Memento [Archive] - Movie Fan Central Discussion Forums

Brock Landers

04-06-2001, 02:03 PM

*SPOILERS*

I've been looking forward to this flick ever since I got the April 2001 Total Magazine DVD trailer, and I finally saw it last night... twice...

It was playing at this little arthouse theater next to the local university, and let me tell you, there were only 9 people including myself at the screening, and it ROCKED... Great F**king Movie!

I like it better than "The Usual Suspects"... i mean, there is no real comparison except for the "twist factor", which in the case of "Memento", it just keeps twisting all the way until the end...

Some of my favorite parts include the "spit in the beer scene" in the bar, the "insulin"/remember "Sammy" part, I mean, how cool was that when it turns out leonard may have killed his wife...not to mention the ending, or should I say the beginning, where we learn Leonard's need to never solve the mystery, he doesn't even really want to... aso Pantoliano talking about being able to repeat the same jokes over and over again was pretty funny, not to mention something to think about in broader terms...

Some of the other cool characters besides Pearce, Pantoliano and the chick are the desk clerk with the wierd facial hair...he was also in Steve Buscemi's "Trees Lounge" and "Animal factory", and the guy who played Dodd is one of my favorite canadian actors, he was in Don mcKellar's "Last Night" playing the sex freak... great stuff...

Should it win an Oscar? Yes. Will it? Probably not, unless it's for screenplay, like the award to Brian singer for "The Usual Suspects"...

The shport story was written by the director's brother Johnathan Nolan, and hasn't been published yet, besides the director Christopher Nolan changed it a bunch...

Great Shit! more later... /ubb/wink.gif

vahe

04-06-2001, 08:50 PM

You know you are in the hands of a master when one of the most exciting scenes in the movie involves the frantic search for a PEN!
Just to come up with a narrative this deliciously complex is a great achievement, but working it out so thoroughly that it all somehow coheres is ...well, I'm speechless!

ToasT

04-14-2001, 11:34 AM

There was a brief scene in the movie that had Lenny on his bed with his wife. That was ok to me untill i noticed the Tatoos on his chest, including the one that said John G. raped and murdered my wife. How could that be when his wife isn't dead yet?

The Professional

04-14-2001, 11:48 AM

That wasn't his wife.

Parchai

04-15-2001, 12:48 PM

***********SPOILER*****************
That was'nt his wife but a dirty dirty whore he hired so that he could feel like his wife was still there. . . or so the Germans would have us believe.

The Professional

04-15-2001, 01:42 PM

Wait, maybe it was his wife. I have a pirate copy on my PC. they messed up hehheh. good movie though.

Raena

04-15-2001, 04:46 PM

SPOILERS:

Question about the ending: Wouldn't you do the same thing if you were him? I probably would.

Raena

04-15-2001, 05:58 PM

SPOILERS BELOW:

Roger Ebert brought up a great point in his review of MEMENTO. Here's an excerpt:

I have here a message from Vasudha Gandhi of Queens Village,N.Y., about the movie "Memento":

"Although I loved the film, I don't understand one key plot-point. If the last thing the main character remembers is his wife dying,then how does he remember that he has short-term memory loss?"

Michael Cusumano of Philadelphia writes with the same query. They may have identified a hole big enough to drive the entire plot through. Perhaps a neurologist can provide a medical answer, but I prefer to believe that Leonard, the hero of the film, has a condition similar to Tom Hanks' "brain cloud" in "Joe vs.the Volcano"--Leonard suffers from a condition brought on by a screenplay that finds it necessary, and it's unkind of us to inquire too deeply.

I think it's a great point. What do you all think?

[This message has been edited by Raena (edited 04-15-2001).]

The Professional

04-15-2001, 06:10 PM

(**Spoiler**)

Hey, that's wrong. his wife wasn't killed if you listened to teddy's last speech(or first depending on which way you look at it). teddy said his wife survived the assault and he was brain damaged and teddy found the guy
who assaulted her and he killed him. lenny's wife was the diabetic and died that way. teddy said that lenny constructed the revenge plot in his mind.

Bud_Fox

04-16-2001, 09:34 AM

Close but no cigar Professional. ****spoliers****** 1. Don't believe Teddy's lies 2.Remember Sammy Jenkins- I believe "Remember Sammy Jenkins" was one of his first tatooes, and for a few reasons. First to remind himself constantly of his condition. Being that his long term memory is perfectly in tact he will always remember everything about Sammy. And the one crucial thing he Learned and Remembered was that Sammy could not be conditioned to Remember Anything short term, (ex. the electrocuted triangle he kept picking up). So in regard to short term memories people could, and did manipulate Leonard making him believe things not to be true when they only happed a short while ago. But! they couldn't alter his long term memory! That's why Leonard wrote "don't Believe his lies" on the back of Teddy's picture. Toward the end of the film when Teddy was ranting trying to convince Leonard how he killed his own wife, Leonard himself thought back (to his long term memory) and for a moment saw himself on his old bed injecting his wife. But then Leonard thought harder and realized that he was just pinching her not injecting her!!! Leonards long term Memory is Perfect. Why do you think the screen writer specifically wrote the line "Please don't call me Lenny, that's what my wife called me." All his memories before the head injury are 100% in tact. The night his wife was killed he remembers it perfectley, including all the items in the room; the clock, the book his wife read over and over. Remember Leonard recalling his wife reading the book, and he said don't you get tired of that book, because she had read it so many times. Understand People??? Leonard is not Sammy, nor did Leonard kill his own wife. The only things he was sure of is what happened before the blow to the head.

I believe Teddy was the cop that originally investigated the Murder of Leonards wife and realized very quickly of Leonards condition. After finding John G. and killing him (the bloody polaroid of Leaonard smiling without a shirt on) Teddy used Leonard to kill drug dealers by convincing him that they were involved in the death of his wife. But then again you don't know for certain if that picture is what Teddy says it was, therefore you don't know if the killer was ever caught. And who took out the missing pages of the police report?? Teddy because those are pages stating the cased was closed because they got the killer??? Dude my head hurts just thinking about all the undotted "i"s and uncrossed "t"s

However I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that 1.Leonards wife was murdered (suffocated by the shower curtain as recalled by Lenny's long term memory, before the head injury and 2. He did not kill his wife, because he is not and never was Sammy Jenkins. He is Leonard a former Insurance Investigator, now simply a shell of his former self suffering from the inability to form short term memories, driven by Revenge, guided by pictures and notes tatooed on his body.

[This message has been edited by Bud_Fox (edited 04-16-2001).]

AXE

04-18-2001, 02:54 AM

Just discovered this topic about Memento and looks like I'm not the only one who has seen Leonard on the bed with his wife AND the tattoo. Not quite finished with your story Bud_fox but I just noticed something. Learned en Leonard is differs just 1 letter. Maybe a clue from the Nolan brothers?

JoBlo

04-18-2001, 03:44 AM

I pretty much agree with most of what Bud Fox has to say in this regard, although I still think that Leonard was partly Sammy Jenkins:

1- If the last thing the main character remembers is his wife dying,then how does he remember that he has short-term memory loss?"

I don't see this as this "huge" plot hole, as Ebert seems to think. Just like he writes notes down for himself to remember to SHAVE and such, he probably wrote himself a note reminding himself of his own condition (although they don't show this, I just kinda assumed it- not a major stretch, in my opinion). In fact, maybe that's what the "Remember Sammy Jenkins" tattoo on his hand is for...

Also, if you visit the official MEMENTO site, you'll note that Leonard spend quite a bit of time in the psych ward before bailing to find the killer of his wife, so I'm assuming the doctors there also reminded him of his condition every day.

AXE

04-18-2001, 07:10 AM

Can nobody explain the scene where he's in bed with his wife and the tattoo? I'm getting a little frustrated over this.

Bud_Fox

04-18-2001, 09:12 AM

I too need an answer to that Axe, so this way I can keep my eyes peeled next time I see this film in the very near future.

The Professional

04-19-2001, 08:34 AM

Bud_fox 1.He wrote that after he wanted teddy to be his John G.(so he couldn't convince him otherwise). and 2. i think your right. of course nothing can be proven.

Gus

05-05-2001, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by Bud_Fox:
[B]

After finding John G. and killing him (the bloody polaroid of Leaonard smiling without a shirt on.....B]

Question: if there was a true and real John (or James) G., then how did Leonard know that much about his name? Where did he get that information?

NexSplbrg

05-08-2001, 07:37 PM

Has the potential to be the best film of 2001. I've seen it once but i have a copy promo copy and can watch it any time i want :) It deserves many many Oscars but is too smart for the academy. If you think i'm lying than look at the 2000 oscars when "Fight Club" was shut out except for sound editing.

tomit2000

05-09-2001, 12:44 PM

My Opinion:

Spoilers Alert

The Sammy Jarfis story is a complete fabrication created by Leonard because he couldn't handle the fact that he accidentaly killed his wife. In a way Sammy is his alter ego.
Then we move onto the actual plot:
1) Teddie tells Leonard that he caught the man who raped his wife months ago. This is true.

2) Teddie then learns about his disorder & manipulates Leonard for his own means i.e killing the drug dealer (natalies boyfriend) who's name is John G. Like Always Leonard takes a photo of the body to remind himself of what he's done

3)Leonard discovers this after killing John G

4) Then to exact revenge on Teddie for making him believe John G was the man who raped his wife. He burns the photo, to stop himself from remembering he had already killed his wife. He also has a tattoo written that Teddies car reg plate is that of the Rapist

5) He then manipulates his information (because he knows he will forget he doctored it later on) i.e. the note on Teddies photo saying "don't believe his lies"

6) Then Teddie makes the mistake of saying his real name is John G. This is actually a coincidence

7)Leonard takes the info given to him by Natalie and in his own mind realises that Teddie raped his wife. (forgetting he changed the info earlier so that later on he would actually believe Teddie killed his wife

8) Leonard Kills Teddie

Reeltalk

05-09-2001, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by normjr:
I agree, it is nice to see that JoBlo has a 10/10. They are rare. But so are outstanding movies. I was just hoping that someone knew where this playing. Limited release? Nation wide release? Anybody got any answers give me a line or post here? Basically, HELP? I want to see. I live in San Fransisco. The obviouse question I have(But I am a rookie schmoe) Where did you see it JoBlow?

Reeltalk

05-09-2001, 12:52 PM

Not since Fargo has a movie impressed and engrossed me as thoroughly as Memento. I recommend all wannabe filmwriters see it, preferably more than once, so it becomes their model of how to get it right. Bravo to Chris Nolan! Going to be experiencing a lot of fitful sleep awaiting the release of his new film Insomnia. (starring Al Pacino)

Bud_Fox

05-09-2001, 01:21 PM

reeltalk- go to the official memento website: www.otnemem.com (http://www.otnemem.com) and from there you will click release info, and then click venues and you'll see it's playing (or was, hopefully still is) playing @ Embarcadero in San Fran CA. And whatever you do don't get up to go to the bathroom if you miss even a minute you'll miss a lot.

normjr

05-10-2001, 01:12 AM

Dude, Bud_Fox, you really thought about this movie. To all those poeple who think they saw Lenny in bed with his wife and with tatoo's you might have seen the remeber Sammy Jenkins tat, but that is it. I promise you. not many people have discussed the cinamatography of this film but it needs to be discussed here. All the long term memories and flash back's were in a different tone. It was shot using a lot of tans and browns and almost black and white. And he didn't have any tatoos in those scenes. And did anyone catch it when the past and the present merged. The use of camera's and filtters in that sequence was amazing.
Second, to the people who thought they was a plot hole you forget the reason for the tatoo. "Remeber Sammy Jenkins" regaurdless of the condition, any person can be taught to remeber things by associating them with long term memroies. Lenny's condition happens so quickly that he can not associate people with people from his past. However: with time and concentration. )the kind of time and consentration that one would get in therapy from being locked up in mental ward.) you can learn to associate a present condition by remebering a tatoo. Remeber Sammy Jnekins means that lenny has the same condition. This may sound like I'm full of it, but you'll have to trust me. I've been researching the working of the mind for a story I'm writting.
Bud_Fox, I don't agree with your interpitation of the movie but I do think that we will never know. I think lenny is in part Sammy and is in part being used by Teddy. I also belive that his wife survived the attack. You see her breathing and blinking under the shower curtain. But I'm also comfortable with the fact that we all get something different form it.
Those of you have only seen the movie you need to also check out the website. It will answer a lot of questions and give you more questions to ponder.
Plus I'm still looking for a copy of the short story it is based on. Can anyone help?

luwe

05-10-2001, 07:49 PM

this might be a huge hole. when lenny choked and killed natalies boyfriend, the drug dealer, he took his car and clothes, didn't natalie realize that he was wearing her boyfriends clothes and driving his jag?

cow

05-10-2001, 09:37 PM

she did. thats why she thought lenny was her boyfriend when he first pulled up in the jag.

phunk

05-12-2001, 11:38 PM

I just saw Memento tonight, so it's pretty fresh in my mind, but I need someone to tell me if I'm crazy or not...In all the posts that talked about the scene at the end with leonard and his wife, no one seems to have mentioned the tatoo that said "I did it." So I'm wondering if i was seeing things. It was in the same place that he's pointing to in the picture that teddy gives him that was taken after he killed the "real attacker." It's also the place that Natalie points to the morning after Leonard spent the night and she sees his tatoos, when Leonard says "Maybe I'm saving that for when I kill him" (or something like that, it's not that fresh). Can someone help me out here?

normjr

05-13-2001, 03:31 AM

I am going to see it again, but I'm prety sure about this. The seen at the very end of the movie, where he is laying in bed with a woman. He has a tatoo that says I did it. But the woman is not his wife. The woman is Carrie-ann Moss. The person I saw it with the first time was confused because he thought the two women looked similar and you never get a good look at Lenny's wife. But I am pretty sure that it was Carrie-ann Moss. And I also think that is what all of these people are talking about with him being with his wife and with the tatoos. When he kills John G at the end and the to time lines of the movie come together he gets together with Carrie-ann Mos and the final scene is with him in bed with her. Anybody think I'm wrong please let me know.

Kensh

05-13-2001, 02:41 PM

I thought it was his wife lying with him, and the tattoo on his chest said "I've Done It". I took that to mean that his long-term memory IS fallible, just as he says to Teddy early in the film. (Remember, he says facts are the only way to prove anything; memories can change the facts.) So either (a) it's a made-up memory, or (b) it's a fantasy showing what he *really* wants, which of course is not possible since his wife is dead.

About Sammy Jankis... I'm inclined to believe that Teddy was telling the truth. Leonard *is* Sammy, or more precisely Leonard fabricated Sammy and displaced his own guilty memories to Sammy. Leonard is the one who killed his diabetic wife. Otherwise, wouldn't that be a pretty huge coincidence that he and one of his clients both had the exact same super-rare condition? That also might explain where the missing pages of the police report went -- they say that Leonard (accidentally) killed his wife. Too painful to remember, so he just *snip* edits his memories.

[This message has been edited by Kensh (edited 05-13-2001).]

mirosen

05-15-2001, 01:15 PM

** Spoiler **

I think that the last scene in the movie -- Leonard in bed with the woman and the "I Did It" tattoo -- came after Leonard killed Teddy. The final scene was shot in the same style as the movie's other "out of time sequence" scenes. And we know that Leonard has, on occasion, hired a prostitute to stand in for his wife when he wants to remember her. What better time to "revisit" his wife than after he remembers (because of the tattoo) that he has avenged her death?

I think that Leonard probably had killed before, probably with some help from Teddy, but that he did not remember it long enough to get the tattoo. Otherwise, we need to come up with an explanation that involves tattoo removal, which is possible, but which seems unlikely.

pasha

05-17-2001, 03:28 AM

*** SPOILERS ***

I just saw the movie for the first time tonight, and I can't wait to see it again!! I'm entertaining conflicting theories about The Truth, and I've been poring over the web site (http://www.otnemem.com -- check it out). I thought I'd throw in a couple of observations that haven't been made before on this site. Most of what I say comes from the official Memento site.

1. The rape of Lenny's wife occured on February 24, 1997. The police report on the man that Lenny shot describes Lenny's wife as "unresponsive at the scene" but does not say that she was dead. It doesn't explicitly say that she survived, but I think that that can reasonably be inferred.

2. Lenny spent a considerable amount of time in a psychiatric hospital. He was admitted to the hospital as a ward of the state. His initial diagnosis was made on January 16, 1998 -- almost a full year after being injured. Furthermore, notes made by the doctors in the hospital refer to his late wife. If she survived the attack, she must have died since then. This jibes very well with the hypothesis that Lenny is Sammy Jankis: after the injury, he lives with his wife; he gives her too much insulin, so she dies; he becomes a ward of the state and is put in the psych hospital.

3. In the hospital, the doctors confirm that Lenny cannot create new memories, but they are puzzled by the fact that he has learned to mistrust them and keep a journal. This may be the "conditioning" that Lenny talks about, and he may be conditioned in this way into knowing that he has the condition that he does. This solves Ebert's plot-hole. Or perhaps Lenny is faking the whole thing, just as he accuses Sammy of doing....but he later does things that he probably wouldn't do if he were faking.

4. The doctors seem to believe that there was no "second rapist" in the bathroom when Lenny's wife was raped. But Lenny shot the one man in the forehead. It's implausible that he hit Lenny before dying. There has to be a second rapist, doesn't there?

5. I'm almost positive that the tattoo he gets on his thigh says that John G's license plate number ends in 71U (seven-one-u), but Teddy's real plate ends in 7IU (seven-i-u). This is because the note that he makes of Teddy's plate is ambiguous as to whether it's an I or a 1, and the tattoo artist makes a mistake. When Natalie runs a background check on the plate, she runs it on 7IU, not 71U, but she says that he has 7IU on his thigh. Does this imply that she already knows Teddy? Also, the copy of Teddy's driver's license that Natalie gives to Lenny reveals two interesting things: it gives Teddy's address as San Francisco; and it expired in 1981!!!! The "present time" of the movie is October or November of 1999!! (It may be '98. I'm basing that on the police report on the official site that is too small to be easily legible. I saved the graphic and blew it up. I've made out most of the text. It's a synopsis of an interview with the person who gives Lenny the tattoo of Teddy's license plate number, in which she describes the incident surrounding that tattooing. The date on the report is 11/4, and the year is either 98 or 99. I'm fairly sure that it's 99.) I'm not quite sure what to make of Teddy's expired driver's license, but it is certainly interesting.

My competing theories about The Truth of the movie are these:
- Teddy tells the truth at the end of the movie. Lenny is Sammy Jankis. He's killed before, but he can't remember it.
- Teddy lies at the end. He is the "real" John G. I'm skeptical about this one.
- There is no coherent story. In order to make it coherent, we have to ignore certain facts. We have to deceive ourselves in order to understand the movie, just as Lenny has to deceive himself to continue his search for John G.

Wow. My brain is fried. I'm going to sleep. But what a movie!!!

Deckard

05-17-2001, 07:39 AM

Check out the official site...There is a pop up newspaper article that contains links to all the info you need to solve the puzzle (or confirm your theories)-

******SPOILERS********

I must say there are a lot of crazy theories flying around like- "That his wife is alive" No she is not- this was the trigger for his "condition".
The site also has Lennys psychological reports & letters he writes to himself creating an alternate reality, while institutionalized.

There are tons more but these are 2 things I thought were made crystal clear in the movie. Anyway check out the official site its absaolutely great, almost like watching the film again in your head as everything is confirmed.

hila6963

05-18-2001, 12:55 AM

The Short story that Memento is based on was published in the March edition of Esquire Magazine. It is titled "Memento Mori" and was written by Jonathan Nolan who also wrote the film's web site. It is also avaible online at
http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/001323_mfr_memento_1.html

hila6963

05-18-2001, 01:08 AM

Deckard

05-18-2001, 03:02 AM

Wow, thanks Hila, great link........perfect.

normjr

05-19-2001, 02:18 AM

First and foremost, to hila6963, THANK YOU< THANK YOU< THANK YOU> I love you and the ground you walk on. I was having the worst time finding this story and I knew it existed somewhere. My hats off to you and the great advice.

And to Pasha. Lenny knew the plate number was 7IU. The setting of the story is in Los Angeles California. All License plates issued in California consist of a number followed by three letters and finish with three more numbers. All plates look like this (except for personalised plates, which are special requests so getting seven random letters and numbers would be stupid.) Just thought you should know that. I had no problem assuming that teh plate was 7IU not 71U. I think that the tatoo was one that he did himself and therefor was not done very well.
Again, thank you hila6963

johng

05-20-2001, 02:46 AM

to normjr - i think that Teddy's car had Nevada plates, no? Also, I thought that Lenny got the license plate tattoo at the tattoo parlor, in the scene where Teddy bursts into the back room of the parlor.

05-21-2001, 12:55 AM

SPOILER**************************

Saw the movie today. Wow.

Ok, first of all I think Bud_Fox is way off and I see the same story as tomit2000. Not that that's correct, but that's how I see it.

I think the lady in bed with him at the end was his wife. And he had a tattoo that said "I've done it". I don't have a problem with that really, except for the fact that why is he still looking for the 2nd rapist (who ends up being the drug dealer, Natalie's bf)?

I believe Teddy was telling the truth, and that there was no Sammy Jenkis. It was Lenny's way of blocking out the fact that he killed his wife. Teddy made him realize this (those were Lenny's memories of him injecting his wife with insulin that were coming back), but he still didn't want to believe it so he wrote down "don't believe his lies" as a punishment to Teddy, knowing that he won't remember why he wrote that.

My impression was that right at the end, when he slammed on the breaks for the tattoo place, he then got the "I've done it" tattoo erased to make sure that he would get revenge on Teddy for telling him the truth about his wife. But it still doesn't explain why he was looking for rapist #2 at all if he still had that tattoo at that time.

Anyone else?

HedonisticGal

05-23-2001, 03:33 PM

Notice how this flim compells us to take in what we've "remembered" and fuse that with the actual "facts" of the film therefore changing the film in different ways for each person?

Hmm.. kinda like Leonard's life huh?

Damn.. this film kick major monster booty!

Bud_Fox

05-23-2001, 04:26 PM

Bottomline Boys and Girls: There are no difinitive answers. There is no Right or Wrong...only Speculation. Partial Facts, Half Truths, Amnesia, There are no Definites only Maybes. Actually I take that back, there is one Definite- this movie will make you think and ponder like none before, and maybe that's all the Nolans inteneded to suceed. Well if so, Mission Accomplished

Doug_Dirac_Delta

05-23-2001, 04:47 PM

Ok, just a few things to say.

The film doesn't simply start at the end and end at the beginning.
The basic structure of the film is this: It alternates between the color and black-and-white sequences. The color scenes run backwards in time while the b&w scenes move forward until they converge. And the film ends in the middle. The b&w scenes are not flashbacks.

Hey there's one thing I haven't heard anyone else mention. In the scene with Sammy sitting in the hospital (when he looks up and smiles at the doctor), for a split second (and I mean fast, like a single frame) Sammy is replaced with Leonard. And you see Leonard sitting in the hospital. When I saw that I thought, "Whoa!" But no one else seems to have noticed it. Can someone who has it on tape check this out.

Btw, someone mentioned that Teddy's driver's license expires in '81. It actually says '01. The zero has a slash through it, thus being easily confused with an 8.

dilbert

05-23-2001, 04:52 PM

ip- I think that you are way off on this. When Leonard slams on the breaks it is to get the license plate number tattoo. You don't go to a tatto parlor to get one removed. You have to go to the doctor for that.
Also did you miss the statement Teddy made that they had killed the original John G a year ago and that is what the picture is from. Natalie's boyfriend Jimmy was not the rapist. He was someone that teddy set up. He basically used Leonard as a hitman.

m_macdonald99

05-23-2001, 06:47 PM

***Spoiler***

Okay folks - One thing that struck me about the film. Leonard wrote on a piece of paper while sitting in the truck (when Teddy was searching for his keys) "Fact #6 - License Plate -------".

If he has short term memory problems, how was he able to recall which Fact number he was on? Unless the facts were transferred to his long term memory - he would not be able to recall the sequential order of the facts without referring to his tattoos!

Just a minorly weak moment in a tremendously powerful movie.

I do wonder if Leonard has a hysterical condition -- no neurological basis for the short term memory loss, but rather a psychological blocking. Much the same as a man can become "blinded" after seeing a traumatic thing.

All in all - My take is this:

Leonard decided that he didn't like being used by Teddy/John G, and 'erased' his 'memory' by destroying the pictures of dead Jimmy G (Natalie's Beau) and himself in a bloody mess. The story progressed until he gathered enough clues to kill Teddy. This would essentially stop the loop and he would be finished with the killing, and he would be avenged of his wife's death.

He did the Dodd thing unwittingly for Natalie - who did it to help him fix his mistake of killing her beau. She may have 'adjusted' to his death quickly because of the money prospects. She also did it to protect him from Dodd - sending him with a mission in effect gave him the 'armor' he needed to deal with Dodd.

Think about this - people with short term memory problems would be unable to delude themselves into thinking anything in particular - as the delusion could not be consistent. He would also have remembered that his wife was diabetic - there would be no reason to hide this particular fact from himself - thus would not fabricate the fusion story (Leonard=Sammy Jankis) and that he killed his wife by injecting her too many times.

A beautiful mystery - one that is never to be solved the same way twice. My commendations to the writers and director!

Oh to be so clever!

Crynot

05-24-2001, 10:28 AM

This movie is amazing. My buddy and I saw it and couldn't stop thinking about it. He went back and saw it again and he just mentioned to me that Sammy does in fact turn into Leanerd for a split second (ala Fight club)

So Sammy has to be Leanerd. Plus my buddy said that when Leanerd is talking on the phone in the motel room - there is one part where he calls the guy "Burt".

Crynot

Frogster

05-24-2001, 03:08 PM

Personally.. i don't believe that Lenny was Sammy. Everyone seems to think that Lenny conjured up this character in his mind in denial of the truth, that he supposedly killed his wife. Now if this was the case, it means that this process of denial would obviously have had to have taken place after his accident which induced his condition. If this was the case, then how could he possibly remember this fabricated tale if it was contived after the accident.
OK.. so you're thinking the tattoo (Remember Sammy Jenkis) explains this, however i feel it dosn't. How could he remember in such detail, this supposed concoction in his mind? This tattoo was a reference of something which happened before the accident.. this is why he can remember, in such crucial detail, his investigation into Sammy's case.

Lets say for a moment that Lenny does contrive this tale in denial of the truth... what happens fifteen minutes later???... He forgets the whole thing! And lets say that in order to remember this, he tattoos a little note onto his body.. the note reads "Remember Sammy Jenkis"...what happens next??.. fifteen minutes later, he forgets all that he has thought and done and notices this tattoo on his body. He reads it and thinks to himself.. "sammy jenkis.. hmm.. who's that??" Lenny cannot remember who anyone is.. throughout the entire film people have to continuously explain to him who they are (Teddy for example). You see.. Everything that he should know about this character is contrived in his frail mental condition, which means that the name means absolutley nothing to him. If he had created this character before his condition it would have been a different story.. however, we know for a fact that he did not.

The only way that he can possibly remember Sammy, is for him to have existed before his accident.

Pleez give me your thoughts.

Crynot

05-24-2001, 04:22 PM

Yeah, I see what your saying. Personally - I think it is a hole in the plot.

An amazing story - but small holes throughout.

Good call.

Crynot

Doug_Dirac_Delta

05-24-2001, 08:06 PM

Sammy exists, yes. But most of the details that Lenny attributed to Sammy's story were actually his own. Teddy told us this. Teddy said that Sammy was faking it, and that Sammy was not even married.

Frogster

05-25-2001, 05:57 AM

Teddy was lying.. thats what i think. We don't even know for a fact that he is who he says he is.

hila6963

05-26-2001, 01:53 PM

Lenny is not Sammy. Teddy told him that he was, that he killed his wife. But, that was not true. The only way Lenny could tell if someone was lying to him was him they lied about something that happend before the accident. Teddy did not know that and sliped up. That is why Lenny wrote "don't believe his lies."

enm007

05-27-2001, 02:35 PM

My take is that he wrote "don't believe his lies" as a message to himself as he began the inevitable search for a new John G., a message, accompanied by Teddy's license plate number, which would invariably lead to Teddy. This would end the cycle.

[This message has been edited by enm007 (edited 05-27-2001).]

shermer88

05-29-2001, 01:02 AM

I agree with frogster, Leonard woudlnt need to fabricate the Sammy story because he wouldnt remember the story or Sammy. Also he woudlnt need to create a story to rationalize his the guilt from killing his wife cause he wouldnt remember killing her. Also someone said that it was too weird that Sammy and Leonard had the same rare condition, but he was an investigator. His job was researching rare diseases that people could have made up. So the fact that he and Sammy have the same rare disease isnt that big of a stretch. Someone else said that when he wrote down Teddy's license plate #, he wrote fact 6: and then the numer. He did not write fact 6, he simply wrote fact: license plate ____. The number was added later at the tattoo parlor.

Devon

05-29-2001, 06:22 PM

Frogster's got the right idea.

Sammy was someone that Lenny knew before his injury. After the murder, he was physically incapable of fabricating an "alter-ego" and remembering it, and prior to the murder, there would have been no reason to.

Everything we see of Lenny suggests that he was a happy man in love with his wife prior to the murder. For those who argue that Lenny killed his wife... what was the motive?

There's absolutely nothing in the story before the assault suggesting that Lenny was mentally unstable or a threat to his wife. That was a lie told by Teddy. I think Teddy wanted to see what Lenny would believe, the better to keep manipulating him.

We saw the images that Teddy was suggesting because Lenny was "testing" them in his own mind to see how they compared with his long-term memory. But he knew they weren't right. He dismissed the image of himself injecting his wife, because the reality was that he was only pinching her. (You see this same image flash much earlier in the movie, as he's reminiscing about his wife.)

My theory is that Teddy was a bad cop (with the coincidental misfortune of being a "John G.") who happened to respond the night of the murder. When he realized that Lenny could be manipulated into killing for him, he teamed up and helped Lenny find the second murderer. That's when he shot the Polaroid of Lenny shirtless. But Teddy kept the Polaroid so Lenny wouldn't remember that his vengeance had been satisfied. Instead, Teddy decided to use Lenny to rub out drug scum because the lawful way was too slow or not working. (Who knows how many others there may have been between Lenny's wife's killer and Jimmy?)

The fact that Teddy, a cop, was helping a citizen on a mission of revenge should tip us off that he was not to be trusted. What makes the ending confusing is that Teddy's lies are mixed with truth here and there. He isn't the one who killed Lenny's wife, that's true enough, but Lenny was justified in a distorted moral sense in killing Teddy, lest he continue to exploit his memory loss and trick him into murdering more people.

enm007

05-30-2001, 12:30 AM

Devon's right. The only REAL unanswered question, then, is the "I've Done It" tatoo on his chest at the end when we see him laying in bed with his wife. MAYBE he was just imagining finishing his mission and being with his wife, but that wouldn't make sense b/c he thought his wife was dead. This is the only part I can't figure out.

gfunke

06-25-2001, 05:29 PM

I had the same problems as Frogster. How could he substitute himself for Sammy if he couldn't remember what he had done in order to create that story.

Then again, maybe he wrote down that story and read it to himself over and over again till he "learned" it???? Also, Teddy mentioned that the story gets better and better each time he hears it (so it's obviously not very 'hardcoded' into Lenny's long-term memory). Kind of a stretch though.

If you go on the official website, it gives notes from the psych-ward where Leonard was at (again a link to Lenny being Sammy) and how else could you explain how Lenny flashed (like fight club) and replaced Sammy for a split second while in the psych-ward???

marct22

06-25-2001, 08:42 PM

This is a post about a great book that Memento may have used, called Memory's Ghost - The Nature of Memory and the Strange Tale of Mr. M (by Philip Hilts). Unfortunately, it's out of print, but here's a website that has an excerpt http://home.earthlink.net/~jeauxy/mgrvw.htm.

It turns out that the hippocampus (which is mentioned in the movie) helps with the routing of short-term memory to long term memory. If damaged, you can lose some ability to remember things. Poor Mr. M had parts of his hippocampus sucked out (he had seizures and some doctor thought it might help). There's another story about some Russian officer who got shrapnel (or shot) in the head, which also damaged his hippocampus. Mr. M (just like Lenny) could not recall a conversation he just had, forgets people's names within minutes, etc. He (just like the rest of us) learn things via different routes, one of which is through the hippocampus. He could learn physical skills (he doesn't know how he learned them, but his hands knew). This resembles the test of the electrified shapes. Sammy should have learned not to pick certain shapes (zzzzapp!), which he didn't, leading to the conclusion that his problem wasn't physical.

Also, unless you are stupider than stupid, you'd know you have shortterm memory loss. Why? You do remember stuff (long term memory) up to the accident (Lenny's headsmack on the floor when his wife was raped). Yet you would also be aware that you couldn't remember what you just did.

Think about it, we've all forgotten where we've placed our carkeys, and we know that we've forgotten. but we can recall what we were doing (maybe not perfectly!), but he can't. Since Lenny is intelligent, he's always aware he forgets easily, because whereever he's at, he knows he doesn't know how he got there...

I would strongly recommend hunting this book down and reading it, not only because it's interesting to read about Mister M, but also how we learn stuff...

marct22

06-25-2001, 09:01 PM

More on long-term memory: Our memories are unreliable, both short and long term. If you and a bunch of your friends just happened to see a car speeding from the cops (and get into an accident a few blocks down), it's pretty certain each of you would recall something different (was it a white car or a blue one? Honda or BMW? Woman or man? etc.). eye-witness testimony is unreliable.

Plus, long-term memory is also just as fallible. It isn't hard to convince someone else that what they saw isn't what they saw, but something else. Whether it was the Salem witch trials, or who really scored that touchdown (remember when Barry Sanders scored that winning TD against Chicago back a few years ago(no, you're thinking of that game against the Bengals) hmmm... maybe you're right...

Through repetition and/or a convincing denial (by ourselves or another person(s)), we change our memories.

However, since Lenny has no short-term memory that can overwrite his long-term memory...

fourtrackmind

06-28-2001, 07:30 PM

Here is my theory re the film, "memento". NOTE: I haven't read through this entire thread to see if anyone has mentioned this point, but this is how I see it. Leonard is a schizo. He has two personalities.. one aggressive, one passive. The agressive personality, who we see in the picture Teddy shows him that was taken after he had just killed someone, can form new memories. He kept a secret notebook at the mental home, outlining plans to escape and take care of some business. He wrote little notes to the passive Leonard. The passive Leonard, who we see throughout most of the film, believed that he could not remember things. He thought that his wife had been killed by the intruders. He thought that the story behind Sammy happened to someone else, not him. This passive personality allowed himself to be victimized, much like he and his wife were that night she was raped. The aggressive Leonard, probably the real true Leonard, allowed all of this to happen. Because it served some type of purpose. Maybe he did suffer some form of amnesia at first. But, as in the Sammy story, the conclusion was that it was a mental state, not a physical one. Sammy (Leonard) could form new memories if he wanted to. On the subconsious level, this was a statement to anyone who would listen to the story of Sammy that Leonard was faking it. The aggressive personality knew this. But he prevented the passive one from having to deal with this. His life was simpler when it has a purpose. Thus, the repeated convictions of the passive Leonard to avenge his wife's murder... This conflict going on in his mind was exemplified in the scene where the aggressive Leonard keeps his passive partner going by jotting down "don't believe his lies" on the back of Teddy's polaroid and then writing down the license plate number. In conclusion, Leonard was not really who the film would have you believe. He was a sick bastard that took delight in what he did, in as much as he controlled his passive side, he had no remorse about who he killed or set up. He had the perfect alibi.

Bowler

07-06-2001, 03:24 AM

SPOILER -- If you haven't seen it don't read this yet...

Loved this movie... as regards the shot at the end where we see the tattoed Leonard in bed with his wife my take is this:

The movie is at least partially about how we all distort reality to give us a world we can stand to live in.

Leonard can't live without purpose -- and his having found and killed the murderer takes away his entire purpose for living so what does he do?

He denies that fact to himself and creates a new reality by destroying the evidence that he had avenged his wife. Instead he plants false clues for himself to chase so that he can stand to live on.

In a similar vein, at the end of the film his wife flashes before him several times in the most improbable locations so it's obvious that she is not there but just a product of his tortured memory.

However her realness shows how his distinction between what is real and what he chooses to remember has become blurred so that it's difficult to know what is real or not.

The shot of Leonard in bed with his wife is not a continuity error at all -- instead that shot conveys Leonard's fantasies -- a distorted memory created by his tortured soul as a way to survive the horror he has found himself in.

Since we see the entire movie from Leonard's viewpoint it is hard to separate the reality from Leonard's "memories" and fantasies even for the audience.

bgblue09

07-06-2001, 04:37 PM

*****POSSIBLE SPOILERS*****

I posted this under Memento Answers but no one is postine there anymore.

I saw MEMENTO for the first time the other night, and was up for 2 hours laying in bed piecing it together. I've scoured the website, and read through the short story a few times. I think much of this discussion is on the right track. However, for the sake of argument, for the sake of seeing if there's any way to DISprove this notion, my brother, who is a forensics expert, and I have tried to piece together a realistic chain of events leading up to the film:

I have a hard time letting the image of a tattooed Leonard laying with his wife fall to the wayside of "wishful thinking." The movie never allowed itself to be that sentimental. In fact, if anything, the film was arguably cold and unemotional. Instead, I search for a plausible reality into which that scene could fit.

Leonard's wife, Catherine, survived the attack. It's actually pretty common knowledge that she did. She died, however, in November of 1997. In the way her death is mentioned in Leonard's psychiatric file (as "deceased, 11/97", and in reference to her "demise"), we can conjecture that her death was considered accidental. If it was murder, one would think they would refer to it as such.

Let's think about what might have happened between the attack (Feb. 1997) and Catherine's "accidental" death (Nov. 1997). That's nine months. If we assume that Catherine recovered from the rape and returned home, then we can knock off a conservative month for the recovery. That's still eight months. A lot can happen in eight months. Including finding Catherine's rapist.

Where did Leonard get the name John/James G.? It's never explained in the movie or the website. In fact, it's almost blatantly and uncomfortably absent. Seems as if it's purposefully left up to us to decide. Could the name have come from Catherine? Could she have helped Leonard discover this piece of evidence? Catherine lived for nine months with the knowledge she was sexually assaulted. It seems inconceivable that she would not be just as adamant about finding her rapist. Agreed?

I'd like to play the odd man out then, and put up the theory that Leonard found and killed John G. before Catherine ever actually died. Then, to remind himself of his conquest, had I'VE DONE IT tattooed on his chest.

However, as time went on, Leonard could not remember what he'd "DONE," and continued to search, at the protests of Catherine. Catherine could never come to terms with Leonard's disease, and the weight of knowledge that her husband killed a man, and in November of 1997, tested him with an overdose of insulin injections. She died, and he could not remember how it had happened.

Following, Leonard spent nearly 8 months in a psychiatric ward (January 1998 - September 1998). Leonard could not remember any of the experiences between the attack and his wife's death. However, this was not entirely as a result of the accident, but due in part to an unconscious desire to forget. Leonard's illness is as much mental as it is physical. We become aware of this through Leonard's ability to "condition" himself to his illness and situation. In the short story "Memento Mori," a bell is used as an inside joke, both in reference to the bell used by people buried alive, and I think as a nod to Pavlov's classical conditioning experiments. Leonard conditioned himself to place his wife's diabetes and her death into the context of an anecdote about a middle-aged man, his wife, and an insurance claim. Why else would he tell it to everyone he knows? We all know the story about the person who lies so often they even begin to believe their own lies.

It is decided by Leonard's doctors that it best to pull as much emphasis as possible away from the death of Leonard's wife. They find an almost feverish fixation with her death residing in Leonard, and so the tattoos are removed, and all references to Catherine are forbidden by the hospital staff in an attempt to bring Leonard out of his compulsion.

Leonard, however, is keeping a secret journl to remind himself of what has happened. He's far from forgotten his wife's death, but what he remembers has been tragically warped. He writes to himself in 2nd person, as if coaching himself. This would suggest that aside from being an anterograde amnesiatic, Leonard is also schizophrenic, and possibly suffering from OCD. It is very common that such dramatic physical trauma to the brain results in not one, but several mild to severe neurological disorders. Even if the physical injuries did not induce further illnesses, the emotional and psychological trauma could have resulted in subsequent disorders.

When, in September of 1998, Leonard escaped from the hospital, it had been a year and a half since his wife's rape. Who know's exactly how long it was between his escape and killing Jimmy Grantz. We are given clues to the fact that a significant amount of time must've passed. At the start of the chain of events that unfold for us, Leonard is wearing ratty clothes and driving a pick-up truck. Where did he acquire these items? From a "John G." he had killed? He couldn't hold a job in his condition to purchase the items, so we might theorize that after escaping, he had tracked down at least one John G. and taken such items. As well, there are already countless tattoos adorning his body prior to killing Jimmy Grantz. How much time has really passed?

Polariods appear on the Flash website, but not the HTML version which show strange men named Marko, Noam, David, and Miguel, amongst polariods of Dodd and Teddy. Who are these men? Did they help Leonard at some point in his search? They do not appear in the movie. Thus the polaroids must have been taken prior to the events in the movie. I have to come to the conclusion that the movie takes place in present time, 2000 or 2001 (does anyone know this for certain?), and so nearly 4 1/2 years have passed since the initial attack.

Well, feel free to rip this theory to shreds. I'm not saying that even I completely believe it. I do, however, think that so much of the "facts" is left in the audiences hands, that we're hard-pressed to say that anything occurring between Feb. 1997 and the events in the movie is impossible.

Later!

-Brent

P.S. Those who say they've checked out the website, look a little harder. There's differences between the HTML and the Flash version. The Flash website does not list a date for Catherine's death, but the same report in the HTML site states 11/97.

The polaroids are very different between sites.

Anyone have any answers for the odd "Questions" section on the Flash site? "Who did I kill?" I've typed in every name I can think of, and nothing happens.

Anyone discovered any other differences?

Bowler

07-08-2001, 10:40 PM

SPOILER -- DON"T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT

I checked out the otnemem site -- it's true that Leonard's wife doesn't die the night of the attack -- she is taken to the hospital unresponsive and in critical condition in February 97, but doesn't pass away till November 97.

Leonard gets admitted to the nuthouse by the state in January 98. So the idea that Leonard may have accidentally killed his wife with insulin as Teddy says and the film maker himself implies with editing makes a lot of sense.

If you re-watch the scene where Jankins injects his wife again I think you will see clearly those are Leonard's wife's legs that Jankins injects. (I remember thinking they were awfully nice for a lady her age during the film lol)

-- then too there is the scene of his pinch being transformed to an injection at the end.

I want to see this one again -- but the best answer will probably be to buy the video tape and re-edit for my personal use so that it plays chronologically too.

Bowler

07-08-2001, 10:50 PM

SPOILER

More things i want to know

1) Can anyone tell what is written inside that mysterious pyramid of rectangles in the middle of Leonard's stomach? I never got a clear look at those to read them

2) One other point -- when Leonard is admitted to the hospital they have pictures of his body on the admission document showing he still has the scar from the blow to his head and a scar on his hand. However there is no mention whatsoever of any tattoos at all.

However later on the hospital documents describe finding Leonard's secret second diary wherein he notes that there was a second man -- a John G. The doctors take that diary seriously enough to call the police -- how does Leonard "Know" it's "John G"?

It doesn't appear to be tattood on him -- surely the hospital and police would already know about John G if indeed Leonard were picked up for killing his wife and sent to a mental hospital with tattoos all over his person.

Does Leonard first meet Teddy as a result of the hospital calling the cops? Or has he already met him and been running with him?

journeyman

07-09-2001, 11:29 AM

I found pasha and bgblue09's posts to be the most plausible and well-thought out, and lots of others were really helpful too. Thanks!

Additional clues:

Leonard always remembers to lock the Jaguar's door as he exits. Does this jive with what he claims is his condition? It doesn't jive with having to write a note saying "shave". There's a hole in his self-delusion.

He says "my wife always called me Lenny - I hated that". If his need for revenge were really based on a deep-seated feeling of her loss, that wouldn't be a likely utterance.

[This message has been edited by journeyman (edited 07-09-2001).]

u8l71

07-09-2001, 01:39 PM

i don't really have anything to add to the extensive theories on this film except to say that i think you can trust teddie's version of events. what i wanted to say was that i have see christopher nolans first film called 'following' and you should search it out because despite being ultra low budget it is excellent and just as well written and well plotted as memento.

meeky22

07-20-2001, 11:53 AM

Close...but wrong.

The last scene where he is sitting with his wife was not a flashback, but after he had killed Teddy. Teddy was messing with him the entire time, which is why he needed to kill him. He never killed his wife. Sammy Jenkins was real. Teddy took the pages out of the report and got him the place at the Discount Inn so he would think his wife is dead. At the end, one thing that most people miss is the tatoo over his heart "I did it".

inglourious basterd

07-20-2001, 01:01 PM

**SPOILER** **SPOILER** **SPOILER** **SPOILER** **SPOILER** **SPOILER** **SPOILER**

Personally i would have liked this thread to have been split into ten different threads. There is so much to talk about that I dont even know where to start. Therefore, I will remember as much as my short term memory allows me.

Opinion #1: Teddy was telling the truth
In my opinion it was a subtle twist that could have been easily missed. Nolan looks at the picture and sees "dont believe his lies." Because Teddy tells the truth about Natalie (which was revealed a few scenes later). He also told a story that seemed to be non-contradictory to the Jenkins story. The fact that he was killed in the end (in actuality, the beginning) is just a dark twist within the movie..

Opinion #2: Leonard was Sammy Jenkins
Like Crynot said, this is true because of the fight-clubish sequence where they flash Leonards picture in Sammy's shoes. I have no doubt on this disposition, but what confuses me is the question of the difference of degree of Jenkins and Leonard's short term memory.

Opinion #3: Leonard did kill his wife.
And that is due to the reasons mentioned above.

Ill probably edit the message later to incorporate more opinions. My short term memory is bad =)

[This message has been edited by psudoazn (edited 07-20-2001).]

freesafetyblitz

07-20-2001, 06:54 PM

I'm with u8l71, I think that Teddy's version was the correct one.

The Heart Collector

07-22-2001, 12:42 AM

Perhaps it's left to ponder. Do you seriously believe that simply because of that flash, Sammy is Lenny?

inglourious basterd

07-22-2001, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by The Heart Collector:
Perhaps it's left to ponder. Do you seriously believe that simply because of that flash, Sammy is Lenny?

I agree that it was probably left to ponder, but the question to ask is: "why else would the director flash Leonard in Sammy's shoes"

The Heart Collector

07-23-2001, 06:55 PM

Seeing as Lenny can condition himself to do whatever he wants, and he remembers only what the tattoos and photos say, it is quite plausible to believe that none of the 2 explanations that the movie offers are true either. Now, I believe that the flash of Lenny and Sammy is symbolic. I mean, they both have a similar condition, and Lenny was too in a hospital, so what's the fuzz?

Toby

07-23-2001, 07:10 PM

What was the topic again?

amnesia

07-28-2001, 01:20 PM

I saw Memento during spring break this year in Boca Raton, Florida at Mizner Park. It immediately become one of my top films, right behind Fight Club as my favorite film ever actually. Anyone who thinks Leonard Shelby is actually Sammy Jankis, and vice versa is wrong. See the movie again, and on closer inspection and scrutiny, you'll learn the truth.

rgse

08-01-2001, 03:29 PM

OK, here's my take on the whole thing.

IMPORTANT points to remember:
1- Lenny talks about mental vs. psychological condition. If it's psychological, then you can be CONIDITIONED to remember some things into long-term memory. This is what Lenny has, psychological condition, so he is able to be conditioned to remember things for his long term memory. Points in fact - things he REMEMBERS after his accident:

- he remembers that he has a condition
- he remembers to always bring his camera
- he remembers to always check his pictures
- he remembers to always take pictures
- he remembers to always write stuff down

2- Lenny says that memory IS UNVRELIABLE, it's facts that never change. So when Lenny says his wife doesn't have diabetes, his memory can be wrong. He has conditioned himself to believe his wife didn't have diabetes but that Sammy's wife did. Whether Sammy really existed doesnt' matter, what matters is that Lenny put his own guilt over killing his wife onto Sammy.

3- Teddy wasn't lying to Lenny at the end of the movie. Think about it. Why would he lie? Lenny would just forget about it anyway. Also, do you really think that at that split second that Teddy conjured up these detailed lies?

4- What's the purpose of the Remember Sammy Jankis tattoo? The purpose is to condition himself that there is a Sammy and that Sammy killed his wife, not Lenny killing his own wife. Think about it, why bother with the tattoo if it wasn't for conditioning. Do you think the tattoo is there just so Lenny would have something to talk about?

5- At the end he is in bed with a woman and he has the I Did It tattoo. That happens after he kills Teddy. He keeps the picture of the dead Teddy and his other picture says that Teddy is the one. So now Lenny knows he got the real man, even though Teddy wasn't really the one.

kindofblue1926

08-12-2001, 02:37 PM

Thanks to all of your for your insight into "Memento..." my wife and I saw it yesterday, and on the way home we were debating various topics and looking forward to what others had to say. It's been enlightening!

One question I had, perhaps a minor point, but...how does Jimmy know who Leonard is when they show up together at the drug deal? Jimmy says "Hey, memory boy, what are you doing here?" What do you make of this? Where did Jimmy and Leonard meet?

--Cheers!

The Heart Collector

08-12-2001, 04:27 PM

He would have conditioned himself before, because a tattoo that says "Remember Sammy Jenkis" isn't gonna make him have such a complex story in his mind. Plus, he would have had to condition himself to change his memory so that he believes Sammy is another person to remember. Isn't it easier simply to condition himself so that he only knows "I have no short-term memory"?

Still, I don't believe there's a real explanation. Chris Nolan is too smart to create this web of clues and twists so that they only lead to 1 answer, and the people that choose another answer leave unsatisfied that they were proven wrong.

nicky

08-17-2001, 12:29 PM

First off, Memento ruled. but getting down to business. There are several arguements that make sense.

1) If you believe Teddy, Lenny is Sammy Jankis, and killed his wife and is "conditioning" himself to forget killing his wife. To help prove this, 3 lines from the movie: after teddy goes on his speech, lenny gets in the car and after writing down the lkicense plate tattoo thing he says 1) "Can i make myself forget what you told me?
2)" Can i make myself forget what you made me do?
3) Do I lie to make myself happ? In your case, Teddy, yes, I will. (then writes down license number) To also support this argument, there is the fact that Lenny remembers from about 10 minutes before that teddy is a john g and uses the "dont believe his lies" note to set himself up to kill teddy in the futer for making him remember how he killed his wife.

Anothe theory is that Lenny uses the Sammy Jankis tattoo to remember about his own condition.

2 key points that relate to both arguements: in the mental hospital, lenny is sitting in the chair instead of Sammy for a splitsecond, fight club style. Why would this be included if lenny wasn't really sammy jankis? but then again, why would lenny fake his condition in the first place and kill his wife (this question directed at those who say "how does lenny remember he has the codition if he cant make new memories? he must be faking, conditioning ihmself to believe he has the condition)

and last, when lenny is in bed with the tattoo, the woman in bed IS THE SAME woman who played his wife. his tattoo on his chest says "i've done it" Now, what is this scene? is it lenny ideal fantasy world? maybe. is it after lenny kills teddy? i dont think so. but in the bloody picture teddy supposedly rook after lenny killed the first john g. lenny is pointing to that area on his chest to imply "i've done it", the tattoo he will get there. also to support this, when natalie says "what about there?" lenny responds "for when i get the guy."

there are so many theories, yet no way to confirm anything. however, this is what a good movie should do: make you think.

PS. what is the significance of the scene where natalie calls lenny's ife a whore and tells lenny shes gonna use him? amybe lenny was right when he suspected someone was trying to get him to kill the wrong guy..

Until next time. . . . .

[This message has been edited by nicky (edited 08-19-2001).]

nicky

08-17-2001, 12:36 PM

there is no way that at the end when lenny has the ive don it tattoo and is in bed, that it is after he killed teddy, BECAUSE THE WOMAN IN BED WAS HIS WIFE! Ihave seen the movie 3 times, 2 using extremely close inspection. i think the "ive don it" see has so many interpretations it is hard to pin down 1 correct anser, but it's for sure NOT after lenny killed teddy because lenny wife was dead by then

eyelow

08-22-2001, 05:54 PM

**** Major spoilers ****

Hi!

I've tried to follow the whole thread and I hope I don't repeat something which has already been said, but the scene at the end, when Leonard closes his eyes and sees his wife and him having the "I've done it" tattoo MUST be wishful thinking.

Why would he tattoo "John G raped and murdered my wife" on his chest when she was still alive? And I don't think it is possible to remove the "I've done it" tattoo without ANY visible remains.

If she'd survived that fatefull night and he/they wanted revenge, he would have tattooed something like "John G raped my wife" as a motivational reminder.

But although I like the "Teddy is a liar and everything we see before Lenny gets his condition is for real" opinion better (because it is less tragic that Lenny killing his own wife :-), I now think it is quite possible that Sammy is Lenny. The 'Fight Club' like replace scene is pretty heavy stuff, I don't think this was done just for fun.

It may be possible that Leonard got his "John G raped..." tattoo after he killed his wife by accident with the insulin and since he couldn't rememeber killing her he just thought that she had died that night she was raped (because that is the last thing he remembers) and tattooed this on his chest.

Teddy may not be a real police officer. Look at the scene where Lenny calls him officer and before Teddy answers he looks if the clerk has heard Lenny calling him officer, maybe because he has told the clerk his real name.

So I think the story goes like this:

* Leonard's wife is raped and he gets hit on the head and suffers his condition from now on.

* His wifes survives, but he kills her accidently with the insulin and the state put him in an instituion

* Since he can't remeber killing her, he thinks that she was killed the night she was raped and starts his revenge plans by getting his "John G raped and..." tattoo

* He somehow escapes/is released and Teddy helps him to kill someone who Lenny thinks is the rapist (the old, bloodstained photo which Teddy withheld in order to have something he could win Lennies trust)

* Teddy uses Lenny for his own purpose (killing Sammy and getting the money) but Lenny gets that Teddy uses him and gives himself the clues (the license plate) which leads him into believing that Teddy is the killer

* On the way Natalie uses him to get Dodd out of the way (maybe she thinks he is the cause for Jimmies death - btw. is Jimmy really dead? He said "Sammy" after Lenny supposedly killed him)

* Lenny is lead to the conclusion that Teddy is the rapist and murderer of his wife and kills him.

There are some loose ends for which I haven't found any clues yet.

* Who is Teddy for real?
* From where did Lenny get the name "John G"?
* Why is Dodd chasing Lenny?
* Why does Sammy know Lenny?

That's my view on the movie.

CU,
Stefan

--
Stefan Eilert -> http://www.awkward.de/eilo
AWKWARD Software -> http://www.awkward.de
--
Quotomat says: "When people think you're dying, they listen, instead of waiting for their turn to speak."
(Edward Norton as Narrator in 'Fight Club', 1999)

[This message has been edited by eyelow (edited 08-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by eyelow (edited 08-22-2001).]

inglourious basterd

08-22-2001, 10:31 PM

eyelow...are you stefanb? just wondering..

anyways, ive always have the thought that the "ive done it" tat was a fabrication...it was always at the tip of my mind, but now it makes so much sense.

On further analysis, I believe that that final tat exsisted as a memory similar to the one that he created about sammy jenkins. Perhaps like the way he merged Sammy Jenkins story with his own, perhaps the information that teddy in the end of the movie did actually sink in, in the form of a dream...

The hypothesis has a few holes...does anyone buy it?

The Heart Collector

08-22-2001, 11:38 PM

This thread will obviously never die.

Anyways, I don't believe Sammy is Lenny. There are many reasons for this, but the one I'm thinking of right now is, wouldn't it have been pretty fucking hard for Lenny to condition himself to the fact that his wife didn't have diabetes? He didn't seem to think about that in his flashbacks, yet his memory before the accident is completely intact.

rgse

08-23-2001, 12:27 PM

No, his memory before the accident is not completely intact.
Remember when Teddy asked Lenny how he thinks he gets money? Lenny answered unsuredly that it was an insurance settlement. Remember when Lenny said his wife did not have diabetes? He did not say that with any confidence. Remember how Lenny said his wife was raped and murdered? She was apparently raped but absolutely, definitely not murdered. His long-term memory is NOT intact.

EL_PHANTAZMO

09-06-2001, 07:56 AM

What a delightful BrainFuck this movie is! I'm gonna have to buy it and watch it a few more times to make any sense out of it. I do not have any conclusions yet, still waiting on a few unanswered questions.

-How does Lenny remember his car everytime without looking at the picture, or do we just not see him looking at the picture?

-On the website, who are the pictures of Marko, Noam, David and Miguel? Or are they just crew members?

-Who is Lenny talking to on the phone?

-Why is Dodd chasing Lenny?

-Lenny has a ton of tattoos on his body, does he get them after the end scene?(further into the story, at the beginning)

-Why does he think he got his money/car through insurance pay off?

-On the website, an article said L.S. forgot his name 7 times during the interview, has he conditioned himself to remember it later?

Thank you for any input, I'm so happy I can finally read the Memento threads now!

Bud_Fox

09-06-2001, 09:28 AM

I just wanted to give a big Congratulations to Daddiefatsacks and everyone who ever posted in this topic. This topic is nearly six months old! Further proof of what a thought provoking film Memento truly is!

[This message has been edited by Bud_Fox (edited 09-06-2001).]

EL_PHANTAZMO

09-06-2001, 12:30 PM

I just seen the movie for the first time on the 4th, as I'm sure many people will be seeing it, so I guess there will be a lot of new posts to come.

rgse

09-06-2001, 12:44 PM

How does Lenny remember his car everytime without looking at the picture, or do we just not see him looking at the picture?

Sometimes he looked at the picture, other times either we did not see it or it was a mistake in the movie.

-On the website, who are the pictures of Marko, Noam, David and Miguel? Or are they just crew members?

I'm assuming they are either people that Lenny has talked to or maybe even killed.

-Who is Lenny talking to on the phone?

He is talking to Teddy.

-Why is Dodd chasing Lenny?

Dodd had a drug deal with the dude that Lenny killed. Remember all that cash that was inside the trunk of the Jaguar? Well, that was probably for Dodd. And since Dodd saw Lenny driving the Jaguar, knowing that it belonged to the drug dealer, he assumed that Lenny had the money.

-Lenny has a ton of tattoos on his body, does he get them after the end scene?(further into the story, at the beginning)

Supposedly.

-Why does he think he got his money/car through insurance pay off?

He has conditioned himself to believe that.

-On the website, an article said L.S. forgot his name 7 times during the interview, has he conditioned himself to remember it later?

Who knows.

numinous

09-06-2001, 11:48 PM

I listened to an interview with the director on NPR and own the DVD. It's true he left it open to interpretation, but he discussed a few problems with memory, one of which is substitution.

Lenny and Sammy are not the same people. First, the purpose of the reminder on his hand is so he can remember what sort of condition he has. He does this in the very first seen. First he wonders why he can't remember anything, then he looks at his watch to find out what time it is, and sees the note and makes sense of his situation.

Lenny's wife died several months after the attack. It's possible that she died because of an overdose (and he added that bit about Sammy -- the story kept getting better whenever Lenny told it), but it's also possible that Teddy killed her to better manipulate him. In either case, after Teddy was killed the book was closed.

The final image, with "I did it" was wishful thinking. His first tatoos that weren't self inflicted (like the one regarding Sammy) was the one he got at the end of the movie.

--numinous

iamck503

09-08-2001, 01:05 AM

Concerning the 'I've Done It" tattoo at the end of the movie...

Since Lenny can manipulate his memories, is it possible that he killed the real John G. when his wife was still alive? Then he had the tattoo placed there on his chest...? This would coincide with his meeting with Natalie when she asks him "What about this" and points to a BLANK spot on his chest...
Could that tattoo be there, but we don't see it because he refuses to see it...he's conditioned himself against it????

Also, whats the deal with the other tattoos, such as the pyramid that reads:
PHOTOGRAPH - HOUSE - CAR - FRIEND - FOE ???

Great movie the second time around..haha

ck

krone

09-08-2001, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by rgse:
How does Lenny remember his car everytime without looking at the picture, or do we just not see him looking at the picture?

Sometimes he looked at the picture, other times either we did not see it or it was a mistake in the movie.

---if he wasn't looking at a picture for recognition he was using the keyless entry to produce the "beeping" that allowed him to find the vehicle

-On the website, who are the pictures of Marko, Noam, David and Miguel? Or are they just crew members?

I'm assuming they are either people that Lenny has talked to or maybe even killed.

-Who is Lenny talking to on the phone?

He is talking to Teddy.

---I think he was talking to Teddy, but may have also been leaving himself messages on a voice mail

-Why is Dodd chasing Lenny?

Dodd had a drug deal with the dude that Lenny killed. Remember all that cash that was inside the trunk of the Jaguar? Well, that was probably for Dodd. And since Dodd saw Lenny driving the Jaguar, knowing that it belonged to the drug dealer, he assumed that Lenny had the money.

---Natalie said Dodd wanted his drugs. I believe Jimmy was a partner of Dodd's and that Jimmy was at the warehouse to purchase drugs. Teddy set-up Lenny, Jimmy and Dodd so he could walk away with $200,000. There where never any drugs or drug dealer. That's one of the reasons Teddy was so anxious to decieve Lenny about who's car was who's or getting the keys etc. He wanted the money that was in the trunk.

-Lenny has a ton of tattoos on his body, does he get them after the end scene?(further into the story, at the beginning)

Supposedly.

-Why does he think he got his money/car through insurance pay off?

He has conditioned himself to believe that.

-On the website, an article said L.S. forgot his name 7 times during the interview, has he conditioned himself to remember it later?

Who knows.

beastieben21

09-08-2001, 02:21 PM

In my opinion, Lenny was the bad guy of the film. I think he made himself believe that his wife was killed, even though in his own mind, he knows that he is Sammy Jankis. When Teddy says "the story gets better everytime you tell it" I think this is because the more he tells it the more he believes it. If you lie long enough, just like in real life, after a while you come to accept it as a fact. Teddy caught on to Lenny. He knows that he made Sammy up, and that he really killed his wife, and that hes just been trying to fool himself into believing that he didnt. And once he knows that Teddy has caught on, he decides to kill him. The point is, we all tell ourselves lies. Lenny lies to himself, so that "his actions still have purpose." If he accepted that he killed his wife, he would have no motive to live. I think that this pretty much explains everything, maybe a few things arent explained, but that was my interpation of the film, and though it could be argued, i dont know if there are facts that could prove it wrong.

SYLCFH

09-08-2001, 11:51 PM

I don't know if anyone mentioned this already, but Leonard always remembers to turn off the alarm to his car before he gets in it. And there is also a scene where Teddy says he shouldn't leave the car unprotected, which makes me wonder even more why he would remember to.

He also complains a few times about people calling him Lenny, and his wife called him that and he didn't like it. And then later on, people call him Lenny and he let's it slide.

DustinC

09-10-2001, 12:36 AM

Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I've got a few questions:

1. What is with that "I've Done It" tattoo on his chest? I also noticed the "John G. raped and killed my wife" tattoo in the same shot. Is this a fantasy world, or is it really the past? I don't see how it could be the latter.

See this page for a photo of the "I've Done It" tattoo. It's the last picture at the bottom:

http://phys.columbia.edu/~flame/memento/Images.html

2. Is Lenny really Sammy? The scenes that show Lenny giving his wife insulin and sitting in the mental hospital suggest that.

That's really all I can think of right now. I'll post again if I can think of other questions.

Thanks for the help.

Feyd

09-10-2001, 05:25 PM

SPOILERS

HI I was wondering if he has no short term how does he remember to turn the alarm on & off all the time? He's only had the car for a few days.How did the drug dealer know who he was?How does he know he is a white male he never see's the guy who hit him. And the newspaper clippings on the website sugest that the police knew of the 2nd intruder. also on the website they say he kept a second journal wrote to himself and hid every day and got it back out. So how did he remeber where it was? He keeps saying the last thing he remembers is her death but he dont know for a fact she is dead then he gets hit before he can check her, he has just heard her struggling before he broke in the door.So I belive he is sammy he tells everybody about him because he knows that he is responsible for his wife death and this is his way of confessing. He blames the 2nd guy for causing him to do it so he just fogets that part and blames him. Thats why he kills teddy he dont want to know the truth if he did he would not have a reason to live. Thanks for letting me rant I personally belive it was just a great movie that was made to make you think, and there is no real answer.

The Heart Collector

09-10-2001, 06:38 PM

Our dear friend Lenny has no memory. Just as him, we see the movie through his eyes, through his mad confusion. Just as the movie puts us in his shoes, it puts us into the sad situation that Lenny, as well as us, will never truly know what happened to his wife, because just as him, we were already doomed to forget the little details that could have allowed him to know the truth. Just as him, we're walking a road that has no end.

Unless the director decides to tell the truth. Which I'm sure he won't. There is no truth.

master_abbot

09-10-2001, 08:31 PM

one question/comment that i saw quite frequently that was bugging me was the "turning the car alarm on and off thing"...

well lenny has no short term memory...HE IS NOT AN IDIOT!

he knows about his "condition", he looks at the picture, reaches into his pocket and pulls out the keys. there is an alarm remote on the key chain...

Once again, HE IS NOT AN IDIOT!.

Hmmm...Jaguar, car alarm remote in my hand???

Well DUH he turns it off! and he turns it on for the same reason, especially if he was just driving it.

oh and i LOVED the movie by the way. i recently borrowed the DVD off of a friend and will be buying it shortly.

there is a cool feature that puts the movie in cronological order, although you can only watch it one scene at a time. but still cool.

Midnitelouie

09-13-2001, 08:15 PM

OK, I know I'm getting to this party late, but just rented it this weekend and have to throw my $0.02 in...

Roll with me on this, it may take a while to explain. (And definately a little of a stretch...)

1.) Leonard is Lenny, not Sammy. The reason for the "Fight Club" flash is the empathy and remorse that Lenny shares with Sammy. (Why didn't I believe that it was true, etc...)

2.) The Sammy tattoo is there to remind Leonard that his condition is ironically the same as his "greatest/worst" failure in his previous condition.

3.) Teddy is telling the truth, but...

4.) Teddy is using it for his own ends, just as Natalie does later on.

Discounting the Lenny/Sammy arguement for a moment, follow this path, and see if it doesn't work out.

Attack occurs. Lenny is injured, and wife is killed. (Whether immediately, or later in the hospital is immaterial at this point.) Fact is, she's dead. There was only one attacker. (Here's where you have to run with me...keep going, hopefully it makes sense in the end.) Teddy, (a dirty cop) is assigned to the case and he finds a perfect way to "work" with some of his drug dealer contacts, without getting his hands dirty. Therefore, he creates a context where Leonard "believes" there was a second attacker. (Hence all of the references to memories being faulty, and only facts are to be believed.) Teddy has access to police records, etc. And the ability to doctor them. He then sends Leonard on the goose chase to kill J.G. #1. (And the picture where Leonard looks triumphant, which Teddy keeps so that Leonard won't get the final tattoo.) Teddy then aims his "weapon" at J.G. #2, the drug dealer, Jimmy Gantz. Now the only monkey wrench in the works is that Gantz has a girlfriend, Natalie. Now, Natalie recognizes the car and suit that Leonard shows up in...realizes that Leonard probably offed Gantz. Therefore, in an ironic twist, decides to use Leonard to kill the ultimate man behind the scenes, Teddy. then the rest of the movie plays out. Leonard kills Teddy, Natalie is satisfied with the justice, and Leonard thinks he finally gets his man.

Now the only thing that shoots holes all through this is that darn scene at the end with his wife and the final tattoo. (But in my meandering, I figured that was his "final reward" in his own mind. He has his wife back, and avenged her all at the same time.)

I'll stand back now and see how many holes this theory is filled with...

chris24g

09-14-2001, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by iamck503:
Also, whats the deal with the other tattoos, such as the pyramid that reads:
PHOTOGRAPH - HOUSE - CAR - FRIEND - FOE ???

Great movie the second time around..haha

ck

Reminds him to ALWAYS photograph where he's staying, what he drives, who is friends are and most importantly, who his enemies are.

stefanb

09-14-2001, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by psudoazn:
eyelow...are you stefanb? just wondering..

Nope... although it appears that we share the same ~real~ name (almost). My name is actually legally spelled "Stephan", but I've used an "f" for years to avoid being called "Steven" (cause it annoys me - like being called Lenny http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif). If you look in a few other posts on the board, the schmoe "NDS" always calls me "Stephan", not "stefanb"... That's cause I've known him since grade 3. But rest assured I only have this ONE single username. The "eyelow, stefan" guy is someone else completely.

*** SPOILERS ***

As for the movie, I haven't read everyone's comments, so forgive me if I repeat someone... My opinion is that Lenny's memory IS NOT medical. His condition is exactly what he said Sammy suffered from in that he SHOULD be able to form new memories. He's forced himself into this condition. I suspected it after watching the movie, but go to the website (http://www.otnemem.com) and read the little snippets there. here's two passages written by his doctor during his stay in the medical ward:

Leonard, although he still cannot remember my name, has learned to distrust both myself and his attendants.

Leonard had taught himself to keep a second journal and keep it hidden from us. It is extensive, and appears to several weeks of effort.

I propose that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Leonard to hide something and still find it himself. How would he know where he put it?

Sammy never existed; Leonard killed his own wife. The attack was real, but both he and his wife survived it. He destroy's any evidence such as the photos, missing pages of the police report, etc, all the passages scribbled off the police report that could be proof that he has nobody real to catch. His life revolves around catching this killer who doesn't exist. He'll do anything to fool himself into believing this person is out there and still must die. That's proven at the end of the movie when he burns the photo.

Teddy, understands Leonards condidtion and USES him. Teddy wanted natalie's BF killed so he could make money off of it - he even says so to Leonard.

The person Lenny killed before the bloody polaroid was taken may have been the original John G who got away, but I still think his wife survived that attack. He went to the mental ward after he killed his wife (just like he SAID sammy had went into a mental ward after killing his wife).

He's forced himself into what he wants to believe. He (like he suspected of Sammy) IS capable of creating new memories - he just doesn't want to. He WANTS to deceive himself into giving his life purpose.

The tattoo on his hand is to constantly remind him of this condition he doesn't want to get rid of, but that he OUGHT to be able to get rid of - he's physically able to get rid of it.

Leonard "created" Sammy to fill the "holes" in his story...

http://phys.columbia.edu/~flame/memento/Memento_hospital_1.jpg
http://phys.columbia.edu/~flame/memento/Memento_hospital_2.jpg

That's my take on it...

http://142.165.49.53/images/sig.gif

[This message has been edited by stefanb (edited 09-14-2001).]

Relly_2002

09-15-2001, 12:20 PM

Stefanb you are so right
I do not understand why these other people don't understand
Leo says that memory is unreliable, facts are the only thing that don't change
Yet, he doesn't follow his own advice, he bases his entire life on his memories (a fabricated memory of his past)
He proves that he can create memories by what he does to Teddy at the end of the movie

smash

09-16-2001, 10:55 AM

My opinion is that Lenny's memory IS NOT medical. His condition is exactly what he said Sammy suffered from in that he SHOULD be able to form new memories. He's forced himself into this condition. I suspected it after watching the movie, but go to the website (http://www.otnemem.com) and read the little snippets there. here's two passages written by his doctor during his stay in the medical ward:

Leonard, although he still cannot remember my name, has learned to distrust both myself and his attendants.

Leonard had taught himself to keep a second journal and keep it hidden from us. It is extensive, and appears to several weeks of effort.

I propose that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Leonard to hide something and still find it himself. How would he know where he put it?

Sammy never existed; Leonard killed his own wife. The attack was real, but both he and his wife survived it. He destroy's any evidence such as the photos, missing pages of the police report, etc, all the passages scribbled off the police report that could be proof that he has nobody real to catch. His life revolves around catching this killer who doesn't exist. He'll do anything to fool himself into believing this person is out there and still must die. That's proven at the end of the movie when he burns the photo.

I absolutely agree that his condition is a self induced mental affliction.

This condition arises from severe damage to the hippocampus. Leonard is unlikely to have experienced that from a blow to the head. It is even more unlikely that a person would experience a condition that he has previously witnessed. More than likely, he latched on to the condition as a defensive mechanism, pulling Sammy Jankis' condition from his experiences as an investigator.

There are several clues to this: Most of them included above in the quotes from Stefanb. He references the reports on the memento official website. You can also find the 'memento mori' short story by Jonathan Nolan. This also provides insight.

There is a giant one to be found in the movie as well. At approximately 34 minutes into the film (or backwards from the end!) Leonard gives Natalie the photograph of the bloodied and gagged 'Dodd'. She crumples it up and Leonard angrily responds 'You have to burn them!' He was not talking about the 'Dodd' photograph. That is a single polaroid. He is instead referring to later in the film (earlier in time) when he burns the smiling picture of himself and the photograph of Jimmy.

In short, Leonard's condition is self-imposed to cope with what happened. First, with his wife's rape. Then after his wife 'kills herself' to snap him out of it, Leonard uses revisionism in his memories and evidence to (black marker, burning photographs) to further cope. Killing Teddy was another erasure of evidence. Teddy knew the truth. Leonard probably did not mean to end up leading himself to killing Teddy, he just simply wrote 'Don't believe his lies' to cope with what Teddy said. What happens to Teddy (the entire events in the movie) is just a tragic result of Leonard's ailment.

Remember, Leonard said memories are unreliable. He knows his own are not.

Jason M
Smash

Andrewbaldy

09-16-2001, 09:27 PM

I definitely agree with smash that Lenny's problem isn't physical. Throughout the whole movie he defends that Sam wasn't faking it while everyone else says that Sam is. Lenny becomes defensive when someone claims this. Sam, of course, is Lenny and we need to realize that Lenny's condition isn't really as "real" as he thinks; it's a form of subconcious denial. He is able to remember only what is necessary for him to give his life a purpose.

Dossipeni

09-20-2001, 09:56 PM

I don't know if this was says or not, but I think what I am about to explain can sort of answer questions about him always bringing his camera, and checking his pockets for pictures, also remembering that he has a memory loss.

INSTINCTS - When Lenord is talking about Sammy's problem, he talks about the the triangle hooked up the the electroshocks. Well he says that people with that condition will build instincts that will tell him not to pick the triangle. Well I believe that after maybe being told hundreds of times by doctors or something that wasn't explained in the movie, the lenord built these instincts to look for pictures and bring his camera. Which makes be believe that he wasn't Sammy and his wife was murdered by John G. or anyone besides lenord

Anyone agree or disagree

Benny

09-22-2001, 06:59 AM

I have seen it twice, including last night. I don't have any more to add, except it kicked ass! 10/10 from me!

APzombie

09-22-2001, 05:53 PM

i watched this movie last night and seen it 4 times since, it is amazing. I was exited to come on here and express my oppinion but everyone else already posted my thoughts... What A FRIGGIN AWSOME MOVIE!!!!

pennywise46

09-22-2001, 11:12 PM

I rented Memento last week and thought it was very original. The plot twists were great and it put a new spin on the murder mystery. Unfortunately, it was not as good as I was hoping. I give it an 8/10.

iammilo

09-24-2001, 11:17 AM

Leonard is Sammy.

Sammy is alone in the house with his wife. Sammy kills his wife because he doesn't remember that he has just given her repeated injections seconds ago. When she dies, who is left in the house? Sammy's the only one left to tell the story, but he doesn't remember what the story is. Who did he tell it to if he doesn't remember it. If he never told it to anyone, how does Lenny know it by heart. How does he know exactly what the wife said? The only way he could know any of this is if it were him that was in the house. He remembers the event, but not the details. He's created new memories to mask what actually happened.

Either that's a fact, or it's a sloppy part of the plot that wasn't paid close enough attention to.

[This message has been edited by iammilo (edited 09-24-2001).]

Requiem-for-a-Dream

09-24-2001, 11:27 PM

I love this topic and thought I'd add that this was a brilliantly laid out film. It is NOT oscar material because the oscars are a fucking popularity contest. It deserves the status of #1 film of the year but will not get it (just like Requiem for a Dream didn't get best picture last year).
*********Spoiler***********
I agree with the idea that Sammy is Lenny. The ending would only make sense if this were true. BUT I also think it's much,much,much deeper than that. The more I think about this film, the more I get chills.

This is definetely 10/10!

Matt

joblo2

09-26-2001, 02:36 PM

I can say only great things about this movie.

Octowaffle

09-26-2001, 07:04 PM

What everyone seems to forget is that Sammy Jankis was a real man but he was a fake Teddy says so Sammy Jankis was a con don't you remember Lenny. Lenny used Sammy Jankis and warped the story to rationalize what he did I agree that it was a psychological condition but I think it was a brain disorder first and then changed after he accidently killed his wife.

rgse

09-27-2001, 01:09 PM

No, Teddy says that Lenny IS Sammy Jankis. Teddy does not say in any way that there was a real Sammy Jankis.

abend

09-29-2001, 11:38 PM

No, Teddy tells Lenny that Sammy Jankins wasn't married, was a con man, and that Lenny exposed him. Teddy says it was Lenny whose wife was diabetic.

abend

09-29-2001, 11:44 PM

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but there are a number of facts that simply can't be answered from the information given in the movie and the memento website.

For one, who is the real John G.? We never actually see a second attacker, and only hear that Lenny says there "must be" another. We never learn where the name John G. originally came from.

I've seen mention of the changing license plate on Teddy's car, and it's true. In the beginning/end, it's SG13 7IU, but when they're driving Dodd out of town it's SG13 71U. The note Lenny writes is ambiguous as the 1 and I look the same. What's odd is that as he's getting the tattoo he says to himself "SG13 7IU", but that's not what the tattoo says as he says it.

At the tattoo parlor, Teddy completely changes his story (now a snitch, not the cop) and so I wonder if he's actually a cop at all. I realize Lenny won't remember so it doesn't matter if he lies to get Lenny to leave town, but why not stick to the "I'm a cop" story?

I've got more but just in case this is all rehashing old stuff I'll stop here and go watch the movie again before I have to return it...

Jimmy Da Gent

09-29-2001, 11:49 PM

Really original movie!

Chippy99

09-30-2001, 04:52 AM

I'm with eyelow on this. I watched the film for the first time on DVD last night and I thought I pretty much had it nailed apart from *one* thing that kept me puzzling awake at night:

Its the damned tatoo "I've done it". You can see it quite clearly on Lenny's chest when he's lying in bed with his wife. And it *is* his wife! The trouble is, he sees this in his mind after he's driving away, having just killed Jimmy Grants. So, if this lying-on-the-bed-with-his-wife scene is a real memory, as opposed to a "vision", then the tatoo must have been done *before* he killed Jimmy Grants.

But when? In all the previous scenes - with Natalie; alone in his motel room; in the shower in Dodd's room etc. *the tatoo is not there*.

There is no way the "with wife on bed with I've done it tatoo" image can be a real memory. It's not possible, unless he has had the tatoo removed over the 3 day period in which the film takes place, which is just stupid.... or he got it done quick on the *way* to kill Jimmy Grants (which is also stupid!).

No, its a "vision".

Lenny did kill his wife with an insulin overdose. Sammy did exist, but he wasn't married - he was just a conman.

I can sleep easy now :-)

Chip

film_dude

09-30-2001, 11:49 AM

I didnt like Memento at all. It had so many plot holes and contradictions that it just got old after a while. With the repetitive scenes it was sort of like watching Groundhog Day. I saw a posting on another movie site the other day, and someone actually said they tried watching all the chapters in reverse order on the DVD. What a waste of time... forward or backward, its still dab... er bad :=)

Octowaffle

10-01-2001, 08:13 PM

this is my theory on the I Did It tat. Who remember the part where Nat and Lenny where in bed and she points to his chest and says what is that and he looks down and sees nothing but says I think I"m saving it for when I kill him and then she said something like You really don't remember anything do you? Well I say the I Did It tattoo was there but he just refused to see it. What does everyone else think?

inglourious basterd

10-01-2001, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Octowaffle:
this is my theory on the I Did It tat. Who remember the part where Nat and Lenny where in bed and she points to his chest and says what is that and he looks down and sees nothing but says I think I"m saving it for when I kill him and then she said something like You really don't remember anything do you? Well I say the I Did It tattoo was there but he just refused to see it. What does everyone else think?

Sounds like a well thought out theory, but if it was there all along, then Natalie wouldn't have asked about that spot in the first place. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif Nice try though. (Including, the black and white sequences, the movie goes back in time about 2 full days...that would disprove the "tattoo being there all along theory).

Octowaffle

10-02-2001, 03:26 PM

How would that disprove anything. Explain yourself better. I mean it was on his chest she had never seen it before then. And the whole movie is taken from his point of view anyway so you wouldn't see it no matter what if he was refusing to see it in the first place.

stillshark

10-09-2001, 01:32 AM

Wow, you guys, its not that hard to figure the movie out. First of all I
suggest you visit: www.otnemem.com (http://www.otnemem.com) thats the official website and it has a
ton of clues not shown in the movie. For one, it shows that Leonard was
indeed checked into a mental instituation and he did kill his wife with
the insulin. It also talks about how he escaped and was subject to a
police man hunt.

I will say this: even with the backing of the website, there are some
obvious plot holes in the movie. For one: by confirming he killed his wife
with insulin, they are showing that he really does have a disorder, yet
how can he remember what happened (even if in the form of a fictional
person, Sammy)??? That doesn't make sense.

As far as Teddy is concerned, I have two contradicting hypothesis on him.
For one, he could be telling the truth. It would make sense that he was
teh cop investigating the case, and when he realized what had happened to
Leonard, he felt it was right to help him find the real killer and allow
him to get revenge. It would then make sense that he got the tattoo
stating "I did it" and went on to normal life with his wife (well normal
as life can be with his "condition"). His wife(who you'd have to
assume does have diabetes) then starts to go through the 'Sammy
complex' and eventually tests Leonard and is killed with the insulin. Her
death would then create a problem for Lenny, leading him to believe that
if the last thing he can remember is her lying in the bathroom, and now
shes gone, then he goes out to find the killer, since he doesnt remember
already doing so. He gets the tatt removed and starts adding new ones. The
story picks up here. Problems with this hypothosis are: 1. The website
shows he is AWOL from the menatl hospital and theres a police manhunt out
for him, why would a cop be holding him out. And 2 (this one more
substantial, the BIGGEST plot hole in the movie regardless of your theory)
is that he is laying in bed, with his living breathing wife, sporting a
tattoo that talks about how a john g murdered his wife. Shes right there
einstein, obviously not murdered. Doesn't make sense. And for anyone who says its just wishful thinking, think about this: the picture that teddy has of Lenny all bloody after supposedly killing the real John G. Guess what he's doing? Pointing that spot on his chest smiling. He obviously planned a tattoo there. The movie also never
goes into where he got the idea that the killers name is john g. They just
make it up. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/frown.gif

My other theory on Teddie is that he isnt a cop at all. Instead he is an
associate of Jimmy, and was supposed to make the deal with him all along.
Instead he somehow, reasons unknown, meets up with Leonard, realizes his
quest and condition, and decides "why not send him after Jimmy and I'll
end up with the 200k?" This theory is based on the fact that Natalie would
rather send leonard to kill the guy who was with him, rather than leaonard
himself. She realizes that Jimmy was to meet someone named Teddie and
perhaps sees the pic in Leonards collection. He could still be a cop, but
why would Jimmy go to meet a guy named Teddy to buy 200,000 dollars worth
of drugs, without knowing who he is??? Obviously he told Natalie that he
was to go see someone named Teddie so its not like Teddie used a decoy to
draw Jimmy.

Other than those plot holes, good movie.

sphinxzhu

10-16-2001, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by stillshark:
[B]Wow, you guys, its not that hard to figure the movie out. First of all I
suggest you visit: www.otnemem.com (http://www.otnemem.com) thats the official website and it has a
ton of clues not shown in the movie. For one, it shows that Leonard was
indeed checked into a mental instituation and he did kill his wife with
the insulin.

Which part on the website said " he did kill his wife with the insulin."?

The Heart Collector

10-16-2001, 10:56 AM

There's really no way of knowing. I mean, you don't know how much time has passed since the incident, so you can't say if the wife's death was too quick or if she suffered any post-trauma or anything.

Teddy is obviously a crooked cop, though. He just gets cash and uses Lenny for these purposes, and since he knows Lenny doesn't remember, he doesn't bother telling him complete explanations.

The question is why would he lie if Lenny's gonna forget?

mixx3113

10-16-2001, 04:08 PM

Before thinking anything anybody interested in more background to Lenny NEEDS to go to the website. It diffidently gives your more background to the year and a half of events that happen after the rape and before Lenny's escape. There are many observations I made after watching the movie many times and detailing every scene.

1. There are diffidently 2 attackers. one is shot point blank. Who knocks out Lenny.
2. Sammy is Lenny. Someone has 2 tell the S.J. story. Sammy can't remember it. Jimmy G. says he knows Lenny & calls him Sammy with his dying breath. There's the split Sammy/Lenny scene from the hospital. And doesn't L.S. look like S.J. in the mirror? I believe that Lenny has a duel personality that likes to be referred to as Leonard. In the movie some call him Lenny, and others piss him off and he wants to be called Leonard. Also in his notes from his journal (website), he refers to himself as Lenny and Leonard in the same notes.
3. I'm really troubled by the John G_ facts. He seems to have come up with this while in the hospital, but from where. John could be short for John Doe, but where does the G_ come from?
4. As for Teddy, I think he's a crooked cop. He must have set up the drug deal, Jimmy was looking for him. But how does he know Nat, but she doesn't know him? Why does she try to get Dodd to go after Teddy, if she knows Lenny killed Jimmy. I think Teddy tells Lenny the truth @ the end, but if he was a legit cop wouldn't he just explain his real name to Lenny. By using a codename that just seems suspicious.
5. The "I did it" tat is a vision. This scene is black & white with his wife. Why didn't he got the tat after the bloody pict.?
He didn't want to. The eternal quest.

I don't know if any of this is a help or adds more confusion. I think I have a pretty good handle on this movie, but I'm not relating it all. Overall, Lenny is Sammy. The attack happened and his wife died later. Lenny combined the attack and the death to save his sanity. "Could I really have killed my wife." Lenny decides at a moments notice to believe what has happened or to forget it and give himself a new meaning in life. We see this during the Dodd incident. "Why am I chasing this guy?" He isn't, but he needs meaning. Lenny has probably had a million of these events and must give them all his attention at that moment cause that is all he's got. That's why I think all the facts (besides #6) are all very ambiguous. Was Teddy helping Lenny? Probably in his own selfish ways. They had probably being doing this in many states (jimmy's car, Nevada plates) and this is just one incident. Remember, Teddy is trying to get Lenny out of town, and sends him to the Discount Inn. I think Lenny is a lost soul looking for some reason to go on, and Teddy is using him.

I only have one question left. In the black and white scenes, Lenny clearly start and stops telling the Sammy Jenkins story 3 times. Each time he picks up with the story where he left off about it. If the man has no memory how does he know what part of the story he is at? When I tell a story I start at the beginning. sometimes...

sphinxzhu

10-18-2001, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by mixx3113:
I only have one question left. In the black and white scenes, Lenny clearly start and stops telling the Sammy Jenkins story 3 times. Each time he picks up with the story where he left off about it. If the man has no memory how does he know what part of the story he is at? When I tell a story I start at the beginning. sometimes...[/B]

I am trying to write a plot faq for memento.
http://www.designpattern.org/mementofaq.htm
I have a chronological plot table there.

By reading the chronological plot table, you will know all the black/white scene happened in the same small part of day in chronological order. Maybe it lasted just one hour or even shorter. Because it has been divided and inserted into different part of the film, you may have a time distortion feeling that they happened in different time, different day. No, it is Not. There is no any indication that there is more than 15 minutes between hanging up a phone and picking it up later. Actually, by looking at the progression of his work on tattoo, you have the feeling the time slot is very small.

Octowaffle

10-18-2001, 02:05 AM

He retold to the story because there really was a Sammy but Sammy was a con man. I really don't think the I Did It tat was a vision. I just think he refused to see it anymore. I liked your idea about the multiple personalities. I never thought about that before. But it would make sense I always thought that his condition was psychological that it would have to be. If anyone has ever seen someone with this actual condition they would know they wouldn't be able to investigate. John G I think was the name of the actual guy who he killed. Teddy seemed to say that. There are lots of John G. he said even I"m one. Oh well I am way too into this blasted movie.

mixx3113

10-18-2001, 03:57 PM

O.k. the elapsed time of the black & white scene could be less than 15 min. But, I think he can loose his memory at any second like he did at Nat's house. But that's a whole other mess. Anyway, why then does he have to be reminded about the drug angle over the phone. Who ever is on the other end of the line (Teddy), brings up the drug dealer in the second and third conversation. Now, is the Sammy Jenkins story more really memeroble than clues as to who killed your wife? But I guess, Lenny's mind isn't really good at multi-tasking.

sphinxzhu

10-18-2001, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by mixx3113:
O.k. the elapsed time of the black & white scene could be less than 15 min. But, I think he can loose his memory at any second like he did at Nat's house. But that's a whole other mess. Anyway, why then does he have to be reminded about the drug angle over the phone. Who ever is on the other end of the line (Teddy), brings up the drug dealer in the second and third conversation. Now, is the Sammy Jenkins story more really memeroble than clues as to who killed your wife? But I guess, Lenny's mind isn't really good at multi-tasking.
The whole black/white scene don't have to be less than 15 minutes.
People don't have to remember the whole conversation up to the moment to continue the conversation. As long as the time between the hanging up and next picking up is less than 15 minutes, Lenny can remember the end of the conversation of the last call. And this can make him continue the conversation based on logic. Although he may forget who he is talking to and what is the beginning of the conversation.

Teddy provided the drug information. Because he has sheduled the meeting with Jimmy, he need to convinced Lenny that Jimmy is JOhn G in a very short time before the meeting time.
That's why he is keep calling and pass photo under the door......
If he can't convince Lenny before that time, the manipulating plan will fail.

For the last question, maybe there was no clue at all. He made up all the clues. Like I said in the faq, why the name Jonh Eward Gammel(Teddy) fits into Jonh G?????
Is it a coincidence???? Maybe Lenny was not happy with the police response in the mental hospital and did not have any clue, he set up the officer Gammel who was assigned to the case as the target because of angery, just like what he did in the movie.
Ironically, Teddy can't get away at very last, anyway.
Just an interesting guess.

[This message has been edited by sphinxzhu (edited 10-18-2001).]

The Heart Collector

10-21-2001, 10:43 AM

Once again, it all depends. In my opinion, Jimmy DIDN'T call Lenny "Sammy", he just mentioned the name "sammy" because it was Lenny's trademark story and only people who have talked to him knew about that.

joblo2

10-24-2001, 10:54 AM

What the fuck are you talking about ?

clutch

10-24-2001, 03:57 PM

Whats going on.
The story leonard tells about sammy is the story of himself injecting his wifewith insulin. In the context of that story Leonard is Sammy, he even appears as him for a couple of seconds in the hospital. How big a clue is that. The real sammy was a con artist exposed by leonard.

As for the tattoo, it is wishful thinking.
why would he have the tattoo "i've done it" while his wife was still alive. He's done what? The ironing?

Reelbigjuw

10-24-2001, 11:21 PM

In the begginning of the movie (end of story), Teddy and Lenny go to an isolated place where Lenny ends up killing Teddy. Right before he kills Teddy, Leonard finds a truck with a handfull of bullets inside. If you watch extremely carefully, you see that he picks up three bullets and drops two. This suggests that he was PLANNING on killing Teddy, thus remembering a motive. He takes this bullet and kills Teddy. Now.....If you go to the end of the movie(begginning of the story) Lenny kills Jimmy in the same isolated place. After he kills him, Teddy tells Lenny that Jimmy was killed for Drug Money. Lenny then goes outside with his gun and empties out his bullets in the same truck. Lenny was really pist off that Teddy used him for the drug money. So Later in the story, he went back to this isolated place, b/c he REMEMBERED that the bullets were in the truck so he could kill Teddy.
Lenny claimed that there were two people that bashed his head. He killed the first one, that Teddy had the picture of. As for the second accomplice, Lenny thought that it was Jimmy, but Teddy tricked him and told him that Jimmy was "John G." After Teddy admitted the truth, the whole movie became a mascarade in order to kill Teddy for "using" Lenny.

Fettdog

10-26-2001, 09:00 AM

Some answers at last??

Good news - Memento is being release in the UK (and probably in the US too) in January with a Director's Commentary and a chronological cut of the film, as well as the original cut.

Maybe, just maybe, we'll find out the truth....

chrisboo

10-28-2001, 02:49 PM

***SPOLIER***

For the Lenny is Sammy crowd:

The police reports indicate Leonard's wife was killed in the attack, not by an insulin overdose.

If Leonard killed his wife after the attack that left him with his condition, he wouldn't have the memory capacity to remember killing her (i.e. all the details he knows about Sammy).

The scene with him and his wife with the tattoos and giving an insulin shot is the result of Teddy messing with him, and super-imposing what's going on now with what he remembers (also covers scene in hospital).

Teddy is taking advantage of Lenny's memory to steal drug money.

These seem to build a strong argument, why would this not be the case?

sphinxzhu

10-29-2001, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by chrisboo:
***SPOLIER***

For the Lenny is Sammy crowd:

The police reports indicate Leonard's wife was killed in the attack, not by an insulin overdose.

If Leonard killed his wife after the attack that left him with his condition, he wouldn't have the memory capacity to remember killing her (i.e. all the details he knows about Sammy).

The scene with him and his wife with the tattoos and giving an insulin shot is the result of Teddy messing with him, and super-imposing what's going on now with what he remembers (also covers scene in hospital).

Teddy is taking advantage of Lenny's memory to steal drug money.

These seem to build a strong argument, why would this not be the case?

1. From official site:
The accident occurred on February 24, 1997, San Francisco. The police report said that Lenny's wife was "unresponsive at the scene". Later, mental hospital's report on Lenny said his wife was deceased in 11/97 which is 9 month later. After the same attack, Lenny was in "stable condition" except possible mental problem

2.There is a scene in the movie at 01:21:24. (This scene happened a long time after Teddy's messing. Lenny should already forgot the messing.)When Lenny was sitting in Natalie house, he had a split second flashback in colour scene that he was tapping a hypodermic syringe with part of his wife in the background just like Sammy tapping a syringe in the black/white scene. Because all the other scenes he recalled his wife in colour should be the truth (except a wishful thinking scene), this scene should also be strong evidence of Yes answer. (Many thanks to Amanda Berman on this one)
And a few second before this scene, Lenny was watching TV. The first program in the background seemed like a news program. Then Lenny seemed boring and changed the program to a commercial-like with music. ( Thanks to Bill Anderson's information on the music. Quote:" The melody is from a children's summer camp song: "If You're Happy And You Know It Clap Your Hands" <clap clap>. I believe the commercial is for a local Los Angeles automobile dealer named Cal Worthington. I can hear the name "Cal" in the music on the film. "If you want more for your trade, go see Cal. He will come right to your aid, go see Cal. If you want your payments low....etc."). Because in the black/white scene, Sammy's wife mentioned that due to Sammy's condition, he likes to watch commercials. This might be anther hint that Lenny is Sammy.

For more evidence, please refer to my memento plot faq:
http://www.designpattern.org/mementofaq.htm

SirFritz

10-30-2001, 10:39 PM

More evidence that Lenny's wife was diabetic.

When Teddy told Lenny that his wife was diabetic....Lenny remembers injecting insulin into his wife's leg. Then...he changes the memory to simply pinching his wife... he says "My wife wasn't diabetic."

Then he remembers pinching his wife again... and again says "My wife wasn't diabetic."

Conditioning himself to remember what he wants to remember.

NeoKast

11-09-2001, 05:24 AM

*Spoiler*

Ok, I've seen the movie 3 times and read through everyone's posts and through the documents on the official site. I think I have the movie figured out, except for the obvious questions we can't answer due to being put into Leonard's point of view which forces us to be unaware of what happened simply 15 minutes ago, or worse, before the movie.

I've got a couple simple points to start off, that will simplify a lot of your questions as to the mystery of the movie in your posts. First of all, the black and white sequences are all taking place within a short period of time, where Teddy is setting up Leo to kill Jimmy Grants. (other than the Sammy story and when he kills Jimmy)Also, your questions about him using the car alarm, not always correcting people when they call him Lenny, and so on....well, I'm sure he had used a keyless entry system before his injury for one, and two, do YOU always correct people when they do something that annoys you? I doubt it.

Now, it's clear that the end of the story is about Leo's awakening to the fact that Teddy used him to murder a drug dealer to make some extra cash. Yes, he's a crooked cop. He is definitly a cop, Leo checks his ID and confirms it. So....the scene whith the "I did it" tatoo is really what someone sorta mentioned before...it's him fantasizig about a way to remember it, because Teddy told him that he had done it, and he knows he'll never really remember it. (The point that someone made about him also haveing the tat that says, "John G Raped and Murdered my Wife" at the same time makes the possibility of it taking place after the movie rediculous.) However, he can't get that tatoo, or else he can't get back at Teddy for using him. You could also look at it as him knowing that the tatoo he was about to get, "Liscense Plate XXXX" was going to set the chain of events in motion to eventually have him lie to himself so he'd then kill Teddy thinking he's the real John G that killed his wife, hence - "I've done it." (I'm Free)

Now, is Lenny actually Sammy? This was the tough one for me. Was the note, "Don't Believe his Lies" on Teddy's picture a clue to us as an audience as well? What about the clues that memories can be distorted? The info on the site leads us to believe that Lenny's wife wasn't murdered, so how did she die? Well, Leo did kill her the same way Sammy does in the story. And, even though Teddy says, "Sammy was a faker.." at the end of the film, he's only referring to the Sammy in the stories that Leonard had repeated countless times. But perhaps it's true? I think there was a real Sammy Jankis who wasn't a faker, but whom he did investigate and whom didn't have a wife with Diabetes. There had to be, because someone like Leo couldn't even function if he wasn't aware of his own condition. He had to know about Sammy in order to realize who he himself had become. "Remember Sammy Jankis" was probably his first tatoo. The idea that Leo Killed his wife, and not Sammy is an example of memories not being as reliable as facts. How could he have killed his wife if he saw her murdered? If you think about it, Leonard's last memory was of being hit by an attacker and his wife lying there motionless. Now, in the 9 months after that, you'd think he'd realize she wasn't dead every 15 min when he'd forget everything again and see her there with him. He was like Sammy at that time, oblivious. Every time he'd look over, she'd be there, he'd forget, then again, she'd still be there. Remember, time virtually doesn't exist to Leo. So, after he gave her too much of her Insulin and she died, he was hospitalized. Now she wasn't there and he remembered the accident only - nothing inbetween. So, to him, she had been killed and he was trapped. So how did he get out?

Well, the website for the movie gives us some clues about him writing to himself in third person etc in order to condition himself. Well, here's what I think. I think he got John G from the police file. However, I think it was Teddy's (John Gammel) name he picked up from the file, but over time after he had edited it and did who knows what to the validity of the info. This sparked his vengence purpose, prompting him to leave enough notes and clues for himself to break out, because to him, his wife had been murdered in the attack.

Now, I think Teddy found Leo, (police manhunt) but being a crooked cop, I believe he decided to take advantage of the situation rather than turn him in. Over who knows how much time, I believe Teddy was working Leo for various gains, eventually underestimating Leo after having him kill Jimmy and telling him too much of the truth. I mean, you can't get all those tats and have them heal overnight. You also have the pictures on the website of other people that could be clues to the same possibility. ANYTHING could have happened before the movie. We don't know what Teddy could have told him or put him through to eventually lead to the end of the story as we know it. Neither does Leonard Shelby. He never will, but perhaps someday it will be revealed to us. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

A side note - I also read that some of you seem to be confused about Dodd. Dodd was associated with Jimmy. Maybe a friend or business associate, whatever. He simply finds Leo because of the car, that's it. Natalie just writes his description down so he may recall who Dodd was if Dodd found LEO. Her being beat up was the reason the note said "take care of him for Natalie." Dodd wanted to know what happened to his part of the 200 grand, and would probably come looking for her like Teddy had said.

Great movie, I really enjoyed it and I'm glad I bought the DVD. If anyone has any points that contradict what I've posted, please email me at neokast@mediaone.net. I probably won't be checking this thread, but I'd be very interested in hearing from any of you..