YEE HAW: Alabama Lawmaker Wants to Ban Gay Books

[free]

Not just textbooks, oh no. No more gay ANYTHING. I have decided to move. Move far, far away.

On NBC 13 news, they asked him what he would plan to do with the books already in libraries. His answer: "I guess we could dig a big hole, dump 'em in the big hole, and bury them."

FYI, the "Sexual Misconduct Act" makes "acts of oral or anal sex between adults not married to each other" illegal. So, in essence, Allen wants to ban just about EVERY book ever written.

Wait a second. If we make gay marriage illegal, we would also end up making being gay illegal.

Anyone who doesn't see the parallel between this and the attempted ban on intergration and interracial marriage just isn't paying attention.

Source. (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/8277)

Gay Book Ban Law Goal of State Lawmaker (Birmingham News) (http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1101896768316400.xml)

An Alabama lawmaker who sought to ban gay marriages now wants to ban novels with gay characters from public libraries, including university libraries. A bill by Rep. Gerald Allen, R-Cottondale, would prohibit the use of public funds for "the purchase of textbooks or library materials that recognize or promote homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle." Allen said he filed the bill to protect children from the "homosexual agenda." "Our culture, how we know it today, is under attack from every angle," Allen said in a press conference Tuesday. Allen said that if his bill passes, novels with gay protagonists and college textbooks that suggest homosexuality is natural would have to be removed from library shelves and destroyed. "I guess we dig a big hole and dump them in and bury them," he said.

A spokesman for the Montgomery-based Southern Poverty Law Center called the bill censorship. "It sounds like Nazi book burning to me," said SPLC spokesman Mark Potok.

Allen pre-filed his bill in advance of the 2005 legislative session, which begins Feb. 1.

If the bill became law, public school textbooks could not present homosexuality as a genetic trait and public libraries couldn't offer books with gay or bisexual characters. When asked about Tennessee Williams' southern classic "Cat On A Hot Tin Roof," Allen said the play probably couldn't be performed by university theater groups. Allen said no state funds should be used to pay for materials that foster homosexuality. He said that would include nonfiction books that suggest homosexuality is acceptable and fiction novels with gay characters. While that would ban books like "Heather has Two Mommies," it could also include classic and popular novels with gay characters such as "The Color Purple," "The Picture of Dorian Gray" and "Brideshead Revisted."

The bill also would ban materials that recognize or promote a lifestyle or actions prohibited by the sodomy and sexual misconduct laws of Alabama. Allen said that meant books with heterosexual couples committing those acts likely would be banned, too. His bill also would prohibit a teacher from handing out materials or bringing in a classroom speaker who suggested homosexuality was OK, he said.

Allen has sponsored legislation to make a gay marriage ban part of the Alabama Constitution, but it was not approved by the Legislature. Ken Baker, a board member of Equality Alabama, a gay rights organization, said Allen was "attempting to become the George Wallace of homosexuality."

Aside from the moral debates, the bill could be problematic for library collections, said Jaunita Owes, director of the Montgomery City-County Library, which is a few blocks from the Alabama Capitol. "Half the books in the library could end up being banned. It's all based on how one interprets the material," Owes said.

[Raoul Duke]

What the hell is wrong with some people? I mean, what the FUCK is wrong with people?! Do you really have NOTHING better to do. Fuck off with your 'homosexual' agenda! The hard core Christian right seems to be running the country at the moment. There is no gay conspiracy to turn all your little kids into gays.You idiots. Religion in the hands of complete dick wads is a scary, facist thing.

Thank God I live in Canada.

[jeo4]

Wasn't Alabama where many protests took place over integrated schools in the 1950's? I think I see a pattern here.

[bob]

No offense to anyone from Alabama, but....

Fuck Alabama in its stupid ass.

[<3mekthx]

Fuck Alabama in its stupid ass.


That will be illegal unless you are married to Alabama :p

[chilli pepper]

Alabama you say? Shit, I wouldnt expect any less from Alabama.

[gyro_44]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke
What the hell is wrong with some people? I mean, what the FUCK is wrong with people?! Do you really have NOTHING better to do. Fuck off with your 'homosexual' agenda! The hard core Christian right seems to be running the country at the moment. There is no gay conspiracy to turn all your little kids into gays.You idiots. Religion in the hands of complete dick wads is a scary, facist thing.

Thank God I live in Canada.
Amen to that (the whole thing).

I cannot believe someone can think like this. If I met this man, I would start humping his leg just to spite him.

[electriclite]

Its like at this point in time they just don't care if they're viewed as the most intolerant state in the union. They protested de-segregation and still ddn't learn, so fine, just don't be gay and in Alabama. Just have a mass exodus of gay people. We'll leave these people isolated in their own paradise of intolerance and ignorance. Ciao, have fun with yourselves.

(washes hands off of Alabama)

[Jim H]

Aren't there gay characters in the bible, making it on the list of books not allowed in schools?

[free]

Originally posted by Jim H
Aren't there gay characters in the bible, making it on the list of books not allowed in schools?

Yeah, but God kills gays and tells them they are evil and wrong, so it's okay.

Hate is just fine. Gays, well... AHHMP...[gets trampled by the hoard of gay people marching to get the children]

[<3mekthx]

I think we need to be careful not to couple this one man with all christians, republicans, or conservatives.

The hard core Christian right seems to be running the country at the moment.

What makes you come to this conclusion. The gay marriage issue? Abortion?

[bmain77]

Please canda I beg you to absorb Michigan into your wonderful progressive thinking country. We'd bring alot to the country. We have a lot of good sports teams. Quite a few musicians and actors are natives of michigan so you could add even more celebrites to your already impressive collection. The upper peninsula already adds an eh to the end of every sentence. The rest of us can learn. Please consider this!!!

Or better yet lets kick Alabama out of hte union. What do they do for us except lower the collective IQ of the United States which we can't afford much more?

I'm about to organize a bible burning protest. Yes I know these lunatic fringe don't represent the vast majority of Christians out there, but there's enough of them out there that I can't take it anymore.

[Jim H]

Originally posted by free
Yeah, but God kills gays and tells them they are evil and wrong, so it's okay.

Hate is just fine. Gays, well... AHHMP...[gets trampled by the hoard of gay people marching to get the children]

"An Alabama lawmaker who sought to ban gay marriages now wants to ban novels with gay characters from public libraries, including university libraries. "

Seriously. That would make the bible banned. I guess maybe it depends on how they define novel.

[jeo4]

Originally posted by Jim H
"An Alabama lawmaker who sought to ban gay marriages now wants to ban novels with gay characters from public libraries, including university libraries. "

Seriously. That would make the bible banned. I guess maybe it depends on how they define novel.

This is a good point Jim. And more proof that it's okay to be a Christian or a conservative...but not be stupid about it.

:D

[<3mekthx]

'"It depends on what the meaning of the word novel is."

[Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by <3mekthx
I think we need to be careful not to couple this one man with all christians, republicans, or conservatives.



What makes you come to this conclusion. The gay marriage issue? Abortion?

It just seems to be one thing after another. The gay marriage issue, this book banning of anything gay related, taking Saving Private Ryan off the air because it has violence and swearing (In WWII?, you're kidding!). I'm just getting tired about hearing how bass ackwards (tee hee) things seem to be going. The bible and God are getting more and more shoved into the grand political scheme of things, and I don't think it's right.

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by bmain77
Please canda I beg you to absorb Michigan into your wonderful progressive thinking country. We'd bring alot to the country. We have a lot of good sports teams. Quite a few musicians and actors are natives of michigan so you could add even more celebrites to your already impressive collection. The upper peninsula already adds an eh to the end of every sentence. The rest of us can learn. Please consider this!!!

Or better yet lets kick Alabama out of hte union. What do they do for us except lower the collective IQ of the United States which we can't afford much more?

I'm about to organize a bible burning protest. Yes I know these lunatic fringe don't represent the vast majority of Christians out there, but there's enough of them out there that I can't take it anymore.

Yes , please take Michagen. And don't forget to take Detroit with you. :D
Anyway this is stupid. But people like this exist all around the world. Every once in a while they get elected. Most people won't take him seriously, even in Alabama.

[Scarface98.9]

This is like the hilbilly version of a George Orwell story

[Lynn7]

As I read the article it seems that what is happening here is that this guy does not want the gay agenda PROMOTED in schools. I think the article is saying that as a result of what he is proposing some really good literature would end up being thrown out too.
For the same reason that the liberals do not want Christains promoting their religion in schools, there are Christains who object to liberals promoting their "religion" in schools (religion in the sense of what people beleive is true about life). There is a case right now that will be featured on Hannity and Colmes tonight about a Christain teacher who has been seen to promote his Christainity to his students and it got to the point where the principla began to monitor what he taught and would not let him teache the Declaration of Independence becasue of its mention of God. This story seems to be the same story in reverse.

Can teachers promote their own ideology to students? They do it all the time. Maybe if it is allowed parents should be warned ahead of time and allowed to say if their kids can take that class. Many parents would let their kids go to a class that promoted the gay agenda and many parents would let their kids go to a class that promoted a Christain agenda- as long as their are both classes available in each school. My preference si that schools beging to go back to teaching Math, Writing,Reading etc. As far as Reading goes let them teach literary techniques and not agendas of any kind.

[Raymond Babbit]

You know, I love the phrase "gay agenda." It sounds so sinister, like the gays are trying to make everyone else like them, or like they're secretly planning something evil. They don't really have an agenda, they just want the rights and freedoms they're entitled to as citizens. It's a civil rights issue, really. There is no "agenda". When you talk about the "gay agenda", it makes it sound like you think all gays are out there to convert heterosexuals over to homosexuality, which, let's face it, may be true if you're in some weird horror story, but most likely is not true in real life.

[Lynn7]

Yeah, I guess it could sound like that but that is not what I beleive. I beleive that most gay people just go about their lives. There are gay activists however, who do promote a gay agenda which is to get to the point where gay people are totally on an equal footing to heterosexuals in every way (marriage, health care benefits etc) and one way to go about achieving this agenda is to introduce books like Heather has Two Mommies into children's classrooms in order to get kids to begin to think of the gay lifestyle as one that is totally acceptable. I understand this but there are many people who beleive fervently that the gay lifestyle is against God's teachings and for them the introduction of this kind of literature is threatening to their rights of how to rasise their children with their beleif system. I'm sure the gay parents would not want their kids being taught that homosexuality is evil just like many Christian parents do not what their kids taught that it is acceptable to follow a gay lifestyle.

This is why schools should stick to the subjects at hand. There is no need to choose a curicculum to change mindsets. If a high school teacher wants to allow kids to pick their own article or book and talk about that in class then that should be OK cause it is not a teacher pushing a personl agenda. That is the way Christain stuff is legally handled- if the kid brings it up it is OK. If the teacher brings it up it is illegal. The same could be done with the gay lit. If a kid brings it up it should be OK but if a teaher does it then it's not. Its all about respecting the fact that parents are entrusting their kids to you for your education and that the way they choose to teach their kids philisophically is their right not the right of the teacher.

[SLAW]

*SIGH*

Can you possibly ever understand that you're on the wrong side of the issue? Yes nature created a gay minority. Even tough they're a minority, they deserve the same rights as anyone else. They deserve the equal benefits and all that comes with that. It's just so sad that people act as if their biggotry isn't their fault. "It's my religion, it's not me." Well, you choose to follow that religion that obviously preaches intolerance and you refuse to to look at the things going on in the world as a reasonable person. Jesus was a bleeding heart liberal and must be spinning over in his grave. Whatever, I've lost my tolerance for intolerance. Bubye

[jeo4]

And I'm quickly losing my patience for intolerance too...of religion. Opinion doesn't equal fact. And when I hear things like "Can you possibly ever understand that you're on the wrong side of the issue?" it pisses me off. It isn't that I don't want gay people to live normal lives, but I'm sick and tired of hearing how prayer in schools is BANNED, and how creationism ISN'T VALID when considering how the Earth began, but we are forced to accept what many consider a deviant lifestyle as normal. We are screwing with people's entire religious beliefs because it allegedly isn't appropriate in classrooms, yet we are forced to let gays push their personal beliefs in PUBLIC SCHOOLS. How lopsided is that?!

I'm not at all a fan of the likes of Fred Phelps or Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell, or the KKK (notice the connection between them?) but I sure as hell am not going to sit here and let opinions based on religious teachings be sidelined as "wrong" when I'm being spoon-fed garbage about gay pride and told my religion has no place in society. It's my right to follow my religion and if it's taught in the Bible, then it sure as hell isn't "biggotry" to me. It's my right to believe what I do and not be condescended to for those beliefs.

[Criminal Rock]

Yeah!! What he said!!

[BorderEevilIII]

Thats just PLAIN FUCKED UP!

:rolleyes:

Are these states like FRICKIN Alabama trying to RE-LIVE The 50's? WTF?!?

They need to teleport BACK to reality.... :confused:

[MacReady]

Originally posted by jeo4
And I'm quickly losing my patience for intolerance too...of religion. Opinion doesn't equal fact. And when I hear things like "Can you possibly ever understand that you're on the wrong side of the issue?" it pisses me off. It isn't that I don't want gay people to live normal lives, but I'm sick and tired of hearing how prayer in schools is BANNED, and how creationism ISN'T VALID when considering how the Earth began, but we are forced to accept what many consider a deviant lifestyle as normal. We are screwing with people's entire religious beliefs because it allegedly isn't appropriate in classrooms, yet we are forced to let gays push their personal beliefs in PUBLIC SCHOOLS. How lopsided is that?!


Whoa, whoa, whoa! How is being gay a "deviant lifestyle"? Do you think it's immoral or unlawful in any way?

Second, you must remember that it's in the constitution to seperate church from state, so this is only natural.

Third, you should understand that creationism is basically a theory that an invisible superman in the sky made two humans along with every other thing in existence show up out of thin air in just a week using magic powers. There isn't any basis to this claim, or scientific evidencence to suggest it's true so I don't see why evolution, something that has tons of rock solid artifacts along with the fact that it has a much more layered explanation.

Finally, you say that people have religious intolerance. Fine, but you must remember that Christianity has almost totally sweeped rthe earth, as about 2 billion people are followers. Even if you guys have detractors, what are they going to do about it? Homosexuality is still heavily loathed throuth out the world and many of them are killed, harrased or assaulted each year. I'm simply choosing the underdog (especially since I don't believe your religion and don't see a damn thing wrong with being gay).

Originally posted by Lynn7
Yeah, I guess it could sound like that but that is not what I beleive. I beleive that most gay people just go about their lives. There are gay activists however, who do promote a gay agenda which is to get to the point where gay people are totally on an equal footing to heterosexuals in every way (marriage, health care benefits etc) and one way to go about achieving this agenda is to introduce books like Heather has Two Mommies into children's classrooms in order to get kids to begin to think of the gay lifestyle as one that is totally acceptable. I understand this but there are many people who beleive fervently that the gay lifestyle is against God's teachings and for them the introduction of this kind of literature is threatening to their rights of how to rasise their children with their beleif system. I'm sure the gay parents would not want their kids being taught that homosexuality is evil just like many Christian parents do not what their kids taught that it is acceptable to follow a gay lifestyle.

1. You siad "gay activists who try to point out that gays are on equal footing to heterosexuals". Are you saying they don't deserve the same rights as we do? If not, what might make you think they aren'T are equals?

2. Again, I'll point out that there's a clause in the constitution about that kinda teaching. Schools should be completely secular humanist and since homosexuality is not a religion I don't seen any problem with it being described as something that's okay, especially in places like Alabama.

Originally posted by Lynn7
This is why schools should stick to the subjects at hand. There is no need to choose a curicculum to change mindsets. If a high school teacher wants to allow kids to pick their own article or book and talk about that in class then that should be OK cause it is not a teacher pushing a personl agenda. That is the way Christain stuff is legally handled- if the kid brings it up it is OK. If the teacher brings it up it is illegal. The same could be done with the gay lit. If a kid brings it up it should be OK but if a teaher does it then it's not. Its all about respecting the fact that parents are entrusting their kids to you for your education and that the way they choose to teach their kids philisophically is their right not the right of the teacher.

Is dosen't have to be the teachers own personal opinion. It could simply be somethnig they do in order to reduce homophobic violence in general or simply get children who might grow up in the closet and take thier own lives rather than live in a world that won't except them that what they are is totally normal and they can live a happy life.

Anyways, I'm getting real sick of that idiotic lectivius warning. I remember a long rant I found on the net that essentially showed they were many other stupid things that that same chapter of the bible spoke out against (like eating shrimp and certain kinds of shirts). I know you can believe what you want, but I truly feel many lives will be lossed because of that stupid quote and it's turning religion from merely benig a wet blanket to chains & shackels.

[jeo4]

Originally posted by MacReady
Whoa, whoa, whoa! How is being gay a "deviant lifestyle"? Do you think it's immoral or unlawful in any way?

Second, you must remember that it's in the constitution to seperate church from state, so this is only natural.

Third, you should understand that creationism is basically a theory that an invisible superman in the sky made two humans along with every other thing in existence show up out of thin air in just a week using magic powers. There isn't any basis to this claim, or scientific evidencence to suggest it's true so I don't see why evolution, something that has tons of rock solid artifacts along with the fact that it has a much more layered explanation.

Finally, you say that people have religious intolerance. Fine, but you must remember that Christianity has almost totally sweeped rthe earth, as about 2 billion people are followers. Even if you guys have detractors, what are they going to do about it? Homosexuality is still heavily loathed throuth out the world and many of them are killed, harrased or assaulted each year. I'm simply choosing the underdog (especially since I don't believe your religion and don't see a damn thing wrong with being gay).

Anyways, I'm getting real sick of that idiotic lectivius warning. I remember a long rant I found on the net that essentially showed they were many other stupid things that that same chapter of the bible spoke out against (like eating shrimp and certain kinds of shirts). I know you can believe what you want, but I truly feel many lives will be lossed because of that stupid quote and it's turning religion from merely benig a wet blanket to chains & shackels.

Again, I said this is "what many consider a deviant lifestyle". I'm not gay, so I don't relate to it myself. But I'm not going to take the so-called moral high-ground and attack gays, either. I am pointing out how hypocritical government is. It's your right to believe that being gay is alright. I believe that there are more factors to genetics playing a part in being gay and therefore I don't want to deny these human beings the normal existence they are entitled to. I've reiterated this several times and I feel like a broken record because of it.

Creationism is a biblical teaching and it is banned from schools as a result. But there is also no real concrete evidence to support evolution. No matter what scientists say, they weren't there to document it. Instead, they are putting pieces of a puzzle together. I'm not saying the theory is wrong, so let's not argue the point. But schools are very lopsided on what is taught and what isn't. Just because "God did it" isn't a plausible answer doesn't mean it didn't happen. Science and Christianity are never going to see eye to eye unless Jesus himself walks into a classroom and shows someone how it all happened.

If religious teachings are banned from school, then I don't want any of my kids being taught about the gay lifestyle, either. Separation of church and state is fine and dandy, but contradicting religious beliefs goes against "freedom of religion" that the Constitution ALSO discusses right there in the Bill of Rights. All of this is for the sake of being politically correct. I'm beginning to hate that phrase, because it applies to some more than others.

I understand what is happening to gays and I think much of it really is unjust. But my beliefs aren't going to sway. I want them to have equal rights and equal treatment the same as everyone else. And that's all, no more and no less.

By the way...in the posts preceding my last one, I wasn't at all for banning gay books. I'm still not. I don't want to deny people the opportunity to learn and be open-minded. I just don't want people trampling on my beliefs, either.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by jeo4
Again, I said this is "what many consider a deviant lifestyle". I'm not gay, so I don't relate to it myself. But I'm not going to take the so-called moral high-ground and attack gays, either. I am pointing out how hypocritical government is. It's your right to believe that being gay is alright. I believe that there are more factors to genetics playing a part in being gay and therefore I don't want to deny these human beings the normal existence they are entitled to. I've reiterated this several times and I feel like a broken record because of it.

Thanks for clearing that up but in the future you may need to say "what some people call a deviant lifestyle" or something to that effect as I mistook your phrasing as your belief on the subject.

I'm sorry to have brought your homosexual tolerance into questioning but I felt those words were a kind of 'black flag' of sorts.

Originally posted by jeo4
Creationism is a biblical teaching and it is banned from schools as a result. But there is also no real concrete evidence to support evolution. No matter what scientists say, they weren't there to document it. Instead, they are putting pieces of a puzzle together. I'm not saying the theory is wrong, so let's not argue the point. But schools are very lopsided on what is taught and what isn't. Just because "God did it" isn't a plausible answer doesn't mean it didn't happen. Science and Christianity are never going to see eye to eye unless Jesus himself walks into a classroom and shows someone how it all happened.

Actually, there's alot of fosile records that suggests that we had ancestors who looked like monkeys a little, and they had ancestors that looked like monkeys more than they did and son on and so on. It's just that public schools are a place of science and I (among others) believe that evolution is the most solid arguement on how we got here. I'm not an expert on how evolution works but there's alot of evidence for it while I can't say I've heard alot of evidence that showed the first humans were made instantaneously (how old does the bible suggest the earth is anyway?). I guess it's also a case of what's sounds more scientific. Besides, there was a time when the sword cut the other way and people could be arrested for telling children that there were others ways for humans to have some into being.

Also, aren't there more versions of creationism than just the christian one? What about the Islamic theory, or the Buddhist one?

Finally, it should be said that there are christians schools for this sort of thing. If you want to have your children learn about creatoinism, why not send them there?

Originally posted by jeo4
If religious teachings are banned from school, then I don't want any of my kids being taught about the gay lifestyle, either. Separation of church and state is fine and dandy, but contradicting religious beliefs goes against "freedom of religion" that the Constitution ALSO discusses right there in the Bill of Rights. All of this is for the sake of being politically correct. I'm beginning to hate that phrase, because it applies to some more than others.

True, but this could apply to other religions. Jewish parents could complain about the children not being thought to circumsize their children or how ham is being sold in the cafeteria to eat. How about Muslims who feel the female students should wear veils?

I feel that the school teaches alot of things that are against the bible, so I feel it's unfair to target gays.

Originally posted by jeo4
I understand what is happening to gays and I think much of it really is unjust. But my beliefs aren't going to sway. I want them to have equal rights and equal treatment the same as everyone else. And that's all, no more and no less.

I don't think I'v ever hear of a gay who wanted to be treated better than other people.

Originally posted by jeo4
By the way...in the posts preceding my last one, I wasn't at all for banning gay books. I'm still not. I don't want to deny people the opportunity to learn and be open-minded. I just don't want people trampling on my beliefs, either.

Understood. I was just mad because I feel more people would be alive today if it wasn't for that damn bible quote, but at least you aren't using it to justify hatred (which you don't strike me as having). However, if it comes to a day when gays can live in high schools with minimum harassment, won't that quote qualify as a form of descrimination? Just a thought.

P.S. sorry for the poor quality of most of my arguments in this posts. I'm a little burned out from my last post on the subject and I wanted to respond but I didn't feel all that ready.

[jeo4]

I apologize for bristling at the subject. It just rubbed me the wrong way. Creationism does span several religions and variants, which is another good reason it is banned from public schools. I haven't really wanted to shoot down the notion of Darwin's theory, because there is growing evidence to support the theory.

And yes, I could send my own children to private schools, although that route is rather expensive. It's probably the best route to take, though, I will admit.

Harassment is a broad term, as is discrimination. Both words need clear definitions both legally and in schools. Kids need to be taught respect more than anything, which I believe doesn't happen often enough due to lackadaisical parents. As for Biblical quotes, I believe that they won't interfere in schools or in public because of their limitations. They'll never have that opportunity, either. In spite of being a largely followed religion, I see Christianity shrinking in the immediate future.

I think we are seeing each other's points of view. You are making good sense, too. I know any kid of mine that disrespects other kids (gay or not) will live to regret it when I find out. (I'm speaking in the future tense, of course.)

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Lynn7
My preference si that schools beging to go back to teaching Math, Writing,Reading etc. As far as Reading goes let them teach literary techniques and not agendas of any kind.


You actually mean to say do away with music, art, physical education, crafts/shop, foriegn language/culture, creative writing, law, home ec, driving, and many other "non-basic" subjects?

Bad idea, as some of these topics are about the only opportunity most kids get to see how math, reading, and writing can be applied, most of the rest help them learn how to work with others, and others are simply just things everyone should know.

With your vision, this is about how classrooms would end up looking:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/images/connect_robots.jpg

[bmain77]

Coming from an educator's(well as soon as I'm able to land a job anyways) point of view, it's impossible to not let your beliefs color your teaching some not matter how hard you try. This is especially true for those teaching history and english. I was doing my student teaching when we invaded Iraq. No matter how hard I tried to be neutral on the topic as students kept asking questions your beliefs to show through. I suppose it didn't help that my mentor teacher's view were very different making it more obvious.

I had the same trouble when doing a unit on Animal Farm. My goal was just to teach communism as a concept without any judgements, but most of the materials I could find had a very negative slant to it.

I found that if you try too hard to be neutral it makes for very dry teaching and a class full of bored and uninterested students and we continue to produce generations of apathetic uneducated american teenagers.

Parents need to deal with this. It's understandable to want to pass on a set of morals and values in your home. I'm completely down with that. But when you send your kids to a public school you have to understand they will be exposed to other viewpoints. If you can't deal with them forming their own opinions and ideas I suggest you either home school them or send them to a private school.

And this whole pushing a gay agenda thing is idiotic. How is does a novel having a gay character push this gay agenda? Someone explain this to me. It'd be one thing if a teacher or school talked about openly about how breeders are keeping down the gay man or were openly telling kids that gay is good and christianity sucks (oh how I yearn for the day when this was acceptedable in schools). But in about 99.9% of the cases this isn't happening. Schools are simply teaching acceptance and tolerance which last time I checked wasn't a bad thing. But like I said if you don't want your kids learning this send them to Catholic school to get raped by Father O'Malley or home school them so that they grow to become people who don't no how to socialize with those different from them. (By the way if you are someone like a principal or superintendant that may hire me someday....I didn't mean a single word of this....in fact I didn't even write it. It was someone who cracked my login and password)

[<3mekthx]

I think a few of you guys feel that all the people who are against gay marriage are in the same boat as this guy from Alabama. It's just not the case.

[badberry]

Let's remember that this is the same state that just voted to keep references to segregation in their constitution....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1362581,00.html

By the way, keeping the "gay agenda" (whatever that is) out of public schools is one thing, but banning any book with gay characters borders on Nazi book burning.

[SLAW]

I've come to notice that my Jewish history teacher isn't very objective when speaking about Hitler. He obviously seems to have a political agenda against him and the fact that he shows it in the class room sickens me. Let people make up their own damm mind!

Moving on: I'm not attacking the religion that preaches intolerance, I'm calling out those who will follow that religion. It is your fault that you don't want a group of people to have the same rights as you, not your religion's. If you have to take every part of the bible seriously (which you don't, you pick and choose) and that that bleeding heart hippie liberal Jesus Christ hates fags which would go against every single thing he ever said, than that's too bad. Yes you are on the wrong side of the gay marriage issue. Gay marriage will be legal one day. It's apart of the conversation and as long as it's part of the conversation, the conversation can only move forward. We will never stop figting for it. Your only hope was too keep gay marriage and homosexuality in general "hush hush" with people afraid and ashamed to talk about it. Those days are over and equality and tolerance will move up a notch.

[jeo4]

I've come to notice that my Jewish history teacher isn't very objective when speaking about Hitler. He obviously seems to have a political agenda against him and the fact that he shows it in the class room sickens me. Let people make up their own damm mind!

Moving on: I'm not attacking the religion that preaches intolerance, I'm calling out those who will follow that religion. It is your fault that you don't want a group of people to have the same rights as you, not your religion's. If you have to take every part of the bible seriously (which you don't, you pick and choose) and that that bleeding heart hippie liberal Jesus Christ hates fags which would go against every single thing he ever said, than that's too bad. Yes you are on the wrong side of the gay marriage issue. Gay marriage will be legal one day. It's apart of the conversation and as long as it's part of the conversation, the conversation can only move forward. We will never stop figting for it. Your only hope was too keep gay marriage and homosexuality in general "hush hush" with people afraid and ashamed to talk about it. Those days are over and equality and tolerance will move up a notch.

I'M NOT WRONG BECAUSE YOU SAY I AM...OPINION DOES NOT EQUAL FACT. Have you not paid attention to one thing I've said? Obviously not, because you keep putting words into my mouth that AREN'T THERE. I'm highly offended that you assume the Bible teaches intolerance. I'm even more offended that you think I'm against gays being united and want to keep things "hush hush". That's just an ignorant statement, considering every post I've made so far.

I want gay people to have the same basic rights and privileges every other citizen in this country has. It is incorrect to assume that because the Bible says specific things about gay behavior that God hates gay people and wants us to kill them all or sweep them away. This is an interpretation that men made of the book. And rather than attempting to reach out to the gay community and make an attempt at peace, they have alienated them. Jesus isn't a "hippie" because he forgave all sinners. Not only am I not on the wrong side of the gay issue, but I'm on the side that believes they have a place in both our society and in the Heaven spoken of in the Bible.

You need to understand Biblical teachings and discern them from what people have done to distort them before simply blasting them to pieces. The God I believe in is a caring God. He's not some discriminating fool with delusions of eradicating gays and making everyone intolerant of obvious differences that God himself put here. (The notion of God being intolerant is offensive and very ignorant, IMO.)That's a vision set there by men, not God. He loves all people, not some of them. That's the God I believe in.

(Oh, and I'd say Hitler's record speaks for itself. Just because your teacher is against him doesn't make your teacher right, but it sure as hell doesn't make him wrong.)

[SLAW]

I only read the first line of what you wrote, Jeo, and all I can say is that I'm not speaking directly to you. If you're not for gay people getting married in the eyes of the state, then you don't support gay rights or equal rights. But then again, maybe you are for gays getting married, but you don't think your church should recognize it, and to that I say, perfect. Your post seemed pretty angry from what I glanced at and I don't feel like reading it now.

[jeo4]

I'm not angry right now. I think we understand each other. I agree that legally, gay couples should have the exact same rights as heterosexual couples.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by <3mekthx
I think a few of you guys feel that all the people who are against gay marriage are in the same boat as this guy from Alabama. It's just not the case.


so exactly, how would being against gay marriage be any different than wanting to ban gay books from schools? it's the same principle; in the minds of those people there is some sort of mental stigma attached to being gay that causes both of those ideas.


so i really don't understand how it's different at all.



Through Like Crue

~darchangel~

[free]

Originally posted by badberry
Let's remember that this is the same state that just voted to keep references to segregation in their constitution....


I live in Alabama and we really are getting a bad rap for this.

Our Governor Bob Riley has tried everyway in the world to raise taxes, instead of cleaning up how they spend the money we have. One of the congressmen inserted another removal from the constitution besides the segregation language.

He wanted to remove the words "state education will not be paid for by public monies." opening the door for taxation without a vote. That's why I voted no for it, because our government is one of the most corrupt in the US.

We basically just need to re-write our constitution, because I thnk we have somewhere around 200-250 amendments so far.

[Lynn7]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacReady
1. You siad "gay activists who try to point out that gays are on equal footing to heterosexuals". Are you saying they don't deserve the same rights as we do? If not, what might make you think they aren'T are equals?
__________________________________________________ _______


No, I was just saying that that is what the gay agenda is. It is not a bad thing that they want to be equal. I think they should be equally entitiled to rights but I also think that this agenda does not have a place in the schools with minor children- it has its place in the courts and the media (discussion shows etc) I have the right to teach my kids my religion and to expect that the school will not undermine my authority in the religious realm. I am going to be a teacher and I will not introduce any of my personal ideology into the class. I will bring up subjects that come up in reading and let the kids voice their own opinions. I will not interfere with that.

________________________________________________
2. Again, I'll point out that there's a clause in the constitution about that kinda teaching. Schools should be completely secular humanist and since homosexuality is not a religion I don't seen any problem with it being described as something that's okay, especially in places like Alabama.
__________________________________________________ __


Secular humanism is a religion in that it espouses a particular belief system. If the shcools are pushing this then they are infringing on my rights as a parent.


__________________________________________________ _____
Is dosen't have to be the teachers own personal opinion. It could simply be somethnig they do in order to reduce homophobic violence in general or simply get children who might grow up in the closet and take thier own lives rather than live in a world that won't except them that what they are is totally normal and they can live a happy life.
__________________________________________________ _


I beleive kids should be taught to respect every person but there is no need to go into sexual lifestyles in order to get this message across.

__________________________________________________ ____
Anyways, I'm getting real sick of that idiotic lectivius warning. I remember a long rant I found on the net that essentially showed they were many other stupid things that that same chapter of the bible spoke out against (like eating shrimp and certain kinds of shirts). I know you can believe what you want, but I truly feel many lives will be lossed because of that stupid quote and it's turning religion from merely benig a wet blanket to chains & shackels.
__________________________________________________ ____


It doesn't matter if we agree with a religious viewpoint or not, it is the right of the people to practice the religion they choose unless the practice breaks a law (human scrifice etc).

I do think gays are equal and have equal rights under the US law and I would expect nothing less. but I have to teach my kids that the lifestyle is unacceptable for Christain followers cause that is what the bible teaches. I also teach them premarital sex is unaccptable to God and many other things too. To the Christian God, sex is not the main focus of life. The main focus of the Christain God is for His followers to develop a close relationship with God through His teachings and live at a higher plane which is at the spiritual level, not the physical. If I am teaching them these things at home and then they are going to school to hear conflicting ideology from a teacher I have a problem with that. Who are they to teach my kids their own beleif system? They are simply employees of the school and nothing more than that. If the schools want to start pushing their own ideology then there needs to be school choice and a voucher system so I can send my kids to a Christian school if I choose.

[free]

I do think gays are equal and have equal rights under the US law and I would expect nothing less. but I have to teach my kids that the lifestyle is unacceptable for Christain followers cause that is what the bible teaches.

That's kind of a contradiction . How could you teach your children that gay people should be treated equally and with respect, yet say that their lifestyle is wrong?

Leviticus clearly states that people who commit homosexuality should be out to death. How is that tolerance?

Secular humanism is a religion in that it espouses a particular belief system. If the shcools are pushing this then they are infringing on my rights as a parent.

Secular humanism is: Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.

Are you proposing that the answer to every question is, cause God made/did/said it?

I also teach them premarital sex is unaccptable to God and many other things too.

And that view doesn't infringe on anyone else. Telling your kids how evil gay people are is teaching them that they should look down on others, and when kids learn to look down on one group, they can look down on anyone.

If the schools want to start pushing their own ideology then there needs to be school choice and a voucher system so I can send my kids to a Christian school if I choose.

All a voucher system does is ignore the problem. Instead of fixing public schools, lets just through money at the private schools and in a few years maybe public sholls will just disappear. ;)

All the school should do is teach kids how to scientifically solve problems and how to look objectively at their own opinions. The only problem with bringing God back into schools is, Which God do we institute? An atheist parent has just as much right to not have a religious agenda pushed on their kids as a religious parent has not to have a anti-relgious agenda pushed on their kids.

Since secular humanism basically says, "I don't care what you believe philosphically, here are the facts," the only reason I can see someone being against it is someone who doesn't care about other people and their believes, they only care about having it their way.

[Jim H]

You actually mean to say do away with music, art, physical education, crafts/shop, foriegn language/culture, creative writing, law, home ec, driving, and many other "non-basic" subjects?

I'm not sure if you were serious or not, but just in case... There was an "etc" in that post.

(The notion of God being intolerant is offensive and very ignorant, IMO.)

Well, based on what I've read in much of the bible, I consider him to be intolerant. That also isn't always bad. There is such a thing as being too tolerant, in my world view at least.

[<3mekthx]

so exactly, how would being against gay marriage be any different than wanting to ban gay books from schools? it's the same principle; in the minds of those people there is some sort of mental stigma attached to being gay that causes both of those ideas.

I guess you could look at it from that view. I used to feel pretty strongly that marriage SHOULD be between a man and woman, meaning I was against gay marriage. I'm not really sure how I feel about it at the moment, and I have NO CLUE how I would vote when it came to same sex marriage.

However, I DO KNOW how I would vote if it came to banning "gay books."

Banning 'gay marriage' and banning 'EVERYTHING GAY!' are different issue's, to me atleast.

[Lynn7]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by free
That's kind of a contradiction . How could you teach your children that gay people should be treated equally and with respect, yet say that their lifestyle is wrong?
__________________________________________________ _____


I teach them the bible which does not teach do whatever feels good to you. It teaches that there is a higher calling in life- a spiritual life. If God made men and women to fit exactly together and all of their reproductive organs are exactly complementary to each other then we feel that that was God's chosen way. Christians (most) try to follow what God wants not to make it up ourselves. Having said that, I think if people are Gay it is only a problem if they choose to become Christians where there is a conflict in ideologies. But even then, I feel that God loves all people and there are many things I do that conflicts with God's teachings- the difference is that I need to acknowledge I am going against God's will and try to correct the behavior wheras there are some Gay people who want to change the church's viewpoints instead of changing the behavior (that is the problem the Episcopals are having now where there is a big revolt oveer GAy issues (a split in the church). I think God loves Gay people just as much as He loves everyone else but in God's viewpoint we are to want to do what he wants us to do not to do what we want to do. Physical drives are to be secondary to the spiritual life.

In Christainity marriage is to be for life. If a man is married and he finds himself unbeleivably attracted to another woman and finds he has no attraction to his wife, he is called to stay with his wife and totally not see the other woman. This is an analogy for the Gay person. The teaching isn't just hard on gays it is hard on heteros too. But there is a higher calling then sex.


__________________________________________________ __
Leviticus clearly states that people who commit homosexuality should be out to death. How is that tolerance?
__________________________________________________ ______


It's not tolerance. The Old Testament laid the groundwork for the coming of Jesus. The rules were laid down severely and people soon found out they could not follow them- even at risk of death they could not fall into line.
Here's my favorite Christmas lyric that speaks of this-

"O holy night! The stars are brightly shining,
It is the night of our dear Saviour's birth.
LONG LAY THE WORLD IN SIN AND ERROR PINING
Till He appeared and the SOUL FELT ITS WORTH
A thrill of hope, the weary world rejoices,
For yonder breaks, a new and glorious morn."



God knows that we are weak and are driven by physical urges. Jesus came to show us forgiveness and compassion if we choose to follow him. He had compassion onthe people who were humble in heart not the proud and the arrogant.


__________________________________________________ ____
Secular humanism is: Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
__________________________________________________ __


That is a nice statement but put inot practice it is ugly. It seeks to crush the things that it does not understand. If a scientest goes into an experiment with a closed mind then that is not true science. Many scientests do beleive in Christianity but their testimonies would not be allowed in school becasue the humanists believe that there is only one right viewpoint and that is evolution. Why not present both viewpoints? Becasue that is not their agenda.

__________________________________________________ _____
Are you proposing that the answer to every question is, cause God made/did/said it?
__________________________________________________ ___

As a Christian I do believe that with all of my heart. I would not expect you to believe it though. I just want the schools to stay out of my belief system and I think our beleif system can also be left out of public school.


__________________________________________________ _______
And that view doesn't infringe on anyone else. Telling your kids how evil gay people are is teaching them that they should look down on others, and when kids learn to look down on one group, they can look down on anyone.
__________________________________________________ ___


I have never taught my kids that Gay people are evil and I don't know any Christians personally who would ever do that (although I am sure there are some that would but they would be sinning themselves). I teach them to be kind to everyone- everyone.


__________________________________________________ _______
All a voucher system does is ignore the problem. Instead of fixing public schools, lets just through money at the private schools and in a few years maybe public sholls will just disappear. ;)
__________________________________________________ _

Public schools are fine if they keep out of our beleif systems but if they start to push an agenda then I have to right to pull my kids out of there. There is freedom of religion in this country and indoctrination should not be allowed or stood for.

__________________________________________________ __
All the school should do is teach kids how to scientifically solve problems and how to look objectively at their own opinions. The only problem with bringing God back into schools is, Which God do we institute? An atheist parent has just as much right to not have a religious agenda pushed on their kids as a religious parent has not to have a anti-relgious agenda pushed on their kids.
__________________________________________________

I agree! Stick to the facts- keep religion out of the public schools.

__________________________________________________ _____
Since secular humanism basically says, "I don't care what you believe philosphically, here are the facts," the only reason I can see someone being against it is someone who doesn't care about other people and their believes, they only care about having it their way.
__________________________________________________ _____

Again, I don't beleive that secualr humanists beleive in facts only in their interpretation of evidence. Christains have their own interpretation of evidence. If both sides are presented I do not have a problem with that. A teacher could say this is what secularists beleive and this is what Christians believe and this is what Jews beleive and this is what Muslims beleive- whatever. Just present different viewpoints and then the kids are really getting an education right?

[Jim H]

Again, I don't beleive that secualr humanists beleive in facts only in their interpretation of evidence.

Saying that is the same as people stating Christians teach their children to hate gays. Secular humanist is a very broad catagory.