Can communism still work?

[JoBlo]

Yet another greasy topic to get things going in here. What do you all think of COMMUNISM? What's good about it? What's bad about? Why did it falter so....?

Is there any way to bring it back or was it always just a utopian fantasy that looked "good" in theory, but would never really work in practice?

[bmain77]

I'm not sure I would want to live under a communist government, but at the same time in a perfect world I think communism could work. The problems come in, as with most any form of government, when leaders get a bit too greedy.

The basic idea is that the state should distribute everything evenly, but thats never likely to be the case. That was one of the major reasons for the Russian Revolution. The Romanov family was living it up with their partying and so on while everyone else was starving and barely getting by. So they all said the hell with this and led by Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky took over. But those at the top got greedy. Plus, Stalin in my opinion made Hitler almost seem sane and Trotsky who seemed like a cool dude but was kicked out and eventually murdered. This is just my quick little explation why things got messed in Soviet Union, but really it shows how things tend to go wrong in any system of government.

Wow I guess I did actually learn a little something from Animal Farm :D

[bowieee]

Human Nature will always be the monkey wrench in the Socialist Dream. Communism on paper looks great but throw in Human Beings and their lust for greed and a few individuals will always fuck it up. I wish it could work though, the world would be a much better place.

[JCR]

Nah, communism was an interesting idea, but it ignores the central law of economics: human wants are unlimited- bluntly, people are greedy, never satisifed with what they've got, they'll always want more, and this is completely true. Communism is unworkable because of this.

[KcMsterpce]

Communism is a wonderful concept, and it was made with the best interests of the people in mind. The problem is the human factor:
People don't want the exact same thing as everyone else. It's not just the greed of the leaders, but of anyone that wants what other people don't have. I also believe that those who have a more important job deserve more money than say, a mime.
Communism breeds corruption, unfortunately.
Take Vietnam for example. As soon as you arrive at the airport gates, the authorities will harass you to no end if you're a Vietnamese person. It doesn't matter if you're from Canada, America, returning from another country... they're going to expect a monetary compensation. I'm a white guy, so they didn't bother me. But I have a friend who's a Vietnamese-American, and the customs officers kept him in line and didn't let him into the country without paying them. He spoke to them in English the whole time, and got pissed off at them. They put him aside and kept him from passing, telling him that his paperwork wasn't in order. He said, "You don't have the right to do this to me, I'm an American, etc..." yelling at them in English the whole time, and they decided to just wave him by.
But how many people are stopped, and charged maybe 100,000 Vietnamese Dollars (about $6.00 American) to pass through? Who keeps that money? The customs officer. It's the same with the police. They'll pull someone over and charge them 100,000 dong before they can go on their merry way again. The cop puts that cash in his pocket. Oh, and the average Vietnamese person works for $150.00 a month. So, six bucks isn't a very small deal.

I won't even go into North Korea. I have some friends who went over there to look for remains of MIA Soldiers during the Korean war... well, you don't need me to tell you how extreme things can get when the country is led by unbelieveably tyrannical leaders. Eek!
I don't think Communism is bad. It just doesn't work.

But there ARE perks to being a Communist ;)


http://www.soviet-empire.com/images/propaganda/communism_join_party.jpg

[Grim H.]

Whoo!!! Politics...whoo!

*Ahem*

But seriously...

I suppose I'll only be putting what others have said. Communism workds...in theory. We've seen what happens when it is applied. As KcMsterpce has already said, it's the human factor that causes it so much trouble. It sounds fabulous when your country is impoverished after serving as ground zero for World War III, but after you've built everything up and the middle class develops, people will start wanting more, and more importantly, different things.

And I agree, North Korea is creepy. I saw a documentary on it and there is almost nothing there. Look into it and you'll see what I mean...

[Morgana]

I think communism can work, but only on a scale where the population is very small and people basically don't own anything. It's been many years since I've taken social anthropology, but communism apparently worked for the Bambuti tribe of the Congo. In modern societies with big populations though... no, it can't work. Like many have already said, human nature isn't in harmony with the concept of sharing, some people will always be greedier than others, and some will be more ambitious than others.

I'm old enough to have lived behind the Iron Curtain for a few years in what used to be Czechoslovakia, and communism is actually something that forced my family to defect. Very few people were priviliged, if they were, they most certainly were members of the communist party. Communism was drilled into everyone, material possessions were few, and personal, political and religious freedoms were even fewer. I think what is essentially a great theory was turned into total shit by human nature itself. Communism and human nature just don't go together.

[Jon Lyrik]

No.

It's because of human nature. If everybody on Earth was nice and flexible, sure, it could work. But humans by nature are pretty horrible. And especially if you have a tyrant like Stalin running a communist state, it's horrendous.

Communism isn't a bad idea on paper. It promises complete social equality, equal pay, and I think a guranteed job. But the loopholes in these ideas were abused by all the communists states so far, or the ideas were abandoned altogether.

Let's focus that on the former Soviet Union:

Social equality? Yep, you get that. If you're religious and the government knows it, you'll get bulldozed or thrown in a prison camp in some winter wonderland in Siberia. That's social equality for ya.

Equal pay? You get that too, because the entire nation will go poor.

Guranteed job? You get that too. But let's say you get a job you'll hate, and you complain. Boo-hoo, too bad. Either do it, or the Men in Moscow will kick your ass.

North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, China? Don't get me started on the problems there, or I'll be up all night typing this.

[bob]

I really love KCMsterpiece's posts: Look to the right, and you get intelligent political commentary.

But look to the left, and that amazing ass.

It's really a great way to liven up the proceedings in this forum.

Anyway, I'm a big communism fan as far as the theory goes, but really, the "all for one and one for all" deal doesn't work with humanity.

[TheDeadWalk]

When you're starving, communism is heavily appealing. It's people gathering around the flag, working together as a team. Group farming, grub stubs, equal distribution, etc. It's a dream for countries in extreme poverty.

However, its not stable in the long term. It never will be because we are human, "the grass is always greener on the other side", greed, and of course the thought of Big Brother and just how much of a slice of the pie he is getting. Mao Zedong's communism backfired on him and eventually led to his people starving to death.

So short term? It can work. It can be used as a tool or strategy to get horrible countries back onto their feet before babying them into capitalism. The downside of the short term is that communism tends to spread very quickly, and before you know it there is a growing fear that an entire continent could become communist and start trying to sway you and your neighbors into it as well.

Long term its horrible. It leads to oppression, starvation, an angry revolts. Though Karl Marx's communism has never been attempted, I still believe the result would be the same.

I also believe that short-term communism could be a positive solution to slowly bring the Iraqi people into capitalism.

[quoth_the_raven]

I really can't add much beyond whats already been stated...whilst a great theory, communism has never really worked in practice. Humanity just doesn't seem to be cut out for it...

[Grebdron]

It would work better than what we've got now.;)

But Bush certainly fits the bill to be a "great" communist leader.

[jeo4]

I'm pretty much in agreement with what others have said here. It works for impoverished nations in the short term, but it is only a temporary fix for a premanent problem. It may rally citizens around one cause, but it doesn't stimulate competition, it doesn't reward exceptional performance, and it provides no real opportunity for citizens to advance in life. The Soviet Union tried it and it just didn't work for them. It would be interesting to see how other nations would handle it, if we could expect honest and impartial results.

[TheDeadWalk]

Does anyone believe that old saying:

"If you're not a communist before the age of 21 you have no heart. If you're still a communist by the age of 40, you have no brain."

[quoth_the_raven]

Originally posted by TheDeadWalk
Does anyone believe that old saying:

"If you're not a communist before the age of 21 you have no heart. If you're still a communist by the age of 40, you have no brain."

If that were true, I'd be clinically dead ;)

[blankpage]

It really depends with the ideas we're dealing with. I don't want to be doing something that I completely disagree with. I mean, on paper it sounds really nice, but it wouldn't work. There's always going to be that group that will rebel against it, and then we have a huge problem. I don't think it could work, but it would be interesting to try it.

[KcMsterpce]

Originally posted by blankpage
I don't think it could work, but it would be interesting to try it.

OK... Let's do it! What's the extrension for WHITE HOUSE again? I forgot. Hardy har har! :D

[jeo4]

Originally posted by TheDeadWalk
Does anyone believe that old saying:

"If you're not a communist before the age of 21 you have no heart. If you're still a communist by the age of 40, you have no brain."

I'd never heard it before, but I think it's at least somewhat true. We start off wanting that utopia where everyone works together and helps one another. As we get older, we realize it just doesn't work that way in a free society, even if it would be better in some ways.

[badberry]

Originally posted by TheDeadWalk
Does anyone believe that old saying:

"If you're not a communist before the age of 21 you have no heart. If you're still a communist by the age of 40, you have no brain."

I always thought it was a Churchill quote:

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."

Maybe there's multiple variations out there...

[loner]

"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. How do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."


Everyone here more or less seems to be saying the same thing: communism seems great on paper but can't work because of human nature. But even in theory, I personally don't see anything at all that is appealing about communism. It portrays it's utopia as humans acting like nothing more than robots. When it comes down to it, it's basically saying that a person's life and his work exists soley for the sake of others.....for "society". Now that makes complete individual freedom impossible.

Every person has a right to their own life and to live it how they see fit.....not how others see it.

[Raymond Babbit]

Well, I think some parts of it, like the whole "classless system" thing, would be nice, but the problem is that it gives leaders too much power, and as we all know, power corrupts. Personally, I think socialism sounds better.