Why the f*ck did they make The Honeymooners black?

[Indiana Sev]

Am I the only one who goes ape everytime a movie studio takes a famous literary, comic or TV character and changes its race for the film version? I officially went berserk when I saw the upcoming The Honeymooners trailer and noticed that Ralph Kramden and Ed Norton are now black. They pulled this stunt in the horrible Charlie's Angels as well with an Asian angel and in the decent Daredevil with a black Kingpin.

For a more in-depth version on my thoughts on this (I'm too lazy to explain it all again), see the link below.

http://www.joblo.com/index.php?id=6442

I thought this would be perfect fodder for the Rant Forum so please feel free to share your point of views on this matter.

[A.J. Hakari]

I understand that Gabrielle Union is part of the cast. Thus, I welcome THE HONEYMOONERS with open arms.

[Indiana Sev]

Originally posted by Adam J. Hakari
I understand that Gabrielle Union is part of the cast.

Yeah, but I heard they're making her wear white makeup. The whole world's gone nuts. ;)

PS: Before welcoming it, check out the trailer, it looks like they went out of their way to not make it funny.

[A.J. Hakari]

Originally posted by Indiana Sev
Yeah, but I heard they're making her wear white makeup. The whole world's gone nuts. ;)

http://www.filmup.com/personaggi/jamescoburn/img/jamescoburn.jpg

"That's just mean, man!"








So sue me, I couldn't find a picture of Coburn from PAYBACK. :p

[The Heart Collector]

Oh god, I thought you meant Edward Norton.

[The Heart Collector]

BTW, Charlie's Angels barely counts. I mean, it's not like they were interpreting the characters from the original angels.... they were just 3 chicks.

[Indiana Sev]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
BTW, Charlie's Angels barely counts. I mean, it's not like they were interpreting the characters from the original angels.... they were just 3 chicks.

Since the character's names were not the same I have to say you make a valid point there. I suppose in this case it was just a lame politically correct move on the part of the filmmakers. They should have been more concerned in making a competent movie, but alas...

[TheDeadWalk]

My money says the Simpsons movie characters will be oriental.

Despite the fact that they're still animated.

[miguel_montes]

I didn't mind at all Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin. It was a good casting choice. Too bad he had almost no screen time...

[Nachokoolaid]

Originally posted by miguel_montes
I didn't mind at all Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin. It was a good casting choice. Too bad he had almost no screen time...

I agree. I can't really think of a "big man" that could would have done a better job in that role. Can you?

As for THE HONEYMOONERS- that's terrible. I would have liked to see a remake, maybe-just maybe, if they cast non-Cedric and Epps actors, and set in in the 50s. And made it funny. This film did none of those. Boooooooo!!!!! and Hissssssssssssss!!!!!

[Kato76]

I just would like to point out that Jim West was also White and he was played by none other that mr jiggie himself Will Smith... don't get me wrong I like will but I like the original Wild wild west better....

I'm with you on this Keep the characters the same race please...

J-:mad: :mad:

[bdubprod]

i posted this over in the Upcoming forum a few weeks ago....

I agree 150% with you IndySev

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Oh god, I thought you meant Edward Norton.


shit, casting Edward Norton as Ed Norton woulda been a better idea

[bigred760]

Originally posted by miguel_montes
I didn't mind at all Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin. It was a good casting choice. Too bad he had almost no screen time...


I agree as well. He was a great casting choice, but little screen time. I think the movie would have been much better had his role been expanded and more thought out.


As for "The Honeymooners," I've only seen one episode of the show and so I don't know much about it. I do recognize the classic status of it though, so I can appreciate the Sev's rants. And he's right, the trailer sucked.

[jeo4]

Am I the only one who doesn't find Cedric the (so-called) Entertainer the least bit funny? Really. What studio retard watched THE JOHNSON FAMILY VACATION and found this no-talent hack funny enough to say "Hey! He'd make a great Ralph Kramden!"

And while I'm at it, remakes of most shows or movies are bad, with a scant few exceptions. This remake is taking a TV show that is 50 years old, and I will bet my last nickel that it gets "sexed up" with fart jokes, kids being obnoxious, pimp/ho jokes, bad sight gags, lots of yelling, semi-nude women, etc. And bear in mind I haven't even seen the trailer to this yet.

And as Kato76 pointed out, WILD WILD WEST was originally Robert Conrad's bread and butter. And it was a damn good show, too. Then Will Smith starred in a slapped together remake that was just awful. What started out as a novel concept just went south very fast. And at least I thought that this film would have promise. I see no hope for a Honeymooners movie.

So, let's create a formula here:

Talentless asshole
+50 yr old show(no originality)
+bad humor
+Black performers in an originally white blue collar show
______________________________________________
Shit movie

It's the perfect equation of stupidity in Hollywood. The film seems to be using this formula. And I hope it crashes and burns.

[thorglife420]

I don't think its a big deal that they r black, I've got more of a problem wit: 1. The trailer doesn't look enjoyable at all
2. other then using the same names, it seems 2 have nothing at all 2 do wit the original show

[thorglife420]

Originally posted by jeo4
Am I the only one who doesn't find Cedric the (so-called) Entertainer the least bit funny? Really. What studio retard watched THE JOHNSON FAMILY VACATION and found this no-talent hack funny enough to say "Hey! He's make a great Ralph Kramden!"


Actually if u ever have seen his stand-up he is quite funny, and him and Steve Harvey do make quite a good duo. Although I will admit THE JOHNSON FAMILY VACATION was pure shit

[Twisted Sister]

I think that most remakes these days suck, regardless of ethnicity. As Jeo pointed out, it seems like everything nowadays is sexed-up with toilet humor, which is just plain stupid. How many fart jokes are worth paying $8 for at the theater before consumers stop giving them their hard earned money? It's baffling.

But I do think there's hope. I mean, what if Spike Lee remade the Honeymooners? He's smart and edgy without stooping to the lows of butt/fart/booger jokes. And he most certainly would do a great job with casting.

And no, Cedric the Entertainer does not entertain me in the least. NOT a good comedian. It's interesting, the only standouts from the Kings of Comedy (to me, anyway) are DL Hughley and Bernie Mac. Yet Cedric is everywhere. I don't get it. :confused:

[ComeNightfall]

shit, casting Edward Norton as Ed Norton woulda been a better idea
I at least would have paid money to see that.

I'm half-black and I don't get Hollywood trying to be totally PC when it comes to casting. I mean, are boycotts from Jesse Jackson and Kwesi Mfume really going to hurt?

Well, at least we can take pride in that the Dukes of Hazzard remake is still all-white... ;)

[thorglife420]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
It's interesting, the only standouts from the Kings of Comedy (to me, anyway) are DL Hughley and Bernie Mac. Yet Cedric is everywhere. I don't get it. :confused:

Well Harvey, Cedric, and Bernie all had success on television while Hughley's show started off successful but was moved 2 UPN and had 2 rely on Kelly Rowland 2 get ratings

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by thorglife420
Well Harvey, Cedric, and Bernie all had success on television while Hughley's show started off successful but was moved 2 UPN and had 2 rely on Kelly Rowland 2 get ratings

There are other forms of success outside of network tv.

Besides, I was answering Jeo's question about Cedric the Entertainer, and since I actually saw The Original Kings of Comedy live, was referring to what I PERSONALLY took away from the show. Cedric was NOT funny, and God help Steve Harvey. He had me snoring.

[James Logan]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
I think that most remakes these days suck, regardless of ethnicity. As Jeo pointed out, it seems like everything nowadays is sexed-up with toilet humor, which is just plain stupid. How many fart jokes are worth paying $8 for at the theater before consumers stop giving them their hard earned money? It's baffling.

But I do think there's hope. I mean, what if Spike Lee remade the Honeymooners? He's smart and edgy without stooping to the lows of butt/fart/booger jokes. And he most certainly would do a great job with casting.

And no, Cedric the Entertainer does not entertain me in the least. NOT a good comedian. It's interesting, the only standouts from the Kings of Comedy (to me, anyway) are DL Hughley and Bernie Mac. Yet Cedric is everywhere. I don't get it. :confused:

What the woman said.

Oh, and on that Will Smith in WILD WILD WEST thing...Casting the Kingpin black didn't make a difference. Casting Jim West black was a huge mistake -- the movie was supposed to take place in the Wild West. Sure, there were black cowboys then...but do you really think they were loved? ;)

[Cunning Visions]

Here are a few things I've noticed with movies that feature a predominantly black cast...

1.) The film will most likely be a goofy comedy. Studio execs feel that moviegoers will only pay to see a movie with an all black cast ONLY if they act "crazy and wacky"

2.) There will always be a "Loud Annoying Character" (made popular by Chris Tucker) He will usually be the lead actors sidekick and the only point of the character is to loudly say something comical when the lead actor does something stupid.

3.) There will be at least one slow motion shot of a big booty woman. Then they cut to a shot of the actor and his sidekick standing with their mouths open...Loud Annoying Character will then say "Daaaaamn!!"

4.) White people can't dance or act cool. There will inevitably be a scene where a white character (mostly an old lady) will try to act ghetto by saying something like "wuz up dawg?!"

5.) It is mandatory to have a wacky character who's either a stereotypical Chinese/Japanese or Korean.

6.) Depending on the rating (PG-13 or R), there will be at least one reference to marijuana. Followed by a scene where the character will do or say something goofy while high.

[C-Desecration-]

For some reason I don't think this has anything to do with being PC. With the exception of Will Smith, maybe a few more, there aren't many black comedians (not necessarily standup, just blacks in a comedy) in movies that aren't low-budget. Things like that, black airplane, the johnsen family vacation, that fat albert, that ice cube road trip thing. Low-budget, little buzz, they come and hope for decent numbers (even the good ones, like barbershop was supposed to be). Some of them might turn out successful. None are ever any huge event movie. This happens with a few white comedian movies, well actually, more romantic comedies then, things like that wedding movie that came out a few weeks ago with the chick from Will and Grace (gosh, aren't I informed).
It just so happens most black comedians aren't nearly the attraction some of the whites are, since they have more of a name for themselves. Throw Jim Carrey in this movie and suddenly it's an event (likewise for will smith).

Now the honeymooners could have been, if they had recognizeable white actors (or will smith). But my bet is, the entire concept was just terrible, they just wanted to cash-in on the name, so throw in second-rate black comedians, and hope for modest success.

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by Cunning Visions
Here are a few things I've noticed with movies that feature a predominantly black cast...

1.) The film will most likely be a goofy comedy. Studio execs feel that moviegoers will only pay to see a movie with an all black cast ONLY if they act "crazy and wacky"

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000A7W14.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000A7W14.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

While it IS an exception, Boyz in the Hood also came out ages ago. It was released at the same time other black directors were emerging with solid projects, ala Spike Lee. I think Cunning has a great point, and that is the majority of films put out these days featuring a mostly-black cast are formulaic and not marketed on the same scale as movies featuring big-name white comedians.

Just look at the remake of "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner." The casting was reversed from a racial perspective, then made formulaic and wacky. It takes the significance out of the original, which was interesting and poignant.

[Mr-Blonde]

This is the stupidest idea to come down the pike in a long time and it's going to bomb bigger than Hiroshima.

Next up on Hollywood's list? A remake of the sitcom Good Times w/ Jim Carrey as JJ.

http://img157.exs.cx/img157/786/carrey2eu.jpg

DY-NO-MITE!!!

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by Mr-Blonde
This is the stupidest idea to come down the pike in a long time and it's going to bomb bigger than Hiroshima.

Next up on Hollywood's list? A remake of the sitcom Good Times w/ Jim Carrey as JJ.

http://img157.exs.cx/img157/786/carrey2eu.jpg

DY-NO-MITE!!!

HAHAHA, way to put it in perspective, Mr-Blonde! I cringed with the imagery!

[bigred760]

Originally posted by James Logan

Oh, and on that Will Smith in WILD WILD WEST thing...Casting the Kingpin black didn't make a difference. Casting Jim West black was a huge mistake -- the movie was supposed to take place in the Wild West. Sure, there were black cowboys then...but do you really think they were loved? ;)


Actually, racism against blacks wasn't a problem in the Old West - just against Indians.

[James Logan]

Originally posted by bigred760
Actually, racism against blacks wasn't a problem in the Old West - just against Indians.

Those fuckin' Indians...

Now, I do seem to remember to have read a lot of stuff on the way Blacks were treated at the time, and although it was nowhere near the way Native Americans were treated, I don't recall it being Rainbow Land either. But as you live in the goddamn country...we'll say you're right until I find proof. ;)

You win a battle, mister Bond...but you do NOT win the war!

[Indiana Sev]

I'd just like to point out that I actually thought Duncan did a good job as the Kingpin but I still think it was wrong to change the character's race. It's the principle of the thing.

A lot of good points brought up here so far.

[gspawn]

My view- there's a BIG difference between taking a new artistic direction with a piece and really making it work, and just slapping a different race in there because you're too untalented to do it right.

If it's done well, and done respectfully, I have no problem. You're allowed freedom to rethink them when doing adaptations.

As for black Kinkgpin? I think (could be wrong?) they just didn't every try to get a white man. They threw that out the window from the beginning, and starting looking for a black guy for no good reason (well, the reason was really because they thought a fat black man was easier to accept, but that's a LOT more offensive).

Black Kingpin was bad because it had no taste, and it had no direction. It was a choice made because no one was willing to even try things the way they were written. That is offensive to me, and I do agree we should try to nix that. Any project which is only "make it (race)!" just for the sake of a quick buck isn't cool.

That said, yes a black Honeymooners could be done. If, say, someone like Spike Lee were doing it as a social commentary piece (or something to that effect). But it's probably just being done to get black people on screen and "urban-ize" something for the money.

[boombche_stum]

I agree with Indiana Sev on this one. This seems to be a trend in Hollywood and I don't think it's a good one. Now, I agree with most people that Duncan was played a good Kingpin but I get where Sev is coming from on this one. If you read a comic book for years and years and you're a huge fan and the character is a specific skin color, then Hollywood just up and switches that around (basically spitting in the face of the source material for the most part), wouldn't you be at least a little upset? If they are going to do that, they shouldn't even use the name of the original source material Cough*Catwoman*Cough.

Now, I don't know where Hollywood gets the idea that being PC is a money bringer, but I guess I never will know. It's basically to satisfy those very few people who speak out (Jesse Jackson, etc.). Only problem is, instead of, say making intelligent black characters in a comedy, they throw in the stereotypical "wacky and crazy" blacks who sing and dance and do all that fun stuff. Well, I don't find that funny. I find that insulting to my intelligence. Thats what this new Honeymooners trailer reminds me of. The typical, unoriginal comedy full of stereotypical blacks. Kind of like Geuss Who with Bernie Mac. Man, come to think of it, there's quite a few of these movies coming out these days. That's sad.

[Redneck Punk]

Originally posted by James Logan
Those fuckin' Indians...


The correct term for Indians is Native Americans.

Just like the correct term for the French is Rifle-Dropper.

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by Redneck Punk
The correct term for Indians is Native Americans.

Just like the correct term for the French is Rifle-Dropper.

Awwwww, shit, Logan, you gat sarved!:p

[BorderEevilIII]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
Awwwww, shit, Logan, you gat sarved!:p

Sarved?!?!?

I have heard of this phrase that was a title of this movie...

http://www.tlavideo.com/images/catalog_gaybase/201726.jpg


Anyway like actor Jamie Kennedy once said in a movie.....

http://www.theworldjournal.com/special/movies/2003/malibusmostwanted.jpg

Kennedy: Don't be hatin'. :D


Anyway, I have seen the trailer for The Honeymooners and WHY they decided to go urban..... everyone who has seen or familiar w/ the show why ?

Cedric is usually a hit or miss on the roles he takes on......
He's awright on the Vacation like film called Johnson's Family Vacation..... The setup and formula was awfully similar to the one w/ Chevy Chase.... And Halle Berry nabbing the role of Catowman? Now steering back to the Urban take of The Honeymooners..... Big Yay on Gabrielle Union :D
Big Nay on Mike Epps on the role of Norton.... He may have been funny (to me at least in the Friday Movies) but he looks like the weak link here...:confused:

[Twisted Sister]

Originally posted by BorderEevilIII
Sarved?!?!?

I have heard of this phrase that was a title of this movie...

http://www.tlavideo.com/images/catalog_gaybase/201726.jpg



LOL, Border - I was trying to phoneticize it with some 'tude. Guess it didn't work, eh?
:p

[BorderEevilIII]

Originally posted by Twisted Sister
LOL, Border - I was trying to phoneticize it with some 'tude. Guess it didn't work, eh?
:p

ohhhhh so that phrase is passe?

ooops on me I guess I aint hip no mo :( ;)

And I don't think it was mentioned yet but in reference to the Charlies Angels movie and why they decided to add one female chracter other than white ya gotta figure that the show all the girls were basically white. What's my point with this? I guess that they are trying to appeal more to the crowds nowdays.... And the role of Lucy Liu was almost gonna be played by Thandie Newton/Lauryn Hill.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Redneck Punk
The correct term for Indians is Native Americans.

Just like the correct term for the French is Rifle-Dropper.

So I suppose the proper term for Americans like yourself is "native American land stealers"?

[Redneck Punk]

Originally posted by MacReady
So I suppose the proper term for Americans like yourself is "native American land stealers"?
You can just use the short form "NALS".

[josephruss1049]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Indiana Sev
[B]Am I the only one who goes ape everytime a movie studio takes a famous literary, comic or TV character and changes its race for the film version? I officially went berserk when I saw the upcoming The Honeymooners trailer and noticed that Ralph Kramden and Ed Norton are now black. They pulled this stunt in the horrible Charlie's Angels as well with an Asian angel and in the decent Daredevil with a black Kingpin.


For everyone's information the original show upon which “Sanford and Son” copied was a British comedy starring an all white cast. Many of what we consider classic stories with white characters such as Cinderella are retellings of stories from non white cultures. Even Elizabeth Taylor starred as Cleopatra who was a non white. If you just stop and think about it the movies are all about presenting life not as it is but as it could be.

Actors by profession act like people they are not. A romantic leading man may present on the screen a womanizing persona with an insatiable appetite for female flesh, but in reality prefer manly meat. That's why it's called acting. It's make believe and some one's fantasy.

:)

[Zebra 3]

Originally posted by Indiana Sev
Am I the only one who goes ape everytime a movie studio takes a famous literary, comic or TV character and changes its race for the film version? I officially went berserk when I saw the upcoming The Honeymooners trailer and noticed that Ralph Kramden and Ed Norton are now black. The way I see it, The Honeymooners' star can be white, black, asian or even Republican for all I care as long as his name is Jackie Gleason, otherwise it's yet another ill thought Hollywood remake I'll avoid.

[The Postmaster General]

I don't care about the color switch, and I don't think any of it has to do with PC-issues. It just has to do with the way things are happening. And like josephruss1049 said, it has nothing to do with color, but everything to do with the adoption of stories across culturals.

You could be just as upset about them making The Honeymooners into cartoons for the past 4 decades.

And i don't know the statistics on bus drivers in New York, but, you know...

Either way, doesn't matter. This movie will be a real shit storm. I ain't even looking at the trailer. I'm almost ashamed to be posting with people who have. Haha.