Are we really divided as a country??? [Archive] - Movie Fan Central Discussion Forums

Criminal Rock

11-04-2004, 12:30 PM

Ok listen… I know the press, the media, your favorite politicians have made it “clear” that the U.S. is divided and we need to start doing something about it, mainly vote. But do you believe this, or do you think it’s just another stupid tactic started to pursued you to think their way? (And that goes for both sides, because both sides have done it… one more then the other, but nevertheless)

Personally, I think its stupid, and I think were at the same point we were at twenty years ago. Figuratively speaking.

darchangel

11-04-2004, 02:25 PM

i think the fact that the vote was so incredibly close proves that we are a country divided; i don't understand how you think it's a persuasion tactic, since the facts are evident from the vote count.

we need to find some way to get a middle ground on issues that are tearing the nation apart; if we're going to even attempt to fix our foreign policy and help countries abroad, we need to live up to our name first: the UNITED states of america.

Through Like Crue

~darchangel~

Moviefan1234

11-04-2004, 02:43 PM

We are a country divided. At least part of us are, myself included. I'll very openly admit I'd shoot myself in the head before voting republican. Just as there are others on the opposite side as me and feel the same way. I absolutely hate the idea of conservatism and there are those that hate the idea of liberalism. Part of us are certainly divided.

Thrizzle

11-04-2004, 02:52 PM

Just look at the voting breakdown around the country. its hard to not notice division.

Criminal Rock

11-04-2004, 03:53 PM

I just think we have different views on politics, thats it. I dont think were on the brink of civil war or anything. I can admit were divided when it comes to voting on the polls and politics, but that does not mean that as a nation we hate each other. I'm more conservative then liberal, and when I see my liberal friends at CGCC or at their houses, I dont spark an argument with them to prove them wrong, because I "hate them"... and I dont hate you guys for being liberal, I hate it when you throw it in my face, but doesnt happen very often.

Does someone at the least get what i'm saying.

Twisted Sister

11-04-2004, 04:01 PM

I think we're strikingly divided. It hit home with me as I was listening to some Bush post-election soundbytes. He was spewing his "Uniter, not a Divider" shmegma, saying how he was going to reach out, especially to those who didn't vote for him, blah blah blah. Does this guy have ANY clue as to what it would take to win us over? He had the last four years to be a "Uniter," as he claimed he would be during his LAST campaign and didn't unite shit. As a matter-of-fact, not only did his administration isolate liberal citizens, it drove a wedge into our international relationships as well. George W. Bush is as proficient a "Uniter" as he is a "Compassionate Conservative."

Divided? Yes.

jeo4

11-04-2004, 04:04 PM

There are many shades of grey in the issues, and people are bound to disagree on them. It's human nature. There aren't any easy answers to questions such as abortion, the death penalty, economic issues or the environment.

There are different ideals from both political parties and they aren't wrong, no matter what one side or the other says. We are simply polarized because it's the way we are raised. And without one side to counterbalance the other, This nation would be very lopsided in its views, making the few who aren't being listened to miserable. I know many liberals don't like the conservative ideals in politics, especially in connection to religion or idealogy. I know many conservatives who consider liberals evil traitors for their views, and vice-versa. Neither one is accurate, of course. However, to have no opposing opinions means that nobody cares about these issues. And that's never going to happen.

Four years is a relatively short time to put up with a leader. I've been alive long enough to see the last seven Presidents of the United States and I've despised all but two. But they always change.

Americans on both ends of the political spectrum are annoyed (if not outright enraged) at being told how stupid, disrespectful, evil, insane, etc. they are. It's just a load of bullshit and most people saying this are those who really don't know. It's rude coming from anyone who says it and there is no factual evidence to support it at all.

Parties change power all the time. Democrats have been in control of the White House and Congress before, as have the Republicans. We just need to do what we always have done in the past, which is put aside our differences and work together again. It's the only way the country makes positive changes.

Moviefan1234

11-04-2004, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
Does someone at the least get what i'm saying.

I understand what you mean. While I hate that some of my friends voted for Bush, I realize that it's just their political orientation and nothing more. I don't hate them as a person, just what they believe in terms of politics.

The Postmaster General

11-04-2004, 05:16 PM

We are divided by matters of the fact.

Just look at the abortion thread. I honestly don't belive a single poster in there wants to see people having abortions, but for some reason, no one has seemed to agree on that, and I've pointed it out twice.

Somewhere along the way in the history of this country, we all became smart asses, and are more worried with appearing right than doing what's right. We argue about shit that, in the end, doesn't change things; we fight for things that don't effect us; and we are usually just happier knowing we won the arguement, than knowing we actually made a change.

We are united by the fact that we all like to be right. The problem is that we all can't be right, and we'll never give up trying to prove who is more right than the other.

It drives me fucking insane and I'd blow my brains out, but I wouldn't want to give some asshole the satisfaction of saying, "That's so wrong."

FYI - Bubba would never consider suicide, he just likes to illustrate his feelings.

jeo4

11-04-2004, 05:26 PM

Bubba is pretty much right on target. Too many smart asses and not enough open minds. We all can be guilty of this once in a while.

JohnTheHenchman

11-07-2004, 03:47 AM

Originally posted by Moviefan1234
We are a country divided. At least part of us are, myself included. I'll very openly admit I'd shoot myself in the head before voting republican. Just as there are others on the opposite side as me and feel the same way. I absolutely hate the idea of conservatism and there are those that hate the idea of liberalism. Part of us are certainly divided.

How could you entirely hate all things conservative? What is it that you hate about conservatism?

I figure the only true balance is taking the best from all ideologies and applying whatever works best to the particular situation, not what is par for course within just one ideology.

free

11-07-2004, 04:45 AM

I'll very openly admit I'd shoot myself in the head before voting republican.

The only Republican now I would consider voting into office would be John McCain, moslty because he usually is very moderate on most issues. If, say, John Edwards ran against John McCain in 2008, it would be a hard choice for me, but I would probably vote Democrat.

The only thing that will appease most Democrats is an end to the Iraq war, IMO. That, and keeping your morals to yourself. You can be pro-choice, but anti-abortion, instead of anti-choice, anti-abortion.

The Postmaster General

11-07-2004, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by free
The only thing that will appease most Democrats is an end to the Iraq war, IMO. That, and keeping your morals to yourself.

So, you don't think anyone is morally oppossed to the war?

JohnTheHenchman

11-07-2004, 12:40 PM

Many people are morally opposed to the war.

Is the Democratic Party? Nope. If Kerry was elected the first thing he would have done would be to send more troops over there. I imagine a decent amount of Democrats voted to give Bush the authority to go to war.

And what you see with what Bush is doing to Fallujah, it's all "terrorists" and insurgents. We're leveling it to hell and therefore decreasing a significant amount of resistance. Bush wanted to do this all along but not at the sacrifice of his re-election.

Bush will be more agressive and I don't see the war being a big issue a year from now.

free

11-07-2004, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
So, you don't think anyone is morally oppossed to the war?

I'll try to explain myself better. What I meant was pushing legislation through based on your religion or belief system. The only reason gay marriage is even an issue is bacause some people see it as a threat to their religion. What else could it be?

George W. Bush is against embryonic stem cell research because of his religious values. IMO, a politician has no right to force his religion or belief system into law.

If Kerry was elected the first thing he would have done would be to send more troops over there.

When did he say this, because the only thing I ever heard him say was that he was gonna slowly pull troops out of Iraq.

Jim H

11-07-2004, 09:52 PM

Somewhere along the way in the history of this country, we all became smart asses, and are more worried with appearing right than doing what's right. We argue about shit that, in the end, doesn't change things; we fight for things that don't effect us; and we are usually just happier knowing we won the arguement, than knowing we actually made a change.

Very well put.

JohnTheHenchman

11-07-2004, 09:58 PM

In response to Free,

Bush is not against Stem Cell research. He does not think that federal money should pay for embryonic stem cell research, it should be left up to the private industry. One of few things I believe with the guy on.

And about Kerry, when I was looking at all of the candidates websites I came across the figure of 40,000 troops he had the intention of deploying, not to mention it is fairly well known that Kerry would keep us fighting their just about as long as Bush, he would just do things "differently"

free

11-07-2004, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by JohnTheHenchman
Bush is not against Stem Cell research.

Public Backs Stem Cell Research. (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/poll010626.html)

Bush was reported last week to be leaning against it, given opposition from some political conservatives, anti-abortion groups and the Roman Catholic Church.

Bush pushes global treaty against stem cell research. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/10/23/MNGCQ9EUL31.DTL&type=health)

The United States, Costa Rica and 59 other mostly small nations with strong Catholic or Muslim majorities contend that medical research involving cloning results in the taking of human life.

The ONLY reason to most object to this is religious, and that's wrong to force others into.

And about Kerry, when I was looking at all of the candidates websites I came across the figure of 40,000 troops he had the intention of deploying, not to mention it is fairly well known that Kerry would keep us fighting their just about as long as Bush, he would just do things "differently"

Kerry has begun arguing that he could substantially reduce the number of U.S. troops within the first six months of a Kerry administration. In an interview with National Public Radio on Friday, Kerry said: “I believe that within a year from now, we could significantly reduce American forces in Iraq, and that’s my plan.”

Source. (http://www.command-post.org/2004/2_archives/014346.html)

I would have posted a direct link to the LA Times, but you have to be a registered member to access the site.

JohnTheHenchman

11-07-2004, 10:40 PM

If it feels good to disprove someone with different beliefs than you, that's fine. It was on his website, so that's enough for me.

And I don't think my tax money should go to whatever other people want it to go to, but you're right.

free

11-07-2004, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by JohnTheHenchman
If it feels good to disprove someone with different beliefs than you, that's fine.

Your beliefs have nothing to do with it. If you feel like I am attacking you, sorry, that's not my intent. Your information was incorrect, and I was just providing informaton to the contrary.

As for Kerry's site, it is very possible that he had changed his views on it, as do most politicians.

<3mekthx

11-08-2004, 12:42 AM

The last source you gave was from August 9th. I'm pretty sure that Kerry had planned on sending more troops to Iraq, pretty sure it WAS on his site. It would make sense. Doesn't most Democrats think we need more troops over there? (aside from the ones who want to pull out right away)

free

11-08-2004, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by <3mekthx
Doesn't most Democrats think we need more troops over there? (aside from the ones who want to pull out right away)

I don't see how they couldn't need more unless we get more help from outside the US (though thanks to Bush, that's bot likely)

I don't think an immediate withdrawl is a good thing, cause you can't just destroy a nation and say, Ok we'll see ya, good luck.

<3mekthx

11-08-2004, 02:03 AM

On the issue of more troops, I agree that the argument could be made either way. An immediate withdrawl (the nader solution) would be disastrous.IMO

Tuukka

11-08-2004, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by <3mekthx
On the issue of more troops, I agree that the argument could be made either way. An immediate withdrawl (the nader solution) would be disastrous.IMO

If USA would withdraw their troops, I think we would see a civil war and in a couple of years Iraq would have turned into a fundamentalistic isman nation very hostile towards the west. Not exactly a good thing when compared to the atheistic nation Hussein had.

The Postmaster General

11-08-2004, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by free

I understand what the media means when they say "morals". It's just that I think we need to challenge how ellitist people have gotten in what we consider moral issues.

Problems such as people starving, troops dying, and the envioronment being destroyed, to me and millions of others, is a larger moral issue than whether or not Adam and Steve shack up together. Isn't it somewhat sickening that the media reports in bias over what issues are considered moral issues and which are economic, military, and environmental? Why the hell don't they classify gay marriage as a Constitutional, or civil issue? Considering this as a moral issue insulting, because it implies that if you are for, or even don't give a rat's ass about gay marriage, that you are without morals. That's bullshit, and one more reason America will find difficuties.

Twisted Sister

11-08-2004, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by <3mekthx
The last source you gave was from August 9th. I'm pretty sure that Kerry had planned on sending more troops to Iraq, pretty sure it WAS on his site. It would make sense. Doesn't most Democrats think we need more troops over there? (aside from the ones who want to pull out right away)

I don't know how many Dems think we need more troops, but there are plenty of Republicans who do, the most prominent probably being Bremer himself.

MacReady

11-08-2004, 09:46 PM

Holy fuck! Remember that map of Jesusland I showed everybody? My history teacher today spoke of how New York wanted to seperate from America. Has anybody else heard of this or this simply an unfounded rumour?

Lynn7

11-08-2004, 10:00 PM

I only have a minute to check in- my GM has been very sick. When people discuss poiltics the country is very divided and hateful but as I move thru my day there is no evidence of political polarization.Everyone just goes about their business and people say please and thankyou and how are you. Everything is cool when you don't talk politics. Political discussions are for masochists only. :)

So I don't think the country is all that divided as a people. I really think the celeb culture has stoked the fires of hatred in many cases.

bmain77

11-09-2004, 12:08 AM

I'm not sure we are as divided as the media would like us to think. And if we are I think it's almost a good thing. At least more people than ever are getting themselves informed about what is going on in world and forming their own opinion. I really do think that over the past couple of years I've scene a definited increase in this.

Yeah Bush got re-elected, but I think he's inspired a new generation of more liberal leaning voters in the years to come. So yes I do take some solace in what Michael Moore wrote in that topic about reasons not to slit our wrists.

Twisted Sister

11-09-2004, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by MacReady
Holy fuck! Remember that map of Jesusland I showed everybody? My history teacher today spoke of how New York wanted to seperate from America. Has anybody else heard of this or this simply an unfounded rumour?

It wouldn't surprise me. When I was in school in CA, my professor enlightened us to many cases throughout history in which there were small-scale secession efforts.

Did your teacher say if NY would join Canada, or if it would be an independent nation?

MacReady

11-09-2004, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
It wouldn't surprise me. When I was in school in CA, my professor enlightened us to many cases throughout history in which there were small-scale secession efforts.

Did your teacher say if NY would join Canada, or if it would be an independent nation?

I faintly remember it being about joining us.

pig farmer

11-09-2004, 09:30 PM

I didn't read any previous posts, I just have something to say and I don't want to forget while reading this thread.

I moved to a city recently and it is completely divided. The Asians stick with the asians, spanish with the spanish, etc. It's really violent in certain areas, and really no one has the same morals as anyone else.

I think this is a small example of how our country is. Too much difference among people who are unwilling to assimilate.

MacReady

11-09-2004, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by Lynn7
So I don't think the country is all that divided as a people. I really think the celeb culture has stoked the fires of hatred in many cases.

I'd say it has nothing to do with celebrities and more to do with the fact that Bush is a terrible president who've they've just been doomed to spend four more years with and really don't like the idea.