Planet of the Apes Ending Discussion

[daddiefatsacks]

*********SPOILERS***************
*********SPOILERS***************
*********SPOILERS***************

Well, i saw it, anyone wanna explain how when Marky Mark went back in time, apes ruled D.C.??? I dont get it.

[This message has been edited by daddiefatsacks (edited 07-28-2001).]

[ak]

I have read about the ending, and i actually believe in fact that he went forward in time. If you go to www.aintitcoolnews.com (http://www.aintitcoolnews.com) and read Harry Knowles review he gives his opinion, and its a good one that makes sense of it. I, personally, don't see the problem with understanding that ending, and i think its a very good one too.

[Lazycouch]

I really liked the movie. While it the lead character, and the female character lacked character development, all the other apes were developed really well and the actors portraying them did an excellent job.

I liked the ending, but I thought it was a little sloppy. It could have either been that he *spoiler*


went back in time, or forward in time. I thought the ending needed a little bit more explaining so we could get it.

[ak]

*Spoilers*


Why would he go back in time? That makes even less sense. Humans built the Lincoln Memorial, not apes. That wouldn't explain anything, when would apes have inhabited our world? all those thousands of years of us knowing our basic history thrown out the window. No way.

[doctor drew]

Alright here's my take on the whole thing.

******************* SPOILERS **********************


After Wahlberg gets back in the Alpha Pod and takes off back for Earth, he's forced to once again travel through the crazy magnetic field storm. If you remember from the beginnning of the film, when he originally went through it, time was accelerated some 1000 years, which explains how the people from his crew crashed landed on the planet and how they co-existed with the super smart apes only to eventually be enslaved by the apes...the 1000 years would also account for how they apes became super-evolved. His crew travelled in real time but he did not.

Now, when Wahlberg heads back through the storm, here's what probably happened. General Thade was never killed, he was merely locked up in the spacehship and in our final shot of him, you can tell he looks mighty pissed. He probably escaped from the ship, continued to enslave the humans (or at least rule the apes) but here's the twist...he probably got Pericles (Wahlberg's ape) to pilot the ship (which was still working) back to planet Earth, thereby taking over that planet too. When Wahlberg went back into the storm, the time was accelerated another 1000 years, which would have given Thade and his apes plenty of time to colonize Earth and maybe even kill off all the humans. (assuming Thade and the apes travelled through the storm in real time) If you read the inscription on the Lincoln Monument (with Thade's face, it said something to the effect of "In honour of our saviour and founding father General Thade).

It didn't quite hit me at first...but I'm pretty sure that's what Burton was aiming for.

[This message has been edited by doctor drew (edited 07-28-2001).]

[ak]

That is the best reasoning i have heard..

[loner]

The REAL shock at the end of the movie is that Marky Mark decides to leave that planet instead of staying there with Estella Warren.

[Horror whore]

I think dr. drew's opinion makes sence...

[Narst]

What about that scene when Pericles returned? What was Michael Clarke Duncan talking about with him "fufilling the prophecy."

[Madhatter]

This movie was great i say as good as the frist. NOT a dissponitment.

******************* SPOILER **********************


the end very cool. i thought that mtv show runied it for me but it didn't. i guessed wrong. i belive General Thade did do something to go back to earth(maybe there was a pod that surved the crased and he used that to go back in time to earth)

[This message has been edited by Madhatter (edited 07-28-2001).]

[Vincent Highwind]

oK THINK ABOUT IT.

The station crashlands on the planet thousands (probably millions) of years ago.

He lands on the plant and apes rule becasue of the advanced monkies.

He goes forward in Time and landsin Washington in the present with apes ruleing... duhh it doesn't take a rocket scientice to figure this one out. The station landed on earth before the actuall spawn of man. which lead to the apes evolving to what they were when he arrives. Then he gets sent back through the storm and lands back on earth in modern movie time with the apes running it again thus screwing with how the the earth started. Watch Back to the Future 2. The use the exact same concept.

[Watermelon Man]

I didn't think it was hard to understand, I thought it was just great and I recognize TimBurton there at the end and I know why he's my favorite director. He has so much style and Planet of the Apes isn't an exception, it's a good movie.

Do you think it could get any Oscars ?

- Special effects
- Make-Up
- Costume
- Best supporting actor : Tim Roth ?

[Vincent Highwind]

I thing it will probably take all but special effects. That one is questionable.

[bmain77]

I think the only possible explanation assuming there will be at least one sequel if not a couple is that Thade did manage to get to Earth somehow. Anyways, I still don't know how I feel about this film. I think I need to watch it again. I hate to say it, but I honestly think that Tim Burton might have sold out a little bit on this one. It just struck me as a summer fun flick, a more intelligent than normal one, but still just a fun popcorn movie. Not that all of Burton's other films aren't fun, but Apes just didn't have genius Burton touch that comes across in all of his films. Again I need to watch it again before I pass my final judgement, but this is far from Burton's best and it better not win any Oscars besides makeup and costume. Tim ROth and Helena Bonham Carter were good, but not oscar good and the special affects while solid did not blow me away at all.

[PhilR]

Vincent Highwind:

*spoilers, although I figgered this was common knowledge*

The planet the Oberon crashed on wasn't Earth, because last time I checked, Earth did not have 3 moons.

[edonline]

My suggestion... it was a parallel earth

[ak]

Lord of the Rings will get all the creative Oscars next year...perhaps the make-up will go to POTA, who knows?

[This message has been edited by ak (edited 07-29-2001).]

[bskutle]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Vincent Highwind:
oK THINK ABOUT IT.

The station crashlands on the planet thousands (probably millions) of years ago.

He lands on the plant and apes rule becasue of the advanced monkies.

He goes forward in Time and landsin Washington in the present with apes ruleing... duhh it doesn't take a rocket scientice to figure this one out. The station landed on earth before the actuall spawn of man. which lead to the apes evolving to what they were when he arrives. Then he gets sent back through the storm and lands back on earth in modern movie time with the apes running it again thus screwing with how the the earth started. Watch Back to the Future 2. The use the exact same concept.</font>

Vincent (and ak), he doesn't go forward in time. If you watched carefully, you saw a shot of the clock moving BACKWARDS in date and year at the end, so he doesn't go even further into the future.

I do agree it's like in "Back to the Future Part 2," but you'll recall that the reason the alternate 1985 occured was because Marty altered the future by buying that almanac(sp?), it wasn't because of some storm of whatever. I think that when he changed the future of that planet by leading the humans in rebellion, he also caused a shift in Earth's future as well, which actually fits in with edonline's idea that it's a parallel earth (I didn't think about that). It doesn't make the most logical sense in the world, but I do know he doesn't go forward.

Overall, I liked it- it's the type of fun, exciting, and intriguing sci-fi adventure we've been promised by everything from "Final Fantasy" to "Battlefield Earth," yet is the only one that delivers completely. Tim Burton is the MAN! And am I the only one who loved Danny Elfman's score?

Grade- A or 9/10

[Narst]

bskutle, that explenation does make a lot of sense. Except I have one question about it. If Earth was just affected by the other planet's human uprising, why would Earth be worshipping Thaid?

[bskutle]

Good question; I never said it was my most thought-out theory ever. I suppose the idea of Thade somehow going back in Earth's time is about the only explanation- it would fit w/ what I have now.

[TheMovieMinor]

Mark Wahlbergs pod showed his dates go backwards. So he didnt go into the future. And how is it the monkeys oh excuse me apes! get the exact same things as we had. That was cheap, the ending screwed up the movie a little.

[ClarkGriswald]

Not true, Wahlberg DOES go into the future!

I paid attention during this, since I had some woman with a big ole fat wig sitting in front of me in the damn near beginning. Its 2029 when he enters the storm. When he goes through that wormhole (best term for it, don't you think?), the date and year on this little bar he has goes FORWARD. We last see it as it nears 2800 AD or something like that. For the next hour and a half I really enjoyed it, and I mean really. Mind you, the first vision I feel was a bit better, especially the ending!

**SPOILER ALERT SO BE WARNED**

The final battle sequence was amazing - until Sparky The Wonder Monkey (or Pericles, however you wish to call him) lands out of NOWHERE! The battle stops dead in the middle and it gets resolved with Thade getting stuck in the Oberon's bridge? UGH! Didn't like that, but that chimp was cool. Thumbs up back to ya, buddy!

Of course, I remember one of the last things Davidson says at the end. He told the two races to get together and get along. Could this mean they are friendler and even have ape/human nookie? *shudder* I don't know, I will try to figure that out when I see it again. And again, as he leaves to come home the time goes BACKWARD to 2029 AD. When he lands, it sounds like a human voice from the control tower. . . "DAMN DIRTY APES!" The Lincoln scene, a human with an ape face, was okay, but not as breaking as the ending to the first Apes movie. But hey, with this ending we can get a sequel - and at this point in time, it would be awesome. The sequel to the original POTA was horrible, just horrible. Let's get a sequel, "Return to the Planet of the Apes," where we find Wahlberg trying to fix time! Kids and their time travel, I swear . . .

My quick rating of the 2001 version - 7/10. Rating of the original version - 9/10.

[ClarkGriswald]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Thade. Thade looked like Lincoln. Hmm. We will get a sequel. It made near $70 mil first weekend, more than Sleepy Hollow did when it lost to The World Is Not Enough under two years ago. Interesting. Burton is da man! Oh, and Elfman's score kicked ass, I got the CD to listen to already!

"GRR BOW YOUR HEAD!"

[bskutle]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ClarkGriswald:
Not true, Wahlberg DOES go into the future!

I paid attention during this, since I had some woman with a big ole fat wig sitting in front of me in the damn near beginning. Its 2029 when he enters the storm. When he goes through that wormhole (best term for it, don't you think?), the date and year on this little bar he has goes FORWARD. We last see it as it nears 2800 AD or something like that. For the next hour and a half I really enjoyed it, and I mean really. Mind you, the first vision I feel was a bit better, especially the ending!

**SPOILER ALERT SO BE WARNED**

The final battle sequence was amazing - until Sparky The Wonder Monkey (or Pericles, however you wish to call him) lands out of NOWHERE! The battle stops dead in the middle and it gets resolved with Thade getting stuck in the Oberon's bridge? UGH! Didn't like that, but that chimp was cool. Thumbs up back to ya, buddy!

Of course, I remember one of the last things Davidson says at the end. He told the two races to get together and get along. Could this mean they are friendler and even have ape/human nookie? *shudder* I don't know, I will try to figure that out when I see it again. And again, as he leaves to come home the time goes BACKWARD to 2029 AD. When he lands, it sounds like a human voice from the control tower. . . "DAMN DIRTY APES!" The Lincoln scene, a human with an ape face, was okay, but not as breaking as the ending to the first Apes movie. But hey, with this ending we can get a sequel - and at this point in time, it would be awesome. The sequel to the original POTA was horrible, just horrible. Let's get a sequel, "Return to the Planet of the Apes," where we find Wahlberg trying to fix time! Kids and their time travel, I swear . . .

My quick rating of the 2001 version - 7/10. Rating of the original version - 9/10.</font>

ClarkGriswold-

Yes, at first he does go into the future; we were referring to the end. A lot of people are saying he goes even FURTHER into the future- that's what I'm arguing.

[7_Words]

I think that The (actual) Planet of the Apes was a screwed up earth ruled by apes. Leo went into a time-warp into the past, and when he went back to his home... it was a evolved present day Planet of the Apes. Its the only way it would make sense of the apes on earth knowing about General Thade... unless a sequel will answer it properly.

[Spirito]

This is what it said at the end of the movie on the wall of the Temple:

"In This Temple
As In The Hearts Of The Apes
For Whom He Saved The Planet
The Memory Of General Thade
Enshrined Forever"

Walberg heads back in time not forward. The ship's clock begins in 2800 and starts going backwards to the year 2185. Walberg was from 2029 I think and if that is true then he didn't go back far enough in time at the end of the movie. Perhaps Thade escaped his prison and somehow made it to earth in the other spaceship but did so long before Walberg made it back the same way Walberg's crew on the space ship made it to the planet of the apes long before him. Do any of you think Thade maybe took over Earth and enslaved the humans or that it was just an alternate version of earth?

Chris
buffdadde@home.com

[Watermelon Man]

At the begenning he's in 2029
On the Planet of the Apes, he's in 2800 or something
At the end when he comes back, he's 21??

So he went back in time but still in the future of the begenning

Get it ?

[lordrellik]

Allright people... here is the explanation of the ending. SPOILERS are here... blah blah. I warn you this is LONG, but detailed and should explain the ending.

In the begining of the movie Pericles goes out and gets mysteriously lost/separated from contact from the space station... Leo takes a pod/ship thing and goes into the electrical storm against orders to retrieve him.

The space station then tries tracking Leo and begins receiving all the radio transmissions ever made from earth. As they approach the electrical storm they hone in on transmissions to/from their ship and we see them recieve their own distress signal from their own ship in the past... we then see the commander say something like "Abort" or something and we never see the space station again...

Now leo finds pericles in the electrical storm and then whoom... he's gone... warps somewhere into time... we at this time don't know where... so leo tries to follow.

When he goes THROUGH the time/warp thing in the electrical storm... we see Leo's clock racing forward into the future. This in actuality means nothing except that Leo was in a different time, and the ship time was obviously screwed up because of this. Leo believed he went into the future because of this. When he exits the "warp" or "portal" or whatever you want to call it, Leo finds himself crash landing onto SOME planet in what he thinks is the future.

He then gets captured by the apes, escapes, and follows the distress signal to the remains of his own space station that went through the electrical storm to save him...

He then sees the ENTIRE distress log thing... where we AGAIN see the Mayday call made by the commander, and then see the preceding calls where we learn about SEMOS and his rebellion.

Then the apes and humans all fight and pericles arrives. THe apes all realize that they did evolve on there own but from the human intervention. No character in the movie quite understands totally what has happened at this point in time.

Thade goes on his rampage, pericles gets hurt, leo traps thade on the ship and leaves him alive and shaking, and then all the apes and humans watch as leo leaves in Pericles' ship, hoping to go back into what HE thinks is the past to return back to Earth.

Leo goes back into the electrical storm, crash lands back into EARTH (which we KNOW is EARTH cuz we see North America...), his ship's time RACES backwards so we all think he did it... and when he walks up to the lincoln memorial... he sees that it is General Thade's image, not Lincoln's... and the truth is revealed to him, (and us) as this...

The electrical storm was a time warp, when the space station received their own distress signal they in fact were recieving a signal that had been around for thousands of years, they tried to abort but not in time... Pericles went through the warp arriving on the ape planet at the scene of the last battle... Leo follows him into the warp later... arriving a little earlier in time onto the planet... the space station (this is implied) then failed to escape the time warp and went through after pericles and leo... only to arrive thousands of years EARLIER onto the planet.

Then SEMOS and the monkeys rebelled... killed the humans... and over time formed the APE civilization. Leo then arrives later in time, escapes, rebels etc... and the final battle takes place. Then pericles arrives at the battle... and we have our ending... where LEO leaves and goes back into what he thinks is the past but what is REALLY the future, only to find that

1) The planet was EARTH all along,

2) The electrical storm really had sent pericles into the distant past, then him (leo) a little further into the past, and then the space station WAY into the past.

3) He had gone back into the storm and warped back into the future, only to find that because he left THADE alive, history had been altered, THADE won the war, and APES ruled the planet.

THE END

Thank you very much. I'd also like to say that you must keep in mind that just because the ship clock raced into the future when leo first crash lands... and raced into the past when he goes back into the electrical storm at the end of the movie, this doesn't mean anything more than that something funky was going on with the time. Maybe the ship's clock was based on planetary positioning etc., who knows... or maybe Burton just did it to f*ck with our heads and throw us (and LEO) off... but the fact remains that if you and I were to go back in time to say 12:32 pm 1300 BC eastern standard time, our wrist watches wouldn't race backwards into time, they'd still say whatever time they said when we left our day and age... and the date would still be July, 2001 AD. Meanwhile our cell phones would all be out of service. :P

[lordrellik]

vincent is right, bscutle... the clock thing is just to throw us all off. Vincent has a shorter version of my explanation... and I apologize for not saying that earlier, but I kept reading all these other incorrect versions of the ending, and had to explain.

But the fact that the clock went forward in time in the beginning of the movie, and back in time at the end, doesn't mean squat... except that time was screwed up somehow...

we can OBSERVE from the movie that the electrical storm sent the monkey, leo, and then the space station further into the past respectively. The planet was an EARLY EARTH, and leo fucked everything up, and when he went back into the electrical storm... he arrived in the future, which had been altered by THADE. That's what he get's for not killing the damn chimp... THE END.

Tim Burton rules.

[lordrellik]

btw... maybe EARTH did have three moons millions of years ago... /ubb/wink.gif

[JoBlo]

Hey cool, a lot of good debates going on around here. I did however see this little tidbit on Dark Horizons today:

"FOX exec Bruce Snyder goes on the record to Zap2It.Com about the ending saying: "You're not supposed to be able to (explain it). If the truth be known, it wasn't really supposed to make sense. It was just supposed to go 'whoa,' make you think. Now is he in another world, did he go back in time, did he get forward in time? The reality is there's no firm answer to that. It's whatever you want it to be".

Oh well...I guess their plan worked because everyone's theory sounds pretty good to me...

[lordrellik]

I think that's probably true... but there is one thing I think we can all agree on.

He should have killed THADE... damn animal rights activists! KILL KILL KILL!!! That's the only way to SURVIVE!!!

TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN BABY!!!!!!!!

ok... i'm an idiot.

[New Hype]

I am not buying any of it. I felt the movie was weak and empty. The dialogue was trite and mundane full of cheap laughs. The ending could of been anything that they want it to mean to fit whatever they plan on doing for the sequel (or would it be a revamping of sorts of the past POTA movies.) Either way I will not be rushing out to see the so called explanation. I don't fault T. B. as much as I do the writers.

[ClarkGriswald]

Yeah, you're right, sorry about that. I forgot he doesn't exactly go back to 2029. That's what you get for zoning out for a milisecond.

Then again, at this point in time, a sequel could clear things up. I'd love to see a sequel. This time, eradicate the light humor and explain yourselves.

QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED
------------------------
1) Now how the hell is Davidson gonna get home with his ship in the shitter?
2) How did Thade go into the past?
3) How comes the 22nd century looks like the early 21st century? 9MM's, helicopters? Not laser guns?
4) Will Pericles save the day?!

Clark W. Griswald
"Get your damn human hands off me!"

[freesafetyblitz]

Good explanations Lord & Drew. After the opening weekend that POTA had, I guarantee there will be a sequel. In fact, that's exactly why Burton ended it the way he did.

[This message has been edited by freesafetyblitz (edited 07-30-2001).]

[Madhatter]

i really don't belive it was earth that leo crashed on. but thats a good theroy.


[This message has been edited by Madhatter (edited 07-30-2001).]

[lordrellik]

I have to admit the thing that has me stumped on my whole "EARLY EARTH" interpretation is the "three moons" thing. Maybe Earth used to have three moons or something. Maybe it's a mistake in the movie. Maybe my whole idea sucks.

But hey, it's just a movie... it doesn't have to make sense... and this kind of stuff has happened before, where whoever made the call on such things just throws a twist in there without an explanation (any of you guys know what was in Marsellus Wallus' briefcase that everyone wanted so badly??? If so you might want to ask Terintino cuz I heard he didn't even know).

But what JoBlo and all you guys suggesting a sequel have stated sounds about right.


I actually liked the way the first "Planet of the Apes" was written. The apes had rifles... and they walked more upright and like humans (which is partially because it's an old movie and special effects weren't as good as today), but the thing that made more sense in the original was HUMANS were considered primitive partially because they could not SPEAK. And you know what... when Attar said "GET YOUR FILTHY HANDS OFF ME YOU DAMN DIRTY HUMAN!" I was the only one in the theatre who laughed. Did anyone WATCH the original? At least its suprise ending made sense.


[This message has been edited by lordrellik (edited 07-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by lordrellik (edited 07-30-2001).]

[Madhatter]

have i seen the orginal planet of the apes? ... oh course i have i own all 5. i tought Tim burtons new one was just as good as the frist.

[lordrellik]

I think I'll make a movie with a really cool hero that everyone likes... and after he saves the day... he'll just be walking down the street and will fall down. Then a man will come up and check his pulse... look up at a bystander and say... "This man's dead."

Then the screen will go black and the credits will role...

Then everyone will argue over the ending and why the guy died... but there won't be any real reason... it will just be the way I ended the story. Who thinks that would suck?

[lordrellik]

better yet... THADE can walk up to him... check his pulse... and say "This damn dirty human is nearly DEAD!" Then as the camera backs away into a fade to black...you'll notice everyone on the street is a gorilla.

ooooooooooooooooooooooh...

then you guys can tell me what the ending to my movie meant. /ubb/smile.gif

[bob]

stop wasting brain power you guys.you're not supposed to understand the ending.the guy on darkhorizons said so.accept it.

p.s.for all you people saying thade traveled to earth cause leo's ship still worked:it had no fuel.and how did the apes get horses?

pota:B

[slowpoke2]

Was no one else mad that The fine chick kissed mark? I mean she didnt even go with him...

[ak]

bob...if the guy on Darkhorizons told you to jump off a cliff.....

[Watermelon Man]

For ClarkGriswold :

Question 3 -

The 22nd century for the apes is just like our begenning of the 21st century

Their evolution wasn't as fast as us ...

[max]

I don't think that even Tim Burton knows what the ending means. There is certainly nothing prior to the ending that would support any theory. I'm assuming that the screenwriters are hoping to explain it in the inevitable sequel.

I, for one, don't care what the ending means. I'm just glad that it ended. Blech!

[normjr]

I have read most of this board and while I ultimetly agree with Dr. Drew's theory is the best stab at an explination I think the darkhorse answer that it wasn't suppose to make sence was the truest thing I've read here. Any theory leaves plot holes and not all things can make sence.
I personlay don't have an opinion about the ned because when I saw it I was too busy laughing at it. and when ever I think about I get the giggles.

[wenbanb]

Here's my theory. I'll admit it is rather derivative, but definitely distinct from all others posted here...

Things we know:

1. The planet where the 3 ships crash is not earth. It has 3 satellites, a characteristic never shared with our planet.

2. The electrical storm operates on a first-in-last-out (FILO) basis. Pericles went in first, Leo[2029] second, and the ship third. They came out in the opposite order.

3. Gen. Thade comes to earth earlier than Leo.

Note that all of these are true regardless of whether Burton was "tricking us" with the chronometers in the ships.

Lets use #1 and #2 to explain #3.

From #2 we can interpolate that the FILO system of the electrical storm also operates as a LIFO system (last-in-first-out). This means that anything that went into the storm after Leo[2800] (at the end of the movie) would come out before him in time.

Now, the ending seems simple to me. Gen. Thade must have regained control of the colony in the future world -- apes became the dominant species again rather than choosing to share that mantle with their human companions. Future apes would have then had a virtual eternity to develop the technology to fly into the electrical storm and return to earth, allowing them to conquer earth with enough time to build a viable society complete with Lincolnesque monuments.

[freesafetyblitz]

General Thade must have landed via the storm on Earth, pretty far back in earth's history and "liberated" the apes. Now that I typed that, I'm wondering why I even took the time to restate the obvious. Anyway, I'm just wondering if Wahlburg returned to the same time that he left. I think he probably did, but since history was already changed, there was no space station for him there. I predict in the inevitable sequel, that the humans won't be able to talk, because the apes have barred them from learning to speak.

[Watermelon Man]

Am I the only one who doesn't want a sequel ?

[Bud_Fox]

***spoilers throughout*** I think they used the "oldest trick in the book"; throw in a non-sensible, non-explainable ending and people will talk. Just look at this topic.

I just saw the movie last night and I give it a b+. But in regard to the ending it's kinda' like advanced math where they give you an entire problem and leave out one key factor. No matter how you try you cannot solve an equation without all the values! The answer is: there is None.

But here are what I think are a few glaring facts after having just read every post including the link posted by ak.

1.Marky Mark did not land on Earth, primitive earth, whatever.
2. He did travel ahead in time initially and then back in time. I totally understand the argument for the electrical storm srewing up the clock and that not necceasarily correlating directly to the correct year, but I think that in the future (in this movie mind you) we are technologically advanced enough that the clock did read the correct time through the warp. Get it? Regardless for continuity of the movie I am pretty sure Burton showed us the clock to show us that he was going ahead in time and then back. I think that is the simple and correct answer /ubb/wink.gif
3. I like the theory that at the end he does not go back far enough in time and ends up on earth a few hundred years later than he left and that through genetic manipulation we made the apes too smart and with their strength and new found brawn they put Us in zoos. BUT THIS IS NOT SO BECAUSE WE SEE THAT THIS NEW ERA OF REALITY IS BECAUSE OF GENERAL THADE. Thus General Thade obviously must have somehow gone to earth. Or maybe there is a bizarro multi-dimensional thing going on and it is just coincidence that a General Thade also ruled on earth?????? Ahhhhhhhh!!!!

4. And this is the biggest monkey..err ape wrench thrown into the mix and was actually pointed out by my nephew- When Thade goes to see his dying father, his father tells him to break the red glass thing and inside he finds a Gun, which is the proof that Man once ruled Apes using that weapon. Now we assume that this weapon came from the crashed Oberon....or did it...Marky Marks Gun is a very advnaced looking Laser Gun and Hence you must conclude that all the Guns on the Oberon are of this advanced nature. Than why the fuck is the in the red thing a Primitive semi-automatic from the 1980's!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A prop mistake??? Mind fuck??

5. And finally my boy Loner makes the absolute BESTEST POINT of the ENTIRE FILM- What is Marky MArk thinking when He left that Piece of ASS behind! Oh my God what a Moron. Morale of the story if you leave a great piece of ass behind you're liable to regret it /ubb/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by Bud_Fox (edited 08-02-2001).]

[Angel_2nd]

You guys,
The ending of the movie takes some thought. This is what it is. The storm they went into was the meeting of parallel universes. And the moneky went into it first. Then the human, then the whole space station went looking for the human. These are two of the hundreds or thousands of possibilities of what could have happened when that space station went to look for the human. And in both of them, the genetically enhanced monkeys got out and took over the planet.
-Angel

[rgse]

The only possible conclusion to the movie's ending is a parallel universe.

As for the theory that they were all on Earth the whole time, that is absolutely ridiculous. Think about it, Leo took the pod and went TO Earth. OK, that means either of 2 things:

1- he knew how to pilot the pod back to Earth
or
2- the pod knew how to get back to Earth

In case 1, if he left the planet to go back to Earth, then that means he LEFT the planet AND went somewhere else.

In case 2, if the pod knew the path back to Earth, guess what would've happened? The pod would have given some message like "We are on Earth already" and wouldn't have moved at all!

As for the theory that Thade went to Earth and then took over: how is he going to take the Earth over by himself? Only 1 person or maybe 2 people could fit in the pod. The only way Thade could have transported enough of the apes to have a chance of overthrowing Earth is if once he got to Earth he convinced the government to send a transport ship back to his home planet and transport all the apes to Earth. How likely is that? Anyways, let's say that did happen, do you really think they would have been able to conquer the humans? Remember, although the apes are physically stronger, it is the humans who are smarter and extremely more technologically advanced. They would have crushed the apes.

[IIWII]

This is a spoiler
Sup i saw this movie twice and i found out in the begining he goes into the future and then lands on a planet(that planet is not earth) then at the end he goes back in time but this time he lands on earth and the mokeys rule that planet since linchons time i dont get it how did the apes go back in time to change history from another planet???
also general thay's father gives him an uzi (that gun could only come from earth how did he get it)

[IIWII]

I Dont get it
cause
marky goes in the future and lands on a planet (its not earth though) and at the end goes back in time and crash lands on earth and its ruled by apes how did the apes get from one planet to another and also go back in time when there was only 1 working space ship because the mother ship kinda looked destroyed so im not sure that would have flown

[Angel_2nd]

Look, here's how it works.
When the human(can't remember his name) left the planet and went into the storm he went into another alternate universe. Remember, the storm is positioned behind saturn, so from there, he just had to find the position of earth, using the pod, and then fly there. That is all it took because the storm was in this solar system. So when he got to earth, it was an alternate earth in which apes had evolved insdeat of humans.

[ShornEagle]

You know, I thought the ending of the movie was kinda fitting in a 'Twilght Zone' sort of way. Leo acts (and I use that word loosely) like a self-absorbed jerk throughout the film. He's even responsible for demise of the entire crew of the Oberon, and centuries of human enslavement. Then, in the end, he gets greedy. Despite what seems like a pretty sweet deal, a world apes and humans in harmony...not to mention Estella Warren, and, yes, Helana Bonham Carter...he's gotta risk it all for a 'chance to return home'. What does he get in return? A 'home' of pretty hostile apes. I just liked the irony in it all. I didn't care if it made much sense.

[Angel_2nd]

AK made a good point. He said that the ending was left open for personal interpretation. I agree with him, now that i think about it. I have heard so many good explanations and now i agree with AK and say that that is the most logical explanation.
-Angel

[Sphinx]

I don't think much thought was put into this ending, either. I think it was one of those, "Hey, wouldn't this look cool?" conclusions. Not something thought out on paper, with scientific cause and effects.

Leo takes a pod--not a spaceship--from the station and makes a very SHORT trip to the "planet" nearby. The station orbits SATURN. The planet he lands on is most definitely NOT Earth. Probably it is one of the moons of Saturn. And you see three moons in the sky (which could just be another three moons orbiting Saturn). It's definitely another world, not Earth.

It doesn't matter that wristwatches don't go backwards as one of the posters mentioned here. Leo's chronometer DOES--it is made to go forwards and backwards. And I do believe that the dates he is seeing are true, just as in Taylor's spaceship in the original POTA are true. There are many alternate Earth's, apparently, and the storm is filled with numerous wormholes/alternate realities. I believe Leo has gone into one of these alternate futures, around 2800--not into the past as some posters believe.

I also believe that at the end he does return into the past, close to his time. The last glimpse of the clock we get is in the 2100 A.D. range, but by the time he lands, it might actually be his true time 2029 AD... Or earlier. late 20th Century. We're not watching the chronometer every single second to know for sure...

I have a serious problem with a pod being able to traverse the immense distance between Saturn and Earth for this conclusion--in only a matter of minutes. At this point, as Leo descended towards what was obviously Earth, I knew the filmmakers had blown logic to the wind. I just sat back to see just how ridiculous they were going to get and to have fun with it. In my gut, I had a feeling it was a planet ruled by apes, despite all the "familiar" cars, buildings, etc. It wasn't the shock ending of the original POTA.

BTW, I LOVED the original POTA ending. Someone here said they hated it. I don't understand that... The first POTA had a lot more (logical) thought put into it. It fooled you into thinking it actually was another planet. Heston was so high and mighty throughout because he thought it simply another (very backwards) world... not his own. So to find the talking human doll, the remains of a spectacled man, and then the remains of Manhattan was quite a blow for both Taylor and audiences. It seemed much more thought out than Burton's "Wow, wouldn't this be cool!"--POTA ending.

Still, despite this remake being dumbed down for kids/entertainment value, it IS a fun watch. Musically and visually it's quite good! Makeup and costumes also very good. It just doesn't have the dark, brooding, cerebral feel of the original POTA.

[edonline]

Here's what I think happened:

Leo goes into the future through the storm to a different planet, in which the apes were descendants of the monkeys on crashed space station

At the end of the film, he travels back through time to Earth, where it appears that Thade has already conquered mankind

Meanwhile, somewhere in the very far future, even beyond where Leo initially landed, (since he was last seen alive in the bridge of the crashed space station), Thade discovers the secrets of the station and somehow manages to travel through time to Earth and changes history prior to Leo's arrival in DC

Even if he didn't intend to do so, Tim Burton set up an complex time pardox, and of course, left everything open for a sequel

[rgse]

Thade travelling back through time is absolutely ridiculous. Here's why:

1- the spaceship is essentially destroyed

2- Leo takes the only communicator with him

3- there's no way in Hell that Pericles would be able to help Thade

4- apes don't trust technology, so Thade wouldn't have either

5- and here's the big one, Thade is already branded a traitor! Don't you remember that he is caged while his former officer or whatever is calling him a liar and a traitor. Do you seriously believe that after that Thade would still have followers!? Get real, people.

[meccajay]

Yep, that old time and dimension trick Ala the horrible Lost In Space ending.....didn't work then, DOESN'T work now!!!

[freesafetyblitz]

rgse - I understand your reasons, but I'm sure the sequel will explain all that stuff. Of course it coulf have been someone else's likeness in place of the Lincoln memorial, but I thought it was Thade. In any case, somehow an ape went back in the past and changed Walhberg's earth's present.

[rgse]

Even if you buy the argument that an ape went into Earth's past and changed everything, there are still several large holes in that theory:

1- how many apes went? If it was just 1, how did he or she reproduce? Also, it is said that apes reproduce 4 times slower than humans, so imagine how long it would have taken to get some sort of sizable force. And even if they did have a sizable force, they have no technology.

2- humans reaction to a talking ape. Do you seriously think the world would have let a talking ape just do his thing? The government would have been all over him, studying him, questioning him, and more that we can't even conceive of.

3- how far back in time did the ape arrive? If he goes too far back, then humans will not have the technology to dedicate to the advancement of apes. Furthermore, why would they want to? If the ape arrived close to Leo's present time, how the Hell did they reproduce enough to take over the world?

4- Even if an ape did go back in time, do you seriously think they would have advanced along the exact same technological and social lines as the humans have?

This leads to the obvious conclusion that the ending was a parallel universe. If Planet of the Apes 2 goes against it, then Tim Burton is out of his mind.

[The Heart Collector]

Here's what happened:

Pfft.


* Seriously, let's stop trying to waste our minds in something that makes no real sense.

[APzombie]

***SPOILERS***
my theary is that when he went back to earth he went a couple thousand years forward instead of back, the 2026 is how many years he went forward. Therfor people and apes never got along after that and the apes won over again,they evolved the same way we did because of the moniter of all earths past events (as seen in the begining).

and if thats not a good enough theary than what is!

[rageagainstyou]

Leo probably travelled further in time to the same planet he got off in the first place

That´s why apes look more like humans in the end than in the beginning

BTW Who thinks the screenwriters copied Back to the future and put some ape story in it?

[EL_PHANTAZMO]

Assumong the earth he goes to in the end is from a parallel universe (which would be the only explanation) The similarity between the Apes life, the maneurisms and their technology is just WAY too close to our own today. I mean how can they're earth look exactly like ours???

They designed the exact same buildings (which don't resemble anything like the ones on the other planet), designed cars (which are way too small, and kind of useless considering how fast apes are), weapons, (which I thought they feared, but I might be wrong) and just the historical factor, the statue of Thade being exactly like Abe Lincoln. If the whole ape thing was possible, it just wouldn't be possible.
But the rest of the movie was great.

[max]

Whatever the ending means, it looks like he stole it. Read this: http://mrshowbiz.go.com/news/2001/8/smithvsburton080701.html

[Angel_2nd]

For god sakes. That is what the music and movie industry are based on. Not outright theft, but they are based on taking what someone else used and working it into your own. Writing, music, and film are all based on that. Rock took from blues, hard rock took from rock, and heavy metal took from hard rock. i won't get into this too much because that is not for the category, but it is just in response to Max's message.

[APzombie]

TIM BURTON does not steel! even though 90% of his films are based on other peoples ideas like batman, beetlejuice, planet of the apes, sleepy hollow, pee wees big adventure, and batman returns.

[APzombie]

anyways he knew kevin smith before this contriversy because smith wrote a superman script which burton after a while turned down. So this could be smiths revenge...

[lordrellik]

wenbanb's explanation makes perfect sense...

i like it better than my own!

everyone should read it and understand it... and believe it... and... uhh....

yeah

[ToasT]

The Planet of the Apes ending makes no sense whatsoever, lets just leave it at that. I mean if Thade actually made it to earth how could he spawn an entire race of apes? How could they create cars? How could they create Washington D.C. the same way it was created when humans ran the Earth? You could say,"Oh, Thade came to Earth during the time Washington D.C was already created!", but then how could he overrun the human race with an entire ape race that must have been created in just about a few years. It makes no sense whatsoever. Any way you look at it.

Which also gets me thinking, how come there was an entire race of Gorrillas created when there were no Gorillas on the Space ship.

Who brought the horses?

And that gun in the red thing was not an UZI. It was one of the futuristic guns used by Marky Mark, but just a different color.

And the idea of a series of parallel universes with different Earths is just improbable.

The ending was just a cheap rip off with no reason. Don't think about it. It hurts.

[lordrellik]

btw i too do not think it was Earth anymore, and everything that Sphinx said makes sense too... I even wondered how the hell Leo got back to Earth so fast... which was why I thought that the electrical storm was sending the pods/ships to Earth in different time spans. The problem with this is apparent as Earth has only 1 moon, Leo's ship was near Saturn or something like it (which is super far away from Earth), the research space-station was nowhere near Earth when they found the storm... but then... what the hell were all those "radio transmissions from Earth" all about... UGGHHH DAMN THIS DAMN DIRTY MOVIE. DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lordrellik]

You guys... check out wenbanb's explanation...

the whole FILO and LIFO argument about the electrical storm makes perfect sense...

Pericles goes in...
Leo goes in...
Space station goes in...

Space station comes out in the future...
Leo comes out and causes the rebellion further in the future...
Pericles comes out even further in the future and all the apes and people are like :O and amazed...

Leo goes back in the storm from the "other side" of it about to go back in time...

Thade was left alive... he apparently somehow won the war on his planet... saved the apes... became a legend... then the apes when they developed the proper technology hundreds of hundreds of years later in time, went through the electrical storm (which sent them hundreds of hundreds of years BACK in time) and went to earth and saved the apes there... all this was due to Thade... the ape's saviour... and so the Lincoln-like shrine is built...

Leo comes out of the storm but history is altered and apes rule the planet.

the end.

that's a cool explanation...
and makes okay sense... better than my explanation for sure...

then again... it's probably just an alternate universe suprise ending.

:P

[Irene Manor]

Initially when I saw the movie, I walked out thinking "Alternate universe - No questions." And in regards to it being ridiculous that there are parallel universes with different Earths: Uh. That's what a parallel universe is suppose to be. Something that is just like our universe, but different - Remember the Bizarro World in Superman? What about in Seinfeld? I mean, I'm not even going to comment that this idea is strange -- The movie was about a planet of the apes. That's why I crack up everytime someone asks, "What about the horses?" I think, "What about the six foot talking apes!?" Anyhoo.

After reading through all of this, I came up with another theory, and I DON'T CARE if you think it holds water, or not. Please spare me the arguements which I can come up with on my own. I haven't argued with anyone else's theory, so save your breath.

Okay: What if Apes were going to rule all along? What if Marky traveling through the worm holes had no effect on time, because time had already been drawn out. See, he starts off at an earlier time than when he ended, right? So, what if apes just gained control of the planet - with no interference. Perhaps the apes went nuts on the space station when they went to the future, cause they instinctively knew that they were in control. They could sense it. In other words, What if the apes gained control on their own (mutation - i dunno) and Mark just happened to skip over that "evolution" and run into the aftermath. If he had never been on the spaceship, or been in space, he would have been enslaved himself.
Did that come out to make sense the way I wanted it to?

[Jan]

I saw the movie last night. I couldn't get into it because the sound system in the theater was playing snap, crackle, pop - the quieter the dialog, the louder the interference (we got a free pass for another chance). I couldn't understand the ending, but thought it was because of the distracting technical difficulties.

I finally concluded that lordrellik's idea must have been correct, but I thought the planet was earth (didn't notice the moons, etc.) I really like wenbanb's LIFO etc.

I'm a little too uninterested to put it all together, but keep these tidbits in mind:
Thade's FATHER is the one who knew the original Oberon humans.
The gun relic may not be the only thing removed and hidden from the Oberon - there were many pods on board, the captain said he didn't want to lose another one.
Just because chimps were on board the Oberon, doesn't mean that there were no gorillas on the planet to begin with.
Remember, Leo was told that Thade would keep coming after him and would never give up.

[rgse]

Yeah, right. The simplest and most logical explanation is an alternate universe. The severely convoluted explanation is that it is the same universe. Sure, you can explain it away, but that just makes the whole premise ridiculous. Face the facts, it's an alternate universe.

[mattjk_17]

My own view, same as lordrellik's, on things is as follows:

1. Pericles goes through the storm first
2. Leo then goes after him
3. The Oberon gets through

They all came out in the opposite order that they went through, which means that the Oberon came through a long time before Leo and Pericles.

4. Pericles arrives on the planet and Leo goes home.
5. Years later, Thade and some apes somehow (advances in technology?) get to Earth.

The only thing I can think of is that not only did Pericles, Leo and The Oberon arrive on the planet in the opposite order they went into it in, but Leo and the apes got to earth in the opposite order they left the ape planet in.

If that doesn't end this debate I don't know what the hell will!!!

[rgse]

What will end the debate is that it is an alternate universe. Plain and simple.

[movieman0023]

There is one hole to everyone's theory! If the apes somehow got back to earth in any universe, and they did take over earth, there would be a problem. If they do this, then the people of earth would never be able to start the orignal planet of the apes becuz they wouldn't be around. Get it? There has to be humans who go through that storm to crash so the monkeys could get out. If the humans don't crash, the general would never be as evolved and he would never be able to go back to leo's earth! e-mail me about your replies! cmccarth@rcn.com

[mattjk_17]

Damn! I think he's got us all there!!

[Narrator]

Fuck that they just went back to a time after the space station had been built, Davidson had gone through and the ship had gone aftering him thus preserving the events on the planet of the apes and took over the future earth bcus marky mark had no way of controlling where he went back in time!!!

[Alf-Life]

Hmmm.. not sur about the alternate realities thing... but one suggestion that someone *did* make sounded interesting... and led me to two ideas...

(a) since it didn't take Marky Mark that long to fly 'back to Earth' at the end, perhaps he had gone in the future and landed on the same planet but in the future, and this would explain the humans and apes 'merging' and the monkeys looking more human-like.
However, that's probably wrong...since the dial at the end did, indeed go back in time.

(b) since the new apes on the new planet (earth?) at the end have followed in exactly the same footsteps as human evolution on Earth did, ie smae archictecture, police cars and design is identical... then this hints at either some sort of merger between humans and ape-folk in our past, or the apes somehow taking over from humans which led to the exact same technology.

However, there is that point about if a change in our past occured, there would have been no Marky Mark in the future - which, I hate to say it, does point to an alernate reality thing.
However, the ending probably means nothing, was thrown together and could even have been deliberate to confuse us.

Now, let's talk about the deep meanings behind the ending of Pokémon 3...

[Alf-Life]

OK, also, as well as my theory post above, I thought I should perhaps reiterate some FACTUAL points according to what I saw and have read here.

Part of the problem is mainly because the end wasn't meant to make sense, but also because people have seen the original and have preceding expectations...

-The dials on Mark's ship go forward in time at the start when he goes through the wormhole, and go back in time at the end. Whether or not dials would do this in real life is irrelevant, it obviously means something for them to have shown that, it wouldn't be a trick for them then to say "Aha... but you didn't know that dials get messed up when you travel through time, got ya!"

-There are 3 moons on the Ape Planet. Also, there are lots of trees and wooded areas.
The three moons point to another planet as Earth hasn't had 3 moons. Ever.
In fact, the only thing that throws the whole "it was Earth all along theory" out of the window is those damn three moons...

-The apes at the end look more 'human' and have developed in exactly the same way as humans, as though 'replacing' us... I mean even if the theory about apes going later on and taking over Earth is true - they could never have followed the exact same path of culture, clothing, vehicle deisgn and archicetcure. So, what does this mean?

-Thade. The big question and probably the biggest clue or red herring...
He replaced Abe Lincoln. Abe Lincoln was renowed for 'creating' America (I'm British so correct me if I'm wrong - heck, until I came here I didn't even know that statue was meant to be Lincoln...) - so therefore Thade is worshipped as beign a similar benefactor of the ape species.
Does this mean Thade travelled back to 'earth' later and took over, I don't think so, but I don't have any other good theories about this point.

-Thade's Father. He stated that all life on the ape planet originated from the Oberon, thousands of years ago.

-The ending before the ending; Thade would not be trusted anymore and a human-ape alliance was formed. However, Thade not dying kinda adds extra spice to other theories.

-The cop ending... if I recall, one ape takes a camera out and takes a picture of Marky Mark... this means that in this world there must either be no humans, or few humans, especially since now no slaves are visible and the apes don't seem so primitive.

Actually... that brings me to another [wild] theory - what if Marky Mark returned to the Ape Planet in it's future, where what happened was Thade was freed, redeemed himself and became the benefactor of the new species. As the humans and apes, ehem, merged... they had children together and over years and years the children weren't so ape-like, but also weren't so human... and as they developed, they grew just like humans have done here on earth.... argh, forget it, it was just some bullshite tagged on and doesn't really make sense. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Emailmanx1]

-The ending, no matter how you explain it doesn't account for why the General Ape's memorial looks exactly like the Lincoln memorial with the same clothing, hairdo, etc. It was just a twisted joke ending, which is funny yet lame at the same time. I'm kind of 50/50 on it.

-What about the Charleston Heston cameo, was that cool or what? It's been a while since I saw the first Planet of the Apes, did Heston also use that line ..."Damn them, damn them all to hell!" Was that at the end or something?

-In comparison, the old POTA had a better storyline, yet the actors just seemed like people in halloween costumes. In the new POTA the actors were great with the ape-like mannerisms, mating rituals, the one orangutan covering himself with flowers, etc. BUT the storyline was kind of sloppy.

[Horror whore]

DAMN!!!! This is getting long! Tim Burton better explain a little bit onthe DVD commentary...(If there is one)

[Mazaru666]

THIS POST IS LONG AND BORING

Ok, after spending the last 45 minutes reading all these posts I have to chime in and throw somemore cr@p onto the pile.

The ending should not be compared to the original. It does not make sense and probably, as some have suggested, thrown out there as a "let's end it with a cool mind trip". There is no logically answer to why marc landed where he did and why the Apes rule. However, there is no logic behind talking apes either.

Suspending logic -- that is one of those requirements one needs when watching some sci-fi movies. Suspend your logical thoughts and enjoy the ride of the story.

With that being said.....

Thade could not have gone to Earth. Fuel cells were gone on the ship. We see that when Marc stuns the apes.

Plus, Thade could NOT escape the control room in which he was locked. The panel is operated by a palm print reader. So unless some one flew back in time and let Thade out, he was doomed to a slow death.

If apes took over Earth in our past, then there wouldnt be a space station. Like going back and killing your mom before you were born paradox....

The Uzi that heston has throws a monkey wrench into the works. It would make sense that he got it from the space station. But like others have pointed out, why an uzi and not a laser? The previous humans on this planet ruled the apes until the apes took over? Nah...so how did humans get on this planet? If all the members of that space station died then there wouldnt be humans. So did some live and spawn other humans? That would explain the humans speaking english.

Alternate earth theory holds the best water.
But unless these apes develop so they have better limb mechanics, how did they eveolve so close to humans? Wouldn't they develop machines to suit their own body structure?
I guess they could have had their own Thade in that dimension. So that means it was not Earth as we (or Marc) knew it.

Which goes back to the beginning of this dopey post....
You can either try and analyze the flick and find holes in everything or analyze nothing and enjoy the film.

I unfortunately am runing the movie for myself by trying to understand it. Which means to me the movie failed in entertaining me. Movies should not leave you looking for answers and not being able to come up with any. No matter how many people try to reson it.

It was poorly written, but excellently acted though. Not enough to save it....

[daddiefatsacks]

look at what i have created....muhahahaha

[freesafetyblitz]

Dude, all this ending is supposed to mean is "SEQUEL" that's it!!

[Mazaru666]

Sequel? How are they going to get a sequel out of this worth watching?
MarkyMark becomes international ape underwear model?
His pod crashes and he's stuck on the planet. End of story. No sequel. Unless it's of the Apes studying and dissecting this "alien". Maybe it'll spawn an Ape X-Files or something.

[Delmore Schwartz]

It was a bit too obvious. I guessed it before the end of the movie. A tad to hard to belive too.

[Watermelon Man]

You guys are still talking about this a month alter ? Damn !

[Eelco]

I have just one thing to say! The ending was not possible and stupid. I liked the movie, but the ending was not necessary.

[Nick C]

The planet they land on is not earth (three moons!!).

General Thaid knows where the other pod is (in the water).

He uses this to travel through time and lands on earth and changes the destiny of earth. Hence the comment - General Thaid will never give up fighting you (or words to that effect) - given to Mark Wahlbergs character.

[The Heart Collector]

What I'm amazed at is that there were no new apes... that was a fucking waste of opportunity. Come on, not even a baboon or something?

[Narrator]

Marky Marks pod was fucked!!!!!!!! ok what if going through the worm hole had somehow made the space station, pericles, marky mark sort of immune to the changes in time? it works in my mind!!!!

u know wot wud b really fucking funny!!!! if time burton was sat reading all of these posts now and deciding in his mind which 1 made he most fucking sense so he can use it 2 make sum money off us sad bastards who crave a sequel to answer our questions about this pile of ape shit excuse the pun!!!

[redsox455penoev]

i'm new, and i just saw planet of the apes a few days ago, and i'm not sure if anyone still comes on this forum, but i want to discuss my take on the ending...

damn! what a confusing movie huh?

i enjoyed it though, and thought the ending was great, but it would have been better if Leo started screaming "DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!" right when he saw them all pull up to him.

now, assuming that the ending was meant to mean something and set up for a sequil,
this is the first time i've been able to have a chance to fit my thoery. its kind of stupid, but here goes:

humans and apes become friends at the end of the movie just before
Leo goes home. now, say that the FILA/LILA (first in last out, last in last out) thoery is true (which would be best to support).
okay lets say Thade dies in that space station room. monkeys (sorry, apes) co-exhist side by side, separate groups etc or whatever.. many years later, humans on that planet develop space science and are as advanced as in Leo's day. someone clones Thade who grows up like the asshole he was and starts a plan to take over earth by using a huge army of his apes and hijacking or stealing a time traveling ship and goes back in time using the black hole thing, he ends up being last in, first one out and with his army takes over earth and as a sick thing, defaced the lincoln memmorial and turns it into himself before he dies. then apes rule earth, not humans and thats when Leo comes back to present time.. how about it?

but damn it, that scene with Thade crying under the dashboard has to mean something! i think that scene is the missing link to figuring out the solution.

there must be something to this!
its something we are overlooking.
what about the horses!? how the hell are they on that planet? that leads me to wonder if maybe the horses are a clue, i mean, why use them and give them so much airtime when they mean nothing? i think possible that the horses were left over from another time travel or something like that!
it can't all be mistakes! how could a major movie studio like 20th century fox allow so many errors? so no! i will not buy the theory that the horses and the ending was all error and means nothing.

and finally, heres another quick thoery, which may be true, who knows.

look at the apes at the end. i think they sum everything up about their planet (or ours in the futurepast continuum)
the apes were surprised by Leo's landing (the cop held a gun pointed at him, and the cop on the motocycle made a face that was like "WOAH!" and freaked out. and the little boy (it looked like a little boy ape, but i oculd be wrong) snapped his picture with a curious look. this indicates that there are no humans at all on that planet! which can only mean that Leo landed on a PARALLEL universe earth! you may say, "but how can they have cars and all human technology and building etc." very simple, just replace the humans with the apes. of course this, like every mother-frikken thoery about this movie's ending has, it has holes.
(a) why not dogs or snakes instead of apes?
(b) how did thade get in it?

but it comes back to thade crying under the dash board after his temper tantrum.
that scene must mean SOMETHING!
man! i just love the ending though!
many of you may think that the ending is horrible because its plot is shit or whatever, but look what its done! its got all this thought about it and talking about it. if it ended with him finding that Calama or whatever ended up being his space station crashed, and the ending scene showed him wiping away the dust of the Calama sign and exposing "causion, live animals" and him saying "no!" and then cut to credits, what would we talk about?
that is a good question.

[rgse]

The only credible solution is a parallel universe. End of story.

[MovieLover]

if u remember there was pods inside the oberon ( delta pod, alpha pod ect. ) and general thade was last seen inside the oberon too. so he probably went inside one of them and travelled even far back than leo.

[rgse]

Okay.
How did he get out of the room?
How did he get to a pod?
How did he pilot the pod?
Assuming he did go further back in time on Leo's Earth, who did he reproduce with?
How long would it take for this new ape race, assuming humans would have let them thrive in the first place, to be able to take over the whole planet?

Plain and simple - it's a parallel universe.

[Bud_Fox]

I've got the Key! Dudes, fellow Schmoes, the key lies in the middle of the Movie when Heston has Thade break open that thing to reveal a Gun. That Gun is proof that they [the apes] were ruled by Humans. Unfortunately that Gun is from pre 21st century. That Gun did not come from the Oberon. That gun is from Earth pre Mark Mark's expedition by hundreds of years. Somehow this movie is linked to the original POTA's. In a subtle way this is a sequel whereas history is constantly repeating itself, and on the evolutionary timeline apes and man are constantly battling it out with the tides of power switching every so many hundreds of years!!!

[Bud_Fox]

p.s. on a side night Kudos to Mr.daddiefatsacks for starting another outstanding topic that has nonetheless taken on a life of its own.

heres to you big poppa http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Moviefreek]

I havn't read the load of posts here but here is my opinion:

After seeing the movie, i wish that it would have been set, like it was at the end. that woulda been shweet.

[Narrator]

this topic just goes round n round in fuckin circles!!!!!!!

[Magnolia_Fan]

I cant believe this chat is still going on!

Theres is only one solution, PARRARLELL UNIVERSE.

But maybe there isnt a right solution. It is just something Burton did to fuck wiv ppls minds.

Magnolia_Fan
http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[Narrator]

we've been there 2 many times magnolia 2 either argue or agree with u!

[wenbanb]

I can't believe people are still spewing this alternate universe crap. Look, the LIFO FILO explanation I posted over several months ago hasn't been refuted at all.

Of course it is POSSIBLE that it is an alternate universe, that theory is not falsifiable -- it cannot be proven false because you can simply declare any impropiety to be an artifact of the new universe. Take a logic class, and you will learn (although you don't seem real good at understanding new concepts) that theories that cannot be falsified should be rejected if some other possible solution exists.

It is also highly improbable that Leo would have stumbled upon an alternate universe so similiar to earth populated by the very same creatures he just dealt with.

Also, in an alternate reality so similar to our own, Thade would not exist yet. It seems the height of improbability to suggest that the ape who started the alternate earth civilization would share the same name by chance.

Lastly, if the space storm just spits anything that enters it out in alternate universes, then Pericles would not have come out in the same universe as Leo, who would not have come out in the same universe as the Oberon.

Go back and read my post which neatly fits everything together.

As for the time paradox, well thats been handled by years of discussion about the nature of time.

[rgse]

Ummm... no. The whole LIFO argument makes no sense. And it doesn't even begin to answer any of the criticisms of it.

Parallel...parallel...parallel. Look it up in the dictionary. It'll explain all the similarities that you can not comprehend.

[mattjk_17]

I finally decided to return and see what has become of this topic (after several months) and I still don't agree with rgse's theory of the parallel universe, it just doesnt work out for me... ok I've said what I had to, uhhh bye!!!

[FreakArtist]

If you didn't understand the ending (which was pretty easy to understand) you should rent the movie next week. It,ll be released on the 20th at the same as The Grinch. I'll rent The Grinch 'cause I haven't seen it yet.

[dicaprio_travolta_man]

Ok I have only one thing to say, if you are one of the people that are going to rent the DVD to hear what Tim Burton say's in the commentary at the end, I do not recommend getting the DVD just for that reason... Anyway I bought Apes today on DVD and after i watched the film I listened to Burtons commentary about the ending, and let me tell you he does NOT explain the ending in any way he just says that it seemed right to him, and that it was logical...... He does mention a sequel though!!

[mixx3113]

Obsevations related to questions I've read:
1. How are there horses? Couldn't they just have evolved?
2. What planet does Leo land on? I think it could be an alternate Saturn. Saturn has more than 3 moons and you may not have seen the others.
3. The gun Thade's dad has is from the Oberon.

I totally believe WENBANB's LIFO theory and it would explain how Thade gets to the alternate earth before Leo. It must be an alternate earth otherwise Leo would never have been born,gone to space, yada-yada-yada. The monkey's could have realized that they need to embrace technology to evolve any further. They also might have realized that man had much to offer, after see how far they were behind technology. so they try to emulate man.

as for alternate universes, this could all be cleaned up with a little help from our quantum physics cookbook. Imagine a bunch of alternate universes like pages in a book. The electromagnetic storm is the book, or the portal to the universes. Now draw any kind of line across the pages. All the pages contain the line, but not necessarily at the same time or place. There are common elemants in all alternates. examples; beginning of life, creation of fire, wars, revelutions, things that change mankind. Major events may happen, they may not. When they're suppose to or later in time. what happens from there no one knows.

So... Leo, Oberon and Chimp fly thru strom to alternate planet. Ape's evolve from Oberon, Leo finds Oberon, Chimp shows-up like prophecies said. Leo leaves planet and fly's back into storm, but travels to a third planet. Thade somehow escapes, recovers/uses abanded Oberon pod to follow Leo or there is already a Thade there and he just evolves. A CIVIL WAR erupts on planet and apes end up in control.

The questions I have are:
1. If I make sense, could Thade have picked the right "worm hole"?
2. What of the prophecy? Was there already a chimp there?
3. Why does the chimps pod land and Leo's always seem to crash?

[joemama]

this is fuked

the logic is totally outta wack

its impossible to go into the future and change the past

you arent gonna figure it out, neither am i, until you see the next movie, which will probably have apes being killed by a oversized breed of racoons leading to another paradoxal, infinite loop, bull$hit storyline

only possiblity: \\ universe

[stefanb]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by joemama:

the logic is totally outta wack
its impossible to go into the future and change the past
</font>

Not according to Einstein...

"The distinction between past, present, and future is an illusion; however persistent"
-Albert Einstein

...cue the freaky music, now....

[DarrenC]

Hi folks!

I just watched this movie on DVD last night and was so confounded by the ending I turned around and watched the whole thing again, looking for hints and clues. I found this forum while desperately trying to make some sense of this. I have read every post here and all of the theories are defensible to differing degrees. I do not yet have a theory of my own, but here are a few of my personal thoughts and observations.

- I believe that this movie was intended to have a sequel from the inception. This was a big-budget blockbuster that was bound to have a huge following due to the success of the 1968 film. For this reason I do not believe in plot holes or production mistakes. I believe that the sequel will have an explanation and the explanation can be devined from the scenes in this movie.

- I believe that the antique gun that Thade's father gave to him is nothing other than an old rusty version of Leo's lazer gun.

- I believe that there is great significance in the fact that the electrical storm trapped every single electronic transmission that earth has ever generated. One could learn an awful lot about technology and advancement with a resource like that. Thade's father has already told him that technology was the key to power.

- There has to be a reason that before Pericles is sent out in the pod, mention is made that he is about to be a father and one of the females is pregnant. Mention is also made of the female being the aggressor in the relationship.

- We are shown that Thade knows where Leo's pod crashed, even kills two apes to keep it secret, yet nothing evolves from that discovery. Also, Just before Leo is leaving he catches the slave trader Trying to pocket something and tells him to keep it. Is it possible that it's a manual as to how to fly the Pod?

- Although the Oberon is out of fuel, The internal systems in the ship should work forever due to the nuclear power cell, and Thade is locked in the control room with the computer system.

- I personally think that the answer will derive from the time-travel aspect and not a parallel-universe argument. I personally feel the parallel universe is too easy a way to answer all of the questions with one broad stroke of the brush. If this indeed turns out to be the answer, I will be terribly disappointed in a "the whole season was a dream" kind of way.

Any fresh ideas are certainly welcome. I'm hoping this topic will be revived now that more people are going to be seeing the movie and more people will get a chance to watch it multiple time looking for clues.

Take Care,

Darren

[This message has been edited by DarrenC (edited 11-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DarrenC (edited 11-28-2001).]

[DarrenC]

UPDATE

Last night I took a closer look at the DVD, and inside the case there is an insert, complete with daigram, that completely supports the LIFO/FILO theory and indicates this is what they were going for.

The only question now seems to be how did Thade get to earth and what happened when he got there?

[fredd521]

MarkyMark trapped thade in a space ship didnt he? thade probably somehow got it to work.

[Narrator]

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WILL SUM1 CLOSE THIS FUCKING TOPIC!!!!!!!!

ok fredd521, that spaceship was a relic im suprised the inside was as good as it was!! no way that cud b flown!!!!!!!!

erm next point, marky mark when he signed the contract im pretty sure signed on for a sequel as well!

and we finally hav proof about the LIFO/ FILO theory!

the sequel will no doubt explain what happened 2 earth during the rule of thade, so lets no specify lets just wait and c what attempted mindfuck the writers can cum up with 4 the sequel!

i say we close this damn inferno topic b4 we go round in the neverending circles another 500 times!!!!!!!!!

[Magnolia_Fan]

I AGGREE NARRAOTR!!!
this topic is just going ROUND AND ROUND AND ROUND in circles. People are just bringing backthings that were brought up 90 odd posts ago, there is even sum posts by me when i had a different username back in summer!!!

Lets put an end to all this maddness

Magnolia_Fan
http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[Actuary]

Kinda spooky heh? Goes round-and-round just like the movie.

[Jubs]

Hehe this is my second post but my first was in the wrong section.

Okay this is what I take from the movie. I don't think anyone has come up with this yet so try and find a flaw.

I will start from the beginning. During the electromagnetic storm the small pod goes into the future. The big ship in orbit in an attempt to save him after he becomes lost also gets transported to the past before and advanced life (or humans) have formed yet on earth. So the crash in the past changes the future. So when he appears in the future everything is changed and the apes rule.

That is just to make sure everyone understands the beginning. Now try to follow me here.

So he fixes the future and makes it so apes and humans can live in harmony. Well that is great. But what he messes up in is that he goes back in the past. What he doesn't realize is in the past the big ship (the one in orbit) has still crashed years before. He cannot undo that now because it has already happened. The only way he could stop it is go way in the past before there was life and somehow stop it. Now here is one more thing to consider. Since he has gone in the past who is to say the apes future (from the point when the big ship crashed) didn't end up different. There is a million different things that could have happened. They seem to live in a completely different world not to much unlike ours. Maybe that is just coincidence that they ended up like us. I can't really think of anything different but the theory that the future changed. Otherwise when he went back the time would have been more or less like it was when he landed on the planet of the apes before. It would not have had all the advanced technology like we do.

Now you may be saying what about that general thade stuff. Well maybe in this new present general thade was still born. Maybe he did something great that he was honored for. Maybe it has nothing to do with the planet of the apes he was just on.

Now I hope this all makes sense to you. Here is a couple of things to think about. On the lincoln like statue the ape possesed human like qualities (notice the hair most of all). The apes also seemed to walk abit like humans. They also seemed to be a tad smarter (hence the helicopters and the guns). Well maybe the apes cross breaded with the humans in the new future instead of dominating them. That would give them their human like qualities but still some looks of the apes. Now you might be thinking humans could not mate with apes. Well it is a movie lets just say they could. Now maybe the apes didn't breed with them but the future just ended up different who knows.

Some more stuff. There are flaws in all the other theories. If the general thade ever got free how would he get a working ship and learn how to operate it. Plus don't forget that if he would have done that we would have brought all his advanced technology with him. (the guns and spacecraft) This was not potrayed in the end of the movie. The apes were more rather like our present.

This is all bases on the fact that the ship date is correct. Yes it doesnt make sense that it would work but again its a movie. People say he went in the future by accident. Wrong the date on the ship said he went in the past. Im pretty sure its right too..... why would they put it in the movie just to confuse you. That isn't logical.

Enjoy.

[Jubs]

Common read my theory!

[Weapon X]

Having just seen PoTA myself, here is my interpretation of the ending:

To believe this, you have to completely disregard whatever it read on the spaceship's digital clock. Considering Leo was getting shot through a time portal, his clock should have kept running in real time anyhow...so anyway:

Leo thinks he is sent forward in time, when in fact, he was sent backward. And the Oberon, when it went into the magnetic storm after him, got sent back several thousand years earlier. From what ended up happening, the Oberon landed in time sometime between the end of the dinosaurs, and the beginning of the humans, when it would seem the planet was uninhabited. Their getting sent to that time altered the course of evolution on planet Earth, and the super-intelligent apes from the Oberon evolved to take over the planet. Humans eventually came along like they always did, and the apes, remembering the oppression they faced under their rule, made sure they didn't rise to power.

Flash forward thousands of years to when Leo crash-landed, in an era that I suppose was the Egyptian Empire-esque period for the apes. He helps turn the social system around, and traps the evil Thade inside the Oberon ruins. So after his appearant victory, Leo hops into the space pod and heads back into the storm, thinking he's going back in time to the present day, when really he's going FORWARD to the present day. However, by then, evolutionary history had already been changed by the Oberon's crashing, so the world is still overrun by the apes.

As for Thade's statue in the Lincoln Memorial, here's what I think happened: after Leo left for the future, Thade found a way to escape the Oberon ruins, and with the help of the gun he was trapped with, he retakes control of the army and the planet, and takes his revenge on the humans, wiping them all out to the very last. Thus, he is forever hailed as a hero. After all, history is written by the winners.

[rgse]

No, it was an alternate parallel universe.

[Ganther]

OK kind of the same theory everyone is posting but a little different.

Start of movie is 2029 Marky Mark goes into the cloud and crashes into a marsh on the planet of the apes (not earth it has 3 moons stated in earlier post)date is something like 2600 or greater close to 1000 years from when the big ship crashed. movie goes on Thade's dad introduces Thade to human technology (He is the only one that knows about the crashed ship until the end). Near the end Thade is locked in the crashed ship Marky Mark takes off date now is 2155 heading is earth but there is still the one ship on the planet of the apes in the marsh or the pods in the crashed big ship. Thade uses one of them to escape beats Marky Mark to earth by about 100 some odd years (Which is still after 2029 when the movie started) some how Thade was able to take over earth and reproduce other apes either with humans or some other way.

Or it could just be that the original move had a heck of a shocking ending with the statue of liberty sticking out of the sand and Tim Burton wanted to try to create a shocking ending of greater or equal value instead just caused confusion with everyone

[Magnolia_Fan]

EVERYBODY!!!
i just want to make it clear that IT IS NOT EARTH!!!!!
it is another planet
NOT EARTH!!!!
IT HAS THREE MOONS FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!!!

[Narrator]

FOR FUCKS SAKE EVRY PERSON WHO IS MAKIN A POINT LISTEN 2 ME!!!!!! U R NOT MAKING A NEW POINT!!!!!!!
UR POINT HAS BIN DUN B4!!!!!
WE HAV PROVED UR "ARGUMENT" WRONG!
on behalf of the topic itself i am pleading close me!!!!!!!

[Narrator]

FOR FUCKS SAKE EVRY PERSON WHO IS MAKIN A POINT LISTEN 2 ME!!!!!! U R NOT MAKING A NEW POINT!!!!!!!
UR POINT HAS BIN DUN B4!!!!!
WE HAV PROVED UR "ARGUMENT" WRONG!
on behalf of the topic itself i am pleading close me!!!!!!!

[Narrator]

FOR FUCKS SAKE EVRY PERSON WHO IS MAKIN A POINT LISTEN 2 ME!!!!!! U R NOT MAKING A NEW POINT!!!!!!!
UR POINT HAS BIN DUN B4!!!!!
WE HAV PROVED UR "ARGUMENT" WRONG!
on behalf of the topic itself i am pleading close me!!!!!!!

[nehal]

i just saw the movie 2 days ago

Let me say something on the '3 moons' theory, i can almost guarantee that the 3 moons meant it was a different planet, i dont think it is because earth will have 3 moons in the future in this movie ... the odds of Burton going for this theory are so low that its ridiculous that some of you suggest it..

as for the time thing that many of you were talking about, the same deal, we saw the clock go forward in time when he went to the POTA and backwards on his way back, again i think thats what Burton was going for..

some of you suggest that the clock was just messed up and he actually went back in time to POTA and forward in time when returning to earth... there is a small possibility this is true, but again i very much doubt it...

i think for the ending, the FILO/LIFO theory (whoever said it) sounds the best to me, we'll find out when the sequel comes out (if there is one)

Narrator: Take it easy, loosen' up, calm down, and let people post their opinions.

[Narrator]

Nehal it is exactly people like u that I'mmakin points about, this is not a personal attack it is merely an example

you have made no new points!!!!!!

your points have been made before

and unless sum1 closes this they will be made again!

[TimBurtonSUX]

Ok, ok... I waste a fucked hour to read ALL your comments about this "amazing" movie.
Well, what can I say that nobody say before...
First at all, I have to say that Tim Burton try to make an ending different... Like the First Planet of The Apes. No ones know what Taylor be able to find at the end of his travel... The best ending of the all Planets of the Apes.
So Tim Burton, like he always try to do, make that "unpredictable" end of the movie.
To me, was the most vacuum, stupid and Tim Burton likes, ending... Nothing more. There is no secrets. He "try" to surprice to all viewers, and as you see, we talk about it...
Warner Bros, say "we need make money, fast and easily... Make a movie that was an success before now, and add some visual effects. Ok, who's the most cheaper director outside?. Tim Burton?.
Tim Burton top 4:
1 Batman $251,188,924
2 Batman Returns $162,831,698
3 Planet of the Apes $153,285,339
4 Sleepy Hollow $101,071,502
Ok, lets make MONEY!"
Thats the true, if you don't like we can talk about thats well knowed theories:
1. The Theory of LIFO (I don't likes acronym), Last In First Out, its good...
#1 monkey come to storm
#2 own hero
#3 space station

Diference of time between #1 and #2 was few secons. Diference of time #2 and #3 was minutes. The #3 come to that planet more close to own present. #2 come to the future and #1 come so close to #2...
Remember that storm will go about 16:00 (local hour). The differences of times its the problem of this theory. If Thade come to the future to modify his pass, when he is available to do that (with any pod out there) the storm was go away. If the Apes make the technology to fly and come to the pass to modify it, they need a storm like we talk about... Another storm in the future? With Tim Burton anything is possible...
2. Parallel universe, that's possible, but think about it... The Apes make the same technology that humans at the same time?
3. Back to the future 2 Concept. Thats good too. He jump to another present. Thats theory I like. But its the same that 2nd theory. The Apes make the same technology and can communicate via radio with the pod of own hero?. How its that?. It's a Tim Burton Movie, remember?.

Anyway, this movie suxx if you compare with the original. This movie has no sense, nothing but the money.
Have good make ups, the special effect are all bads, good color but nothing. There is no history behind, like the first ones.
A sequel?. SURE!. Tim Burton know how make money, and the major movies companies know that.

[This message has been edited by TimBurtonSUX (edited 12-18-2001).]

[Irene Manor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TimBurtonSUX:
Ok, ok... I waste a fucked hour to read ALL your comments about this "amazing" movie.
Well, what can I say that nobody say before...
First at all, I have to say that Tim Burton try to make an ending different... Like the First Planet of The Apes. No ones know what Taylor be able to find at the end of his travel... The best ending of the all Planets of the Apes.
So Tim Burton, like he always try to do, make that "unpredictable" end of the movie.
To me, was the most vacuum, stupid and Tim Burton likes, ending... Nothing more. There is no secrets. He "try" to surprice to all viewers, and as you see, we talk about it...
Warner Bros, say "we need make money, fast and easily... Make a movie that was an success before now, and add some visual effects. Ok, who's the most cheaper director outside?. Tim Burton?.
Tim Burton top 4:
1 Batman $251,188,924
2 Batman Returns $162,831,698
3 Planet of the Apes $153,285,339
4 Sleepy Hollow $101,071,502
Ok, lets make MONEY!"
Thats the true, if you don't like we can talk about thats well knowed theories:
1. The Theory of LIFO (I don't likes acronym), Last In First Out, its good...
#1 monkey come to storm
#2 own hero
#3 space station

Diference of time between #1 and #2 was few secons. Diference of time #2 and #3 was minutes. The #3 come to that planet more close to own present. #2 come to the future and #1 come so close to #2...
Remember that storm will go about 16:00 (local hour). The differences of times its the problem of this theory. If Thade come to the future to modify his pass, when he is available to do that (with any pod out there) the storm was go away. If the Apes make the technology to fly and come to the pass to modify it, they need a storm like we talk about... Another storm in the future? With Tim Burton anything is possible...
2. Parallel universe, that's possible, but think about it... The Apes make the same technology that humans at the same time?
3. Back to the future 2 Concept. Thats good too. He jump to another present. Thats theory I like. But its the same that 2nd theory. The Apes make the same technology and can communicate via radio with the pod of own hero?. How its that?. It's a Tim Burton Movie, remember?.

Anyway, this movie suxx if you compare with the original. This movie has no sense, nothing but the money.
Have good make ups, the special effect are all bads, good color but nothing. There is no history behind, like the first ones.
A sequel?. SURE!. Tim Burton know how make money, and the major movies companies know that.

[This message has been edited by TimBurtonSUX (edited 12-18-2001).]</font>


Thank for comment.

[dicaprio_travolta_man]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TimBurtonSUX:
[B]Ok, ok... I waste a fucked hour to read ALL your comments about this "amazing" movie.
Well, what can I say that nobody say before...
First at all, I have to say that Tim Burton try to make an ending different... Like the First Planet of The Apes. No ones know what Taylor be able to find at the end of his travel... The best ending of the all Planets of the Apes.
So Tim Burton, like he always try to do, make that "unpredictable" end of the movie.
To me, was the most vacuum, stupid and Tim Burton likes, ending... Nothing more. There is no secrets. He "try" to surprice to all viewers, and as you see, we talk about it...
Warner Bros, say "we need make money, fast and easily... Make a movie that was an success before now, and add some visual effects. Ok, who's the most cheaper director outside?. Tim Burton?.
Tim Burton top 4:
1 Batman $251,188,924
2 Batman Returns $162,831,698
3 Planet of the Apes $153,285,339
4 Sleepy Hollow $101,071,502
Ok, lets make MONEY!"
Thats the true, if you don't like we can talk about thats well knowed theories:
1. The Theory of LIFO (I don't likes acronym), Last In First Out, its good...
#1 monkey come to storm
#2 own hero
#3 space station

Diference of time between #1 and #2 was few secons. Diference of time #2 and #3 was minutes. The #3 come to that planet more close to own present. #2 come to the future and #1 come so close to #2...
Remember that storm will go about 16:00 (local hour). The differences of times its the problem of this theory. If Thade come to the future to modify his pass, when he is available to do that (with any pod out there) the storm was go away. If the Apes make the technology to fly and come to the pass to modify it, they need a storm like we talk about... Another storm in the future? With Tim Burton anything is possible...
2. Parallel universe, that's possible, but think about it... The Apes make the same technology that humans at the same time?
3. Back to the future 2 Concept. Thats good too. He jump to another present. Thats theory I like. But its the same that 2nd theory. The Apes make the same technology and can communicate via radio with the pod of own hero?. How its that?. It's a Tim Burton Movie, remember?.

Anyway, this movie suxx if you compare with the original. This movie has no sense, nothing but the money.
Have good make ups, the special effect are all bads, good color but nothing. There is no history behind, like the first ones.
A sequel?. SURE!. Tim Burton know how make money, and the major movies companies know that.

[This message has been edited by TimBurtonSUX (edited 12-18-2001).][/B[[qoute]

Ok before I say what I'm about to say, let me tell you that I mean no disrespect towards you. But, that last message you just posted gave me a fucking headache, I didn't understand a word of it. But hey you tried and that's all that counts, so it's all good.

[FLYIN BRIAN]

Remember those skits they used to do on SNL with Tarzan, Tonto, and the Frankenstein Monster? For some reason, those have leapt to mind....

[TimBurtonSUX]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Ok before I say what I'm about to say, let me tell you that I mean no disrespect towards you. But, that last message you just posted gave me a fucking headache, I didn't understand a word of it. But hey you tried and that's all that counts, so it's all good.</font>
You don't know the effort that cost to me write that text... I don't write that in Hungarian ... May be yes... I hope that you are an English (major teacher) and can correct or interpret my poor comment.
Apologies for may lame comment...
I want see you write in another language that you DON'T SPEAK.
You piece of SHIT...
Sorry I don't know what I wrote...




[This message has been edited by TimBurtonSUX (edited 12-21-2001).]

[TimBurtonSUX]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FLYIN BRIAN:
Remember those skits they used to do on SNL with Tarzan, Tonto, and the Frankenstein Monster? For some reason, those have leapt to mind....</font>

Let me guess... You was Tonto?
For some reason, those have leapt to mind

[tuberide]

hi folks,

i'd just like to say that i believe in the FILO theory and also for all of those who think that the plot is full of holes and that the movie sucked because of this-you are incorrectly assuming that tim burton is an idiot and a sell-out. in fact, he is a very talented/experienced writer/director and i firmly believe that every aspecta nd nuance of this film was exactly as planned by him. and will fit together perfectly to tell a truly intruiging and plausible(if you believe in quantum physics) story of a timeless power struggle between almost identical species. also, my brain hurts.

[joe polimeni]

Ok. I think I have the ending figured out. Forget about going back in time because that's highly improbable from a scientific perspective. So, in chronological order...1. Leo goes into the time warp storm after the monkey 2. nuclear war destroys earth while Leo's crewmates were looking for him(speculation, but it fits)3. the Oberon ship crashes to earth years later to a barren earth 4.In this wild post nuclear earth, humans from the ship get taken over by the monkeys on the ship; the monkeys further evolve(remember they are genetically altered so that explains how they eventually learn to speak English) 5.Leo comes out of the time warp and lands on earth several thousands years later 5.The monkey lands a few days later ( probably caught in the same time warp wave which explains their close proximity in landing around the same time)6. When Leo leaves in the pod; he goes ahead in time a few hundred more years and once again lands on earth. 7.After Leo left, Thades licked his wounds and eventually won the war with the humans. However, remember that in the film, these apes are not creative. Therefore, all their culture derived from images of earth up to 2020 bouncing in that time warp storm thing. Remember, those images were likely stored in the ruined ship's computers. I can explain 2 small conflicts 1) time going backwards in the pod reflects screwed up readings and 2)the 3 moons could easily be some futuristic atmospheric optical illusion. For example,a fata morgana or sun dogs. I'm interested if there is a flaw in this argument.

[This message has been edited by joe polimeni (edited 12-29-2001).]

[This message has been edited by joe polimeni (edited 12-29-2001).]

[Weapon X]

Nuclear war, huh? Never figured to work that into the equation. Interesting theory, joe polemini; I like it. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[DashK]

Ok I see a lot of very creative explanations on what the ending of this movie means. Some are great while others seem way off to me. So I'll write down what I think.

First off, there is one thing everyone must understand, the POTA's in the Burton film is NOT Earth. Earth could never, ever have more than one moon, and the Oberon Captain said that the planet they crashed on was uncharted, end of story.

Also one thing I don't see many people taking note of, is at the beginning of the film. When Leo goes into the Time Storm after Pericles, he see's a "pod" appear out of a wormhole (like it just made a time jump from somewhere) and then he see's the pod dissapear again.

Now when Leo first jumped, he jumped twice, he first got sucked into a wormhole, appeared in space somewhere and his ship was non functioning (assuming because it ran off the Oberons power), he then got sucked up again and appeared at the POTAs where his ship regained power (because the Oberon was there).

Now it's safe to assume that when Leo went into the storm after Pericles, Pericles had already time jumped and was gone, the Pod Leo saw appear and dissapear was not Pericles.

I can see it as being 2 things, either Leo was seeing himself in Pericles own pod when he time jumped at the end of the film, or it was another pod.

It could have been someone from the POTAs using Leo's repaired pod to time jump, it could have been someone escaping in a pod as the Oberon was crashing and got sucked into a wormhole, or there could have been more working pods somewhere on the POTAs (there were many more in the Oberon). As the Oberon was crashing people could have used some of the pods to escape, and land on the planet with them intact.

Also, unless I am mistaken, Leo's communicator was STILL in the room Thade was locked in, giving him full access to the Oberons computer and databanks. When Leo left the POTA's, he used Pericles's communicator that was in his pod already.

One thing is for certain though the POTAs and Earth were seperate planets, even if the Earth Leo lands on in the end of the film is in an Alternate Dimension/Timeline.

Also another note I found interesting. Pericles went into the storm, then Leo, then the Oberon. Oberon came out first, Leo and Pericles both came out LONG after the Oberon, both within days of each other.

So at the end of the film, Leo goes thru, if someone else would have went thru after him, it's safe to assume they would have come out within days before Leo, if a 3rd person had went thru, they would have come out thousands of years before any of them (if you compare with the 3 from the beginning of the film). I don't know how to take this, but just making a note.

Anyways I thought the movie was awesome, and I hope they do a sequal somehow.

[This message has been edited by DashK (edited 01-18-2002).]

[joe polimeni]

In response to DashK, I can't really disagree with his hypothesis but I can't concur with the catagorical exclusion that POTA cannot be earth. I think when you introduce a fictitious gigantic unpredictable electromagnetic thingy into the solar system, all bets are off. I don't know, perhaps, the planet's orbits got all rearranged like some cosmic wormhole planet shuffle and that explains the multiple moons. I'm gonna side with the late Carl Sagan on this one...planets with life on them are probably out there but very likely rare. As for the "uncharted" comment, wouldn't earth seem that way many years after total nuclear destruction. Maybe Oberon's crash on the planet happened when the crew was drunk and they never saw earth's contours from way up in space - or, there was some cosmic fog that day - or, cosmic gooey stuff got all over the windows - or, that gooey stuff can be flubber... there's a sequel!

[Jubs]

Okay then disregard my theory. If the planet had three moons it cannot be earth. What probably happened is he warped through time and space to a different planet. When he tried to go to the future again it happened but he remained in the same space. The apes used the info in the oberon to get out technology and mimic our society. That seems the most logical.

The weird thing about it all is really.... how would those clocks in the pods work. That is basically impossible for it to just determine the date. But since it's a movie and anything is possible.... just pointing out a flaw.

[codeWarrior]

Having read a number of posts it appears that a number of people feel that because they do not understand the ending there must be an error, or the clock was not working correctly, or the ending was included just to confuse us.

This may have also been my oppinion except for one fact - This film was directed by Tim Burton.

Burton is one of the greatest film makers in the world and in none of his earlier films have I ever seen anything included that was an error or put in the film without a very good reason. Nor do think he would want to delibratly mislead us with the clock. Finally I believe his will make sense, with no holes in the plot, when revealed.

Having established this fact, I would like to congradulate him on making an ending that is so hard to work out.

As for what I believe happened is what wenbanb posted on 07-31-2001 and shown below.


"Things we know:

1. The planet where the 3 ships crash is not earth. It has 3 satellites, a characteristic never shared with our planet.

2. The electrical storm operates on a first-in-last-out (FILO) basis. Pericles went in first, Leo[2029] second, and the ship third. They came out in the opposite order.

3. Gen. Thade comes to earth earlier than Leo.

Note that all of these are true regardless of whether Burton was "tricking us" with the chronometers in the ships.

Lets use #1 and #2 to explain #3.

From #2 we can interpolate that the FILO system of the electrical storm also operates as a LIFO system (last-in-first-out). This means that anything that went into the storm after Leo[2800] (at the end of the movie) would come out before him in time.

Now, the ending seems simple to me. Gen. Thade must have regained control of the colony in the future world -- apes became the dominant species again rather than choosing to share that mantle with their human companions. Future apes would have then had a virtual eternity to develop the technology to fly into the electrical storm and return to earth, allowing them to conquer earth with enough time to build a viable society complete with Lincolnesque monuments. "


Out of all the theories I have read this has the least amount of holes and is the simplest, therefore, I think the most likely.

comments by some other peole such as parallel universes are out of the question because there was no indication of such. Tim Burton only indicated time travel.

Remember - A great film maker, like Burton, makes sure all the clues are in the film so that you can work out the twist. Fanciful ideas that are not hinted at in the film are very unlikely.