Thread: Obama has won
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  #193  
Old 11-19-2012, 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
Its only increasing because of government intervention in the first place and I already explained it in post 117. http://www.joblo.com/forums/showpost...&postcount=117



Why should a business be forced to take a loss? I've said before in this thread I'd rather not have this useless middle man getting in between the patient and the doctor to begin with. You seem to hate and vilify all these health insurers yet now you want everyone mandated to do business with them.



Again you believe I'm in love with these insurance companies. I'm not. I don't want these insurance companies to be a necessity. Yet now everyone is forced to do business with them thanks to legislation like Obamacare.



First of all many drug companies sell drugs FAR below market value and even give them away to poor people all around the world for all variety of diseases (including AIDS).

Second of all, even if they didn't, so what? You want drug producers to take huge risks with hundreds of millions dollars that it takes to research and produce new drugs when the overwhelming majority of research leads to dead ends and on the very few drugs that DO work, you don't want them to be able to reap the rewards of their massive gamble? Without patent protection, you wouldn't even get the chance to bemoan those big, bad, mean, drug companies for not sharing their fancy new drugs because those fancy, new drugs wouldn't even exist.

And please don't use a nebulous term like "price gouging" unless you're actually prepared to define it. It's a political expression meant to fire up voters and win elections but has no concrete meaning in the real world. A price is considered "price gouging" according to the whims of the person using the term "price gouging" and there are about 6 billion different definitions on what exactly that price is in the world. Bottom line, a price is whatever the market will bear - end of story.

As for drug reimportation, I have no problem with that.

The reason drug prices are so low in other countries is one (or both) of two reasons:

A) said country's government subsidizes the price

and/or

B) said country's government threatens to violate a given drug company's patent and sell dirt cheap generic versions unless the drug company submits to that country's price controls. Since the drug company's don't want their patents violated, they submit to the foreign governments' threats and all their drugs far below market value (or even at a loss). Since America doesn't have drug price controls, the companies make their profits by charging high prices here. At the end of the day, it's American consumers that end up subsidizing other country's socialist health care policies. If not for American consumers, you would see a drastic drop in the research and invention of new drugs and many drug companies would go out of business.

So in addition to all of the things I mentioned before like reducing governement restrictions, taxes, and eliminating subsidies, if you really want to help reduce costs and ultimately prices, our government should be doing a better job negotiating patent protections with foreign governements.



I think the long, extensive history of human charity in all its forms bears me out to be correct. There's AIDS walks, cancer charities, Jerry's Kids. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Altruism is not achieved through government force. As noted above many companies give free drugs to poor nations around the world. In many ways, government has taken over the role that various charities used to handle. I would ease government off and allow private charities (be they monetary handouts, food and shelter, job training, general education, home help, and so forth) to begin to come back into the fold.

Again for charities

1) There have been soup kitchens and other food charities for generations. And our country is now flush with more food than ever before. Heck, our own federal government even still subsidizes farmers to NOT grow shit in order to keep prices artificially high (thanks oh wise and benevolent Franklin Roosevelt). I'm quite certain that no single person in this country would die of starvation even if every single federal food stamp were eliminated.

2) There are many private charities that regularly offer vitamins to people (especially children). In fact we have so much of that shit that we just send it to children overseas.

3) There has LONG been a western tradition amongst doctors to treat people in emergency life-threatening situations regardless of their ability to pay. Ron Paul himself has been doing this his entire life. Like many doctors, he also offers payment plans for poorer patients and will frequently offer free care for those that truly cannot pay at all.

Unfortunately, we've been conditioned for so long in this country by the left-wing mainstream press and socialist professors to believe that more and more and more and more and more government is the one and only answer.
AHAHA. Socialist professors. Left-wing media. No, the media is very capitalist. Not being to the right of Mitt Romney is not left-wing.

Also, you don't even answer his question. All of the charities in the world do not make the impact that Social Security has had.