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Old 12-05-2012, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by adamjohnson View Post
You managed to focus on a single line you don't like, yet there's much more important things there, most of dealing with priorities.
That's because I already posted what I thought about them in my other posts in this thread.

I'll say again - more people having a higher education is not a bad thing. It never has been and it never will be. You say it's no coincidence the longer our public education has been around the worse and worse it has become - I agree, but for different reasons.
Sure its not a bad thing but for different reasons. And use any excuse you want about our education system. As soon as this country decided to make thousands of other things in our country controlled by the government it began to make priorities and government is always terrible at that.

The reason it is worse and worse is because of the increasingly low priority that is actually put on education. Now, we're at the point where it costs MORE for a WORSE education.
And again government is terrible at prioritizing. But if you want to look at "prioritizing" aka federal/state funding then take a look at the Newark school system for instance. They spend the most money per pupil in the country - over $20,000 per. And yet they are consistently amongst the lowest test scores in the country and barely graduate half their students. Lack. Of. State. Money. Is. Not. The. Issue.

There's a lot of things wrong with the education system, but they can be fixed given a higher priority. But in no way does that mean the more people with no education, the better.
Are we talking about quantity or quality? You may think you can have both but when push comes to shove eventually government draws a line somewhere.

Aren't we supposed to be the greatest country in the world, huge GDP, etc etc? Yet we're 7th in literacy, 27th in math, 22nd in Science, et al. Who's #1 and how did they get there?
Yeah we were supposed to but we have a zillion other things the government has decided to take over. Just cutting out the military or eliminating the Bush tax cuts aren't going to solve anything or even begin to solve things. Government will just find some useless other wasteful thing to spend on besides education.

Finland is regularly ranked as having one of the best-performing education systems in the world. The country's literacy rate is tops, its math proficiency second, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, an international trade group. Students from elementary through high school are among the world's best in test scores.
And again comparing apples to oranges. I refer to my Switzerland gun crimes and laws & culture again. If you want gun control then look at Switzerland's gun laws. It works so that automatically means we should do that.

A generation ago, that wasn't the case. In the 1970s, Finland's schools were among the worst in the developed world.
Because education doesn't exist in a bubble unaffected by the billions of other social policies and cultures that effect it.

What changed?

The problem was attacked on all sides, says Pasi Sahlberg, a former official in Finland's education ministry.

The country invested heavily in teacher education, requiring master's degree-based, five-year qualifications instead of three-year bachelor's degrees. Child poverty was addressed (because poverty and education often go hand in hand, which is why a free education is so important) with meals, health care, dental care and counseling -- all free of charge for children. Finally, the system pursued what Sahlberg calls "intelligent accountability" that combines standardized testing with teacher assessment and school self-inspection -- with an emphasis on the teachers, not the tests.
Why do you think its fair that only rich kids get to go to private schools? Private school have more money per student in the same area as public schools. Why are you pushing for a system where only children of rich parents get to have access to the schools with the most money?

You say we cant look at another country and just do what they do. I call bullshit. Obviously, there's a lot we can learn from other - better - countries.
Again look at Switzerland's gun culture and gun crimes.

And "better" countries? Better as in culturally better like as in less state entitlement minded? Maybe you've got a point there. We've been moving to emulate these countries for so long now that they're not only caught up to us but moving along side and ahead of us. I think there's a deep root in people's thinking that they want a one world government and new world order.

If we spent as much as we do on education as we do on killing people, we'd be well on our way.

We're backwards, man. Look at the other countries with bigger red bubbles - Russia, Iran, Pakistan, China, etc. We're the only First World Country who spends more on military than they do educating their citizens.
Again you can't "look" at one let alone 2 ways a nation spends its money. Yes military spending should be cut. Also should that prove all the more reason why government is and has been incapable to setting priorities? How much more proof do you need?

Also we're policing the world (which I'm against). We're doing everyone else a favor. If we reduced our military presence around the world other nations would have to step up their defenses and pretty soon you'll see those education vs military spending #s there look like ours.

Anyway judging a nation based on comparisons between 2 programs of hundreds of thousands of programs isn't looking at the big picture. Cutting military spending alone just isn't going to do it. We have oodles of entitlement programs already. Millions of people who depend on each one are going to want spending on theirs to increase. No politician is going to have the balls to cut anything so nothing ever gets cut. Until spending get confronted let alone actual cuts are made nothing is going to change. Until then its going to have to be quantity or quality you're not going to get both especially in our current state.

How do we "boost" education? We've already seen that throwing hundreds of billions of state and federal dollars at it through years hasn't exactly done much. Some of the school districts that spend the highest money per pupil in the country have the lowest test scores and lowest graduation rates. So what do you do?

If I had my way, I'd get rid of entire Departments.

Homeland Security? See ya'.
Agriculture? It's been nice knowin ya'.
Veterans Affairs? That used to be handled by Defense. Why don't you take a walk on back there?
Education? Please.
Energy? That's a joke.
Housing and Urban Development? You've gotta be kidding me.

And again as for "defense" spending, that is a huge problem and that's part of the reason why I consider most Republicans to be a joke. They claim they want to reduce spending yet are more than willing to throw away taxpayer dollars hand over fist on overseas crusades and military bases all around the world. Hypocrites, hypocrites, hypocrites.

Government primary function is to protect individual property rights and our freedoms. Government isn't supposed to be a charity, a world police, an educator, a doctor, a investor, a retirement planner, a wi-fi internet provider, God, etc.

If you really want to see student improvement, open the government education monopoly up to private competition. Offer vouchers with the taxpayer dollars that would normally go straight to failed government-run institutions and even allow private companies to sponsor their own schools. You could have Coca Cola High and Taco Bell Elementary. I'm not kidding. I know it sounds shocking and repulsive on the surface and yes, Coca Cola high will probably try to indoctrinate the students into choosing Coke over Pepsi for the rest of their lives but who gives a fuck if it results in a better and safer educational environment? Seriously.

Of course, the biggest obstacle is the extremely powerful teacher's union as they know that a break from the government monopoly would essentially break them. And just look at what superintendents make compared to teachers. How on Earth those salaries are justified I'll never know.

Last edited by creekin111; 12-08-2012 at 05:27 AM..
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