Bowling for Columbine

[moviegroupie]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008DDVV.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Just saw this one for the first time tonight, and I liked it overall. At times it was off-topic, never truly answered the question, went over-the-top to prove Moore wasn't racist, but it made me start thinking: Why do places like Canada not have as many deaths from guns as we do? The documentary seems to slightly point the finger at Charles Heston, but it suggests more than that. And that's what I liked about it!

8.5/10 (less in your face than Fahrenheit 9/11, more open-minded)


What did you guys think?

EDIT: I would like to get out Roger & Me and see how that compares, but my local Netflix distributor says: Long Wait :(

[MichiganFlynn]

Canada may not have as many gun deaths as America, but we certainly have many gun SHOOTINGS (something Moore didn't mention in his film).

I liked BFC the first time I saw it, until I found out the truth. There's a ton of faults in the film, especially regarding Dick Clark and Charlton Heston. The part that struck me the most was the scene involving the little boy who shot Kayla, and moore tried to present her as a hardworking mother, when it was already well known she was a crack addict, and had lost two of her children to social services, and has now lost the boy who shot the girl.

Original viewing - 9/10

After viewing faults - 3/10

There's some great views on why America is the way it is, but there's simply too much bullshit in the way to really present valid points. That seems to be a figurehead for moore, present the facts anyway you can, even if it means lying to prove them.

[moviegroupie]

whoah it dropped that much from fake facts? A quite interesting perspective, thanks for that!

...Others?

[MichiganFlynn]

I don't hate Moore, I just find that he distorts the facts and makes it seem somethign entirely else.

Some other points:

1: Charlton Heston never held a "pro gun rally" following the death of Kayla. The so called gun rally was actually an election rally (if you pause during the scene, you can clearly see voter signs). This rally was held SIX months following Kayla's death, yet Moore makes it seem like Heston and the NRA just walzted in following her death and slapped the people in the face.

2: Moore never went to the bank and just picked up a gun, following his application. The movie makes it seem like Moore just went in, filled out an application, got a gun and walked out proudly with rifle in his hands. The truth was, Moore had to wait several hours following his application, got a full background check, had to give the bank a thousand dollars, produce photo identification, making it impossible for someone to rob the bank.

The whole scene was staged, and set up two months prior to shooting. The guns are actually located in a vault almost four hours away. Although it is true someone can sign up and recieve a gun (not uncommon in many areas), the process makes it impossible for a would be robber to simply hold up the bank after receiving the gun.

3: Moore makes it seem like Dick Clark is, well, a dick because he gave a job to a woman on welfare. The fact was, Tamarla Owens had three different children with three diferent fathers. Was charged as a drug dealer and married a convicted drug dealer. Before the shootings, she abandoned her son to her brother, who was a well known drug addict and dealer. She also lost all three of her children after being reported she was a poor mother, two of those are lost permanently.

Yet Dick Clark is looked like an asshole because he "forced" poor mothers to make fudge for rich people. Dick Clark gave a job to a woman so she could help get off welfare, and he's the asshole? Please.

4: The boy who shot Kayla, was already suspended from school for stabbing a girl, yet was allowed to return. Blaming Dick Clark because he gave a job to a woman to get off welfare makes as much sense as finding Paris Hilton attractive. Moore makes it look like the boy was innocent, when he was brought up in a terrible home, beaten numerous times previously, and was abandoned by his mother. Nevermind that, Dick Clark was just a prick because he gives jobs to poor mothers.

You can find a ton moore on bowlingfortruth.com, moorelies.com and many other sites that offer PROPER references with PROOF unlike many sites that many simply brush aside. Hope it helps!

[moviegroupie]

Lots of what you say does make me question whether or not what Moore has said is true. But how can it be that the rally (vote) was held 6 months after kayla's death? Moore went to Heston's house and questioned him about. Heston never denied, if it were true that the rally (election) was held 6 months later, don't you think Charles would've mentioned that?

Sidenote: perhaps it's because the guy has Alzheimers, but i'll give you an opportunity to answer that one.


and i'm not trying to defend Moore in any way, i'm open minded and in no way biased. Whether his facts are true or not, he does provide a decent amount of entertainment to the table.

[smittyhines]

here is something you might want to check out


How to Deal with the Lies and the Lying Liars When They Lie about "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/)

[MichiganFlynn]

Originally posted by smittyhines
here is something you might want to check out


How to Deal with the Lies and the Lying Liars When They Lie about "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/)

Oh lord. If you are trying to defend moore's stupid antics, use something OTHER than his website which is full of crap.

I especially LOVE this one:

The oddest of all the smears thrown at "Bowling for Columbine" is this one:

"The film depicts NRA president Charlton Heston giving a speech near Columbine; he actually gave it a year later and 900 miles away. The speech he did give is edited to make conciliatory statements sound like rudeness."

Um, yeah, that's right! I made it up! Heston never went there! He never said those things!


Wow! Hey Mr. Moore, we NEVER said he didn't go there! We said you changed his speech and the purpose of his visit entirely to make it look like he just simply walked up to Columbine following the murders and gave up a pro gun speech.

I also love how he doesn't address the Dick Clark propaganda, or how Tamarla Owens was a convicted drug dealer, prior to her son shooting Kayla.

Any other bullshit you want to feed my way? Again, I have nothing against Mr. Moore, I just hate how he does his films. He purposely leaves out facts, or changes them to his advantage. He distorts the original purpose of the film, and isn't that really what a documentary should be?

Spouting off shit from the bible of Michael Moore, give me a fucking break.

This is the same guy who claims to be for the little people, owns a million dollar home, charged the families of the victims of columbine for admission to see his movie, REFUSES to give interviews based on factual inaccuracies in his film (but it's okay to walk right up to Dick Clark and demand to know what he thinks about his welfare to work program, then gets pissed when Clark refuses to have an interview right then and there), AND has had his new film distributed by the Helzbollah!

Forget all that. I always forget how anyone, even remotely interested in guns is a "nut". How he claims to live in a small apartment, when he admitted he lives in a large mansion. How, when asked about problems in his films, he simply stonewalls the question and moves on. For someone who claims to be fighting for the truth, he certainly has a great way of showing it!

Nuff said.

[MichiganFlynn]

Originally posted by moviegroupie
Lots of what you say does make me question whether or not what Moore has said is true. But how can it be that the rally (vote) was held 6 months after kayla's death? Moore went to Heston's house and questioned him about. Heston never denied, if it were true that the rally (election) was held 6 months later, don't you think Charles would've mentioned that?

Sidenote: perhaps it's because the guy has Alzheimers, but i'll give you an opportunity to answer that one.


Kayla Rolland was shot on February 29, 2000. The "pro gun rally" that Heston attended, was in October 2000. Look up any credible news source for this one. I'd love to see Moore's response to this, but of course this is just a "wacko attacko" and i'll simply be stonewalled for asking.

(Here's just a little more on this):

Moore says that "after that happened, you came to flint and had a big rally." Heston says "so did the vice President." Another point that refutes Moore's dishonest claim - but we don't know it because earlier in the movie we were told that Heston's rally in flint was a big 'pro-gun rally' and were made to think it was insensitive to gun attacks. The reality was that it was that it was a 'get out to vote rally' that yes, the likes of vice president Al Gore & Michael Moore himself even attended.

Heston's memory of the Flint event is foggy (he says it was a morning event; in fact the rally was at 6 - 7:30 PM.). Heston's lack of recall is not surprising; it was one rally in a nine-stop tour of three States in three days.

But Moore, who has been preparing information and details on this for months (compared to Hestons off the cuff recollection), continues the false impression he has created, asking Heston questions such as: "After that happened you came to Flint to hold a big rally and, you know, I just, did you feel it was being at all insensitive to the fact that this community had just gone through this tragedy?" Moore continues, "you think you'd like to apologize to the people in Flint for coming and doing that at that time?"



And I totally agree with you. Love him or hate him, he's still entertaining. It's just too bad people have to look bad in front of him.

[rvd420]

Originally posted by moviegroupie
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008DDVV.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Just saw this one for the first time tonight, and I liked it overall. At times it was off-topic, never truly answered the question, went over-the-top to prove Moore wasn't racist, but it made me start thinking: Why do places like Canada not have as many deaths from guns as we do? The documentary seems to slightly point the finger at Charles Heston, but it suggests more than that. And that's what I liked about it!

8.5/10 (less in your face than Fahrenheit 9/11, more open-minded)


What did you guys think?

EDIT: I would like to get out Roger & Me and see how that compares, but my local Netflix distributor says: Long Wait :(

Every american should see this movie!
and Roger&Me is a great movie
http://www.newint.org/issue205/Images/rogerpic.jpg

[moviegroupie]

Originally posted by MichiganFlynn
Kayla Rolland was shot on February 29, 2000. The "pro gun rally" that Heston attended, was in October 2000. Look up any credible news source for this one. I'd love to see Moore's response to this, but of course this is just a "wacko attacko" and i'll simply be stonewalled for asking.

(Here's just a little more on this):

Moore says that "after that happened, you came to flint and had a big rally." Heston says "so did the vice President." Another point that refutes Moore's dishonest claim - but we don't know it because earlier in the movie we were told that Heston's rally in flint was a big 'pro-gun rally' and were made to think it was insensitive to gun attacks. The reality was that it was that it was a 'get out to vote rally' that yes, the likes of vice president Al Gore & Michael Moore himself even attended.

Heston's memory of the Flint event is foggy (he says it was a morning event; in fact the rally was at 6 - 7:30 PM.). Heston's lack of recall is not surprising; it was one rally in a nine-stop tour of three States in three days.

But Moore, who has been preparing information and details on this for months (compared to Hestons off the cuff recollection), continues the false impression he has created, asking Heston questions such as: "After that happened you came to Flint to hold a big rally and, you know, I just, did you feel it was being at all insensitive to the fact that this community had just gone through this tragedy?" Moore continues, "you think you'd like to apologize to the people in Flint for coming and doing that at that time?"



And I totally agree with you. Love him or hate him, he's still entertaining. It's just too bad people have to look bad in front of him.

well thanks for clarifying that. So I have my facts straight, does Heston truly does have alsheimers or that he had so much going on, he can't remember? Or both?

[MichiganFlynn]

Originally posted by moviegroupie
well thanks for clarifying that. So I have my facts straight, does Heston truly does have alsheimers or that he had so much going on, he can't remember? Or both?

Could be a little bit of both, but i'm leaning more on that he had so much to do, and since it was quite awhile ago when he was interviewed, his memory was a little clear. I'd say these days Heston is a little more worse for wear, but he's still held his own by simply refusing to talk about that interview.

Also, it should be noted that the pro-gun rally held in Columbine was actually planned several years prior to the shootings. It was a mandatory meeting, and was actually supposed to take three days, as opposed to one. The rally was cut down in respect for the shootings, but there was no way they could not hold it. I'm not totally sure on what the NRA does, but i've heard it's a legal requirement set by the government to hold these meetings, no matter what happens.