The Election Thread!

[someguy]

This thread is for tomorrow's election coverages and to comment on the winners, losers, etc. Right now we can just discuss our thoughts until tomorrow.

I still think that Bush will win.

[jeo4]

I still think you're probably right. Bush by a hair.

[Moviefan1234]

I think right now it's a true tossup. Kerry seems to have gained ground recently in Ohio and Florida. I wouldn't be surprised if it were the opposite of 2000 where Bush wins the popular vote and loses the electorial.

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by Moviefan1234
I think right now it's a true tossup. Kerry seems to have gained ground recently in Ohio and Florida. I wouldn't be surprised if it were the opposite of 2000 where Bush wins the popular vote and loses the electorial.

I had a very interesting conversation with my brother last week. He lives in FL and voted for Bush, but said that every one of his friends was voting for Kerry, and that he thinks Bush is going to lose. And today I read a poll (worthless, I know), that Kerry has gained a lot of ground in Florida...

Bubba, if you're reading this, what do you think? You live in Florida - is there anything to it?

[Lynn7]

I think that Bush will win and that we will know it tommorrow. I am disturbed at the level of fraud going on though with many areas that have more people registered than there are legal voters in their counties. Pretty scary stuff going on.We need to tighten up the way people vote. I don't like all these registration drives where they are signing up Mary Poppins and Luke Skywalker as voters.

[DaMovieMan]

I think Kerry will win even though i thought that he wasnt a few weeks ago but i think these days before the election and also other factors (ex: Bin Laden tape) helped Kerry and gave him the edge. It will be very very tight but i think Kerry will win at the end. Deservedly so.




DMM

[Criminal Rock]

I think Bush will win the popular and electoral votes, for the fact that there are more lazy democrats then there are republicans... from my experience at least.

[Criminal Rock]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
I had a very interesting conversation with my brother last week. He lives in FL and voted for Bush, but said that every one of his friends was voting for Kerry, and that he thinks Bush is going to lose. And today I read a poll (worthless, I know), that Kerry has gained a lot of ground in Florida...

Bubba, if you're reading this, what do you think? You live in Florida - is there anything to it?

There are a total of 6 or 7 polls representing over a thousand people, on behalf of Florida’s "opinions" for politics (publicly). All I know is that the majority of them boast Bush as a higher percentage carrier, rather then Kerry; nevertheless, all of the polls are exactly equal because of the margin of error, which makes it a statistical tie.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
I think Bush will win the popular and electoral votes, for the fact that there are more lazy democrats then there are republicans... from my experience at least.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight .

new subject: cream cheese.



at any rate, i think Kerry will win if the votes don't get all budgered up again (which they probably won't, but that's not the point)




Through Like Crue

~darchangel~

[The Postmaster General]

Twisted:

All my years in Florida (recently transfered to Minnesota) I had no idea until 2000 that Florida was a swing state. They did vote Clinton in 1996, but that never changed my mind. I always considered Florida to be largely Republican. I've always had Republicans in my circle of friends, and just because of the population, I always felt like it leans that way.

Looking at FLA's history, it does seem like they always vote for the incumbent, so going by that I'm giving it to Bush in Florida. I'm mean, we did vote Jeb Bush for two terms as governor, and that says a lot IMO.

[Cyclonus]

Wisconsin is one of the most hotly contested states in this election. During the past few months, both Bush and Kerry have held rallies several times throught the state, including here in Green Bay--I didn't attend any of them though, too much hassle. I just hope that they do a better job counting our votes than Flordia did last time. :o

From what I understand, though, Bush has a pretty strong hold on my county. I wish I still lived in the much more liberal city of Milwaukee, which is at least a more important area anyways.

My prediction? Kerry, if only by a narrow margin. A lot of people are sick of Dubya's bullshit, but he still has plenty of supporters.

[free]

I am disturbed at the level of fraud going on though with many areas that have more people registered than there are legal voters in their counties.

I agree. I was looking throught the news today and found this on snopes.

Claim: A Texas woman who cast her vote for all Democratic candidates discovered her ballot marked for Bush/Cheney.

Status: True.

Source (http://snopes.com/politics/ballot/travis.asp)

I can't help but think that was done intentially. I do hope it is contained, but somehow I doubt it.

[MacReady]

When will we know who won?

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by MacReady
When will we know who won?


January 20th is when the new president gets sworn in.

Usually, we know by around midnight, but in 2000 it dragged on for 3 weeks.

[bob]

The CNN and Fox News coverage right now is hilarious. They keep pimping Bush as having a huge advantage, when the only states in are Vermont and the Deep South.

[The Postmaster General]

I'm watching MSNBC, and they are treating it like it was expected for him to have those states anyway.

Also - Isn't Indiana in? That's far from the Deep South.

Just saying....

[MacReady]

I know who won!

http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/images/CNN-Election-Winner.jpg

I have a feeling Cyclonus' campaigning had something to do with it.;)

Seriously thought,

Bush has nearly 200 electoral votes while Kerry a good walking distance to 150...

Hudson:That's it man, game over man, game over! :(

[Thrizzle]

Yea, doesnt look good for humanity right now :p .

[Cyclonus]

So far Bush is in the lead 193-112. I don't know what I'll do if he wins. :(

(Still thanks for the Transformers joke. It did put a smile on my face.)

[Tweek]

Yea, doesnt look good for humanity right now .


Anyone in canada willing to let me sleep in their basement for awhile?
I'm quiet and toilet-trained.

[Scarface98.9]

246 electoral votes for Bush vs. 195 electoral votes for Kerry, with Ohio most likely going to Bush.

:(

Someone. Hold me.

[outsyder]

Originally posted by Tweek
Anyone in canada willing to let me sleep in their basement for awhile?
I'm quiet and toilet-trained.



Trust me, our corrupt and self serving government is much worse. You wouldn't believe the crap the Liberals get away with in power.



GO CAPITALISM!:D

[BorderEevilIII]

The race is really a big suspensfull rollercoaster ride that takes us on twists and turns. At the rate its goin it could be either one.
Bush maybe be in the lead but Kerry is still not far behind.........

[free]

Well, all but CNN have Bush at 269. Kerry is from 238 to 247.

Kerry needs to pick up Iowa, Nevada, and New Mexico. Hopefully, Ohio will eventually go to Kerry.

Anyone hear about the Elector in West Virginia who said he would vote for Kerry no matter what? If it goes to 269-269, that guy could be a BIG influence,

[BorderEevilIII]

Originally posted by free
Ohio will eventually go to Kerry.


According to Yahoo's main page it does show that its all up to Ohio who has the big "20" electoral votes that actually decides the winner...
:( And so far its Dubya who has the upper hand at the moment :mad:

[free]

And so far its Dubya who has the upper hand at the moment

Yeah, I'm trying to be optimistic.

If it's certified that Bush wins, I will be truly afraid for my life.

He conducted 2 wars, severed good relations with just about every ally, and got the Patriot Act passed, which can be used to limit personal freedom and privacy, while he was worried about a 2nd term, and he has control of the house and senate.

I can't imagine what he'd do if he didn't have to worry about being re-elected!! I predict in 2 years there will be some kind of nuclear war.

[charliebobo]

Bush won.

I'm pretty disgusted right now. Seems Americans have learned nothing.

[free]

Well, technically, Kerry could still win if the courts award him Ohio, but it's a long shot. Yahoo has the electoral count at Bush 256 Kerry 254, but that doesn't include New Mexico (which probably is Bush's) and Iowa (ditto).

Oh, BTW...

http://snopes.com/politics/graphics/sign02.jpg

:p

[The Postmaster General]

Looks as if GW has won. The only hope for Kerry is the 250 thousand provisional ballots, which belong to people dropped from voting rolls, or those unrightly disqualified.

I'm just happy it wasn't Florida this time. Floridians had too much hardache this year.

It looked like my predictions on FLA going to Bush were right. I'm tellin' yeah - they voted his brother in not once, but twice.

[HannibalGuy]

Looks like W is going to win. He just needs 1 more vote to reach 270. YAY!!!

[Moviefan1234]

I'm truly ashamed to call myself an American right now. I don't understand how the citizens of this nation can vote this guy in. The rest of the world must be so baffled, and to them I apologize. I think it's time we cut Ohio off.

[BorderEevilIII]

I thought I was gonna wake up to see whats his face AGAIN.........
It looks like its gonna be a DEAD HEAT race for the white house. What kills me is the results and the media suggesting that its BUSH..... :confused: :mad:

Well the FINAL three states, OHIO (which is the Florida state this year), New Mexico & Iowa are the states thats gonna decide who gets it.
New Mexico and Iowa shows a 1% diff and Ohio the biggee because of its 20 electoral votes is the state George is relying on is sooo close. I am glad that Kerry HAS NOT conceded yet. :D

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by Moviefan1234
I'm truly ashamed to call myself an American right now. I don't understand how the citizens of this nation can vote this guy in. The rest of the world must be so baffled, and to them I apologize. I think it's time we cut Ohio off.

My thoughts exactly. When I put my personal convictions aside, and just LOOK at George W., and LISTEN to him, I think, "Wow, if this guy were my co-worker, neighbor, etc., I'd avoid him like the plague." I can't figure out just who's voting for him. Even when you look at the boards, the general support here is overwhelmingly Democratic. This whole election feels incredibly surreal. I'll be so glad when Ohio's results are finalized and we can all move on.

It's so discouraging that we seem to divide Americans into two categories, when America is truly all about diversity. Shouldn't we have a political system that reflects that?

:confused:

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
Looks as if GW has won. The only hope for Kerry is the 250 thousand provisional ballots, which belong to people dropped from voting rolls, or those unrightly disqualified.

I'm just happy it wasn't Florida this time. Floridians had too much hardache this year.

It looked like my predictions on FLA going to Bush were right. I'm tellin' yeah - they voted his brother in not once, but twice.

Agreed. One one hand, I'm happy for the FL residents like my mom and bro because they didn't have to put up with the same crap all over again. But I do think it SUCKS to be Jeb, because the pressure is now on him to continue the dynasty in 2008. Based on interviews that I've seen, he seems hesitant to run.

[jeo4]

Originally posted by charliebobo
Bush won.

I'm pretty disgusted right now. Seems Americans have learned nothing.

Sure we have. We've learned we don't like to be told how to vote. ;)

[jeo4]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
Agreed. One one hand, I'm happy for the FL residents like my mom and bro because they didn't have to put up with the same crap all over again. But I do think it SUCKS to be Jeb, because the pressure is now on him to continue the dynasty in 2008. Based on interviews that I've seen, he seems hesitant to run.

I'll bet he doesn't.

[Twisted Sister]

Kerry just conceded.

[Moviefan1234]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
Kerry just conceded.

I haven't been this disturbed in a long, long time. :(

[HannibalGuy]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
Kerry just conceded.
Yep, I just saw that on TV. FUCK YES!!!

[MacReady]

Originally posted by jeo4
Sure we have. We've learned we don't like to be told how to vote. ;)

I wouldn't mock the Italian guy if I were you. It won't be long now before your country ends up alot like his from about 70 years ago.;)

[horrorfreak13]

Well this probably increases the chances that the Canadian dollar will probably be even or be passed the American dollar within the next 4 years. Maybe 2 years at the pace it's going.

Even thought I couldn't vote I among many other Canadians that I know wanted to see Kerry win.

Althought while watching the election coverage it seemed that CBC and CBS were declaring state winners before pretty much everyone else. I think all the stations weren't going to get embarrased like 4 years ago.

But I'm impressed with the turnout of the election now maybe we can get a bigger turnout in Canada the next time they do their election.

[Criminal Rock]

I’m going to laugh my ass off if people claim that it was an unfair election… I don’t know if I can survive the hilarity again... the hilarity is confounding. literally.

[jeo4]

Originally posted by MacReady
I wouldn't mock the Italian guy if I were you. It won't be long now before your country ends up alot like his from about 70 years ago.;)

Don't count on it.

[JCR]

Well do feel free to send me a postcard from iran, jeo4

[A.J. Hakari]

Ladies and gentlemen, I will now have a WTF? expression on my face for the next four years.

:confused:

[The Postmaster General]

Looks like we have a weiner, er... I mean WINNER.

This is the first time in ages (ever?) that the Republicans have control of the Senate, House, and a majority of the governor seats.

I think there will be enormous change in the next 4 years, and would not be surprised to see 3rd party candidates emerging strong in 2008.

Congrads to the Republican Party, and condolensces to the Democratic Farm Labor Party, who should be thankful to have had some strong wins with Obama, and many of the extremists in Minnesota have been voted out.

[Mentiroso]

Just read the good news myself. Kerry will go on tv around 1pm to concede for all to see. Thank god, I could not stand to live in a country with that moron democrat being in charge. Plus having to look at his long horse face on an almost daily basis would make me gag. At least we know thatover half this country has some sense on who the better leader is.

[jeo4]

Originally posted by JCR
Well do feel free to send me a postcard from iran, jeo4

I'm plenty old enough not to be in the military and I already served my time, so maybe I'll send you a post card when you do your tour of duty.

[blankpage]

I really don't know what to think right now. I was honestly thinking Kerry was going to win, but barely. For the longest time, I also thought Ohio was going to go to Kerry. But by 3, I was pretty sure my prediction wasn't going to happen.

Anyway...I don't know how I feel about this. I'm not angry that Bush is in...I'm just..trying to let it settle in.

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
I’m going to laugh my ass off if people claim that it was an unfair election… I don’t know if I can survive the hilarity again... the hilarity is confounding. literally.

Why would you "laugh your ass off?" The election in 2000 wasn't funny. At all.

Actually, Tai Mai Jew, the majority of Kerry supporters that I've spoken with today are saying that Bush won fair and square. The other thing they say is "People that voted for Bush are getting everything they asked for, and we'll see if they feel the same way four years from now."

Just an FYI, I'm not pissed off about Kerry losing, just very very sad, because I feel that our country doesn't realize what they've done. To me, this election was never about Kerry vs. Bush. It was about securing America and staying on the road to progression.

[jeo4]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
Looks like we have a weiner, er... I mean WINNER.

This is the first time in ages (ever?) that the Republicans have control of the Senate, House, and a majority of the governor seats.

I think there will be enormous change in the next 4 years, and would not be surprised to see 3rd party candidates emerging strong in 2008.

Congrads to the Republican Party, and condolensces to the Democratic Farm Labor Party, who should be thankful to have had some strong wins with Obama, and many of the extremists in Minnesota have been voted out.

The House, Senate and White House were controlled by the Republicans as of 2002 as well.

I think that the third party candidates will be a welcome change.

My condolences to the Democrats as well...this campaign was a rough one, harder than most. I'm sure John Edwards could run for President and get the popular vote in 2008, especially against a non-incumbent President. And as I had mentioned in another thread, one in ten voters between eighteen and 24 voted in this election. That number will change drastically in the next four years.

[HannibalGuy]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
I feel that our country doesn't realize what they've done.
Oh come on, you're acting like it's the apocalypse.

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by HannibalGuy
Oh come on, you're acting like it's the apocalypse.

Why do you say that? I didn't even allude to anything apocalyptic.

[JCR]

Originally posted by jeo4
I'm plenty old enough not to be in the military and I already served my time, so maybe I'll send you a post card when you do your tour of duty.


Alas due to cerebal palsy I can't see me ever being called up. What a pity ;)

[flowrchild]

Originally posted by HannibalGuy
Oh come on, you're acting like it's the apocalypse.

Well maybe for some of us, it is.

This is horrible news and I can't fully process it. Conservatives are controlling just about every area of our political system right now, and that scares the shit out of me. Bush will also get to elect a few more Republicans to the Supreme Court, possibly.

This is not a democracy, it's a war-hungry country being taken over and run by the Conservatives. It's a huge deal and I'm very upset by it.

[charliebobo]

Originally posted by Moviefan1234
I'm truly ashamed to call myself an American right now. I don't understand how the citizens of this nation can vote this guy in. The rest of the world must be so baffled, and to them I apologize.

Yes, yes we are. But thanks for the apologies :)

[jeo4]

Come on, people...can't we just let bygones be bygones and work together?

Link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=1&u=/ap/20041103/ap_on_re_eu/eln_world_view_6)

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by flowrchild
Well maybe for some of us, it is.

This is horrible news and I can't fully process it. Conservatives are controlling just about every area of our political system right now, and that scares the shit out of me. Bush will also get to elect a few more Republicans to the Supreme Court, possibly.

This is not a democracy, it's a war-hungry country being taken over and run by the Conservatives. It's a huge deal and I'm very upset by it.

I'm with you 100%, flowrchild. We now have the four biggest aspects of our goverment being controlled by a Conservative majority: Government, the Senate, the House and the President. This is very scary for progressively-minded citizens. Our country is is de-volving right before our very eyes. :(

[HannibalGuy]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
Why do you say that? I didn't even allude to anything apocalyptic.
It was just the way you wrote what you wrote. To me, it came off as "OMG!!! WHAT HAVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DONE!!!", like Bush winning was a cataclysmic event!

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by HannibalGuy
It was just the way you wrote what you wrote. To me, it came off as "OMG!!! WHAT HAVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DONE!!!", like Bush winning was a cataclysmic event!

With all due respect, HannibalGuy, I do not know where you're getting that impression, nor do I get into posting-wars with other Schmoes.

That being said, please allow me clarify my stance: America, a country who has long prided itself on its diversity, is now being controlled by an undiverse group of conservative politicians. Laws will be written and enforced based on their belief systems, convictions that do not represent the nation as a whole. Laws based on bias are unfair. Period. There are real and long-lasting implications when we elect such an unbalanced government, regardless of the party.

[AppleHuntr]

Originally posted by HannibalGuy
It was just the way you wrote what you wrote. To me, it came off as "OMG!!! WHAT HAVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DONE!!!", like Bush winning was a cataclysmic event!

Um, Bush winning IS a "cataclysmic event".

I agree with the above posts by flowrchild and Twisted Sister, America does not realize what they have just done. First of all, the GLBT community is fucked. Plain and simple. This win will be totally devastating for them and I dont think people realize that, and if they do our country is worse off than I thought. I know that 11 states passed a gay marriage ban, but the Bush administartion has been doing things on the sly to harm the GLBT community, Margaret Cho reported that there are actions being taken to make it legal to fire people because of their sexuality. No job, no marriage, no equal rights. Why are people allowing this?

Second of all, "moral values" was apparently the deciding factor. As the economy slides down the toilet and more men and women are brutally killed overseas for no reason, just hang on tight to them values. Oh, and gays are bad and abortion kills cute little babies. Why did people base their vote on these issues when more important ones are so obvious and important to the progression of our country? I really want to know.

I guess that's good that Minnesota won Kerry (I had friends who participated in Get Out The Vote campaigns, and if we would of lost Minnesota to Bush they would have been devasted, well more so than they already are) but I was hoping for so much more.

If Bush fucks up even half as much his second term as he did the first, this is going to be a VERY bumpy four years.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
Just read the good news myself. Kerry will go on tv around 1pm to concede for all to see. Thank god, I could not stand to live in a country with that moron democrat being in charge. Plus having to look at his long horse face on an almost daily basis would make me gag. At least we know thatover half this country has some sense on who the better leader is.



the overwhelming wit and intelligence of this post is very nearly the genius level of Einstein...


:rolleyes:


if you're going to dislike Kerry, why don't you, i don't know...dislike him for an actual reason, not something such as 'he looks like a horse'? a novel idea, don't you think?


Through Like Crue

~darchangel~

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by AppleHuntr
Second of all, "moral values" was apparently the deciding factor. As the economy slides down the toilet and more men and women are brutally killed overseas for no reason, just hang on tight to them values. Oh, and gays are bad and abortion kills cute little babies. Why did people base their vote on these issues when more important ones are so obvious and important to the progression of our country? I really want to know.


Oh, God, wait til Lynn7 reads that. :p

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
Oh, God, wait til Lynn7 reads that. :p


<waits for the inevitable barrage of anti-democrat sentiment>





Through Like Crue

~darchangel~

[SenorSpielbergo]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
Thank god, I could not stand to live in a country with that moron democrat being in charge.

Yeah, Bush is obviously a genius.

[someguy]

Originally posted by SenorSpielbergo
Yeah, Bush is obviously a genius.

http://cdn.aim.com/i/8-Laughing.gif

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by someguy
http://cdn.aim.com/i/8-Laughing.gif

Someguy, that smiley scared the shit outta me!

[BakeTheMooCow]

It was naive of those level-headed few among us to simply expect logic and common sense to prevail. It doesn't work that way. This country is still knee-deep in religious fundamentalism. People don't want truth and rationality to prevail. They want to be lied to, they want to be told that God is on their side, they want to cuddle up in their warm comfortable cocoon of homophobia, paralysing fear and a lack of respect and understanding for the rest of the world. As long as we're here wallowing in our ignorance, who gives a shaved rat's nutsack what happens to those dirty foreigners? We had our chance to get out, but we chose not to take it. America has collectively dug its own grave and it deserves what it gets. I'm almost glad.

[Thrizzle]

Wow. Just...wow.

So let me get this straight. The guy messes up for 4 straight years. The economy sucks, foreign relations suck, the war in Iraq is a disaster and guess what, completely unjustified. Corporations are robbing America, and oil prices are rising to record levels...almost nothing is going well.....AND WE RE-ELECT THIS GUY!?!?

Congrats Democracts, you've failed miserably.

I wish Clinton were still in office. Filthy adulterer, but he sure knew how to run a country. Naaaah, a president should be a man of family values...being able to run a country is secondary.

[Andrew Tom]

Ummm...wow. Maybe I was one of the naive ones as well. I was so sure that Kerry would win. Even though I'm not an american, I do fear what the next four years bring.

Or then again maybe Bush'll wise up. Doubt it though...

[Squid Vicious]

Well, to quote Samir from Office Space, THIS IS A FUCK!!!!

[Tuukka]

I was pretty confident that Bush was going to win, so no suprises here.

It'll be interesting how the next four years are going to turn out. I believe there will be at least one more war and a lot more fiscal problems for americans ahead. I also believe that the citizens of USA are going to be increasingly ripped off of their rights and freedoms thanks to Bush. Patriot Act was the first step. More is to come.

But when things get really, really bad, there is always going to be a backlash. Personally I think that, yes, things are going to get really bad.

[Raoul Duke]

It's more scary to me that Bush won the election fairly, instead of some voting screw overs like the first one...

Ah, well. Here in Canada, it's just amazing to us that he has been re-elected.

Good luck, I hope you fellas can pull through the next four years.

[Thrizzle]

Yea and i can't believe the Republicans have control OVER EVERYTHING.

[Tweek]

Thank god, I could not stand to live in a country with that moron democrat being in charge.

by that are you trying to insinuate that all democrats are morons or just Kerry?

First of all, the GLBT community is fucked. Plain and simple. This win will be totally devastating for them and I dont think people realize that, and if they do our country is worse off than I thought. I know that 11 states passed a gay marriage ban, but the Bush administartion has been doing things on the sly to harm the GLBT community, Margaret Cho reported that there are actions being taken to make it legal to fire people because of their sexuality. No job, no marriage, no equal rights. Why are people allowing this?

Oi! if that's true... gah

[darchangel]

Originally posted by BakeTheMooCow
It was naive of those level-headed few among us to simply expect logic and common sense to prevail. It doesn't work that way. This country is still knee-deep in religious fundamentalism. People don't want truth and rationality to prevail. They want to be lied to, they want to be told that God is on their side, they want to cuddle up in their warm comfortable cocoon of homophobia, paralysing fear and a lack of respect and understanding for the rest of the world. As long as we're here wallowing in our ignorance, who gives a shaved rat's nutsack what happens to those dirty foreigners? We had our chance to get out, but we chose not to take it. America has collectively dug its own grave and it deserves what it gets. I'm almost glad.


preach it, Bake.

the only thing i can't really agree with is the last sentence of your post; i did my absolute duty in trying to ensure that Bush would not be re-elected, yet my state (WV) voted him in, despite my efforts.

i think those who choose to follow someone whose administration has made such a mess of our economy, corrupted our laws to exclude certain groups of Americans and has made enemies of nearly every country in the world deserve what THEY get...i think i deserve a president who doesn't run on a platform of homophobic, xenophobic, sexist witch hunting.


Through Like Crue

~darchangel~

[MarkItZero]

Originally posted by AppleHuntr
Margaret Cho reported that there are actions being taken to make it legal to fire people because of their sexuality. No job, no marriage, no equal rights. Why are people allowing this?

I know I alway look to Margaret Cho to keep me informed.

:rolleyes:

Since Bush won does that mean that Micheal Moore and everyone else who promised to leave, will actually get out? I sure hope so.

[Indiana Sev]

Originally posted by MarkItZero
Since Bush won does that mean that Micheal Moore and everyone else who promised to leave, will actually get out? I sure hope so.

So do I.

I didn't really have a preference to who won but I can't stand these celebrities that make these statements to move to France or some other country if things don't go their way in the election.

That's the exact opposite of being patriotic, in my opinion. It not only shows ingratitude towards the country that gave you everything you have but is also shows that they're unwilling to try and make things better, in whatever way they can.

[jeo4]

Originally posted by Indiana Sev
So do I.

I didn't really have a preference to who won but I can't stand these celebrities that make these statements to move to France or some other country if things don't go their way in the election.

That's the exact opposite of being patriotic, in my opinion. It not only shows ingratitude towards the country that gave you everything you have but is also shows that they're unwilling to try and make things better, in whatever way they can.

A-FUCKING-MEN.

[MarkItZero]

Originally posted by Indiana Sev
That's the exact opposite of being patriotic, in my opinion. It not only shows ingratitude towards the country that gave you everything you have but is also shows that they're unwilling to try and make things better, in whatever way they can.

I agree 100%.

Though hopefully for you, they dont all end up in Montreal!

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
Twisted:

All my years in Florida (recently transfered to Minnesota) I had no idea until 2000 that Florida was a swing state. They did vote Clinton in 1996, but that never changed my mind. I always considered Florida to be largely Republican. I've always had Republicans in my circle of friends, and just because of the population, I always felt like it leans that way.

Looking at FLA's history, it does seem like they always vote for the incumbent, so going by that I'm giving it to Bush in Florida. I'm mean, we did vote Jeb Bush for two terms as governor, and that says a lot IMO.

All I can say is "me too" to just about everything in your post. It's kind of eerie, really. I, too, recently moved to Minnesota (and, btw, have been blown away by what a liberal state it is). I also lived in St. Pete for 7 years and was ALWAYS the minority progressive voice amongst my southern conservative friends. Interesting - because I always wondered if it was just me, or if people really WERE that conservative.

[DaMovieMan]

Originally posted by MarkItZero


Though hopefully for you, they dont all end up in Montreal!

Im leaving for Montreal by the end of the year and now I cant wait.

REACTION:

Well, I have officially lost some respect for the half of the population which made Bush run another term. As a foreigner who knows how it feels like to be bombed by America for pathetically flawed reasons and excuses I ask this: WHAT THE HELL IS AMERICA THINKING?

Osama and his comrades will have a field day with this which is even more reason why Im happy to be leaving the US (at least for the next 4 years ill be gone).

Bush has made so many tremendous mistakes during his first 4 years and we can expect nothing less and only more in terms of mistakes, flaws and tragedies that connect to Mr. Bush.

I feel sorry for America. I feel sorry for the American troops, whose stay in Iraq has no been officially prolonged. I feel sorry for the Iraqi people who will still have a foreign country playing their boss. The wrong man got the job YET AGAIN. Didnt believe it could happen but it did.


DMM

[Cyclonus]

I honestly don't understand how so many people could have voted for Bush, after how badly he's done last term. I have to wonder if the elections were rigged after all. :(

Edit: Someone below took exception to the way I originally phrased it. I still don't think it was especially offensive, but I edited it anyways to avoid a fuss.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by jeo4
Don't count on it.

What, do you think that after WWII folks in Germany said "well, he was an evil man, but we all saw it coming..."?

[jeo4]

Originally posted by MacReady
What, do you think that after WWII folks in Germany said "well, he was an evil man, but we all saw it coming..."?

No, but I don't see Bush crowning himself emperor anytime soon.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by jeo4
No, but I don't see Bush crowning himself emperor anytime soon.

In this thread or another like it it spoke of him appointing the supreme court judges. Also, neither Hitler or Musolini declared themselves emperor. In fact, I remember hearing about how Adolph became popular after a terrorist attack.

Oh, and Lynn might enjoy this map about how America gonna look like in the next 4 years:

http://idisk.mac.com/glwebb-public/new_map.jpg

[JCR]

Originally posted by jeo4
No, but I don't see Bush crowning himself emperor anytime soon.

I'm not saying bush is like hitler at all, because he isn't but it is always worth noting hitler didn't really crown himself emperor as you put it until after he had won 2 free and fair elections in germany. A warning from history if ever there was one.

(NB: LOL regarding macreadys map :D)

[RicochetShaw]

Originally posted by flowrchild


This is not a democracy, it's a war-hungry country being taken over and run by the Conservatives. It's a huge deal and I'm very upset by it.

Ah, c'mon flowr, do you really mean that? I know we're mostly upset about this election, but we can't sink to what extreme Right-wingers have done. When things don't go our way, we can't just say that the system isn't working, and we're drifting from our ideals like Democracy. The election of the President, House of Representatives, and Senators was an exercise in Democracy, whether we like the outcome or not. It's the majority that had the say in this election, and that's the definition of the word: majority rule.

P.S. I don't mean to nit-pick, but being a country of war also doesn't discard the fact that a country is a democracy. The birthplace of Democracy, Athens, would make us look like a pacifist country, relatively speaking.

[RicochetShaw]

Originally posted by MacReady
Also, neither Hitler or Musolini didn't declare themselves emperor.


Huh? So, they DID declare themselves emperors?




Originally posted by MacReady
Oh, and Lynn might enjoy this map about how America gonna look like in the next 4 years:

LOL. Well, if anyone is going to critique what Bush has done to America's education system, especially in grammar, it better not be the Canucks. ;)

[RicochetShaw]

Oh, and it might be 20 years away, but I'd like to take this oppurtunity to campaign.


Vote Shaw in 2024!!! :)

[Raoul Duke]

In my newspaper it talked about people originally from the States that now live in Canada but still retain a dual citizenship. They plan on staying in Canada definitely for the next four years. Their friends in the States also plan on moving to Canada out of fear of their children being caught in a draft or a back-door draft.

I don't see why these people should feel shame in leaving until Bush is gone...They've put up with his crap for four years, and now even MORE? How is that fair to them?

[flowrchild]

Originally posted by RicochetShaw
It's the majority that had the say in this election, and that's the definition of the word: majority rule

But that's the point-- the majority of people do not speak for the minority, which is the problem with this political system. If a huge portion of the country are religious right wingers, who is speaking out for the beliefs and needs of the non religious left wingers? Before Bush, there was at least MORE of a balance (not an entire balance, but moreso). Now the Conservatives have more pull in many areas of politics, including the Supreme Court, and their numbers will only increase.

I don't have a problem with Conservatives, but I do have a problem with Conservatives essentially running the country and not helping people with different viewpoints than their own. I would feel the same way if Liberals were running the entire country. I think what we need is balance in order to stay afloat and be a moderate society, instead of veering on either extreme side of the spectrum. The balance is now heavily shifted, and that is problematic to many people.

[QUENTIN]

It's official: America, and much of the world, totally fucked.

[Cyclonus]

Originally posted by MacReady
Oh, and Lynn might enjoy this map about how America gonna look like in the next 4 years:

http://idisk.mac.com/glwebb-public/new_map.jpg

According to that map, I'm technically in Canada already, so I don't need to worry about the hassle of packing there. All I need to do is sit and wait. :D

[AppleHuntr]

Originally posted by MarkItZero
I know I alway look to Margaret Cho to keep me informed.

:rolleyes:

Since Bush won does that mean that Micheal Moore and everyone else who promised to leave, will actually get out? I sure hope so.

I just used Margaret Cho as a reference because she was the first one I heard that bit of news from, I don't rely on celebrities for my news but if they bring something to my attention that I was not aware of than I will take notice, especially if it something as heinous as this.

I do agree that we should not lose hope, my friends and I were talking and if anything this makes us all want to get more involved in helping this country make progress (aka help out in the DFL groups around here). The next 4 years are not going to be fun but we have no choice but to fight harder, that or give up. Giving up sure is tempting considering half the country is satisfied with what just happened but I know that is not the smart choice.


Hey, I also already live in the United States of Canada!
no movin' for me...

[jeo4]

Originally posted by MacReady
In this thread or another like it it spoke of him appointing the supreme court judges. Also, neither Hitler or Musolini didn't declare themselves emperor. In fact, I remember hearing about how Adolph became popular after a terrorist attack.

Oh, and Lynn might enjoy this map about how America gonna look like in the next 4 years:

http://idisk.mac.com/glwebb-public/new_map.jpg

1. Can't refute the fact that judicial appointments are a President's assignment. I can definitely argue the fact that this is in no way a dictatorship just because Supreme Court Justices are assigned by our President.

2. The way you make it sound, Bush is a power mad ruler like Mussolini or Hitler. He's not.

3. Do you know what Fuhrer means? Not the dictionary definition, but the actual translation fro German. It means absolute ruler. That's what Hitler declared himself. Bush is just a temporary leader. He's not the anti-Christ either, as far as I know.

4. If you are referring to the terror attack known as The Night Of Long Knives, that attack was Hitler's attack on his political enemies to make himself more popular and unchallenged. Are you trying to say that Bush is going to assasinate political rivals? That's pretty far fetched to me.

5. I love the map, it really is funny. :p

[jeo4]

Originally posted by RicochetShaw
Ah, c'mon flowr, do you really mean that? I know we're mostly upset about this election, but we can't sink to what extreme Right-wingers have done. When things don't go our way, we can't just say that the system isn't working, and we're drifting from our ideals like Democracy. The election of the President, House of Representatives, and Senators was an exercise in Democracy, whether we like the outcome or not. It's the majority that had the say in this election, and that's the definition of the word: majority rule.

P.S. I don't mean to nit-pick, but being a country of war also doesn't discard the fact that a country is a democracy. The birthplace of Democracy, Athens, would make us look like a pacifist country, relatively speaking.

Excellent way to put it. Well said.

[MacReady]

jeo4,

Sorry to back out, but I don't much feel like discussing Hitler right now (I regret having mentioned him). I feel I could write up a response but I'd rather keep the thread goin on where it was headed before. I still feel like Bush is a dangerous entity, but I should point out that he's more of a "Hitler-lite" to me anyways.

Instead, this quote suits how I think and feel right now:

Originally posted by BakeTheMooCow
It was naive of those level-headed few among us to simply expect logic and common sense to prevail. It doesn't work that way. This country is still knee-deep in religious fundamentalism. People don't want truth and rationality to prevail. They want to be lied to, they want to be told that God is on their side, they want to cuddle up in their warm comfortable cocoon of homophobia, paralysing fear and a lack of respect and understanding for the rest of the world. As long as we're here wallowing in our ignorance, who gives a shaved rat's nutsack what happens to those dirty foreigners? We had our chance to get out, but we chose not to take it. America has collectively dug its own grave and it deserves what it gets. I'm almost glad.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind Herr Chimp being re-elected so much if he'd leave muslim nations the fuck alone.

I also feel what Bush has in store for the nation that picked him is kinda like somthing George Carlin once said:

The kid who eats too many marbles doesn't grow up to have kids of his own.

Except now it's consevatives with teenagers children and teenage conservatives who'll get the short end of the stick they so joyously hand picked.

[Scarface98.9]

Edwards for 2008? I doubt it now. He lost the senate seat he had to another canidate in his state, and since he's lost the presidential race, he's kinda out of the job

[JohnTheHenchman]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
It's official: America, and much of the world, totally fucked.

Would you care to back up such a bold statement?

[bmain77]

Man I hope Michigan does get absorbed into a United States of Canada. I'm all set because I already love beer, I'd be willing to become more of a hockey fan, and it won't take long getting used to add eh or doncha know to the end of each sentence. :D

I'm scared to death whats going to happen over the next 4 years. Typically a president spends his first term not rocking the boat that much so that he can get re-elected to a second term. It's in his second term that he can do more of a his own personal projects and so on because he will never have to answer to the voters again. Well I think Bush spent his first term rocking the hell out of the boat, so I'm worried what he's going to do this term. Especially when the old greedy Elephant bastards won more seats in the Senate and the house.

I seriously think we are becoming a Christian version of a Islamic Mid-Eastern country. Like them our dominant religion is getting in the way of the running of our country. Their is no rational reason for not funding stem cell research. Haven't we reached a point yet where gays can live with the same rights that everyone else has? People complain about having Gays shoved down their throat, but I'm sick and tired of having God crammed down mine. I had to listen to Curt Schilling talk about how God helped him go out their and pitch one of the most courageous performances I've ever seen i sports. Sorry Curt, I'm quite sure if there is a God he has much more iimportant things on his plate then aiding you on your quest for a win. Then I have my nephew tell me that his mom, my psychotic sister in law, is voting for Bush because he's a Christian while Kerry was not or at least wasnt a good enough one. Talk about getting my blood boiliing.

I guess America isn't the forward thinking logical people I thought it was before yesterday. Canada does sound better and better now that you mention it....eh.

[free]

^

I agree completely. As bad as I feel for Democrats living in a Republican USA, I can't imagine how homosexuals will feel. Some one said in another thread that Pres. Bush had said that, "God is on our side." That's really scary, because no matter what we do, no matter what rights we steal from our citizens, no matter what war we fight for what reason, it's ok, because "God is on our side."

Hey non-US schmoes, any one have a spare bedroom? :)

[MarkItZero]

Originally posted by bmain77
I seriously think we are becoming a Christian version of a Islamic Mid-Eastern country. Like them our dominant religion is getting in the way of the running of our country. Their is no rational reason for not funding stem cell research. Haven't we reached a point yet where gays can live with the same rights that everyone else has? People complain about having Gays shoved down their throat, but I'm sick and tired of having God crammed down mine.

I couldnt agree more Bmain. This mixing of religion into our government is really disturbing.

I mean, its been awhile since I picked up the constitution, but isnt there a line in there somewhere about seperation of church and state?

Living in Chicago I think I am very sheltered from the religous extremism that seems to be so powerful elsewhere in the country. It is definately not that way around here. Most people pretty much keep their religion to themselves and dont try to force their beliefs on you. Yet I pick up the paper and I read about schools in Nebraska not teaching evolution. Or sex-ed classes in Texas teaching only abstinence. And dont even get me started on all the states that passed those anti-gay marriage referendums. It was shocking! And it wasnt like those bills just squeeked by, they were winning by huge margins. I just dont understand it.

The hard part is that it really doesnt leave any good canidate for a fiscal conservative like myself. I cannot vote for Kerry because I disagree with his economic policies. And I cannot vote for Bush because I am sickened by his connection with the religous right....Thats why I chose Libertarian. All the good of the republicans and democrats with none of the bad stuff!

[Goosey]

Hey Cyclonus, how very open minded of you to call every person that doesn't share the same opinion as you a "narrow minded right wing red neck bigot"

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by AppleHuntr
I do agree that we should not lose hope, my friends and I were talking and if anything this makes us all want to get more involved in helping this country make progress (aka help out in the DFL groups around here). The next 4 years are not going to be fun but we have no choice but to fight harder, that or give up. Giving up sure is tempting considering half the country is satisfied with what just happened but I know that is not the smart choice.


Hey, I also already live in the United States of Canada!
no movin' for me...

Wow - that is so well-stated, Apple. Very inspiring!

I live in MPLS, just on the fringe of Jesusland, which is way too close for comfort! Speaking of the new map, I think it's hilarious how Americans make so many jokes about Canada, but as soon as the W hits the fan, we're begging to get in. LOL!

[The Postmaster General]

WTF?

I was sitting at Bull Run all day long and no one showed up. I even had my bugle and tricorn hat. Bastards!

[someguy]

I read in my newspaper today that the Canadian Immigration site had the most hits they have ever gotten the day after the election. :D

[SLAW]

drove home the other day from school listening to Kerry's concession speech. I drove up the driveway, went in the house, to my bedroom, laid on my girlfriend and cried. I liked kerry a lot. He was my guy. I knew (and I will always) think that he would've made a great president. I will always have a great affection for John kerry and I wish him all the best in whatever else he does in his life. I am by no means shocked that we lost. I had mentioned many times that I thought Bush had a great chance of being elected, I just knew we had a great chance too (which was made obvious election night).

I don't know why anyone would vote for Bush. From a strictly logical standpint, nothing has gone well in his first term. Nothing he has done or said has made me proud to be an American, and yet I am and will always be. I also don't want to hear that his victory somewhow proves that this country is truely conservative, because it doesn't. Bush won by one state and has the lowest electoral points of any incumbent to win an election since Woodrow Wilson. This country is progressing. It takes more then one election to really change things and we've got some uphill battles to fight. I know Bush in his second term will be no more open minded, intelligent, carteful, articulate than he was in hs first term. We must protect Roe V. Wade, worker's right, the environment, education, and the list goes on. The country and the world will get better. We have to believe that in order to acheive that.

Sure, I have to deal with this monkey in office for the next four years, but my life will be fine (it's a lot of other people's worry about). I've invested a lot attention, emotion, and inticipation to this election for the past year or so and it didn't come out the way a lot of us hoped. Life goes on and we have to let it be.

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by SLAW
drove home the other day from school listening to Kerry's concession speech. I drove up the driveway, went in the house, to my bedroom, laid on my girlfriend and cried. I liked kerry a lot. He was my guy. I knew (and I will always) think that he would've made a great president. I will always have a great affection for John kerry and I wish him all the best in whatever else he does in his life. I am by no means shocked that we lost. I had mentioned many times that I thought Bush had a great chance of being elected, I just knew we had a great chance too (which was made obvious election night).

I don't know why anyone would vote for Bush. From a strictly logical standpint, nothing has gone well in his first term. Nothing he has done or said has made me proud to be an American, and yet I am and will always be. I also don't want to hear that his victory somewhow proves that this country is truely conservative, because it doesn't. Bush won by one state and has the lowest electoral points of any incumbent to win an election since Woodrow Wilson. This country is progressing. It takes more then one election to really change things and we've got some uphill battles to fight. I know Bush in his second term will be no more open minded, intelligent, carteful, articulate than he was in hs first term. We must protect Roe V. Wade, worker's right, the environment, education, and the list goes on. The country and the world will get better. We have to believe that in order to acheive that.

Sure, I have to deal with this monkey in office for the next four years, but my life will be fine (it's a lot of other people's worry about). I've invested a lot attention, emotion, and inticipation to this election for the past year or so and it didn't come out the way a lot of us hoped. Life goes on and we have to let it be.

Amen. That is the best post I've ever read. In my life. Period.

[Thrizzle]

2 links i found that were interesting/amusing:

IQ of each state and who they voted for:
http://attenuation.net/files/iq.htm

Kerry won:
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
2 links i found that were interesting/amusing:

IQ of each state and who they voted for:
http://attenuation.net/files/iq.htm

Kerry won:
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

RE:

The first link is amusing, but very inaccurate. Intelligence (as opposed to wisdom) is genetic. The people of USA have mixed so much over the hundreds of years, that it would be impossible to have such great differences between different states. Many IQ tests, especially old ones, were not particularly objective and analytical.

The 2nd link, however, is very interesting. Not because it claims that Kerry won, but because it points out many flaws in the voting system. I can't believe the thing is not working better in USA.

[Jon Lyrik]

The first link is inaccurate period. If you look on the internet you'll find out the numbers are incorrect.

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by bmain77
People complain about having Gays shoved down their throat, but I'm sick and tired of having God crammed down mine.


Bombing civialians in other countries? Acceptable.

Gays getting married? UNACCEPTABLE!!! :rolleyes:

You know, the night before the election, a friend of mine (who, sadly, is a total right-wing conservative ;) ) kept going on and on about how this is a "Holy War". And I thought to myself, 'My God, what are we becoming'?!?:eek:

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by free
Some one said in another thread that Pres. Bush had said that, "God is on our side."

That's really scary, because no matter what we do, no matter what rights we steal from our citizens, no matter what war we fight for what reason, it's ok, because "God is on our side."



Which, of course, is exactly how our 'terrorist enemies' think.:(

Scarily, this is a mindset which is spreading quickly throughout the country. Maybe my conservative friend (see above post) was right.:eek:

[Elgyn]

Originally posted by SLAW


I don't know why anyone would vote for Bush.

I`ve given this a lot of thought, and talked (sometimes heatedly) with people I know who are total 'Bushies', and this is the conclusion I`ve come to:

IMO, people voted for (and support) Bush and his administration because people WANT to believe that we`re still 'doing the right thing'.
Nobody WANTS to think that we`re in the wrong for doing what we`re doing.

That, and I think the whole abortion issue is a real biggie. There are people I talked to who don`t even particularly like Bush, but they voted for him simply because Kerry was pro-choice. Like it or not, folks, this is something really big that Kerry had going against him.

[free]

Originally posted by Jon Lyrik
The first link is inaccurate period. If you look on the internet you'll find out the numbers are incorrect.

The actual numbers may not be correct, but I think the general order is.

For example, most of the southern states are toward the bottom, and here in the south, most of us our near the bottom of the education list.

In, fact, in Alabama about 3 years ago we voted on wether or not to have a lottery. Every cent of profit from that money was earmarked for education. It was defeated pretty handely, because the Bible said gambling was bad (but that doesn't include selling tickets for raffles in churches, apparently). Point being, here in Alabama, religion (Christianity) is more important than education.

[<3mekthx]

but they voted for him simply because Kerry was pro-choice


I can agree with that statement, but I don't think that's what sunk Kerry. There were many factors. I think the Michael Moores, the Soros', the hollywood elitist, the European BushBashers, the leaders of the democratic party (Kennedy, Pelosi, Gore, Dean) hurt Kerry. Calling Bush a LIAR, a WarMonger, an idiot BACKFIRED on them. Lets face it. Al Gore standing on stage screaming George Bush betrayed his country did him no good.

The first link. I think that's another "elitist" attitude that rubs many people the wrong way. The whole "if you voted for Bush, you must be uneducated" type of attitude that is floating around today. I rarely see "maybe never on this site" someone saying, "if you voted for Kerry, you're a moron and scum of the earth."

[jeo4]

Originally posted by <3mekthx
I can agree with that statement, but I don't think that's what sunk Kerry. There were many factors. I think the Michael Moores, the Soros', the hollywood elitist, the European BushBashers, the leaders of the democratic party (Kennedy, Pelosi, Gore, Dean) hurt Kerry. Calling Bush a LIAR, a WarMonger, an idiot BACKFIRED on them. Lets face it. Al Gore standing on stage screaming George Bush betrayed his country did him no good.

The first link. I think that's another "elitist" attitude that rubs many people the wrong way. The whole "if you voted for Bush, you must be uneducated" type of attitude that is floating around today. I rarely see "maybe never on this site" someone saying, "if you voted for Kerry, you're a moron and scum of the earth."

Great response. If things weren't so hostile, maybe people from both sides would be more open to one another's ideas.

[Thrizzle]

Its hard not to be hostile when your seeing your country slowly deteriorate. :(

[Twisted Sister]

Funny story -

On election night, I was at my bf's restaurant and making conversation with a waiter. Honest to God, this was an exchange we had. We were discussing gay rights.

Me: Believe it or not, there are lots of gay Republicans out there.

Waiter: I know, my cousin's a lesbian and she's totally into Bush! I mean, can you believe it?

Me: No shit? I can see a lesbian being totally into Bush.