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Old 11-10-2012, 01:34 AM
Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
We have millions of things that are "barely making a dent" but yet altogether it adds up. "Its ok if it adds to our debt as long as its not 'x' amount." Well great you're just encouraging yet more and more number of small spending habits. Do you even have a clue how many social programs we have today as opposed to 10/20/30 years ago? Foreign aid also supports countries that other nations hate so then they wind up hating us. Friends of enemies are now your enemies. And yes it is a lot. People need to stop citing how "little things cost" when its still a matter of principle.
And we have a couple things that make a pretty HUGE dent. Its like making a budget, and your cable bill is like $200/mo, but instead of cutting back on that you decide to not to buy the bag of Hershey kisses that costs you $3-$5 a month, or not buy a magazine or two.

Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
What about the link? Satisfactory for what? Do we want a future for this country or not? Its that simple. If you don't want a future for this country then by all means continue on this path. I for one don't want to have future generations suffer because of our laziness and lack of trying to think outside the box. So either our only choice is more government intervention or more government intervention? That's one way to ensure things will remain more and more messy forever.

The ability of citizens end at a police, to protect you from criminals, the army, to protect you from foreign invaders and the courts, to protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others, to settle disputes by rational rules, according to objective law. Other than that citizens do have the ability to do anything without a massive encroaching government that spreads like a cancer throughout the country. Again we went from groups of unknown farmers to a world power by the early 20th century with the help of socialist programs?
Police, Army, Courts: government, government, government.

Here's the thing, what made us world power was war, innovation, science/technology and consumerism. We're still very good at the first, but like a constantly worn shoe the old proven luster just ain't cutting it like it used to. Innovation? Aside from Apple name me five other commercial innovations that are from this country in the last 12 years? We just had to cut our space program. Meantime South Korea is spearheading cyber-robotics, Germany as well, not to mention natural energies, etc. Where are we at? Congressmen in subcommittees of Space, Science and Technology talking about how The Big Bang Theory is "Straight from Satan". Consumerism? Alive and well but out of control in regards to goods not being made in this country.

What we REALLY have to ask is where did this need for "socialist programs" come from?(which we haven't even really peaked at, that honor goes to the Nixon era). Is it really the obvious answer that a majority of Americans just gave up and decided that the welfare life totally is the way to go? Or maybe, somewhere between the can do attitude of the 1950's and now, we lost not just jobs, but jobs you could raise a family on, and now we have a growing list of jobs that one person can barely support themself with. What's that gonna look like in 10/20/30 years when ? We've had a growth of low-paying jobs in this recession, while mid to high paying have remained virtually unchanged. And no I didn't believe the guy who made a career making money from creating debt and foisting it on to other businesses and selling them off and made the bulk of his fortune off of investments in China was gonna make that any better.

It is not a matter of thinking outside the box, its actually a very simple idea: Addressing the problem and everyone (or the majority) agreeing that IS the problem. But everyone has a newschannel now that strokes their little heads and tells them "no, no, no the sky truly is purple and all those people who say it isn't are just crazy" and yeah, nothing changes and we have to do the "Band-aid covers bullethole" remedy.