R-e-s-p-e-c-t, find out what it means to horror

[C-Desecration-]

So I think it's known that horror isn't a totally respected genre by the mainstream. Now ducking the question of if the fans even want it to be respected (respect leads to popularity, which leads to commercialization), how do you schmoes think the genre could go about getting some street cred?
Now apart from leading Uwe Boll into quicksand, recently, the best ways seem to be with remakes, both of old classics and asian. Most are critically successful, and even those that aren't get good large audiences, that appreciate the movies. And they seem to be on the rise too. Of course the best way to get street cred would be to only release quality movies, but I'm talking realistically here: what is the quickest, smartest way to get this genre into the spotlight?
Unless I'm forgetting, the biggest pop-culture-influencing horror flicks have been Sixth Sense and The Ring, recently. As for just those that are successful and appreciated by mainstream, it goes more towards remakes of asian movies (grudge, ring), and classic american remakes (TCM 2003, dawn).

But now, what if you think horror needs to step back and get a little more hardcore. How is the genre going to do that (realistically)?

So basically two questions: if you want horror to expand, how do you think it can/will in the forseeable future, and if you want horror to . . . well, shrink, I guess (only in mainstream terms), how do you think it can/will in the forseeable future.
Like I said, I want it to expand, and I think these remakes are the way to go, so I'd put my vote on them .

[Damone]

From what I see the quickest way to get the horror genre into the public spotlight is to continue casting known actors and actresses.
It seems to be a trend that started with Scream and has continued today. At one time most horror movies starred unknowns with the occasional name thrown in for a small cameo. Now there is at least one person that the target audience will recognize, whether it's a newer star like Jessica Biel or Barry Watson to more established stars like Bruce Willis and Robert DeNero.
If they do that and avoid the temptation of sequelling a movie to death, horror films should be able to stay in the spotlight.

[Klownzilla]

I think it all comes down to originality. It doesn't matter what stars you have in it, it's the structure of the film and all of the narrative elements which will get the film wide attention. Aspiring filmmakers should keep coming up with creative, new ideas that give the genre a different light.

[TheDeadWalk]

Give new ideas a chance, and minimize the mindless cliche films.

[syxxpac]

Take horror films seriously. The more mainstream ones at least have become way too focused on looking "slick" and "cool" for the kiddies, and have less to do with the visceral kick of horror movies gone by. Dawn Of The Dead '04, which I do love by the way, is a great example of this, as is any Paul Anderson movie post-Soldier.

Creepy atmosphere and the feeling of dread in decrepit, shadowy places has been replaced by loud music and Kung Fu...

...HEY! I've got an idea. I'll call upon someone to come rescue the genre.

*looks into mirror*

Candyman...Candyman...Candyman...Candyman...

....
...
..

...Candyman.

[Mr-Blonde]

IMO the genre's single biggest shortcoming is its lack of originality. Too many mindless remakes and very little creative spark have slowed the flow of quality horror movies being made. 2004 was an abyssmal year for horror with a few notable exceptions. Also several films in the genre have spawned a legion of unworthy sequels, some DTV that are absolute garbage. Part of the problem nowadays is that the studios used to try to hook the 18-24 demographic for horror films and now they are setting their sights much lower. These days it seems all they want is the 13-17 demographic which causes many horror movies to be edited to the point where they are unobtrusive and ineffectual.

[Damone]

This may sound stupid but...
Just out of curiousity for anyone who wants to answer....

What would you consider as an original horror idea that has not been tackled and would not cause someone to say, "Oh that's been done?"

By that I mean, your ideal horror movie, that you would love to see, that is not a rehash of something else?

[B1rd_Po0p]

Me personally: I don't like the slasher movies where it's just someone mindlessly picking off hapless teenagers one by one. I mean - how many times can you do that and still keep the story fresh? I prefer horror films with monsters and zombies and ghosts and hapless teenagers being EATEN one by one. I'd like to see more sci-fi in my horror I guess... (Not sure if that even answers the question. Sorry...)

[Damone]

There are no right or wrong answers. :)

With all the lack or originality complaints I was just curious what would someone have to see to make them sit back and say, "Now that was what I've been waiting for."

[Mr-Blonde]

Originally posted by Damone
This may sound stupid but...
Just out of curiousity for anyone who wants to answer....

What would you consider as an original horror idea that has not been tackled and would not cause someone to say, "Oh that's been done?"

By that I mean, your ideal horror movie, that you would love to see, that is not a rehash of something else?

I can provide you an example from 2004:

King of the Ants - 8/10 A fucking brilliantly done twisted and sadistic movie that had some great performances. The script is solid and goes places that you'd never expect it to. Refreshing dose of disturbing horror in an era of PG-13 wankfests

[The Mack]

I don't think horror is a genre that will ever truly be accepted by a mainstream audience. It will always be something that is held in high regard by a group of diehard fans, sort of like country music. Their may be horror movies which mainstream audiences will flock to see, but they will not help popularize the genre anymore.

I mean, let's remember the Blair Witch Project. That movie had all audiences excited about the genre. But when that film finally died down, the horror genre went back to normal. For me, I'm fine with that. I love horror movies, and they'll always be made because their will always be a market for them. If the rest of mainstream America doesn't like horror, that's their loss, not mine.

[ComeNightfall]

Originally posted by Mr-Blonde
IMO the genre's single biggest shortcoming is its lack of originality. Too many mindless remakes and very little creative spark have slowed the flow of quality horror movies being made. 2004 was an abyssmal year for horror with a few notable exceptions. Also several films in the genre have spawned a legion of unworthy sequels, some DTV that are absolute garbage. Part of the problem nowadays is that the studios used to try to hook the 18-24 demographic for horror films and now they are setting their sights much lower. These days it seems all they want is the 13-17 demographic which causes many horror movies to be edited to the point where they are unobtrusive and ineffectual.
I totally agree.

And I LOVE slashers, but the ones released to theaters or DTV (maybe with the exceptions of Haute Tension and Cherry Falls) have no sense of atmosphere, dread, creepiness, and they're not genuinely scary. Too much emphasis is put on humor and the MTV soundtrack by the latest nu-metal bands.

What I loved about most of the 70s and 80s B-slashers is even when they were cheesy, it was taken seriously and played straight. Also, the kills, while still brutal, weren't so over-the-top like Jason. I would love to see an American slasher made today that is done seriously and has enough realistic gore and an orchestral soundtrack. Is that so much to ask for?

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Damone
This may sound stupid but...
Just out of curiousity for anyone who wants to answer....

What would you consider as an original horror idea that has not been tackled and would not cause someone to say, "Oh that's been done?"

By that I mean, your ideal horror movie, that you would love to see, that is not a rehash of something else?

I've had some ideas.

Off the top of my head, I've wanted to do a film that is about a zombie epidemic that takes place in an actual rescue center, most likely a three story fire house.

I've also pondered a serial killer film about a guy who drives around in a sixties model hotrod listening to the oldies. He drives the strips in his large town, talking about music with a "silent friend" in the passenger seat. He's very old fashioned style, but charming when he wants to coax someone into the car, or pull into someone's driveway/garage and sneak in a side door and tie them and before smashing their brains out with a hammer while they scream to the tune of "Get back" by the Beatles or something. Side story about a female who ditches her abusive date and gets into the car with the killer, and he very dramatically offs her after she escapes his car on a back road and he kills her. The tough ass teenage brother and his friends in the pickup truck find out what the boyfriend did and kick his ass and then go on a lookout after she hasn't returned home and heard he got into a strange vehicle with someone else. Twist in the end is that the friend in the passenger seat was really dead, despite us seeing him use hand movements to quasi-communicate from the backseat POV all film long, which was just in the killer's mind. The audience would have been led to believe that he was either trashed or stoned, especially when soon to be victims ask "What's wrong with your friend?" Or "Why's he so quiet?" Think a horrific version of "American Graffiti" here.

Another dealt with a sadistic killer who lures several people into a warehouse for what they think is their first night of work. Also included is the protagonist truck driver who is driving a load of scrap metal into this place. They find out that they are locked in, and are periodically hunted down, some even killed with the type of tools you find in a maintenance shop, or a garbage compactor.

But those are just a few of my ideas off the top of my head.

[syxxpac]

You posted that zombie idea in the filmmaking forum, DeadWalk. What ever happened to that script? I remember liking it quite a bit.

Then there was the end sequence where the survivors got away from the overrun rescue centre and one character sacrifices himself to save a kid he bonded with...

I dunno. My memory's a tad foggy....Okay, it's really foggy, but who's keeping score?

[ComeNightfall]

After all those holiday themed slashers came out, I had an idea for an Easter slasher. I call it "Sunday, Bloody Sunday" and was about a fanatical religious priest who killed his wife on Easter Sunday because he felt she became corrupted. His son witnessed the crime and escaped. Then he returned to the town all grown up many years later and murders began again. Everyone thought the priest had escaped to start killing again, but it wasn't. The town this all took place in had lots of secrets and weirdo characters. Kinda like Twin Peaks meets Halloween. It wouldn't fly today, but it would probably make a decent horror novel.

[C-Desecration-]

IMO the genre's single biggest shortcoming is its lack of originality. Too many mindless remakes and very little creative spark have slowed the flow of quality horror movies being made.
And I LOVE slashers, but the ones released to theaters or DTV (maybe with the exceptions of Haute Tension and Cherry Falls) have no sense of atmosphere, dread, creepiness, and they're not genuinely scary. Too much emphasis is put on humor and the MTV soundtrack by the latest nu-metal bands.



Okay, okay, now:

So basically two questions: if you want horror to expand, how do you think it can/will in the forseeable future, and if you want horror to . . . well, shrink, I guess (only in mainstream terms), how do you think it can/will in the forseeable future.

This isn't a "what do you want from the horror genre period" thread. But if I'm misunderstanding and you guys are talking about, that you want horror to leave the MTV crowd and focus more on the . . . hardcore guys (sorry for using that word, but I'm plum out of others), that's fine.

Anyways, I agree with the point mack made about blare witch. So maybe the frenzy after The Ring is going to die down in a year or so, maybe less. Or maybe it'll actually stick this time (we'll see when Ring Two and Dark Water come out).

[B1rd_Po0p]

I've noticed a bit of 'blending' of genres lately - comedy and horror. While this is fine and works in some instances; sometimes I don't want a tense moment ruined by comic relief. (My main gripe with Resident Evil II - even though I don't even think you could classify that movie as 'horror'...) I guess this is a type of expansion in that they're trying to appeal to different types of people.

While this trend of trying to cater to younger audiences is fine and everything: in a sense that is expanding but I also hope they remember the 'hardcore' fans and make sure that they get stuff to chew on too. Is there a way to please everyone?

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by syxxpac
You posted that zombie idea in the filmmaking forum, DeadWalk. What ever happened to that script? I remember liking it quite a bit.

Then there was the end sequence where the survivors got away from the overrun rescue centre and one character sacrifices himself to save a kid he bonded with...

I dunno. My memory's a tad foggy....Okay, it's really foggy, but who's keeping score?

I've been working on the dialogue and character development scenes when I get the chance in-between semesters. It's just sort of become an off-time hobby.



I also wanted to state that I'm not real thrilled with all of the action in today's horror... genuine suspense, and scares that aren't just "boo" scares.

[C-Desecration-]

That's it! Boogeyman, alone, hide and seek, uwe boll, and I gosh darn agree with everyone here who's been saying today's horror is really in the dumps (the fact that things like boogeyman are making money irks me just a tad more too). There is constantine, which looks good, but cursed? Jeez.
So I surrender.
The schmoes are right.

I think horror needs to narrow down a little, because as is a bad horror movie is being released by the week and doing nothing to give the genre any sort of respect. How could it do that, realistically? I think it's all up to the audience. Horror's in right now. But it just doesn't matter what quality. If people actually listened to critics (here we go . . .), I think that would do some good.
At least they did with Alone. And with a three-wham-bam with alone, hide, and boogey (it's spelled bogeyman for crying out glayvin), audiences will probably get sick of those types of throwaway movies, ignore them, and the market will be forced to release more unique movies. And the market will narrow just a wee bit.

[The Mack]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
That's it! Boogeyman, alone, hide and seek, uwe boll, and I gosh darn agree with everyone here who's been saying today's horror is really in the dumps (the fact that things like boogeyman are making money irks me just a tad more too). There is constantine, which looks good, but cursed? Jeez.
So I surrender.
The schmoes are right.

I think horror needs to narrow down a little, because as is a bad horror movie is being released by the week and doing nothing to give the genre any sort of respect. How could it do that, realistically? I think it's all up to the audience. Horror's in right now. But it just doesn't matter what quality. If people actually listened to critics (here we go . . .), I think that would do some good.
At least they did with Alone. And with a three-wham-bam with alone, hide, and boogey (it's spelled bogeyman for crying out glayvin), audiences will probably get sick of those types of throwaway movies, ignore them, and the market will be forced to release more unique movies. And the market will narrow just a wee bit.

I agree with the majority of what you said other than the part about Cursed. Cursed may suck, it may not. But I don't think it's fair to call any film sucky until you've seen it. I think all horror movies deserve that chance.

[C-Desecration-]

I guess I tend to judge movies on critics and general audiences (that I haven't seen). For instance, if not a single critic calls something an honest-to-goodness good movie, and the positive are all - all - "fun schlock", and the audience is vibing that way, I stick with fun schlock. Like alone, boogeyman, hide, never seen (I'm just saying that if both critics and audiences dislike them it doesn't bode will for horror, although I'm not positive on hide and seek, I think a lot of the audience could be liking that one, so . . .).

You're right about cursed, I suppose. Not getting a good feeling from the TV spots or that trailer though.