Veronica Mars

[C-Desecration-]

I know, I know. UPN. Ridiculous title.
But it's gotten fantastic reviews and so far it's pretty good. Check it out. Go on, it's on right now. So far the lead's great.
Anyways, give this a chance if you can.

There's some links to reviews at that aintitcool.com site.

Hollywood Reporter:
The premiere of this series is so cleverly constructed, the hero so engaging and complicated and the story so filled with great dialogue that I wonder how anyone can sustain this level of accomplishment.


On wed at 8/9

[ilovemovies]

This happens to be on the same time as The Mountain. I saw that instead but I taped this. I'll probably see it tomorrow.

[ChemicalRomance]

The show is just way too laughable looking. Don't think I'll ever watch it.

[C-Desecration-]

No chemical, don't pay attention to previews.
It's been on less than a half-hour and we got psuedo-snuff (dead body streamed online--of veronica's best friend, no less), a very, VERY well-played date-rape (or just plain rape) flashback . . . and all this is handled dramatically excellent. Especially the dialogue and performances.

This just went from good to great.
I hope this pulls in the ratings it needs.

[ChemicalRomance]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
No chemical, don't pay attention to previews.
It's been on less than a half-hour and we got psuedo-snuff (dead body streamed online--of veronica's best friend, no less), a very, VERY well-played date-rape (or just plain rape) flashback . . . and all this is handled dramatically excellent. Especially the dialogue and performances.

This just went from good to great.
I hope this pulls in the ratings it needs.
You're convincing me schmoe...

I don't think it will get the recongnition you think it deserves or ratings if it's showing on UPN. Sucks, the chick is hot, and looks my age. I think.

[C-Desecration-]

Well the second part wasn't as good as the first. But it didn't suck or anything.
Didn't like the last narration much, but . . . well whatever. It's fine.
I'll be interested in next week.

This show COULD go bad, can't tell yet. But if it gets darker (and apparently it' supposed to get REALLY dark later in the season) and sticks with this sort of risky content, it should keep up dramatically.



EDIT: . . . and apparently paris hilton is on next week's? What the hell is going on?
Why not put her on CSI while you're at it.

[Tweek]

Shit!
It already aired?


Blast

[sharkstank]

kristen bell is a cutie...

WWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Maestro]

It already aired? Blast

It's scheduled to rerun on MTV on Tuesday. (It was also scheduled to rerun on UPN on Friday, but they pulled it in favor of rerunning the Kevin Hill pilot, not a good sign for Miss Mars.)

Maestro

[Tweek]

It's scheduled to rerun on MTV on Tuesday.

I don't get mtv.
But i caught the last half hour on a UPN rerun of the pilot.
I like what i saw of it.

[C-Desecration-]

Well I missed the second but caught the third.

And I figure that veronica is a good show. Will probably watch it now and then. Nothing fantastic, but it's good tv.
I hope it gets a second season just because UPN needs shows. I mean, good shows. And apparently that Kevin Hill is good to, so I guess they're on the right track.

[JCPhoenix]

i finally got around to watching this show (the first three eps) and I must say it was very good. I'd probably rate the first three episodes like this:

Ep One: 4/5
Ep Two: 4/5
Ep Three: 3.5/5

Not as mindblowingly great as Lost has been but this really is an intriguing series that I'll definitely be following...hopefully it'll get good enough ratings to stay on the air...it's quite a good show. And if it does get cancelled, we better get the answer to the full mystery before it does or I'll be really annoyed.

The content was surprisingly a lot darker than I expected...best friend murdered, the whole date rape thing, even the third ep's ending was something I did not expect in this show, even after the more weird/darker content that was shown in the first two eps. I do like the flashbacks that develop things a bit more (like Lost in that way) and while the third episode was more dark than the other ones and was quite different it was still good. I liked that semi-Six Feet Under moment in the episode heh.

Now time to check out some episodes from Desperate Housewives :p

[EDsoulsurvive*]

I just saw the (third?) most recent ep after hearing this is the new Buffy. While I think that title is way to heavy for any other series to (ever) carry I did like what I saw. Kristin Bell is hot and charismatic, I liked that the characters look their ages, and I love the dialogue. I will definitly tune in next week.

[C-Desecration-]

Okay, I keep going back and forth here, but I guess I finally settled and I'll stick with this show.
It's very much an urban OC (in the best sense). But I still can't pin down if it'll stay great or not . . . well what's here is good, so I'll give it the benefit of the doub.t

Anyone know how Mars is doing in the ratings?

And I love the lead.

[Maestro]

Yes, not well. The ratings for the pilot were very disappointing, especially considering that they deliberately premiered it on Wednesday to give it the advantage of America's Top Model as a lead-in. (In fairness, ATM's ratings have also slumped this season.) The second ep was up slightly (to around 2.0, IIRC) and the third was just a tenth or two below that.

Then again, this is UPN, so maybe it'll hang around - Maestro

[C-Desecration-]

I loved the end of this episode. The dedication video and then . . .
Aw.

[JCPhoenix]

hmmm...i didn't like the main mystery in this episode that much...it was alright but could've been pulled off better. I mean it was somewhat entertaining but it just seemed too much like a copy of Alias (when she went into the gaming place with that black haircut it so reminded me of one of the episodes in Alias where she had the exact same hairdo) with its fifty million hairstyles. Not that that's a bad thing but it seemed a tiny bit akward that she would know all this stuff (especially about the computers).

of the four this was the weakest episode for that but on the other hand, i found that everything else was improved this episode. The backstory - all the flashbacks were fantastic with a touch of nostalgia, worked really well, the memorial did as well, and the addition of another dimension to logan's personality was a great touch too. i like how we got to see them all as four friends, it makes you want to figure everything out even more and they've also more than succeeded with making lilly kane VERY likeable which again makes us want veronica to be able to solve the murder even more.

Overall, I'll give this 3.5. I didn't like the mystery of the week but everything else was fantastic so...

[Maestro]

FYI, UPN gave "back nine" orders to both Veronica Mars and Kevin Hill.

Maestro

[JCPhoenix]

thanks for the info maestro,

it's awesome news. despite its many flaws, i love this show...the flashbacks are my favorite parts of the show but it's really a great and fun show to watch.

Speaking of which, tonight's another new episode :D

[JCPhoenix]

MODERATE SPOILERS for latest episode
some speculation that could possibly be very spoilerish?

finally got around to watching tuesday's episode...wow, this was a fantastic ep!

well paced and everything (though the friend didn't appear at all) and lots of speculation about the kanes yet again.

The main mystery of the episode was intriguing but it was the other things we learned that made this episode great for me. The flashbacks (as short as they were) were still great, but the implications about Jake Kane and Lilly Mars in high school, and especially that moment right before Veronica's father shot the guy (when Veronica and him were talking) stunned the hell outta me. Even if it is a red herring, the implication of that talk [indicating that Veronica could possibly be Duncan's sister which would explain why Duncan decided not to see her anymore] still threw in another whole new angle I hadn't even thought about at all.

Other revelations - one that maybe others had known from the beginning but I had never realized - that Duncan had dumped Veronica before his sister's death...I had always been under the impression that she was dumped afterwards...

In any case, I loved this episode because the main mystery was good, the dynamic between Logan and Weevil was great (and some more speculation about Lilly there) and so much was thrown in the air about the Kane murder.

Fantastic episode!

4/5

[C-Desecration-]

Really great episode tonight. If this show keeps accelerating it could move past this cult-classic in the making and actually get an audience, if UPN plays it right. Hopefully. Maybe. Probably not.
*sighs*
Any news on the ratings?

[JCPhoenix]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
Really great episode tonight. If this show keeps accelerating it could move past this cult-classic in the making and actually get an audience, if UPN plays it right. Hopefully. Maybe. Probably not.
*sighs*
Any news on the ratings?

zap2it reports it as 1.9/3 whereas programming insider reports it as 2.7/4...if it's 2.7/4 that's definitely promising but i'm not sure which one to go with...

As i suspected, they decided to take that turn and all that extremely heavy foreshadowing in the last episode and turn it into a real plot point. even though i was expecting it, i'm glad they didn't decide to wait till the last episode or something to reveal this point cause with such heavy foreshadowing last week, people were bound to at least suspect so...

this still doesn't mean it has to be true, but it definitely turns it into a legitimate plot point not just a "maybe"...in fact, there's a very good chance it's a red herring but we'll see. right at this moment, i just don't see the writers keeping duncan and veronica apart the entire series so that's one of the major reasons i think it could be a possible red herring. it's still enjoyable though to see how veronica reacts to this possibility. and frankly, i can't think of any other reason right now why duncan would just stop talking to veronica (though it could work out that both of them think that they're sister and brother now when perhaps they're actually not).

apart from the occasional bad line, i thought this episode was paced perfectly and both the small (two) storylines and the continuing Lily storyline were fantastic this episode. Kristen Bell was fantastic as always and we actually get to see her have friends this time - not just one or two, but three friends that STAY friends in the episode! Wow! :p (the main best friend, the computer chick and the cheerleader chick) While Lily's storyline took up very little of the episode I thought it was very fitting actually as it has quite an impact on the storyline as it is.

I give this episode 4/5 and while others had better moments in parts, this was the most solid episode yet in terms of overall pacing.

[C-Desecration-]

This episode had christmas in the air. At least until the end.
Another good veronica.

Is there any site that's keeping track of this show's ratings so I don't have to keep asking? I try searching, but then, unless the site gives me more than numbers, I don't . . . well, just a site that'd stay updated as to this show's fate (not just the ratings). Because with ratings alone it's tough to tell anything. For me, at least.

[EDsoulsurvive*]

damn i do love this show. I'm trying to get more people into it, but is anyone else having trouble trying to explain veronica mars??

[Maestro]

Is there any site that's keeping track of this show's ratings so I don't have to keep asking?

Not that I know of. So feel free to keep asking, unless someone else can provide a link.

Of course, the ratings aren't as critical, now that the show's been picked up for a full season. (e.g. The Mountain is the lowest rated show on TV, but TheWB gave it an early pick-up, so now they're kinda stuck.) But Veronica Mars has been pretty steadily pulling high 1s--i.e. 1.7, 1.8, 1.9--which, while a bit low even by UPN standards--by way of comparison, America's Top Model is a hit for UPN, and it usually gets high 2s and low 3s--was enough to earn VM a pick-up in the first place.

A couple of things that don't bode well: MTV has stopped repurposing (rerunning) VM. And this week's episode dropped to a 1.5. (Not sure why, unless TheWB's High School Reunion stole a bunch of VM viewers. Or maybe, after the Vibe Awards and a rerun last week, some VM viewers thought the show was in reruns for the holidays. Or, given the way Nielsen does things, maybe 10 VM viewers were out Christmas shopping.)

Maestro

[C-Desecration-]

After the last episode, I just had to bump this thread. Has veronica picked up any new schmoe viewers since its premiere? Guys and gals, give this show a chance! It's youthful and all, for that teen-to-twenties demo, but it's quality. The previews don't do this justive if only because they basically make this out to be standard perky blond+ whacky friends+ nancy drew = hip new drama!

But that last episode was really, very good. Very intense in the flashbacks (poor veronica). Hopefully the finale won't fizzle.

[Layer Change]

I like the show but unfortunately haven't been good about keeping up with it. I think I saw the first couple episodes and then last night's...lol. Next week is the finale right? I'll try to catch it

[JCPhoenix]

Well, the first season is finally over.

THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
While the reveal wasn't mindblowingly shocking, it was perfectly satisfying. And I think I was spoiled a bit as someone mentioned what happened tonight as a possibility earlier...I don't think I would've guessed it on my own.

I loved a lot of the small details that went into this episode like the tray falling over + the loose screw, as well as how it all went down in general (excluding the Jake/Celeste/Duncan scene at the beginning). The pacing still felt off, but the individual scenes were good enough for me to forgive the show for that. I like how they kept a couple threads hanging, and the last flashback with Lilly was perfect - bittersweet for Veronica and the viewers. We're glad the mystery is solved but I, for one, will be very sad to see Amanda Seyfried depart from the show. And that better be Wallace at the door - it would just make the most sense.

ABOUT THE SEASON IN GENERAL

What I loved:

1. Continuity - Because they planned this show out from the beginning, I loved how much continuity there was between things in the underlying storyline. Also, I really liked that someone we might see in one ep as a guest star would appear again later and then maybe appear again and again. It just made sense since she's going to the same high school as them. Just glad they didn't ditch Mac and Meg, etc...

2. Kristen Bell - She's absolutely incredible. Blows Sarah Michelle Gellar out of the water. While it's hard for me to say this, without her, this show would be a *LOT* worse than it is.

3. Amanda Seyfried - I know some people feel disturbed by Lilly after the final episode - personally, they set things up perfectly for her character - we've always seen that she's a bit of a wild character - on any other show we'd just think of her as a slutty ditz but Amanda Seyfried infused the character with so much life that the flashbacks with Lilly were one of my favorite aspects of the show, and easily one of the things I looked forward to the most. The episode with the Lilly memorial and flashbacks was easily one of my favorites - and not just for the Lilly cleavage. Her character will be truly missed. When the last flashback ended, I just had to think to myself about the entire journey that the characters have gone through and how much we've found out about her character. She's fantastic.

4. The main underlying storyline - is just extraordinarily well done with few copouts.

5. The dark and dirty - I love that this show is so dark, gritty, and deals with a lot of taboo or serious things. It's not afraid to get down and dirty - I mean come on, just look at the season finale title - Leave it to Beaver - and if you've seen the episode, I'm sure you'll realize they're not really talkign about Beaver the character or Leave it to Beaver the TV show...

6. The relationships - I just think they played out the relationships and fleshed out all the characters really well. I liked what they did with Keith and Alicia and that whole other substoryline that ran through the season of Veronica's pining for her mother and subsequent rejection of all women Keith dates...

Now, that said, here are my qualms with the show this season:

1. Teddy Dunn + all the horrible guest stars (Jonathan Taylor Thomas, even Alyson Hannigan) - please, just leave the show. Or don't show them (especially Teddy Dunn) in extreme states of distress - cause that just really shows his limitations. His overacting can really get on my nerves and it really pisses me off how much it takes me out of each episode. I never had any problems with him when he was acting normally (ie: during the first half of the season)...and I have no idea how they manage to get such poor performances out of even Alyson Hannigan, but they do. Oh well, I know she's coming back next season so I hope she's able to flesh her character out better.

2. Pacing - this show still can't seem to get the right pacing...it'll move too fast, then too slow, etc it's really all-over-the-place, right up to the very last episode. The content is great - they just need to give a lot of scenes more room to breathe and better connections, transitions, flow, etc...I felt tonight's episode could've been perfect if it was twice the length or else if some of the action scenes were cut and replaced with more time for the big reveal and emotional scenes, etc. The Duncan/Celeste/Jake scene where Jake just randomly reveals to Duncan what he believes happened on the day of Lilly's death is just atrocious. Acting-wise it was completely horrific and pacing-wise it was worse. It was so random.

3. Emotional impact time - relates to pacing. This show needs to give more time for its characters to display emotions, etc. I just feel like scenes could be longer with more pauses in some cases so the actors can actually, well, act.



But yeah, really this show is great. I'm curious about the mystery next season though. I wonder if it'll have anything to do with the disappearance of Lynn Echolls. I know she's supposed to be dead and the person jumping off the bridge in the tape seemed to confirm that...but Thomas's response to some interview questions about that ("I'll have to take the 5th on that one.") really make me wonder...I'm worried though. I just don't see how they can craft a great underlying mystery next eason that will work as great as this one did, since this one related so closely to Veronica which was one of the reasons it worked so well. But we'll see. Maybe it will be related to her in some way...I don't see her having so much motivation for solving any other mystery. I mean, this was her best friend's murder so of course she'd investigate. I'm not so sure about things involving people unrelated to her though...

[JCPhoenix]

This show seriously doesn't get enough discussion on these boards...

Anyone here watching the second season? I'd love to get some discussion going with other fans of this show...

While I disagreed with people who thought the first season of this was better than Lost, I still loved it - and I wondered how they would be able to craft a second season with as much emotional impact as the first.

Well, the answer, as we know now, is that the mystery again is very personal to Veronica this season (considering what we know so far - that she was most likely the target for the bus crash)...I think Thomas will be able to get lots of mileage out of this mystery as it will force Veronica to ask herself questions...

Not only that, but they've amped up the emotional impact of the show with other aspects as well, with Veronica's relationships taking more of a centre stage so far.

With this latest episode, I feel like the second season has a very good shot at being at least as good as the first, if not better.

The pacing issues I talked about from last season seem present still so far this season. The first episode had the most problems but it's still a minor problem when compared to the brilliance of the rest of the show. And at the same time, the great things about last season (ie: continuity) are still present - like Mac and Mandy making appearances, them using people we knew before (like Meg) for the main storyline...

The new girl - bitchy as hell but I think she's a great addition to the cast. Though this last episode, I was a little disappointed as right from the get go (in this episode), it seemed obvious to me that she was setting Veronica up for a fall.

HOWEVER, that was a minor detail again compared to the rest of the show.

In fact, putting that aside, personally, I thought that was one of the best episodes of Veronica yet. First truly great episode of the new season...I read on another board some complaints about how this episode was more plot-driven which I totally did not understand. Personally, I found it to be much more focused on character, even while advancing the main storyline enough. They found the perfect balance in this episode.

And the relationships between the characters was written perfectly to a T in this ep. The Jackie-Wallace-Veronica-Duncan-Logan (back to Jackie) thing was just brilliantly played and they really made Veronica ask herself some harsh questions in this episode (truth be told, she really wasn't there for Wallace anywhere near as much as he had been there for her, and he was more then right to call her on that)...the characters on this show felt more three dimensional in this episode than in any other episode I really remember seeing on Veronica Mars. Many of them had flawed reasonings even though they were trying to do what was right (Alicia not telling Wallace about his father, Keith stealing the papers from Alicia, Veronica and the vindictive revenge type thing that she was almost about to resort to - as well as the (slightly) heartless attempt to get her father to use the voicemail of the people who died on the bus to win the election) Hell, even Teddy Dunn had some life in him as Duncan Kane, a rare occasion. The climax at the dance was done perfectly methinks. And the ending just made sense and while it did advance the Alicia/Wallace storyline significantly, it did it in a manner that was perfectly natural to the characters - which is why I feel this episode was still more character-driven.

Can't wait for the next episode! And where's Dick and Beaver? Considering they are billed as regulars on the show now...+ I hope Charisma Carpenter's coming back for more eventually...

[moose1132]

I'm watching the second season. So far so good too. I'm glad they're finally giving Wallace something to do. Last season all he was there for was to get Veronica files from the school's office. I think they're doing a really good job with the bus crash mystery up to this point. It seems obvious that it was that stunt cooridnator that set it up for Logan's dad, but was then killed because he missed the target. I'm sure that's not what it is though; or at least not the whole story because I know the writers must have something a bit less predictible in mind. Like last season's finale; I didn't see that coming.

Sucks that next week's episode is a rerun already. :mad:

[Sh8dy Milkman]

It really is sad how badly UPN advertises for this show. As a matter of fact, it really is sad that Veronica Mars is on a network like Upn. The show couldn't be any more different from the sappy comercials. The greatest television shows on tv are hardly given the credit, or quality advertising, that they deserve (Firefly anyone?). Anywayz...great episode last night. I felt that Veronica's relationships finally catching up with her was very well done. I'm glad to see that their are other people that recognize how good Veronica Mars is , and hope to see what other great twists and one liners this season has to offer.

[Trinity]

I watched the entire first season and the first few episodes of the second over the last few weeks and I'm totally in love with this show. Kristen Bell is fantastic, as is thr chararacter of Veronica. My only complaint about this show is that it relies a bit too much on her and the supporting characters aren't nearly as interesting (that's one point where Buffy blows this show out of the water). Stil, it's my favorite show on TV right now (I prefer Gilmore Girls overall, but going only by their current seasons, Veronica trumps it).

[The Postmaster General]

Yeah, this is a really fun show to watch.

I started watching it a couple months back, and have had a hard time keeping up, because I usually catch the Sunday repeats that come on later - have missed a fair share though.

It reminds me of 90210 meets Columbo, so I'm down.

[Asokan]

Oh... ehm... okay, I came to VERONICA MARS on the strength of some fan hype I read on the net and some favourable reviews I read of it. And in the first couple of episodes in season one it really delivered: strong acting, inspired writing, intriguing little mysteries with some shock endings (his father turns out to be a transsexual?!?!), a very compelling season-long murder mystery storyline and likeable characters with many shadings: funny, tragic and disturbing.

But around the seventh episode or so it dramatical declined in quality, I guess it was around the time - SPOILER - Veronica's new boyfriend turns out to be a crook - SPOILER END -. After that most of the stuff shown was just mediocre padding in order to fill out the 22-or-so episodes of the season, instead of really keeping the main storyline of Lilly Kane's murder going and exploring the characters.

Instead we got annoying guest stars and not-so-interesting smaller cases, Veronica and especially Wallace with his black-sidekick-shtick, i.e. constantly referring to black popular culture, getting very annoying and important aspects to the story ignored for too long (is Keith her father? what's up with her mother? et al.).

At around the 13th episode (the one with Anthony Anderson pretending to be Suge Knight) I stopped watching, cause the show went from entertaining to annoying (maybe also because striking characters like Weezel (sp?) went missing-in-action for too long, while someone like Duncan was reduced to extra-status and Logan's whole family stuff seemed forced, clichéd and thus unbelievable). It lost its charm pretty quickly for me, and when I read up on how it all turned out in the first season finale, I'm kinda glad I stopped here, cause this show definitely doesn't know how to mine its very evident potential. A disappointment.:(

[Sh8dy Milkman]

getting very annoying and important aspects to the story ignored for too long (is Keith her father? what's up with her mother? et al.).

If you had kept watching all of your questions would have been answered. Veronica purposefully didn't look at the lab results, because she would have considered Keith to be her father no matter what.

especially Wallace with his black-sidekick-shtick

Actually, one of the great things about this show is that your gripe couldn't be farther from the truth. While Wallace wasn't used as much as he should have in the 1st season, he did a great job with the screen time that he was given. This season he plays a much more significant part in the on-going mystery.


After that most of the stuff shown was just mediocre padding in order to fill out the 22-or-so episodes of the season, instead of really keeping the main storyline of Lilly Kane's murder going and exploring the characters.

Were you paying attention to any of the episodes at all? We learned more and more about the Lily Kanes murder almost every episode. Sure a few of the episodes seemed to have a "mystery of the week" kind of feel to them, but that should hardly come as a suprise considering that she and her father are private investigators. The main mystery is gradually solved throughout the series. Perhaps you're looking for a series that isn't as thoughtful and intricate when concerning its plot. Wait...I think Scooby Doo is on.

[Asokan]

No need to get upset, milkman! :D

While I get all your points, the main problem I have is this: yes, we do get little clues now and then about the main mystery in the "standalone" mystery episodes, but all the other stuff that is happening is not as interesting and most of the character quirks and their pseudo-witty way of talking gets tiring too quickly. I love intricate plotting and smart storytelling, like J.J. Abrams managed to do on the first two seasons of ALIAS, but then sorta lost the touch, but here the ratio between forgettable mystery-of-the-week-plots and the main mystery is kinda off.

Also, the level of writing, directing and acting seriously subsided after the first couple of episodes. Maybe it's because Francis Capra hasn't much screen time? ;)

[Sh8dy Milkman]

Yea well...I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Sorry I went all fanboy on you, but Veronica Mars is probably my favorite show on television right now, and one of the few bright spots on tv. I was also kind of pissed because i had just recently seen another crappy commercial for Vmars. The commercials are probably the worst advertising for a show that I have ever seen, and are probably the main reason for the shows limited fanbase. It actually seems like they dont want people to watch this show. I want to find who made the commercials, and beat them with my cable box.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Sh8dy Milkman
I was also kind of pissed because i had just recently seen another crappy commercial for Vmars. The commercials are probably the worst advertising for a show that I have ever seen, and are probably the main reason for the shows limited fanbase. It actually seems like they dont want people to watch this show. I want to find who made the commercials, and beat them with my cable box.


I read that the average fan base for VM is like 32, and I think they need to use that.

The only reason I started watching it was because I have a TV monitor in my den that shows what's on the TV in the main room -- My wife would go to bed leaving KING OF THE HILL on for me Sundays and VM came on after that -- and I would just leave it on as background noise (actually just didn't feel like getting up to change it) -- eventually though, I really saw the merit in the show. It has lots of good elements from many more serious shows, but it's totally marketed like this 90210 teenage stuff, which is perfectly fine, but not what people want to see. (if they aren't already devoted to the OC* or Laguna Beach already)

All I knew about the show before I started watching it was that the star did an appearance at Mall of America, and there were ads from that, showing nothing but 11 - 16 year old girls. After actually watching the show, that makes no sense to me.

Kristen Bell was in POOTIE TANG too, so she's alright by me. Is it Capra who plays her best friend - what's his name? Wookie, or something? -- that guy is alright too, I think. He does make a lot of ethnic comments, but it's always in kind of a in a natural context, I think - sort of like Tarantino does, but obviously not as extreme.

The music and direction of this show seem really well-done to me, but I haven't seen it compared to the first few shows - like I said, I came in somewhere around the middle. I think around episde 11 or 12 - the "Lord of the Bling" episode was the first one I remember well, but I'd gotten interested a couple shows before - was mostly just trying to figure out what was going on and who everyone was though.

*This is all aside, but something I just thought of that you might think is funny, although it's actually about the O.C, and Mars. It took me probably 9 episodes before someone had to mention that they weren't in college, but in high school. That's something about Veronica Mars I appreciate - the kids look like kids and the adults look like adults. I know they aren't under 18, but man, compared to those people on the OC, they look like Full House Olson Twins.

[Asokan]

Francis Capra plays Weevil (or whatshisname) - well he's the bald head of the motorcycle gang, anyway, and I found hi pretty cool the first couple of episodes, but then he sorta vanished for too long. I also liked the guy who played Veronica's second boyfriend, but then he was written out in a J.J.Abrams-kinda way.

I liked Kristen Bell and most of the actors in the first few episodes, but their characters sorta stopped evolving in meaningful ways, especially the black kid who befriends Veronica. Sorry, but most of the time he was the "token black guy", albeit in a tongue-in-cheek self-reflexive kinda way.

It all started out well enough - I actually thought of buying the first season after the first five or so episodes - , but it fell into a hardly inspired routine with rather mediocre results. Something the second season of LOST is doing right now. I hope the upcoming, heavily hyped episode will bring some much-needed spark back to the show.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Asokan
Francis Capra plays Weevil (or whatshisname) - well he's the bald head of the motorcycle gang, anyway, and I found hi pretty cool the first couple of episodes, but then he sorta vanished for too long.....

especially the black kid who befriends Veronica. Sorry, but most of the time he was the "token black guy", albeit in a tongue-in-cheek self-reflexive kinda way.



Okay, see that's where I"m at with the show - I had Wallave and Weevil's actors mixed up. Yeah - I don't know much about Weevil, because like someone mentioned, he's hasn't been around much in the episodes I've seen him in. He sort of seems unnecessarily badass, which rocks. No one on that show is really tough, so he's cool.

Before I was talking about Wallace though (had to go to the offical site to figure out his name) -- but he is pretty good. I like the plot about his dad. He sometimes keeps Veronica in check, or if you will - "real". There's something about him that's kind of annoying though, but I think the character works. The guy playing him has pretty good timing in his deliveries, so nothing really seems fake to me (well, at least within the show....)

Maybe I'll be more like you guys who don't like ths how as much -- Last nights episode, I was kind of not as into for sections of it. The ending kicked all kinds of ass, but from what happened, I'm 100% sure that I'm watching them out of order, because I've seen what happens next - "It says Veronica Mars!" - So unless they are doing a LOST thing and repeating from another perspective....

I'll be better with this show soon enough. You all have to give me time. Haha.

[moose1132]

Some SPOILERS from last night's episode...




I'm not one to be picky and point out plot holes all the time, but I just noticed a huge one last night. Logan was tried for the murder of that kid in the first episode this season and the case was thrown out. But tonight he gets arrested for it again. If I'm not mistaken (which I don't think I am), it's not possible for someone to be charged with the same crime twice.

[Sh8dy Milkman]

it's not possible for someone to be charged with the same crime twice.

If I remember correctly, that's only true if the person was found not guilty in court. Logan's case hadn't even reached the trial phase before it was thrown out. The trial was thrown out due to lack of evidence. So, now that more evidence has been found pointing to him being guilty, it makes perfect sense that the case be opened back up.

[moose1132]

Ah, I didn't catch that detail in the first episode. I just thought they threw the case out.

[SpikeDurden]

Last night's episode was another excellent entry into a show who I firmly believe hasn't had a weak episode yet. The writing, the acting, and the direction of this show is truly some of the best on tv. It's an addicting, fascinating show, and I love it. Veronica Mars is one of the best tv heroines of all time, and Logan is just well, perfect. I wish more people would watch this show, but the network seems to have enough faith in the show to allow it to run for years to come.

[dannywalker17]

Well the good news is that Veronica Mars has risen in the ratings over what it was doing last season. That will be seen as a major plus for UPN. This won't be an Arrested Development kind of situation. We can probably count on a season three.

I didn't even watch this show until last summer because there was so much on that same night last year, but I love it. Veronica Mars has risen to my second favorite show, edging out Alias just a bit. I'm amazed at how intricate the plotlines are and how much this season's mysteries are connected to season one despite it having been seemingly wrapped up in the season finale.

It just gets better every week.

[therealjohng]

I just starting watching this show on Sunday and I'm on the second disc of season 2 and I fucking love this shit. One of the best characters I've watched on TV in the past 5 or so years.

[dannywalker17]

Originally posted by therealjohng
I just starting watching this show on Sunday and I'm on the second disc of season 2 and I fucking love this shit. One of the best characters I've watched on TV in the past 5 or so years.

Welcome to the Veronica fandom.

[therealjohng]

Thanks, I guess people love her as much as I. Awesome.

[shoe1985]

I never liked this show. I watched and watched this show to try and like it. It was just not my cup of tea.

It is on the bubble right now for next season, and all signs put to canceled.

[moose1132]

While I loved the first 2 seasons of this show, I don't like the way the third is being done. The new "3 mystery dumbed down" thing just isn't as good. The reveals at the end of the first 2 mysteries just didn't seem to have the same effect as the big reveals at the end of the 1st and 2nd seasons. I'm also really getting annoyed by the constant random drama with Veronica/Logan. It's still one of the better shows on TV, I just think it's been much better before.

I don't know about it be cancelled. It seems theres always talk towards the end of the season that it will. It's on the CW so I suppose that makes it's chances better since they don't really have a ton of great shows. Last I heard there was talks of the show taking a completely different direction next season; jumping a few years ahead with Veronica in the FBI. I don't know if I'd like that or not, but it might be better than what we have now.

Also, show comes back May 1st. The promos that aired last night looked pretty good. Let's hope the season ends on a good note.

[mutesaint]

I actually think it be a great idea if they went to the FBI. It would ensure that I watched the show. The highschool drama keeps me out.

[dannywalker17]

She's in college now, mute.


I heard about the flash forward idea. I won't mind it, as long as most of the characters still fit in. I can do without Logan, but I'd want Veronica to get with Piz. Unfortunately, Chris Lowell is in the Grey's Anatomy spinoff next year.

I think VM's fate will depend on what happens with Gilmore Girls. None of the CW's new dramas stuck, and 7th Heaven is cancelled for the second time. If Lauren Graham doesn't sign a new contract, Gilmore is gone too and the CW has even fewer choices to bring back established shows. VM does better than Crap Tree Hill, but they must love that show for some reason because they brought it back and cancelled Everwood even though the latter had better ratings.

They might bring back Pussy Girls or whatever, but that won't fill a whole season, so I'd say there's still a 50/50 chance. It will also depend on how they like their pilots and how Hidden Palms (worst name ever??) does.

[dannywalker17]

No one watch last night?

Hell yeah!!

Wait to go Piz. I love them together, and I'm so tired of Logan--in fact, after rejoicing out loud at their first kiss, and then again with their second kiss, I once again clapped when those elevator doors opened. I don't know if it was because I'm glad to see Logan suffer or just because there's obviously going to be some good drama to make up for the lack of a long-term mystery.

And one of my faves, Paul Rudd, next week!!!

Oh, and I loved the scene in the drug store, especially when she pats his arm after asking for the time.

[brodeurnumber1]

Veronica Mars Season 3: A Rob Thomas tutorial of how to ruin the character of Logan Echolls

[shoe1985]

If it comes back I will be shocked. Gilmore Girls did a 2.6 rating and this did a 1.4. That is a big loss of viewers. This is a show that should at least get a 2.0 with that type of lead in.

[dannywalker17]

NEWS FLASH

Gilmore Girls has been cancelled. That ups VM's chances of being renewed significantly.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by dannywalker17
NEWS FLASH

Gilmore Girls has been cancelled. That ups VM's chances of being renewed significantly.

It does, but doesn't. The Pussycat Dolls special did better than VM. Time will tell.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by shoe1985
It does, but doesn't. The Pussycat Dolls special did better than VM. Time will tell.


Shit like this just pisses me off. Why do people watch such shit shows but not something as good as Vmars? Uhh, fucking people.

[shoe1985]

I don't watch anything on the CW except for Everybody Hates Chris. I tried to like VM because of the praise, but found it to be boring. Many people must feel the same way because they can't keep an audience.

[therealjohng]

I think a lot of people don't "get" Veronica Mars.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by therealjohng
I think a lot of people don't "get" Veronica Mars.

Or they just don't like it. Everyone likes different things.

[dannywalker17]

Pussycat Dolls isn't something that can fill the whole season. VM and Pussycat Dolls could share a timeslot over the course of the season, just like they did this year.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by dannywalker17
Pussycat Dolls isn't something that can fill the whole season. VM and Pussycat Dolls could share a timeslot over the course of the season, just like they did this year.

Or they could get a reality show to fill in the timeslot after PD is over. Considering PD did better ratings and cost half of what VM did, I wonder what the CW would do.

I understand your point, but this is about money. This show doesn't draw. The CW gave it and the fans many chances to get the ratings up, but not enough people like it to stick around.

[dannywalker17]

No one watch the series finale???


I thought both episodes were great, and if it were a season finale, it would be perfect, but as a series finale, there is too little closure. I'm holding out the tiniest hope for some kind of renewal because The CW hasn't officially cancelled it, and they were still promoting it as the Season Finale, not the series finale.

[shoe1985]

It is gone unless something big were too happen. The big thing to look at in ratings is the 18-49 age group, the CW did a .8 for the night, not good at all. I will be shocked if this show ever comes back because the ratings took a big drop this year when they should have gone up with the lead-in it had.

[JCPhoenix]

I loved Veronica Mars in Season 1 but to be quite honest, while I continued following it in Season 2, it lost me a little with the overly complex storyline. However, I was very opposed to the "mini-arcs" of Season 3 and as they turned out, they weren't horrible but they weren't great. I would've taken the overly complex Season 2 over Season 3 any day.

But all in all, while I dig Veronica Mars a lot, I'm always surprised at the critical acclaim the series gets. While the quirky humor is sharp, the more straightforward dialogue isn't always as well-written (and while I loved the first season, I don't think it's on par with most of my other favorite shows in writing/pacing/production values - in fact - I dug the first season of The O.C. too a lot and I would say that had better production values, better acting, and better writing than VMars despite the fact that that was more of a guilty pleasure). I always found Weevil was the lamest and most laughable gangster wanna-be character (and don't get me started on Duncan) and the single episode storylines were generally hit or miss. The main reason I loved Veronica Mars was cause the over-arching mystery of the first season was beautifully put together and Kristen Bell and Amanda Seyfried were stellar standouts. But even with that season, there are/were tons of flaws.

And the later seasons just got worse and worse. I still watched the show but it was with nowhere near the interest I had before. Personally, Veronica Mars as a favorite show ended after Season 1. After that, I've just been watching in good faith, hoping for something great to come out of it again. Though there was an episode a few weeks ago that was easily the worst episode of the show I've ever seen (the one where a family's restaurant got targeted by paintball shooters and where they tried to do a PSA kind of thing on -God forbid- minors drinking) and probably the worst episode I've seen of any of my favorite shows past or present.

So while it is a little sad to see the show gone, I'm okay with it in this case. The quality has really dropped in the recent season - while passably entertaining, I'm just not that interested in anything that goes on in the show anymore, though the last episode that I've seen of Season 3 (the Paul Rudd one) was kinda fun for being a standalone. I'll be watching the remaining episodes in the next few days to finish the show out, but I'm not dissatisfied at all with The CW's choice to take it off the air. They gave it three years of chances with such low ratings which is more than many other great shows have gotten.

[dannywalker17]

No, UPN gave it 2 years and CW gave it one.

[JCPhoenix]

Originally posted by dannywalker17
No, UPN gave it 2 years and CW gave it one.

But UPN became The CW after merging with WB so I count it as them giving it 3 chances.

The only thing I'll regret about not having more Veronica Mars is that there won't be any weekly Kristen Bell appearances on TV anymore (though we can still hear her voice on uh, Gossip Girl) :p but hopefully this will free her up for some interesting movie roles...