Heisman Trophy winners.

[mindkiss69]

Since 1989, excluding last years Matt Leinart, who is still in college, the majority of Heisman Trophy winners haven't fared well in the NFL.

Of the last 16 Heisman winners, only 4 (Ricky Williams, Eddie George, Charles Woodson, and Carson Palmer) have gone on to meet the expectations that where placed on them prior to their enterance into the NFL. Of the four, two have arguably not met expecations. So, this brings the question, why do you think that so many of the so-called "best players in College" have been "bust" and haven't lived up to the accolades that where placed on them

Some Past Heisman winners


2004 Matt Leinart Southern California QB
2003 Jason White Oklahoma QB
2002 Carson Palmer Southern California QB
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB
1998 Ricky Williams Texas RB
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan DB/WR
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB
1995 Eddie George Ohio State RB
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB
1992 Gino Torretta Miami QB
1991 Desmond Howard Michigan WR
1990 Ty Detmer Brigham Young QB
1989 Andre Ware Houston QB

[brodeurnumber1]

In 1988, the greatest RB ever won the Heisman, so that means something. Out of that list, only Andre Ware, Rashaan Salaam, and Ron Dayne are fairly large busts. Howard was a bust, but he did win a Superbowl MVP.

But, the thing is the Heisman measures nothing to the players actually talent, moreso to the talent around them and the stats they have.

[Buck Turgidson]

I think Dayne and Woodson have had solid, if unspectacular, NFL careers. I'd take Dayne, who always gives his all, over Rickey Williams and his trite Duane Thomas act, any day.

Howard somehow got on Gibbs' shit list from day one. I always wanted to see him integrated into the offense better than he was. That guy we saw in the SUper Bowl against the Pats and all the rest of that year? That was the real Desmond Howard. Hard to pile up stats when you sit on your ass because the coach doesn't play you.

Some on these QBs (Wuerfel, Weinke, Detmer, Ward) were guys because of size deficiencies, general lack of NFL-level skills or other factors (in Weinke's case, being a relative old fart.) were never going to make it in the NFL. Ware's situation is analagous to his scuccessor, the non-Heisman winner, but still quite acclaimed and accomplished in college David Klingler, who flailed about unpleasently in the NFL for a while before facing facts.

I sort of miss the days when a guy would hit the scene and make a huge impact right away (Billy Sims, Earl Campbell, Marcus Allen, Barry Sanders) but even in that era, there were guys whose college accomplishments didn't translate to the pro game (Johnny Rodgers, John Cappelletti, Steve Owens, Steve Spurrier...)

[AnnoyingQuestionAsker]

A big problem, especially for Heisman winning quarterbacks is that they go so early in the first round of the draft, thus going to really crappy teams. Similarly, the scheme these guys run in college are one of the main attibutes to their stats. Danny Wuerffel in the Fun N Gun, Ware (and Klingler) in the Run N Shoot and Crouch with the powerful option game (and ridiculous Offensive Lines).

But one thing people forget about a guy like Andre Ware is that he virtually came out of nowhere to win the Heisman. I can't recall, but he played on television either once or not at all during that Heisman season. Most people had never even heard of him. That is a true testament to his abilities. Also, a qb getting drafted by the Lions in the early nineties was a kiss of death (same is true for the Bengals).

I think the trend is changing a little with more NFL coaches coming back to coach colleges - Carroll @ USC, Weis @ ND, Groh @ UVA, Wannstedt @ Pitt, Callahan @ Nebraska, etc. Also, more perennial college programs are moving towards a pro-style offense, rather than gimmicky-offensives (though the Urban Meyer's spread offense @ UF and Leach's offense @ Texas Tech do give many defenses fits).

[mindkiss69]

You make a good point about the style of offense run. That, more than anything is probably the main reason that these guys don't make the smooth transition to the next level. But then again you gotta ask the question, should these Heisman winners still be looked at as the BEST overall talents in the College game? Certainly they fare well under certain systems, but some of these Heisman winners have proved that they can't do it in different scenarios. Should the Heisman commitee change the way they select the so called "BEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYER"

[AnnoyingQuestionAsker]

This is why Cody Hodges of Texas Tech, despite putting up huuuge numbers, was never even in the debate of Heisman candidates.

This is why this year's Heisman ought to go to Reggie Bush because it seems like he is the type of player that you can put into any situation and he will run wild. The same would be true if Michael Vick hung around VaTech. There is just electricity and people cannot help but watch in amazement.

[Buck Turgidson]

I saw Vick do things in those two years that I've never seen anyone do. Like you say, he just has a vibe.

Bush undeniably having that is why he's often compared to Gale Sayers, even though he reminds me just as much, with his height, upright running style and broad shoulders, of O.J. Simpson and Eric Dickerson.

[bigred760]

I'm a Virginia Tech grad and saw Vick (from the field too - awesome) play. Michael Vick was a heisman candidate his freshman year (redshirt) and was injured for a game or two his second which kept him out of the running. Somebody mentioned getting drafted early; Vick was the first overall pick - was back up his first year and has won the majority of his games ever since. He was amazing at VT, he's amazing in the NFL. He's been able to grow and adjust in the pros - which is what I believe is the major problem most Heisman winners have, in my opinion.

Hell, Heisman winner Jason White was not even drafted in the 2005 draft.

[mindkiss69]

How well do you guys think that Reggie Bush will do in the NFL?

[psudoazn]

I think Reggie Bush will do well in the NFL if he stays healthy. But it will take time -- especially if he goes to a craptastic team like SF. Teams wont be able to help him much if Bush is the only decent offensive player on the team.

Vince Young was the other serious candidate for the Heisman this year. The knock on Young is that even though he is clearly skilled, his problem is that his offense doesn't adapt well to the NFL game. Do you really think that stingy NFL defenses will allow him to run like a runningback? He's definitely talented, but it remains to be seen whether he can make a difference.

[brodeurnumber1]

Originally posted by mindkiss69
How well do you guys think that Reggie Bush will do in the NFL?

I think he'll be a good player, but not nearly as good as people think. I think he'll average 1200 yards and 6 TD's a season. For some reason, I'd take DeAngelo Williams coming out this year over him.

Oh, and Jason White would have probably been a 6th or 7th round pick last year if he didn't have two bad knees. He might have even been higher.

[mindkiss69]

Originally posted by psudoazn
I think Reggie Bush will do well in the NFL if he stays healthy. But it will take time -- especially if he goes to a craptastic team like SF. Teams wont be able to help him much if Bush is the only decent offensive player on the team.

Vince Young was the other serious candidate for the Heisman this year. The knock on Young is that even though he is clearly skilled, his problem is that his offense doesn't adapt well to the NFL game. Do you really think that stingy NFL defenses will allow him to run like a runningback? He's definitely talented, but it remains to be seen whether he can make a difference.

Vince Young reminds me of Mike Vick. I think he'll be able to scramble around a bit, but eventually when teams start picking up on his scambling tendencies, he's going to need to become a quaterback that can read coverages and make decisions with precision. Actually, at this point in his career, I'd put him over Vick--as far as passing goes-- when Vick was a rookie in the NFL. Let's remember this, though : Vince Young is going to be going back to college next year so he'll become more of a well rounded quarterback. From last year to this year, he has already grown leaps and bounds as far as his recognition of defense goes. If his progression continues, slowly, in large incriments he may become a outstanding passer.

[meccajay]

The problem is that the award in not the best player in college football, but the best player in college football who's: playing in D-1 school, team has a winning record, an offensive player(most likely), games are on national TV.

After all Marshall Faulk & Steve McNair were 2 of the greatest "college" players there ever were, but wouldn't come close to being actually selected because of the level of play they were on.

There lies the problem...

BTW, who won the Heisman the last year Faulk played?

[mindkiss69]

I remember that year that Marshall was tearing up defenses. I was only 8 years old at the time, but I knew that he had to have been one of the best players that year--I was extremely knowledged in sports even as a little kid. But Charlie Ward took it that year.

I think that the problem that alot of Divsion 2 and lower players face is the perception that alot of people hold that their incredible numbers are due to the fact that the players they're playing against aren't of the highest caliber.

As far as the disperity of recognition for a hesiman spot that offensive players receive over defense players, I can't agree more. Defensive players often get overlooked and I don't know why. One can't honestly brush aside the impact that players like Brian Urlacher and Ray Lewis have on the game.

The method of picking heisman canidates is very flawed in my opinion.