Memento Answers ***spoilers galore*******

[Bud_Fox]

If you haven't seen this movie please don't read any of this, unless you never plan on seeing it which I would highly recommend against.
For many answers all we need do is simply visit www.otnemem.com (http://www.otnemem.com) When you visit this site a newspaper article will pop up. The article is cool, but more importantly if you look long and hard at the article you'll see certain words are highlighted. Click on these words and you'll see some cool shit.
What caught my eye in particular was when you click on the word "Leonard" an article pops up titled "Area Couple Attacked in Home" This article proves that Leonard is NOT Sammy. In the article they name Leonard Shelby as having recieved serious blows to the head and Catherine Shelby as in critical condition. So here is PROOF POSITIVE from the Nolan's themselves (they set up the website and all this stuff your gonna see) that Leonard IS NOT Sammy and Leonards wife was in critical condition (and eventually died) because she was raped and beaten.

After carefully reading all this info you will see that Leonard Shelby is Leonard Shelby. You'll see parts of the police reports. You'll see that he was admitted into a psych ward where he escaped, with some notes and coaching from Teddy. You'll see the facts...any questions?

[JoBlo]

*** SPOILERS ***

Yeah, that has to be one of the BEST movie websites ever made! (not by design necessarily, but by the fact that it actually "completes" the movie for you).

Although I have to disagree with you about Leonard NOT being Sammy. I mean, the article only says that she was in "critical condition", but nothing about her dying in the hospital or anything. I mean, according to Teddy, she survived the attack (which is confirmed by the article), then came home, and then couldn't deal with Leonard's new condition. I don't know, that's what I think really happened.

Sammy DID really exist, but he didn't have a wife and was really just a guy trying to use the short-term memory loss thing in an insurance scam. Since Leonard proves to us (at the end of the movie) that he can basically "make up" things in his mind as he goes along and believe them, he probably pretended that the whole "wife/diabetes" thing was Sammy and not him.

What do you all think?

[Brock Landers]

Thank you JoBlo /ubb/wink.gif You are EXACTLY RIGHT. I agree COMPLETELY about Leonard having control over making himself believe what he wants to believe (because of his "condition"), as was shown at the very end of the film, when he disregards Teddy (the bastard!), and decides that he doesn't want to really know who killed his wife (because LEONARD really knows that LEONARD did it), because by NOT "knowing" who killed his wife, he is guaranteed a "purpose" in life AKA looking for his wife's killer. Leonard's mind, in my opinion, is made up already... he has convinced himself that he has a condition (whether or not he REALLY does), and Leonard LIKES his life the way it is. To Leonard, life is much better with his "condition", or at least, that is HIS opinion. Whether or not the director/writer meant it this way is irrelevant, because the Nolan's both say that they didn't want to get TOO specific about the reality of Leonard's medical condition, instead they wanted to show us the world through Leonard's eyes. On a side note, many mental "conditions" in the real world are just that... MENTAL conditions. They are INVENTED by the person with the so-called "condition" and that person will always have that "condition" until they decide otherwise. Physical and mental trauma are leading factors in the development of such "conditions". An example: "Shell Shock" or post-traumatic stress syndrome. The mind is not, and probably never will be full understood. Just my opinion... I could be right /ubb/wink.gif

Anyhow... great flick!

[This message has been edited by Brock Landers (edited 04-17-2001).]

[AXE]

The way I currently think about it is this: He remembers his wife is killed in the incident. So after that he begins his search for the killer. But his wife isn't dead, because he actually killed her with the injection. But he doesn't know that. So I think he sometimes knew that his wife was still alive (when he was with her) but he wanted to take revenge so he continued with the search for the killer. The only thing that doesn't make sense is why he didn't tattoo anything like: don't stick a needle in her (or anybody).

And about whether his wife was killed or not in the incident, I don't think so. I know so, because how could she lie on the bed with him when he has the tattoo already?

[Rocky]

The ending left me with the conclusion that he had killed his wife but when he realises that Ted is telling the truth he is not satisfied thus his stamp says serial killer, afterall where does his life go after his revenge.

[sico_freak]

I think Memento is a film which is best interpreted personally and for the viewer to ponder with on an individual level.
But
I still want to find something out about the phone calls - who are they from?
Who is Leonard talking to?

BTW, i agreed with everything Brock sed.
This is 10/10 viewing guys.

[Frogster]

Personally.. i don't believe that Lenny was Sammy. Everyone seems to think that Lenny conjured up this character in his mind in denial of the truth, that he supposedly killed his wife. Now if this was the case, it means that this process of denial would obviously have had to have taken place after his accident which induced his condition. If this was the case, then how could he possibly remember this fabricated tale if it was contived after the accident.

OK.. so you're thinking the tattoo (Remember Sammy Jenkis) explains this, however i feel it dosn't. How could he remember in such detail, this supposed concoction in his mind? This tattoo was a reference of something which happened before the accident.. this is why he can remember, in such crucial detail, his investigation into Sammy's case.

Lets say for a moment that Lenny does contrive this tale in denial of the truth... what happens fifteen minutes later???... He forgets the whole thing! And lets say that in order to remember this, he tattoos a little note onto his body.. the note reads "Remember Sammy Jenkis"...what happens next??.. fifteen minutes later, he forgets all that he has thought and done and notices this tattoo on his body. He reads it and thinks to himself.. "sammy jenkis.. hmm.. who's that??" Lenny cannot remember who anyone is.. throughout the entire film people have to continuously explain to him who they are (Teddy for example). You see.. Everything that he should know about this character is contrived in his frail mental condition, which means that the name means absolutley nothing to him. If he had created this character before his condition it would have been a different story.. however, we know for a fact that he did not.

The only way that he can possibly remember Sammy, is for him to have existed before his accident.

Pleez give me your thoughts.

[rain]

My theory is that Leonard's wife is still alive but that he just keeps forgeting that fact since the last thing he does remember is what he believes is her dying. The pages in the police report could easily have been altered and the missing pages taken by Teddy since he was a police officer. He probably took those pages which indicated in part that Leonard's wife survived the attack. In having Leonard believe that his wife was dead Teddy could continue to use Leonard to do his dirty work. When Leonard discovers that Teddy is using him he cannot kill Teddy right then because Leonard, by his own words, is "not a killer" with the exception of whoever he thinks raped and killed his wife. "That is different." So he uses his own weakness, his inability to create new memories, and sets himself up so that he will truly believe at a future time that Teddy is his wife's killer. That way he WILL be able to kill Teddy... and it works.

Leonard is NOT Sammy. Leonard's wife was not diabetic. He would have remembered that. I think Teddy was lying to him about Sammy. Sammy did accidently kill his wife. Leonard knows this because it all happened before the incident and he remembers his life up until that time. Teddy is just messing with Leonard's mind to try and keep him "working" for him.

[Bud_Fox]

Bottomline Boys and Girls: There are no difinitive answers. There is no Right or Wrong...only Speculation. Partial Facts, Half Truths, Amnesia, There are no Definites only Maybes. Actually I take that back, there is one Definite- this movie will make you think and ponder like none before, and maybe that's all the Nolans inteneded to suceed. Well if so, Mission Accomplished.

[rain]

Yeah it was a GREAT movie. A definate "see again." Only two other movies I had to see multiple times... Matrix and 12 Monkeys.

[SparkyB]

**** Spoilers ****

You know that his wife didn't die in the attack. If you look through the website, you can find a date of the attack in february and a date for her death (she does die) in November. All this other stuff about Lenny being in a mental hospital. I think she survived the attack and he later killed her with the insulin. I think that he is probably the one that has this condition pyscologially which explains how he can change his memories after he kills his wife even though he had the condition before that.

The premise is that all his long term memories are good and newer stuff is bad, but I think a theme of the movie is that there is no absolute truth. Lenny himself says that memory isn't reliable yet he relies chiefly on memories from before. That is part of his flaw. The other part is that he takes the facts that he has written down as true and immutable. But they are just conclusions drawn from 15 min experiences. In the real world we revaluate our previous experience with the new ones to change previous conclusions, which he can't do.

I believe some of what Teddy says is true, how much isn't clear, certainly not all of it. But once Lenny rights, "Dont trust his lies" he can't ever believe anything from him again.

I think along the lines of the theme I stated above, we aren't supposed to be able to completely reconstruct the truth. So it doesn't matter how much of Sammy is really Lenny and how much was true, or who Teddy really is, or if the person he kill in the dirty picture is the real John G (assuming there is one) or just some other drug dealer or something.

[Devon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...with some notes and coaching from Teddy</font>

Actually, the notes are from Lenny himself. Not only does the original short story make this clear, but also there's a notation on the Web site by a psychiatrist that Lenny is "coaching himself" through his condition by writing to himself in second person.

Somewhere in this thread (I think), someone says that the Web site gives the date of Mrs. Shelby's death. I've been looking all over for it--can someone give me the path to the clipping that states this?

Also, I think something is being overlooked... Teddy told Lenny that he was Sammy, and that it was HIS wife that had diabetes, and that he killed her with an injection. Problem with this is two-fold... First, Lenny would have remembered if his wife was a diabetic, because that memory was stored in long-term, so this bit of info shouldn't have come as a surprise to him.

Secondly, Mrs. Jankins allowed Sammy to kill her. Are we to believe that Mrs. Shelby did the same thing? Why? Especially if she died only a few months after the attack, as someone has suggested. Would that really be enough time for someone to a) heal from a brutal attack, and b) become so despairing of her husband's condition that she's willing to let him kill her?

And if Mrs. Shelby didn't allow it--if Leonard injected her by force--what was his motive? Why did he kill his wife, when everything we see of his pre-assault life was happy and apparently well-adjusted?

[Frogster]

In response, I refer y'all to my earlier post.

[Devon]

Frogger, I agree with you. /ubb/smile.gif

I think Sammy and Lenny were two different people, and that Lenny's wife died from injuries sustained in the attack. She may or may not have died that very night, but I don't believe that Lenny killed her.

If we can assume that the Web site info is truthful, and that Mrs. Shelby was "unresponsive" on the scene, we can see that Teddy was lying when he said she survived. That is, we see a shot of Mrs. Shelby opening her eyes under the shower curtain. An "unresponsive" patient would not have done this. In fact, it's likely that a paramedic would have pried her eyelids open and found no retinal response to light--that's typical of an "unresponsive" patient.

This is all just to say that Teddy was lying profusely at the end of the movie, and Lenny was right not to believe him.

[Frogster]

I totally agree. It seems that everyone just assumes that Teddy is a honest and truthful guy.. but this is a guy who is clearly manipulating Lenny. I mean he's getting the guy to kill people for him! Telling him a few lies is certainly part of his devious escapade. This is why Lenny wrote on his photo "don't believe his lies". It is because he knows that Teddy is manipulating. He then decides to sort of get revenge for his manipulation and lies by killing him.

Whether or not Lenny actually did kill the real John G cannot be proven and remains a mystery to me. The photo which Teddy shows with Lenny shirtless after supposedly killing John G could have been another drug dealer.

[Devon]

Does anyone know how Lenny originally came by the clue that the man he was searching for was a John (or James) G.?

[Irene Manor]

Frogster hit a point -

The whole concept of Sammy and Lenny being the same person came from Teddy. What do we know about Teddy? "Don't believe his lies."

I think Teddy was a crooked cop, and Lenny was just a victim of circumstance.

Man, what happened to the days when movies were easy to follow? You know, like PULP FICTION and JACOB'S LADDER.

[chandler_bing905]

**SPOLIERS**


alright, i jsut watched the movie for like te 4th time and the tattoo on his chest at the end of the movie where it flashes him and his wife in bed says I've Done IT. And it's on his heart right where he said he would put a special tattoo when he killed John G. at first i thought it meant that his wife was still alive after he had killed the real john G, but that's doesn't work because he doesn't have the tattoo at all in the movie other than that part. so either he is jsut imagining it like he says believeing the world is still going on around him, or a it's a glimps of the future. the first of which is more believeable.

[Frogster]

I think that it was definately part of his thought process and nothing else but that. You might have noticed that any thought which Lenny had throughout the film, used a distinctive blueish tint to the image. At that point, he was imagining what it would be like to be reunited with his wife, with the peace of mind that he had avenged her death (which explains the infamous tattoo). It's as simple as that.. i think.

[Devon]

Again, Frogster, I think you're right. I saw the movie again today, paying particular attention to that shot. I think it was just a mental image Lenny had that represented closure.

[This message has been edited by Devon (edited 05-31-2001).]

[Cosine]

I just want to throw a couple things out here. First off did no one notice that when he first tries to tear up the polaroid he can't and burns it instead, then later on in the movie he see's Natalie trying to tear up a polaroid and tells her she has to burn it, this memory DID get through, this lends credence to the idea that he can remember some things in some ways.

Also, I believe there may have been a continuity error in the movie, hard to tell with this sorta film but did anyone notice that Natalie isn't bruised or cut the morning after they sleep together yet she is bruised before and after this scene???

[Devon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">First off did no one notice that when he first tries to tear up the polaroid he can't and burns it instead, then later on in the movie he see's Natalie trying to tear up a polaroid and tells her she has to burn it</font>

I interpreted that as just a burst of emotion. He wanted to destroy the Polaroid immediately, so he tried to tear it, probably against his instincts. I think we've all knowingly done things in a flash of emotion that we knew would be futile.


I think the movie somewhat simplifies the actual anterograde memory loss condition. I have a friend who knew someone with it. Apparently it is possible to learn something if repeated often enough. For example, my friend's friend knew that he had a condition. He also learned a system for coping which involved color-coded notebooks, and he was able to remember which color went with which subject.

This is not to say that the film has no slip-ups... The most glaring one for me was when Lenny picked up the photograph of Natalie and Jimmy, hours after Natalie showed it to him, then wrote "She will help you out of pity." Seems to me by then he would have forgotten the story and wouldn't have known who Jimmy was.

I perceived this as a mistake, rather than the filmmaker trying to tell us that Lenny remembered more than he let on.



[This message has been edited by Devon (edited 06-06-2001).]

[NUFAN]

I have seen the movie several times and there is one thing that I think will solve the mystery of whether Leonard and Sammy are the same person.
In my first viewing of the movie I noticed that, in Leonard's narrative flashbacks of Sammy sitting in the mental institution, as people walk by, an orderly walks between Sammy and the camera, blocking the audience's view of Sammy momentarily. When our view is restored, Lenny, not Sammy is sitting in the chair in the mental institute. It is a quick flash, but I have watched for this on subsequent viewings of the movie, and have seen this every time. The only answer that seems to be that Leonard is Sammy.

[Devon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">in Leonard's narrative flashbacks of Sammy sitting in the mental institution, as people walk by, an orderly walks between Sammy and the camera, blocking the audience's view of Sammy momentarily. When our view is restored, Lenny, not Sammy is sitting in the chair in the mental institute. It is a quick flash, but I have watched for this on subsequent viewings of the movie, and have seen this every time. The only answer that seems to be that Leonard is Sammy. </font>

I don't think that's the only answer... /ubb/smile.gif

We know that this film takes some liberties with reality in the narrativity. For example, we see Lenny pinching his wife on the thigh AND we see him injecting her with insulin. What's the reality? It's a very particular moment in time--it has to be one event or the other. Therefore, one of the images is the figment of a character's imagination.

Given such precedence, I can't interpret every single frame of the movie as literal. I think the flash of Lenny's face was a narrative technique to indicate how much Lenny was identifying with Sammy as he related his story.

Also figurative or fantastical is the shot of Lenny lying in bed with his wife, with "I did it" tattooed on his chest. There's just no way to logically interpret that as an actual event within the reality of the story. A flash of "wishful thinking" makes much more sense based on everything leading up to it, just as the interchangeability of Lenny and Sammy in that one short scene makes much more sense to interpret as, "I really understand now what this guy was going through."

[confused1]

More about Sammy and Lenny. I think - my memory may be distorted /ubb/smile.gif - that when Lenny describes Sammy he says Sammy didn't even know his wife was dead, but Lenny cetainly knew HIS wife was dead. So except for the "condition" I don't think Sammy and Lenny were much related, but then, what is the significance of "remember(ing) Sammy Jenkins" in avenging his wife's death?

[Tuukka]

This film finally came to Finland last week and I saw it today. All I can say is that it's a serious mindfuck. 8/10.

Interesting theories you have.

[STARKE]

Co-star Joe Pantaliano also plays a character open to interpretation. He may be a cop helping Leonard find the real killer, or he may be involved himself, manipulating Leonard away from the truth.

"Chris Nolan told me that last scene that I have with Guy where I tell him everything, which is the first scene, is the truth and I think it's the truth because he doesn't like the truth." Pantaliano suggested

Excuse me if someone has already shown that, I didn't see it

[shelmont]

Hi, this may sound really off base but did anyone else think there might be an "Atlas Shrugged" tie in? The book his wife was reading had no cover and was about the right size and the main question of the book is "Who is John Gault"? (i.e. John G) Throughout the book you are left to wonder if he is real or just a legend. Until the end when you discover he is real. Not really sure what it would mean but I thought I'd throw it out there. Thanks, Its been great reading everyone's thoughts!

[STARKE]

That'd be really cool. I guess we can pause it when it comes out on dvd and try and figure it out.

[bgblue09]

*****POSSIBLE SPOILERS*****

I saw MEMENTO for the first time the other night, and was up for 2 hours laying in bed piecing it together. I've scoured the website, and read through the short story a few times. I think much of this discussion is on the right track. However, for the sake of argument, for the sake of seeing if there's any way to DISprove this notion, my brother, who is a forensics expert, and I have tried to piece together a realistic chain of events leading up to the film:

I have a hard time letting the image of a tattooed Leonard laying with his wife fall to the wayside of "wishful thinking." The movie never allowed itself to be that sentimental. In fact, if anything, the film was arguably cold and unemotional. Instead, I search for a plausible reality into which that scene could fit.

Leonard's wife, Catherine, survived the attack. It's actually pretty common knowledge that she did. She died, however, in November of 1997. In the way her death is mentioned in Leonard's psychiatric file (as "deceased, 11/97", and in reference to her "demise"), we can conjecture that her death was considered accidental. If it was murder, one would think they would refer to it as such.

Let's think about what might have happened between the attack (Feb. 1997) and Catherine's "accidental" death (Nov. 1997). That's nine months. If we assume that Catherine recovered from the rape and returned home, then we can knock off a conservative month for the recovery. That's still eight months. A lot can happen in eight months. Including finding Catherine's rapist.

Where did Leonard get the name John/James G.? It's never explained in the movie or the website. In fact, it's almost blatantly and uncomfortably absent. Seems as if it's purposefully left up to us to decide. Could the name have come from Catherine? Could she have helped Leonard discover this piece of evidence? Catherine lived for nine months with the knowledge she was sexually assaulted. It seems inconceivable that she would not be just as adamant about finding her rapist. Agreed?

I'd like to play the odd man out then, and put up the theory that Leonard found and killed John G. before Catherine ever actually died. Then, to remind himself of his conquest, had I'VE DONE IT tattooed on his chest.

However, as time went on, Leonard could not remember what he'd "DONE," and continued to search, at the protests of Catherine. Catherine could never come to terms with Leonard's disease, and the weight of knowledge that her husband killed a man, and in November of 1997, tested him with an overdose of insulin injections. She died, and he could not remember how it had happened.

Following, Leonard spent nearly 8 months in a psychiatric ward (January 1998 - September 1998). Leonard could not remember any of the experiences between the attack and his wife's death. However, this was not entirely as a result of the accident, but due in part to an unconscious desire to forget. Leonard's illness is as much mental as it is physical. We become aware of this through Leonard's ability to "condition" himself to his illness and situation. In the short story "Memento Mori," a bell is used as an inside joke, both in reference to the bell used by people buried alive, and I think as a nod to Pavlov's classical conditioning experiments. Leonard conditioned himself to place his wife's diabetes and her death into the context of an anecdote about a middle-aged man, his wife, and an insurance claim. Why else would he tell it to everyone he knows? We all know the story about the person who lies so often they even begin to believe their own lies.

It is decided by Leonard's doctors that it best to pull as much emphasis as possible away from the death of Leonard's wife. They find an almost feverish fixation with her death residing in Leonard, and so the tattoos are removed, and all references to Catherine are forbidden by the hospital staff in an attempt to bring Leonard out of his compulsion.

Leonard, however, is keeping a secret journl to remind himself of what has happened. He's far from forgotten his wife's death, but what he remembers has been tragically warped. He writes to himself in 2nd person, as if coaching himself. This would suggest that aside from being an anterograde amnesiatic, Leonard is also schizophrenic, and possibly suffering from OCD. It is very common that such dramatic physical trauma to the brain results in not one, but several mild to severe neurological disorders. Even if the physical injuries did not induce further illnesses, the emotional and psychological trauma could have resulted in subsequent disorders.

When, in September of 1998, Leonard escaped from the hospital, it had been a year and a half since his wife's rape. Who know's exactly how long it was between his escape and killing Jimmy Grantz. We are given clues to the fact that a significant amount of time must've passed. At the start of the chain of events that unfold for us, Leonard is wearing ratty clothes and driving a pick-up truck. Where did he acquire these items? From a "John G." he had killed? He couldn't hold a job in his condition to purchase the items, so we might theorize that after escaping, he had tracked down at least one John G. and taken such items. As well, there are already countless tattoos adorning his body prior to killing Jimmy Grantz. How much time has really passed?

Polariods appear on the Flash website, but not the HTML version which show strange men named Marko, Noam, David, and Miguel, amongst polariods of Dodd and Teddy. Who are these men? Did they help Leonard at some point in his search? They do not appear in the movie. Thus the polaroids must have been taken prior to the events in the movie. I have to come to the conclusion that the movie takes place in present time, 2000 or 2001 (does anyone know this for certain?), and so nearly 4 1/2 years have passed since the initial attack.

Well, feel free to rip this theory to shreds. I'm not saying that even I completely believe it. I do, however, think that so much of the "facts" is left in the audiences hands, that we're hard-pressed to say that anything occurring between Feb. 1997 and the events in the movie is impossible.

Later!

-Brent

P.S. Those who say they've checked out the website, look a little harder. There's differences between the HTML and the Flash version. The Flash website does not list a date for Catherine's death, but the same report in the HTML site states 11/97.

The polaroids are very different between sites.

Anyone have any answers for the odd "Questions" section on the Flash site? "Who did I kill?" I've typed in every name I can think of, and nothing happens.

Anyone discovered any other differences?

[boogerinmynose394]

No question that lenny lost his short-term memory during attack and hence could not remember accidentally killing his wife with insulin. there are a lot of questions though...how come he ALWAYS REMEMBERS THAT HE HAS THIS CONDITION? AND, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE "I'VE DONE IT" TATTOO SUBSEQUENTLY- did someone remove it? If he experienced short-term memory loss before the scene with him and his wife when we saw the "i've done it" tatoo, how could he remember it? why did he tatoo "remember sammy jankins" on his hand - to remind him of his condition?

[The Heart Collector]

Has anyone ever pondered over the fact that the movie's structure and confusing ending was made simply so that anyone could have their own idea of what it all meant?


Perhaps it's like the half-full, half-empty glass thing. If you think Lenny is indeed Lenny, you're optimistic and believe in yourself. If you think he was Sammy, you view the world in a negative way.

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Heart Collector:
Has anyone ever pondered over the fact that the movie's structure and confusing ending was made simply so that anyone could have their own idea of what it all meant?


Perhaps it's like the half-full, half-empty glass thing. If you think Lenny is indeed Lenny, you're optimistic and believe in yourself. If you think he was Sammy, you view the world in a negative way.</font>

I dont think so collector....I believe (without any doubt) that Lenny was telling the truth and that Leonard was Sammy. The second time around, everything is so clear and you could see that throughout the movie Teddy was telling the truth, and that Leonard chose to believe his own reality (based on the evidence he had from his pictures and tattooes). If Teddy was not telling the truth...then the movie would be a little flawed (because he was right most of the time).

[Toby]

This is a masterpiece.Maybe you just had your first real movie experience.Don't worry.The more you think about it,the more confusing it gets.Still.....nothing..You go to the message board to discuss it with other movie buffs.You're left with even more questions.You visit the website hoping to find the truth. This film haunts you for a couple of days.You are left with lots of confusion and an uneasy feeling of dissattisfaction.There is no easy way out.There are no answers.They want explanations and start digging way too deep.People are not used to that.Instead of giving answers and provide a happy ending, this one raises questions and leaves the audience with something to think about.Wich is great. This movie has everybody puzzled.
Start reading here.&lt;----

[The Heart Collector]

YOU believe. Not me. That's the beauty of the movie. You don't have to be right, yet it makes sense (unlike a recent movie involving talking hairy animals).

[rgse]

OK, here's my take on the whole thing.
IMPORTANT points to remember:
1- Lenny talks about mental vs. psychological condition. If it's psychological, then you can be CONIDITIONED to remember some things into long-term memory. This is what Lenny has, psychological condition, so he is able to be conditioned to remember things for his long term memory. Points in fact - things he REMEMBERS after his accident:

- he remembers that he has a condition
- he remembers to always bring his camera
- he remembers to always check his pictures
- he remembers to always take pictures
- he remembers to always write stuff down

2- Lenny says that memory IS UNVRELIABLE, it's facts that never change. So when Lenny says his wife doesn't have diabetes, his memory can be wrong. He has conditioned himself to believe his wife didn't have diabetes but that Sammy's wife did. Whether Sammy really existed doesnt' matter, what matters is that Lenny put his own guilt over killing his wife onto Sammy.

3- Teddy wasn't lying to Lenny at the end of the movie. Think about it. Why would he lie? Lenny would just forget about it anyway. Also, do you really think that at that split second that Teddy conjured up these detailed lies?

4- What's the purpose of the Remember Sammy Jankis tattoo? The purpose is to condition himself that there is a Sammy and that Sammy killed his wife, not Lenny killing his own wife. Think about it, why bother with the tattoo if it wasn't for conditioning. Do you think the tattoo is there just so Lenny would have something to talk about?

5- At the end he is in bed with a woman and he has the I Did It tattoo. That happens after he kills Teddy. He keeps the picture of the dead Teddy and his other picture says that Teddy is the one. So now Lenny knows he got the real man, even though Teddy wasn't really the one.

There was 1 problem though. Lenny always takes pictures of people that he's just met, which of course means conditioning, right? Well, if Lenny has been working with Teddy for a year, how come Lenny didn't have a picture of Teddy before? My answer is that he did but Teddy kept taking pictures away just like he kept the picture of Lenny after killing the real John G. Now, if that's true, how come Teddy didn't take the picture away that said Teddy was the one? I guess either he got sloppy or he just didn't have the opportunity.

[The Heart Collector]

Here's my points to take in account:


No one is as right as the other one.

[rgse]

Umm... ok.

[Jimmer]

Have just seen the film. Am struggling to work things out. Does anybody have any ideas as to why some of the film is in black and white and the rest in colour? Had some theories about perhaps colour was real memories, B+W was Lennys interpretation of events through his notes. Not true though. Thought the clincher would be the pinch/insulin jab scenes between Lenny and wife - Unfortunately both were in colour.

Also, in the 'Done it' tattoo scene, he has the 'Jon G Killed and raped your wife' tattoo but I didn't notice any others ie 'Find him, kill him' etc (big one across his chest). Any significance in that, or were the tattoos there and I just missed them?

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jimmer:
Have just seen the film. Am struggling to work things out. Does anybody have any ideas as to why some of the film is in black and white and the rest in colour? Had some theories about perhaps colour was real memories, B+W was Lennys interpretation of events through his notes. Not true though. Thought the clincher would be the pinch/insulin jab scenes between Lenny and wife - Unfortunately both were in colour.
</font>

I just saw the movie for my fourth time yesterday...great stuff that only gets better.

Anyways, the black and white scenes are scenes that take place before the killing of Jimmy Grantz (chronologically, its in the very beginning; in the movie, its in the end). The color scenes represent the movie going backwards from the death of teddy. The point was that we would feel what it was like to be in Leonard's shoes.. The genius in all of that is that they are put together to bring a clear message to a complex story...and it does it backwards!

As for the tattoo you mentioned ("Ive Done It") I still have to figure it out. Im thinking that Leonard was able to somehow retain teddy's message in the end of the movie. Its not clear to me at all...

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THAT FINAL TATTOO MEANS??

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Heart Collector:
Here's my points to take in account:


No one is as right as the other one.</font>

collector...i disagree with you because ive seen the movie a few times. After the first viewing, i was confused also. But after seeing the movie 4 times, ive noticed that there were definite themes to the movie (evidenced by chronology, plot events, and dialogue).

A theme that was explored is the ability to rely on memory. They talk about it at least three separate times...he firmly believed that decisions could be made decisively by fact alone.

The twists in plot events clearly showed that Teddy was telling the truth. If he was lying to Leonard about Natalie, the drugs, and his wife (which was confirmed in the memento website as well as in the quick cut with Leonard and the insulin), then why did all Teddy's prophecies come true? Perhaps Teddy was a corrupt police officer, but I think that he was someone who was a sympathetic ally to Leonard's cause. (However, that is a point that is up to debate). As was shown in the end of the movie, Leonard forced himself to believe Teddy was John G because he believed he was used by Teddy to kill Jimmy Grantz.

Anyways, because Teddy was telling the truth about everything else, we have good reason to believe him. But because Leonard has no reason to believe him, he doesnt.

However, there are points that are open to debate. What is the extent of Leonard's disease? How much of Sammy Jenkins is actually Leonard Shelby? How much of Leonard Shelby is Sammy Jenkins? Why is Teddy helping him? What does that goddamn "Ive Done It" tattoo mean? The questions are always there...and arguing them are half the fun...anyone have answers to any of those?



[This message has been edited by psudoazn (edited 08-16-2001).]

[Murphyspatsfan]

Re: RGSE
Your point 4: Q: What's the purpose of the Sammy Jankis tatoo? A: Displacement. Think harder...why have a tatoo of a long term memory. It is a memory he can already recall. Other than the memory loss parallel, there is no reason to repeat that entire story - especially the overdose (which no one should truly know the circumstances of - wife is dead, "Sammy" has short-term memory loss). Displacement.

You are close. Shelmont (above) is even closer. Ask yourself why should Leonard need to re-enact the night of assault with the escort - another memory he should easily remember.

[bluebrained]

All I have to say about this movie is that I am buying it. And that is saying alot. I never buy movies. This is truely a great film.

IMO
I belive that Lenny and Sammy are two separate individuals. That Lenny's wife is dead. That Teddy is screwing Lenny over to make "easy" money. Lenny killed Teddy b/c he(Lenny) knoew Teddy was screwing him. I do not belive that Lenny killed his wife.

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bluebrained:
All I have to say about this movie is that I am buying it. And that is saying alot. I never buy movies. This is truely a great film.

IMO
I belive that Lenny and Sammy are two separate individuals. That Lenny's wife is dead. That Teddy is screwing Lenny over to make "easy" money. Lenny killed Teddy b/c he(Lenny) knoew Teddy was screwing him. I do not belive that Lenny killed his wife.</font>

Sounds interesting, but how did you get all that?

[rgse]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Murphyspatsfan:
Re: RGSE
Your point 4: Q: What's the purpose of the Sammy Jankis tatoo? A: Displacement. Think harder...why have a tatoo of a long term memory. It is a memory he can already recall. Other than the memory loss parallel, there is no reason to repeat that entire story - especially the overdose (which no one should truly know the circumstances of - wife is dead, "Sammy" has short-term memory loss). Displacement.
</font>

Yeah, but it is still conditioning. Also, remember in the b&w scenes where Lenny is telling the whole story about Sammy? Guess who's the caller? It's Teddy. Guess why he's calling? To get Lenny to tell the Sammy story and to reinforce the conditioning.

[nicky]

First off, Memento ruled. but getting down to business.

There are several arguements that make sense.
1) If you believe Teddy, Lenny is Sammy Jankis, and killed his wife and is "conditioning" himself to forget killing his wife. To help prove this, 3 lines from the movie: after teddy goes on his speech, lenny gets in the car and after writing down the lkicense plate tattoo thing he says 1) "Can i make myself forget what you told me?
2)" Can i make myself forget what you made me do?
3) Do I lie to make myself happ? In your case, Teddy, yes, I will. (then writes down license number) To also support this argument, there is the fact that Lenny remembers from about 10 minutes before that teddy is a john g and uses the "dont believe his lies" note to set himself up to kill teddy in the futer for making him remember how he killed his wife.

Anothe theory is that Lenny uses the Sammy Jankis tattoo to remember about his own condition.

2 key points that relate to both arguements: in the mental hospital, lenny is sitting in the chair instead of Sammy for a splitsecond, fight club style. Why would this be included if lenny wasn't really sammy jankis? but then again, why would lenny fake his condition in the first place and kill his wife (this question directed at those who say "how does lenny remember he has the codition if he cant make new memories? he must be faking, conditioning ihmself to believe he has the condition)

and last, when lenny is in bed with the tattoo, the woman in bed IS THE SAME woman who played his wife. his tattoo on his chest says "i've done it" Now, what is this scene? is it lenny ideal fantasy world? maybe. is it after lenny kills teddy? i dont think so. but in the bloody picture teddy supposedly rook after lenny killed the first john g. lenny is pointing to that area on his chest to imply "i've done it", the tattoo he will get there. also to support this, when natalie says "what about there?" lenny responds "for when i get the guy."

there are so many theories, yet no way to confirm anything. however, this is what a good movie should do: make you think.

PS. what is the significance of the scene where natalie calls lenny's ife a whore and tells lenny shes gonna use him? amybe lenny was right when he suspected someone was trying to get him to kill the wrong guy...

[Murphyspatsfan]

RGSE:

"Yeah, but it is still conditioning"

I agree. I was not disputing that (and ultimately I think we are close to being on the same page). I am disputing his purpose for conditioning himself.

"The purpose is to condition himself that there is a Sammy and that Sammy killed his wife, not Lenny killing his own wife."

Again, why repeat a story he has full capability to remember? Jankis is part of Leonard's long-term memory. Leonard is conditioning himself to forget his own wife's overdose. By constantly repeating the story, he displaces his past onto that of Sammy Jankis. And in a sense it is almost a confessional. "Did I tell you about Sammy Jankis? He loved his wife, he never meant to kill her. You believe me right?"

Beyond that, who, other than Sammy & his wife, could truly have any intimate knowledge of the "test" and subsequent overdose? How could Leonard know that?

"Guess who's the caller? It's Teddy. Guess why he's calling? To get Lenny to tell the Sammy story and to reinforce the conditioning."

I don't quite understand your point here. Leonard instigates the Jankis tale. Teddy is sick of hearing it. Leonard offers it up to anyone who'll listen

Memento's theme is about self-deceit. Leonard is a faker. No, not in the sense that his condition isn't real; but that his reality is a lie. He strives to live in a world that does NOT disappear when he closes his eyes. But his disability prohibits him from fully comprehending the objective reality he seeks. Conditioning is the key to unlocking the door to his amnestic prison. Leonard creates a world that gives him a purpose and a release from his own guilt. He conditions himself, deceives himself, through repeating the Jankis story, enacting the night of the assault, wearing the clothes of his victim, and his tattoos.

I've done it

Certainly there are many interpretations available. But I see it as a triumphant image of his own capability. After hearing Teddy's diatribe, his revelation (short-lived) is that he can (and has) achieve(d) a sense of purpose in spite of his impairment. I've done it, I've given my life meaning. It's a vision of pride.



[This message has been edited by Murphyspatsfan (edited 08-17-2001).]

[rgse]

I believe there is no Sammy Jankins. He has conditioned himself to believe there is one. Think about this, Lenny could tell in great detail how Sammy killed his wife. How could Lenny know that much detail? The wife wouldn't have been able to tell him, and of course Sammy wouldn't have been able to either. I'm guessing that Lenny actually did remember it after his accident since it was such a deeply emotional event. I don't believe that Lenny's memory completely clears every 15 minutes, some things do get remembered.

Besides, that would be a very rare occurrence for 2 people with the same disease to meet, don't you think?

So he isn't displacing it on a real person, he is displacing it on a person he made up.

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rgse:
I believe there is no Sammy Jankins. He has conditioned himself to believe there is one...he is displacing it on a person he made up.</font>

I dont agree with you. I believe that Lenny was telling the truth. Therefore, I believe it when he said that there was a Sammy Jankins that was a fraud...that had no wife. Yes, I believe that Leonard superimposed his memories with those of Sammy Jankis, but i guess that was his way of recalling information.

[rgse]

So you should also think that Teddy was lying, right? Teddy just all of a sudden came up with a convoluted lie right on the spot? Remember, at that time Lenny was pointing a gun at Teddy. Why would Teddy make up a lie that would just anger Lenny more? If there really was a Sammy Jankins, what is the purpose of Teddy saying that there wasn't one? The answer is none whatsoever. Teddy was telling the truth.

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rgse:
So you should also think that Teddy was lying, right? Teddy was telling the truth.</font>

dude...with all due respect, I dont understand a word you said. I did believe that Teddy was telling the truth. If he was lying, nothing in the movie could be accepted as fact. For that reason, I believe firmly that Teddy was telling the truth throughout the movie. Next time you see the movie, check that out for yourself....it does check out.

[rgse]

Uh, yeah...right. I already said that Teddy was telling the truth. Don't you remember that Teddy said that Lenny IS Sammy Janksins? If you honestly believe that Teddy is telling the truth, then there is NO Sammy Jankins because Lenny made him up.

A further point, why have the Sammy Jankins tattoo anyway? If Sammy were real and Lenny's account of Sammy is real, then he wouldn't need a tatto to remind him of that. Also, let's just say for the hell of it that he has that tatto to remind himself that he has the same condition. Wouldn't a better be something like "You have so&so disease" or "I have so&so disease" rather than the uninformative "Remember Sammy Jankins"? As for displacement, his tattoos are in the 3rd person - they say You and Your rather than I, except for the last tatto that says I.

[The Rob]

Teddy was telling the truth, Sami did exist but he was a conman.

Lenny on the other hand replaced Sami with himself i nthe insuline story......

[momentomanic]

I am bowled over BigBlue! I have seen the movie so many times that I have lost count. Several times I started to try to put down my current take of the movie but never could get it all down to my satisfaction. Probably the one version I must often end up with is exactly like yours. Except I sure as hell didn't get there after the second time! Great movie. Incidentally with all these viewings my admiration for the movie only grows. At first viewing I mostly concentrated (!) on trying to make some sort of sense. Then I began to notice the running comentary about memory and time, a subject dear to my heart. Finally I began to notice what a wonderful performance Guy Pierce gives. Did anyone else who has seen it many times go through such transformations? I wish it would get more award recognition, but I suppose that isn't very likely.