so what exactly happened between QT and Avary ?

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http://duderino13.tripod.com/qa5.jpg


As many theories as the Pulp of Fiction and the Dogs of the Reservoir have generated, there's been enough and more talked about the fall-out between Quentin Tarantino and Roger Avary.

Some say that QT took all the credit for both the movies, but that's just utter rubbish.

Some say that QT didn't give the finalised amount to Avary, and that again seems to be rubbish as Avary apparently made some other movie(killing zoe...i think) with the money he got from PF.

Some others say that QT "stole" a lot of ideas/dialogues from Avary during the making of PF and RD. Now, is that true? I don't know. But the fact that QT used a line from Avary's 'Rules of Attraction' ("I need you like I need an asshole on my elbow") in KB2 kind of makes me incline towards that point.

Some say there is no "fall-out" at all.

So, I know it's hard to exactly know what happened unless you're either of their guardian angels. But any of you have any logical theories in your head?





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I wasn't sure if this had been discussed before. I searched and found none.
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[Digifruitella]

QT stole ideas/dialogue from Avary is what the fallout is, as far as I know.

[Cyd V]

The fallout began when Avary was not included on the Golden Globe noms. When Quent went up to receive the award Avary's wife called him a fucker or something as he walked by their table.

And I think it's obvious Quent stole lots from Avary as the quality of his flicks have dropped off significantly since they went their seperate ways.

[Asokan]

Isn't that line - "I need you like I need an asshole on my elbow" - actually from a much older movie? I can't remember which one, but I don't think it originated from Avery's RULES.

I don't know exactly why they "broke up", even though I have read Peter Biskind's account of 90's Independent Cinema "Down and Dirty Pictures", where he 'reports' that Quentin turned into a megalomaniac and pissed off his old friends with his antics, one of them being Roger.

As for the quality of QT's films after the break-up: as good as JACKIE BROWN and the KILL BILL films were, they weren't the lightning-in-a-bottle-kind-of-monsters RD and PF were. But Avary has yet to make a movie I liked watching. :rolleyes:

[The Postmaster General]

Anyone who has collaborated with others know that ideas are like free reign, and you can't really steal ideas. I'm sure that Avary remembers him having come up with some single line of dialogue, or even a whole scene, and that QT remembers it as being him who did it. I also have the speculation that neither of them were 100% sober during the entire conception of Pulp Fiction, so that would only add weight to this idea.

I've never directly heard any quotes from Avary, or anything to that effect, only hear-say. You go to his official site (http://www.avary.com/) - nothing mentioned, and not much of a great web design, making me question if it's even official. Fuck that shit.

I don't see how Avary didn't get equal props for Pulp Fiction. He stood right next to Quentin while receiving the Oscar. The Golden Globe thing - A lot of time, especially at film festivals, mistakes are made, and people get missed. This is a lot more common than you'd normally think. Nothing is personal - well, except for calling someone a fucker. Did Quentin acknowledge Avary? I don't know the speech. Avary did get equal credit in every other awards show, as far as I can tell.

Or I don't know, maybe they hate each others guts. I do know that Quentin also directed the movies, and that deserves additional credit overall.


Originally posted by Cyd V
And I think it's obvious Quent stole lots from Avary as the quality of his flicks have dropped off significantly since they went their seperate ways.

That would also be true for Avary.

And it isn't like Quentin or Avary would be the only writers who's later projects weren't as successful.

[Cyd V]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove


I've never directly heard any quotes from Avary, or anything to that effect, only hear-say. You go to his official site (http://www.avary.com/) - nothing mentioned, and not much of a great web design, making me question if it's even official. Fuck that shit.


Avary's site has been down for about a year now. On the site he said that lots of what ended up in Pulp was stuff that he wrote in a draft of True Romance he wrote, which was: Drexl getting his head blown off, which became Marvin's head, the bullets missing, (the best 2 parts of the flick in my opinion) and the Gold watch story was from a script he wrote, which is why he felt he should have been credited as co-writter, instead of just having a 'story by' credit.

[riotstarter]

Avary has said that he cant' be friends with Quentin anymore because anything he says to him, he might steal. Apparently that Top Gun monologue Quentin gave in Sleep With Me, was stolen directly from Avary. Apparently they were just hanging out drinking one night when Avary mentioned this hillarious theory, and Quentin took it and used it as his own in Sleep with Me. I'm not surprised, he steals everything else.

[sAtAn666]

According to Down and Dirty Pictures, Avery wrote Gold Watch for PF originally, and QT added bits to it, but Avery was just left with a "story by" credit. if you notice at the end of Pulp Fiction, it says, "Written & Directed By Quentin Tarantino" and thats it. Because QT wanted the film to say that right at the end, he didnt credit Avery.

I like QT's films, but he's obviously a little egotistical. the opening credits ends with "Produced by", so the "Written and Directed by" doesnt appear till the start of the end credits. Not a bad idea, and a good way to get the director's name fresh in people's minds right after the film is ended, but it's a shame that not many remember that Avery wrote some of the film because of this.

[The Postmaster General]

Oh yeah - I remember that know about him saying he's afraid QT will steal everything he says. Those details - the gold watch, hand of god stopping the bullets, Drexel getting his head blown off --- I'd never heard that stuff before; it's interesting.

That's really two bad, because as Asokan brought up, those guys seem to benefit from one another. It's too bad, really.

[< a c e >]

Hmmm... interesting posts. I'll get to them one by one.


The fallout began when Avary was not included on the Golden Globe noms. When Quent went up to receive the award Avary's wife called him a fucker or something as he walked by their table.

WHOA! That's sad and funny. Not buying it though.



And I think it's obvious Quent stole lots from Avary as the quality of his flicks have dropped off significantly since they went their seperate ways.


I disagree. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the KILLBILLs, but i'm certain that he managed to keep his fans happy with'em.

As for the quality of QT's films after the break-up: as good as JACKIE BROWN and the KILL BILL films were, they weren't the lightning-in-a-bottle-kind-of-monsters RD and PF were.

Again, I disagree. More often than not, when a unique and rebel sorta film-maker enters the industry, his mid-career movies are always criticised for not being as effective as the initial ones. This is simply because his style and vision becomes...well, not predictable exactly but...measurable. Take the case of Manoj Night Shyamalan. The guy entered with a freakin' BANG!...Sixth Sense was everywhere...but its successors were comparitively weaker...not contentwise, but impactwise. But what we forget is that IF an unbreakable,signs or KILL BILL was the respective maker's first film...It would have still been the kick-ass show that 6thSense or PF was. Point Being--> If Kiil Bill was released first, it would've taken your ass and mind for a helluva ride. But since you knew what QT was capable of...you probably anticipated and measured what a kill bill would be.

Avary has said that he cant' be friends with Quentin anymore because anything he says to him, he might steal. Apparently that Top Gun monologue Quentin gave in Sleep With Me, was stolen directly from Avary. Apparently they were just hanging out drinking one night when Avary mentioned this hillarious theory, and Quentin took it and used it as his own in Sleep with Me. I'm not surprised, he steals everything else.

WHOA! "Apparently" or not...I'm gonna keep that in my mind. Interesting. Thank you riotstarter.

According to Down and Dirty Pictures, Avery wrote Gold Watch for PF originally, and QT added bits to it, but Avery was just left with a "story by" credit. if you notice at the end of Pulp Fiction, it says, "Written & Directed By Quentin Tarantino" and thats it. Because QT wanted the film to say that right at the end, he didnt credit Avery.

WHAT!!!???? NOOOO!!! Not the gold watch! anything but the watch!
I LOVED every single bit of that portion. I always thought about it as a QT thingy. FUCK man! Personally, QT's image is taking a beating in my head.

But there's still a li'l love left for that maniac!

Anyone who has collaborated with others know that ideas are like free reign, and you can't really steal ideas. I'm sure that Avary remembers him having come up with some single line of dialogue, or even a whole scene, and that QT remembers it as being him who did it. I also have the speculation that neither of them were 100% sober during the entire conception of Pulp Fiction, so that would only add weight to this idea.

LOL! So i guess the ideas actually belonged to a person named "coke".

I agree with you. Avary definitely got his bit for PF.



Thanx bubba! This post certaily takes one nail out of my QT coffin.

That's really two bad, because as Asokan brought up, those guys seem to benefit from one another. It's too bad, really.

Truer than the truth.