Where Pirating teaches a lesson.

[cstroman]

I am for Pirating in certain circumstances.

And that is where there is a Demand not filled by the Supplier.

I love Scores to Motion Pictures and have given the Recording Industry quite a few dollars for their overpriced "mass AOL replicated" cd's

However, there are a few soundtracks I lack but very much want:

Cocoon (James Horner)
Fried Green Tomatoes (Score by Thomas Newman)
Legend of Bagger Vance (Rachel Portman)

These are Out of Print from their respective companies. And I am NOT going to pay $70+ bidding on a used one.

I would go to Walmart and pick them up for the overpriced $12.00 that it should sell for, but as it's OOP you can't find them.

In that case I wholeheartedly support Pirating because there is a demand for it, but they are unwilling to fill it.

Same goes for the Original DVD to Little Shop of Horrors. A few were released that had an ALTERNATE ending, but it was pulled from the shelves when the Director found out it was on there and he didn't like it.

Well if China is willing to replicate that version and there is a demand for it that the director/studio is unwilling to fulfill, then by all means, buy it from the person who is willing to provide it for you.

Same with the Original Star Wars Trilogy on DVD (non-SE). If you want it, you won't get it on DVD in the states, you will have to IMPORT it from outside of the United States.

Do it.

I think there is a valid reason against Pirating if the "real deal" is offered at a reasonble price, but when they decide NOT to release something and demand calls for it, I have no problem with demand filling the need themselves.

[Kevin Smith fan]

I think that the main problem with pirating is the outrageous prices. At Wal-Mart the so-called "sale" bin is filled with $12 cds. It's rediculous. Why pay over $12 for a cd that costs less than $10 to make. Plus, most of the mainstream artists have only about 10 songs on an album. I try to support the artists as much as I can but at $16 a cd it's getting tougher. Movies are now becomming a problem becuase all the money hungry distributors will throw the fans a cheap, no features version of the movie and then wait 6-12 months to come out with a new better version so that you are forced to buy a new copy of it. Th Fast and the Furious has about 3 or 4 different DVDs out there. If you don't have all the materials ready for a DVD, than wait! Hold the release date back and make sure you put together a quality DVD. It would make people a lot less mad having to wait an extra few weeks for a good copy, than making them pay 20 bucks just to have to cough up 20 more when they can get their sh!t together enough to put out all the features that should have been on the first version.

[Common Sense Man]

Well I have never bought the fact that Movie Piracy by the general guy on the net has hurt the industry.

Music on the other hand I can see. But if they would charge a fair price for a CD I would buy them. I can remember buying 16 dollar CD's back in 89.

I paid 700 dollars for a VCR back then to and I can by a good one now for 100. So the music industry is cutting their own throats.

As far as DVD's go.

If you are going to buy the first release knowing that there will be another then don't complain.

Rent the movie if you have to see it.

I rarely buy DVD's when they first come out because everyone in the world knows the first release of any DVD will suck.

Patience is a virtue after all so simply wait.

And we all know that if the movie is really good it will have a 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, etc. etc year anniversary release so just live with it.

Out............................................... ...................

[cstroman]

In all honesty the actual "manufacture" of a CD is about 2 dollars.

Then you have to put a price on the "time" the artist spent making it, which is subjective because if you can charge for that "time" then naturally the price of a "hot selling cd" should be about 3 bucks because they are being repaid for their "time" more and more.

The Recording/Music making business is not being hurt. Nothing is stopping anyone from picking up a guitar and writing a song. Just they want to make a very, very decadent life style off of their music.

Can anyone honestly say that Piracy has HURT or IMPEDED people from making music? No, but it has impeded people making obscene amounts of money from the music.

As a comparison. I bought the Movie "Dream Team" on DVD the other day and I guarantee you it cost MILLIONS more to make that film than Ms. Spears latest album, but her album costs MORE than most movies.

That is just plain wrong. If a movie costs between 5-10 bucks for Catalogue titles, then a CD catalogue title should cost between 3-5 bucks.

Notice that the next time you go buy a new release at Walmart. See how much the CD which is ONLY the music from that same movie costs compared to the Movie.

They SHOULD be VASTLY different in price due to Production costs.

That they aren't leads me to say,

Fuck the music industry:D

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by cstroman
I think there is a valid reason against Pirating if the "real deal" is offered at a reasonble price, but when they decide NOT to release something and demand calls for it, I have no problem with demand filling the need themselves.


I disagree.

It's like saying I want to Charlize Theron nude, so it's cool to just peer through her window.

[cstroman]

It's like saying I want to Charlize Theron nude, so it's cool to just peer through her window.

Actually that analogy would be correct if Charlize had decided to make any movie with her Naked in it edited so she wasn't anymore. If demand still wanted the Naked movies, then they will find a way to get it.

Your analogy is asking for something that was never given before, whereas mine is something that was marketed/sold, but then they changed their mind and didn't want to offer it anymore even though the demand still exists for it.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by cstroman
Your analogy is asking for something that was never given before, whereas mine is something that was marketed/sold, but then they changed their mind and didn't want to offer it anymore even though the demand still exists for it.



Okay then, it would be like buying codine off the street, because it used to be legal over the counter, but now it isn't, and I would like to have some. Fuck the fact that it's against the law.

[cstroman]

True, that's a better analogy. Or just buy it from Canada and bring it accross the border.

Law hasn't stopped people from buying Marijuana.

EDIT: I speak spanish and was wondering where the word "Marijuana originated.

It appears to be a contraction of two names Maria and Juana.

[MallratsJunkie]

It goes deeper than just supply and demand. The RIAA has, and is in, a price fixing scheme to inflate cd prices. Same goes for the MPAA, and just about every other so-called "common interest" groups.

They're jacking prices up for cds that should be cheaper than tapes ever were (anyone remember the whole "it doesn't include moving parts so it will be half the price of a tape" speach when redbook was first announced?).

We've ben ripped off for long enough. Like anything else, when people are ripped off, and know it, they have no moral obligation to pay for such services. Cable, everybody I know has free cable... But only because our family plan is upwards of 75 bucks, and thats just basic cable channels.

The MPAA is making a stand in the wrong direction. Instead of going after the supposed "thieves", why not fight back with cheaper prices? If you really want to stop the piracy, all they have to do is sell the DVDs cheaper. There will be no reason to pirate if everybody is buying them. The pirating industry is about bartering. You get a DVD rip, trade it for another... and so goes the cycle. This is at the lowest end of the transfer. Upwards in the ripping groups they have people working in theaters, interns at production companies, and these are the people making the money. They steal the movie, encode it to mpeg4, sell it to a webmaster who runs a ripping site.. Then he gives it a ripping group's name, distributes a few copies with the name intact, parts it out in a bunch of compressed files on his site and makes a killing on the advertisements on his site.

So to cut it off at the head, you've got to supply the DVD originally at the store, cheaper than the effort people would make to try to hunt down the supposed copy. But instead the MPAA/MPA decides to just take children's college educations. Its your call, but I personally think that their move is just enough to perpetuate the cycle.

[MallratsJunkie]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
Okay then, it would be like buying codine off the street, because it used to be legal over the counter, but now it isn't, and I would like to have some. Fuck the fact that it's against the law.

Illegal is illegal. Its hypocritical ot justify your theft by the theory that if you want it and its not readily availble, its alright to steal.

And you can't really bring drugs into the mix because codeine is addictive, lol. Most people aren't physically addicted to movies.

[Draccoca]

Man i love living in Canada where the RIAA and the MPAA can't touch me for downloading lolololol. The RIAA is bitching and complaining because music sales have dropped and are blaming downloaders, when studies have shown that it has nothing to do with downloaders, it's that most older people have replaced all of their LP's and tapes with CD's and also with the low quailty of original music today is the true cost.

And befor someone asks me if i feel guilty about downloading hell no i don't because i wouldn't have gone to the theater to watch a movie or bought a cd, or game or whatever

[cstroman]

Homosexual Marriage is illegal as well (not recognized and defined as one woman, one man in all state constitutions), that doesn't make it right to not do it or give them equal rights does it?

I haven't stolen anything, I just "copied" it.;)

[Grim H.]

Originally posted by MallratsJunkie
Most people aren't physically addicted to movies.

I am. ;)

[cstroman]

Me too!

[adamjohnson]

There are SOME things that arent even released onto Cd's. For instance, on Cartoon Network years ago there were a few shows I used to watch. Of course these little shows's theme song arent released, so I d-loaded those. (You know like, SWAT KATS, or MUMMIES ALIVE)

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by Grim H.
I am. ;)

Me too!

*melts a DVD of 2001 into a bowl, puts the liquid in a syringe, and shoots up*

Goddamn that feels good!

I rarely pirate, but when I do, I do it to piss off the industry. You won't get all my potential money until you stop releasing fad crap like You Got Served and Pokemon!

http://www.stammeshaus.com/noneoftheabove/img/fightthepower.jpg

[GodMagnus]

I'll just give my view and you all can either ignore it or comment. Doesn't really matter.
I download. Not A LOT but I do. Music and movies.
I LOVED shrek 2. Infact, saw it twice in theatres. Now it's on my computer. When it comes on DVD, i'll delete it and buy the DVD.
I did something sort of like that with The "Hulk" too. No one wanted to see it. I downloaded, liked it, bought it when it came out.
Do I feel guilty. Do I feel like I have ripped people off...No.
Why should I. They got my DVD sale. Maybe not my Theatre sale but the DVD one for sure.

Not just that but movies cost BIG $$$ to make...and most of it seems to be to the overly HIGH paid actors.
The Producers are charging us "customers" big $$$ to see the movie BECAUSE they paid top $$$ to the actors. Frankly, that's not my problem. Either lessen their pay to the actors or deal with piracy that's gonna happen.
Not just that, but they put together an AMAZING trailor for you and if you don't like the movie, too damn bad. It's almost like false advertisment.

Now again, not saying I download all the time nor do I endorse it. I'm actually picky about the movies I see. I plan to see AVP and Spidey 2, but that's about it.... for now...
If I like them, i'll download them until it's released on DVD.
For HUGH movie buffs, they really are sucking them dry with movie prices. So really, what did they expect...

As far as music goes. I download what I can't get (imports and no longer produced stuff). Also, if a cd with 15 songs on it has 3 GREAT ones, I'll download them. If more than half the album is good, i'll buy it. Why spend almost 20.00 for 3 songs. (BTW, i'm in Canada hence the strange high prices. Not sure how much movie tickets are in the U.S.)
That's just the way I look at it.

[JCPhoenix]

Originally posted by GodMagnus
I'll just give my view and you all can either ignore it or comment. Doesn't really matter.
I download. Not A LOT but I do. Music and movies.
I LOVED shrek 2. Infact, saw it twice in theatres. Now it's on my computer. When it comes on DVD, i'll delete it and buy the DVD.
I did something sort of like that with The "Hulk" too. No one wanted to see it. I downloaded, liked it, bought it when it came out.
Do I feel guilty. Do I feel like I have ripped people off...No.
Why should I. They got my DVD sale. Maybe not my Theatre sale but the DVD one for sure.

Not just that but movies cost BIG $$$ to make...and most of it seems to be to the overly HIGH paid actors.
The Producers are charging us "customers" big $$$ to see the movie BECAUSE they paid top $$$ to the actors. Frankly, that's not my problem. Either lessen their pay to the actors or deal with piracy that's gonna happen.
Not just that, but they put together an AMAZING trailor for you and if you don't like the movie, too damn bad. It's almost like false advertisment.

Now again, not saying I download all the time nor do I endorse it. I'm actually picky about the movies I see. I plan to see AVP and Spidey 2, but that's about it.... for now...
If I like them, i'll download them until it's released on DVD.
For HUGH movie buffs, they really are sucking them dry with movie prices. So really, what did they expect...

As far as music goes. I download what I can't get (imports and no longer produced stuff). Also, if a cd with 15 songs on it has 3 GREAT ones, I'll download them. If more than half the album is good, i'll buy it. Why spend almost 20.00 for 3 songs. (BTW, i'm in Canada hence the strange high prices. Not sure how much movie tickets are in the U.S.)
That's just the way I look at it.

bravo, great rant. i agree exactly. i watch movies on my comp several times then i'll go and buy the dvd and delete it off my computer. i still go to theatres to see the same amount of movies as i did before starting downloading, and i spend almost all of the money i could possibly on movies anyway so if i wasn't downloading, i just would be spending less on dvds probably. or i would still be spending all my money on movies, it wouldn't make a difference.

[Badbird]

I download music sometimes, but usually to hear what it sounds like. The music I like isn't played on radio or MTV, so some bands I have no way of knowing what they sound like. If I like what I hear, I usually buy the album because CDs sound better than mp3s.

The problem with musci piracy is the price. If the industry got it's head out of its ass and lowered CDs to ten bucks a pop, sales would go through the roof. What they lost per unit thay would more than make up for in sheer volume.

In fact, I think CDs should be priced by how long they are. Under 40 minutes - $8, 40-60 minutes - $10, over 60 - $12.

The argument that CD sales have gone down since the mass introduction of CD burners does hold weight, but did they ever stop and consider that maybe sales are down because prices have gone up (1990, a CD from Musicland was always $15, now mall music stores charge up to $21.99), or that maybe pop music just sucks?

Cassette tapes cost more to produce than CDs, but they're always been ten bucks for as long as I can remember.

Movies on the other hand, I don't buy the piracy argument for one second. Movies are bringing in more money every year. Only once since 1990 has the total gross of Hollywood's movies not been bigger than the previous. Opening records are getting smashed every month. Shrek 2 just had the second biggest opening weekend of all time. Spiderman 2 will porbably break it's old opening weekend recond set TWO YEARS AGO!

Not only that, but movies have no staying power anymore, due to the flood of titles out every week. Most movie make 70% of their gross in two to three weeks, which makes pirated movies that take time to circulate moot. Plus, unlike music, a pirated movie doesn't come close to seeing the real thing in a theater, meaning people will always go to theaters.

And DVD sales have added a huge advantage to movie makers. People buy DVDs by the truckload. VHS sales were never this rabbid. Kill Bill 1 sold 4 million units in ONE DAY! So overall, movies in theaters, international markets, and home video, are raking in cash like never before. Why else would the makers of Troy, Van Helsing, Day After Tomorrow, Spider Man 2, etc, not flinch at their sky high budgets (all rumored to be 150 - 200 million)? Because they know they'll make their money back and then some.

Long gone are the days of Waterworld and Titanic where producers fear the budget. Just making a high profile movie is almost a license to print money simply because people buy so many DVDs.

[MallratsJunkie]

Originally posted by GodMagnus
I'll just give my view and you all can either ignore it or comment. Doesn't really matter.
I download. Not A LOT but I do. Music and movies.
I LOVED shrek 2. Infact, saw it twice in theatres. Now it's on my computer. When it comes on DVD, i'll delete it and buy the DVD.
I did something sort of like that with The "Hulk" too. No one wanted to see it. I downloaded, liked it, bought it when it came out.
Do I feel guilty. Do I feel like I have ripped people off...No.
Why should I. They got my DVD sale. Maybe not my Theatre sale but the DVD one for sure.

Not just that but movies cost BIG $$$ to make...and most of it seems to be to the overly HIGH paid actors.
The Producers are charging us "customers" big $$$ to see the movie BECAUSE they paid top $$$ to the actors. Frankly, that's not my problem. Either lessen their pay to the actors or deal with piracy that's gonna happen.
Not just that, but they put together an AMAZING trailor for you and if you don't like the movie, too damn bad. It's almost like false advertisment.

Now again, not saying I download all the time nor do I endorse it. I'm actually picky about the movies I see. I plan to see AVP and Spidey 2, but that's about it.... for now...
If I like them, i'll download them until it's released on DVD.
For HUGH movie buffs, they really are sucking them dry with movie prices. So really, what did they expect...

As far as music goes. I download what I can't get (imports and no longer produced stuff). Also, if a cd with 15 songs on it has 3 GREAT ones, I'll download them. If more than half the album is good, i'll buy it. Why spend almost 20.00 for 3 songs. (BTW, i'm in Canada hence the strange high prices. Not sure how much movie tickets are in the U.S.)
That's just the way I look at it.

When you're downloading movies, you're supporting the sites that obtain them illegally, which perpetuates the cycle of piracy. You're basically giving them the money to operate. So just because you're buying the DVDs, and deleting your files or whatever, you're still supporting piracy in the larger sense.

[rilocay]

I get pirated stuff, everyone does. I got from a friend kill bill v1 on dvd pirated because he hired it out and burned it, anf frankly because they dvd was months away (and still is) i coudlnt bare wating for the film to come out so i got it.

My friends and i do this with music, borrow each others albumns and burn them. So we still get music we anna listen to but it works out for us because we get 2 birds with one stone.

[Kevin Smith fan]

I've noticed one place lately that piracy has thrived off of is e-bay.
Just a few days ago I bidded on a penny Army of Darkness DVD and when I got it, it was obviously a bootleg. You could practically smell the ink from the printer on the thing. Anyway I popped the disc in and it wasn't even Army of Darkness, it was a Matrix Revolutions disc with an Army of Darkness sticker printed onto it. I've heard this has happened before, and I think they should look into this and try to arrest the people partaking in it. Sharing is one thing, but selling it is worse than what you call "stealing", it's making a proffit off it too. That's my only objction with pirating. People just wanna get borrowed movies but then some idiot has to go around selling them and ruins it for everyone.

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by GodMagnus
The Producers are charging us "customers" big $$$ to see the movie BECAUSE they paid top $$$ to the actors. Frankly, that's not my problem. Either lessen their pay to the actors or deal with piracy that's gonna happen.
Not just that, but they put together an AMAZING trailor for you and if you don't like the movie, too damn bad. It's almost like false advertisment.

As far as music goes...if a cd with 15 songs on it has 3 GREAT ones, I'll download them. If more than half the album is good, i'll buy it. Why spend almost 20.00 for 3 songs.

That's just the way I look at it.

Are you there, God? It's me, Twisted Sister. And I agree with you.

The cost of making a DVD and CD has DECREASED since their inception, yet due to corporate greed, consumer prices keep rising. Production companies are getting the message about consumers' unrest. It's evident in all of their "public-service" type announcements against piracy.

There are so many releases, be it movies OR music, that are utter crap, but companies consistently release slick trailers/previews, and consumers are expected to pay full-price for junk.

Consumers have the right to be educated as to a product's quality before being obligated to shell out hard-earned bucks for it. It's why we have consumer advocates like the BBB. Is pirating wrong? In my opinion, yes and no. There are tons of people that are stealing with no intent of ever buying the legit product. But then there are those that have done it with the best intentions behind the action, i.e., buying the high-quality original after sampling the wares.

There is also the supply/demand issue. There is a movie I love that was never distributed. This guy on ebay was selling his own handmade digitized version on disc, and I took a gamble and bought it. It's high-quality and well done, and $22 that CBS missed out on. I'm not supporting piracy. I'm supporting someone who is providing a service that CBS doesn't want to.

[GodMagnus]

Originally posted by MallratsJunkie
When you're downloading movies, you're supporting the sites that obtain them illegally, which perpetuates the cycle of piracy. You're basically giving them the money to operate. So just because you're buying the DVDs, and deleting your files or whatever, you're still supporting piracy in the larger sense. I completly agree with you. I am still suporting piracy in a certain level. (kazaa) but like I said, if actors pay went down or if big budget movies were done properly and didn't SUCK all the time, why not download. I'd RATHER preview than spend 13.50 on something that looks FANTASTIC but is utterly crap.
Take Moulin Rouge for example. I downloaded it before we saw it. My bro mainly wanted me to. We watched it, loved it and THEN actually WENT to a theatre. So while I AM supporting piracy by downloading, sometimes, if the movie is good enough, They WILL get me to the theatre. I saw MR twice in theatres (took several friends different days).
I have no intention of downloading a preview for Spidey 2 or AVP, but if they are good enough, I will until the DVD release.
It works hand in hand. Piracy screws over the movie industry but at the same time, the movie industry is supply CRAP and they know it but will make it appear GREAT and boom, in a way, steal from movie go-ers. So to me, I just don't care. I think my way is a little bit more reasonable. I know people who burn movies and sell them as bootlegs. I don't support that at all. THAT I find to be VERY wrong. Mostly for the buyer. I mean really, if you're gonna pay 10.00 for a bootleg, pay an extra 20 when it's out on DVD and get all the extras AND quality.
But to each their own.
Again, I agree with what you say, but like I said, piracy and the movie industry issues are going hand in hand.
Neither are right, but, as the indusrties say, that's business...