Hollywood is fucking disgusting.

[thedudeman69]

Ok, before you take this rant as a "NO! it is too early to make a movie about 9/11" rant.

First of all, I just heard of two 9/11 movies coming out this year. first the Oliver Stone directed World Trade Center, and second there is a movie directed by Paul Greengrass of Bourne Supremecy fame directing a movie based on what the people on Flight 93 did.


Ok, first of all. I have to say that I am disgusted that two renown directors are doing these movies and that this is a sheer case of profit for these studios and the filmmakers. They don't care about the 3,000 people that died, or the 40 people that died on Flight 93. They just care about a profit to be made off of these movies.They are provoking the fears of people after 9/11 into getting them to get off their asses and see one of these two flicks. I am revolsed at the fact that Hollywood would sneak to such a low level to make money.

If you want to see what I am talking about. here is the trailer for Flight 93.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/universal/flight93/

[MacReady]

When can we expect your rant on Spielberg's repugnant exploitation of the Munich massacre?

[ChemicalRomance]

Now that these two 9/11 films are coming out we are obviously seeing a lot of distaste towards their productions. However I see this as pretty strange because in 2001 when Michael Bay released Pearl Harbor you heard much fewer complaints. Why? It is just as devestating an event on the American people and nation as a whole that killed many and propelled us into a war just like 9/11.

It's contradicting of filmgoers to presume that 9/11 shouldn't be made now, but 40 years from now. Even I myself feel that it shouldn't be made this immediatley (less than five years later?!). However the way I see it was that when Pearl Harbor came out did people just completely forget about the event that completely shook America in December 1941? 60 years later it seemed like people completely forget the event and just went to see a cool action flick. Don't you not want that to happen to 9/11? Isn't it better to not have it 60 years from now when there is a new generation that barely understands the events because they didn't live through them? I know I can't take in the full effect of Pearl Harbor because I wasn't even close to existance in 1941.

Less than 5 years is too soon but 60 years is too many. If you want to make a true statement through the medium of film about that terrible day it's better to present it to a generation that can fully grasp what happened that day. I, myself, am from Long Island, New York in a town called Rockville Centre which lost many many people that day. I feel like 9/11 is still an extremely sore subject. I don't feel like these films are being made completely for the so called "profit". I feel like the Flight 93 movie will make the names of the heroes of that flight more household and it will become more of a widely known story, a fascinating one of bravery and risk. The movie might re-provoke the fears of the post-9/11 mindset but I really think that's only if the films attempt to recreate the devestation in full effect, which in my mind, after such a short time would be distasteful. I don't exactly how to feel..

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by MacReady
When can we expect your rant on Spielberg's repugnant exploitation of the Munich massacre?

I am talking about in the sense of being done tastefully. Munich looks like it did that.

[Backstabba]

I just don't think they should be made this soon, I think it is WAYYY to early for a 9/11 movie, let alone 2 of them.

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
They are provoking the fears of people after 9/11 into getting them to get off their asses and see one of these two flicks.

In that case, Hollywood is falling in line behind the President, the Congress, every 7/11 in America that sells flags and trinkets about 9-11, security companies, oil companies, charities, etc.

I'm actually surprised it's taken this long for them to exploit such a big event. I guess there was DC 9-11. When did that come out?

I am revolsed at the fact that Hollywood would sneak to such a low level to make money.

Now that's just funny.

[< a c e >]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making a movie about 9/11.

Firstly, you seem pretty convinced that the film-makers don't give a rat's ass about the people that died.

Secondly, what the hell is "tastefully done" ?
Just because a haldheld-cam is used to show a character silently suffering for about a minute, with no BGM, doesn't mean it's tasteful.
Sorry, If I'm coming off rude, cuz that's not my intention.

"Taste" is a subjective issue varying with each film-maker.

And this is definitely not Hollywood stooping to a new low. Simply because i don't consider this to be a cheap blow, and even if it was, hollywood has gone much lower before.

Although i do agree with Backstabba on some level.
This might just be a little too early...might just!

[Cronos]

im one of those who thinks its too soon for these films to be made

[Jamesadin]

Agreed. Why reopen the wounds in which a neighbor/cousin/brother/friend/stranger had to go through not too long ago? Do it in another 30 years, I don't want to see it happen again.

[Deckard]

Originally posted by Jamesadin
Agreed. Why reopen the wounds in which a neighbor/cousin/brother/friend/stranger had to go through not too long ago? Do it in another 30 years, I don't want to see it happen again.

Heres an idea. Dont go see the movie. If you want to live in a bubble and deny the things that are happening in the world around us fair enough.

But some of us,who have been trying to learn as much about the event as possible since it happened. Reading books, reports, watching documentaries, researching discrepancies and generally trying to learn the truth. What lessons can be learned from this tragedy?

We are very curious about what the Polittically correct retelling of the events of that day are, how will america rewrite history??.

If its a patch on PEARL HARBOUR we could be in for the laugh out loud comedy film of the year. Though Greengrass showed he can tell historical stories in an objective way with BLOODY SUNDAY and Oliver Stone has never been one to shy from the bigger picture and put a balance to the medias constant propaganda.

Duck and cover...

[bigred760]

First of all, where've you been thedudeman69? These movies have been in the works since late 2004, early 2005. There have been several discussions on this matter on these boards already. And actually, I think there might be a third movie on the subject floating around.

I also agree with ChemicalRomance's assesment that nobody complained about Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor when it came out - even though that's considered to be the original "day of infamy." I'd also like to throw in Titanic; a lot of people died on that tragic day when the boat went down, but nobody cried for those victims. Apparently, it's not the concept matter that's controversial, but the date of the movie's release.

I have not seen Titanic or Pearl Harbor and don't see myself doing so anytime soon. But I think it's more because the movies are fictional love stories based on factual tragedies. That's what makes it even worse to me.

I think the 9/11 movies are steering clearing of the love stories and trying to stay true to the actual events.

And I don't think these movies are being made for profit only. Paul Greengrass, Oliver Stone and Nicolas Cage aren't that cruel or stupid. I think it's partly to keep in mind what happened in 2001 and, like ChemicalRomance said, to (re-)recognize the heroes of that day.

Whether it's too early or not for these movies, I don't know. But if you think it is, don't go watch it.

[Joshmo]

Chemical Romance raises a good point about not waiting too long, but at least putting "some distance" Its all about good taste, and yes I still believe in some decorum and dont always buy into the notion its "all relative"..no its NOT.

But c'mon Shmoes...There must be movie buffs here who KNOW that we didnt "wait" 60 years to make a movie about Pearl Harbor...PLEASE tell me you guys dont think Pearl Harbor (though a well done film) is the only movie to cover the attack! :eek:

The FIRST movie to deal with Pearl Harbor in film was: From Here to Eternity 1953- 12 years after the events. PH was a RAW time, so here I can almost see why it took 12 years after the actual events to make some semblance of it to film. This was a romanticized version like Bays PH...

Next was: In Harms Way: 1965

Then what is considered the ultimate motion picture on PH:

Tora Tora Tora: 1970 So here we have 29 years before HW (Collaberating with Japan) to finally face the reality of these events on film

Then there was "Winds of War" a 1983 TV mini Series.

The point is we didnt wait 60 years to begin telling the story.

I think its a little too early to address this on film. I also think its much more complicated cause I believe our Govt knew ahead of time (which documents have proven) but my opinion is instead of buying into their shit about intelligence failure, they ALLOWED it. Is THAT gonna be covered while Gov Bush is still holding the White House and the country hostage? HW doesnt have those of kind of balls.

[jaw2929]

Originally posted by Joshmo
I think its a little too early to address this on film. I also think its much more complicated cause I believe our Govt knew ahead of time (which documents have proven) but my opinion is instead of buying into their shit about intelligence failure, they ALLOWED it. Is THAT gonna be covered while Gov Bush is still holding the White House and the country hostage? HW doesnt have those of kind of balls.

Absolutely agree, very well said.

[Skittle_boy15]

Originally posted by Joshmo

I think its a little too early to address this on film. I also think its much more complicated cause I believe our Govt knew ahead of time (which documents have proven) but my opinion is instead of buying into their shit about intelligence failure, they ALLOWED it. [/B]

I was always under the impression that Roosevelt and/or his administration knew in advance about Pearl Harbor's attack as well and yet nothing was done about it. So if that is the case then it would add another similarity to the PH vs 9/11 debate.

[Joshmo]

Yep...FDR knew and this has only been addressed in books from recent years...60 years later and STILL nobody has the balls to call out the American Govt (in a movie) on how PH was ALLOWED to happen in order to shore up American sympathy and outrage to get involved in WWII...which I supported us entering but I condemn the US for how they went about it.

[Sheriff Wydell]

Originally posted by Joshmo
Yep...FDR knew and this has only been addressed in books from recent years...60 years later and STILL nobody has the balls to call out the American Govt (in a movie) on how PH was ALLOWED to happen in order to shore up American sympathy and outrage to get involved in WWII...which I supported us entering but I condemn the US for how they went about it.

Of course they don't. They'll be killed, easily, the American Political System is way too powerful to be called out.

What did you think of Moore's World Trade Center Attack film?

[Raoul Duke]

Haven't there already been several made for tv movies about the attacks already? None got very much attention..I'd think more people would be disgusted at the events being poorly slapped together with commercials also shown.

[Andrew Ratto]

.

[blk_flower]

oh please with every year people will always say it's too early for a 9/11 film. There will protaginists all the time forever that will ditest a 9/11 film, it's going to happen sometime so please get over it unless if you were a victim of the attacks then I'm sorry.

[bigred760]

Originally posted by Andrew Ratto
What I want to know is plain and simple: the point. Why are these films being made? To raise awareness? Completely unnecessary. To relive the horror? Sounds sadistic. We all experienced the event, to a certain degree. We know just about everything there is to know about 9/11. We've watched TV specials, read magazines, watched the news and engaged in conversation. We experienced the event from the inside. America is not only hyperaware, but educated and empathetic towards "9/11". So...what's motivating this production?

Maybe they think it's necessary. Maybe they want to inform. Maybe they want to pay their respects. And I seriously doubt we know all there is to know about 9/11. I'm quite sure a few movies will resolve that also.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by bigred760
Maybe they think it's necessary. Maybe they want to inform. Maybe they want to pay their respects. And I seriously doubt we know all there is to know about 9/11. I'm quite sure a few movies will resolve that also.

You seriously have to be a dumbass to not know how 9/11 happend.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
You seriously have to be a dumbass to not know how 9/11 happend.


Quote of the week.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by therealjohng
Quote of the week.

Is that good or bad? :confused:

[AWP82]

Quote of the week? Shit...that sounded like a borderline personal attack to me (unless I got the context wrong).

[blk_flower]

that trailer for this movie wasn't that all great at least we know that much so far.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by AWP82
Quote of the week? Shit...that sounded like a borderline personal attack to me (unless I got the context wrong).

Nah, it wasn't a personal attack. He was just laughing at the joke that I made.

[SkyNet]

in every TV show these days, about terrorism, and there are ALOT... at least once an episode we can expect a 9/11 reference... because 9/11 puts a real face on the fictional terror being portrayed on the screen.

So, what is the big difference of every single TV show making references to 9/11 and these 2 movies?

We have to know the amount of research that has gone into these movies, because they have to represent what exactly happened to the T. With Pearl Harbor, Titanic and movies of that nature... the events happened so long ago, and most the people involved have passed... but with 9/11 movies there is a certain delicacy needed to represent what happened and to be respectful. I personally am looking forward to these 2 movies, i want to learn something about that day, about what happened and about why that day will haunt every single person who was alive to witness it, for the rest of their lives. You ask anyone what they were doing on 9/11 when they heard about the attacks, and they can tell you, some right down to what they were wearing.

[Deckard]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
You seriously have to be a dumbass to not know how 9/11 happend.

I think maybe you should go to a few of these websites and read a few books before you tell me how much you think you know about the events of that day. There are still a few unanswered questions about what transpires on 9/11, from those who were actually there..

www.letsroll911.org

A lot of its more entertaining than informative but....it only takes one to be true. We certainly know that just like Pearl Harbour, America was well aware of a planned terrorist attack...and decided to ignore it

Try watching a couple of docos called LOOSE CHANGE & "9/11: IN PLANE SITE".....sure 90% has been proven at least misleading and some of it is utter bullshit....but there a few glaring discrepencies in the official story still unanswered........

For a more objective eye on the subject and IMO the best site for information about the events, check out...

www.911research.wt7.net

and

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=9&c=y



I dont think things are that black and white as soem like to believe. When it comes down to what happened that tragic day, there are still some glaring conflicts of facts vs fiction.

Either way there is far more to this tale of mindless death and desctruction.

Just sing to yourself.....

Money makes the world go round.The world go round. The world go round............................................. ...........oh and Oil.


Oh that reminds me check out a doco called OIL FACTOR : THE WAR ON TERRORISM. Possibly the most informative of all the docos on what could possibly motivate this kind of mindless killing.



Enjoy..

[thedudeman69]

Why the fuck should I trust the internet for information? The internet is just full of conspiracy theories. and half of the people that post their idea of what happend probably didn't even watch the news when it did. They probably make shit off the top of their heads. "Oh, I saw a cow fly into the building and explode." So, don't try and force the stuff that you believe is fact, down my throat. I can belive what I want.

[Deckard]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
Why the fuck should I trust the internet for information? The internet is just full of conspiracy theories. and half of the people that post their idea of what happend probably didn't even watch the news when it did. They probably make shit off the top of their heads. "Oh, I saw a cow fly into the building and explode." So, don't try and force the stuff that you believe is fact, down my throat. I can belive what I want.

Just out of curiousity, do you believe in censorship?????

Dude, Dude. calm Down nothings fucked. Your being very undude.....

Firstly I wasnt trying to ram anything down your throat. Or god forbid tell you to blindly trust anything you see, read or hear. Always make up your own mind.

Thats kind of the point. I just thought your comment was a little closed minded. Considering there are experts on the subject who are still trying to sort out what happened on 9/11.

I wasnt encouraging conspiracy theorists, I was encouraging imagination. Knowledge is power.

I was just giving you the oppurtunity to open your mind. NOTHING is ever black & white and there are always at least 2 sides to every story. Not just right and wrong, good and bad, there are shades of grey.


After all this event did trigger a war, which is still resulting in the loss of many lives. I think its important enough to look at closely and try to learn from what happened.....like who, what, where, when, how and why

All I was doing was encouraging research. I gave you links to sites dealing with both sides of the argument- the poular mechanics site above debunks 90% of the conspiracy claims........leaving only 10% of mystery?.

I did also mention READING BOOKS and watching DOCUMENTARIES on both sides of the subject................ Of which there are many...like so many other events in the history of the World......

Just listen to George Carlin, Bill Hicks or Richard Pryor to have a laugh about the whole thing

All Im saying is that it is possibly there is more to the story than u may think........as with most things that happen there is always alot we are not told..................There is no need to cite examples because they are still in the public conscience after many years

Why not explore all possibilities then make up your own mind about what you learn? Rather than just blindly following.

Sure you may end up in the same place but you might learn something too


Bottom line- sorry if I offended you.

For me its fun and entertaining to explore new ideas and hear many sides of the same story.......there is often some truth even in the most outlandish lie...

Hopefully some of it fuels your imagination to think of the infinite possibilities and mysteries life holds if you open your eyes...............

or you can choose to ignore it. Free thought. Free Choice. Free Speech its a gift.

Its kind of like Kurosawas RASHAMON meets George Orwell's 1984 only real life and real death........



*********The Dude Abides. The Dude Abides. There's something very comforting in that.*************
Sam Elliot as The Narrator in The Big Lebowsi

[MacReady]

I know I'm a little late (and certainly slow) but to hell with it

Originally posted by thedudeman69
I am talking about in the sense of being done tastefully. Munich looks like it did that.

How do you know it won't be tasteful?

[AWP82]

Deckard, you took the words right out of my mouth. It's always good to explore every possible angle and make up your own mind. I know it's a pretty sore subject for a lot of people, but that shouldn't stop anyone's quest/thirst for knowledge. If I were directly affected by the attacks, I'd sure want to know more than just what the white house tells me. Given what's happened between then and now, I can't really trust all their information (then again, I hardly did in the first place). I'm not a conspiracy theorist or political expert, I just have an inquisitive nature.

That said, I wonder how moviegoers would feel about a fictionalized version of 9/11 for entertainment purposes. Not the actual WTC attack, but some other similar type of terrorist attack (in place of 9/11) with a fictional plot, inspired by the historical events. The premise could be a Terminator-esque time travel scenerio where someone comes back through time from the future to stop the attacks before they happen. A "what if?" scenario, if you will. Think Terminator meets True Lies, loosely based on actual events, with a fictional plot. Reality-based fantasy. This movie would do for 9/11 victims what Death Wish did for street crime victims. It would come out in say...10-20 years. How's that?

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by MacReady
How do you know it won't be tasteful?

Ok, Spielberg has done films on some uneasy topics. The Holocaust(Schindler's List), The USA invasion of Normandy(Saving Private Ryan), and now the murder of 7 Israeli athletes. So, when a director has to handle a uneasy topic in the film, he has to do it as tastefully as he can and hope that people like it. It can backfire on him, which I know that World Trade Center will on Oliver Stone because he made Alexander gay, for Christ sake. Anyways, Spielberg is too big and too powerful to make a bad movie on such a uneasy topic among Israeli-Americans. He would be lambasted by his own religon if he did a horrible portrayal. So, the first thing on his mind would be how the hell can I show what happend and yet respect the people that caused it to happen.

It could be a tough film for his career or a horrible one.

[chinton]

Im actually curious to see what happens with this. I remeber everybody tore Stone apart for JFK and thats a masterpiece

[Deckard]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
Ok, Spielberg has done films on some uneasy topics. The Holocaust(Schindler's List), The USA invasion of Normandy(Saving Private Ryan), and now the murder of 7 Israeli athletes. So, when a director has to handle a uneasy topic in the film, he has to do it as tastefully as he can and hope that people like it. It can backfire on him, which I know that World Trade Center will on Oliver Stone because he made Alexander gay, for Christ sake. Anyways, Spielberg is too big and too powerful to make a bad movie on such a uneasy topic among Israeli-Americans. He would be lambasted by his own religon if he did a horrible portrayal. So, the first thing on his mind would be how the hell can I show what happend and yet respect the people that caused it to happen.

It could be a tough film for his career or a horrible one.



Well firstly Alexander The Great was BI Sexual long before Oliver Stone was born. I dont think he had any influence on how Alexander lived his life. And, no I didnt think the film was good, but Alexander sexuality had nothing to do with my decision.

Its a shame we live in an immature, homophobic culture that closes its mind to possibilities and seems determined to ignore facts if they dont fit their moral code. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Just look at how the mainstream media is ridiculing Brokeback Mountain.

Secondly, the way Speilberg made Schindlers List in a way to not offend every one was to change Schindler's motivations and basically make a completly politically correct film. The end result for me was offensive and uninspired. Read the book instead if you want to know the truth, which tells a different tale to that which Spielberg put on screen.

[Andrew Ratto]

the

[The Heart Collector]

Oliver Stone MADE alexander gay? AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Psychocandy]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Oliver Stone MADE alexander gay? AHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'll second that.

[Deckard]

Oliver Stones influence transcends space and time

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by Deckard
Oliver Stones influence transcends space and time

Yeah, that is what Natural Born Killers did.


Besides, on all this Oliver Stone shit. He skews all of his flicks so he can tell what happend his way.

[Deckard]

When I said "Oliver Stone transcends space and time" it was meant as a joke.

The joke was that according to you, Mr Stone can travel back in time (maybe in a machine) and influence Alexander The Greats sexuality. Either that or you dont know much about the real Alexander.


Sorry the humour went over your head.

You dont really read many History Books or watch stuff like Discovery Channel, National Geographic or The History Channel do You???

Just be thankfull you dont know about what the ultimate males, Spartan warriors used to do the night before a big battle.


Me, Im on a quest for knowledge, can never have to much information IMO.

[HeavyFknMetal]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
Ok, before you take this rant as a "NO! it is too early to make a movie about 9/11" rant.

First of all, I just heard of two 9/11 movies coming out this year. first the Oliver Stone directed World Trade Center, and second there is a movie directed by Paul Greengrass of Bourne Supremecy fame directing a movie based on what the people on Flight 93 did.


Ok, first of all. I have to say that I am disgusted that two renown directors are doing these movies and that this is a sheer case of profit for these studios and the filmmakers. They don't care about the 3,000 people that died, or the 40 people that died on Flight 93. They just care about a profit to be made off of these movies.They are provoking the fears of people after 9/11 into getting them to get off their asses and see one of these two flicks. I am revolsed at the fact that Hollywood would sneak to such a low level to make money.



Yea, Stones already stated that a huge portion of the money made from his 9/11 film will go to families of 9/11.

If you lived in Kansas in the 60s you would of been one of those people that bitched and moaned about Truman Capote being all over the place just weeks after the brutal murders occured. Capote covered it tastefully, as did Brooks when he turned it into a magnificent film. Yes, a murdered family is far from thousands but you catch my drift.

I very much doubt that either one of these movies are going to get anyone to see them for what you call, "provoking the fears of people after 9/11 into getting them to get off their asses and see one of these two flicks." If people are scared of reopening wounds by viewing these films, guess what smart guy, they're not going to go see the movie.

If this movie were being done by Spielberg, you'd be all over it, and you'd probably rate it a 10. You don't like Stone, so don't see it. I can't believe the magnificent Paul Greengrass would be directing a movie like this. He needs to be careful otherwise he's gonna wash his famed career down the drain. :rolleyes:

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by HeavyFknMetal
Yea, Stones already stated that a huge portion of the money made from his 9/11 film will go to families of 9/11.

If you lived in Kansas in the 60s you would of been one of those people that bitched and moaned about Truman Capote being all over the place just weeks after the brutal murders occured. Capote covered it tastefully, as did Brooks when he turned it into a magnificent film. Yes, a murdered family is far from thousands but you catch my drift.

I very much doubt that either one of these movies are going to get anyone to see them for what you call, "provoking the fears of people after 9/11 into getting them to get off their asses and see one of these two flicks." If people are scared of reopening wounds by viewing these films, guess what smart guy, they're not going to go see the movie.

If this movie were being done by Spielberg, you'd be all over it, and you'd probably rate it a 10. You don't like Stone, so don't see it. I can't believe the magnificent Paul Greengrass would be directing a movie like this. He needs to be careful otherwise he's gonna wash his famed career down the drain. :rolleyes:


What the...?

I didn't say that I didn't like Stone

hell, some of his movies are my favorites. Movies I don't like of his is the ones where he actually WARPS history and does what he wants with what happend. I saw Nixon, and I saw JFK. They aren't alll that great films as people are saying. I am sorry but I smell bullshit when I watch a political movie because the filmmaker can or always will alter the movie to his wishes because he is the fucking director.

Also, everybody I talked to about hte films said it was way too fucking early to make one. They are not planning on seeing them.

Also, Why the hell do you consider me a Spieberg fan? huh? I like most of his movies, but I am not that big of a fan of him because his style can get boring .

[HeavyFknMetal]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
Also, everybody I talked to about hte films said it was way too fucking early to make one. They are not planning on seeing them.

Also, Why the hell do you consider me a Spieberg fan? huh? I like most of his movies, but I am not that big of a fan of him because his style can get boring .

This is probably the third thread I've read on this forum about 9/11 movies coming out and the majority of the people on the boards have no problem with it. Just because the people you talk to say its too early, that doesn't mean you're in the majority.

My comment on Spielberg wasnt intended to be negative, I apologize for the way it came out but my intention was in saying that you'd be singing a much different tune if he were the one behind the project. I think thats a pretty safe assumption on my part. This movie isnt about politics but about survival. I can't speak about the other movie as I know nothing about it but I do believe its way to early to judge Stone on his movie, for we dont even have a trailer to see how tastefully or untastefully it might be. I'm not the biggest fan of Stone but I still believe you should wait and give the man a chance.

[the_sneaker]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
Besides, on all this Oliver Stone shit. He skews all of his flicks so he can tell what happend his way.

No shit. His main theory in the film for why JFK was assasinated was because he was going to pull the troops out of Vietnam, when in fact, he wasn't. They show that clip of him saying "I will not have my soldiers stay there" or something to that extent...but they end it at that. However, he keeps talking and says that he has no plans of pulling the soldiers out at all. It's the Michael Moore effect.