Toe Tag pictures

[Talking Text]

I just saw the August Underground films the other day and WOW, they are true masterpeices. The company that made the movies go by the name thats in the title of the thread.

Has anybody else seen the movies? i'd love to know what other schmoes think of them and if they are going to see the new one that's getting filmed in sept. Or have you had enough? too grossed out ? :eek: .

Well discuss!

[charles lee ray]

I thought AU was halfway decent but Mordum was just too fucked up. how can you enjoy that movie?

[Talking Text]

Hahaha, you know what? i knew you would say that. No disrespect, you're a cool guy and all, but i've read your opinions on the films before.

Anyway, Mordum is a great film. The only scene that's too fucked up for me is (spoilers, BIG ONES)the maggot-child scene, that was way too far. Luckily though, Fred will have killed him at the end (well thats what i think).

These films are good man, whether you rate them on enjoyment level (which i don't think you should) or you rate them on how well there made, or the plain talent of the cast.

And i really didn't ENJOY them, but c'mon, they are amazing.

And how about that Crusty eh?
:cool:

[alt0077]

i did not enjoy them at all. but i still love them, its nice to see a new age emotional expliotation. it may be wierd but i love how dirty and disgusted it made me feel. i think thats what fred was going for. after all what other purpose could this movie be for?

its also good to see someone following in Romero's roots and filming some fucking bad ass movies in/near Pittsburg.

[C-Desecration-]

I don't want to get into "that" again (most people should know what I'm talking about--see the Mordum thread), but with the whole "it's gross and because of that is emotional" is kind of going straight for the throat, isn't it? By that I mean a lot of movies can make you feel depressed/disgusted, etc., but the quality ones don't go for the jugular. It takes a lot to craft things subtley . . .
. . . like you could take the time to beat up someone, or you could kick them in the balls and end it. The latter's a cheapshot.
Aren't these movies cheapshots?

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing . . . after all, Irreversible's rape scene is a complete cheap shot, but - even though I haven't seen the movie - I hold the film in pretty high regards quality-wise, what from the reviews and all.

[Talking Text]

Alt0077, That's exactly how i felt, i watched these films with my finger hovering above the "stop" button on my video remote, and for a movie to do that to me, well what can i say ? Well fucking done.

I didn't stop any of the movies once, i didn't look away from the screen either. I couldn't, and that to me makes these movies great.

They also play the perfect tool in grossing your freinds out. I told my cousin that mordum was real snuff, he bought it....and walked out of the room 10mins in to it.

[Talking Text]

C-des, i know what you're saying there mate, but mordum isn't like that, it's way more complex. I don't think you've seen it have you? Honestly, it's not your typical gore movie.

[pig farmer]

I haven't seen it, nor have I seen it to rent or buy.

I am sort of interested, but I'm not really into exploitation movies. For example, I thought Cannibal Holocaust was just plain stupid and boring, and that's a big shocker to many people. I understand that this movie is different, though, and the odd things I've been hearing about it have been selling points. I've always wished child murder would make itself into horror movies more, because that is something truly revolting. I think that perhaps this movie has taken a different angle than I would, though, so I really don't know if it will play out the way I would like.

Where do you get a hold of these movies? In case I ever decide to watch them, I guess.

[Romero&Juliet]

Talking Text - I've seen you mention the fine people of Toetag a few times on the boards and I've been planning to pm you about it.. there's a few people who are big into these guys' pictures on the boards. :)

I'd venture to say that these guys are all fucking BRILLIANT. Thir two features are already gathering a lot of praise and I have no doubt that these things are going to become the next big thing.

They're really incomparable in terms of the kind of improvisation and elaborate storyboarding, etc.. I cant tell for sure, but it looked as though some of the cuts were WAYYY longer than five minutes. Having to prepare all of that would be an insannnne amount of work.

C-des has gone on forever with with 'tude towards Mordum.. and naturally, its going to generate a lot of opinions such as his. Obviously, he's stubborn(:) I mean that in a nice way, or course) and I doubt anything short of seeing the flick will make him change his mind.

I just CANNOT wait until these flicks are exposed to the masses.. its gonna be a great day for horror-dum.


pigfarmer: you can get the MORDUM dvd from toetagpictures.com. Its 20 US and WELLL worth it. I dont know the status on AU, butI got it on a trade..

[alt0077]

haha if they ever get exposed to the masses were all gonna get arrested for owning a genueine snuff film... you know theyre gonna be gay about it.

[Romero&Juliet]

Originally posted by Talking Text


They also play the perfect tool in grossing your freinds out. I told my cousin that mordum was real snuff, he bought it....and walked out of the room 10mins in to it.


LOL!! I actually brought Mordum to a party a few weeks ago and let everyone know that it was fake (there were a few horror fans there, so I thought it would be a treat) and it cleared a room of about ten before the "hammer" scene.

[C-Desecration-]

Actually, I've kind of shifted opinions. These movies went from being disgusting wastes of times that are watched by sickos to disgusting wastes of times that are watched by genuinely good people who just love getting put through the wringer, to interesting takes of film, and finally, finally, I don't despise these movies. Like I mentioned, I think pretty highly of Irreversible. And I will see that.

But I'm still stubborn.


I also want to second pig's question--
Where do you get a hold of these movies? In case I ever decide to watch them, I guess.

[alt0077]

go to the trading forum here, just post a request and someone is sure to respond, i have both AUs on dvdr as well as irreversible and a load of other stuff :).

[XvoorheesX]

Alt0077, That's exactly how i felt, i watched these films with my finger hovering above the "stop" button on my video remote, and for a movie to do that to me, well what can i say ? Well fucking done.

This is a theory that I could never figure out, but I'm really trying to. Gore is easy. Gore is cheap. Yes, it can be amazing when used right, but then it's not the gore that makes it work, it's the situation in which it works. To make a gory scene, even as bad as the ones from "Mordum", it take no skill at all as a filmmaker.

Anybody with a camera from sears and basic knowledge of special effects can make something that will have your finger hovering above the "stop" button, but that does not make it good film. It makes it pornography, and the only purpose it serves is to show something taboo. That's not art, and it never will be art.

Anybody with respect for the art of film would be insulted at these hacks being called brilliant filmmakers. I finally saw "Audition" today, and I literally laughed for a full twenty minutes at how ridiculously awful it was. It's just like "Irreversable" was... Throw in something incredibly disturbing, and it'll take your attention away from the fact that there was no plot, no redeemable qualities whatsoever... And most importantly, the fact that the whole movie was just an excuse to make something disgusting.

Anybody weak enough to try and make a name for themselves on shock value alone should just listen to what you guys are saying, film themselves cutting off their genitalia, and I guess that would put them up with DeMille and Kurosawa. Everyone else that has respect for their medium, and the determination to achieve the skill worthy of it should try and get there the old fashioned way... Making good movies.

[C-Desecration-]

I finally saw "Audition" today, and I literally laughed for a full twenty minutes at how ridiculously awful it was.



I have to step in with that. I disagree. I didn't like the ending just because it felt totally out of place. But the rest of the film was just great, excellent everything, a very intruiging romantic movie, and certainly not something that would take zero talent. So many people praised Lost in Translation, yet I couldn't even finish it. The fact that that movie was praised totally baffled me.
I somewhat agree that it's easy to repulse people. But don't jump to conclusions with these guys getting so much praise (aside from irreversible). Mordum, for instance, if released mainstream, would be universally shunned. It's just gore-hound types love it.

These movies can never stand - or even be in the shadow of -things like se7en, 8mm, and whatnot. At least I don't think so (apparently mordum has a good plot . . . 'apparently'). But if one thing should be praised it's no doubt the effects. Apparently they're just fantastic, and not something anyone with limited knowledge of this stuff could pull off.

[alt0077]

guess he hasnt seen any of Jorg Buttgereit's films :D

[alt0077]

Fred Vogal has so much talent, with takes that are 15 minutes plus without stopping or changing scenes. find me 1 movie released in the past 10 years that has scenes over 15 minutes. its not made to be a movie, its made to look like a snuff film and it succeeds very well at that.

[C-Desecration-]

Fred Vogal has so much talent, with takes that are 15 minutes plus without stopping or changing scenes. find me 1 movie released in the past 10 years that has scenes over 15 minutes. its not made to be a movie, its made to look like a snuff film and it succeeds very well at that.


But you have to ask yourself, is that really that hard?

Oh, and since we're on the subject, has anyone seen Scrapbook? I read a synopsis on this (you should sneek a peek here, xvoorheesx), and I was blown away. If this was the idea of some big-budget vehicle coming out it'd no doubt be anticipated on the same level as Se7en:
"A young woman named Clara is captured by a serial killer named Leonard who records his 'life story' by keeping a scrapbook of his many victims. In addition to adhering Polaroids, scraps of clothing, and other small trophies to the pages, Leonard has forced his victims to personally write in the scrapbook about their individual ordeals. Clara is beaten, raped, starved, and locked up like an animal, filthy and naked. She is forced to write in the scrapbook, adding her agony to the pages. She soon realizes that her only hope for survival is to manipulate Leonard through her writings in his cherished scrapbook. "
I'm not sure if the execution of this is any good, but this is the one idea behind these 'types' of movies that I've been completely blown away by (there was also another one to do with some drug that reversed pain to pleasure, or something, and though the concept is interesting I doubt that movie took it anywhere aside from gross-out).

[killuminati003]

actualy , AU and Mordum have been on my to-watch list for some time now....they are there with Cannibal Holocaust, Itchi the Killer, and Ringu......

[countchocula]

Originally posted by XvoorheesX
This is a theory that I could never figure out, but I'm really trying to. Gore is easy. Gore is cheap. Yes, it can be amazing when used right, but then it's not the gore that makes it work, it's the situation in which it works. To make a gory scene, even as bad as the ones from "Mordum", it take no skill at all as a filmmaker.

Anybody with a camera from sears and basic knowledge of special effects can make something that will have your finger hovering above the "stop" button, but that does not make it good film. It makes it pornography, and the only purpose it serves is to show something taboo. That's not art, and it never will be art.

Implementing realistic gore does require talent. You could go out in your backyard with a fake appendage that you bought at Spencer's, and shoot a scene where it's amputated by an axe-wielding circus clown, but chances are, it won't be effective. I haven't seen August Underground or its sequel, but presumably, these guys know what they're doing. Exploitation is art. Art doesn't have to be pensive or multi-layered. It just has to make you feel, and judging by the extreme reactions that these flicks have amassed, they have accomplished just that.

[countchocula]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
But you have to ask yourself, is that really that hard?

I'd say so. You wouldn't be able to break character for 10-15 minutes solid. That wouldn't be such a breeze if you were playing the chick that's being sodomized and screaming bloody murder. Also, you have to be able to pull the special effects off without a hitch. In addition to the AU films, 2001's $lasher$ adhered to this method of filmmaking (though it was mediocre at best).

[XvoorheesX]

Double post.

[XvoorheesX]

I also saw the Hole yesterday, and the gore in that had me blown away. No, it wasn't that gory, but what made it effective was how wrapped I was in the story, how much I felt for the characters, and the fact that I never saw it coming. But when that's taken into account, it proves that the gore didn't do anything, it was the directors skill at exploiting the scene.

find me 1 movie released in the past 10 years that has scenes over 15 minutes.
Paul Thomas Anderson has that beat. "Elephant" had some that are over twenty. And if you say "so what?", you'll be exactly right. It's not hard to do long takes, what makes them hard is what happens in these takes.

its not made to be a movie, its made to look like a snuff film and it succeeds very well at that.

Another point for my side. To call this a great movie is a lie, because it's not a movie. The same way a porn flick isn't a movie, the same way a taped baseball game isn't a movie. Art is a form of creative expression, made out of nothing, and used to provoke thought. A movie is a story told with pictures.

When you think of all the absolutely breathtaking films that have been made, from Kurosawa to Ford, from Hitchcock to Fellinni, from Kubrick to Scorsese... And then you call someone brilliant or masterfull in this same craft for the sole fact that they captured something comletely repulsive on film? That is absoultely ridiculous.

[alt0077]

fred vogal transfered his artistic vision to tape. and for some reason you dont want to accept it. yeah some directors are better at it than others, but hey everyone has to start out somewhere. look at peter jackson, dead-alive and bad taste then lord of the ring?

movies are ment to be entertaining, however there is not a single movie that is entertaining to every person alive. august underground did its job in entertaining me. it made me feel dirty, it made me feel bad. but hey didnt passion of the christ do that for all the christians who saw it?

[countchocula]

Originally posted by XvoorheesX
Art is a form of creative expression, made out of nothing, and used to provoke thought.

So you admit that Mordum is art. It's an artistic outlet, it was made out of practically nothing, and this thread is proof that it provokes thought. Disturbing films don't need gore, but it enhances a scene's visceral impact.

Regarding one-take shooting, no, the take itself isn't meticulous. You have to take preparation into account.

[Romero&Juliet]

Déja vu -

The people at Toetag have their shit together.

Its really as simple as that!

I dare you to go out and find one person who's seen the flicksand has lukewarm feelings about them. ANYyone, no matter what their tastes, or claims at being a true lover of zee cinnneemaaa.

The fact is, the only people I've ever heard say bad things about the flicks are those who haven't seen them.

[XvoorheesX]

Art is a form of creative expression, made out of nothing, and used to provoke thought.
Take it with a grain of salt. If I went out and bet up someone, yes I'm expressing what I feel, and yes, it would provoke thought. Does that make it art?

Anyways, the point I'm making is that I think it's wrong for people to be labelled brilliant when what they're doing is cheap shock value. I have the resources and contacts to make a feature film. I don't have enough experience to make it a good movie, but I could make it absolutely vile, and for that simple fact, it would get seen and people would be talking about it. Seeing how so many filmmakers put themselves through hell doing all they can to create the best work they possible, when other people are just taking the quick and easy root because they can. It's this idea, not any specific film, that pisses me off.

[alt0077]

so lets take another movie mentioned in this thread

Lost In Translation. its a love story, a pretty shitty one. but so what its in a beautiful city and fantastic cinematography and several other things blah blah or whatever. anyway its about love and its supposed to be all beautiful and what not.

so on the opposite end of the spectrum we have

August Underground which is disgusting and vile and dirty and gross. its filed with a lot of hatred and loss of sanity.

so just because someone takes something thats accepted like "love to an extreme. when someone takes something like hatred or torture or pain to an extreme its frowned upon and looked down upon.

yeah anyone could have made August Underground if they had enough experience. but with the right resources Peter Jackson (whos previous movies werent that great) can make Lord of the Rings.

i mean come on man, anyone can make a movie if they have an idea. fred had an idea and put it on tape the way he wanted to. and your bad mouthing his ideas.

atleast someone has some original movies unlike hundreds of bullshit remakes hollywood has put out in the past few years.

[countchocula]

Originally posted by XvoorheesX
Take it with a grain of salt. If I went out and bet up someone, yes I'm expressing what I feel, and yes, it would provoke thought. Does that make it art?

No, because you weren't intending to make a work of art. I don't think that we have the right to judge what is and what isn't "art." It's almost a personal insult to the artist, especially when you don't even know the artist's intentions.

Anyways, the point I'm making is that I think it's wrong for people to be labelled brilliant when what they're doing is cheap shock value. I have the resources and contacts to make a feature film. I don't have enough experience to make it a good movie, but I could make it absolutely vile, and for that simple fact, it would get seen and people would be talking about it. Seeing how so many filmmakers put themselves through hell doing all they can to create the best work they possible, when other people are just taking the quick and easy root because they can. It's this idea, not any specific film, that pisses me off.

R&J made an excellent point that the only people who have derided August Underground and Mordum are the ones who haven't seen them. Don't write this soon-to-be trilogy off as mangy exploitation just yet. There's obviously something here that you and I aren't privy to.

[C-Desecration-]

I wasn't talking about the acting or effects, count. I was basically just saying what xvoor' was, only he said it better (creating long shots aren't necessarily the hardest thing in the world).

atleast someone has some original movies unlike hundreds of bullshit remakes hollywood has put out in the past few years.

Oh come on. That is completely not relevent here. The TCM remake took a lot of skill, that's undeniable (to an extent). You could say Mordum is just a "remake" of some fictional snuff film. Just because people haven't done it doesn't make it original (especially when dealing with gore). I haven't seen anyone rip out someone's throat and piss in it, then force their dog to eat fingernails, but if I did it, wow, not really original. AGAIN, I have not seen Mordum, and it's all too likely that yes, I'll eat my words once I do . . . if I do.

And about the "only the people who haven't seen it bad mouth it", that's . . . sort of a stupid way of looking at things. Who's seen Mordum? Gore hounds. They like this stuff. It's like taking a bondage film and saying that everyone who's seen it loved it, well, that's because those who saught it out are turned on by that sort of thing (rough comparison, I know).
But it's also likely that things like Mordum are just are extreme character studies. One Hour photo. Very few people would say that isn't in any way art. But the kind of killer portrayed in that film is media-friendly, the poor loser who snaps. Mordum might just portray new kinds of killers. More real killers. I'm only saying this for these films, not gore flicks in general. But they seem to put a lot of weight on this "we're showing you serial killers as sick, vile people, not these sorry losers who everyone can feel sorry for."

[Romero&Juliet]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-


And about the "only the people who haven't seen it bad mouth it", that's . . . sort of a stupid way of looking at things. Who's seen Mordum? Gore hounds.

No one said that it wasn't an EXTREMELY esoteric flick. I know where you're coming from and all, but the fact is that horror is and has always been a bit of a black sheepy.

Personally, I'm glad as HELL that there are really talented genre enthusiasts out there who are reacting to the dogshit that we've been fed over the past few years.

I cant find any info on the net and I cant ff through the flick, but there are trailers at the end of the cut of Mordum I have and one of the members of toetag (MaGgot) actually made a documentary about the state of our fair genre and how, basically, its turning to shit. Props to them!

[charles lee ray]

I agree with everything that xvorheesx said.

[alt0077]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
But they seem to put a lot of weight on this "we're showing you serial killers as sick, vile people, not these sorry losers who everyone can feel sorry for."

what do you think serial killers are? i havent seen 1 hour photo, but ive watched those other 3 movies based on serial killers (dahmer, gein, gacy) and i mean come on, those movies LOOSLY follow the real story. if they would have told the real story they wouldnt have been able to be published.

good movies play with your emotions. some movies make you feel happy, some make you feel sad. august underground makes you feel dirty and disgusted and thats what it was ment to be. it shows you what its probably like in a serial killers mind.

[charles lee ray]

Originally posted by alt0077
movies are ment to be entertaining, however there is not a single movie that is entertaining to every person alive. august underground did its job in entertaining me. it made me feel dirty, it made me feel bad. but hey didnt passion of the christ do that for all the christians who saw it?

no, it made christians realize just what Jesus REALLY went through.

[charles lee ray]

Originally posted by Talking Text
I just saw the August Underground films the other day and WOW, they are true masterpeices.

you think a movie that depicts killers brutally torturing and raping little kids is a masterpiece?

[charles lee ray]

Originally posted by alt0077
Fred Vogal has so much talent, with takes that are 15 minutes plus without stopping or changing scenes. find me 1 movie released in the past 10 years that has scenes over 15 minutes. its not made to be a movie, its made to look like a snuff film and it succeeds very well at that.

wow, let's give them an award for acheiving the task of raping and killing little kids for 15 minutes at a time!!!!!

[C-Desecration-]

you think a movie that depicts killers brutally torturing and raping little kids is a masterpiece?

You think a movie where some poor girl is slammed onto a hook is a masterpiece? Where people are ripped apart and devoured?
Now yeah, I know TCM and the dead movies have more substance than this (not TCM, actually), but you get my drift. It always bugs me when people over-simply things like this.


what do you think serial killers are? i havent seen 1 hour photo, but ive watched those other 3 movies based on serial killers (dahmer, gein, gacy) and i mean come on, those movies LOOSLY follow the real story. if they would have told the real story they wouldnt have been able to be published.

The thing is, and what these mainstream character studies have proven, is that everyone has a motive. Everyone, if looked deep enough, is sympathetic to an extent. The funny thing is I have a feeling if the killers in Mordum were explored and whatnot, pyschologically, this would be considered as much art as Irreversible, maybe even more.
Not sure what that means . . .

[XvoorheesX]

atleast someone has some original movies unlike hundreds of bullshit remakes hollywood has put out in the past few years.

I'll assume that you don't know how Hollywood works. That's not a bad thing, and you may be an "insider", but by making comments like that (and a whole lot of people do), you're clearly missing something. I'll try my best to clear it up.

For everybody that says they're sick of remakes, that says to me these people haven't been around too long. Hollywood has always been adapting other works. Go back to the beginning of film history, look at hundreds of classic movies. The majority of them are adaptations of books, plays, real-life events.... All remakes. Nowadays, as I'm sure you know, it takes a hell of a lot to make a movie. It takes a hell of a lot to market and distribute a movie. There are a hell of a lot more movies being made, which means there's a hell of a lot more competition. Taking all this into account, the thought that people in Hollywood willingly put their professional lives into jeapordy by investing millions into their work is nothing short of suicidal. So it only makes sense that they'd try to reduce that risk. And they do this by going after properties that already have a distinct fan base... Comics, video games, toys... That's asses in seats. So yes, there are a lot of remakes, but there always have been a lot of remakes. They're just dipping into new pools to find material.

Besides all that, this past year alone has seen some of the most original and innovative films of recent decades. Lost in Translation, Monster, Finding Nemo, City of God, Bowling for Columbine, Elephant... Everybody on this board that follows movies knows that I could name hundreds.

Getting back to the topic, I just came home from my local film festival. I saw one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen. It was about a painter coping with his sisters death and having to take care of her small child. Everything about it was incredible. But right after that was a short film. Poorly lit, shot, and the acting was absolutely horrible. BUT... It was about the brutal murder of a three year-old. And do you know what happened during intermission?

You guessed it. Everybody was talking about the second film. "Did you believe that?" "What was the directors name?"
My jaw was literally dropped. This man had created an absolute masterpiece, but because another filmmaker knew he couldn't get himself noticed by his filmmaking skills, he chose to pull a cheap shot and get the audience's attention the only way he could. I see this more and more, and it makes me sick. People are too naive to see through a trashy gimmic, and because of this, they praise this drivel while real true filmic art is being swept under the rug. Is that what the future of film is going to be?

-My two cents are free, here's a dollar.

[charles lee ray]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
You think a movie where some poor girl is slammed onto a hook is a masterpiece? Where people are ripped apart and devoured?
Now yeah, I know TCM and the dead movies have more substance than this (not TCM, actually), but you get my drift. It always bugs me when people over-simply things like this.


you have a point, but those movies are about good versus evil and good winning... sort of... but Mordum is just murder, rape, torture... at least TCM and DOTD have acting, plot,..... you could say that Mordum has acting and plot but....:rolleyes:

[alt0077]

Originally posted by XvoorheesX
The majority of them are adaptations of books, plays, real-life events....

Poorly lit, shot, and the acting was absolutely horrible. BUT... It was about the brutal murder of a three year-old.

need i say more?

[Talking Text]

Woah, this thread has grew!

Anyway..

I don't know what Charles is on about, little kids? OH! did you meen that one kid at the end? <- highlight that by the way (a bit of a spoiler)

Mordum is not a plain old gore flick, it's not just rape and murder. You follow the serial killers around, they tape everything. Obviously, being serial killers, you're gonna watch them murder people, but it's not ALL that. I didn't have my finger above the remote control BECAUSE of the gore, gore doesn't really affect me, i have a very strong stomach. I had my finger hovering above the remote control because i was thinking "jesus, what are these fuckers going to do next??" The most sickening things wern't the gory ones.

Why can't these films be labled as masterpeices? Big deal, there independent filmmakers, that doesn't meen shit. The pure talent behind and infrount of the camera shows all the way through the flicks.

Fred vogel isn't just some schmoe with a video camera, he's even an ex-instructer at Tom Savini's special FX school, these people have a great talent, you could tell by the sheer presense of them on the screen.

Just watch it....and then gimmee your opinion. I havn't gotta clue what Charles lee ray is on about though.

[charles lee ray]

Originally posted by Talking Text
I don't know what Charles is on about, little kids? OH! did you meen that one kid at the end? <- highlight that by the way (a bit of a spoiler)

I havn't gotta clue what Charles lee ray is on about though.

here is a quote from Romero in another thread...

Originally posted by Romero&Juliet
BIG SPOILERS FOR MORDUM highlight:


hate to say it, friend, but kids do get majorly FUCKED with in this movie....

Originally posted by Romero&Juliet
Hehehehe. ;)

highlight



[COLOR=black] Like, little kids. 6 and under- and what happens to them isin't fun. At alll..




I don't remember the exact scene or scenes becasue it's been a long time since I've seen it, but Romero and Juliet does.

[Talking Text]

I have this video, i know that there's kids in it, but you don't see any get killed and you know what??

Highlight for spoilers...


the kids wern't real!

First off, the decapitated baby, obviously not real, secondly, the child in the bathtub that maggot is fucking...it's a wax work that has a little robotic feature in it's mouth that makes the lips move a bit, thirdly...erm no, that's it. All the rest of the victims had tits and/or pubic hair.

That's it mate..

[Romero&Juliet]

^^ Hey, thanks for the info! As stated in the other thread in which those quotes appeared, none of us know whetehr the kids were real or not.

[XvoorheesX]

need i say more?
Yes. Saying more would be better that saying nothing at all, and highlighting random parts of my post isn't adding anything whatsoever. My argument is that shock value will always catch people's attention. Anybody can think of something disgusting. Because of this, there is no reason to make good films anymore. Why waste your time writing a great story or creating great characters and writing amazing scenes when it's easier to just gross everybody out? At least then people will talk about your movie. And heck, some people might even call you brilliant because you decide to show little kids getting raped and murdered. Is that the future of film? Well, if everybody thought like this Fred Vogel guy... *Twilight zone them ensues*

It makes me absolutely sick.

[Romero&Juliet]

Originally posted by XvoorheesX


Getting back to the topic, I just came home from my local film festival. I saw one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen. It was about a painter coping with his sisters death and having to take care of her small child. Everything about it was incredible. But right after that was a short film. Poorly lit, shot, and the acting was absolutely horrible. BUT... It was about the brutal murder of a three year-old. And do you know what happened during intermission?

You guessed it. Everybody was talking about the second film. "Did you believe that?" "What was the directors name?"
My jaw was literally dropped. This man had created an absolute masterpiece, but because another filmmaker knew he couldn't get himself noticed by his filmmaking skills, he chose to pull a cheap shot and get the audience's attention the only way he could. I see this more and more, and it makes me sick. People are too naive to see through a trashy gimmic, and because of this, they praise this drivel while real true filmic art is being swept under the rug. Is that what the future of film is going to be?




XVoorheees, if i didn't know you better I'd say that you are the most jaded movie fan on the entire fucking planet! :P

Okay, with regards to that analogy, you're really not getting the point that film is very much an evolving medium of expression. People are getting SO much freedom in terms of the kind of content and explicit material that they are allowed to include in their pictures - and the fact that mabye the latter short, whcih dealt with such a theme, is just exercising its right to say what it wanted to..

Who are you to say its a horrible cheap shot when its obvious that the latter flick really got to the masses on a gut level? Afterall, good art is universal.


My two cents are free: bring a shotgun to the Nickel Festival tonight, you'll get the point across.

[Talking Text]

XvoorheesX,

Mordum isn't just a disgusting movie. It's not just a movie that's meant to gross you out.
First of all, the movie's intention is to show you the "real" mind of a serial killer, secondly, this movie also focuses on the mental breakdown of the group, lastly, shock value.

R&J,

Honestly the kids wern't real, and if they were, well..

SPOILERS!

That's a dead baby, it had it's head cut off all the way through. The kid in the bathtub though, it's a wax-work. Still very fucked up..very.

[XvoorheesX]

Who are you to say its a horrible cheap shot when its obvious that the latter flick really got to the masses on a gut level?

My point is...

there is no reason to make good films anymore. Why waste your time writing a great story or creating great characters and writing amazing scenes when it's easier to just gross everybody out? At least then people will talk about your movie.

R&J: Play pool with me and Goosney tomorrow, and we can settle this debate with fisticuff's behid the brass rack. ;)

[Romero&Juliet]

Well, no, I was only questioning whether the latter, the grannnd finale, was a real person or not..

obviously the first one wasnt'......or...was it?!

and you're right, Talking Text. The kind of character development and chemistry between the leads in these flicks are incomparable. I'm still baffled with the leads' acting abilities, especially Krusty's and people are obviously going to overlook that. Which is a huuuge shame.

[Romero&Juliet]

Voorhees: I'm not arguing anymore.. I've had this same argument about twelve times.

That schmoe ship has sailed.

Pool is out tomorrow. there's a tournament. This shalll be settled.

[C-Desecration-]

Okay, with regards to that analogy, you're really not getting the point that film is very much an evolving medium of expression. People are getting SO much freedom in terms of the kind of content and explicit material that they are allowed to include in their pictures - and the fact that mabye the latter short, whcih dealt with such a theme, is just exercising its right to say what it wanted to..


I'm backing that 100% (like anyone cares). Things like rape, very visceral murders, etc., are now JUST being allowed to be shown in films, so of course people will experiment with it! Each of those things brings unique emotions, actions, situations, etc. with them, and writers will flock to it because it's new and exciting. Sometimes they'll succeed, sometimes they'll fail.

[Nekroman]

I like these flicks because they do what other movies don't have the balls to do. Be genuine horror in every sense of the word. Horror is meant to disgust, terrify, etc. And though these flicks don't have that effect on me I do see how incredibly graphic and realistic they are so I know they are doing their job.
I agree that Vogel and Schneider have an artistic vision. Whether one chooses to call these art or not. But art is suppoed to get people riled up. And these movies do, oftentimes from people who haven't even seen them.
On a side note I recommend fans to see both the Vogel and Maggot cuts of Mordum. They are quite different.

[Talking Text]

Well, i heard,

that maggot was being a complete knob jocky and went against the company selling bootlegs...this was his cut. Maggot's now been chucked out of toe tag for doing so.

I can't see his name in the "dead staff" pics.

[charles lee ray]

Originally posted by Talking Text
Well, i heard,

that maggot was being a complete knob jocky and went against the company selling bootlegs...this was his cut. Maggot's now been chucked out of toe tag for doing so.

I can't see his name in the "dead staff" pics.

good, isn't he the one that fucked the girl in the bathtub?. if so he was my least favorite killer along with the woman killer. the original 2 killers are the best IMO.

[Talking Text]

Yeah, he's the one.

[Nekroman]

Yeah I heard the same thing about Maggot (AKA Michael Schneider) and naturally I won't get involved in the Schneider/ Vogel debate but it is interesting to see both cuts. In the Schneider version we see loads of Maggot while in the official Vogel version we see very little. Hell, he's not even in the first ten minutes. That's all Fred and Crusty screaming the F word at each other.

[Talking Text]

Do you still see that scene in the maggot cut? I mean, when Fred smashes that lad on the 'ed with his hammer?

Is there any stand out scene in the maggot cut that's not in the Fred one? if so, describe a bit.

Is anyone gonna see the new one, personally i'm really looking forward to it. Fred's told me that it's a proper movie with some "found footage" type stuff as well, hope it's good.

[Romero&Juliet]

Originally posted by Talking Text
Do you still see that scene in the maggot cut? I mean, when Fred smashes that lad on the 'ed with his hammer?

Is there any stand out scene in the maggot cut that's not in the Fred one? if so, describe a bit.

Is anyone gonna see the new one, personally i'm really looking forward to it. Fred's told me that it's a proper movie with some "found footage" type stuff as well, hope it's good.

T'would appear that I have the Maggot cut.. that other hammer scene sounds DELIGHTFUL!

I cant WAIT for the new feature.. :)

[blagtr99]

WOW!
How'd I miss this thread?

Great Flicks!!!What a fright!!!
And if they weren't great, no one would be talking about them. right!?!
There is alot of disgusting things going on but if that's all your getting out of it I think your missing the big picture.
Can't wait until AUGUST UNDERGROUND:PENANCE comes out, I heard closer to the end of the year.

:D

[charles lee ray]

blag, which version did you sell me?

[Talking Text]

Well on the proper one, what i have. The first ten minutes is just Fred and Crusty screaming at each other, they go to a junkies place and kill him too. I don't think thats on the maggot cut (athough i havn't seen it). Is the part where Crusty cuts her self open with the glass on Maggot's cut?

[blagtr99]

The first version I had was the MAGGOT version. I just recently got the legit dvd version at a convention.
I personally liked the MAGGOT cut a little better. It just feels more genuine. Although there are some scenes completely missing from both cuts.