The Dream Master

[X-Nightcrawler]

I just rewatched part 4 of the NOES series and I must say, wow. I hadn't noticed just how good this movie is until now. Here are a few things that got me.


The plot. The idea behind this movie is scriptually brilliant. Part 3 had the clever idea of pulling someone into your dreams and having powers in your dreams but never properly added both concepts into one. Part 4 does that by adding the idea of our main collecting the powers of her downed friends. This isn't just a brilliant concept, but it's brilliantly put on screen. The way she gets a gift that symbolizes a friend (nun-chakus, wristband, bug-thing) makes a very interesting visual. Add to that making our main a day dreamer. Cleverness abounds.
Alice. Nancy was a fantastic lead. Kirsten was a great character but Alice is a fantastic heroine. She isn't only a very well written character, she takes the weight of the biggest series arc (Parts 3, 4 and 5) on her back after Kirsten dies and does it like a champ. She is the character with the longest 'longivity', which means to me that the character wouldn't grow tired even after a hundred movies.
The supporters. Dream Warriors had the best cast of characters in the series but part 4's cast never failed to deliver likable, charismatic and even layered characters. Alice is the best, of course, but Rick, Debbie, Sheila, Kirsten are all fantastic. The only throwback is Dan, who isn't all bad. The dream powers in 3 are reality powers in 4, adding more layers to the characters that way. Good stuff.
It's actually epic. What's the last horror movie you saw that was this epic? This is the ultimate all out good vs. evil battle in the NOES series (and genre). Alice becomes stronger and stronger. Freddy becomes stronger and stronger. They couldn't have created more momentum for the final battle that takes place in a church and has some GOOD ass kicking. The momentum is built (in part) by the clever addition of Alice's mirror (which also adds to her character) which is covered with pictures of her friends, pictures she removes as her friends die off. In the end, the mirror is empty and Alice is ready to face Freddy. "I . . . am . . . eternal."
Memorability. The creativity and memorability in this entry is totally boosted in part 4. Literally everyone I know (not genre fans) have heard of or remember the scene where the naked girl appears in the water bed, or the pizza scene, or Freddy's body being torn appart by itself. The kills in the movie are the most creative of the series without clowning off like they did in parts 5 and 6 (comic book? videogame? Give me a fucking break). Besides, it's got balls (Kirsten's burning bed and her hand was one ugly thing to look at).
It's so hip! Just take a look at the wardrobe or the music in this one, it just screams 1988. The music is probably the best thing about it but not the only one. The characters are also pretty cool/hip themselves (at least Rick. Gotta love Rick).


What did everyone else think about the stumepastic Part 4?

[artguylarry]

I couldn't agree more. Especially the whole "hip" factor. What I enjoyed when I first saw the movie was the loop sequence, where Alice and Dan kept looping in the same scenario over and over again. Messed with my head when I first saw it. What's also creative (if anyone else noticed) was the subtle use of red and green tinted lighting (presumably to reflect the colors in Freddy's sweater) that set the dream sequences apart from the real life sequences.

Cool music too. Is anyone aware that the girl singing the song in the opening sequence to NOES 4 is the same girl playing Kristen in this one? Tuesdae Knight. I also thought she was a better Kristen than Patricia Arquette.

[ERIN_LoJ]

The only reason I can't enjoy 4, 5, and 6 more is because of the deterioration of Freddy. He just acts so darn goofy and those one liners have to go. Especially in 5, and certainly in 6, it's overdone and nauseating. In 4 it's not as bad yet. The 'creative deaths' can be cool but again, sometimes too overdone and cheesy, like the roach. BUT I do enjoy the plot idea (great stuff), the drama, the actors, and the little nudges they do. Of course the music always rocks as well.

[XCoRyX]

i agree...although i place part 3 over this as the best in the series....4 is right behind it closely...both rock big time.

after both of these, everything just flew downhill for the series until FvJ.

[jaw2929]

I totally agree... Part 4 is SORELY under-rated in the NOES Series, and I believe it to be the best one... It's my favourite, everything clicks in this one... I mean I liked Parts 1, 3, and 6 as well... But 4 is just the BEST! :D

[SpacePuppet]

I like this movie too. It's great for what it is.

[doaflip]

I loved how Linnea Quigley appeared as just breasts. Haha you didn't even see her face, just her boobs.

An entire career summed up in a few seconds of a single scene.

[Pink Corduroy]

"Dream Master" was the first Freddy film I saw all the way through, at my friend's 10th (I think) birthday party. The water bed scene, Kincaid's and Asthma Girl's death scenes all stuck in my memory for years and years until I finally picked up the box set about a year ago.

I really like "Part IV" for the most part, though I like the original and "Dream Warriors" better. It's a VERY '80s movie, which as a child of the '80s I appreciate. Alice is a very likeable character, and has a lot of really touching scenes: the mirror, the daydreams, the nunchuks. Unfortunately, the touchingness of the nunchuk scene is undercut slightly by the extreme obviousness of the body double (that wig does NOT look like her hair). But the scene is helped by Dramarama's "Anything Anything," an awesome song.

This movie was the turning point, I think. It is markedly more cartoonish than what had come before, but not yet obnoxiously so, in my opinion. Sure, much of the genuine scariness is gone, but I enjoy these movies not primarily as horror per se, but for their conceptual and aesthetic uniqueness.

[X-Nightcrawler]

Great to see so much love for part 4, here. I thought I was more alone regarding Dream Master.

[XCoRyX]

And features THAT character that should've never been killed off, Rick (Alices brother). Always puzzles me how they let Danny live but not Rick.

[teenkiller]

I think of THE DREAM WARRIORS and THE DREAM MASTER as probably the biggest one-two punch in horror history! Much like EVIL DEAD and EVIL DEAD 2 there are just about no other back to back sequels in a franchise that are as enjoyable to watch as these two. Unfortunately, things also start to go downhill from here on out but DAMN! was it good while it lasted. As always XCoRyX, I agree with you about Rick. But you know what? The fact that he didn't make it to the end of the film probably gets me more emotionally (gay, I know) attached to this film than if he did live. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[XCoRyX]

Yeah. It'd have been leagues better having the emotional brother & sister type ordeal survive...espicially when you compare Rick (or anybody,even linnea quiggleys boobs) to Dan. He is such a cardboard character,and he was in 2 friggin' NOES flicks...blasphemy!

[teenkiller]

I agree that Dan was a pretty cardboard character but I think even with his very limited screen time he was much better in THE DREAM CHILD. He seemed more likable somehow. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[Kevin Lockard]

I actually think Part 3 is a little epic in the way you've described here. I saw that film as the ultimate battle of Good vs Evil. Like Wes Craven said on the extra DVD of the Nightmare boxset, this film tackled the issue of a bunch of kids, all who think they're alone in the world coming together as one, finding out that they're not alone, that they all share a common fear and that the third film was ultimately about them coming together to face that fear as one.

[teenkiller]

That is exactly what I love about THE DREAM WARRIORS. Their bond. In the other films it is always one character who is going on about FREDDY this and FREDDY that and everybody else thinks that person is crazy until they end up dying. In this one they all tried to work together. One of my favorite scenes is Will and Joey arguing about who is going to take first shift. I love that shit. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[ilovemovies]

Teenkiller I gotta ask, is Masters of the Universe like your favorite movie or something? ;)


I think you guys are giving these movies a little too much credit. Don't get me wrong, I totally enjoyed Nightmares 3 & 4. They are fun movies. But I'd hardly call them epic. They aren't anything great or groundbreaking. Just solid, decent genre movies.


However, I will say that Alice is a great character. She's tough but she's also incredibly sexy and HOT!

Plus, she's the only character to actually survive a second movie.

[teenkiller]

Originally posted by ilovemovies
However, I will say that Alice is a great character. She's tough but she's also incredibly sexy and HOT!


Then you'll be happy to know that nearly twenty years later LISA WILCOX looks damn near exactly the same! Seriously.


http://a814.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00646/31/81/646391813_l.jpg


Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[Kevin Lockard]

Originally posted by ilovemovies
I think you guys are giving these movies a little too much credit. Don't get me wrong, I totally enjoyed Nightmares 3 & 4. They are fun movies. But I'd hardly call them epic. They aren't anything great or groundbreaking. Just solid, decent genre movies.[/B]

I doubt anyone actually thinks that they are "epic", it was more or less just a way of expressing the love for the story.

[Frank the Tank]

I didn't find this to be technically great (Definately not on the level of the original, 3 or New Nightmare), but I think this is probably the most entertaining NOES entry and the one with the best rewatch value.

[Inglorious]

For some reason I cant find the thread. I have seen it somewhere before... I just went through this thread and didnt find it here either.

Whats the song playing while Rick is practicing his kung fu?

[teenkiller]

That's "Anything, Anything (I'll Give You)" by DRAMARAMA. A kickass song for sure. Buck Cherry recorded a heavier version of it for the Road Trip soundtrack which you might also want to check out. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[teenkiller]

Also, I think THIS (http://joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28621&highlight=dramarama) is the topic you are referring to. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[JJFlamingo]

EXTREMELY fun and underrated entry in the Nightmare Series...

[Henry Lee Lucas]

lowest point in the series for me, maybe new nightmare is a little lower ionno...

[Inglorious]

Wait a minute. Doesn't Tuesday do a song for this too? I can't seem to find it on the soundtrack listing... I just remember something something "Ive been running from this nightmare, gotta run gotta hide..."

[teenkiller]

Yeah, she sings the song playing during the opening credits. The song is just called Nightmare. Pretty easy to find for downloading. Pretty good song. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[Inglorious]

Indeed. You are gold TK. GOLD!

I couldn't find it. I looked around Amazon and what not just doing a tiny search. I figured it'd just be easier to pose my question here. In which... it worked.

THANKS!

[teenkiller]

Heh, don't mention it. The pleasure is all mine. Allows me to show off the ole NIGHTMARE geekdom. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[poguesfan]

I going to have to disagree, but with respect, part 4 while not as bad as 2,5, and 6, was pretty fucking cheesy. First off, Freddy's resurrection from the grave was beyond fucking stupid (flaming dog urine, whatever the writers were smoking while writing this plot device, pass that shit down my way. COME ON GUYS, dog pee, SERIOUSLY!!!!) Second, the dream sequences aren't terrifying anymore, that whole element of "is this a dream or reality," was literally sucked out the window this time around and we are left with dream sequences that feel like attractions at a fucking amusement park (what the hell was up with that stupid kung fu dream death and that horrible "Freddy soul pizza," sequence.) Third, Freddy Krueger himself. While part 3, saw Freddy's gradual transformation from terrifying dream stalker, to goofy ass tour guide, part 4 turns Freddy into a fucking punchline. Seriously, I could have done without all those ridiculous puns and dry-corny humor that escaped from Freddy's mouth. In the first two movies Freddy was dark, terrifying, and menacing, here he is nothing more but a shadowy reflection of his former self. Finally, the acting from the supporting characters was horrible, that chick who played Kristen (I've seen better acting in a fucking porno flick,) was terrible. I hated the fact that they killed Kincaid and Joey off ten minutes into the movie, what was the point of that. The other supporting players are just typical teenage horror movie fodder (drink, do drugs, have sex, only to await their impending doom at hands of Freddy.)
On the positive side, I like the character of Alice, some of the dream sequences were pretty cool (the junkyard scene and the asthma scene really stick out,) and some of Freddy's one-liners cracked a smile ("How this for a wet dream.) Maybe I'm being too harsh, but the original Nightmare On Elm Street is one of my all time favorite horror movies, and the sequels that followed just seem to pale in comparison. While NOES 4 is not the worst in the series it still is one of the weakest entries. Final review: 5/10.

[teenkiller]

The other supporting players are just typical teenage horror movie fodder (drink, do drugs, have sex, only to await their impending doom at hands of Freddy.)

While I can see your grief with the film I think the above statement is off the mark. I thought these teens were more likeable than your typical teenage horror movie fodder. I mean there's not even any alcohol consumption, drug use, or sex in the film. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[poguesfan]

While I can see your grief with the film I think the above statement is off the mark. I thought these teens were more likeable than your typical teenage horror movie fodder. I mean there's not even any alcohol consumption, drug use, or sex in the film. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.


Well, maybe I was a tad off base with that aforementioned remark, but seriously which one of these character did you find yourself rooting for? Alice, I can see your arguement, but the others not even worth mentioning, I myself couldn't wait for them to become "Freddy hors d'oeuvres" But, hey good observation, look forward to your posts.

Slainte,
Iain

[teenkiller]

Well I think that Kincaid and Joey both became typical nonbelieving dickheads in the fourth one and that kind of bothered me, but Kincaid was still the man. Especially when he dropped the car on FREDDY and yelled "TAKE THAT MOTHERFUCKER!"

Otherwise I always really liked Rick. Could be my favorite character of the series. The awesome hair, karate, and blasting "Anything, Anything"... I always thought that guy was the epitome of cool. Too bad his death scene is the lamest in the film. I also really liked Debbie. She seemed like a cool friend and I liked that near the end she decided to step up to make a plan to defeat the boogeyman. Too bad for her it was a little too late.

But like I said earlier I could see why other fans wouldn't like it. It's the one that made ELM STREET hip with it's commercialization. FREDDY was becoming too cool be be considered scary and things were only going to get worse from there...

Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[MisterTwister]

Well I think that Kincaid and Joey both became typical nonbelieving dickheads in the fourth one and that kind of bothered me, but Kincaid was still the man. Especially when he dropped the car on FREDDY and yelled "TAKE THAT MOTHERFUCKER!"

Otherwise I always really liked Rick. Could be my favorite character of the series. The awesome hair, karate, and blasting "Anything, Anything"... I always thought that guy was the epitome of cool. Too bad his death scene is the lamest in the film. I also really liked Debbie. She seemed like a cool friend and I liked that near the end she decided to step up to make a plan to defeat the boogeyman. Too bad for her it was a little too late.

But like I said earlier I could see why other fans wouldn't like it. It's the one that made ELM STREET hip with it's commercialization. FREDDY was becoming too cool be be considered scary and things were only going to get worse from there...

Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

Although I can understand hating it for that reason, I still think it's dumb to simply hate the film because it became a commericial sucess. Come on people.

I really dig funny Freddy. I dig scary Freddy, no doubt about it but to me it's more pathetic to keep on trying to make a villain scary than making them comedic.

I love NOES 4. It was my first Nightmare film and I have great memories of it. I love the characters, Freddy's one liners made me laugh, the FX is EXCELLENT and in the end it's a shit load of 80's horror fun.

For me it has the best Freddy make-up of the entire series. It has its flaws, mostly to due with the screenplay but I still love it.

Hell I even dig NOES 5. That was also fun, to a lesser degree.

I would put NOES series right above the "decent" Halloween franchise.

[poguesfan]

Although I can understand hating it for that reason, I still think it's dumb to simply hate the film because it became a commericial sucess. Come on people.

I really dig funny Freddy. I dig scary Freddy, no doubt about it but to me it's more pathetic to keep on trying to make a villain scary than making them comedic.

I love NOES 4. It was my first Nightmare film and I have great memories of it. I love the characters, Freddy's one liners made me laugh, the FX is EXCELLENT and in the end it's a shit load of 80's horror fun.

For me it has the best Freddy make-up of the entire series. It has its flaws, mostly to due with the screenplay but I still love it.

Hell I even dig NOES 5. That was also fun, to a lesser degree.

I would put NOES series right above the "decent" Halloween franchise.

Again, point well taken, however I still prefer scary Freddy over funny Freddy. The original Freddy was; as I said earlier, dark, menacing, and horrific. I wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley. By NOES 4 Freddy was for lack of a better word, too dumb for his own good. Don't get me wrong as a kid I loved funny Freddy, but as I became older the novelty really started to wear wafer thin.

[teenkiller]

I don't think it was the fact that ELM STREET 4 became a commercial sucess as being a reason for some fans hating it. I think it was the approach taken to get it to that point that leaves certain fans feeling disappointed. FREDDY was SOLD OUT. They sold out FREDDY for the big bucks and thats what gets people. Now I don't mind so much with THE DREAM MASTER because I think it's a pretty fucking fun film. However when I was a kid I used to think that FREDDY'S DEAD was a 10/10 film and now that I'm older I just know that's not the case for SEVERAL reasons. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[poguesfan]

I don't think it was the fact that ELM STREET 4 became a commercial sucess as being a reason for some fans hating it. I think it was the approach taken to get it to that point that leaves certain fans feeling disappointed. FREDDY was SOLD OUT. They sold out FREDDY for the big bucks and thats what gets people. Now I don't mind so much with THE DREAM MASTER because I think it's a pretty fucking fun film. However when I was a kid I used to think that FREDDY'S DEAD was a 10/10 film and now that I'm older I just know that's not the case for SEVERAL reasons. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.


I hated Freddy's Dead even when I was kid. When Freddy pulled out the infamous "power glove," for the Nintendo scenerio kill, my stomach made a turn for the worse.

[MisterTwister]

Again, point well taken, however I still prefer scary Freddy over funny Freddy. The original Freddy was; as I said earlier, dark, menacing, and horrific. I wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley. By NOES 4 Freddy was for lack of a better word, too dumb for his own good. Don't get me wrong as a kid I loved funny Freddy, but as I became older the novelty really started to wear wafer thin.

I will agree as an Adult I don't find Funny Freddy as amusing as I did when I was a child. I will admit I do like Scary Freddy more but I get a kick out of Funny Freddy.

[g1ng3rsnap9ed]

:DX-Nightcrawler, let Buddha bless you for birthing the best forum thread to ever grace my computer screen!:D

Nightmare 4 is in my opinion the best of the series,(even tho I consider Nightmare 1 my favorite film,its a touchy subject to me)this has the darkest,and in my opinion funniest humour in the entire series, where Nightmares 5 or 6 become absurd.("Now we're playing with power" and "Goochie-goochie goo!"would have been funny in a spoof,but not in an official Nightmare)

I always felt for each of these characters,and its always a gut-punch to watch them kick the bucket (full of blood and grue of course),especially Joey and Kincaid, because I was so happy to see them survive part 3 and then "Oh wait,they do die."The roach-motel was brilliant along with the set-up given to it,the asthma scene had me in stitches,as did "How's this for a wet-dream!?",I rolled my eyes when Rick got his kung-fu due,and was in awe as I witnessed Kristen get tossed into the boiler left starving in the previous flicks.

Freddy could at times be menacing,and at times be loveably corny,which gave both horror-loving and childish imbocilic sides of me something to grin at.(A grin with an odd semblance to this guy's::D)There seemed to be a good balance between the two that I like,rather than the comedic Freddy of parts 5 and 6.(Which I DO NOT hate!I love both of those films in their own way,however bad they may be.)Watching times like this makes me even angrier that michael bay (Whose name I refuse to capitalize)is not allowing my favorite actor to reprise his iconic role.

To sum this up,Nightmare 4 was my first party movie that I would bring friends over to watch with me,and will always have a special place in my heart.Even though it is flawwed,it is probably the biggest film crush I have ever had in my life,in fact it was the film to get me interested in the horror genre.(Well,the original Nightmare was my first,b/c Child's Play is a dark comedy imo,but this film was the one that hung me on a meat-hook and left me there.)Now,however I cannot bring myself to watch it knowing a remake is coming soon,if only us horror fans could ban together and burn platinum dunes back to hell where it belongs...if only...

5/4

[zombievictim]

While I do enjoy The Dream Master to some degree, many other films in the series overshadow it for me. The film seems to fall somewhere in the middle behind the original, Dream Warriors, and A New Nightmare.

[Dream Slasher]

I just rewatched part 4 of the NOES series and I must say, wow. I hadn't noticed just how good this movie is until now. Here are a few things that got me.


The plot. The idea behind this movie is scriptually brilliant. Part 3 had the clever idea of pulling someone into your dreams and having powers in your dreams but never properly added both concepts into one. Part 4 does that by adding the idea of our main collecting the powers of her downed friends. This isn't just a brilliant concept, but it's brilliantly put on screen. The way she gets a gift that symbolizes a friend (nun-chakus, wristband, bug-thing) makes a very interesting visual. Add to that making our main a day dreamer. Cleverness abounds.
Alice. Nancy was a fantastic lead. Kirsten was a great character but Alice is a fantastic heroine. She isn't only a very well written character, she takes the weight of the biggest series arc (Parts 3, 4 and 5) on her back after Kirsten dies and does it like a champ. She is the character with the longest 'longivity', which means to me that the character wouldn't grow tired even after a hundred movies.
The supporters. Dream Warriors had the best cast of characters in the series but part 4's cast never failed to deliver likable, charismatic and even layered characters. Alice is the best, of course, but Rick, Debbie, Sheila, Kirsten are all fantastic. The only throwback is Dan, who isn't all bad. The dream powers in 3 are reality powers in 4, adding more layers to the characters that way. Good stuff.
It's actually epic. What's the last horror movie you saw that was this epic? This is the ultimate all out good vs. evil battle in the NOES series (and genre). Alice becomes stronger and stronger. Freddy becomes stronger and stronger. They couldn't have created more momentum for the final battle that takes place in a church and has some GOOD ass kicking. The momentum is built (in part) by the clever addition of Alice's mirror (which also adds to her character) which is covered with pictures of her friends, pictures she removes as her friends die off. In the end, the mirror is empty and Alice is ready to face Freddy. "I . . . am . . . eternal."
Memorability. The creativity and memorability in this entry is totally boosted in part 4. Literally everyone I know (not genre fans) have heard of or remember the scene where the naked girl appears in the water bed, or the pizza scene, or Freddy's body being torn appart by itself. The kills in the movie are the most creative of the series without clowning off like they did in parts 5 and 6 (comic book? videogame? Give me a fucking break). Besides, it's got balls (Kirsten's burning bed and her hand was one ugly thing to look at).
It's so hip! Just take a look at the wardrobe or the music in this one, it just screams 1988. The music is probably the best thing about it but not the only one. The characters are also pretty cool/hip themselves (at least Rick. Gotta love Rick).


What did everyone else think about the stumepastic Part 4?

wow, great thread/post...
basically summed up my thoughts exactly on every point. Loved this movie. I love part 5 also, i think that ones more underrated then this one. Man, i wish they would of kept the Alice storyline going, thats what i want, not a remake or prequel or whatever else they plan on doing, reimagining, lol.

[g1ng3rsnap9ed]

Yea,I want to know more about Alice myself,this remake REALLY sucks!!! Good to see another Dream Master fan though!!