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Old 02-12-2010, 11:31 AM
Originally Posted by Brooke Thompson View Post
As for Doomsday's appearance in December. If you had read the issue he serves as mearly a small plot point. Nightwing, Flamebird, and MonEl (I can't remember which) fight Doomsday as part of a distraction by the big bad. So he does exactly what we've proved time and time again: he punches some shit then gets killed.

I already addressed this issue. I said it doesn't matter what the comic did. The script can be a completely different animal than the comic. So this argument is subjective.

You're detailed plans for your fantasy Superman/JLA trilogy is a novel idea and all but you seem to not understand how the movie industry works. There was a small window of time where big stories were all made at once, KILL BILL, THE MATRIX RELOADED/REVOLUTIONS, and THE LORD OF THE RINGS TRILOGY. But, they don't make movies like that anymore. They don't make them all at once because there is a lot of money involved and the risk factor is too high. The last Superman movie bombed so Warner is very scared on how to handle the property their not gonna shoot themselves in the foot and plan for two or three movies when they don't even know if the first one will work.
I have read various film and writing books and have been involved in two independent films. I have had many deep discussions about the film industry for many years now.

However, if you were to re-read my post, I never said that they should film the trilogy back to back like the Lord of the Rings. I said they should immediately start filming the next movie after the first one was successful.

Big difference.

And personally I think my main beef with Doomsday in this senario is your poor presentation of him. If I'm going to see a Superman movie I don't want to see Superman disappear in the first hour and not come back until the second film. You really don't understand this issue with "stakes being raised" it's a common filmmaking mode of operation. But, you're not a filmmaker so I'm not expecting you to understand. No one will believe that Superman is dead. Nobody. Maybe for a good ten mins and then they'll say "But the movie's called SUPERMAN, he'll be back in no time." So when he comes back its not that the auidenece is so happy he's alive, they'll just be relieved that he's back on screen. So he can what? Have a five min fight with Doomsday?
I never said that Superman should disappear in the first hour. He would die at the end of the first movie.

There seems to be no talking to you about Doomsday cause you're just not getting it, but I want to talk about some of the things you said back to me.
Your point is invalid that a Doomsday movie won't work because the comic... is not going to be photo copy of the script. They have screen writers who will add those necessary elements that the story needs to make it emotional and more character driven.

The fact that you can't recognize the potential for these things to appear within the story is lack of vision or imagination on your part. Either that or it is an unwillingness to let yourself enjoy the story because you already dislike it.

About Watchmen. My statement was not contradicting itself. Fans of the comic and fans of the movie are two different groups. Honestly the people who enjoy the shit out of the movie are the ones that picked up the Graphic Novel right after seeing the trailer or got it for christmas and like you took three times to read it cause it was too cerebral. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but when the Watchmen movie was turned into a compete mockery of that story it is. The Watchmen movies was like the retarded cliff notes cousin of the graphic novel. And the numbers don't lie, nobody cared enough to see it. That's what I mean by catering to the people that saw the Watchmen movie.
So there is no room for deviation? I thought they did a pretty darn good job at adapting the graphic novel. However, the problem with Watchmen's box office numbers didn't lie within the fact that it didn't live up to the potential of the graphic novel. It didn't do well because the average movie goer craves cheese fries, explosions, bad CGI, mindless action sequences, and hot chicks or tight bodies. They don't want to think too much. I mean, one of my friends (who is a huge collector of comics) didn't like Watchmen because he thought the movie was too slow and boring. Obviously the movie was too cerebral for him.

However, I still feel that the Graphic novel is not perfect. Not because I am not into cerebral story lines. But because they didn't utilize all the tools at their disposal to communicate the story as clearly. Granted, I suppose that is part of the whole point of the book was probably aiming for. But from where I stand. The number one rule of any good story is to communicate to your reader in the best possible way for him to understand your particular story.

You've been a member of CBR for a year. Wow.
Not impressed huh?
Well, I did help to create three reading orders over there.

Civil War Reading Order:

World War Hulk Reading Order:

Secret Invasion Reading Order:

Would you like some candy?
Yes. I would like some candy. Thank you.

I'm a young guy in my early 20s and I've been reading comics forever. So when you talk about comic book fans you're talking about my people. I know what we like and what we dislike even if I don't agree.
I am a guy in his late 30s. I have been reading comics since the 80s.
However, there is no way for you to know how all comic book fans feel about particular issues unless you were to round everyone one of them up and ask them all. Personally, I think you and the people you have ran into just don't like the Death of Superman. Hey, it's cool. I get it. You want to validate your own opinion. So naturally you attract those people who would agree with you.

However, The Top 100 DVD sales chart for 9/18/07-9/23/07 revealed that the animated Doomsday film was placed at #4, and was two spots ahead of the season six release of Smallville. Variety made a report three months after the DVD's release, on DTV movies becoming very popular, and revealed that the DVD sold 600,000 copies, 30% more than what the studio predicted. As of today, Superman Doomsday is the highest selling movie from the DC Direct to Video series selling more that 9 million units worldwide.

So, the Death of Superman Trade Paper Back is a top seller and the Animated Doomsday DVD is a top seller. Hmmm, sounds like it is a successful story concept if you ask me.

And I wasn't discounting the Amazon readers comments. If you read my post correctly you'd see that I was trying to put it in perspective for you.
Honestly, when it boils down to it: you were trying to dismiss their viewpoints and validate your own opinion over theirs. You were trying say that their viewpoints didn't hold any weight because most of the folks at Amazon are into things that are nostalgic. Which is simply not true.

Actually the fact the trade paper back is one of the top selling books helps to validate the positive feed back at Amazon.

So you can rally together all the comic fans you want who hate the Death of Superman. Still isn't going to change the numbers.

But, I don't need a lecture on who Doomsday is. Trust me I know his whole Kryptonian laced story.
Apparently, I had to. You didn't care to want to bring up any facts that the character has an origin, too. You simply cited him from the Death of Superman. As if that was the only universe he existed in.

But you gotta realize with comic books, and Superman in general there are SO MANY BETTER STORIES to be told. Idk I see a man who locked an entire kryptonain city in a bottle (Braniac) much more clever and exciting when he's bringing the fight to Supes then Doomsday.
A Honey, I Shrunk the Kids Super Man Movie?
Are you serious?

And Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Robin. Right now Robin is being played by Bruce Wayne's psychopath son with Talia Gul. He's a loose cannon that'd rather kill then capture. It's pretty awesome. To play him as a tired old 60s joke about green underwear drawing to his nutsack is a little immature and off base. Same with Superman and Batman's costumes. And even Toyman. It's a fucking comic. It's POP ART. There are no rules, no budget, this is a world of make believe not realism.
I am going to point out the problems within the DC Universe. Just as I would do the same thing for the problems that exist within the Marvel Universe or any other comic. We shouldn't have to apologize every time we pick up an issue. The world is becoming more and more educated because of the internet. It's about time people pulled their heads out of the sand and started creating superhero stories with a bit more reality and meat to them.

Nobody cares for Doomsday except you and a couple people that never read the comic and just remember him "killing superman" which he never really did. Superman's body just goes into hibernation. HE NEVER DIES.
Doesn't mean that they can't kill Superman in the movies, though.
And possibly bring in a clone or someone else to take over his face and identity.

I don't know man. There seems to be no talking with you because you're not understanding anyone's viewpoint. We get it. You wanna see a Doomsday movie, there are some of us here that are trying to explain why we wouldn't. Why it'd be stupid. Why it just wouldn't work the way you present it.
Well, you didn't think a Doomsday movie would do well at all.
But the animated DVD seems to be selling nicely. And I am sure the live action movie would do just as well (if handled correctly).

Listen if you want to talk about the possiblities for a single movie then maybe you're arguement can have some more weight to it. But right now, as you present it, it just won't work.
How does it not work?
Please tell me. Is their a fully written script that you have seen that I should be concerned about?

The point is to see the potential for not what it is but what it could be.
And I don't believe I should have to write the script myself in order to prove that particular point to you.

Last edited by James Bond; 02-12-2010 at 11:38 AM..
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