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Old 07-09-2012, 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Sorry man, but people care. I care. To quote Ed Norton in the 25th Hour "Slavery ended one hundred and thirty seven years ago. Move the fuck on!"
That was from American History X.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
Yeah, fuck you, too. Fuck *me*? Fuck *you*, Fuck you and this whole city and everyone in it. Fuck the panhandlers, grubbing for money, and smiling at me behind my back. Fuck the squeegee men dirtying up the clean windshield of my car - get a fucking job! Fuck the Sikhs and the Pakistanis bombing down the avenues in decrepit cabs, curry steaming out their pores stinking up my day. Terrorists in fucking training. SLOW THE FUCK DOWN! Fuck the Chelsea boys with their waxed chests and pumped-up biceps. Going down on each other in my parks and on my piers, jingling their dicks on my Channel 35. Fuck the Korean grocers with their pyramids of overpriced fruit and their tulips and roses wrapped in plastic. Ten years in the country, still no speaky English? Fuck the Russians in Brighton Beach. Mobster thugs sitting in cafés, sipping tea in little glasses, sugar cubes between their teeth. Wheelin' and dealin' and schemin'. Go back where you fucking came from! Fuck the black-hatted Chassidim, strolling up and down 47th street in their dirty gabardine with their dandruff. Selling South African apartheid diamonds! Fuck the Wall Street brokers. Self-styled masters of the universe. Michael Douglas, Gordon Gekko wannabe mother fuckers, figuring out new ways to rob hard working people blind. Send those Enron assholes to jail for FUCKING LIFE! You think Bush and Cheney didn't know about that shit? Give me a fucking break! Tyco! Worldcom! Fuck the Puerto Ricans. Twenty to a car, swelling up the welfare rolls, worst fuckin' parade in the city. And don't even get me started on the Dom-in-i-cans, 'cause they make the Puerto Ricans look good. Fuck the Bensonhurst Italians with their pomaded hair, their nylon warm-up suits, their St. Anthony medallions, swinging their Jason Giambi Louisville Slugger baseball bats, trying to audition for "The Sopranos." Fuck the Upper East Side wives with their Hermès scarves and their fifty-dollar Balducci artichokes. Overfed faces getting pulled and lifted and stretched, all taut and shiny. You're not fooling anybody, sweetheart! Fuck the uptown brothers. They never pass the ball, they don't want to play defense, they take five steps on every lay-up to the hoop. And then they want to turn around and blame everything on the white man. Slavery ended one hundred and thirty seven years ago. Move the fuck on! Fuck the corrupt cops with their anus-violating plungers and their 41 shots, standing behind a blue wall of silence. You betray our trust! Fuck the priests who put their hands down some innocent child's pants. Fuck the church that protects them, delivering us into evil. And while you're at it, fuck J.C.! He got off easy! A day on the cross, a weekend in hell, and all the hallelujahs of the legioned angels for eternity! Try seven years in fuckin' Otisville, J.! Fuck Osama Bin Laden, al-Qaeda, and backward-ass cave-dwelling fundamentalist assholes everywhere. On the names of innocent thousands murdered, I pray you spend the rest of eternity with your seventy-two whores roasting in a jet-fuel fire in hell. You towel-headed camel jockeys can kiss my royal Irish ass! Fuck Jacob Elinsky. Whining malcontent. Fuck Francis Xavier Slaughtery my best friend, judging me while he stares at my girlfriend's ass. Fuck Naturelle Riviera, I gave her my trust and she stabbed me in the back, sold me up the river, fucking bitch. Fuck my father with his endless grief, standing behind that bar sipping on club sodas, selling whisky to firemen, and cheering the Bronx Bombers. Fuck this whole city and everyone in it. From the row-houses of Astoria to the penthouses on Park Avenue, from the projects in the Bronx to the lofts in Soho. From the tenements in Alphabet City to the brownstones in Park Slope to the split-levels in Staten Island. Let an earthquake crumble it, let the fires rage, let it burn to fucking ash and then let the waters rise and submerge this whole rat-infested place.
You forgot the conclusion to that monologue, where Norton actually takes responsibility for his actions instead of turning his frustration into hatred towards others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erroneous View Post
LOL very rarely do those two have anything of substance to add
Nice. While we may not always agree, I was under the impression that we usually get along and had a mutual respect for each other. I can't recall being rude to you before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinigami View Post
The broad side of a barn. I was criticizing a 'what', so it doesn't have to be a 'who'. I'm not trying to be rude with your point or anything, but free speech doesn't have to be clean to remain free. Freedom as a concept isn't contingent on the cleanliness of clear-cut rules, it's contingent on the ambitions of those rules. This complexity is probably inherent. And that's to say nothing of our grave misunderstanding about our right to 'free speech', which doesn't actually give us the right to say whatever we want, wherever we want, in whatever way we please. I think some people are imagining slights against a law that might not exist.
I understand that there are caveats to our freedom of speech. I understand that freedom of speech does not equal freedom from criticism of your speech. In hindsight, I think frustration was too strong of a word to use. It's more of an observation. I didn't come here to defend or condemn what Chris Rock said. I'm simply guessing that some of the folks who are upset about what he said may have been on the defensive themselves at some point for things they've said. What may be a sensitive topic to them, may not be for others.

I kind of feel like you're going out of your way to give these hypothetical people the benefit of the doubt, while assuming that I want to pretend things are black-and-white when it comes to freedom of speech. I guess I shouldn't have brought it up, because my point revolved more around what offends people, whether it's racial slurs or talking shit about America, and how they react to that offense. I think everybody would do well to just chill out instead of getting angry.

I really don't disagree with anything you wrote in your response, although your second and third paragraphs are going into topics that I haven't touched upon in this thread. While you say you want to focus this point on a what instead of a who, your comment was a sarcastic response to one of my posts; and I'll admit that my brief post was lacking in nuance, but I'd appreciate it if you were a bit more upfront with any issues you have with what I've said. Chances are, I won't completely disagree with what you have to say, and my perspective may evolve thanks to the wisdom of those I respect. Instead you kind of implied that I am frustrated by complexities, and while I'm sure it was tongue-in-cheek, I think it's a bit unfair to assume that about me. Our dialogue could have been so much more enlightening, but instead I was left wondering if I had just been made the butt of a joke. It's okay though, it's all good. I just said that a lot of people get offended too easily, and I don't mean to be one of them.

My brevity can sometimes be my downfall, and I fear it may have muddied my point a bit in this thread. I'm not trying to just pull the "freedom of speech card" and side with Chris Rock, I simply think people may champion the freedom of speech thing when they are on the defensive, and forget about it when an outsider says something that truly offends them.
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