The war on PORN!

[BakeTheMooCow]

Courtesy The Washington Times (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/19/AR2005091901570.html?nav=rss_print/asection):

The FBI is joining the Bush administration's War on Porn. And it's looking for a few good agents.

Early last month, the bureau's Washington Field Office began recruiting for a new anti-obscenity squad. Attached to the job posting was a July 29 Electronic Communication from FBI headquarters to all 56 field offices, describing the initiative as "one of the top priorities" of Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and, by extension, of "the Director." That would be FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III.

Mischievous commentary began propagating around the water coolers at 601 Fourth St. NW and its satellites, where the FBI's second-largest field office concentrates on national security, high-technology crimes and public corruption.

The new squad will divert eight agents, a supervisor and assorted support staff to gather evidence against "manufacturers and purveyors" of pornography -- not the kind exploiting children, but the kind that depicts, and is marketed to, consenting adults.

"I guess this means we've won the war on terror," said one exasperated FBI agent, speaking on the condition of anonymity because poking fun at headquarters is not regarded as career-enhancing. "We must not need any more resources for espionage."

Among friends and trusted colleagues, an experienced national security analyst said, "it's a running joke for us."

A few of the printable samples:

"Things I Don't Want On My Resume, Volume Four."

"I already gave at home."

"Honestly, most of the guys would have to recuse themselves."

Federal obscenity prosecutions, which have been out of style since Attorney General Edwin Meese III in the Reagan administration made pornography a signature issue in the 1980s, do "encounter many legal issues, including First Amendment claims," the FBI headquarters memo noted.

Applicants for the porn squad should therefore have a stomach for the kind of material that tends to be most offensive to local juries. Community standards -- along with a prurient purpose and absence of artistic merit -- define criminal obscenity under current Supreme Court doctrine.

"Based on a review of past successful cases in a variety of jurisdictions," the memo said, the best odds of conviction come with pornography that "includes bestiality, urination, defecation, as well as sadistic and masochistic behavior." No word on the universe of other kinks that helps make porn a multibillion-dollar industry.

Popular acceptance of hard-core pornography has come a long way, with some of its stars becoming mainstream celebrities and their products -- once confined to seedy shops and theaters -- being "purveyed" by upscale hotels and most home cable and satellite television systems. Explicit sexual entertainment is a profit center for companies including General Motors Corp. and Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. (the two major owners of DirecTV), Time Warner Inc. and the Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott and Hyatt hotel chains.

But Gonzales endorses the rationale of predecessor Meese: that adult pornography is a threat to families and children. Christian conservatives, long skeptical of Gonzales, greeted the pornography initiative with what the Family Research Council called "a growing sense of confidence in our new attorney general."

Congress began funding the obscenity initiative in fiscal 2005 and specified that the FBI must devote 10 agents to adult pornography. The bureau decided to create a dedicated squad only in the Washington Field Office. "All other field offices may investigate obscenity cases pursuant to this initiative if resources are available," the directive from headquarters said. "Field offices should not, however, divert resources from higher priority matters, such as public corruption."

Public corruption, officially, is fourth on the FBI's priority list, after protecting the United States from terrorist attack, foreign espionage and cyber-based attacks. Just below those priorities are civil rights, organized crime, white-collar crime and "significant violent crime." The guidance from headquarters does not mention where pornography fits in.

"The Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation's top priority remains fighting the war on terrorism," said Justice Department press secretary Brian Roehrkasse. "However, it is not our sole priority. In fact, Congress has directed the department to focus on other priorities, such as obscenity."

At the FBI's field office, spokeswoman Debra Weierman expressed disappointment that some of her colleagues find grist for humor in the new campaign. "The adult obscenity squad . . . stems from an attorney general mandate, funded by Congress," she said. "The personnel assigned to this initiative take the responsibility of this assignment very seriously and are dedicated to the success of this program."

LOL Bush.. you silly

[The Postmaster General]

Oh, this is rich.

In the "terrorist on the prowl" thread I was exaggerating to make a point, asking what if they started going after porn like they do terrorism.

And.... well, this is just fucking strange.

March on Christian Soldiers!

[outsyder]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
Oh, this is rich.

In the "terrorist on the prowl" thread I was exaggerating to make a point, asking what if they started going after porn like they do terrorism.

And.... well, this is just fucking strange.

March on Christian Soldiers!


Yeah. First video games, now porn. Better stockpile your R-rated DVD's, Bubba.

[TheAxeGrinder]

Um, whatever happened to Freedom of Speech down there? Jeez, I'm glad here in the Great White North the only real problems we have are crooked politicians who get elected on empty promises (oh wait, that's how every politician gets elected...)

[Brando @$$ Fat]

As far as I'm concerned, as long as the porn has dialogue, it should be legal. Otherwise, freedom of speech wouldn't apply and it wouldn't count.

[someguy]

I will not REST until men and women masturbating in the privacy of their own homes is ceased!!

[C-Desecration-]

Take that, britney spears.

[EVILxxx]

I don't think anything will come from this. It has been far too long since The Bush administration has pandered to Christian interest groups. There is no way they could take down the porn industry, it's too lucrative.

[outsyder]

Originally posted by someguy
I will not REST until men and women masturbating in the privacy of their own homes is ceased!!


Pornography Industry Statistics

Size of the Industry $57.0 billion world-wide - $12.0 billion US
Adult Videos $20.0 billion
Escort Services $11.0 billion
Magazines $ 7.5 billion
Sex Clubs $ 5.0 billion
Phone Sex $ 4.5 billion
Cable & Pay Per View $ 2.5 billion
Internet $ 2.5 billion
CD-Rom $ 1.5 billion
Novelties $ 1.0 billion
Other $ 1.5 billion

http://www.familysafemedia.com/pornography_statistics.html


Take it for what you will, but I don't think anyone is going to stop Big Pr0n.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Brando @$$ Fat
As far as I'm concerned, as long as the porn has dialogue, it should be legal. Otherwise, freedom of speech wouldn't apply and it wouldn't count.

LOL

[Lynn7]

The porn industry is just about people masturbating in the privacy of their own homes?

First of all, have there ever been as many sex crimes as their are now? I think porn that is easily accessed has gotten the criminal pervs to go out and about to get some. How many little kids are getting molested these days?

The women in the sex industry are mostly high on drugs and are exposed to AIDS etc in the name of realistic porn.

At one point, there were some scrambled porn channels coming thru on the cable and if you sat there for a minute you could see the images come through that would last a few seconds- long enough for my kids to get an eyeful. and son't we just all love those explicit emails coming through. I won' even let my youngest kid have an email cause I don't want him to accidentally come across vibrantly explicit photos of all kinds of stuff he has neveer even heard of yet.

How about the porn companies who have their sites hooked up to the links of kiddie shows. That is bad.

Yeah, the porn industry is harmless.

[someguy]

Lynn, you brighten up my day :)

I'm not going to argue this because I really don't want to talk about the finer points of professional sex and jerking off, so I'll let the porn freaks take it from here

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Lynn7
How many little kids are getting molested these days?


Not as many since the Catholic Church has cleaned up its act.

[SpongeBod]

I wish there was something that could be done about all the porn that's on the internet.
First of all, I'd get more done around the house.
But more importantly, I do think it is bad how easy it is to view these days. I'm going to have to try my best to shield my son from seeing all the nasty shit that's available.
I remember when I was a lot younger, and I would find a Club or Chic magazine that belonged to my friend's older brother. It was like finding gold! And all it showed was hot naked women. Not the crazy shit you see now, when you're trying to peek at some free porn. What's with all the ass fucking, fisting and cum swapping. Aside from someguy, do any of you like that shit? Just kidding someguy. I know you're a foot guy.;)
All I'm saying is that all this porn is desensitizing and less fun. Okay it's still fun, just not as exciting.
I don't know maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I think porn should be viewed in magazines and video tape. The way God intended. To me there is something wrong with too much technology and porn.
Now if you will excuse me. I need to check out the clip of the week on freeones.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Lynn7
The women in the sex industry are mostly high on drugs and are exposed to AIDS etc in the name of realistic porn.

Yeah, the porn industry is harmless.

How do you know this?

For such a billion dollar industry, I don't see where there are billions of sex crimes being perpetrated.

It's not the porn in the individual, it's the individual who needs more than porn.

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by Lynn7
The women in the sex industry are mostly high on drugs and are exposed to AIDS etc in the name of realistic porn.

The porn industry is in fact very careful about STD's, especially AIDS. Because AIDS gets them out of business, they protect themselves from it the best they can. AIDS is very, very rare among adult actors these days. It's common practice that all actors and actresses have to prove with tests that they don't have any diseases before shooting. And of course many porn flicks have sex only with condoms on.

And drugs? There are drugs in the porn industry, just like there are drugs in all forms of entertainment business, including music and movies. The drugs are not there because people have sex, drugs are there because the industry by it's nature attracts bohemian, artsy, liberal people. And when I'm talking about drugs, I don't mean heroin. The drugs moving around in porn business are the same as in all entertainment business: Coke and weed. The favourite drugs of the last two presidents of USA.

You don't seem to have any factual information about sex industry, and you are only talking about your own prejudices.

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by Lynn7
The porn industry is just about people masturbating in the privacy of their own homes?

First of all, have there ever been as many sex crimes as their are now? I think porn that is easily accessed has gotten the criminal pervs to go out and about to get some. How many little kids are getting molested these days?

The women in the sex industry are mostly high on drugs and are exposed to AIDS etc in the name of realistic porn.



How about the porn companies who have their sites hooked up to the links of kiddie shows. That is bad.

Yeah, the porn industry is harmless.

Lynn in all honesty blaming the porn industry for rape, and child molestation is just like blaming Columbine on the movie industry. And since we are all members of a movie fansite I don't think we believe that to be true. Truth is the people who commit rape, child molestation or murder are in a sense. . . crazy, inhebriated, or mentally diseased. The would have commited these offenses not matter what media they were exposed to.

[echo_bravo]

4.5 billion has been made from phone sex alone?! Man, there are a ton of losers out there.

Personally I could care less. I prefer the REAL thing but porn shouldnt be fucking outlawed.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by TheDeadWalk
How do you know this?

For such a billion dollar industry, I don't see where there are billions of sex crimes being perpetrated.

It's not the porn in the individual, it's the individual who needs more than porn.

I've watched some documentaries. It is pretty sad.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by Tuukka

You don't seem to have any factual information about sex industry, and you are only talking about your own prejudices.

Well, it's true that I have never conducted my own personal research on the issue but I have watched documentaries and seen reports about it. I know that the industry claims to be safe with testing but there are many unscrupulous producers etc and what about the real low level internet stuff- are those people all monitored- who are these people anyway. Anyone can put out internet porn. I doubt they follow standards for good health.Wahtever- I think it is a sad industry.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by EVILxxx
Lynn in all honesty blaming the porn industry for rape, and child molestation is just like blaming Columbine on the movie industry. And since we are all members of a movie fansite I don't think we believe that to be true. Truth is the people who commit rape, child molestation or murder are in a sense. . . crazy, inhebriated, or mentally diseased. The would have commited these offenses not matter what media they were exposed to.


I'm not saying that the porn creates these people but the people who are already twisted are given easy access to the stuff that turns their key. Like kiddie porn etc. It is easier to get on-line than ever before. And people used to have to go to special movie theatres to watch porn (remember Pee Wee Herman?) Now they can watch it 24/7 in the comfort of their own homes- that has got to have an affect.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I'm not saying that the porn creates these people but the people who are already twisted are given easy access to the stuff that turns their key. Like kiddie porn etc. It is easier to get on-line than ever before. And people used to have to go to special movie theatres to watch porn (remember Pee Wee Herman?) Now they can watch it 24/7 in the comfort of their own homes- that has got to have an affect.

Uh, child porn is illegal (and universally reviled, including by the porn industry). Were talking about the normal kind of porn.

What effect are you talking about? These people aren't harming any-damn-body. It's no more harmful than watching something like It's A Wonderful Life.

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I'm not saying that the porn creates these people but the people who are already twisted are given easy access to the stuff that turns their key. Like kiddie porn etc. It is easier to get on-line than ever before. And people used to have to go to special movie theatres to watch porn (remember Pee Wee Herman?) Now they can watch it 24/7 in the comfort of their own homes- that has got to have an affect.

What Macready saud Lynn. Anyone who panders, sells, or views child pornography is a criminal. If people want to sray at home and watch porn all day that is really none of my business. Unless it causes them to lose their job, and end up on welfare. Then it is my business.

[The Postmaster General]

Well, it's true that I have never conducted my own personal research on the issue but I have watched documentaries and seen reports about it.

Oh, you saw Farrah'sNight: 9 on 1 too?

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Well, it's true that I have never conducted my own personal research on the issue but I have watched documentaries and seen reports about it. I know that the industry claims to be safe with testing but there are many unscrupulous producers etc and what about the real low level internet stuff- are those people all monitored- who are these people anyway. Anyone can put out internet porn. I doubt they follow standards for good health.Wahtever- I think it is a sad industry.

You can't keep society so tightly gripped that they conform to standards where everything they view and participate in is viewed as "moral" in the conservative sense.

I don't think porn is any sort of "key" at all. Marquis De Sade didn't need to watch Butt Bangers #12 to make him torture women for his own sexual pleasure.

Just because you have bad apples in society doesn't mean you have to take a lockdown on the porn industry. Those bad apples will be bad apples, and until there is concrete evidence purporting it the other way around, I will stand firm on the issue.

A bad, violent man watches simulated rape films, and we all think it's the films that caused him to go and rape women. Nevermind the fact that he was simply a bad, violent man. We need not use our modern tools to take the blame for things all the time. These bad things happened long before the world wide web was invented.

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Well, it's true that I have never conducted my own personal research on the issue but I have watched documentaries and seen reports about it. I know that the industry claims to be safe with testing but there are many unscrupulous producers etc and what about the real low level internet stuff- are those people all monitored- who are these people anyway. Anyone can put out internet porn. I doubt they follow standards for good health.Wahtever- I think it is a sad industry.

All documentaries have a bias. There are also plenty of documentaries out there which give a positive view of porn industy. It all depends on who is making the documentary, and what is the bias they want to bring through.

I know people who work in the adult industry. And they are pretty normal people. Overly sexual, yes, but other than that pretty normal folks who have made a concious decisision to act in adult movies. They are not doing it out of desperation, they are doing it because they like it.

Sure, there are also people who are being exploited in the porn industry. On the other hand, there are people being exploited in pretty much all industries.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by MacReady
Uh, child porn is illegal (and universally reviled, including by the porn industry). Were talking about the normal kind of porn.

What effect are you talking about? These people aren't harming any-damn-body. It's no more harmful than watching something like It's A Wonderful Life.

There are plenty of people who have become so addicted to porn that they are unable to function well with their wives- they get consumed with it. but hey, there are alcoholics too and I don't think we should ban alcohol so I would just say I don't think it is as harmless as people say it is. If you would not want your daughter to choose to go into porn as a career then chances are you think it is a dirty industry too.

There have been men who have raped and murdered who watch porn before they act on it so though there is not a conclusive effect, it might be better if they had to go all the way to a movie theatre to watch it but those days, of course, are over.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Tuukka
On the other hand, there are people being exploited in pretty much all industries.


http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2004/12/23/1103840083_5538.jpg

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Lynn7
There have been men who have raped and murdered who watch porn before they act on it so though there is not a conclusive effect, it might be better if they had to go all the way to a movie theatre to watch it but those days, of course, are over.


There have been men who've returned from war and have murdered their wives, then the cited mental anguish from the war as a cause.

[C-Desecration-]

Lynn's aware of the exceptions (like alcohol, hey, why not ban that). And sure, the industry is not utterly harmless. But it's an outlet, and if a person is irresponsible enough to plug in and not plug out of that outlet, at the cost of their wife, children, family, work, whatever, that's not the porn industry's fault. The japanese culture goes much farther than the americans, and the violence against women is certainly much higher, more dense, but how did this come about? It came about after the psychology, not before. Which means it's not a cause. It's a tool. And a murderer who can't find a knife is going to pick up a sledge hammer and still kill someone.

Without porn, like deadwalk said, these people would still be looking to plug into something. It's not like someone with the inclination to rape, without being able to experiment with its pleasure with porn, is going to through up his hands and go straight. Doesn't work that way. The psychology of that gets in there before they start experimenting.
And I know quite a lot about this particular thing, so I'd take my word for it. Porn, or, as in the japanese culture, moreso hentai, are not harmless. Just like a toold is not harmless. But it takes someone capable to pick up that tool in the first place, and then use it.
No good, moral person is going to look at a knife and suddenly go "Hey! How about I murder someone?"
That comes before.

[Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by Lynn7
There are plenty of people who have become so addicted to porn that they are unable to function well with their wives- they get consumed with it. but hey, there are alcoholics too and I don't think we should ban alcohol so I would just say I don't think it is as harmless as people say it is. If you would not want your daughter to choose to go into porn as a career then chances are you think it is a dirty industry too.

There have been men who have raped and murdered who watch porn before they act on it so though there is not a conclusive effect, it might be better if they had to go all the way to a movie theatre to watch it but those days, of course, are over.

Well, I could say that what if a guy who really liked Bush decided to start a war in his neighberhood against people he views as a threat to his country. He just got done watching Bush give a speech about fighting the enemies, so he decided to do the same thing. I mean, what's the difference? None really, if your logic is that whatever a person views constantly and loves is more likely to push them over the edge into doing something crazy.

And why would you prefer these porn addicts to be jerking off in public places rather than in their homes?

[BorderEevilIII]

here we go again.... :rolleyes:

forgodfuksakes :mad:

Have I fallen back into the 50's?!?!? :confused:

Are theseFuks who drummed up this silly crusade on Crack or something?!?!?

This may have made sense back in the 70's
:rolleyes:

[Mr-Blonde]

So I suppose Bush would have us believe that he's never so much as looked at a skin mag. :rolleyes:

Before he launches a "War on Porno" Bush should come clean about any of his past pornography experiences. You know, like Bill Clinton did about Monica Lewinsky:

"I did not have sexual relations with myself."

[KcMsterpce]

I'm not into kiddie porn, I don't want to rape people, and I don't even participate in 'casual sex'.

I don't watch all that much porn, so I'm not the best example of 'normal people who love porn', but I have TONS of friends who are all about it - and without them I wouldn't have been as educated on it - and they are normal guys.

Obviously - seeing as how porn makes so much money each year - the largest majority of viewers are not sick and twisted perverts. They're just like anyone else.

It's always easy to just blame a general topic on someone's actions. Too easy, and done too often. "OH, he plays violent video games. That's why he went on a murdering rampage."
FUCK THAT. There has always been pornography, and there have always been demented people in the world. There always will be. The porn industry doesn't do much in the way of changing that one way or another.

[C-Desecration-]

I don't like porn either, kc. I'm probably one of very few who haven't bothered to so much as glance at paris hilton's tape.
But just because certain people become obsessed with something and react badly to it, again, doesn't mean we should attack that something. I guess some people just don't want to believe that these sort of things are our nature, sadly, and there's always going to be these brutal things happening. Or if they do believe that, they still want to do something about it.

I don't think there's any media you can attack and kill to do away with violence. Not going to happen.

Like tuuka said, I think the one detractor who's posted in this thread, lynn, is just putting up her personal bias, and trying to rationalize it.

[The Postmaster General]

I hear Ed Gein had multiple porn accounts.

[C-Desecration-]

Ed Gein can eat my face. I heard that these priests sexually molested children. And priests hate porn. Gay people too.

I motion for more gay porn.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
EI heard that these priests sexually molested children.

To me that's the taker right there.

The entire assumption that rapists carry out their act as an affect of watching porn is absurd --- I'm not denying it happens, but I would wager it's a very small percentage. Hey, a guy watches porn -- I bet most of these rapists also like beer, and nachos. Maybe we should look at the stats for that.

And I'm glad to know I'm not in a club of one in regards to the HIlton tape. I didn't bother watching it once Ebert spoiled it for me in the Chicago Harald. But, for real -- good to hear not all my brothers rushed to see the Hlton involved with some bad cinematography and lighting.

[KcMsterpce]

I had no interest in the Hilton tape because A) she's an ugly, worthless skank whore, and B) she's an ugly, worthless skank whore.

If I thought she was hot, I'd have checked it out sooner. (I did see it, thanks to my friends that I mentioned earlier who love porn.)

[Lynn7]

It's easier for people who have an inclination to a behavior they dont' want to do to stay away from temptation. Liek it might be harder for an alcoholic to kick the habit if he lives on a street with lots of bars and package stores. It is hard to keep away from porn these days. There are really raunchy emails that have come to me (although not lately) and if I turn on HBO after 11 pm there are many episodes of porn freely available for anyone who happens to be up a the time. The magazines you have to actually go out and buy but the emails, the google tricky listings, the HBO movies and shows come into your home without you wanting to see the porn. Well, it means big bucks so it's not going to stop.

One thing that is funny to me about porn- people think it is funny when young guys go to a strip club, but when they see 50 year old guys sitting around a strip club it is considered sad and pathetic- why is that??? The same strippers might be dancing but the audience is percieved differently. Maybe cause most guys should be outgrowing that stuff?

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Lynn7
It's easier for people who have an inclination to a behavior they dont' want to do to stay away from temptation. Liek it might be harder for an alcoholic to kick the habit if he lives on a street with lots of bars and package stores. It is hard to keep away from porn these days. There are really raunchy emails that have come to me (although not lately) and if I turn on HBO after 11 pm there are many episodes of porn freely available for anyone who happens to be up a the time. The magazines you have to actually go out and buy but the emails, the google tricky listings, the HBO movies and shows come into your home without you wanting to see the porn. Well, it means big bucks so it's not going to stop.

Again, why is this a bad thing? It's just like a hobby. I (along with many other people here) watch alot of movies. Who is it harming?

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by MacReady
Again, why is this a bad thing? It's just like a hobby. I (along with many other people here) watch alot of movies. Who is it harming?

I'm not sure what Lynn7's take on this is, but most anti-porn people seem to think that the act of sex is in itself an evil act. It's redeemable only if it's done for procreation, or as an act of love between a wife and a husband.

But yeah, I'm sure there are people for whom porn is harmful. There are also plenty of people to whom booze is harmful. Cigarettes are harmful for everyone. So is sugar and fat.

Yet we are not making those things illegal. Porn shouldn't be treated any differently than the millions of other things that *might* be harmful to some people.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Lynn7
It's easier for people who have an inclination to a behavior they dont' want to do to stay away from temptation. Liek it might be harder for an alcoholic to kick the habit if he lives on a street with lots of bars and package stores. It is hard to keep away from porn these days. There are really raunchy emails that have come to me (although not lately) and if I turn on HBO after 11 pm there are many episodes of porn freely available for anyone who happens to be up a the time. The magazines you have to actually go out and buy but the emails, the google tricky listings, the HBO movies and shows come into your home without you wanting to see the porn. Well, it means big bucks so it's not going to stop.

One thing that is funny to me about porn- people think it is funny when young guys go to a strip club, but when they see 50 year old guys sitting around a strip club it is considered sad and pathetic- why is that??? The same strippers might be dancing but the audience is percieved differently. Maybe cause most guys should be outgrowing that stuff?

HBO is an uncensored pay channel, and it lets its customers now well and good about that. There may be a kid's show or two in the morning, but after hours is adult material, whether if be something like Six Feet Under, Sex in the city, or what-have-you. Your best intrest may be to actually delete the channel so that you cannot browse by it by channel surfing, you actually have to manually push the number (pushing 43 on the remote control) of the uncensored channel when you actually wish to watch it. Remove the channels of questionable material and access them when TV guide says Forrest Gump is on.

I have no problem with a 50 year old man in a strip club.

[C-Desecration-]

It's easier for people who have an inclination to a behavior they dont' want to do to stay away from temptation. Liek it might be harder for an alcoholic to kick the habit if he lives on a street with lots of bars and package stores. It is hard to keep away from porn these days. There are really raunchy emails that have come to me (although not lately) and if I turn on HBO after 11 pm there are many episodes of porn freely available for anyone who happens to be up a the time. The magazines you have to actually go out and buy but the emails, the google tricky listings, the HBO movies and shows come into your home without you wanting to see the porn. Well, it means big bucks so it's not going to stop.

You are so right. Nothing sarcastic, because you are. It is easier for people with an itch to strach to ease off if there is no temptation. Which is why I'm glad to see you folks closing down bars around any recovering alcoholics.
Oh wait. . .

[Joshmo]

This administration shouldnt be underestimated in taking on Porn. They have proven very adapt at "multi tasking"

Currently they are:

Trying to ruin SS, Health Care, & waging war, etc... adding porn to the list is no big deal for them.

It just came out on dvd and now would be a very good time to rent "Inside Deep Throat" to see what the government tried doing 30 years ago and how they have never stopped trying. Eerie, how this documentary came out just when this new crusade is underway.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Tuukka
But yeah, I'm sure there are people for whom porn is harmful. There are also plenty of people to whom booze is harmful. Cigarettes are harmful for everyone. So is sugar and fat.

I don't think those thigns are comparable. When you ingest tobacco, narcotics, alcohol and so forth, you're putting harmful chemicals in your body and (minutely) decreasing your own health. Porn has no physical affect on the body, and it's only harmful when you watch way too much of it (same with film). However, the people who do so along with the ones that become harmful to society after watching it are simply not normal and I doubt that they would do better in a porn-less world.

[The Postmaster General]

Well, let's hope Lynn's people don't hear her talking or they might just decide to focus on banning the internet and cable TV - The same way the war on terror shuts down head shops, and pro-pot rallys - "guilty by association" seems to be the motto of this administration.

I've always condiered myself more of a "puritan" than the norm in regards to pornography (and excessive violence) - However my opinion stops on the notion that it's my job and my job alone to teach the values I believe in. Morals, the same as religion is not the job of government.

Hell, I don't think interstate roadsigns for those adult clubs (advertising that you can take a shower there) are anything less than despicable, as it could really get a kids mind in the gutte. However, it's just one of MANY questions I will have to face with kids. I'd just assume that a kid only be exposed to the music and TV shows that I know a lot about myself, so I never have to answer questions I don't feel like answering - but that's not the way America works. That's not the way individuality works.

[C-Desecration-]

Not only is alcohol harmful to yourself, but it's also harmful to others.I'd say people get beat to hell a lot more because of alcohol, then women raped because of porn. And by "because of", I mean total, absolute blame.
A drunk driver who didn't drink would not have run over Timmy and his tricycle. That's 99% absolute. A man with tendencies such as abuse and rape and who enjoys humoring those tendencies will pretty much do his thing even if porn was tossed.

So I'd say beer is worse then porn, if we're talking about what its excessiveness can cause.

[Mr-Blonde]

I've got a question:

What is the legal precedent for a "War on Pornography"? Isn't it protected under the First Amendment?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Or is this just another example of the Bush administration trying to rewrite the Constitution and upsurp the legislative process?

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by TheDeadWalk
HBO is an uncensored pay channel, and it lets its customers now well and good about that. There may be a kid's show or two in the morning, but after hours is adult material, whether if be something like Six Feet Under, Sex in the city, or what-have-you. Your best intrest may be to actually delete the channel so that you cannot browse by it by channel surfing, you actually have to manually push the number (pushing 43 on the remote control) of the uncensored channel when you actually wish to watch it. Remove the channels of questionable material and access them when TV guide says Forrest Gump is on.

I have no problem with a 50 year old man in a strip club.

I know that I can cancel HBO- I consider the after hours adult stuff an irritant cause I have to be careful that if my 12 year old is up late some night that he doens't go surfing through all the channels.

I dont care if people watch porn. I think it is stupid but that is just me. It is always just more of the same. Two (or three) naked people humping. Whatever. what I get pissed about is when the industry comes into our homes uninvited as in the case of the internet with those trick website names and the emails they send out. That is what I would like to see stopped but I am not naive- I know it is impossible and so I just monitor what my youngest boy is doing while he is on-line.

You may not have any problem with a 50 year old in a strip club but most people laugh about him and call him an old perv. That might be discriminatory but that is what people have always said.

[Lynn7]

Porn shoot stuns tourists
Sep 26 12:08 PM US/Eastern



BERLIN (Reuters) - Italian vacationers admiring the view from a fairground Ferris wheel at the Munich Oktoberfest got more than they bargained for when a porn shoot suddenly began inside their cabin, authorities said on Friday.

Having settled down to enjoy a leisurely spin on the wheel at the famous beer festival, the group of Italians were quite unprepared for the arrival of two men toting cameras and a woman who started to use a vibrator.

Unable to stop the shoot, the Italians informed local police, who promptly arrested the actress and her crew, a political scientist and a 25-year-old student.

"They said they weren't doing it for commercial reasons but that they wanted to see how visitors would react," police said. The three have been charged with public indecency.
________________________________________________

Now why do you suppose that the tourists would get upset over this and call the police- it is just sex- they were not harming anyone.

;)

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I know that I can cancel HBO- I consider the after hours adult stuff an irritant cause I have to be careful that if my 12 year old is up late some night that he doens't go surfing through all the channels.

I dont care if people watch porn. I think it is stupid but that is just me. It is always just more of the same. Two (or three) naked people humping. Whatever. what I get pissed about is when the industry comes into our homes uninvited as in the case of the internet with those trick website names and the emails they send out. That is what I would like to see stopped but I am not naive- I know it is impossible and so I just monitor what my youngest boy is doing while he is on-line.

You may not have any problem with a 50 year old in a strip club but most people laugh about him and call him an old perv. That might be discriminatory but that is what people have always said.

In 1988 my father had HBO blocked so that we would have to enter in a password to have access to the channel. All you had to do was punch in the code, and you were in. Myself, my teenage brother and sister could never figure out the code. I'd like to think that nearly a decade later we're more advanced and can still figure out ways to keep the adult material to ourselves and out of the hands of our twelve year olds.

The porno being tossed at you and tricked into you, I agree with. That shit should stop, and can not only cause trouble in the homestead, but it could cause you to lose your job if you happen to click the wrong site on your work computer.

50 year olds aren't being looked at as old pervs. Business and corporate personnel take clients into strip clubs all the time. It's the wretched, unbathed, alcoholic wearing a flannel jacket that we all laugh at and call an old perv, not because he's in the strip club, but becasue he looks poor as shit, unclean, possibly an alcoholic or on drugs, and he's spending what little money he has in a strip club because he's a loser. Take that same 50 year old man, clean him up, and have him dressed in a Sunday suit, casual or golfing attire, and he's not an old perv.

You're just taking a typical 50 year old bum and saying that's every single 50 year old in the strip clubs. I don't think so. That's called 'stereotyping'.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Lynn7

Now why do you suppose that the tourists would get upset over this and call the police- it is just sex- they were not harming anyone.

;)

OH PLEASE.

Don't point out sex offending crimes and try to compare it to REAL pornography!

What those people did were wrong, and your point is way out in left field.



;)

[The Heart Collector]

To even suggest that pornography should be banned is to take a shit all over the United States of America.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Now why do you suppose that the tourists would get upset over this and call the police- it is just sex- they were not harming anyone.

;)


Probably the same reason you or I would call the cops if we saw an underage Catholic kid drinking wine outside a regular church service.

;)

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by TheDeadWalk
In 1988 my father had HBO blocked so that we would have to enter in a password to have access to the channel. All you had to do was punch in the code, and you were in. Myself, my teenage brother and sister could never figure out the code. I'd like to think that nearly a decade later we're more advanced and can still figure out ways to keep the adult material to ourselves and out of the hands of our twelve year olds.

The porno being tossed at you and tricked into you, I agree with. That shit should stop, and can not only cause trouble in the homestead, but it could cause you to lose your job if you happen to click the wrong site on your work computer.

50 year olds aren't being looked at as old pervs. Business and corporate personnel take clients into strip clubs all the time. It's the wretched, unbathed, alcoholic wearing a flannel jacket that we all laugh at and call an old perv, not because he's in the strip club, but becasue he looks poor as shit, unclean, possibly an alcoholic or on drugs, and he's spending what little money he has in a strip club because he's a loser. Take that same 50 year old man, clean him up, and have him dressed in a Sunday suit, casual or golfing attire, and he's not an old perv.

You're just taking a typical 50 year old bum and saying that's every single 50 year old in the strip clubs. I don't think so. That's called 'stereotyping'.

Ask some people (no men under 25) what they think of these business men and the 50 years + people inthe strip clubs- I gurantee you that no one would admire them and that is an understatement.

"Isnt this great? I saw your neighbor Mr.Smith down at the strip club last night- you know, Jessica's father? It was good to see him again. He said to tell you hello!" NOT! :D

[C-Desecration-]

Ask some people (no men under 25) what they think of these business men and the 50 years + people inthe strip clubs- I gurantee you that no one would admire them and that is an understatement.


I think you're right. But did you really have to ask why people think this? It's obvious. I mean obviously obvious.
Nobody pays mind when 20 year-olds go out and get drunk all night, go to strip clubs, so on, because they expect that immaturity from kids. Society expects more from older folks.

What does that prove? Was there any question that jacking off to naked chicks with implants humping Fabio wasn't the most mature thing of the world? Of course porn is immature. An 80 year-old man who watches porn would be looked down on. 20-or-sos wouldn't.
What were you saying with the comment though? I don't understand.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Lynn7
"Isnt this great? I saw your neighbor Mr.Smith down at the strip club last night- you know, Jessica's father? It was good to see him again. He said to tell you hello!" NOT! :D

So we're discussing how it affects gossiping rural towns?

I personally admire anyone over the age of 50 that gets to take clients to a strip club to discuss business. But again, you're looking at admiring, like a hero for a kid or someone to look up to. But still, I answer with "Who cares?" I really doubt people in an NYC strip club or outside of it are really give two damns if a 50 year old business man is going into or outside of a strip club. Just rural gossip towns where people keep their actions under control because they don't want to be the talk of their small town.:p

[The Postmaster General]

Lynn, why are you in favor of the Catholic Church but not pornography.

The Church has had their share of victims, and meets many of the same things you are saying --

You asked about pornography in public which is a crime, just as it's a crime for underaged children to drink - a practice carried out in private by the Church.

You asked about porn fostering child molestors, but the church had done so as well even on an international level.

Why are you unwilling to apply equal standards onto freedom of religion and freedom of speech?

More so, why are you not willing to even address the similarities in lieu of more clear cut arguements? I'm not a penis in your inbox, and I think I've made some pertainent points that have addressed your questions, yet you seem reluctant to think, and just keep asking more questions -- which I'm more than happy to keep answering.



Ask some people (no men under 25) what they think of these business men and the 50 years + people inthe strip clubs- I gurantee you that no one would admire them and that is an understatement.


As a man over 25, I don't really pay attention what goes on inside strip clubs. When I hear about prostitution stings, I thumb my nose up and look down on those involved. But I also don't pay attention to what goes on in the Catholic Church, but when I hear about mass child abuse (no pun) I thumb my nose.

Not all catholics are molestors, and neither are all strip club patrons.

[jeo4]

For the last month, lap dances by professional adult dancers (clothed or not) have been banned in my home state of Missouri. The Republican governor signed this into law and made a big thing out of it, like it was a huge psychological problem in this state. The roads in Missouri are ranked the worst in the United States. Budget cuts have been made to education and government jobs. Virtually nothing has been done to stimulate economic growth in this state. But let's wage war on strippers instead and make the religious right feel better. Sound perfectly logical to me.

:rolleyes:

Most people don't care if some business men go into a strip club for laughs and to talk shop. Why? Because it's not sex and it's not out in public. And before anyone tries to convolute the subject here, these clubs aren't brothels. These are licensed businesses trying to make money and have fun, too. And most of the dancers I've talked to are working their way through college. There's no legal issue or offense in going to the clubs for laughs, a beer, or lunch. That's what these places are made for...entertainment. This isn't some ferris wheel or a public park. But again, if anyone is having too much fun, it must be bad for the entire public. First Amendment rights be damned! Let's write a law banning it anyway!

And while I'm at it, does this mean that middle eastern nations shouldn't use the Koran/Islam to govern their lands, but we should, because our religion is the only right one?? Please. In most protestant religions, Catholics are going to hell for blasphemy. That officially makes them worse than perverts. I saw a bumper sticker on a car the other day that sums it up perfectly:

"This is a democracy, not a theocracy."

Let's at least try to uphold the idea that church and state should be separated. It's only our First Amendment, people.

[Joshmo]

Here's how it works for me as a Catholic.. though I am sure I'm getting it wrong... :p

I go "X" amount of time not beating off or having pre marital sex... (I DO think this is good cause it builds control and helps one stay out of addiction, just like not ALWAYS drinking, its good to not : ALWAYS beat off and or watch porn, etc)

Then..because I AM a sinful fallen creature as my faith teaches we all are and I believe... sooner or later, I cannot ignore my hardon and wanna either beat off or have sex... then I fall into the temptation of doing so....

A few days later I feel bad cause I believe deep down I shouldnt have sinned, but hey, thats why the Church has confession... off I go...

wash...rinse..repeat.... Organized religion and guilt... gotta love it ..or not... :D :( .. the travails of being flesh and spirit :p

I dont wanna see porn banned... its like the last measuring stick of being in a democratic free society and the last bastion of tolerance. I AM for some sort of regulations against the nastier aspects of it... torture, pissing, scat, etc... but I dont pretend to know how to go about it.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
I think you're right. But did you really have to ask why people think this? It's obvious. I mean obviously obvious.
Nobody pays mind when 20 year-olds go out and get drunk all night, go to strip clubs, so on, because they expect that immaturity from kids. Society expects more from older folks.

What does that prove? Was there any question that jacking off to naked chicks with implants humping Fabio wasn't the most mature thing of the world? Of course porn is immature. An 80 year-old man who watches porn would be looked down on. 20-or-sos wouldn't.
What were you saying with the comment though? I don't understand.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that porn is being presented as no big deal but there are some double standards with the way porn is REALLY percieved. It is considered funny if Joe's stag party has a few strippers bopping around but not so funny if Joe is a 55 year old man. People think it's not so bad cause there are college girls doing it to work for their tuition and yet no one would like it if that was their sister or daughter doing it. Porn or strip clubs etc is really a crummy business. Yes, we all have sexual urges and sex is fun but this appeals to our lowest natures and in it's lowest form can become dangerous.

Is it harmful to go out with friends one night to a strip club? Probably not but if a man goes out night after night and sits staring at the naked women it becomes pretty pathetic. You just know that is what goes on in these small town stip clubs.

One night I saw a documentary where they interviewed the strippers and they really hated the patrons.Really hated them. But then they'd go out and put a big smile ontheir faces and try to induce the customers to give them lots of money. It's just not all happy happy in that industry.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
Lynn, why are you in favor of the Catholic Church but not pornography.

The Church has had their share of victims, and meets many of the same things you are saying --

You asked about pornography in public which is a crime, just as it's a crime for underaged children to drink - a practice carried out in private by the Church.

You asked about porn fostering child molestors, but the church had done so as well even on an international level.

Why are you unwilling to apply equal standards onto freedom of religion and freedom of speech?

More so, why are you not willing to even address the similarities in lieu of more clear cut arguements? I'm not a penis in your inbox, and I think I've made some pertainent points that have addressed your questions, yet you seem reluctant to think, and just keep asking more questions -- which I'm more than happy to keep answering.



Ask some people (no men under 25) what they think of these business men and the 50 years + people inthe strip clubs- I gurantee you that no one would admire them and that is an understatement.


As a man over 25, I don't really pay attention what goes on inside strip clubs. When I hear about prostitution stings, I thumb my nose up and look down on those involved. But I also don't pay attention to what goes on in the Catholic Church, but when I hear about mass child abuse (no pun) I thumb my nose.

Not all catholics are molestors, and neither are all strip club patrons.

Some of my closest friends are devout Christians who belong to the Catholic church. Their faith is pure bu the hierarchy of the church has blood on its hands. The way they have conducted themselves around these scandals is disgusting but that does not mean the whole church is rotten- just the rotten people who did the rotten things.

Child molesters go where the kids are- they will become priests and boy scout leaders and whatever else gets them close to the kids. The Catholic church looked at these people as priests who had gone bad rather than bad men who had infiltrated the church in order to get their hands on children undeer the cover of a cleric's collar. Hopefully the church leadership will realize this and get their act straight.

[C-Desecration-]

You know, I already knew all of that. But for some reason I didn't grab onto it during this thread. Because even though plenty of porn stars are more than fine with the occuptation, as tuuka pointed out, the porn industry is home to plenty of degredation and misery, as lynn pointed out. Plenty of workers at strip clubs aren't happy at all with what they do, and sure, in the really bad dives I'll bet plenty of them have had some bad sexual encounters with the clients.
But still. . .there's. . .actually I can't argue that. Because it's true, and I'm sure everyone on this thread can admit that it's true. There's no getting around that. The porn industry is between underground and mainstream (excluding the really gnarly stuff), and because of that, sure, it's going to get more violence than mainstream. Maybe not as much as deep underground businesses, but more than mainstream. And shutting it down would prevent a lot of that, if only people would just hang up that nature and be done with it. But they won't. The best I can say is that porn came about naturally, and if cracked down on, the same thing would continue to happen. It just would. A few bad seeds and sticky morals doesn't really. . .I mean, justify ithis kind of action. Like the article said, it's more or less a big joke.

On the other hand, sure, nobody would want their daughters working in a strip club because it could be dangerous, degrading, who knows. Someone masturbating to porn who suddenly saw someone they knew would screech to a stop, too. So that is a double-standard.
Hm. . .

[Grim H.]

Originally posted by Lynn7
People think it's not so bad cause there are college girls doing it to work for their tuition and yet no one would like it if that was their sister or daughter doing it. Porn or strip clubs etc is really a crummy business. Yes, we all have sexual urges and sex is fun but this appeals to our lowest natures and in it's lowest form can become dangerous.

Is it harmful to go out with friends one night to a strip club? Probably not but if a man goes out night after night and sits staring at the naked women it becomes pretty pathetic. You just know that is what goes on in these small town stip clubs.

One night I saw a documentary where they interviewed the strippers and they really hated the patrons.Really hated them. But then they'd go out and put a big smile ontheir faces and try to induce the customers to give them lots of money. It's just not all happy happy in that industry.

What you're getting to however has relatively no bearing on whether or not the government shoul ban pornography or not, but merely an argument about moderationl. Nothing is harmful in moderation, but the man who goes to a strip club every night is not practicing moderation, thus this becomes an unhealthy obseesion or addiction. But this can happen in anything. Saying that something is unhealthy in excess is not a grounds for banning something. People may or may not practice moderation, and people who don't may become unhealthy, but it's not the government's job to make those decisions for people. I will agree with you about spam invading our privacy and homes. That's solicitation, and is an underhanded way of going about business. But it's just as bad for any business that practices this form of gathering patrons, and the government shouldn't single out just one form of it.


And as far as the strippers hating their patrons. Well, that happens in a lot of businesses. I used to work at a theater, and I really hated the patrons. Really hated them. But then I'd go out and put a big smile on my face and try to induce the customers to give me money in exchange for popcorn...:D

[The Postmaster General]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lynn7
Some of my closest friends are devout Christians who belong to the Catholic church.


And based on what you've been saying, I assume you don't know any pornographers.



Their faith is pure bu the hierarchy of the church has blood on its hands. The way they have conducted themselves around these scandals is disgusting but that does not mean the whole church is rotten- just the rotten people who did the rotten things.


The way some adult businesses have conducted themselves has been improper, but that was just the people who did impromper things.



Child molesters go where the kids are- they will become priests and boy scout leaders and whatever else gets them close to the kids.


Well if you are saying that people can be so influenced by pornography, that it can lead them to go and commit sexual crimes, then why would you not apply the same standards when leaders in an organization conduct the acts? If pornography should be stomped down for that reason, why not the Catholic Church?

You seem to believe that repeated viewings of whatever is going to cause a greater influence of repeated exposure to anything else.

What you seem to be saying is that adult businesses are harbors, sort of victim pools for sexual criminals, and therefore should be restricted. Then you go on to say that organizations like the Boy Scouts of America are places where molestors can go to get near children.

Would you feel better about strip clubs if you had to read a handbook and take a oath, then the older gentlemen could be refered to as like "Strip Clib Leaders" and the younger ones could be like "Beaver Rangers" or something?

Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Assembly are all great things, but they go along with Freedom of Speech. They are like in the same posse, Lynn. You can't take one with out the others showing up to lay down some funk.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by Grim H.
I used to work at a theater, and I really hated the patrons. Really hated them. But then I'd go out and put a big smile on my face and try to induce the customers to give me money in exchange for popcorn...:D

LOL!

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lynn7
[B]Well if you are saying that people can be so influenced by pornography, that it can lead them to go and commit sexual crimes, then why would you not apply the same standards when leaders in an organization conduct the acts? If pornography should be stomped down for that reason, why not the Catholic Church?

You seem to believe that repeated viewings of whatever is going to cause a greater influence of repeated exposure to anything else.

What you seem to be saying is that adult businesses are harbors, sort of victim pools for sexual criminals, and therefore should be restricted. Then you go on to say that organizations like the Boy Scouts of America are places where molestors can go to get near children.

Would you feel better about strip clubs if you had to read a handbook and take a oath, then the older gentlemen could be refered to as like "Strip Clib Leaders" and the younger ones could be like "Beaver Rangers" or something?

Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Assembly are all great things, but they go along with Freedom of Speech. They are like in the same posse, Lynn. You can't take one with out the others showing up to lay down some funk.


I don't think that pornography causes the violence but in people who have that tendency, it fuels the desire. If not, why do they watch it right before they go out to rape and kill?

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing and I am so glad that we have the right to debase ourselves on a massive scale. Remember how backwards we were sexually before the first Playboy came out in the 50's?We have come such a long way since then! Now we have sex on cable, DVD and the internet- we have phone sex and strip clubs and lap dances. We even have the right to go the public library and watch porn on the public computers all for freedom of speech. It is just all so uplifting that I feel a tear about to roll down my cheek. ;)

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I don't think that pornography causes the violence but in people who have that tendency, it fuels the desire. If not, why do they watch it right before they go out to rape and kill?


Because they like those things. As we agree, the material doesn't CAUSE those things. Just that people declared as deviants or offenders will tend to like them, too. I don't think any video, phone sex, or strip club is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I know that I can cancel HBO- I consider the after hours adult stuff an irritant cause I have to be careful that if my 12 year old is up late some night that he doens't go surfing through all the channels.


So, in the past few days, you've gone from making it sound like porn is a detriment to our society that merits legal actions, to it being an irritant.

Hell, smog is an irritant - I'd much rather the government try to do something about that, considering there is medical evidence that it's detrimental to your health. With pornography, all there are is theories -- sort of like evolution.

[Scorpio24]

Lynn,


I don't think you're reasoning for wanting porn banned holds true. As you say a rapist or child abuser may watch porn to get them in 'the mood' but they also may like an ice cream before they fuck up someone's life to.

Like yourself I've done no prior research into the statistics on people who commit a sexual crime straight after watching porn.(Although I have put in substatial hours of research into porn in the last few days for the benifit of this thread of course.;) ) But I'd bet any amount of money that these people were already going to do it full stop. I've never heard of a case where a regular Joe has watched porn and been whipped into such a frenzy that he has felt the need to become a rapist or sex offender.

Being a guy of 25 I don't mind admitting that I enjoy a nice bit of porn every now and then. I have a long term girlfreind who enjoy's it even more. She won't be impressed with me saying that and there's no reason to say it, other than flat out showing off.

However she works in a hospital and she see's women who have been sexualy assualted on a regular basis. She doesn't swear, drink, smoke or do drugs. She's pretty clean living. Yet she watches porn. With seeing all these cases and more to come she is under the same impression as me and a few others on this thread that these people are going to do it if porn is availbe to them or not.

That's the other worry about the possibility of it being made illegal.( I don't think it will for a second. It's just Bush and his pals doing some flirting with the religous right.) Surely the women who do it out of enjoyment and the women who do it out of need would be under much greater threat if it was pushed underground.

Most porn stars are treated like celebrities these days. As much as that disturbs me, I think the attention brings more than a little safety with it.

[Lynn7]

I don't think I ever said I wanted porn banned. I do realize it would neveer work. I would like to see some restrictions on it. I dont' think that it is proper to allow people to go into a public library and view it there.

As far as the HBO sex shows being an irritant it is because I can choose not to watch the shows even though I subscribe to HBO. Waht I have to be careful of is that my 12 year old does not come upon that stuff inadvertantly. I know at some point he will see porn and but I do not think that it is appropriate at this point of his life.

IF it got to the point where I could not be sure that I could protect him from this then I would have to cancel HBO and I would do it. At this point it is OK.


As far as porn being just good clean fun, I would have to say that from a Christian perspective, if it is wrong for the people who are performing in porn movies to be doing it, then it is wrong for the perosn watching it casue they are sharing in the sin. The people who are buying porn are contributng to the industry and are just as guilty as the stars themselves. I realize that by my continuing with my HBO subscription, then I am just as gulity too even if I do not watch it casue my subscription helps HBO to keep putting out this stuff.

As a Christian I think that porn is debasing to everyone involved.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Lynn7
As a Christian I think that porn is debasing to everyone involved.


If you were a Muslem, or Jew, you'd probably still think it's debasing to everyone involved.

No?

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I don't think I ever said I wanted porn banned. I do realize it would neveer work. I would like to see some restrictions on it. I dont' think that it is proper to allow people to go into a public library and view it there.

As far as the HBO sex shows being an irritant it is because I can choose not to watch the shows even though I subscribe to HBO. Waht I have to be careful of is that my 12 year old does not come upon that stuff inadvertantly. I know at some point he will see porn and but I do not think that it is appropriate at this point of his life.

IF it got to the point where I could not be sure that I could protect him from this then I would have to cancel HBO and I would do it. At this point it is OK.


As far as porn being just good clean fun, I would have to say that from a Christian perspective, if it is wrong for the people who are performing in porn movies to be doing it, then it is wrong for the perosn watching it casue they are sharing in the sin. The people who are buying porn are contributng to the industry and are just as guilty as the stars themselves. I realize that by my continuing with my HBO subscription, then I am just as gulity too even if I do not watch it casue my subscription helps HBO to keep putting out this stuff.

As a Christian I think that porn is debasing to everyone involved.


Point conceded on being able to watch porn at a public library. I agree that there should be limitations to where and how you can view it. If to protect children and nothing else.

What I can't help feeling when I read a response that has the good Christian perspective to it, is how.......... I don't know I can't even think of a word to put to it. It's just something that bugs me when I read a point of view on something such as this, that from a Christian point of view it's worng.

Well from a Christian point of view it's wrong to kill but that doesn't stop the deeply religous president killing thousand upon thousand of innocent people for his own agenda. It always comes back to the good Christian perspective. And in my opinion Bush is going straight to hell.

I might add at this point that I am Christian myself. But i'm not blinded by it enough to not see, when it is someone's right to do whatever it is they want to do for a living. I'm also not blined by it enough to not see when someone is trully a horrible person that they shouldn be exscused because they follow the same religion as me. I'd be amazed to find out that God thinks Bush is doing all the right things.

Foriegn goverments are slammed for govening under the rule of religion. But Bush is trying to govern the same way. Well actually he's not. He's doing whatever the hell he feels like and then hiding behind his Christian pov.

Back to the porn. - There are plenty of other things more dangerous than two strangers getting it on. Cigarettes, alcahol and gamblling to name but a few are much more worrying to me. Addictions to two of those things will kill you and addiction to the other may as well. Addiction to porn(1 of your claims about it being bad.) is something i'd be much less inclined to worry over if someone I knew had it. Damn in fact i'd be a little jealous.

It probably, like many things, comes down to point of view. I just think I'd rather catch my son with a porn mag than with a fag in his mouth. If we are going to look at things with a Christian perspective about what's right in life lets start with the presdient and work our away down.

[C-Desecration-]

If we are going to look at things with a Christian perspective about what's right in life lets start with the presdient and work our away down.

Since the gal has answered this maybe five jillion times, I'll just echo so nobody else has to waste their breath. . .
Bush is protecting us from evil men, he doesn't enjoy killing, it's no more un-Christian than going after somebody threatening your family, fight them over there so we don't fight them over here, so on so on so on. That should've been obvious there, scorpio.

But I'm glad everyone agrees that banning porn is pretty much out of the question, whether because it's stupid or won't work.
Good news is, although it might be irritating to get emails and have porn invading homes, is it really hurting anything? Honestly? So it's irritating. So might be a bummer for a young kid to see. Scorpio, if your kid came across porn would it crush him, ruin his life, warp him into a savage rapist? Lynn? Yours? No? So putting aside everything but simply the invasion of home life, porn is pretty harmless in the big picture.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Scorpio24
It probably, like many things, comes down to point of view. I just think I'd rather catch my son with a porn mag than with a fag in his mouth.

I just know thought that it would be hilarious if there was a religious anti-smoking group in the U.K. called "God Hates Fags".

And Lynn is right about porn is debasing everybody. Look at places like Iran, where they treat their women like queens (don't get me started on those poor, poor men who are paid money to have sex with hot women).

She's also right: althought the bible never once mentions porn, it's always accurate at pointing out evil things we shouldn't do. Like eating shrimp.

[TheDeadWalk]

I also wanted to include that I don't think porn is fuel for anyone to do any violent crime. To me, it's not even an assistant. (legalized porn)

To anyone who watches a video and then allows it to manifest into a live rape is someone who needed more than pornography to satisfy his urges. To these people, the porn does not fill their sexual desires enough, so they must find a new medium and that is to act out.

I do not agree that by watching a sex video or even a simulated rape pornography video would give anyone the drive to go and actually participate in a rape.

Watching a subway commercial does not fuel me to go out and eat subway. I am simply just not satisfied with looking at pictures of people eating a sandwich, therefore I must act out on my quest and get a sandwich of my own. Nevertheless, I am the fuel and drive to make me act out after seeing a subway commercial. Not the commercial itself.

[C-Desecration-]

I do not agree that by watching a sex video or even a simulated rape pornography video would give anyone the drive to go and actually participate in a rape.


It's more that porn can become addictive, perhaps even influential if you get what I mean, and that someone exposing themselves to that sort of thing might become inclined to enjoy it. Everything you watch has an affect on you. Usually it's so tiny you don't notice, but sometimes, if you watch it enough, see it enough, it'll bloat.
A person with certain repressed urges, instead of becoming addicted to a healthy life and doing away with those urges, might become addicted to something worse, and, eventually, begin to act. That's not to say porn is to blame, because everyone is going to find some sort of outlet.

So it's not about making them do it, it's about drawing them into it. Of course porn isn't the sole blame, and shouldn't be blamed at all, so it's not much of an argument.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
It's more that porn can become addictive, perhaps even influential if you get what I mean, and that someone exposing themselves to that sort of thing might become inclined to enjoy it. Everything you watch has an affect on you. Usually it's so tiny you don't notice, but sometimes, if you watch it enough, see it enough, it'll bloat.
A person with certain repressed urges, instead of becoming addicted to a healthy life and doing away with those urges, might become addicted to something worse, and, eventually, begin to act. That's not to say porn is to blame, because everyone is going to find some sort of outlet.

So it's not about making them do it, it's about drawing them into it. Of course porn isn't the sole blame, and shouldn't be blamed at all, so it's not much of an argument.

Repressed urges within the individual human psyche is the key. Therefore, the fuel is already there.

If you become inclined to enjoy actual rape or people be dismembered and wish to act on it, I don't believe that the psychology of the films have affected you towards that, it's more of a deviancy or mental instability within your own psyche that is allowing this.

The whole debate was with Lynn7 actually coining the term 'fuel' for rapists and murderers who watched porn before killing in the documentary(ies) that she watched.

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Waht I have to be careful of is that my 12 year old does not come upon that stuff inadvertantly. I know at some point he will see porn and but I do not think that it is appropriate at this point of his life.

It's been only a few years since I was 12. When I was 12, I made a little movie starring me and a female classmate in my mind, and I think you could imagine what it was about. :D

If your kid views porn, I doubt it will be anything more filthy than what's on his mind every thirty or so seconds.

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
[B]Since the gal has answered this maybe five jillion times, I'll just echo so nobody else has to waste their breath. . .
Bush is protecting us from evil men, he doesn't enjoy killing, it's no more un-Christian than going after somebody threatening your family, fight them over there so we don't fight them over here, so on so on so on. That should've been obvious there, scorpio.[B]


Oh right.

So obvious, that you have some kind of intelligence that the CIA, US and UK goverments do not that states that the civillians of Iraq were planning on invading the US???

Or maybe it was due to the fact that Bush needed to start a war so that Saddam couldn't use those weapons of mass distruction he never had????

Or maybe it was due to the fact that Saddam was involved with Bin Laden????? A fact that was thrown out as not true.

Mmmmm yea it is fairly obvious when you think about it. Bush was doing the right thing by his Christian point of view.

You've taken one line out of all i've written and taken it out of context. I was using that statement to show a point to Lynn that the Christian point of view can't be used because porn is bad only for a blind eye to be turned on Bush when he murders people in an illegal an unjust war.

[C-Desecration-]

You've taken one line out of all i've written and taken it out of context. I was using that statement to show a point to Lynn that the Christian point of view can't be used because porn is bad only for a blind eye to be turned on Bush when he murders people in an illegal an unjust war.

I really doubt she believes it's an illegal and unjust war.
But I'll let lynn answer, even though she's answered this very question so many times before, in nearly every thread. That said, I agree with you. But there's no fact here that can make a person not believe Bush is acting as a good Christian. Not a'one. That all depends on your opinion of him, whether his actions are sleazy and unjust or moral and right. I figure Lynn would side with the latter, if only because. . .well. . .she keeps saying it.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by Scorpio24
Point conceded on being able to watch porn at a public library. I agree that there should be limitations to where and how you can view it. If to protect children and nothing else.

What I can't help feeling when I read a response that has the good Christian perspective to it, is how.......... I don't know I can't even think of a word to put to it. It's just something that bugs me when I read a point of view on something such as this, that from a Christian point of view it's worng.

Well from a Christian point of view it's wrong to kill but that doesn't stop the deeply religous president killing thousand upon thousand of innocent people for his own agenda. It always comes back to the good Christian perspective. And in my opinion Bush is going straight to hell.

I might add at this point that I am Christian myself. But i'm not blinded by it enough to not see, when it is someone's right to do whatever it is they want to do for a living. I'm also not blined by it enough to not see when someone is trully a horrible person that they shouldn be exscused because they follow the same religion as me. I'd be amazed to find out that God thinks Bush is doing all the right things.

Foriegn goverments are slammed for govening under the rule of religion. But Bush is trying to govern the same way. Well actually he's not. He's doing whatever the hell he feels like and then hiding behind his Christian pov.

Back to the porn. - There are plenty of other things more dangerous than two strangers getting it on. Cigarettes, alcahol and gamblling to name but a few are much more worrying to me. Addictions to two of those things will kill you and addiction to the other may as well. Addiction to porn(1 of your claims about it being bad.) is something i'd be much less inclined to worry over if someone I knew had it. Damn in fact i'd be a little jealous.

It probably, like many things, comes down to point of view. I just think I'd rather catch my son with a porn mag than with a fag in his mouth. If we are going to look at things with a Christian perspective about what's right in life lets start with the presdient and work our away down.


Yes, Bubba- Muslims and Jews feel the same about porn as you well know! ;)

As D-Desecration pointed out Bush is not murdering people. The whole point of the bible (well one of them) is that it is what is in your heart that counts. Bush wants to protect our country and he wants to help the Iraqi people. It really bothers me when he is compared to the terrorists as if both causes have equal merit- they just don't. We seem to be taught that every perspective is equally right. Whose best interests do the terrorists represent? No ones.

Anyway, back to porn. You might think it is less harmful to watch porn than to smoke and you are right about that when it comes to the health of the physiological body; however, in the Bible, Jesus told us not to fear those who could kill your body but those who could kill your soul. Watching porn is dehumanizing to all concerned. Are the woman in that industry treated with any respect? If a male porn star came to your wedding how would he be treated? He would be talked about behind his back with scorn and be in disgrace. These people are marginalized in a shadow world that is not welcome to the light of day.

FEar those who can kill the soul. What is it that kills the soul?

Sex is beautiful, fun and sexy when you are in a committed relationship. When you are in a string of one night stands or watching porn, sex becomes a mechanical frenzied release with no depth, no caring. That is the loss of the soul, in my opinion.The soul is about a person's depth of spirit. But in the biblical context it also has to do with the evil one (Satan) looking for ways to pull people away from God. Porn is one way of doing that.

[C-Desecration-]

As D-Desecration pointed out



I think I'm going to cry.

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by Lynn7
If a male porn star came to your wedding how would he be treated? He would be talked about behind his back with scorn and be in disgrace. These people are marginalized in a shadow world that is not welcome to the light of day.

See.......

I think that's my point. If I was at that wedding my problem wouldn't be with the porn star. It would be the idiots who feel the need to talk about him behind his back.

I don't think it is a shadow world at all. And personally I tend not to judge people on their occupation.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Scorpio24

I think that's my point. If I was at that wedding my problem wouldn't be with the porn star. It would be the idiots who feel the need to talk about him behind his back.


Most people don't worry about what the gossiping old ladies in the pews have to say. If a few less of them existed, more people might be inclined to actually show up in church, too.

I really don't care if people want to talk about me with scorn behind my back, and I don't think anyone should care at all. People like that can just go to hell, and people that worry about that need to visit the city more often.

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by TheDeadWalk

I really don't care if people want to talk about me with scorn behind my back, and I don't think anyone should care at all. People like that can just go to hell,


Wait a minute. After reading Lynn's posts. She certainly is pouring scorn on them and feels that they would be talked about behind their back. Are you saying she should go to hell.;) :D

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by C-Desecration-
I think I'm going to cry.

I am a miserable typist- sorry C!!!!

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by Scorpio24
Wait a minute. After reading Lynn's posts. She certainly is pouring scorn on them and feels that they would be talked about behind their back. Are you saying she should go to hell.;) :D


I am the one who feels badly for them!!! I think they are used and abused by those who would have a good time.

People can acuse the ones who gossip but that is the way of the world. As I've said before, Madonna thought she could break the sex-taboo barrier with her book Sex and those sexy videos but instead she was made fun of like no one I've ever seen. She has since come to regret it all. Why? Becasue society did not accept her (but now they do as a children's author!!)

[The Postmaster General]

I agree with you Lynn.

We disagree in this respect though --- For matters such as this, I will always push for infiltration and always against declaration.

Massive religiously fundamental cultural attacks would end up being on scale with the Woodstock revolution - things would change on the surface, but in the end, it may shift more toward the opposite intentions (ie. 60s kids grew up to become 80s yuppies, and so-forth)

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I am the one who feels badly for them!!! I think they are used and abused by those who would have a good time.

People can acuse the ones who gossip but that is the way of the world. As I've said before, Madonna thought she could break the sex-taboo barrier with her book Sex and those sexy videos but instead she was made fun of like no one I've ever seen. She has since come to regret it all. Why? Becasue society did not accept her (but now they do as a children's author!!)


I didn't say you felt badly for them. And I apologise for the joke. That was a little off.


Society is very fickle and I think you prove the point when has you say a woman who was trying to be everything sex in her early career can now be respected for being a good mother and childrens author.

I don't think people in the porn industy are being taken advantage of in anyway. Don't get me wrong if somebody is forced into working in strip bars or brothells then yes it is a terrible situation. But I don't see that as the porn industry. Thats crime rings or independant owners doing that stuff. They should be targeted no doubt. But the porn industry is now one of the biggest makets in the world. The people involved get paid very well. And in this I include the women and men. I have to seen documentaries on the subject and the figures that were being thrown around made me feel like quitting work to join the circus.

I worked with a girl when I was just starting out in employment who quit her job to work in a strip bar. She had a little girl and she was struggiling with money problems. Well needless to say that she isn't now. She takes home more in a night than I do in a week. She swears she has never once slept with any of the customers so I really can't see the harm in that.

Anyway I'm not going to post anymore on the subject as we could go dizzy. I don't think I've posted my points very clearly on this so that hasn't helped. Just to sum up. I think that targetting situations where women are being used or abused in the mirky area of this industry is right. But I think there are far more worrying problems in society we could concern ourselves with, other than porn. And I think thats fair to say from a legal pov, as well as a christian one.