor Robert Blake's murder trial. The list goes on and on and on and on. American pop culture, on an individual level, IS fueled by acts of complete and total public stupidity. I'm not going to appologize for making that observation. I'm just wondering why.

-S

[Tuukka]

I think this problem is the same everywhere in the world. It's definitely the same in Europe and here in Finland. So a more appropriate title for this tread would be "The stupidity of entertainment".

But people get what people want. Janet's tits were a hot topic in this forum as well. Everyone discussed about it.

[stefanb]

Originally posted by Tuukka
I think this problem is the same everywhere in the world. It's definitely the same in Europe and here in Finland. So a more appropriate title for this tread would be "The stupidity of entertainment". Agreed; that would be a much more appropriate title.

Originally posted by Tuukka
But people get what people want. Janet's tits were a hot topic in this forum as well. Everyone discussed about it. Okay, but I'm now asking that if people get what people want, do people really want Janet, or are we having her force-fed to us by the large corporate entertainment distribution machines? Personally, I've never bought an album of hers, and I don't plan on it. There are also lots of people who've always bought her albums, and they will likely continue to. Fine, fine. I'm just curious as to why there are CLEARLY people out there who never have bought her albums, but will (for some reason) go out and buy this one. Is it because they suddenly realized they liked her music? What's the "motivation" for people who buy this album, without having bought a previous one from her? Clearly such people do exist. Clearly people buy Michael Moore's book because he freaked out at the Oscars and became "noticed". Clearly Madonna has enjoyed a long career as a result of always remaining in some sort controversy (be it her sex book, 'R' movies, lesbian stage kisses, etc, etc). Same goes for 20 years of Ozzy. Good lord... they've produced an entire Baretta DVD series all because the main actor allegedly killed a woman. Why do "we" buy the things done by people who we likely wouldn't care about sans an act of total public stupidity?

[James Logan]

Originally posted by jeo4
Quite frankly, America is the source for most of the pop culture on this planet. And most of it is quite good.

a) No, America is not the source for most of the pop culture on this planet. It's only the source of the pop culture thingies that get the most publicity and cash in the most money. If that.

b) No, most of it sucks the sweat off a dead elephant's balls. Some rare elements of it are just plain terrific. But most of it, like everywhere and for everything, suck.

c) On this whole thing, if I've said it before...: Janet can show me her boob(s) again anytime.

[stefanb]

I don't think you can argue Jeo4's point that American pop culture does transcend the borders of the United States (perhaps more so than other countries pop culture), and it does have a massive fan base that generated BILLIONS of dollars in revenue. That's fine that YOU think it "sucks", but let's at least try to look at it objectively.

[jeo4]

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What he said.

[stefanb]

Originally posted by jeo4

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What he said. Yea, but I also said, yea... riiiiight. America is the source for most of the pop culture in America and to an extremely lesser extent, Canada, western Europe, etc. That said, of the 5 billion people on the planet, I think about 4 billion of them don't give a flying rat's ass about American pop culture.

:p

[Pain In Da Azz]

more people in other countries know about american pop music and pop icons than we know of theirs. like Logan said, it's more popular because it brings in the most money...doesnt mean i like it though. ;)

and why is this thread about American Entertainment anyway? The media blew this thing out of proportion. That can happen in ANY country.

[MarkItZero]

Originally posted by stefanb
Clearly such people do exist.

And that is why I have made it my life's work to find these people and kill them all........you know who you are!

[James Logan]

Originally posted by stefanb
I don't think you can argue Jeo4's point that American pop culture does transcend the borders of the United States (perhaps more so than other countries pop culture), and it does have a massive fan base that generated BILLIONS of dollars in revenue. That's fine that YOU think it "sucks", but let's at least try to look at it objectively.

Hey, I love the good American pop stuff -- I got my Britney Spears videos, I got my Michael Jackson CDs, I got everything you can name. But 90% of everything sucks.

Michael Jackson rules. Madonna rules. Britney Spears is sexy. But for every one single product of pop that's great, anyone can name three that suck. And there exists dozens more you can't name because you've never heard of 'em. But I'm not saying that for American pop culture per se. I also love porn. 90% of porn flicks stink -- image is grainy, girl is ugly, so on and so forth. I also love French literature. But for every Rimbaud or Baudelaire, I got a hundred books that SUCK.

All I'm saying is that most of everything sucks. And yes, American pop culture is the most exported and the most easily-exported in the world today -- but it does not make it the source of most of it. For every Christina Aguilera America sends us, we got half a dozen. They exist. No one outside our borders knows shit about them, but they exist.

[stefanb]

Originally posted by Pain In Da Azz
more people in other countries know about american pop music and pop icons than we know of theirs. like Logan said, it's more popular because it brings in the most money...doesnt mean i like it though. ;) It's totally ridiculous to say "it's more popular because it brings in the most money". That's completely backwards. In reality, it brings the most money because it's popular. Once you reverse it, it still doesn't answer the question, why is it popular? Do we (as consumers of the entertainment industry) have a perpetual attraction for ridiculous public behavior? Let's be serious (and also aim the topic at someone new)... Britney Spears didn't kiss Madonna because either of them are a lesbian (sorry guys). It was a media stunt, just like Janet Jackson's boob was a media stunt. These stunts lead to media coverage, and the media coverage inevitably leads to controversy, and the controversy somehow fuels public demand for their "product". We've all known for a long time that it's more about image than music, but I'm just wondering why. Aside from "why", I'm also wondering why we are apparently more attracted to negative (controversial) images than to positive ones? Janet Jackson would not be the "Launch Artist of the Month" if she hadn't shown her tit during the superbowl. However... She did. She is. Why?

Originally posted by Pain In Da Azz
and why is this thread about American Entertainment anyway? The media blew this thing out of proportion. That can happen in ANY country. I already said very clearly that it would have been more appropriate for me to title this thread "the stupidity of entertainment". It's certainly not isolated in America, but it's most obvious there.

-S

[stefanb]

Originally posted by James Logan
Michael Jackson rules. Madonna rules. Britney Spears is sexy. But for every one single product of pop that's great, anyone can name three that suck. I see... Those are the good ones? Are you sure you weren't trying to name the "three that suck"?

In fact, Michael Jackson is a PERFECT example. HE PAID MONEY to bring bus loads of fans to his own arraignment hearing on child molestation charges! Is that not a perfect example of the public stupidity that I'm referring to?

-S

[James Logan]

Oh, if we're talking stupidity, he's the perfect example indeed. :)

I was talking about the quality of the product -- in this case, MJJ's music. Take Thriller. Music rules. "Good" (I put quotes because it's always subjective in some way) pop culture music, very few will contest that.

My posts are answering the fact that American pop culture is almost seen by some as what most culture in the world is -- and that, I think, is stating a mistake.

If we're talking the subject this thread is about originally, then what I have to say is agree with Tuukk' -- that entertainment stupidity is the same everywhere. You said the US, Tuukk' said Finland, and I can add France to the list. And as Tuukk' said, people get what people want -- and fortunately or not, you can't argue with that.

[James Logan]

Originally posted by stefanb
It's totally ridiculous to say "it's more popular because it brings in the most money". That's completely backwards. In reality, it brings the most money because it's popular.

It starts bringing money because it's popular, aka, a lot of people like it.
Then it gets even more popular, aka more and more people know it, because it brings money.
Let's face it -- if no one's paying a dime to buy your CD, no one'll give you coverage, no one'll talk about you, no one'll like you for very long.

Originally posted by stefanb
Aside from "why", I'm also wondering why we are apparently more attracted to negative (controversial) images than to positive ones?


a) Because positive ones are boring?
b) Because, as they say, there's no such thing as bad press? (more a pirouette than a real answer there, but sue me ;))
c) In these specific cases, because, let's face it -- sex sells, and people think with their dicks. Britney Spears kissed Madonna, girl on girl action, gotta buy the CD! Janet popped a boob, she's a slut, gotta buy the CD! Kylie Minogue likes to shake her ass on stage and do lingerie commercials, gotta buy the CD!

[stefanb]

Originally posted by James Logan
Oh, if we're talking stupidity, he's the perfect example indeed. :) I was talking about the quality of the product ROTFLMAO! Yea... Michael's really the top of the heap, isn't he? riiiiiight. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by James Logan
And as Tuukk' said, people get what people want -- and fortunately or not, you can't argue with that. Who said I was arguing with it? I'm wondering why people want the things they want, and what effect these media events have on those "wants".

[BakeTheMooCow]

That's amazing that she's Artist of the Month, since the general word-of-mouth among people I know is that they wish she would just go away. It's a strange phenomenon in this country where people love to push people into the spotlight and complain when they get there! I noticed this with Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez last year. There was a thread (http://www.joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1244428) about the most hated celebrity of the year on these boards, and "Bennifer" was well ahead of others in the poll. In my response, I wrote that the poll results make no sense at all. If you perform a search for Affleck or Lopez or Bennifer in the topics of the Celeb Talk forum, you'll find dozens and dozens of them on the smallest news stories. So if people love to talk about them.. how, then, can people complain when they remain in the spotlight?

Sorry to go off on a tangent on your topic, stefanb.. but I really find this bizarre.

[James Logan]

Originally posted by stefanb
ROTFLMAO! Yea... Michael's really the top of the heap, isn't he? riiiiiight. :rolleyes:


Well, name one American pop artist who ever put out one album most people respect and listen to as much as Thriller. In every country of the world, MJJ's music (from that era), independantly of the fact he's a wacko, is generally considered the best pop music gets. There's always exceptions, and more and more so (always hard to say you like the music of an accused pedophile who likes one of Santa's elves would in a Tim Burton movie), but it doesn't get any more consensual than that.

Originally posted by stefanb

Who said I was arguing with it? I'm wondering why people want the things they want, and what effect these media events have on those "wants".

Well, that's turning into talking about a thesis for a psychology major. ;) I'll just say: people have impulses, determined by several innate and acquired factors. These impulses are triggered by something -- very often what you see or hear. Media events show you most of what you see and give you to hear most of what you hear, thus triggering said impulses.

That's my thought on that.

[stefanb]

Originally posted by James Logan
It starts bringing money because it's popular, aka, a lot of people like it. James, we're not having the same conversation here... The fact is that Janet Jackson wasn't sitting on top of the world. She was a decade past stardom and falling off the radar screens of entertainment audiences. Now, she's artist of the month. She didn't make that leap because "aka, a lot of people like it.". She made that leap because she showed her tit to 90 million people. At some point, that controversy fueled an entertainment demand that it shouldn't have logically had any effect on. I don't question that "a lot of people like it", I question why they like it and I question that because nobody seemed to care about her lately before she puller her tit out.

[James Logan]

*edited following Stef's edit ;) No, we weren't having the same conversation -- my earlier posts were as a reply to part of Jeo4's first post, the part quoted in my first reply, not directly your post, Stef. My posts are actually slightly off-topic*

And again, to answer the Janet tit question -- call me an ignorant, but I'll just say because people like tits. That's why Madonna sells. That's why Britney Spears sells. That's why Kylie Minogue sells. That's why Janet Jackson now shall sell.

And please don't ask me why people like tits... :D

[stefanb]

Originally posted by James Logan
*edited following Stef's edit ;) No, we weren't having the same conversation -- my earlier posts were as a reply to part of Jeo4's first post, the part quoted in my first reply * Well, whatever... I replied to the ones where you quoted me. I assume when you quote me, that's a reply to me, no?

Originally posted by James Logan
And again, to answer the tit question -- call me an ignorant, but I'll just say because people like tits. That's why Madonna sells. That's why Britney Spears sells. That's why Kylie Minogue sells. That's why Janet Jackson now shall sell. Fine, but you're still 17 lightyears away from the topic of this thread. If she wanted to sell her tits, she could do that in Playboy. If she wants to sell music, she can sing on the radio. However, neither of those are what she's doing... She's using a tit to sell music, and the two aren't related. That's fine, but why are we buying her music because she showed her tit? The other people you named are equally relevant examples. I understand people buying music because they like music... I'm trying to grasp why people buy music because they like tits.

Originally posted by James Logan
And please don't ask me why people like tits... No, no, no... I understand that perfectly. What I don't understand is #3:

1. People buy tits when they like tits.
2. People buy music when they like music.
3. People buy music when they like tits.

:p

-S

[James Logan]

Ah, that, I'm not sure anyone can answer that. I guess people'd buy anything that suggests even by the slightest that it somehow implies sex...but why? I'm guessing the answer "because people are horny bastards" isn't gonna satisfy ya. ;)

[stefanb]

...but it's probably the closest we're going to get to the right answer. :p

[APzombie]

We need the British to build back some Beatle-esc pop stars...

[stefanb]

Originally posted by APzombie
We need the British to build back some Beatle-esc pop stars... Please... let's not give the Brits more credit than they deserve... These are the same people who brought us the spice girls.

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by stefanb
Please... let's not give the Brits more credit than they deserve... These are the same people who brought us the spice girls.

But also Pink Floyd, Beatles, Rolling Stones.

[zeppelin]

Originally posted by APzombie
We need the British to build back some Beatle-esc pop stars...

Amen.

I saw Janet Jackson on David Letterman the other night, and it was quite pathetic. She kept saying stuff like "I wouldn't have come if I knew we were going to be talking about this." How could she NOT know they were going to be talking about this? After this whole fiasco that really wasn't a big deal AT ALL, but people turned it into the biggest news event of the month, you think they want to hear you talk about your music? Or your career? Nope. If you're not talking about your breasts or your whacky brother, no one gives a damn what you say. Then there are those who, like me, don't care what she says even if she's talking about her breasts. I'm just really sick of the whole issue. It never should have been an issue in the first place. Why did the media give her what they claimed she wanted? "Well, she was just doing it for attention! What an evil woman!" Yea, and you gave her that attention! "Oh, it's just so bad. She's corrupting our youth. Look at this. Here, look again. Okay, now let's go into slow motion. Alright, now zoom in and freeze frame. This is unacceptable! We should not tolerate this! Okay, one more time. Just to let them know how truly bad it is. And how much of a cheap publicity stunt it was."

Does it surprise me that Janet Jackson is now the "Artist of the Month" and that her new album will probably sell huge? No. Not in the least. It's very typical of the media, and of the public. Sex sells, you know?

[echo_bravo]

A Canadien dude bashing American entertainment?!?!?! Are you serious?!

Thanks a lot for Avril Lavine and Celion Dion.

Dude, sure America has its share of shit stars. But Canada pumps out the worst shit EVER!!!!

Peace out

[James Logan]

Ah, national pride. Haven't seen that often in Schmoeland. ;)

[Nate6]

How the hell did a solid thread discussing Janet Jackson turn into some circus where we all insult each others' nationalities? Cool it down a bit, guys.

[krazy drako]

Paraphrasing something from South Park: The Movie.


"Come on now. This isn't the first time offensive entertainment has come out of Canada" said the American Interviewer.


"Now, now the Canadian government has apologized for Bryan Adams on several occasions." Canadian Minister of Entertainment.(I think thats what his title was.)

[sergiopauloferreira]

that's only there to prove that there is no thing as bad publicity!

the moral of the story is:

Talk good, talk bad, but talk about me!

[Damned Martian]

Originally posted by jeo4
Quite frankly, America is the source for most of the pop culture on this planet. I'll argue this, but only talking about what I know: Spain.

Spanish music groups sell more than American ones. Only huge stars like Britney get even near the amount of records people like Alejandro Sanz or David Bisbal sell. Proof: list of best sellers of this week in Spain:

1. Camela "10 de corazón"
2. Estopa "¿La calle es tuya?"
3. Marea "28.000 Puñaladas"
4. David Bisbal "Bulería"
5. George Michael "Patience"
6. Los Lunnis "B.S.O Los Lunnis "Nos vamos a la cama""
7. Eric Clapton "Me and Mr. Johnson"
8. Héroes del Silencio "Antología audiovisual (CD+DVD)"
9. Los Piratas "Fin de la segunda parte"
10. Guns N' Roses "Greatest hits"
11. Camarón "Alma y corazón flamencos"
12. OBK "Sonorama"
13. Norah Jones "Feels like home"
14. Fran Perea "La chica de la habitación de al lado"
15. Andy & Lucas "Andy & Lucas"
16. Bebo & Cigala "Lágrimas negras"
17. Black Eyed Peas "Elephunk"
18. La Oreja de Van Gogh "Lo que te conté mientras te hacías la dormida"
19. Andrés Calamaro "El cantante"
20. Café Quijano "Qué grande es esto del amor!"

That makes 5 foreign groups/singers for 15 Spanish ones.

In movies, I give you that, Spain is not as popular. But when you ask for quotes from movies that people (common people) have incorpored to their vocabulary, USA films seem to have disappeared. They're all from the (few) Spanish hits, like Torrente 1 & 2 or The Other Side of the Bed.

In books, the best sellers are mostly spanish-talking authors, though things like Grisham, Rowling and The DaVinci Code, for example, are also popular over here. Proof of this: list of best sellers for this week (just the authors, I don't find the translation for the titles):

1. Almudena Grandes
2. Antonio Salas
3. Dominique Lapierre
4. John Grisham
5. Juan Jose Millas
6. Dan Brown
7. Valerio Massimo Manfredi
8. Julia Navarro
9. Almudena de Arteaga de Alcazar
10. JK Rowling

Many americans? Not so.

As for TV entertainment, Spain is the king in Spain. In series, in humor entertainment... you can hardly find anything american as succesful. CSI and The Simpsons are succesful, but spanish series like Los Serrano, Ana y los Siete, Aqui no Hay Quien Viva or Cuentame kick their ass quite badly, almost doubling their audience. Alias was retired in the third episode due to low audience. We only have The Sopranos and Friends in cable, since no major channel wants them. Seinfeld? Who's that? A couple of years ago they tried it, but nobody saw it. Letterman, Leno? Ask anybody and they won't know who're you talking about. Same for Tim Allen or Johnny Knoxville. Here we have our own (succesful) entertainers and humorists, and if you come across anyone quoting a program or talking about something on TV, chances are it'll be one of them: Cruz y Raya, Crónicas Marcianas, Carlos Latre, El Informal (RIP), CQC (RIP), Santiago Segura, Los Morancos, Florentino Fernandez, 7 Vidas, El Club de la Comedia, etc, etc...


So, excuse me, but no, not "most" is american out there. We don't even watch the Superbowl, you know.


Originally posted by jeo4
And most of it is quite good.

What Logan said: not only yours, but any entertainment anywhere is mostly shit. You're not going to be the exception to the rule, sorry. I can't stand 75% of your comedians, for example.




BACK ON TOPIC

As for why people buy more something that has been on the news, two words: massive stupidity. People hear that TV is always talking about Janet, and they wonder what's all the fuss about. Then TV/radio starts playing more of Janet's songs. And some people that didn't know her or have forgot about her buy her album. OK so far. But not only that, there are some people that buy it thinking "is she that great to make this big bamboozle around her?", tehy buy it just to hear her. And there are other people that think it's the last trend, and buy it to be on it. It's a vicious circle: the more they talk about her, the more people are curious about her, and the more they keep talking about her. Curiosity is not usually an intelligent feeling. And mass curiosity is its retarded brother. Marketing agents know this, and try to build something around the stars to make media and subsequently people talk about them. As Groucho Marx said: "Let them talk about me, even if it's for good". They're a bunch of whores, and we're their faithful clients. Sad. True.

[jeo4]

I'll never agree with the notion that there is another nation on this planet that has done more for pop culture than America. And I mean everything from food to muscle cars to movies. I wasn't referring so much to music, but since we are on the subject, I can safely say that America is the primary source for Rock and Roll as well as R&B and Rap. As far as names bigger than Michael Jackson, I'll start with an American name (Elvis Presley) and end with a British group (the Beatles). Hell, Janet Jackson was more popular than he was before she even showed her tit on TV!

I will concede that nations have their own superstars and that they are probably more popular than American stars in their native countries. Non-English nations don't bridge the gap because of the language barrier. That's one reason U.S. shows aren't more popular there. And how many non-English TV shows do you suppose are on American TV? Really not many. Britain and Australia have indeed exported some of the best entertainment that America has seen, something that they should be proud of (Beatles, Stones, actors like Russell Crowe, directors like Peter Jackson). But nobody here can seriously deny that America is the number one exporter of pop culture when we are on a site that discusses movies, most of which are American releases. Out.

[krazy drako]

Originally posted by jeo4
I'll never agree with the notion that there is another nation on this planet that has done more for pop culture than America. And I mean everything from food to muscle cars to movies. I wasn't referring so much to music, but since we are on the subject, I can safely say that America is the primary source for Rock and Roll as well as R&B and Rap. As far as names bigger than Michael Jackson, I'll start with an American name (Elvis Presley) and end with a British group (the Beatles). Hell, Janet Jackson was more popular than he was before she even showed her tit on TV!

I will concede that nations have their own superstars and that they are probably more popular than American stars in their native countries. Non-English nations don't bridge the gap because of the language barrier. That's one reason U.S. shows aren't more popular there. And how many non-English TV shows do you suppose are on American TV? Really not many. Britain and Australia have indeed exported some of the best entertainment that America has seen, something that they should be proud of (Beatles, Stones, actors like Russell Crowe, directors like Peter Jackson). But nobody here can seriously deny that America is the number one exporter of pop culture when we are on a site that discusses movies, most of which are American releases.

Amen to that jeo4. If people were to stop and compare trends and whats popular they would notice that we are all pretty much the same in most countries who have been influenced by Western Culture in some way or another. The biggest influence coming from North America.

[Unicron]

Oh we are just slaves to anything popular

just gives it a few years to hit our shores :D:D

[sergiopauloferreira]

i agree that the U.S.A. is a country with great pop influence worldwide, maybe the biggest. wich is debatable is wich influence is that and if it's as good as you guys think it is. Personally, as much as i love the country and think that not everybody has the same behavior or approach up there, every time i see a guy call the U.S.A. of "America" like if guys owened the entire continent makes me wanna puke.

Wisdom and modesty, that's something you guys could pick up with alot of nations.

but you know what, fuck all that political talk, let's talk about movies and praise the artist that make our favorite hobbie better, wherever country they have come from.

(and bash the ones who deserve too):D :D :D

[jeo4]

Originally posted by sergiopauloferreira
i agree that the U.S.A. is a country with great pop influence worldwide, maybe the biggest. wich is debatable is wich influence is that and if it's as good as you guys think it is. Personally, as much as i love the country and think that not everybody has the same behavior or approach up there, every time i see a guy call the U.S.A. of "America" like if guys owened the entire continent makes me wanna puke.

Wisdom and modesty, that's something you guys could pick up with alot of nations.

but you know what, fuck all that political talk, let's talk about movies and praise the artist that make our favorite hobbie better, wherever country they have come from.

(and bash the ones who deserve too):D :D :D

Agreed. It should be noted that the word "American" is often used to describe people from the U.S. by other nations. Great post though, man.

[krazy drako]

Originally posted by jeo4
Agreed. It should be noted that the word "American" is often used to describe people from the U.S. by other nations. Great post though, man.


Hence why I put North America in my post. Canadian actors/writers, especially comedic ones, make a huge impact I think.:D

[Damned Martian]

There are two different angles here:

US pop culture is the ntional pop culture that has gone further, the more exported one.


BUT


That doesn't mean that it's the most important in each and every country.


At a worldwide level, compared with the influence of other countries' pop cultures, it's the most important. But if we narrow the focus to each country, there are many places (like Spain) in which it's NOT the most important. Take the case of India: 70% of what they see in cinema is national product.


AND

Another thing is "Is US's pop culture the best or just the most expanded?".

I think saying that your pop culture is the best denotes two things:

1) that you don't know enough of teh rest of pop cultures.

2) that you're too indulgent on your own pop culture.

There's a lot of shit. Everywhere. That's a fact (I don't like this expression, but it's too true not to use it). And people buy it anyway. This brings us again to the main topic of the thread:

Why do people buy the shit that they're fed with by the media? Even if it's not exactly related with its true nature? (this is, gossip selling music, or scandals selling a film)


My answer to this: people don't like to think in terms of enjoyment. Most of them are too busy in "important" things to really work in their taste. So they buy anything that sounds on the radio. They just select what they like the most from the popular choices instead of expanding their horizons. Now, the question is, who selects what's going to be popular and what not? It's something that only depends on how much money the companies use to promote something? (this includes buying time of emision, and buying charts' positions like in every popularity music list, a la MTV top20). I haven't worked properly in an answer for this yet.

[jeo4]

I completely disagree. For one thing, we have artists from other nations making big waves here and have been for forty plus years, including the Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, U2, INXS, Men At Work, Pink Floyd, the Scorpions, etc. Actors include Jim Carrey, Paul Hogan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Monica Bellucci, and many more. And of course there are tons of directors, comic talents, etc. All of whom are welcome with open arms.

We aren't so absorbed in ourselves that we can't embrace other sources of entertainment, but to say that we don't know enough of the rest of cultures is completely wrong. The next time you're in the states, visit New York City and have a look at true diversity.


We have our fair share of imports, too, but the U.S. has been more influential on pop culture far and away. I'm not trying to force a consensus here, but I'm pointing out that historically, this country has long been the most prominent influence on pop culture, including music, movies, cars, clothes, etc.

As for being "self involved" in my own pop culture, as Sefanb puts it, pot/kettle/black. People are so involved in cutting the U.S. down that they see nothing good coming out of America. And it's bogess. Which brings me back to this presumtive topic that American entertainment is wrong for downing Ms. Jackson then lauding her with attention and lapping her up as "Artist Of The Month".

Well, like anywhere else, we have a shitty media full of greedy newshounds with nothing better to do than air other people's dirty laundry. And that sucks. But it has little to nothing to do with the majority opinion of U.S. citizens. Most people I work with, talk to and share opinions with agree that Janet Jackson brought this whole thing down on herself, she did it deliberately, and both she and the media have capitalized on it. America isn't this giant bastion of hypocrisy and self-centeredness that many people assume it is. It's stupid to assume that most Americans are frothing at the mouth over this mess months after it happened. Most people could care less what she did and they all point out the same thing that is seen in J-Lo, Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera...they are using the attention to sell records. And if they need to expose more and more skin, then it seems obvious that they have little to no confidence in their own talent. End of rant.

[krazy drako]

Amen number 2 for jeo4!

[Damned Martian]

You've misunderstood me in two things, jeo4:

1) When I talk about how USA is involved in its own culture and is not aware of other's, I'm not referring to that. I'm talking exclusively about national POP cultures. I know many artists have gone there and triumphed. But the thing is that most of the diversity you're talking about is not foreign artists that are also big in USA, but foreign artists that have gone to USA to make their careers, thus being included in teh US pop culture. Like Jim Carrey, for example. On the other hand, all of the groups you've mentioned have one thing in common: they sing in english. You hardly absorve anything that's in other language. That's not saying you don't absorve anything, that's just saying that you do it in a lesser extent than other countries do. Tell me just one spanish/latin-american music group, singing in spanish, that has been popular in USA. Maybe there is, but mostly among the latin community. Is it also popular among the rest of communities? Again, I'm not saying, as you've implied, that you're close-minded or anything like that. I'm just saying that you tend to look primarily to your own national POP culture (which is made in part by absorving many other cultures).


2) When I was talking about "pop culture everywhere is mostly shit", I was saying exactly that. Every single pop culture of every nation has a large amount of shit. I'm not talking just about US here. And I'm not denying either that there's also a lot of great, great artists. But the point here is "if there's shit that sells, why does it sell?". That's the most intriguing question.



Out.

[jeo4]

I concede on both points, DM. It can be quite a surprise to see what is considered entertainment in any culture. I think that every country has it's good and bad. Taste is all subjective. And you are correct. The language barrier is something the U.S. hasn't seen past yet.

[James Logan]

I think Stefanb is pulling his hair out by now wondering why we've spun his topic so off. :) And I say "we", because, well...I had one goddamn heck of a huge part in it.