Fake Patriotism

[bankholdup]

Alright, folks, this is my rant about what I consider fake patriotism.


9/10/01: A man sit on his front porch in front of his bare house with his dog.
9/11/01: Tragedy strikes.
9/12/01: The same man goes to Wal-Mart and buys an American flag.


Why didn't this man have a flag on 9/10? I think it's complete bullshit that people all of a sudden bought the US flags to decorate their homes and cars. I don't have statistics or anything, but I saw it with my own eyes in my own neighborhood in my own hometown. It's sad that it takes a national tragedy like that to open America's eyes and come together. Some people, I'm tellin' ya, they disgust me. Why can't people be close to one another all the time? Why does it take the brutal murders of Americans for that to happen?


Story:

I drive to my friend's house on a regular basis. I remember a few days later (9/13, maybe?) I was driving and noticed this huge American flag in front of this guy's house. I thought back and remembered I had never seen it there before. It frustrates me that people were basically saying "Oh, God, look what's happened to our nation! I better run to the Dollar Tree and get myself a 5x8 banner to put in front of my house!" How many of you didn't have an American flag up before 9/11, but put one up shortly afterwards?

And these FDNY hats and shirts everyone is wearing...give me a break! Look, I've been to New York before, and it's a very cool city. Now, just one visit, sure, but I am guessing it's safe to assume the FDNY did a great job before September 11th, as well? It's great that they want to support the fire department, but why just now after the tragedy, and not before? Why now are people sporting these hats?!


Chew on that for a while, and express your views on what I consider to be fake patriotism, and your views on the subject at hand.


"United We Stand"

[flowrchild]

I totally agree with you. People loved their country more after 9/11, because tragedy struck and it was a way of joining together. But it's not genuine and before long, the same people waving their flags were insulting the country again.

It reminds me of how people will bash someone their entire lives, and then they die, and suddenly they were the greatest person that ever lived and there is nothing but nice things to say about them.

Lame.

There is nothing wrong with having patriotism, but it shouldn't just be sparked by a huge sweeping disaster.

[RicochetShaw]

I disagree and agree with what you're saying here.

I agree with the fact that it IS sad that it took a national tragedy to bring out the showing of patriotic symbols in Americans, but I definitely don't think it's "Fake" patriotism. I'd venture to say most of us love our parents, and most of us probably have a comfortable relationship with them. But we don't go around telling them giving them gifts all the time, or saying how great they are (I know we probably say "I love you" and such, but those are really common gestures). But still, we love them. Now let's say your mom or dad was in a car accident and ended up in critical condition at the hospital. I'm sure that'd bring out your love for them much more, and you would show it more, especially during that time.
Same with Americans and their love for their country, I think most Americans already were Patriots, but they just didn't show it off as much until 9/11 happened.

[flowrchild]

Originally posted by RicochetShaw
Same with Americans and their love for their country, I think most Americans already were Patriots, but they just didn't show it off as much until 9/11 happened.

I understand what you're saying. Just from my experience, it seems like many people are fair weather patriots. One second they love the country, the next second they hate everything it does. It's often circumstantial based on what is going on at that moment.

I'm not sure where you live, but bankholdup and I are from the NY/NJ area so we saw a LOT of this "fake patriotism" first hand after 9/11. The same people who blasted the country constantly had flags all of a sudden waving on their front lawns.

[Dignan]

It's disgusting how American society has whored its patriotism through merchandising since 9/11. Seriously, my History teacher has her entire room decked out in uber patriotic merchandise, and not only that-- I have come to the conclusion that the woman doesn't own one bit of clothing that isn't red, white, and blue. It's ridiculous.


And before I forget: I don't care how patriotic "I'm Proud to be an American" is, it still sucks. Hard.(I don't know if that has much to do with this thread, I just wanted to lob that out there.)

People should express there patriotism where it really counts, which sure as hell isn't on a fucking t-shirt.

And I agree with the wise words of Shawwy as well.

[SLAW]

I agree with Ricochet. People don't show patriotism 24/7. It does unfortunately take a tragedy to get people to show it. I think that saying what's on your mind and being active about it is patriotism. I don't think it only takes waving a flag and T-shirts.

Now this conversation could open up to a few things. We could discuss why many Americans think patriotism means going a long with everything your country may be doing (even if it might be harmful). Why should we not critisize the president in a time of war (even if we think he's doing things that are harmful)? And waht does the word "patriotism" mean to everybody?

[notchreturns]

The most patriotic thing anyone can do is to question anyone in power, i.e. the government, big business, your boss, etc.

In my opinion, that's what America should be all about.

Now, about the flag thing... ehhh, I would call it fake patriotism as much as... a lack of emotion. Before 9/11, I rarely saw US flags in front of peoples homes or on the back of cars, t-shirts, etc.

Nowadays, it's quite common.

Think if someone insults your family. You may not like them, have a bad relationship, whatever, but their still your family and blood and you'll defend them against any action or words.

Most Americans do love this country. I say MOST because the insane racist nutbags are out there and would like nothing more than to overthrow the govt., but other than that, I'm quite sure the majority does care, have an opinion, whether you agree or not and would like to see what's best for their country.

It's just one of those things. A human error, fuck-up in the lab of genes, whatever... we ignore things, think twice or don't think at all, especially the ones in charge.

[Raymond Babbit]

I'm glad someone finally created a topic on this. I've been saying the same thing since 9/11. It always seemed kinda false to me too. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but simply waving a flag after a tragedy does not make you patriotic, there's a lot more to it than that.

To me, it also seems there's a lot more name-calling since 9-11. People think if you admit the country has done anything wrong, you don't love the country. I consider this false patriotism too. I think that sometimes you have to love something to get it to change and point out its mistakes.

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by flowrchild
The same people who blasted the country constantly had flags all of a sudden waving on their front lawns.

I constantly bash our country, flowr. But I also love my country. Patriotism doesn't mean blind support. The great thing about this country is that I am free to bitch to high heaven when I disagree about something.

[C-Desecration-]

The problem is that 9/11 didn't cause people to embrace America as a nation.
It gave us an ego. These flags? They aren't "I love my country" in a kind, self-embrace sort of way, but more touting it, screaming "I love my country", in such a way that's it's more that they're flaunting their feelings than acting on them. As is obvious I'm not really sure how to express what I mean . . . uh . . .
Okay, scratch what I said, I think I know how to articulate it better--what 9/11 should have done was make America closer. And it did. But we didn't become closer in the way a family does when a member dies. We became closer as a gang does when they're threatened.

This patriotism that 9/11 stirred is both defensive and offensive.
It should be neither.

[jeo4]

I agree that it should be every citizen's right to discuss the flaws of a government openly and honestly, with facts to support the case, not partisan politics. Slaw brought up a good point with the question "What is patriotism and what does it mean?"

Patriotism means working from within the system to make changes and improve the quality of government in a system. If a country welcomes active participation and opposing opinions as nations such as the U.S. and Britain do, then my idea of patriotism is active participation in the processes. That includes voting, lobbying, voicing your opinions and writing to representatives in your area to share your concerns.

[BubbaStrangelove]

I agree there was some certain annoyance with the sudden american flag trend that swept the country. That goes with any fad, and this flag thing was definately a fad.

My only question, though, is why is that a bad thing? RicochetShaw is right, and scores another basket for laying it out like that.

If anything, the only real complaint is why weren't people more spirited before, not that they were afterwards.

An interesting fact about the NYFD hats - well, those are sort of like the FBI hats and stuff. This one guy was arrested locally for wearing one of those FBI hats, charged with impersonating law enforcement. The guy was tried, and got off. Recently he was killed in Iraq.

The guy had to fight for his right to wear a hat honoring the government, then goes off and dies for his country.

That's patriotism.




Err - actually the case never went to court. The charges were dropped, and the deputy reprimanded. Still a cool story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5161015/

[flowrchild]

Originally posted by Grebdron
I constantly bash our country, flowr. But I also love my country. Patriotism doesn't mean blind support. The great thing about this country is that I am free to bitch to high heaven when I disagree about something.

I agree with you 100%. Patriotism doesn't mean blind support at all. But I noticed an attitude switch after 9/11, where all of a sudden many people were GIVING blind support to the country. No matter what shitty thing America did, it was beautiful, because it was America. I think only recently people have started to realize all the flaws of the war and start to question it and feel deceived. But there was a long period of time where I remember feeling like people would support the USA in anything it did because we were reunited over a tragedy, and that kind of mentality I can't agree with.

[JohnTheHenchman]

Originally posted by Grebdron
I constantly bash our country, flowr. But I also love my country. Patriotism doesn't mean blind support. The great thing about this country is that I am free to bitch to high heaven when I disagree about something.

You said it, man. This statement is probably one of the few things I actually agree with you 100 percent on.

We had a flag in front of our house for years before 9/11.

[TheDeadWalk]

During tragedy and times of war, citizens will always "Rally around the flag." It happens when we feel threatned I suppose.

small, very trivial example:

When David Letterman did his 'Late Night' show in London, he was specifically told "No jokes about the Queen, or ANY of the royal family." (paraphrase)

Even though many British folk might make cracks at the royal family, the Parlament or Tony Blair, they will tend to get aggrivated when foreigners do. Same with Americans, Canadians, Mexicans, etc. The citizens will get offended immediately.

American police are badgered as 'pigs', but when they started dying trying to help out during the 9/11 attacks due to a foreign terrorist attack, many of the same slandering people decided to stick up for them.

[Grebdron]

Originally posted by flowrchild
I agree with you 100%. Patriotism doesn't mean blind support at all. But I noticed an attitude switch after 9/11, where all of a sudden many people were GIVING blind support to the country. No matter what shitty thing America did, it was beautiful, because it was America. I think only recently people have started to realize all the flaws of the war and start to question it and feel deceived. But there was a long period of time where I remember feeling like people would support the USA in anything it did because we were reunited over a tragedy, and that kind of mentality I can't agree with.

This is the biggest example of where Bush has failed not only the US, but the world.

Immediately post 9/11, we had nearly worldwide support and sympathy. And had Bush made the right choices, we could still enjoy that today.

But no, he chose to wage a false war in Iraq, rather than targeting the terrorists. In less than two years, he turned universal support into universal loathing and mistrust.

Kerry in '04.;)

[bob]

We didn't have an American flag before, we don't have one now.

[BakeTheMooCow]

What is the deal with patriotism anyway?

You have no control over what country you are born in. So why is there an extreme social pressure to love that country? Why is there such a bad connotation on the word "unpatriotic"?

[Neesh]

Originally posted by BakeTheMooCow
What is the deal with patriotism anyway?

You have no control over what country you are born in. So why is there an extreme social pressure to love that country? Why is there such a bad connotation on the word "unpatriotic"?

It's about having a little fucking GRATITUDE for the fact that you were born in AMERICA, and not one of, oh, about 150 other countries in the world, where your QUALITY OF LIFE would be SHIT. But here you are, in Chicago, IL, sittin back, eatin' doritos, drinking a Bud, watching Pulp Fiction and logging on to JoBlo.com to chat with other human beings about various issues. Pretty fucking nice life, eh ?

Travel around the world sometime. Then you MIGHT have an understanding of what PATRIOTISM is. You might even be proud to be an American.

:)

[Neesh]

Originally posted by bankholdup
I think it's complete bullshit that people all of a sudden bought the US flags to decorate their homes and cars.

Youve got a few problems. Dont hate me for saying these things to you, I'm sure youre not a bad guy or anything, but you have a fucked up perspective on things. Here is my opinion.
There's about a billion things wrong in this world, but "fake patriotism" aint one of 'em.
You dont understand what patriotism is. No need to get into semantics, because I totally see where youre coming from. Patriotism isnt something thats supposed to be flaunted by Americans every single day of their life. Patriotism in one sense is love of, and devotion to one's country. That's not something you need to VISIBLY show every day of your life. I like the comparison other schmoes have made to losing a loved one. People all show up to the funeral, they all cry.... someone might not have even really liked that uncle who just passed away, but they will shed tears anyway, if they are a decent human being. Are they "fake tears"? Are they "fake emotions"? How can a natural, pure, raw emotion be "fake"? Someone might hate many things about America (there sure are plenty of things to hate...), but because someone felt so emotionally moved to display an American flag after 9/11, is no reason to lambast them.
LOVE manifests itself in many ways. And none of those ways are wrong or bad. Youre blindly passing judgement on people, drawing a line in the sand, and putting all the people who bought a flag, or put a sticker on their car, on the other side of that line and saying they're BAD. No dude. You dont even know anything about those people.

The day after 9/11 I walked down to the Hudson river, a couple of blocks from where I live, and looked directly at one of the saddest and most tragic things I will probably ever see in my life. There was a cloudy haze over ground zero, and an extremely pungent smell in the air. And at that same time, I'm looking around me, seeing all of these people wearing T-shirts with flags on them.... black, white, Chinese, Polish, Middle-Eastern, Hispanic, hot chicks with nice asses - I was seeing BEAUTY! All of these people, and we had at least ONE thing in common - LOVE for our country. I didnt care if they were displaying flags the day before, or would be displaying flags weeks after - even if that moment was fleeting, it was THERE at that time (and for many weeks and months after...) and it was BEAUTIFUL. If someone sees "bullshit" in something like that.... well, thats just sad. Looking around and thinking about "fake patriotism" was probably the furthest thing from my mind - in fact I'm sure that notion didnt even exist in my mind. Even in hindsight, I cant find anything bad or bogus about it. That is my perspective.

After 9/11 my mom sent me a little American flag pin, and I stuck it on my backpack. Good thing you didnt see me eh, or you'd have labled me a "bullshitter" just like everyone else that you saw that you didnt know. I just dont see how anyone can find NEGATIVITY in something like displaying an American flag after a great tragedy.... yet some people will inevitably reach for such things. I think you are just bothered by things which you dont understand. But theres no crime in that.

"Fake patriotism" would be something like, a guy proclaiming to be a proud American, always has a flag waving at his house, but doesnt pay his income tax, has a second identity in another state, doesnt pay child support, commits corporate fraud, etc., etc., etc. THATS a bullshitter.

[BakeTheMooCow]

Originally posted by Neesh
It's about having a little fucking GRATITUDE for the fact that you were born in AMERICA, and not one of, oh, about 150 other countries in the world, where your QUALITY OF LIFE would be SHIT. But here you are, in Chicago, IL, sittin back, eatin' doritos, drinking a Bud, watching Pulp Fiction and logging on to JoBlo.com to chat with other human beings about various issues. Pretty fucking nice life, eh ?

Travel around the world sometime. Then you MIGHT have an understanding of what PATRIOTISM is. You might even be proud to be an American.

:) I certainly like America a lot. But I wasn't born here. I was born in one of the 150 countries of the world where the quality of life is shit. So is it alright for me to hate my country then? Or should you only love your country when its rich and powerful?

[bankholdup]

Originally posted by Neesh

You dont understand what patriotism is. Patriotism isnt something thats supposed to be flaunted by Americans every single day of their life. Patriotism in one sense is love of, and devotion to one's country. That's not something you need to VISIBLY show every day of your life.

Yeah, I don't know what patriotism is...right, gotcha. What makes me sick is that people are expressing their patriotism by cashing in on a national tragedy. "Better buy a t-shirt or I'm a bad person!". Why the fuck are people insisting on buying goddamn merchandise when this happens? "Oh, look, honey, a national landmark just went down and another's on fire. Quick, rush to Wal-Mart and get me one of 'dem t-shirts that has a dog wearing an "I love NY" t-shirt! They're the cutest!" I see people in my hometown (south Jersey) wearing these "I love NY" shirts. Why are they just now sporting this crap? I'm not saying they have to "sport patriotism" every day of their lives, but these are the same goddamn people who were saying "New York City is so filthy, and the people are arrogant and don't help or anything", yet after 9/11 they're all for supporting it. If you're going to support something, make it lifetime, not just after something bad happens.


I like the comparison other schmoes have made to losing a loved one. People all show up to the funeral, they all cry.... someone might not have even really liked that uncle who just passed away, but they will shed tears anyway, if they are a decent human being. Are they "fake tears"? Are they "fake emotions"? How can a natural, pure, raw emotion be "fake"?

That's not my point. Right now, I am going to talk about people from Jersey. Probably 98% of the people I know don't know anybody who was in those towers; the percentage is higher, guaranteed, but I'll stick with 98% for now. They didn't know anyone, yet are showing their support to all those civilians and firefighters and whoever. If it's their uncle, it is someone they knew, and were related to by blood. They were apart of that person. They're not apart of New York (and please don't give me that "We've all got NYC in us" bullshit), it's not them.


LOVE manifests itself in many ways. And none of those ways are wrong or bad. Youre blindly passing judgement on people, drawing a line in the sand, and putting all the people who bought a flag, or put a sticker on their car, on the other side of that line and saying they're BAD. No dude. You dont even know anything about those people.

I see what you mean, but see below...


The day after 9/11 I walked down to the Hudson river, a couple of blocks from where I live, and looked directly at one of the saddest and most tragic things I will probably ever see in my life. There was a cloudy haze over ground zero, and an extremely pungent smell in the air. And at that same time, I'm looking around me, seeing all of these people wearing T-shirts with flags on them.... black, white, Chinese, Polish, Middle-Eastern, Hispanic, hot chicks with nice asses - I was seeing BEAUTY! All of these people, and we had at least ONE thing in common - LOVE for our country.

Perfect. How do YOU know it was "LOVE"? You DON'T. You're blindly passing judgement (gosh, that sounds familiar). You assume these people love the country. As far as you know, it was just them trying to fit in and be excepted (they are minorities, after all). People without faces (hot chicks with nice asses) that you probably don't see as much as you may want to coming together because of a tragedy. That, my friend, is a very strong definition of "bullshit". Maybe YOU had the true love for your country, but you CANNOT be 100% sure (although you probably think you can, because you're from NYC).


I didnt care if they were displaying flags the day before, or would be displaying flags weeks after - even if that moment was fleeting, it was THERE at that time (and for many weeks and months after...) and it was BEAUTIFUL. If someone sees "bullshit" in something like that.... well, thats just sad. Looking around and thinking about "fake patriotism" was probably the furthest thing from my mind - in fact I'm sure that notion didnt even exist in my mind. Even in hindsight, I cant find anything bad or bogus about it. That is my perspective.

Well, geez, that's a "fucked up" perspective :rolleyes:. You can't see anything bad or bogus because you don't want to. You don't want to open your eyes and have a different perspective on things...can't imagine why. Maybe because you're in the city is because fake patriotism was the farthest thing from your mind. But, and even though I am in "New York, Jr.", I saw fake patriotism. I saw a goddamn lot of it, too.


After 9/11 my mom sent me a little American flag pin, and I stuck it on my backpack. Good thing you didnt see me eh, or you'd have labled me a "bullshitter" just like everyone else that you saw that you didnt know.

I'm really glad you thought this part out. THINK before you talk, fella. If you're a hardcore New Yorker (which I assume you are), I wouldn't have labeled you a bullshitter. You're in the city, so you know a lot about what there is to know. You're more aware and have probably been living there for longer, so I wouldn't consider you a "bullshitter". And like I said, and like you cared not to think about, I DO know these people that are expressing fake patriotism.


I just dont see how anyone can find NEGATIVITY in something like displaying an American flag after a great tragedy.... yet some people will inevitably reach for such things. I think you are just bothered by things which you dont understand. But theres no crime in that.

Why do you assume I don't understand it? Because I'm not from New York or what? I'd really like to know. I'm not far from NYC; a couple hours. I see these people. I see people from Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland, all around the area expressing their fake patriotism. So, I KNOW. I would say "You don't understand", but that would probably be labeled unfair, or too judgemental.


"Fake patriotism" would be something like, a guy proclaiming to be a proud American, always has a flag waving at his house, but doesnt pay his income tax, has a second identity in another state, doesnt pay child support, commits corporate fraud, etc., etc., etc. THATS a bullshitter.

I don't see that connection.

[Lynn7]

After 9 11 I was one of the people who did NOT have an American flag- I alwys thought it was corny. but I wanted one so BAD after that day. I loved seeing all of the flags and I loved seeing the whole country drawing together during that horrible time. It was very comforting. I was not being falsely patriotic but I had learned to take my country for granted and I snapped out of it. I love this place.

[Thrizzle]

Fake Patriotism to me is saying, "If you criticize this country and this war than you hate America and you hate the troops".

[Adornado]

How do you know it's fake patriotism? When you see people walking around with "I Love New York" t-shirts how do you know they didn't have them and wear them long before September 11? And even if the tragic events that happened on September 11 inspired people to go out and buy flags and t-shirts and what have you, how can you say that it's fake patriotism? They loved there county before September 11, and they loved there county after September 11...is that not patriotism? So what if they decided to go down to Wal-Mart and buy a flag after 9/11? The United States was a very, very fragile place after the terrorist attacks and I don't see anything wrong with people coming together after a tradgedy and showing there support with a flag or a t-shirt. And about the FDNY shirts...many people didn't realize just how important America's firement ( and paramedics, police etc; ) were until tradgedy struck and there recognition was long past due.

Whatever, that's just my opinion...it's not going to change yours or anyone else's but there it is.

[TheDeadWalk]

How many of you have family members or siblings that you constantly fight with, shout at, pick on, or even verbally abuse (usually back and forth)?

How many of you that said yes to the above, would still back that family member up if you saw some dickhead outsider fucking with them?

It's about family, and its always been that way. A love-hate relationship, but when provoked the true feelings come out.

As a citizen, you are a part of our family, like it or not. When another country fucks with one of our citizens and we disapprove, we will show our disdain publicly. We've never been the type to have a free loving majority that held hands on a high hill-top with a coca cola in hand to the tune of "I'd like to teach the world to sing".

To me, its like saying "I don't know why you should be mad at those guys that took advantage of your sister. You didn't tell her you loved her yesterday, you just made fun of that zit on her forehead."

[Neesh]

Originally posted by BakeTheMooCow
I certainly like America a lot. But I wasn't born here. I was born in one of the 150 countries of the world where the quality of life is shit. So is it alright for me to hate my country then?

Which country are you talking about? (When you say "my country") I'm guessing you mean the country you were born in.

If you moved from Timbuktu when you were 6 months old, then I wouldnt expect you to have a strong sense of national pride for that country. (Although that wouldnt be a bad thing at all....)

But if you moved from that country when you were old enough to develop a genuine sense of hate for it, then right on. Of course youve left out the details of where you were born, and when you moved... so I cant really answer your question of "So is it alright for me to hate my country then". It very well could be alright. Theres alot of countries in this world where there is NO patriotism, no sense of national pride, and possibly many reasons to hate it. (A large reason why alot of people want to move to .... America!)
But America, (where I assumed you were from, looking at your location) aint one of 'em. (I mean, there IS, with some people, which is idiotic, and like I said before, ungrateful.)

If you like America alot, as you say you do, then I would think that you already know what the "deal is with patriotism".

Or should you only love your country when its rich and powerful?
What a dumb question. Being rich and powerful doesnt have anything to do with it.

Hell, just HATE EVERYTHING ! Thats the ticket !

[Neesh]

Originally posted by bankholdup
Yeah, I don't know what patriotism is...right, gotcha.
Well we agree on SOMETHING! :)
What makes me sick is that people are expressing their patriotism by cashing in on a national tragedy.
Huh? I thought your rant was against people waving flags in front of their houses after 9/11, and buying flag t-shirts, etc. Those people werent "cashing in" ... they were cashing OUT!
So who is it exactly you hate? The flag wavers (which was the point of your original post) or people selling those flags to the people who want them? Narrow it down please, cuz I can only address so many issues in one day. :)
"Better buy a t-shirt or I'm a bad person!".
Again, you assume you know what people think.
Why the fuck are people insisting on buying goddamn merchandise when this happens?
To show some LOVE, man. But more importantly, why the fuck is it BOTHERING YOU?

Last I checked, a flag in front of someones house, or a t-shirt, never hurt ANYTHING....
"Oh, look, honey, a national landmark just went down and another's on fire. Quick, rush to Wal-Mart and get me one of 'dem t-shirts that has a dog wearing an "I love NY" t-shirt! They're the cutest!"
Wow! Please let me know where you keep this portal where you have the magical ability to tap into peoples minds and know their every thought and intention! I think we could sell addmission to this portal, kinda like in "Being John Malkovich". We'll be rich dude!! We'll be able to buy every fuckin' flag in the world so those other evil wanna-be flag wavers cant get 'em !
If you're going to support something, make it lifetime, not just after something bad happens.
But, if you feel so emotionally moved after a tragedy that you want to show support for those affected in some visible way, go buy a flag - BUT be aware that rabid movie loving fans may chastise you for it. THE HORROR !!!
Right now, I am going to talk about people from Jersey. Probably 98% of the people I know don't know anybody who was in those towers; the percentage is higher, guaranteed, but I'll stick with 98% for now.
Wow! In addition to having a magic mind-reading portal, you are also a master statistician! How do you find the time to watch movies ???
They didn't know anyone, yet are showing their support to all those civilians and firefighters and whoever.
OMG,THE HORROR !! And the NERVE of these people .... Lets go find all these evil people down in South Jersey and beat their asses! If we get some buff dudes like The Arrow and Shootin' Surgeon on our sides, we might have a chance at stopping the madness ! I bet you're just itchin' to try and ram a flag (with the little pole too, of course) up someones ass sideways.

We may win this war against "fake patriotism" yet !
Perfect. How do YOU know it was "LOVE"?
Because I was fucking THERE. :)
You assume these people love the country. As far as you know, it was just them trying to fit in and be excepted (they are minorities, after all).
Thats IT! Youre a GENIUS !
People without faces (hot chicks with nice asses) that you probably don't see as much as you may want to coming together because of a tragedy. That, my friend, is a very strong definition of "bullshit".
O M F G ... Did I say you were a genius? Man, GENIUS is TOO WEAK A WORD for you !!

How were things down in South Jersey on 9/11 and the days following? Cuz they were PRETTY FUCKING SCARY here. And yeah, all those people with TEARS in their eyes, wearing their T-shirts with FLAGS on them ..... and crazy me, unable to detect the BULLSHIT in all of it.

Can you recommend a book to read so that I can understand things the way you do? I really wanna untap this hidden well of logic thats out there. I'll take a train to S. Jersey to buy it if I have to. Maybe you can lend it to me.... maybe it's next to the manual for your magic mind-reading portal ???
Well, geez, that's a "fucked up" perspective :rolleyes:.
My setiments exactly. :D
I'm really glad you thought this part out. THINK before you talk, fella.
I try !?! :confused: I swear !
If you're a hardcore New Yorker (which I assume you are), I wouldn't have labeled you a bullshitter. You're in the city, so you know a lot about what there is to know. You're more aware and have probably been living there for longer, so I wouldn't consider you a "bullshitter".
Hmmmm. Interesting assumptions. (Most of them incorrect.) How 'bout you make the same assumptions towards other people that you make towards me? Emotions manifest themselves regardless of where you happen to live. Whats even MORE BEAUTIFUL than the LOVE I saw around here, was the fact that people all around the COUNTRY, and all around THE WORLD even, were also showing their LOVE and SUPPORT in a time of great tragedy. Tears were shed, and flags were waving EVERYWHERE, and these were people NOT EVEN directly affected by these tragic events. Hats off to ALL OF YOU !
And like I said, and like you cared not to think about, I DO know these people that are expressing fake patriotism.
Oh really ? Hmmm. Allow me to go back to your original post, to where you were slamming the following people:
1) "A man sit on his front porch in front of his bare house with his dog, tragedy strikes, The same man goes to Wal-Mart and buys an American flag"
2) "I was driving and noticed this huge American flag in front of this guy's house."
3) "And these FDNY hats and shirts everyone is wearing...give me a break!"
You also slammed:
4) "Oh, look, honey, a national landmark just went down and another's on fire. Quick, rush to Wal-Mart and get me one of 'dem t-shirts that has a dog wearing an "I love NY" t-shirt! They're the cutest!"

So, we've got "a man", "this guy", "everyone", and an unnamed man and his "honey". Yet now you are saying that these are people that you DO (with bold tags, even) know. VERY INTERESTING !
Hey man, if you've got a personal friend whose a bullshitter, then right the fuck on, call him a bullshitter. But your rant was NOT ABOUT people that you "DO" know. It was about people that you THINK you know. Dont bullshit YOURSELF .....

Anyways, I think I'm about about done debunking your rant. How'd I do ??? Now I'm going to go outside and look at some hot chicks with nice asses. :cool: If I happen to walk by someone with a 9/11 or Flag t-shirt, what should I do ?
Because I sure as hell am not gonna let ugliness and hatred well up inside me over it. Lifes Too Short dude !

[bankholdup]

Oi...ok, you made a couple good points. Let's dance...



Huh? I thought your rant was against people waving flags in front of their houses after 9/11, and buying flag t-shirts, etc. Those people werent "cashing in" ... they were cashing OUT!
So who is it exactly you hate? The flag wavers (which was the point of your original post) or people selling those flags to the people who want them? Narrow it down please, cuz I can only address so many issues in one day. :)

Ok, maybe I wasn't clear (I probably was, but we'll slow this down a bit for ya). It is possible for me to go onto different subjects in the same thread, it's happened before. I don't hate anybody there (if I said that, all apologies), I just don't like how they went about the subject matter at hand. I'm not one of those who will jump on the national bandwagon and the drop of a tower. Those who display the flags after 9/11 are the ones I had a problem with, not those selling them. But if they're making t-shirts with goddamn puppy dogs on them that say "Wuv NYC 4-Ever" on them with two faded towers in the background, and people are buying them, it sickens me. And "We Remember" shirts. Give me a fucking break. Of course we remember! I don't go around sporting some "I Remember When Kennedy Was Shot!" shirt...but then again, I don't know if they sell them.



Again, you assume you know what people think.

I've already covered this. You're assuming, too. God forbid you make a mistake and not recognize it, though.



To show some LOVE, man. But more importantly, why the fuck is it BOTHERING YOU?

I hate when people say this. Why is it such a big deal that something bothers someone? I could retaliate by saying "Why does this rant bother you?", but that'd be childish.


Last I checked, a flag in front of someones house, or a t-shirt, never hurt ANYTHING....

Same here. It's nothing "hurting" anything, but it's--oh, God, I've been into this a million times. Just re-read my posts if you must.


Wow! Please let me know where you keep this portal where you have the magical ability to tap into peoples minds and know their every thought and intention! I think we could sell addmission to this portal, kinda like in "Being John Malkovich". We'll be rich dude!! We'll be able to buy every fuckin' flag in the world so those other evil wanna-be flag wavers cant get 'em !

Cut the heavy sarcasm. Try to have a serious debate here, would ya? And, like I said a couple times before now, you are assuming (just as I am in some situations, as I now realize), as well. You just don't want to realize that you are assuming, too. Take a note: You CAN be wrong, it's okay. It happens to the best of us.



But, if you feel so emotionally moved after a tragedy that you want to show support for those affected in some visible way, go buy a flag - BUT be aware that rabid movie loving fans may chastise you for it. THE HORROR !!!

If you want to show support, donate some money to the goddamn fire stations. Why buy a t-shirt from a corporation or even worse, a filthy man from the sidewalks, as NYC is filled with them, from what I've seen. I'd rather put money to a good cause instead of buying a hat.



Wow! In addition to having a magic mind-reading portal, you are also a master statistician! How do you find the time to watch movies ???

Know why I think you're using heavy sarcasm? Sort of a defense mechanism. I think you're uncomfortable, so you're using sarcasm to deal with it. I guess you'll assume (oh, wait, you don't do that, do you...?) that I am some master psychiatrist now, right?

And what the fuck are you talking about, anyway? I'm giving you an estimate of people I know, and you just--ugh...I think you can figure it out, but if not, let me know.


OMG,THE HORROR !! And the NERVE of these people .... Lets go find all these evil people down in South Jersey and beat their asses! If we get some buff dudes like The Arrow and Shootin' Surgeon on our sides, we might have a chance at stopping the madness ! I bet you're just itchin' to try and ram a flag (with the little pole too, of course) up someones ass sideways.

Who? Me? :)


Because I was fucking THERE. :)

Oh, so, you were there. Okay, so you know have the big advantage and feel you know everything about the situation, is that it? You are assuming, fella.


Thats IT! Youre a GENIUS !

O M F G ... Did I say you were a genius? Man, GENIUS is TOO WEAK A WORD for you !!

How were things down in South Jersey on 9/11 and the days following? Cuz they were PRETTY FUCKING SCARY here. And yeah, all those people with TEARS in their eyes, wearing their T-shirts with FLAGS on them ..... and crazy me, unable to detect the BULLSHIT in all of it.

Can you recommend a book to read so that I can understand things the way you do? I really wanna untap this hidden well of logic thats out there. I'll take a train to S. Jersey to buy it if I have to. Maybe you can lend it to me.... maybe it's next to the manual for your magic mind-reading portal ???

It's a real shame you can't have a good debate.


Oh really ? Hmmm. Allow me to go back to your original post, to where you were slamming the following people:
1) "A man sit on his front porch in front of his bare house with his dog, tragedy strikes, The same man goes to Wal-Mart and buys an American flag"
2) "I was driving and noticed this huge American flag in front of this guy's house."
3) "And these FDNY hats and shirts everyone is wearing...give me a break!"
You also slammed:
4) "Oh, look, honey, a national landmark just went down and another's on fire. Quick, rush to Wal-Mart and get me one of 'dem t-shirts that has a dog wearing an "I love NY" t-shirt! They're the cutest!"

So, we've got "a man", "this guy", "everyone", and an unnamed man and his "honey". Yet now you are saying that these are people that you DO (with bold tags, even) know. VERY INTERESTING !
Hey man, if you've got a personal friend whose a bullshitter, then right the fuck on, call him a bullshitter. But your rant was NOT ABOUT people that you "DO" know. It was about people that you THINK you know. Dont bullshit YOURSELF .....

1) "A man" is what we call an example...
2) "This guy"...I don't see what's wrong with that. I am judging the outside of his house, so what? No American flag one week, a tragedy happens, and boom! American flag the next.
3) "Everyone"...do you really think I mean every single person? If they were a strong part of it, then fine. But I mean everyone who is falsely patriotic.
4) Also what we call an example...

Ok, I'm assuming, right? In some cases I can see what you mean. Do you see what I did there? I admitted I am not 100% right on all accounts. I just don't see why others (meaning you) can't believe that they can have some falseness to their posts. But that's another rant for another day.


Anyways, I think I'm about about done debunking your rant.

1) You didn't debunk shit.
2) That's a goddamn shame.

[RicochetShaw]

Originally posted by bankholdup
Ok, maybe I wasn't clear (I probably was, but we'll slow this down a bit for ya).

:rolleyes:



Originally posted by bankholdup
1) You didn't debunk shit.

I disagree, heavily.