Joaquin Phoenix Breaks Down

[The Heart Collector]

From imdb:

Joaquin Phoenix Breaks Down
Actor Joaquin Phoenix broke down on the set of his latest movie and started banging his head against a wall - because a scene reportedly sparked memories of his brother River Phoenix's tragic death. The Village star - who was 19 when his brother died of a drug overdose outside Los Angeles nightclub The Viper Room in 1993 - is currently filming Johnny Cash biopic Walk the Line. Sources say Phoenix had to be taken away in an ambulance after references to the horrific death of Cash's younger brother Jack in an electrical tool accident caused him to freak out. Phoenix's publicist denies that the star is having a breakdown, but there are rumors the film's location may have to be switched from Memphis, Tennessee to Hollywood, to make Phoenix more comfortable.


Damn, that's.... depressing.

[Reigh Kaufman]

The transcript of the 911 call alone would burst anyone's heart. I have nothing but admiration for him and his family (though not the flaky parents) for the way they have dealt with the passing of their brother. I hope Joaquin can find some peace soon.

[Tweek]

:(

[C-Desecration-]

I really like this guy so it's a shame to hear about him going through some repercussions, but it's to be expected.
He'll pull through, breakdown or not.

[outsyder]

Poor guy. I can see how that would deeply affect him and his ability to work. He's been so busy acting this year. I think some time off would do wonders for him.

[Dignan]

Poor guy.

Makes me thankful I still have my brother with me.

[sharkstank]

thats depressing
poor guy

WWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Saruman]

Let's just hope he doesn't turn to drugs to cope.

[jeo4]

Tragic story, to say the least. Here's one of the best actors to grace us in nearly twenty years (IMO) and he still has horrible flashbacks to his brother's death. It seems obvious the man needs a break from work, but he needs to make that decision. I hope he gets better soon. He is one of my favorite actors.

[-THRILLTHRIFT->]

damnit!!
he is my fav actor.and i do hope he takes a break from all this!


err...this may not be directly relevant to the topic here.but afta readin this article,i keep gettin images of his scene in 'the village' wer he cries in front of sigourney weaver.aaaah!!wat an actor!!!

anyways,b4 i get derailed off the topic.
get well soon JP!

[DRbeauty]

If he needs a shoulder to cry on I'll be there

[Korny]

thats really tough, I'm really looking forward to thos Film, i'm sure he'll be aoutstanding

[napkin]

Boo-Hoo!!. Poor guy, I mean it's not like his brother had:

great talent as an actor

enormous wealth

good looks w/

millions of fans who loved his persona

It's as tragic as:

raped babies

child slavery

a blind person being hit by on-coming traffic even. :rolleyes:

Get over it!! His brother pissed away his talent and life, because

doing drugs and hanging out in hollywood was more important.

Leave acting alone if it bothers you so much.

[Tweek]

napkin, you've obviously never had anyone close to you die.
you'd have a lot more empathy.
Hell, I thought most humans were enstilled with it.





great talent as an actor

enormous wealth

good looks w/

millions of fans who loved his persona


MOOT. Because Joaquin and River were BROTHERS. They were brothers before the fame, the money, and acting...
Ah never mind...

[Dixiecup]

Hey Moot- that was a pretty shitty thing to say. It's about his reaction to doing the scene, and how it impacted him.

[Dixiecup]

Oops! Sorry! I meant NAPKIN- That was a pretty shitty thing to say.

[donna542004]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
From imdb:

Joaquin Phoenix Breaks Down
Actor Joaquin Phoenix broke down on the set of his latest movie and started banging his head against a wall - because a scene reportedly sparked memories of his brother River Phoenix's tragic death. The Village star - who was 19 when his brother died of a drug overdose outside Los Angeles nightclub The Viper Room in 1993 - is currently filming Johnny Cash biopic Walk the Line. Sources say Phoenix had to be taken away in an ambulance after references to the horrific death of Cash's younger brother Jack in an electrical tool accident caused him to freak out. Phoenix's publicist denies that the star is having a breakdown, but there are rumors the film's location may have to be switched from Memphis, Tennessee to Hollywood, to make Phoenix more comfortable.


Damn, that's.... depressing.


I hope he gets better. I like him as an actor. And looseing his brother was hard.
Donna A.

[MisterTwister]

Originally posted by napkin
Boo-Hoo!!. Poor guy, I mean it's not like his brother had:

great talent as an actor

enormous wealth

good looks w/

millions of fans who loved his persona

It's as tragic as:

raped babies

child slavery

a blind person being hit by on-coming traffic even. :rolleyes:

Get over it!! His brother pissed away his talent and life, because

doing drugs and hanging out in hollywood was more important.

Leave acting alone if it bothers you so much.

You should be ashamed of yourself. What you said was really wrong-It's not about fame-it was about family and he really misses his brother. Very wrong indeed-If you had a brother who died you would be depressed.

[MovieFanatic189]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by napkin
Boo-Hoo!!. Poor guy, I mean it's not like his brother had:

great talent as an actor

enormous wealth

good looks w/

millions of fans who loved his persona

It's as tragic as:

raped babies

child slavery

a blind person being hit by on-coming traffic even.

Get over it!! His brother pissed away his talent and life, because

doing drugs and hanging out in hollywood was more important.

Leave acting alone if it bothers you so much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You should be ashamed of yourself. What you said was really wrong-It's not about fame-it was about family and he really misses his brother. Very wrong indeed-If you had a brother who died you would be depressed.

People like that make me sick. All they can do is feel sorry for themselves, and cry because others have been materially more successful than they. Be thankful for what you have, Napkin, instead of spending your life being envious of others.

[Twisted Sister]

This makes no sense. Here's a really similar story about Joaquin that I read a couple days ago on WENN. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and feel bad for him in both situations, but something seems fishy with such similar stories coming out at the same time. Or maybe he's coming unglued?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Pilot restrained, reprimanded nervous Phoenix during recent flight

World Entertainment News Network
Posted September 27 2004


The Village star Joaquin Phoenix became so nervous during a recent flight, he had to be restrained and verbally reprimanded by the pilot.

The actor regrets wailing and slamming his head against the walls when the airplane took off and is determined to overcome his fear before boarding another flight.

"I get very, very nervous in planes," Phoenix said. "I was on this one flight recently and I got so nervous that I started shaking and banging my head against the wall and going, 'Oh God! Oh my God!' and making all the other passengers on the plane extremely nervous."

"In the end, the pilot had to come out and hold me down. He told me to shut up and calm down. That was pretty embarrassing."

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by napkin
Boo-Hoo!!. Poor guy, I mean it's not like his brother had:

great talent as an actor

enormous wealth

good looks w/

millions of fans who loved his persona

It's as tragic as:

raped babies

child slavery

a blind person being hit by on-coming traffic even. :rolleyes:

Get over it!! His brother pissed away his talent and life, because

doing drugs and hanging out in hollywood was more important.

Leave acting alone if it bothers you so much.

Napkin, your opinion is your opinion, but if you're going to share it with others, it should at least make sense.

River was a critically acclaimed up and comer at the time of his death. He had plenty of cash and fans. There are many kinds of tragedies in this world, some of which are raped babies, child slavery, etc. But let's also remember that the death of a son/brother is also a tragedy. Hollywood or otherwise.

[Antonio]

I had just created a FAVORITE JOAQUIN PHOENIX ROLE/PERFORMANCE topic in the BEST/WORST/LISTS forum when I read about this. I have no doubt he will pull through...he's an amazing actor and at 19, had the strength to overcome his brother's tragic death almost 11 years ago.

[DRbeauty]

There, There Joaquin, lay your head on my perky breasts and cry your eyes out.

[napkin]

Originally posted by MovieFanatic189
People like that make me sick. All they can do is feel sorry for themselves, and cry because others have been materially more successful than they. Be thankful for what you have, Napkin, instead of spending your life being envious of others.

Whatever you say mate!! I don't care about his success. Until

I read this thread; I didn't even know "Phoenix" had a brother.

It's obvious reading comprehension is not your strength. There

is nothing in my post that suggests I'm "envious" (let me guess

you had nothing cerebral to say, so you just said the first thing

that came to mind). Actually, I live quite well compared to many

people. My point is his brother used drugs of his own free

will (it's not like he was gunned down while helping

orphans :rolleyes: ). He then died as a result of this choice .


People hate it, when a person such as myself shatters the

perception of their deities. I see his death for what it was

"avoidable" . I don't feel sorry when a person chooses

to live a self-destructive lifestyle and then dies as a result. If

somebody you love is killed by a drunk driver, then please "feel

sorry" for the drunk. :rolleyes:

[Tweek]

If

somebody you love is killed by a drunk driver, then please "feel

sorry" for the drunk.

That doesn't even make sense.

Why would someone feel sorry for the drunk when the person who died is someone they love?


It's been almost 11 years since the guy died. Avoidable or not, Joaquin's still allowed to grieve.
Some people go the rest of their lives greiving.
http://health.yahoo.com/health/ency/adam/001530/overview



I don't care about his success.

Obviously you did as you brought that up for reasons why Joaquin SHOULDN'T be sad.



It's obvious reading comprehension is not your strength.

Human feeling isn't your strength.

People hate it, when a person such as myself shatters the

perception of their deities.

The two are far from deities to me.
I don't worship the ground celebrities walk on.


My point is his brother used drugs of his own free
And?
They were still family.
Would you tell the brother of a suicide to stop grieving because his sibling killed him/herself? No, because they're still dead and gone.


Oh yeah, and you try watching someone you love die, drug abuse or not, and come out of it in one emotional piece.

[napkin]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
Napkin, your opinion is your opinion, but if you're going to share it with others, it should at least make sense.

River was a critically acclaimed up and comer at the time of his death. He had plenty of cash and fans. There are many kinds of tragedies in this world, some of which are raped babies, child slavery, etc. But let's also remember that the death of a son/brother is also a tragedy. Hollywood or otherwise.

No wonder I didn't make sense to you. Read your post again. I

had to laugh at the inane comparison. Your right me feeling

a "raped baby" is more tragic, than the death of a "willing" drug

user makes no sense at all :rolleyes:

Perhaps, you and "Mister Twister" should start a support group.

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by napkin
Whatever you say mate!! I don't care about his success. Until

I read this thread; I didn't even know "Phoenix" had a brother.

It's obvious reading comprehension is not your strength. There

is nothing in my post that suggests I'm "envious" (let me guess

you had nothing cerebral to say, so you just said the first thing

that came to mind). Actually, I live quite well compared to many

people. My point is his brother used drugs of his own free

will (it's not like he was gunned down while helping

orphans :rolleyes: ). He then died as a result of this choice .


People hate it, when a person such as myself shatters the

perception of their deities. I see his death for what it was

"avoidable" . I don't feel sorry when a person chooses

to live a self-destructive lifestyle and then dies as a result. If

somebody you love is killed by a drunk driver, then please "feel

sorry" for the drunk. :rolleyes:

So what? You're telling me if your mother is a smoker and dies from lung cancer, you're gonna shrug it off and say "well, serves her right"?

[B1rd_Po0p]

The original thread was that Joaquin had a break down due to something reminding him of his brother's death: which is very sad. I don't know where the rest of the stuff came from - since it was a pretty straight forward beginning to a thread.

It doesn't matter how or why someone died; or if they were successful, or a drug addict or whatever - death is painful for those who get left behind. Joaquin loved his brother and his brother died; and that is sad. I'm sure Joaquin also has a great deal of anger towards his brother for the way he lived his life and the things that led to him dying prematurely. All I know is that I lost a brother to AIDS and I am angry about it and even though it's been six years I still have moments of overwhelming grief. So just let the guy be human and experience his grief, dang.

~bird~

[napkin]

Originally posted by Tweek
That doesn't even make sense.

Why would someone feel sorry for the drunk when the person who died is someone they love?


It's been almost 11 years since the guy died. Avoidable or not, Joaquin's still allowed to grieve.
Some people go the rest of their lives greiving.
http://health.yahoo.com/health/ency/adam/001530/overview

Why should I feel sorry for a guy who overdosed on drugs? You

just proved my point. Thanks!! :D . If acting reminds you of your

brothers' death, then stop acting.



Originally posted by Tweek
Obviously you did as you brought that up for reasons why Joaquin SHOULDN'T be sad

No, obviously you didn't understand that I was refering

to "Phoenix". Read with comprehension first, then reply.


Originally posted by Tweek
Human feeling isn't your strength.

Just because I don't condone his drug use, doesn't mean I have

no feeling. I just don't allow it to cloud my judgement.


Originally posted by Tweek The two are far from deities to me. I don't worship the ground celebrities walk on.

No, you just defend them like their your children post after post :rolleyes:.

Originally posted by Tweek And?
They were still family.
Would you tell the brother of a suicide to stop grieving because his sibling killed him/herself? No, because they're still dead and gone.

He did commit suicide in my opinion. His death was "avoidable",

as I stated earlier.




Originally posted by Tweek Oh yeah, and you try watching someone you love die, drug abuse or not, and come out of it in one emotional piece.

I have.

[Eli Cash]

He's scheduled for Letterman tonight; we'll see if he shows up. Hopefully he's improving.

[napkin]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
So what? You're telling me if your mother is a smoker and dies from lung cancer, you're gonna shrug it off and say "well, serves her right"?

Exactly !! Finally someone who understands (even if they

disagree). It's called "Personal Responsibility". I hold people

accountable for their own actions.

Mess with the bull, you get the horns !!

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by napkin
Exactly !! Finally someone who understands (even if they

disagree). It's called "Personal Responsibility". I hold people

accountable for their own actions.

Mess with the bull, you get the horns !!

What the...? You honestly would say about your mother dying of lung cancer from smoking "Well, serves her right"? Christ...

*shakes head in disbelief*

[B1rd_Po0p]

It seems like Napkin totally missed the point of the thread and turned it into a personal vendetta. I for one am bored with his rant.

Joaquin: I hope you bounce back soon, buddy. I feel your pain.


~bird~

[Tweek]

Originally posted by napkin
Why should I feel sorry for a guy who overdosed on drugs? You

just proved my point. Thanks!!


Actually no I didn't.


You do know pity and empathy are two different things right?




Just because I don't condone his drug use, doesn't mean I have

no feeling. I just don't allow it to cloud my judgement

Wow, and you're telling ME to read with comprehension.

This isn't about drug use. We're posting about someone who's grieving about his brother who died from using drugs. Slight difference.



Exactly !! Finally someone who understands (even if they

disagree). It's called "Personal Responsibility". I hold people

accountable for their own actions.

BULLSHIT.

You know if your mother died from smoking too much or whatever, you'd be too grief-stricken to care about the fact she did it to herself.




I have.

Nope. Don't buy it.
No one who's gone through that would act like you.

[C-Desecration-]

So napkin, you're saying that joaquin shouldn't be grieving for his dead brother? The fact that he basically blew himself in the head with drugs, let's put that aside, it makes no difference (if anything that'd make the death more tragic for joaquin, probably, just like losing a loved one to alcohol would be worse than if they just died in their sleep).
That aside, you're telling people you've never met how to feel in a situation you've only read about (if that).
That strike anyone as odd?

[outsyder]

Ignore him. There's the simplest and best solution to the problem.

[Briare Rabbit]

Napkin:
You dont have ANY idea what in the fucking hell you're talking about. Roughly a year and a bit ago, one of my family members killed themselves. Im grieving, always have and I will never stop. Yes, they did it to themselves. They chose to commit suicide; they chose to do it, and basically destroy the lives of everyone around them. And? Your point? If anything, sympathy is NEEDED more in this situation. A person who feels the need to do this obviously has some inner demons; something they need to deal with more and share with others to help the healing become quicker. Grow the fuck up, and stop being such an immature and unfeeling douchebag. I say you watching someone doing that to themselves and still being such a stuck up little ass is the biggest pile of bullshit Ive ever heard. My god if you cannot feel compassion for others, I seriously weep for your future, not only as a member of society, but as a human being. You play the card of suffering people, but I guarantee, you dont know the suffering that victims of family members who committed suicide or died of a drug overdose.

Good day to you sir.

[Arlius]

He's pretty screwed up. Which is why you don't see him very often, and when he does make the rare TV appearance, he comes across as strange and disturbed.. and that only leads to people thinking he's high on something.

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by napkin
Exactly !! Finally someone who understands (even if they

disagree). It's called "Personal Responsibility". I hold people

accountable for their own actions.

Mess with the bull, you get the horns !!

Whatever, tough guy. We're all impressed by your huge balls.

[donna542004]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Whatever, tough guy. We're all impressed by your huge balls.

Maybe this should be dropped and go back to the subject. It is just sad all around no matter what or how it happen.
Donna A.

[Saruman]

Originally posted by donna542004
Maybe this should be dropped and go back to the subject. It is just sad all around no matter what or how it happen.
Donna A.

Yeah guys, none of us want to get banned over a stupid argument like this.

[napkin]

Originally posted by Tweek
Actually no I didn't.

You do know pity and empathy are two different things right?

Actually you did. You do know what a "Thesarus" is don't

you? Then look these words up and see what you

come up with. I must be stupid to think they mean

to "sympathize" with someone. :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Tweek Wow, and you're telling ME to read with comprehension.

This isn't about drug use. We're posting about someone who's grieving about his brother who died from using drugs. Slight difference.

It was more of a request actually. This is very much about drug

use in that; had he not overdosed he would still be alive. Thus

no reason to grieve eh? Your still defending your deity.


Originally posted by Tweek BULLSHIT.

You know if your mother died from smoking too much or whatever, you'd be too grief-stricken to care about the fact she did it to herself.

You know me sooooo well. :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Tweek Nope. Don't buy it.
No one who's gone through that would act like you.

I'll type in a way you can understand. Brother not on drugs = still

alive. Brother does drugs = dead man. Any questions? Believe

what you will, but people deal with death in different ways.

You don't have to "buy it" for it to be true. There are people who

don't "buy it" that man has walked on the moon. Doesn't mean it

didn't happen.

[napkin]

Originally posted by B1rd_Po0p
It seems like Napkin totally missed the point of the thread and turned it into a personal vendetta. I for one am bored with his rant.

Joaquin: I hope you bounce back soon, buddy. I feel your pain.


~bird~

Then ignore me like someone stated earlier. These are my views

and opinions. I'm not saying everyone must agree with them.

[napkin]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
So napkin, you're saying that joaquin shouldn't be grieving for his dead brother? The fact that he basically blew himself in the head with drugs, let's put that aside, it makes no difference (if anything that'd make the death more tragic for joaquin, probably, just like losing a loved one to alcohol would be worse than if they just died in their sleep).
That aside, you're telling people you've never met how to feel in a situation you've only read about (if that).
That strike anyone as odd?

He can grieve until the resurrection for all I care. I just don't care

to read/hear about him or his brother, that's all. Calling his

death "tragic" is like calling a drunk driving car wreck

an "accident". It's belittling to real "tragedies" and "accidents".


I'm not telling people "how" to feel. I just stated at some point

you need to move on. It's dangerous to grieve for an extended

period of time. People are free to feel how they want to feel.

[napkin]

I stopped caring about your post after this statement.

Originally posted by Briare Rabbit
Napkin:
You dont have ANY idea what in the fucking hell you're talking about.

[napkin]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Whatever, tough guy. We're all impressed by your huge balls.

It's about being practical/reasonable. I don't see it as being

tough at all (like I stated earlier Mess with the Bull...). Jesus,

showed less empathy towards the dead. Do people feel this way

towards him (rhetorical question)? People are more upset with

me because this guy is famous (If he wasn't it would just be a

stoic "oh, that's sad" response to this thread). If somebody:

poured gasoline on themselves and then while playing with some

matches, suddenly burned themselves to death. People would

nominate them for a "Darwin Award".


This is how I feel about people who "willfully" do drugs. I'm not

criticizing his grief as much as I am the "avoidable" death of his

brother.

[Patrick Bateman]

It is my (and it should be yours as well, napkin) understanding that if you cannot try and post just a little bit CONSTRUCTIVELY, then dont bother posting what is clearly incoherent negativity.
Yes, you do have your right to your opinion. But you always have the option to not click on the thread as well, don't you?

I agree with what Donna A., and Saruman said, lets get back on topic.
Joaquin Phoenix is one of my favourite actors, and I really sympathize with his loss. The unexpected death of a family member, be it in hollywood, or the rest of the world, is a tragedy. Even though River Phoenix's death could have been avoided, Joaquin has every right to grieve his brothers death.
No one gets to choose who their family members will be. But you love them anyways. Through the good times, and bad.

[BadCoverVersion]

Originally posted by napkin
It's about being practical/reasonable. I don't see it as being

tough at all (like I stated earlier Mess with the Bull...). Jesus,

showed less empathy towards the dead. Do people feel this way

towards him (rhetorical question)? People are more upset with

me because this guy is famous (If he wasn't it would just be a

stoic "oh, that's sad" response to this thread). If somebody:

poured gasoline on themselves and then while playing with some

matches, suddenly burned themselves to death. People would

nominate them for a "Darwin Award".


This is how I feel about people who "willfully" do drugs. I'm not

criticizing his grief as much as I am the "avoidable" death of his

brother.

Have a word with yourself.

Nobody is asking you to sympathise with the 'drug abuser' here.

A VERY close friend of mine hung himself just mere weeks ago, I was actually living with him at the time. Do I curse the dead old swine for his 'selfish' act? Of course I fucking do! But...I still mourn for him.

You appear to be degrading Joaquin's RIGHT to grieve based on the manner of his siblings untimely death.

In short, you're talking bollocks.

[Shockwave]

Napkin, u have my sympathy far more then then Joaquin does.

Im not saying his death couldnt have been avoided, but your whole "fuck em all!" bull shit is pretty sad.

..but then again, your probably just doing it for attention so i guess ill stop.

[Tweek]

Originally posted by Shockwave


..but then again, your probably just doing it for attention so i guess ill stop.


as will i as he's obviously not getting the point (purposefully or not)

[Twisted Sister]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by napkin
It's obvious reading comprehension is not your strength.


So let's see, Napkin... You want to open a can of literary whoop-ass on a fellow Schmoe, do you? Well, I can tell you that English comprehension IS a strength of mine, and I can state that with confidence because it's part of what I do for a living. In my opinion, your posts are inarticulately composed. Your opinions seem ill-formed and appear to based in emotion instead of experience or empirical fact.

People hate it, when a person such as myself shatters the

perception of their deities. .

I think you're missing the boat here, Napkin. I haven't read a single post slamming your opinion about River. You are receiving the backlash that you are solely because you are attacking his lifestyle when the point of this thread is to express empathy/sympathy for Joaquin's personal anguish. There are many Schmoes who have strong opinions that I may not agree with, but we are civil at all times on the boards and treat each other with respect. The condescending overtones of your posts definitely violate that rule.

[inglourious basterd]

Originally posted by napkin
Exactly !! Finally someone who understands (even if they

disagree). It's called "Personal Responsibility". I hold people

accountable for their own actions.

Mess with the bull, you get the horns !!


Every effect has a cause. If you really believe in personal responsibility to the extremes, then there would be no situation in which you would feel compelled to feel sympathy for anyone.

When someone that is close to you (a wife, brother, friend, parent) dies with something like heart disease it is hard for me to believe that you won't feel any sadness. I personally don't care about Joaquin or River at all...I just think your argument is flawed.

[napkin]

I was wondering what you were babbling about, until I read this...

Originally posted by Patrick Bateman
Joaquin Phoenix is one of my favourite actors

Your post would have been "coherent", had you started it

with "In my bias opinion...". Then I could've respected it.


Im not saying his death couldnt have been avoided, but your whole "fuck em all!" bull shit is pretty sad.

This is not my attitude at all. I just choose not to make his grief

more important, than the grief of others.



The more you people post, the more you prove my points.

I'm more critical of peoples' reaction to his grief, than the

grieving victim himself.

I hope you all extend this same compassion, for the grieving

families of those executed on death row. Oh wait!! I forgot this

forum is for "celebrities" and how important their lives are. When

I come here I should throw "perspective" to the wind.


Since I've been accused of seeking "attention" :rolleyes: . I will

leave you all to grieve. I now know that of the millions who grieve

each year, their grief is felt by all of you *gives thumbs up*. I'm

sure you get just as upset everytime you hear it. ;)

So, say goodnight to the bad guy......

[Winston Wolfe]

This thread has gone waaaaaaaaay off-topic. It's to note that this is a CELEBRITY GOSSIP forum, so let's stick to the topics at hand.

Napkin and others, you've come very close to being BANNED from our board. Remember that debates are what we're all about, but as soon as you start DISRESPECTING others (even in indirect ways), you're no longer welcome here.

This is a private board with rules. Please re-read them here: http://www.joblo.com/rules.htm

Thanks for understanding.