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-   -   3 Dead people you'd want to have dinner with (http://www.joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146238)

Bengt Ekerot 07-13-2012 04:40 AM

3 Dead people you'd want to have dinner with
 
Could be from any time period or place. Tell us why.

For me: Diogenes of Sinope, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Emil Cioran

Diogenes because there is so little information about him that has survived but the comparatively little there is shows me he was one of the most intriguing characters of the ancient world. Would love to know what he wrote that was lost to history. He also would probably have a lot of witty and dark, humorous insights on the last two thousand years.

Dostoyevsky because he is someone I could possibly learn something about writing from, but also because I think he’s one of the few religious people who fundamentally “got” atheists and other non-religious types.

Cioran because, like Diogenes, he was the anti-philosophical philosopher par excellence who won’t put you to sleep. Also would love to see the interaction between him and Fyodor.

Erroneous 07-13-2012 09:50 PM

That is one hell of a list.

OK I am game

Einstein, so I can show my my iphone with calculator.

Hitler, just so I can ask why and then hand him over to Israel.

Thomas Jefferson, so I can show him what has become of the USA and I can find out once in for all what the "makers" intended.



Bonus: Because Hitler would not to dinner, Miss Monroe

Bengt Ekerot 07-14-2012 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erroneous (Post 3575361)
That is one hell of a list.

OK I am game

Einstein, so I can show my my iphone with calculator.

Hitler, just so I can ask why and then hand him over to Israel.

Thomas Jefferson, so I can show him what has become of the USA and I can find out once in for all what the "makers" intended.



Bonus: Because Hitler would not to dinner, Miss Monroe

"How did you guys not blow yourselves up yet. Sorry about the nukes." Einstein would then disappear in a puff of ghostly smoke filled shame.

http://www.hark.com/clips/lghnrqncck...r-ill-kill-you link to audio of chappelle on the founders

On Hitler and Israel:

"Nationalism continues to appeal to the depleted because other prospects appear bleaker. The culture of the ancestors was destroyed; therefore, by pragmatic standard, it failed; the only ancestors who survived were those who accommodated themselves to the invader's system, and they survived on the outskirts of garbage dumps. The varied utopias of poets and dreamers and the numerous "mythologies of the proletariat" have also failed; they have not proven themselves in practice; they have been nothing but hot air, pipe dreams, pies in the sky; the actual proletariat has been as racist as the bosses and the police.

The packer and the security guard have lost contact with the ancient culture; pipe dreams and utopias don't interest them, are in fact dismissed with the practical businessman's contempt toward poets, drifters and dreamers. Nationalism offers them something concrete, something that's been tried and tested and is known to work. There's no earthly reason for the descendants of the persecuted to remain persecuted when nationalism offers them the prospect of becoming persecutors. Near and distant relatives of victims can become a racist nation-state; they can themselves herd other people into concentration camps, push other people around at will, perpetrate genocidal war against them, procure preliminary capital by expropriating them. And if "racial relatives" of Hitler's victims can do it, so can the near and distant relatives of the victims of a Washington, Jackson, Reagan or Begin." http://libcom.org/library/continuing...-fredy-perlman

Are we enemies now Erroneous? ha. Not looking to get into a big debate, just something to think about.

Erroneous 07-14-2012 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3575409)
"Are we enemies now Erroneous? ha. Not looking to get into a big debate, just something to think about.

What THE HELL are you talking about? What is your deal, dude?

QUENTIN 07-14-2012 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3575409)
"How did you guys not blow yourselves up yet. Sorry about the nukes." Einstein would then disappear in a puff of ghostly smoke filled shame.

http://www.hark.com/clips/lghnrqncck...r-ill-kill-you link to audio of chappelle on the founders

On Hitler and Israel:

"Nationalism continues to appeal to the depleted because other prospects appear bleaker. The culture of the ancestors was destroyed; therefore, by pragmatic standard, it failed; the only ancestors who survived were those who accommodated themselves to the invader's system, and they survived on the outskirts of garbage dumps. The varied utopias of poets and dreamers and the numerous "mythologies of the proletariat" have also failed; they have not proven themselves in practice; they have been nothing but hot air, pipe dreams, pies in the sky; the actual proletariat has been as racist as the bosses and the police.

The packer and the security guard have lost contact with the ancient culture; pipe dreams and utopias don't interest them, are in fact dismissed with the practical businessman's contempt toward poets, drifters and dreamers. Nationalism offers them something concrete, something that's been tried and tested and is known to work. There's no earthly reason for the descendants of the persecuted to remain persecuted when nationalism offers them the prospect of becoming persecutors. Near and distant relatives of victims can become a racist nation-state; they can themselves herd other people into concentration camps, push other people around at will, perpetrate genocidal war against them, procure preliminary capital by expropriating them. And if "racial relatives" of Hitler's victims can do it, so can the near and distant relatives of the victims of a Washington, Jackson, Reagan or Begin." http://libcom.org/library/continuing...-fredy-perlman

Are we enemies now Erroneous? ha. Not looking to get into a big debate, just something to think about.

Color me impressed. Perlman's a great writer, thinker, and human being. I don't agree with his primitivist tendencies, but Continuing Appeal and Against HIStory are excellent and worthwhile reads. Welcome to the boards.

As for the three dead people, I'd much rather have dinner with the living.

Bengt Ekerot 07-14-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erroneous (Post 3575488)
What THE HELL are you talking about? What is your deal, dude?

i'll take that as a yes. ha.

Bengt Ekerot 07-14-2012 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QUENTIN (Post 3575498)
Color me impressed. Perlman's a great writer, thinker, and human being. I don't agree with his primitivist tendencies, but Continuing Appeal and Against HIStory are excellent and worthwhile reads. Welcome to the boards.

As for the three dead people, I'd much rather have dinner with the living.

I've read Against HIStory a few times. I actually cited it in a graduate school paper about six years ago. I don't think my professor was too pleased. I dropped out a few weeks later. The good old days...when I wasn't completely crushed and jaded yet. ha.

I guess it depends on how you define primitivism in relation to perlman. I always saw him more as an eco-anarchist a la Thoreau instead of the more extreme style of anarcho-primitivism a la John Zerzan. I used to be a disciple of Zerzan's. Long story.

Well you're not alone in not wanting to list dead dinner guests as you can see I've only gotten a reply from Erroneous and that didn't work out so well. ha.

Erroneous 07-14-2012 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3575589)
i'll take that as a yes. ha.

That was not a yes. I asked a question and you did not answer it. It is almost like you want to start trouble. Sorry, I really don't care either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3575595)
Well you're not alone in not wanting to list dead dinner guests as you can see I've only gotten a reply from Erroneous and that didn't work out so well. ha.

Work out well what? I wrote who I wanted to have dinner with and you quoted a couple things. ha

Bengt Ekerot 07-14-2012 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erroneous (Post 3575620)
That was not a yes. I asked a question and you did not answer it. It is almost like you want to start trouble. Sorry, I really don't care either way.



Work out well what? I wrote who I wanted to have dinner with and you quoted a couple things. ha

Don't be thick in front of me, Al.

jaw2929 07-14-2012 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erroneous (Post 3575620)
It is almost like you want to start trouble.

YOU should talk.... :rolleyes:

Bengt Ekerot 07-15-2012 10:02 PM

Here's three more since the rest of you are too scared to dine with the dead.

Marquis de Sade, Tecumseh, Randy Rhoads

The Marquis must have some good prison/mental asylum stories to tell. Plus he's one of the most diversely interpreted guys in history, ranging from outright hatred to trailblazing hero. Gotta be something worth discovering underneath the mystery.

Tecumseh just so he could give a swift kick in the ass to the indigenous, reinvigorate the ghost dance and let Wovoka's prophecy of wiping out the colonial masters and collaborators finally happen.

Randy Rhoads because, come on, that guy was great but fell victim to the shittyness of reality at 25. There has to be more metal greatness lying around in the ghostly realm from him.

magjournal 07-15-2012 10:17 PM

Alfred Hitchcock
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Socrates

Erroneous 07-15-2012 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaw2929 (Post 3575639)
YOU should talk.... :rolleyes:

So should you. It is so nice to know you took the time to write that and did not even offer 3 dead people you would like to have dinner with. Perhaps since I posted a real post in this thread and you did not, you are trolling, sir.

I would like to add three more

Nicolaus Copernicus He was the first to publish a sun centered universe among other things. I would like to talk to him what it was like to go against the popular opinion. wink wink


Sam Kinison My favorite comedian. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSwG9Tojg9I


William Shakespeare. I am sure he would laugh at a lot of the stuff said about him.

Bengt Ekerot 07-16-2012 01:45 AM

"Brian: (in heaven) Look at me, hanging out with Ernest Hemmingway, Vincent Van Gogh and Kurt Cobain. But it does seem like we all ended up here earlier then we should have.
Hemmingway: Well, I finally collapsed under the weight of my own genius, and shot myself.
Van Gogh: I couldn't reconcile my passion with the way people around me were living, so I shot myself.
Cobain: I couldn't stand the idea of my music becoming some bland corporate tool, so I shot myself.
Brian: Yeah, I... got into the garbage and ate some chocolate."

Gordon 07-16-2012 02:56 AM

How abstractly do you mean this? On one hand, abstractly, I'd pick e.g. Hegel so I could ask him about all of the various reappropriations of his work by the Marxists, Lacanians, various de-metaphysicalization people, &c. but I think in the concrete he'd be a horrible person to talk to. If you mean like literally who would you bring back from the dead it would probably be people who are gone that I miss.

Bengt Ekerot 07-16-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon (Post 3576168)
How abstractly do you mean this? On one hand, abstractly, I'd pick e.g. Hegel so I could ask him about all of the various reappropriations of his work by the Marxists, Lacanians, various de-metaphysicalization people, &c. but I think in the concrete he'd be a horrible person to talk to. If you mean like literally who would you bring back from the dead it would probably be people who are gone that I miss.

Hegel for dinner conversation would be like Kant at an orgy. Not a good fit. The guy tried to create transcendental imperatives for not spanking the monkey. What a loser. ha.

Bengt Ekerot 07-16-2012 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erroneous (Post 3576134)
Nicolaus Copernicus He was the first to publish a sun centered universe among other things. I would like to talk to him what it was like to go against the popular opinion. wink wink


Sam Kinison My favorite comedian. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSwG9Tojg9I


William Shakespeare. I am sure he would laugh at a lot of the stuff said about him.

Copernicus would bore me. Kinison would annoy me with his constant yelling. I wonder if Shakespeare would actually have anything to contribute given how little is known about what he actually thought. Maybe he was just one of these guys that hid behind his characters and art and was pretty empty himself. Part of me can respect that style of empty artyness, but another part of me loathes it as cowardly and callous indifference and privilege.

Bengt Ekerot 07-16-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magjournal (Post 3576101)
Alfred Hitchcock
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Socrates

Nietzsche pretty much destroyed Socrates. Plus, he was a timid Greek patriot who submitted to what he thought was unjust punishment. Nothing to see here folks, keep it moving.

FDR: Right place, right time, typical political douche.

Can't comment on Hitchcock as I know nothing of him as a person but psycho was a decent flick.

Erroneous 07-16-2012 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3576264)
Hegel for dinner conversation would be like Kant at an orgy. Not a good fit. The guy tried to create transcendental imperatives for not spanking the monkey. What a loser. ha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3576271)
Copernicus would bore me. Kinison would annoy me with his constant yelling. I wonder if Shakespeare would actually have anything to contribute given how little is known about what he actually thought. Maybe he was just one of these guys that hid behind his characters and art and was pretty empty himself. Part of me can respect that style of empty artyness, but another part of me loathes it as cowardly and callous indifference and privilege.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3576277)
Nietzsche pretty much destroyed Socrates. Plus, he was a timid Greek patriot who submitted to what he thought was unjust punishment. Nothing to see here folks, keep it moving.

FDR: Right place, right time, typical political douche.

Can't comment on Hitchcock as I know nothing of him as a person but psycho was a decent flick.

Our dinners. Not your's. You had your choices. We made ours. To criticize our choices is just arrogant and wrong. Or this your deal where you just try to show off how smart you are?

oh-dae-su 07-16-2012 03:14 PM

Alfred Hitchcock
Carl Jung
Donald Pleasence

Bengt Ekerot 07-16-2012 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erroneous (Post 3576339)
Our dinners. Not your's. You had your choices. We made ours. To criticize our choices is just arrogant and wrong. Or this your deal where you just try to show off how smart you are?

I'm bored. It helps to kill the time?

"Smart" is a meaningless word to me so I don't proclaim to be it. Words like "wrong" are equally meaningless. But i understand your sentiment. People in general don't want their sacred cows cooked in front of their eyes. I'm merely providing some commentary for my personal amusement. Maybe some readers out there will be inspired to look into some people i've mentioned, an ancillary benefit but hardly my motivation.

Bengt Ekerot 07-16-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh-dae-su (Post 3576373)
Alfred Hitchcock
Carl Jung
Donald Pleasence

This Hitchcock fellow must be a great dude. 2 out of 4 people that gave a complete list mentioned him. I guess it's because you are fans of his movies.

I know nothing of Donald Pleasance as a person or actor other than his work in Halloween which i thought was well done. Care to enlighten me on what makes him resurrection worthy?

Jung? Mystical mumbo jumbo.

Bengt Ekerot 07-16-2012 04:53 PM

Here Erroneous. I'll give a brief grilling to all the people i've mentioned therefore it won't seem like i just think i know the perfect people to pick and everyone else is a moron.

Diogenes: Precursor of Stoic crap.

Dostoyevsky: Pro Tzarist, religious quack, most of whose books are too damned long with scattered insight.

Cioran: Self-obsessed typical writer who tended to say the same thing over and over again with small variations with no discernible effort to reach out to those outside his small reading audience.

Marquis de Sade: Tendency to be a long winded writer, asshole in his personal life.

Tecumseh: Mass murderer.

Randy Rhoads: Just another hedonistic rocker living it up while the world burns.

Satisfied?

Beard_of_Meat 07-16-2012 05:44 PM

Jack Kerouac
Joseph Campbell
Wallace Fowlie

Gordon 07-16-2012 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3576264)
Hegel for dinner conversation would be like Kant at an orgy. Not a good fit. The guy tried to create transcendental imperatives for not spanking the monkey. What a loser. ha.

Okay, so now that you've taken your pleonastic detour to rearticulate the point my question was premised on, how about answering the question itself?

Bengt Ekerot 07-16-2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon (Post 3576441)
Okay, so now that you've taken your pleonastic detour to rearticulate the point my question was premised on, how about answering the question itself?

ha. i had to look up pleonastic in the dictionary. see erroneous, i'm actually pretty dumb compared to this guy. probably comes from not reading hegel, just about him to know enough to avoid him.

Bengt Ekerot 07-16-2012 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beard_of_Meat (Post 3576435)
Jack Kerouac
Joseph Campbell
Wallace Fowlie

Hmm. Two professorial types and a drug addict, alcoholic, nomadic buddhist slut. What type of shenanigans will those three get into? ha.

I'd rather have post-poet Rimbaud instead of Fowlie. Be interesting to see what disenchanted Arthur would have to say about the continuing pursuit of literature in the past century.

Bengt Ekerot 07-17-2012 01:20 AM

Interesting that no one has mentioned a female yet and i'm the only one to have mentioned a non white person. Time to correct the overabundance of cock in this thread.

Emma Goldman
Meena Kamal
Trugernanner

MightyCelestial 07-17-2012 01:20 AM

I don't think that there are any dead people I'd want to have dinner with.
The stank of decayed flesh would make lose my appetite.

Darth Kenshin 07-17-2012 02:22 AM

I'll try to answer these without references to religious figures or philosophical people to avoid incurring the wrath of some pseudo-intellectuals on this forum.

John Wooden - would love to pick his brain about basketball. Also, he's my inspiration as a teacher.

Richard Pryor - he's hilarious. Dinner with him would be a riot.

Tupac Shakur - overrated rapper, but underrated thinker and voice for the African American community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3576602)
Interesting that no one has mentioned a female yet

haha, that is interesting. None made my list, either. Definitely didn't notice that trend. If we extend to Top 5, Margaret Bancroft might make my list. Top 20, maybe Hypatia, Ada Lovelace, and/or Beatrice Webb would make it.

I guess at the end of the day, I took this question very literally. Who I'd want to actually talk with, learn from, and hopefully have a good time with. I respect a lot of female historical figures, but I don't think dining with Elizabeth Stanton or Emma Goldman would be a good time.

blankpage 07-17-2012 02:41 AM

Burgers with Kubrick.
Drinks with Hemingway.
After dinner jam session with McCartney.

Bengt Ekerot 07-17-2012 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin (Post 3576606)
I'll try to answer these without references to religious figures or philosophical people to avoid incurring the wrath of some pseudo-intellectuals on this forum.

John Wooden - would love to pick his brain about basketball. Also, he's my inspiration as a teacher.

Richard Pryor - he's hilarious. Dinner with him would be a riot.

Tupac Shakur - overrated rapper, but underrated thinker and voice for the African American community.



haha, that is interesting. None made my list, either. Definitely didn't notice that trend. If we extend to Top 5, Margaret Bancroft might make my list. Top 20, maybe Hypatia, Ada Lovelace, and/or Beatrice Webb would make it.

I guess at the end of the day, I took this question very literally. Who I'd want to actually talk with, learn from, and hopefully have a good time with. I respect a lot of female historical figures, but I don't think dining with Elizabeth Stanton or Emma Goldman would be a good time.

pseudo is the best type of intellectual. full blooded intellectuals are often too immersed in their obsessions. not all the time though. i respect the hell out of a guy like noam chomsky for example, even though i don't always agree with him.

that's a pretty interesting list you made. adds some color to the overflow of whiteness. never found pryor that funny, but i respect his boldness. don't know too much about tupac but i've heard he was a pretty well read guy with some radical thoughts and i don't doubt it. i'm more familiar with his step-aunt assata shakur who was pretty out there herself.

Emma Goldman was in to free love though. Does that count as a possible "good time" in your book? ha.

Bengt Ekerot 07-17-2012 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankpage (Post 3576609)
Burgers with Kubrick.
Drinks with Hemingway.
After dinner jam session with McCartney.

McCartney is still alive. Unless you mean some other McCartney, not Paul. Or maybe you meant lennon.

blankpage 07-17-2012 02:26 PM

No, I meant Paul. He died in 1966.

Bengt Ekerot 07-17-2012 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankpage (Post 3576830)
No, I meant Paul. He died in 1966.

ha. oh, o.k. i think i heard of that "urban legend" once before but it slipped my mind as i had to look up what the hell you were talking about. not much of a beatles fan.

Badbird 07-17-2012 07:42 PM

Brandon Lee - Just because

Elizabeth Hartman - Great, underrated actress, maybe best known for The Secret of Nimh and A Patch of Blue

Orson Welles - And I would talk to him about nothing but The Transformers movie.

bigred760 07-17-2012 08:40 PM

Akira Kurosawa
Alfred Hitchcock
Stanley Kubrick

blankpage 07-18-2012 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3576848)
ha. oh, o.k. i think i heard of that "urban legend" once before but it slipped my mind as i had to look up what the hell you were talking about. not much of a beatles fan.

Yeah, was just having a little fun there.

As for a serious third person...

Aldous Huxley. Dinner, discussion, and a little LSD.

Bengt Ekerot 07-18-2012 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankpage (Post 3577111)
Yeah, was just having a little fun there.

As for a serious third person...

Aldous Huxley. Dinner, discussion, and a little LSD.

Huxley was a man ahead of his time. Brave New World is one of the most important novels ever written in my opinion.

blankpage 07-18-2012 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengt Ekerot (Post 3577117)
Huxley was a man ahead of his time. Brave New World is one of the most important novels ever written in my opinion.

Agreed on both counts.


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