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Old 06-10-2010, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender View Post

When I said "Identity Crisis" made things worse for DC comics, what I meant was that Meltzer's efforts to cast a shadow over the stories of the Silver Age and invite us to examine them with a more mature eye from the perspective of the modern age was successful, but that that wasn't really a good thing. Rather than create something new and engaging, they just detracted from something old and endearing. If "Identity Crisis" had been a better story, I might not have minded it undermining the Silver Age, but since it wasn't, then that just makes it all the worse.
Okay, I get what you're saying, thanks for the clarification. Looking back, I can see that a murder mystery might not be the best setting for a JLA story. However, I find I'm having difficulty understanding what you're trying to get at in the last paragraph. If the stated purpose of the story had been something different, would that have made the story better or worse?

I understand what it was that you were trying to say in your intial post in this topic, and one of the things I was trying to use IC to argue is that there have, in fact, been plenty of changes in a character's Status Quo. The core basics are very much the same, but over time, characters change. The characters from the Golden and Silver Age are unrecognizable to people who read comics today. I will grant that IC has a funny way of showing its "love" for the Silver age, and that it has a major plot problem (which I outlined, its supposed to be a defense of the need for heroes to protect their identity from outsiders, but the murderer is an insider. That's a major problem, it undermines the story)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender View Post

The problem with "World War Hulk" (okay, there was more than one, but the chief problem, as far as I'm concerned) is what I cited waaaaay back in my original point, that you can't have a really satisfying conclusion to that story because maintaining the status quo is too important.
I actually thought the problem with WWH was quite different. Reading Planet Hulk, I got the sense that this was a story that Greg Pak wanted to do, and that he cared about. Reading WWH, I got the sense that this was a story that Pak was told to do, and that he could have left alone entirely. The pacing, the tension, the drama of Planet Hulk were just totally not there in WWH, a story that I felt was lifeless from beginning to end. I don't think that lifelessness was the result of the need to get back to a status quo, I felt like that lifelessness was the result someone doing something they had no interest in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender View Post
Well, you can say that about "One More Day" too, but that's hardly a recommendation, now is it.

Alright, so "Identity Crisis" isn't quite as bad as "One More Day"...but it's down there.
There's a hole with no bottom! In the last few years of comics, there are few stories I can remember that have been more controversial (controversial = most readers didn't like the idea) than "one more day". For me, personally, I thought the spidey "compromise" of years ago (that he would be older, and married, in 616 and that he would be a teenager in the ultimate books) worked just fine. I saw no need to bring this about, as I think it limits the choices for people who want to read "their" Spiderman. I do think its a brave thing to do, but, in one sense, not original. "One more day" is not a step in a new direction, its a step backwards to a direction that's already been tried and true. In a sense, its the ultimate return to the status quo, the status quo of a younger Peter Parker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender View Post
Not just one, DC has been wrestling with "continuity problems" for over twenty years now, to the point that I suspect they're probably the only ones who care anymore. Although those big continuity stories have paved the way for much better ones in their wake, but that's probably more of a happy accident.
I think DC's issues with its own continuity are interesting, in that I like the fact that they've made the best out of a tangled situation: use their own continuity confusion to tell interesting stories pretending as if their continuity made sense. Its a better approach, IMHO, than Marvel's jedi mind-trick approach to continuity (I'm reading two x-men books, published at the same time, one in which Jean is dead and Beast is alive, and the other in which beast is dead and jean is alive. "These are not the dead mutants you are looking for" **Waves hand**)

For someone who talks about a book trampling over the silver age, you have a funny view towards history. I like the fact that, in the DCU, those stories count (kinda) and I like the fact that elements of those stories are still effecting the DCU to this day. It gives the universe a sense of tying in with the past. Other people don't care for that so much, and what they want is self contained stories with more jumping off points. I can see the case for both.
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