Bush: God Told Me To

[someguy]

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Bush_allegedly_told_Palestinian_leaders_God_1006.h tml

not surprising

[Lynn7]

People can laugh at this but Christians know that God does speak to us. He has spoken very clearly to me at times- not in an audible voice but through a storng impression- the tricky thing is knowing when He is talking to someone else. anyone can say God told me too- I ahve no idea if it is true or not so I go by the bible.God never tells you to do anyhting that goes against the bible.

As far as President Bush goes, the bible is very clear about the fact that God appoints all the leaders for His own agenda. That whole Bush/gore thing was preordained. I happen to believe that all of the trouble Bush went thru prepared him for the difficult presidency he would have.I'm glad he is in prayer and I know God is leading him becasue he is the leader of our great nation.What I don't know is what God's plans are in all of this. We could all be dead from bird flu in a year or two.

[Joshmo]

Pat Roberston is a preacher and claims to be in prayer and in touch with God as well...he also professes to be Christian. So... if you think God (if thats who you think Bush is in touch with) wouldnt tell someone to do something bad...do you also beleive that Pat was inspired by God to publicly call for a Hugo Chavez assassination?

The bible says many things... Jesus also said that the day will come when those who he condemns will say, "but lord..didnt we mention your name to others"?.. and Jesus will tell these hypocrites to "Depart from me you evil doers, for I never knew you."

Just cause someone says they believe isnt enough. We need to look at the fruits of their actions and if they are leading Christian lives.

Personally, I dont think Bush nor Pat are good Christians.

[someguy]

Originally posted by Lynn7
As far as President Bush goes, the bible is very clear about the fact that God appoints all the leaders for His own agenda.

So Hitler's holocaust was God's agenda? I mean, he appoints leaders for his own agenda so....

[Criminal Rock]

Comming from that website... ha. That website might as well be called fuckrepublicans.org, or bushfuckingsucks.com

[Lynn7]

Well, like I said, I don't know if God what God is telling others to do but I know if their actions go agaisnt what the Bible teaches that it cannot be true cause God will not contradict his own Bible; therfore I know that Hitler was not led by God- however, I don know that God allowed him to be in command at that time and he also allowed the things to happen that happened under Hitler. Like I said, God has his own agenda and it isn't the one we have. The Bible says that God and SAtan are in a sort of duel for the hearts and minds of humans and the bigger picture isn't what happens to us here but after we die. Like I said in another post, God said don't fear those who can kill the body but fear instead those who will kill the soul.

[TheDeadWalk]

Lynn, your intentions are well and good, but they really come off illogical.

God appoints all leaders until someone brings up Hitler. Which means that God doesn't appoint all leaders, and that the plan that seemed so clear a few posts ago have suddenly become askew.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not an athiest, nor am I anti-religion. I've been taking a troubled road for years trying to find myself. But it doesn't help when I see people of the Christian faith give out puzzle pieces that really don't fit.

How do you tell a child that you are right in your ways for listening to God, but someone of the Islam religion is evil for doing what they feel is God talking to them and guiding them towards a peaceful world? How do you do it? Honestly? Sometimes when I look at the big picture I cannot tell the difference between Christian Conservatives and Radical Islamists. It confuses me even more.

By talking of the pre-ordained plan, you've basically said that there is no sense of free will. Everything is pre-determined. That leads me to think about the pre-determination concept of the Protestant religion that was founded in the early colonization period here in America. People were supposedly born determined to go to Heaven or to Hell. There was no choice. If this is the concept and I felt that I was a devout Christian enough, I would just let myself go and see where my path leads me because obviously I have no control over my surroundings and should just embrace it one day at a time and let the chips fall wherever God may plant them.

But I don't think that's the concept.

[someguy]

this is why i shouldn't leave the reply on for so long and check for any new replies, basically deadwalk covered everything i said so there's no real point for my post being here :p

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by TheDeadWalk
Lynn, your intentions are well and good, but they really come off illogical.

God appoints all leaders until someone brings up Hitler. Which means that God doesn't appoint all leaders, and that the plan that seemed so clear a few posts ago have suddenly become askew.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not an athiest, nor am I anti-religion. I've been taking a troubled road for years trying to find myself. But it doesn't help when I see people of the Christian faith give out puzzle pieces that really don't fit.

How do you tell a child that you are right in your ways for listening to God, but someone of the Islam religion is evil for doing what they feel is God talking to them and guiding them towards a peaceful world? How do you do it? Honestly? Sometimes when I look at the big picture I cannot tell the difference between Christian Conservatives and Radical Islamists. It confuses me even more.

By talking of the pre-ordained plan, you've basically said that there is no sense of free will. Everything is pre-determined. That leads me to think about the pre-determination concept of the Protestant religion that was founded in the early colonization period here in America. People were supposedly born determined to go to Heaven or to Hell. There was no choice. If this is the concept and I felt that I was a devout Christian enough, I would just let myself go and see where my path leads me because obviously I have no control over my surroundings and should just embrace it one day at a time and let the chips fall wherever God may plant them.

But I don't think that's the concept.

Do I know all the answers of the world? No. All I know is that there is something between God and Satan (see book of "Job" and also "Isaiah" about Lucifer's fall). I know that God loves us and wants us to come to him and that Satan is trying to get us away from God. God appoints the leaders is what the bible says. He does have an agenda. He is moving this world in a certain direction and it will go toward the events listed in Revelation. Revelation is not going to come about by accident. Do we have free will. Sure we do. I can choose what I want to do and God will deal with me according to my choices.

Hitler was not a good man who God changed into a bad man. He was bad and he came to poweer and God did allow it. Did God desert the Jews or the Christains who were slaughtered during that time? No. He says that he is with us when we walk through deep waters. He said that in this world we will have tribuation but to be of good cheer cause He has overcome the world. He promises a next life with NO pain, death or evil. That is sweet to me.

[KcMsterpce]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Do I know all the answers of the world? No. All I know is that there is something between God and Satan (see book of "Job" and also "Isaiah" about Lucifer's fall). I know that God loves us and wants us to come to him and that Satan is trying to get us away from God. God appoints the leaders is what the bible says. He does have an agenda. He is moving this world in a certain direction and it will go toward the events listed in Revelation. Revelation is not going to come about by accident. Do we have free will. Sure we do. I can choose what I want to do and God will deal with me according to my choices.

Hitler was not a good man who God changed into a bad man. He was bad and he came to poweer and God did allow it. Did God desert the Jews or the Christains who were slaughtered during that time? No. He says that he is with us when we walk through deep waters. He said that in this world we will have tribuation but to be of good cheer cause He has overcome the world. He promises a next life with NO pain, death or evil. That is sweet to me.

I think what some people are trying to say about the lack of logic is that how can one say that Bush is not also a bad leader that God allowed to take command, because in the past the same has happened. Such as Hitler, or Carrot Top, or Caligula, whatever.
Hitler had almost all of Germany hoodwinked into thinking he was a great man with nothing but the best intentions.
Followers of a leader that mass numbers believe in - no matter which country, religion, or whatever else - think that that person is right.
What I feel that others are trying to put out to you is the concept that maybe Bush ISN'T a nice guy, and how can you be the judge of who's with God or not? Of course you love and support Bush, but it always mystifies me how you can see no faults in any of Bush's decisions, and you justify everything he does by quoting the Bible and emphasizing that Bush is a family man.
Meanwhile, there have been countless others in history who do God's will, yet we all know that it wasn't the God that fits with the teaching of the Bible. Is pre-emptive strike against an opponent what God wants according to the Bible? What about the teachings of the New Testament? Does labelling someone who doesn't agree with your point of view as an Axis of Evil the "Christian" thing to do? I always thought that God wanted you to love everyone, but I'm probably wrong. Sure, Bush has good intentions because he's doing "God's will", but not everything he does is absolutely faultless and in line with the teachings of any version of the Bible I've read.

I'm also not saying Bush is a bad guy, or a bad President. I'm just trying to bring about a point that has been trying to be addressed to you so many times before. I doubt this will make you say anything different, because I always read replies saying "Yes, God is talking to Bush because Bush is good, but Hitler was bad!"

Reminds me of THE LIGHTER SIDE OF in Mad magazine once. It was THE LIGHTER SIDE OF.... RELIGION. A man was interviewing smokers. This smoker was a Priest. The Priest says, "God created nicotine, which means that it is not a sin to smoke."
Interviewer: "So, it's also OK to smoke marijuana then?"
Priest: "Oh no, the Devil created marijuana, so that's bad!"

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Do I know all the answers of the world? No. All I know is that there is something between God and Satan (see book of "Job" and also "Isaiah" about Lucifer's fall). I know that God loves us and wants us to come to him and that Satan is trying to get us away from God. God appoints the leaders is what the bible says. He does have an agenda. He is moving this world in a certain direction and it will go toward the events listed in Revelation. Revelation is not going to come about by accident. Do we have free will. Sure we do. I can choose what I want to do and God will deal with me according to my choices.

Hitler was not a good man who God changed into a bad man. He was bad and he came to poweer and God did allow it. Did God desert the Jews or the Christains who were slaughtered during that time? No. He says that he is with us when we walk through deep waters. He said that in this world we will have tribuation but to be of good cheer cause He has overcome the world. He promises a next life with NO pain, death or evil. That is sweet to me.

No one expects you to have all of the answers in the world. You simply laid parts of your religion out on the table that you've found difficult to back up.

The problem with the bible is that so much of it contains cultural references withheld by the men who wrote it in their time period, and the book of Job is a story just like that. I don't believe that God would contest with Satan and allow him to torture a man, and his family to test his faith. If he did allow this, then he does not actually keep himself greatly involved with our mortal affairs.

To think that God actually intertwines himself about our mortal affairs is quite a peculiar thought, as well. You talk of his sayings, but I'm led to believe that they are small riddles that some people take too literal. God is science, God is nature, he is relativity, he is good. He is within us, and we are within him. But he's not sitting up in the Heavens like a chessmaster like some wicked episode of Pinky and the Brain. He is within us all, as we are one led to live out our lives within this structured realm to choose our own destiny, and create our own battles. To hear voices in your head and feel that you must act out on them is a mental disorder called Schizophrenia, also created by God.

His agenda is set and completed. He didn't set out a master plan to have George W. Bush win the election over Gore in 2000. If he did, then your idea of free will is at fault, because everyone either had the free will to vote Bush or Gore, or they did not. The electoral votes decided.

There is no concept of time in Heaven, and Big Brother is not guiding us. Too often I hear of people in the middle of a troubled marraige and if it ends in divorce they say "God wanted me to move on, to seek out greener pastures", but if the marriage was saved, then "God willed us to be together." No, he didn't. You are the cause of your actions. You are the controller of your destiny. We are not chess pieces in some immaculate game, because if we were, then there is someone above God who is making him play this game, and I do not believe that there are any other layers that we must worry about. God is above and beyond all, and to serve his whole existence in effort to compete with a fallen Angel makes this world and our lives somewhat futile. I believe there is a chance in Hell, or purgatory for those wicked enough. But I don't believe that there is any challenge, or battle, because in essence the battle is over nothing, because when the war is done after the rapture then the whole basis of existence whether in Heaven or Hell is obsolete.

I am not a chess piece.

Do I expect to know everything? No. But I have my own ideals too. And I am trying to find what I'm looking for without reaching too high, because I have to accept the fact that there are things so much greater in this existence that my human mind does not have the ability to comprehend, only question.

[electriclite]

What the fuck happened to "Free Will"?

[KcMsterpce]

Originally posted by electriclite
What the fuck happened to "Free Will"?

I think it had two sequels, and no one gave a shit about them and why WOULD they make a sequel about a boy and his whale, anyways?

Since then, the series has been ripe for being the butt of jokes and adult film titles based off of the title.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by electriclite
What the fuck happened to "Free Will"?



It got its lunch money stolen by Original Sin.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by KcMsterpce
I think what some people are trying to say about the lack of logic is that how can one say that Bush is not also a bad leader that God allowed to take command, because in the past the same has happened. Such as Hitler, or Carrot Top, or Caligula, whatever.
Hitler had almost all of Germany hoodwinked into thinking he was a great man with nothing but the best intentions.
Followers of a leader that mass numbers believe in - no matter which country, religion, or whatever else - think that that person is right.
What I feel that others are trying to put out to you is the concept that maybe Bush ISN'T a nice guy, and how can you be the judge of who's with God or not? Of course you love and support Bush, but it always mystifies me how you can see no faults in any of Bush's decisions, and you justify everything he does by quoting the Bible and emphasizing that Bush is a family man.

Does labelling someone who doesn't agree with your point of view as an Axis of Evil the "Christian" thing to do? I always thought that God wanted you to love everyone, but I'm probably wrong. Sure, Bush has good intentions because he's doing "God's will", but not everything he does is absolutely faultless and in line with the teachings of any version of the Bible I've read.

Reminds me of THE LIGHTER SIDE OF in Mad magazine once. It was THE LIGHTER SIDE OF.... RELIGION. A man was interviewing smokers. This smoker was a Priest. The Priest says, "God created nicotine, which means that it is not a sin to smoke."
Interviewer: "So, it's also OK to smoke marijuana then?"
Priest: "Oh no, the Devil created marijuana, so that's bad!"

I used to love the "Lighter Side of" in Mad. Of course we can make fun of how people interpret or misuse their religion.We are proabaly all guilty of that to justify what we want to do.

But, the Bible is a clear cut book that has very clear messages. There are some things that are left a little hazy but there is enough there to understand who God is. Most people believe that Jesus was at the least a very good man and yet he spent a lot of time talking about Satan and there are even references where he spoke to him- Depart from me... There is one incident where demons had inhabited the bodies of sheep ( I meant to ssay pigs!!) and when Jesus came upon them they begged him not to kill them- they recognized His authority. There is stuff going on in the spiritual world that we do not know about- we get a glimpse of it in Isaiah and in Job.

As I've said before I will only support Bush if he follows the bible- if his message starts to conflict with the bible I am against him. I would actually rather have an atheist as president than to have a man who pretends to be a Christaian. You can usually tell people by their fruits, as the bibke says.

I have found Bush to be kind, loyal, tender, loving and extremely compromising. He turens the other cheek despite the constant horrific attacks on his character. He is good in my book.

[electriclite]

Thank you for those humorous replies gentleman. It definitely helps let the steam out of my frustration. But I do have this little comment to say.


Saying "God told me to.", is the same thing as saying the "Devil made me do it". Its saying you have abdicated any sort of responsibility for any action you're really responsibile for.

One thing every Christian knows is that God gives us free will, therefore allowing us the choice to follow his rules and teaching, which He was nice enough to have written down (10 commandments anyone?), or ignore them and listen to the Devil or our own desires.

I don't feel God interferes in worldly events. We call him "Father" for a reason. Just like our parents, after a certain age they can't make us do what they want, they just hope that we have taken in the lessons they've taught us and use them when we're adults. That's what God does. We went to church, we learned the 10 commandments there are no surprises in what He would like from us,

There is the belief that God is in everything, and it is evident when people do good things. Just like people see your parents in you when you do something that is usually attributed to them, its the same here.

Basically God has given you your lessons, you know better, and you have the choice of whether to follow them or not.

No puppetry involved.

[The Postmaster General]

But Original Sin disrupts Free Will, and that is where God comes in. People should do as God tells them, because he will lead them away from sin.

Or something like that, according to the gospel.

[Lynn7]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheDeadWalk
[B]No one expects you to have all of the answers in the world. You simply laid parts of your religion out on the table that you've found difficult to back up.

The problem with the bible is that so much of it contains cultural references withheld by the men who wrote it in their time period, and the book of Job is a story just like that. I don't believe that God would contest with Satan and allow him to torture a man, and his family to test his faith. If he did allow this, then he does not actually keep himself greatly involved with our mortal affairs.
______________________________________________-

It does not matter what you or I beleive about how the "spirit world" works, what matters is that is what the bible says and we can choose to beleive it or not. I beleive it. I don't think God was being cruel- he was bragging about Job and Satan said the only reason Job was so good is because he had a charmed life- he was rich, had good health, a good family, etc. Now I'm sure at that time there were people who were very sick, poor and had broken families. Tha tis the way of the world- all God did was accept Satan's challenge that he would be allowed to disrupt his life but even at that, God set the parameters of what would be allowed. Job came through fine and God doubled his blessings. I think it is not about what goes on in our puny lives but what goes on in the spirit world. That is the eternal world.We could all be dead tomorrow from biological attacks or bird flu and then our lives are over here- but the next life is the eternal one.

I did not create myself. I ahve no control over anyhting except my little life and even that is debatable. I am happy to serve a good God and accept His plan for my life. I ask him to guide me and to lead my life and wow has He been great to me. I ahve also had some veery rotten times too but that is what happens. In those times I ask for His help. I feel good about Him but until I began reading the bible I didn't know who He really was. Now that I do I have a good comfort level.

_________________________________________________

To think that God actually intertwines himself about our mortal affairs is quite a peculiar thought, as well. You talk of his sayings, but I'm led to believe that they are small riddles that some people take too literal. God is science, God is nature, he is relativity, he is good. He is within us, and we are within him. But he's not sitting up in the Heavens like a chessmaster like some wicked episode of Pinky and the Brain. He is within us all, as we are one led to live out our lives within this structured realm to choose our own destiny, and create our own battles. To hear voices in your head and feel that you must act out on them is a mental disorder called Schizophrenia, also created by God.

His agenda is set and completed. He didn't set out a master plan to have George W. Bush win the election over Gore in 2000. If he did, then your idea of free will is at fault, because everyone either had the free will to vote Bush or Gore, or they did not. The electoral votes decided.

There is no concept of time in Heaven, and Big Brother is not guiding us. Too often I hear of people in the middle of a troubled marraige and if it ends in divorce they say "God wanted me to move on, to seek out greener pastures", but if the marriage was saved, then "God willed us to be together." No, he didn't. You are the cause of your actions. You are the controller of your destiny. We are not chess pieces in some immaculate game, because if we were, then there is someone above God who is making him play this game, and I do not believe that there are any other layers that we must worry about. God is above and beyond all, and to serve his whole existence in effort to compete with a fallen Angel makes this world and our lives somewhat futile. I believe there is a chance in Hell, or purgatory for those wicked enough. But I don't believe that there is any challenge, or battle, because in essence the battle is over nothing, because when the war is done after the rapture then the whole basis of existence whether in Heaven or Hell is obsolete.

I am not a chess piece.

Do I expect to know everything? No. But I have my own ideals too. And I am trying to find what I'm looking for without reaching too high, because I have to accept the fact that there are things so much greater in this existence that my human mind does not have the ability to comprehend, only question.
__________________________________________________ _-

Since I believe the bible I think that God did choose to have Bush in control He controls a lot of stuff. He also has set things up to run on their own. I beleive it is kind of a mix of the two but ultimately it is God's world that He created and he has the right to do whatever He wants whenever and however he wants. If He wants to play chess with us He can, but all indications in the bible are that He really loves us and is working thimgs out to our benefit. He is not some evil tyrant playing games with us. I think the bible says we are like grass and we will wither up and dry away. How true! Even the great scientests are just as vulnerable to getting hit with bird flu. Teh last time an epidemic hit it killed like 50 million people. I don't think God is playing games but He is obviously dealing with an overview we do not have. Only He can deal with things on this magnitude and yet be so intimate with each one of us that Matthew 10:29 says every hair on our head is numbered- he knows us intimately.

[TheDeadWalk]

Yes, because that is mathematics. Every hair is numbered. He is us, and we are Him shaped in His eternal image.

But to think that He has a master plan that involves whether you get your job or not, or whether or not you move to a new house, He has no special accord with the deciding process in that. He doesn't decide what would be best and personally guide us like we are his version of the Sims.

The blades of grass analogy fits well. We are all blades of grass on our lawn. But do we investigate and keep the ants from uprooting certain blades of grass, or nurture this other piece of grass that is having a hard time? No. We give the grass sufficient water to survive, keep it mowed, and try not to let the neighbor's dog defecate on it. The blades of grass meanwhile are left to themselves to live life to the fullest and end up wherever they may.

Like I mentioned, the Bible has a lot of good things and nice points to it. But the bottom line is that it is a testimony of history or men who said that God chose to speak through them. Some parts are highly affected by the culture of the time and contain biases or flaws that only man could commit. Flawed like Joseph Smith and his book of Mormon.

You do have control over your life, and that is in essence, your "everything". You did not choose to be born, but now that you have developed yourself enough to spread away from the teachings of your parents, you are in control. You may not always have control over your children, husband, or other loved ones, but the decisions and consequences of those decisions are all rooted by your actions. I would like to think that God has better things to do than see if I'm getting my FMHA loan right now, or not.

The whole basis of Good Vs. Evil IS a game. God created evil. He could disband Satan if he chose to, but he didn't. There is no battle to be won, because he can and will win it at anytime that he chooses to. That is like my step-daughter and I battling over the blades of grass in our front lawn. It is so simple, so trivial. Yes, I believe He wants us to go in the right direction, but not in a Supernatural prescence on Earth. Everything that He is on Earth, is natural. He is the result of your choices and the consequences for your mistakes. He is either and or.

He has the right to do whatever He wants, yes. He can at anytime. But I do not believe that his whole nature of existence is by guiding us into the right directions. He set up the playing field for us, and we are the players. He is the omnipresent referee who makes his decisions to penalize or not to penalize "after-the-fact".

And if we want to go by the bible, and discuss who was appointed by a deity, I wouldn't be so quick to say that God would have selected George W. Bush. I think that draft pick would belong to the other guy.

[Lynn7]

I think He controls the direction the world goes in but maybe he even controls our lives to some extent cause that is what Psalm 139 says. It also says that god so love dhte world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever beleives in him shall have eternal life (paraphrased John 3:16) so that seems to say we have free choice to believe or not. So I think it is a mix of the two.

In the bible it is pretty clear that God wants us to be in communication with Him and he wants us to look to Him for advice and guidance. No where in the bible does it say that he is just sitting on top of the world unconnected with us or our lives. If you look even thru the Old Testament where he is presented as pure lawmaker- he was very tender to those who loved him and he answered prayers of the most unlikely people. There is even a prostitute in the geneology of Jesus becasue she beleived in God and helped His cause. He knows us intimately, he hears our prayers and He wants us to obey Him. That is what I think Bush is doing faithfully. I have no way of knowing what God says to President Bush but If Bush is praying and he is following what God is telling Him then all will go well for us, IMO>

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Lynn7
He promises a next life with NO pain, death or evil. That is sweet to me.

That's nice.

It's too bad all those 6 million children who were gassed, tortured, humiliated, shot (somehow this dosen't count as abandoning them) are now roting in a lake of fire for not accepting christ as their savior. Better luck next time.

Oh, and why did god lie to Bush about their being WMDs in Iraq? How about not informing him that amost nobody would want to stay the course all the way to the end? Either god is fibbing or Bush is.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I think He controls the direction the world goes in but maybe he even controls our lives to some extent cause that is what Psalm 139 says. It also says that god so love dhte world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever beleives in him shall have eternal life (paraphrased John 3:16) so that seems to say we have free choice to believe or not. So I think it is a mix of the two.

In the bible it is pretty clear that God wants us to be in communication with Him and he wants us to look to Him for advice and guidance. No where in the bible does it say that he is just sitting on top of the world unconnected with us or our lives. If you look even thru the Old Testament where he is presented as pure lawmaker- he was very tender to those who loved him and he answered prayers of the most unlikely people. There is even a prostitute in the geneology of Jesus becasue she beleived in God and helped His cause. He knows us intimately, he hears our prayers and He wants us to obey Him. That is what I think Bush is doing faithfully. I have no way of knowing what God says to President Bush but If Bush is praying and he is following what God is telling Him then all will go well for us, IMO>

Yes, you look to him for guidance and answers. You look at his ways to see how he would want to do things, not see if he will fulfill your soul and lead you to the right choice. If my father passed away tomorrow I would be able to look to him for guidance and answers because of the things he has done while he lived on this Earth. Look through history and take the testimony for what it's worth and see what He might have done.

I don't think there is any disconnection. Like I said, he is science. He is our surroundings. We are him, we breathe him, we are a part of him. I just don't think he is actively involved in helping mortal problems of those who follow his faith. That doesn't mean disconnection, that just means free will to the fullest extent even though we are engulfed in him and his world.

We must see and look at some of the double standards and revelations that do not make sense. Make full use of the euphemisms and metaphors that are given to us and not take them so literal. There is no whisper in our ear.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by MacReady
That's nice.

It's too bad all those 6 million children who were gassed, tortured, humiliated, shot (somehow this dosen't count as abandoning them) are now roting in a lake of fire for not accepting christ as their savior. Better luck next time.


I was at a funeral for my girlfriend's nine year old niece who passed away. (She was quadripeligic) The subject got onto how she never actively was able to go to Church, understand it, or believe in God.

The Pastor stated some scripture about how there are no children in hell. He said there are adults, and teenagers, but no 'children' which I would assume is defined as twelve years and under.

Take that for what it's worth.

[Lynn7]

I beleive that God holds us accountable for what we know and are capable of knowing- I think that children are clear. Jesus says for us all to strive to be like children. I think even teens who have not been exposed are in the clear.God is fair.As far as kids getting killed or suffering that is only in this world and he didn't want that to happen to us but sin came into the world because we (thru Adam and Eve) did not want to accept his authority over our lives- wee needed to be iin controll and thought we knew best- it is human nature to do this.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

I think some of us are missing the point here. Just because some schmuck says God told him to do something, doesn't mean that he actually did. As for God pre-ordaining leaders, where the hell have you been? I seriously doubt God was pushing for Pol Pot when the Khmer Rouge took over Cambodia. It's not a question of whether God exists or not, because I cannot say I know. All I do know is that we have free will, so we can elect any dickhead we want to.

Going back to what Lynn said earlier, I think it's a bit ridiculous to say that God made Bush live a shitty life before he became president so he'd be prepared. He partied, snort coke, and had a father who got him into Harvard. Now, a horrible life would be doing all that and not having someone to bail you out. Besides, Hitler had a horrible life before he took power (and no I'm not comparing Bush to Hitler).

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I beleive that God holds us accountable for what we know and are capable of knowing- I think that children are clear. Jesus says for us all to strive to be like children. I think even teens who have not been exposed are in the clear.God is fair.As far as kids getting killed or suffering that is only in this world and he didn't want that to happen to us but sin came into the world because we (thru Adam and Eve) did not want to accept his authority over our lives- wee needed to be iin controll and thought we knew best- it is human nature to do this.

We're taught what we know by our parents. God dosen't come to earth and tell us who's right. Hell, any evidence that he might exist can easily be manipulated to make it look like it's their god. How does this possibly an eternity of torture. That's like if somebody cuts you off in traffic without even seeing and you retaliate by finding out where he and his family live, burn down his house, steal all his possesions, boiling his loved ones and pets alive, all while making him watch this just before you kill him slowly in the course of a several long hours with a nail clipper, sniping at him with it's tiny blades until he finally bleeds to an agonizing death.

Seriously, according to the bible Gandhi is in hell right now (he sure wasn't a kid when he died). I find it sickening people can justify that.

[Lynn7]

Well, Christians believe that God has come to earth as Jesus. God incarnate. It's funny but reading your descriptions made me think of something I just read yesterday about the guy the character Dracula was based on- I think his name was Vlad the impaler and he would impale people and while they were groaning all around him he would eat and feast and drink their blood to make himself more powerful. If a friend or a woman was unfaithful to him he would impale them but then have them skinned alive to increase their suffering. So there are lots of examples of extremem evil inthis world.God wants to save us out of this evil but only the ones who choose to follow him. It's their decision.


Brando,
Christians believe that sometimes God allows us to go through trying circumstances to prepare us for things to come- the bible is loaded with stories like this especially Kind DAvid's trials and Josephs' trials- they both went on to be great leaders.

You can say but Bush is not a great leader and I will respond that we will only know in years to come how great Bush was or wasn't but if God has been leading him then he will be proved right.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Well, Christians believe that God has come to earth as Jesus. God incarnate. It's funny but reading your descriptions made me think of something I just read yesterday about the guy the character Dracula was based on- I think his name was Vlad the impaler and he would impale people and while they were groaning all around him he would eat and feast and drink their blood to make himself more powerful. If a friend or a woman was unfaithful to him he would impale them but then have them skinned alive to increase their suffering. So there are lots of examples of extremem evil inthis world.God wants to save us out of this evil but only the ones who choose to follow him. It's their decision.

Thank you for pointing out you're worshipping somebody as cruel and hearltess as Vlad The Impaler.

Oh, and about the topic at hand there's only thing I have to say:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/cartoons/2005-10-15-5.gif

'Hi George — it’s God again.'

[The Postmaster General]

How's she comparing them? She's contrasting Vlad's evil against God's goodness.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
How's she comparing them? She's contrasting Vlad's evil against God's goodness.

She mentioned Vlad and then I decided to use him to show god's ideology when a human does it.