R rated movies/memorabilia targetting children

[cstroman]

I have a question and wonder if it's just me or if the rest of you think this is fine, etc.

With alot of movies that come out that are "R" rated (which means they are not meant for children) there are alot of TOYS made (I'm not talking about the Kill Bill collectible figurines, but like G.I. Joe type toys advertised for children) which target children.

Ex. When Starship Troopers came out there were actual Toys made FOR children (not marketed as collectible items) and targetting children. Yet the movie is FAR from being a flick someone in their right mind would show a 3 year old child.

Is it right or wrong to purposely target children with toys made for adults?

As a few other theoretical questions:

Would it be wrong to make a toy called Dave the Dildo or Vickie the Vibrator and target children with it? What about Stew the talking Chewing Tobacco Can?

Would that be wrong?

What if the KKK make action figures with pull strings that said racist remarks/comments and came with burning crosses and hangman's nooses.

Would that be wrong? Would you have a problem if someplace like Walmart decided to start carrying them? (not likely I hope)

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by cstroman
What if the KKK make action figures with pull strings that said racist remarks/comments and came with burning crosses and hangman's nooses.

I'm sure the redneck kid in school would like those...

I remember finding a fucking NAIL PENDANT that was online, memorbilia for The Passion. What next, a kung-fu Jesus action figure? A Duke Nukem-like game after Jesus was resurrected and he goes out opening a can of whoop-ass on the Romans that tortured him and he shouts phrases like "Nobody fucks with the Jesus!" a la The Big Lebowsky?

[cstroman]

I wholeheartedly agree.

I mean if you are going to make a Jesus action figure, don't make one who is sitting on a cross complete with exposed ribs and blood that pours out when you squeeze him.

At least the Kill Bill Action Figures were targetted only to Adults and said so on the Packaging.

[Grebdron]

I think it sets a dangerous precedent to insinuate that we should not allow people to make or market these things to children.

A company can make all the Starship Troopers action figures it wants, and show commercials during Sponge Bob for all I care. If the parents are involved in tehir children's life to a significant degree, then they can explain to snot-nosed Johnny that they are possibly not appropriate for him, but he can have them when they've decided it would be appropriate.

Personal responsibility. Not enough stress is put on personal responsibility.

Don't let the TV babysit your kid.

[cstroman]

So in your opinion we should allow Tobacco makers to market to children and that it should be the parents responsibility to teach their children to not smoke.
:rolleyes:
I suppose then in your opinion the government is set up to allow and protect anything that attacks the structure of the family, illegal activity and the promotion of amoral society.

So on one side we have parents, families, and communities and th MAJORITY struggling to protect themselves from outside influences, and on the other, you have YOU and the government that you think should be set up in opposition to those and actually PROTECTED in their attack of the majority.

You're a real winner.:rolleyes:

I think that the government should actually ASSIST the majority in leading the life they wish. Otherwise you have a governnment at odds against the overwhelming majority. And when that happens you have a coup and that government is replaced.

It's a government of the people, not the person.

You're thinking sets a dangerous precedent because it boils down to "anarchy".

That or you should just move to Canada instead of trying to turn the US into Canada.

[Grebdron]

You've got serious issues. What the fuck? Did I piss in your cornflakes in a drunken stupor?

No, I want the government to stay completely out of morality issues. It isn't the fucking government's job to legislate morality.

I assume from your post that you don't believe in personal responsibility. So it's McDonald's fault that America's fat, right?

[quoth_the_raven]

cstroman-

Why not? Did your parents not teach you anything about right/wrong?

Why does the idea of parental responsibility piss you off so much?

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by cstroman
So in your opinion we should allow Tobacco makers to market to children and that it should be the parents responsibility to teach their children to not smoke.

And yeah, Joe Camel ruled.

You don't believe a parent should teach their kid not to smoke? You think it's Bush's job?

[cstroman]

You don't believe a parent should teach their kid not to smoke? You think it's Bush's job?
I think it's everyones job to teach kids not to smoke and to support kids not smoking in every way we can.

Don't you?

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by cstroman
I think it's everyones job to teach kids not to smoke and to support kids not smoking in every way we can.

Don't you?

Nope. I believe I bear no responsibility in teaching your kid not to smoke.

That's your job.

I choose not to have kids. I have availed myself of that responsibility. If and when I choose to procreate, it will be my and my wife's job to do that. And nobody else's.

[cstroman]

I choose not to have kids. I have availed myself of that responsibility. If and when I choose to procreate, it will be my and my wife's job to do that. And nobody else's.

So, You have no problem with the School Teacher bringing cigarettes to school and offering them to the students, including your child, then requesting they sit and watch cigarette commercials with Spongebob Squarepants talking about how he smokes and it is so cool, and then reading a story about how stupid kids are who don't smoke and how parents who teach their children to not smoke are wrong and to be disobeyed. Then after school I follow your child as he/she walks home and call them all sorts of cursings and offer them "money" or "toys" if they will smoke.

When that child smokes, it will be your failure?

Wow. There are some people you just HOPE don't claim they're Americans because it makes you sick to even think you have that one thing in common with them. Mind if I teach your kid that in school? About how you're wrong and to not listen to you?

Here's a big "L" for ya! :rolleyes:

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by cstroman
So, You have no problem with the School Teacher bringing cigarettes to school and offering them to the students, including your child, then requesting they sit and watch cigarette commercials with Spongebob Squarepants talking about how he smokes and it is so cool, and then reading a story about how stupid kids are who don't smoke and how parents who teach their children to not smoke are wrong and to be disobeyed. Then after school I follow your child as he/she walks home and call them all sorts of cursings and offer them "money" or "toys" if they will smoke.

When that child smokes, it will be your failure?

Wow. There are some people you just HOPE don't claim they're Americans because it makes you sick to even think you have that one thing in common with them. Mind if I teach your kid that in school? About how you're wrong and to not listen to you?

Here's a big "L" for ya! :rolleyes:

I'd debunk this, but I'll leave that to Grebdron. I don't want to add more gas to the fire.

All I'd say is that you should teach your kid to refuse to light up in a situation like that (unless they have a gun to their head or something).

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by cstroman
So, You have no problem with the School Teacher bringing cigarettes to school and offering them to the students, including your child, then requesting they sit and watch cigarette commercials with Spongebob Squarepants talking about how he smokes and it is so cool, and then reading a story about how stupid kids are who don't smoke and how parents who teach their children to not smoke are wrong and to be disobeyed. Then after school I follow your child as he/she walks home and call them all sorts of cursings and offer them "money" or "toys" if they will smoke.

When that child smokes, it will be your failure?

Wow. There are some people you just HOPE don't claim they're Americans because it makes you sick to even think you have that one thing in common with them. Mind if I teach your kid that in school? About how you're wrong and to not listen to you?

Here's a big "L" for ya! :rolleyes:

How could you possibly glean from my post that I would think it's okay for a teacher to actively promote smoking or to offer cigarettes to kids, for god's sake? Are you fucking blind? Show me wehre I said that. Please.

My opinion is that it is none of the government's fucking business, nor their fucking responsibility, to tell a company what it can make and market. Period. And I don't want my fucking tax dollars spent on furthering this fundamentalist regime called the Bush Cabinet's policies. I don't want that. I want them to stay out of our fucking lives.

Now, keep insulting me. You're digging your own fucking grave.

Try engaging in polite disagreement for a change. It'll lengthen your life.

[Jon Lyrik]

Cstro:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0001MMGC2.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[cstroman]

Listen, if you don't want to be a part of the American Community, you're fee to leave.

I'm sure Canada would love to have a few more Anarchists in it. Especially for the next time a Trade Summit comes to town.

BTW this country is called the UNITED States, not the INDIVIDUAL PERSONS, that means a community.

There is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and SHARED COMMUNITY RESPONSIBILITY.

If you lack the later, don't expect the fire department to come rescue you when you're stuck on the 10th floor. Or expect me to search for your child who was kidnapped. Heck I guess we should strip all the "Child Missing" posters from any public government buildings as well because it's not OUR responsibility to find that child and some people are just too stupid and selfish to want to be bothered to even look at the posters right?

So when some rapist has beaten you senseless and is taking advantage of your wife and I happen to walk by with a baseball bat.....

I'll make sure to say "Oh so sorry, didn't mean to disturb you. Sir, ma'am you'll have to get yourself out of this because it's your responsibility, not mine. Good form by the way." and walk away, not report it and do nothing, and I would bear no responsiblity for having the ability to have done something, but doing nothing, because.....

It's your personal responsibility, not mine.

Wow. Some humans really are de-evolving back into apes. Let's all sit on our branches while King Kong beats the living crap out of you...heck we can even cheer him on if we want because I'm not hurting you, he is. If I give him a club and tell him where to hit you, it's not my responsibility because it's INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBLITY.

HAhhahahahahaha. (don't know whether to cry or laugh because it's all so pathetic)

[Jon Lyrik]

Oh. My. God.

What does this have to do with memorabilia? Am I the only person who notices this topic is swinging away from the point?

[Grebdron]

You make some incredible leaps. You've turned this personal for some reason. But I won't bow to your level, and insult your intelligence. I don't need to. The evidence is there.

The great thing about the country THAT I FOUGHT FOR, is that I am allowed to disagree, and disagree vigorously, with the officials in power. Illegally obtained power, but power nonetheless. If you love this country so much, get off your ass and do something for it. I did. Where were you? Why have you not enlisted in the military, to go spread peace and kill innocent Iraqi's?

Excuse me, by liberate, I meant murder.

You seem to lack the backbone to stand up for what you believe in. Some would say that preaching your support for this president and his policies yet doing nothing to support them would make you a hypocrite. I would not say that, because I fought for your right to spew ridiculous inanities from the comfort of your trailer's den area. But just know that some may think that.

[cstroman]

How could you possibly glean from my post that I would think it's okay for a teacher to actively promote smoking or to offer cigarettes to kids, for god's sake?

Hmm You said,

Nope. I believe I bear no responsibility in teaching your kid not to smoke. That's your job. I choose not to have kids. I have availed myself of that responsibility. If and when I choose to procreate, it will be my and my wife's job to do that. And nobody else's.

So you're trying to have your cake and eat it too! You're trying to have morals without morality. :confused: And those are based on???

Your basis is jello. You are saying the government should stay out of whether a child smokes or not and that it's a parents responsibility (so no laws outlawing it by YOUR standards). But you have a problem with a teacher (employee of the state/government) to come to school dressed as Joe Camel and hand out cigarettes.

And you justify that....HOW again?

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by cstroman
Hmm You said,



So you're trying to have your cake and eat it too! You're trying to have morals without morality. :confused: And those are based on???

Your basis is jello. You are saying the government should stay out of whether a child smokes or not and that it's a parents responsibility (so no laws outlawing it by YOUR standards). But you have a problem with a teacher (employee of the state/government) to come to school dressed as Joe Camel and hand out cigarettes.

And you justify that....HOW again?

Where in all that did I say that it should not be illegal for a teacher to provide a child with cigarettes? I missed that as I was rereading my posts.

And if you're calling morality that shit spewing from the bible and Dubya's and Falwell's mouths, yeah, I can live without that.

[cstroman]

The great thing about the country THAT I FOUGHT FOR, is that I am allowed to disagree, and disagree vigorously, with the officials in power. Illegally obtained power, but power nonetheless. If you love this country so much, get off your ass and do something for it. I did. Where were you? Why have you not enlisted in the military, to go spread peace and kill innocent Iraqi's?


Sorry, the country you fought for doesn't exist, unless you fought for Canada. but you are trying to turn this country into it. What this country IS and what you WANT it to be are two different things thankfully.

And fortunately, what you want is not what the majority want. And if it came down to that type of division, you would be in the minority and if push came to shove, you'd be on the wrong end of the stick. And judging by the division in this country, it's a heading there quick thanks to you.

And I'm not going to go risk my life to preserve the rights of others to destroy my rights. Or for you to impose YOUR beliefs on me or the rest of the country.

You fought for a country where the overwhelming majority want to keep the pledge, as is, in schools and are willing to fight to keep it that way.

Are you in agreement with that country?

[JCR]

Originally posted by Grebdron
I think it sets a dangerous precedent to insinuate that we should not allow people to make or market these things to children.

A company can make all the Starship Troopers action figures it wants, and show commercials during Sponge Bob for all I care. If the parents are involved in tehir children's life to a significant degree, then they can explain to snot-nosed Johnny that they are possibly not appropriate for him, but he can have them when they've decided it would be appropriate.

Personal responsibility. Not enough stress is put on personal responsibility.

Don't let the TV babysit your kid.

I don't know Grebron, there's a bit in Harry Knowles book that talks about how a memo went round the studio (sony I think) saying I still know what you did last summer should be marketed at 9-11 year olds in the usa as they made up a sizeable chunk of it's prequel's audience. I agree with you to an extent about parent's taking charge, but it's hard against a multi million $ marketing machine- it shouldn't happen.

Damn, I can't think of a more instant way of killing my credibility on these boards than admiting I've read Knowles book. Pretend I never mentioned it. ;)

[cstroman]

Where in all that did I say that it should not be illegal for a teacher to provide a child with cigarettes? I missed that as I was rereading my posts.

You said it's NOT the governments place to teach kids not to smoke. What the heck do you think the laws making it illegal ARE? Hello that's the Government saying Kids SHOULDN'T SMOKE.

Did that fail to make a connection between the two?

You want the government to tell kids they shouldn't smoke by law, but you don't want the government to tell kids they shouldn't smoke.

Okay.....

[Jon Lyrik]

http://www.bookstore.umn.edu/include/lock.jpg

All in favor, say "aye"!

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by cstroman
You fought for a country where the overwhelming majority want to keep the pledge, as is, in schools and are willing to fight to keep it that way.

Are you in agreement with that country?

The overwhelming majority of southerners during the civil war supported continuing slavery. I can only assume you feel the same, since you side with the overwhelming majority on all these issues.

[cstroman]

yeah, he's getting schooled, better close the thread quick or make it related to movies.

Just replace everything I said about smoking with Pornography (ie. like in movies).

Same thing.

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by Jon Lyrik
http://www.bookstore.umn.edu/include/lock.jpg

All in favor, say "aye"!

I'm in favor. I'll just continue posting in politics, wehre we discuss differences of opinion civilly.

[cstroman]

I'll just continue posting in politics, wehre we discuss differences of opinion civilly.

Yeah, calling bush a "fucking religious nutbag" and the morals of the Bible, Bush and Falwell "shit" is real civil. Again, your opinion.

Again, maybe it is in your world, but I like to talk about reality.

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by cstroman
Yeah, calling bush a "fucking religious nutbag" and the morals of the Bible, Bush and Falwell "shit" is real civil. Again, your opinion.

Again, maybe it is in your world, but I like to talk about reality.

See, this is exactly why this thread should be locked...

[outsyder]

Originally posted by Jon Lyrik
See, this is exactly why this thread should be locked...



Good point. I don't really appreciate the instances of Canada-bashing.

[TheDeadWalk]

Cstroman, from what I've mustered you seem to carry some radical viewpoints. Anyone that doesn't seem to think as you do (which you feel is the majority), is ultimately wrong. They are wrong, they shouldn't have a different opinion than you, because you are speaking for the 'moral majority' of America. And as the spokesman for this 'moral majority' of America, you feel that those that don't fall in tune with your beliefs should leave America.

This country was founded on multiple opinions and viewpoints, as well as the ability to have freedom of speech and expression. Your viewpoints seem to come off as cultural relativism, which is, if not borders facism.

What should we all wear tomorrow Cstroman, flip flops or sneakers?

[Grim H.]

Originally posted by Grebdron


No, I want the government to stay completely out of morality issues. It isn't the fucking government's job to legislate morality.




That is 100% true. 'Tis why the Prohibition Act is referred to as "The Noble Experiment."

As far as the toy thing goes, I don't have a problem with "R" movies making kids' toys. An "R" rating is subjective anyway. That could vary depending on 1). The country the movie is being rated in and 2). Who is rating it.


The company that produces the movie would know whether or not kids would still see it, regardless of the rating, and whether it's appropriate to market toys for them. I had toys from several R-rated films as a kid, (The Terminator, RoboCop) and I had even seen those movies.

What is the government going to say. "No, you can't give these toys to children because the movie they're relating to is rated R."

Remember that the MPAA is not law and is not affiliated with the FCC. The MPAA is a guidance system for parents. Does R-rated mean children shouldn't see it, or that parents should just be cautioned? I'd like to hope for the latter.

As far as the Cigarette tobacco/propoganda toy, no parent would be stupid enough to buy that for their kids, so the whole idea would flop. No tobacco company would be stupid enough to try such a thing.

Also, as for cigarette commercials being on during the Spongebob marathon, that's where the FCC is legally allowed to step in and put a stop to that. And if it's on cable? Fine, the advertisers who pay to allow the programming on the air would pull the plug if cigarette companies were allowed into the advertising bin. Nickelodeon wouldn't want to 1). Lose all of its other advertising and 2). Listen to a barrage of angry parents complaining to them. Again, nobody who works at Nickelodeon would be stupid enough to allow tobacco advertising on the network.

Same goes for more adult-fare R-rated movies like The Passion...I somehow don't think bloody Jesus action figures would be flying off the shelves at Christmas time.

It's all up to the parents. If they think a toy is suitable for their child, fine; it's just molded plastic anyway. It all depends on the parents. Some parents think that Power Rangers are too violent. Me, I saw The Terminator several times as a kid, and had some toys, and I turned out alright...the government can't tell parents what action figures to buy. Rant Over...

http://www.stuff-o-rama.com/jesusactionfigure.jpg
He comes with karate-chop action!!!

[Dignan]

: Some of those Starship Troopers toys mentioned kicked a hell of a lot of ass. The standouts were the electronic bug(built to scale along with the rest of the Troop figures) and the micro machine toys were awesome too.

And for the record, I played with these as a youngster and turned out juuuust fine. Me and my Dad loved watching this movie.

Thanks pops.

...just thought I would throw that out there....

[Grim H.]

More...

On the issue regarding Tobacco and children's television, straight from the FCC...



"During children’s programming, both broadcasters and cable operators must abide by certain advertising time limits and restrictions in order to protect children. These limits apply to programming originally produced and aired primarily for an audience of children 12 years old and younger. The rules state that in an hour program, the advertisements are not allowed to exceed 10.5 minutes on the weekends or 12 minutes during the week. The commercial time limits do not apply to non-commercial educational stations because these stations are prohibited from airing commercials."

So, you see...the FCC can limit marketing on children's television shows. If the FCC sees fit to protect children from say, cigarette advertising, they can very damn well legally do it. Besides, when was the last time you actually saw a commercial for a toy from an R-rated movie on Nickelodeon?

The reason the toys seem to be marketed towards children? The FCC can regulate public communications, not what a store decides to carry.

As far as the "Dave the Dildo" and "Vickie the Vibrator" toys, those could be considered obscene or profain, and can be removed from public domain.

Remember that context has a lot to do with how the government judges things. Take a RoboCop action figure. In and of itself, it's just a robot action figure. You don't have to associate it with the movie at all, because it's been taken out of the context of the movie.


Oh boy, am I tired...

[cstroman]

Good points all. I am not saying the government should step in and restrict the toys (heaven's no since there is no government involvement in the ratings system) just that I wondered if it was wrong to market those to children or if it was inappropriate decision making on the part of those who give the "go" to put them out there.

Also the FCC stepping in is government involvement, which from what I gather, some on this forum are against because Laws are Morals and Ethics on a community scale, and those people are against it.

I for one think the government is the servant of the people. I feel that it should do it's best to help people be the best they can, not fight against them.

I too think that a parent is the primary person to instill morals in their children, but as has been proved by the lack of that by some on this board (or even justification for their views) the government and laws are set up more to INHIBIT or IMPEDE those parents from doing just that. I think that government should do what it can to assist that not hinder that.

It should be hard to be a bad parent. Liberalism has made it the opposite. It's easier to be a bad parent (because laws support that) and harder to be a good parent.

If a kid turns out bad, we blame the parents but we also have to blame ourselves and/or society for "failing" that kid as well.

Due to "free speech" good old Klebold and Harris could write and say whatever they wanted due to liberalism and the ACLU would be right there defending their right to do so. Unfortunately they talked themselves right into killing alot of innocent people.

It's late and I'm rabling as well...incoherently so just a few more things:

No, I want the government to stay completely out of morality issues. It isn't the fucking government's job to legislate morality.

That is 100% true.
That's 100% false in anyting other than an Anarchy. And that's an absolute fact.

If not for morality, murder wouldn't be illegal. If you doubt that ask. Wrong/Right, Good/Bad, harm/benefit are all MORALITY words. Science is cause and effect, but morality is what determines whether those effects or causes are "right" or "wrong".

If I take a woman's new born baby and cut it's head off. What determines whether what I did is "Right" or "Wrong"? Science doesn't provide an answer all it says is due to what I did, the baby is no longer alive.

My question for any amoral liberal here is "Who are you to tell me that what I did is right or wrong and force your morals on me?"

Whether you are a religionist or anti-religionist when it comes to the MORALS/LAWS of this country, both the conservative right and liberal left have equal footing to stand on and in my opinion equal right to press their views on the other.

[C-Desecration-]

I'm not really sure what the problem is. Starship Troopers should not be seen by kids. They could have toys that are perfectly fine to play with (let's not get into some 'kids shouln't play with toys that shoot each other', or something, because that's beside the point). If a kid snags a starhip troopers toy does it say "GO SEE THE MOVIE THIS SATURDAY!!" on the back of the box? Then there's no problem (and if it does, then there is).
And if the kid wants to see the movie it isn't exactly hard to explain things to him/her.
It's not that they're marketing an R film to kids by making toys of it. It's just more ways to make money. Toys are toys. If you give some kid a cool looking gigantic bug and a ninja turtle, he or she isn't really going to notice the difference. It's not like "Oh! This bug is from the starship troopers movie that opens August 22nd! And look, it includes free tickets!"

[cstroman]

I actually agree with what you are saying C.

[TheDeadWalk]

I for one think the government is the servant of the people. I feel that it should do it's best to help people be the best they can, not fight against them.

See, that's the whole issue. And there really is no right or wrong, politicians have been fighting both sides since the thirteen colonies were created. People have fought for limited and full national government rule forever, and they will continue to do so. To think one or the other is only wrong depending on the eye of the beholder. I prefer a lax government myself. The American government is somewhere in the middle, not trying to be too controlling, but at the time have power and impact on its people. If this were a full government nation, my girlfriend wouldn't be in debt with outrageous hospital bills, the government would have handled all of that, and we'd both only bring home about 2/3 of the paycheck we bring home now.

That's 100% false in anyting other than an Anarchy. And that's an absolute fact.

Its not no government, just as I stated above. It's limited government. A government that governs us, not parents us.

My question for any amoral liberal here is "Who are you to tell me that what I did is right or wrong and force your morals on me?"

That is where we fall into crimes that are "Mala en se" and "Mala prohibita". There are certain actions (crimes), that are philosophically, sociologically, and psychologically wrong. They are considered wrong and evil on all merits. (Murder, Robbery, Rape)

Then there are those that are considered wrong by the government, simply because the government deems it necessary to be wrong. Such things as speed limits on roads, and the fact that I can't buy beer or liquor on Sundays. These are the debatable laws because they cannot be empirically defined as being wrong on all merits.

[TheDeadWalk]

The website said it best when it said

"There seems to have been a slight problem with the database."

Triple post.

[TheDeadWalk]

^ What he said.

[Beeblebrox]

Well, the "majority" of posters in this thread are against government legislation of morality, and since the "majority" is apparently always right, then anyone in support of such legislation is obviously wrong.

...and should apparently move to Canada or something. :eek:

[Beeblebrox]

Well, the "majority" of posters in this thread are against government legislation of morality, and since the "majority" is apparently always right, then anyone in support of such legislation is obviously wrong.

...and should apparently move to Canada or something. :eek:

[Saruman]

Here's the bottom line:

If you don't want your kid playing with this shit then don't buy it for them.

Parents raise kids, not business corporations.

[Shockwave]

...and should apparently move to Canada or something.

...dude, Cananda rocks.

Its true! Ive hears stories! AMAZING stories!

[Shockwave]

If a kid turns out bad, we blame the parents but we also have to blame ourselves and/or society for "failing" that kid as well.

cstroman, sometimes its the kids fault as well. Ive seen instances where the kid has grown up with loving parents that would have never given up on the kid, surrounded by friends and brough up in a grea t community BUT the kid still just goes bad.

Same way in reverse, ive seen kids grow in in shitty envoirnments, but they rise above it and become better.

What im saying is, u cant always play hot potatoe with morality. Sometimes the kids gotta take some of the blame also.

Mistakes are a part of life, its if u learn from it that matters. For the child and the parent.

In the end, u can only fail yourself and no one else.

[Draccoca]

Well first thing first QUIT WITH THE CANADIAN BASHING it's boring and offensive saying that we are anarcists and such the government is trying to control us more then the US is.

Second as a parent of two kids i know for a fact that it is mine and my wife's duty to raise our kids properly and teach them right from wrong and if they should start smoking or drinking or drugs then it's our fault and not anyone's elses because we failed in teaching them that it's wrong

Thirdly selling and marketing junk from r rated movies has been going on for years, remember sticker books, collector cards and such and most of us turned out normal. So it doesn't really bother me

[cstroman]

Well first thing first QUIT WITH THE CANADIAN BASHING it's boring and offensive saying that we are anarcists and such the government is trying to control us more then the US is.

I think the canada bashing will end the day the Bush bashing, the religion bashing, the republican bashing, the michael moore baching, the bill o'reiley baching, the al franken bashing, the al gore bashing, the jim kerry bashing, the barbara streisand bashing, the US bashing....etc. etc. etc.

STOPS.

Until then, have some tolerance for other peoples opinions. I allow anyone here to post whatever they wish as vulgar as it may be and reserve the right to disagree.

I don't think just because I'm in the minority in a sea of liberal lions means you have a right to bash and because here it's the "majority" thing to do, makes it right.

After all, that the liberal minorities argument right back at them.

[Saruman]

I now see that there is a reason you were banned from the politics forum. Sheesh!

[quoth_the_raven]

Originally posted by cstroman


Until then, have some tolerance for other peoples opinions.




Thats rich coming from the persons who's spent two day bashing greb at every possible opportunity...

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by cstroman
Until then, have some tolerance for other peoples opinions.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

I allow anyone here to post whatever they wish as vulgar as it may be and reserve the right to disagree.

That's mighty nice of you. Allowing people to state their opinions? How utterly magnanimous.

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by Draccoca
[B]Well first thing first QUIT WITH THE CANADIAN BASHING it's boring and offensive saying that we are anarcists and such the government is trying to control us more then the US is.

At least in my case, my comment was meant ironically.

I have nothing against Canada. In fact, I wish we had your health care system.

[cstroman]

I would say I am as guilty of personal attacks and blanket statements and offensiveness as both of you.

If you think YOU can BASH and other can't, then what does that make you?

Nice thing for me, is you have more posts to weight against you.

I will now post quotes of the various ATTACKS by the both of you:

Greb:

Ditto. And there's only been one occurence of assholery, which is an amazing statistic.
Personal Attack.

Blanket Hate Statements:

Official List Your Ultimate Piss Off(s)!

1. People

2. Babies

3. Toddlers

4. Pre-teens

5. TEENAGERS

6. 20 Somethings

7. 30 Somethings

8. 40 Somethings

9. Old people


Thank god for the internet and anonymity. I fucking hate people. I hate rude people. I hate nasty people. I hate self-absorbed people. I hate people trying to look "cool." I hate people dressing like fucking idiots because they think it makes them look different. When they're standing next to their fucking idiot friends who look exactly alike. I hate the people who hang around the mall. I hate the people who "hang around" anywhere. I hate people who are pierced and tattooed excessively. I hate people with fucked up hair colors. I hate people with chain wallets. I hate people wearing overly baggy clothes. I hate people saying "like." Like, you know what I mean? I hate stupid people. I hate loud people. I hate aggressive people. I hate people that fight. I hate people who shoot. I hate people who wear "colors." I hate gangs. I hate "involved" people. I hate tree-huggers. I hate hunters. I hate protestors. I Hate People Who Type In Weird Ways To Try To Draw Attention To Their Know-Nothing Posts. I hate people who stop right in front of you, or right in the middle of an aisle in the grocery store. There are other people around, assholes. I hate people who refuse to assimilate. I hate "packing." When people insist on creating a piece of their home country here. We don't need "Little Manila", "Little Saigon", Little Seoul", "Little Armenia", "Little Tokyo", etc. Assimilate, get along with your neighbors, treat people well, and this will be a nicer place to live.

I hate people.



Wow! I think that pretty much broke every rule and he's still around.

I'm still hating. Same thread. Shuold I keep going, or.....



Anne Heche is the OPPOSITE of gay. Anne Heche is an opportunist and carer whore. Anne Heche was fucking Ellen DeGeneres to further her career. Anne Heche is a fucking nutbag.

That's "civil" for you.
So's this:
Chalk up one more spoiled cunt.

Personal Attack:
It's still a twat name.

Oh, snap! You just got F'd in the A. (South Park)

Greb replying tot he request for a politics forum:
I'd have to avoid a politics forum like the plague, unless they suspend the "respect other posters" rule.:rolleyes:

Personal Attack at another poster: therealjohng
Fucker.

Should I go on?

And Quoth, you want me to dig a little deeper into your civility and tolerance?

[cstroman]

BTW, I don't appreciate your personal attack against me by calling me an "asshole".

If I should be banned for supposed "attacking" then the door should be closing on you as well.

And YES I expect to be treated equally on the board, but somehow I doubt the other posters will say anything about it.

:rolleyes:

[Draccoca]

Originally posted by Beeblebrox
At least in my case, my comment was meant ironically.

I have nothing against Canada. In fact, I wish we had your health care system.

No problem there and our health care system sucks

[MacReady]

That's it, fuck this shit I'm reporting this thread to the mods. Let's see how they handle it.

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by MacReady
That's it, fuck this shit I'm reporting this thread to the mods. Let's see how they handle it.

If I may, and at the risk of going off topic but with only the desire to be helpful:

There's a level of frustration here from everyone that goes far beyond mere disagreement on the issues or politics. I know that I tolerate a bit more from people I agree with than those I don't, but what we have here in this particular poster is way beyond that. He's abusive, hypocritical, disrespectful.

And as is quite obvious here, he has no idea what he's talking about. And I don't mean that in the sense that I disagree with him. I mean really. Look at how he consistently mischaracterizes liberalism, conservatism, and a host of other topics. It's mind-boggling. He's already on my ignore list, but I catch glimpses of what he has to say when other people quote him and it's really just par for the course.

How he got to be on my ignore list (and is still the one and only person to ever be there on Joblo) is very indicative of his behavior here. Utter ignorance but the inability to admit it, own up to it, or otherwise believe his opinion might not be as knowledgable.

I work in the entertainment industry. I've written and directed and edited. I've run sets. And yet this guy continued to argue with me about what goes on on movie sets despite a considerable and obvious deficiency in knowledge about the issue. This was not some debatable topic, like taste in movies, but more or less factual, technical (it involved what a particular person's responsibility was on the set and in editing). And yet he just kept on and on, arguing relentlessly against the three most knowledgable people in the Filmmaking forum. He was point blank wrong, but he genuinely felt that he was right, despite his own considerable lack of knowledge against our first hand experience.

This is the kind of person you're dealing with. You are not involved in a "discussion" in the sense that you are going back and forth with ideas or opinions. You are talking to a brick wall, like a religious zealot but on everything. And, IMO, you'd be far better served and this forum would be a calmer place if you just do what I did and Ignore him.

[MacReady]

Sorry, but why should we let the rules slide for this guy and use the silent treatment on him? I don't get it. Not everybody's gonna put him on their ignore list, and therefore he'll be able to insult people here for as long as he wants to. I say the are the rules are the rules. It's kinda like seeing somebody rape a woman you love then punishing him by not speaking to him. I just don't really understand how this is better than simply banning his ass so that he can't infuriate or offend anymore people.:confused:

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by Beeblebrox
This is the kind of person you're dealing with. You are not involved in a "discussion" in the sense that you are going back and forth with ideas or opinions. You are talking to a brick wall, like a religious zealot but on everything. And, IMO, you'd be far better served and this forum would be a calmer place if you just do what I did and Ignore him.

I'm not going to put him on ignore. Never have, never will. Plus, he's unintentionally funny.

But I have stopped replying. It's too easy.

[TheDeadWalk]

Cstroman I think was raised on that strong metaphor that "It takes a village to raise a child." That only seems to be in smaller towns and communities, where everyone won't stay out of your business. You are deterred from buying a 12 pack of beer in those communities because your afraid your neighbor will call your boss at home and tell him that he thinks you're an alcoholic.

By the way, if I give you a dollar will you quote all of my shit onto the table? I'd have a laugh riot.

Hint: Search for Nicole Richie.

This just makes me miss the "schmoes most quotable quotes" thread.

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by cstroman
Should I go on?

And Quoth, you want me to dig a little deeper into your civility and tolerance?

Not one of those is a personal attack aimed at anybody on this board. therealjohng knows it was a joke. But nice try, taking it out of context.

And the assholery is a behavioral issue. Not a personal attack. I never even mentioned of whom I was speaking.

And if you want to try to take on Quoth...good luck.

[Beeblebrox]

...

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by MacReady
I say the are the rules are the rules. It's kinda like seeing somebody rape a woman you love then punishing him by not speaking to him. I just don't really understand how this is better than simply banning his ass so that he can't infuriate or offend anymore people.:confused: [/B]

To bring this back on topic ;), I am opposed to government (Joblo) legislation of morality when a local solution can work just as well if implemented right. He didn't rape anyone. He's only really guilty of being verbally abusive, insulting, and willfully ignorant.

Should he be banned? By the rules, probably. But I personally have an aversion to banning except as an absolute last resort. Maybe cstroman has long ago stepped over that line, but I think ignoring him (whether you do that with an ignore list or just stop resonding) is just as effective. Believe me, I've seen people leave forums after no one responds to their vitriolic and offensive posts.

[cstroman]

Beeblebrox, please don't attack me. It's against the rules. If you can't see the attacks in your post, then I really can't say anything positive about it and will leave it at that.

You're attacking. Nuff said.

A deadwalk you are making negative generalizations about me and attacking me, which is again, against the rules.

And Geb, you called me an asshole, so either use the edit button and retract your statement, or be equally eligible for banning.

You guys crack me up. Seriously, but I guess I better not say that because it's "attacking"


:rolleyes:

And for the record, beeble lost that arguement because editing wedding videos and shooting family movies is not Professional Filmmaking.

Not that he'll see it, but for some reason, he's still commenting and attacking me.

:rolleyes:

[quoth_the_raven]

Originally posted by cstroman


And Quoth, you want me to dig a little deeper into your civility and tolerance?

You could do, but it would be a waste of your time. Theres a difference between intolerance and strong opinions, and I know what side of that line I am on however you would choose to misconstrue my words. If I were rude or intolerant, would I have made it to over 7000 posts? I doubt it...

My civility? Come on cstro, there is a sense of humour on this site. We can get away with a little mutual piss-taking here and there.

if you need another reason, they trawling back through my posts would really be quite boring for you.

[cstroman]

Theres a difference between intolerance and strong opinions, and I know what side of that line I am on however you would choose to misconstrue my words.

So you are intollerant of my opinions?

Oh and I wasn't attacking, my words were just "miscontrued":rolleyes:

My civility? Come on cstro, there is a sense of humour on this site. We can get away with a little mutual piss-taking here and there.

Funny how you only say that about others, but not "piss-taking" about those who disagree with you such as myself.

Oh and Did a search on yours and didn't have to go past the first page to find where you were just as guilty (if not moreso) than me.

[quoth_the_raven]

cstro I think you managed to read my post without really reading it.

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by quoth_the_raven
cstro I think you managed to read my post without really reading it.

I'm telling you, QTR, you're banging your head against a fucking wall. All you're going to do is get a concussion. If you're lucky, some of your blood might stain it, but that wall ain't moving.

[cstroman]

Again, please no attacking.

[quoth_the_raven]

Originally posted by Beeblebrox
I'm telling you, QTR, you're banging your head against a fucking wall. All you're doing to do is get a concussion. If you're lucky, some of your blood might stain it, but that wall ain't moving.

I feel you may just be right there beeb. can you pass the asprin please?

[Sugar Magnolia]

Originally posted by quoth_the_raven
can you pass the asprin please?

*Hands QTR some cyanide pills in an aspirin bottle*



Muahahaha...

[cstroman]

Geb, clarify of WHOM you are speaking.

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
*Hands QTR some cyanide pills in an aspirin bottle*



Muahahaha...

Reported!

Personal attack!;)

[quoth_the_raven]

Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
*Hands QTR some cyanide pills in an aspirin bottle*



Muahahaha...


anything to dull the pain ;)

I'm going back through the thread to see if I can find the exact moment it got blown off course...

[Sugar Magnolia]

Originally posted by quoth_the_raven
I'm going back through the thread to see if I can find the exact moment it got blown off course...

The moment you entered...



Oh you got served...

[quoth_the_raven]

Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
The moment you entered...



Oh you got served...


You trying to get banned?;)

[cstroman]

The moment you entered...

Careful, they might ban you. Especially if you say something their opinions don't jive with.:rolleyes:

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
The moment you entered...



Oh you got served...

Reported!

Personal attack.:D:D

[Sugar Magnolia]

Originally posted by Grebdron
Reported!

Personal attack.:D:D

Not again!


*flees the crime scene*

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
Not again!


*flees the crime scene*

You've left a trail. The dogs will find you.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Ya gotta help me. I won't make it in the big house. I'm too pretty. Plus, I'm such a butterfingers. I won't last two seconds against that soap...

[cstroman]

No, he "fleed" the crime scene not "flead" the crime scene. There were no "fleas" harmed in the making of this thread.

EDIT: yeah, bad joke, I know.

[Draccoca]

Joblo or any mods end the madness and lock this thread

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by Sugar Magnolia
Ya gotta help me. I won't make it in the big house. I'm too pretty. Plus, I'm such a butterfingers. I won't last two seconds against that soap...

***Waits for Bubba to enter thread***

[cstroman]

Maybe if you say something bad about Canada it will get locked, because you know you can't say that or have that opinion and post it.;)

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by Draccoca
Joblo or any mods end the madness and lock this thread

I've reported. Just waiting for them to notice.

[JoBlo]

This is fuckin' pathetic. Are we in 3rd grade or something??

Thread closed because it's turned into a childish back and forth between folks who should know better (I suspect you're all adults here?)

There are AT LEAST 2 people who are about to get banned from our board, so I would reconsider all future posts unless you remember that 1) WE ARE A MOVIE BOARD--- MOVIES, MOVIES, MOVIES and 2) personal attacks of any kind, direct or indirect, are not tolerated here.

I've received a ton of emails from other schmoes about you guys (that's right...I don't have personal grudges myself...you're actually ANNOYING others as well... ;), and honestly, I could do without the headaches.

There are close to 15,000 other members who are here to enjoy each others' company...if you don't like each other, work it out via email and leave the rest of us to discuss movies.

Thanks for understanding.