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  #1  
Old 03-15-2012, 02:27 PM
Official THE WOLF OF WALL STREET Thread (December 25, 2013)

Director Martin Scorsese and Leonardo DiCaprio are committing to make The Wolf of Wall Street their fifth collaboration. The film is based on the Jordan Belfort memoir of his days as a hard partying, drug addicted stockbroker who was indicted in 1998 for security fraud and money laundering and served a 22-month federal prison stretch. Shooting will begin August in New York.

http://www.deadline.com/2012/03/mart...fully-funding/

This is gonna be fuckin awesome. Has anyone else read the book? I highly recommend it. Leo is gonna own this role.

Last edited by SkyNet; 10-25-2013 at 09:30 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2012, 02:34 PM
Thank you, Jesus! Marty back to making Big Boy films....this sounds sooooo awesome. IMO, could be his best film since Goodfellas. *Crosses Fingers*
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2012, 03:14 PM
Please Marty, go back to your gritty film-making style. Bringing Out the Dead was the last gritty film you made and I'd love to see this film have a similar style.
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  #4  
Old 03-15-2012, 03:39 PM
I'm just glad Marty has decided what he is going to make next. Sounds like Leo is perfect for the role too.
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  #5  
Old 03-15-2012, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Please Marty, go back to your gritty film-making style. Bringing Out the Dead was the last gritty film you made and I'd love to see this film have a similar style.
This x1,000. I like The Departed more than you do, but only as fluffy entertainment. It's as far from gritty as possible and Marty does indeed need to head back into the territory.
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  #6  
Old 03-15-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AceD View Post
This x1,000. I like The Departed more than you do, but only as fluffy entertainment. It's as far from gritty as possible and Marty does indeed need to head back into the territory.
Haha, yeah I'm a broken record when it comes to the Departed; I guess I'm so vocal about it because it's so popular, and I'm a fan of Infernal Affairs. But yeah, I am not a fan of the glossy style of his recent films. It's okay for The Aviator, but The Departed could have used a much grittier look and feel to it. I mean he ripped off his own gangster movies like Goodfellas and Casino while making The Departed, so you'd think that he would emulate the grittiness as well. Could you imagine how much less interesting films like Taxi Driver and Mean Streets would be if they were as glossy as The Departed?
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  #7  
Old 03-15-2012, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Haha, yeah I'm a broken record when it comes to the Departed; I guess I'm so vocal about it because it's so popular, and I'm a fan of Infernal Affairs. But yeah, I am not a fan of the glossy style of his recent films. It's okay for The Aviator, but The Departed could have used a much grittier look and feel to it. I mean he ripped off his own gangster movies like Goodfellas and Casino while making The Departed, so you'd think that he would emulate the grittiness as well. Could you imagine how much less interesting films like Taxi Driver and Mean Streets would be if they were as glossy as The Departed?
Exactly. The Departed screams to be a gritty film, and Marty ran away from that. Would the '72 version of Marty have made it that way? No chance. If Marty made Taxi Driver these days, would it turn out pretty much Drive?
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  #8  
Old 03-15-2012, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AceD View Post
Exactly. The Departed screams to be a gritty film, and Marty ran away from that. Would the '72 version of Marty have made it that way? No chance. If Marty made Taxi Driver these days, would it turn out pretty much Drive?
Yeah, except it would have starred Leo and the soundtrack would just play Gimme Shelter over and over again.
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:07 PM
I don't really get the "glossy" argument when it comes to The Departed. Maybe for The Aviator, Shutter Island and Hugo, but The Departed doesn't strike me as a particularly glossy film. It's more modern and deals with the cop, therapist and criminal side of things, so I don't think it's necessary for the entire film to be balls-out gritty. And I think it has enough grit as it is anyway. Messy beat downs, smoke filled bars, knee-cappings, an extreme sense of paranoia, Nicholson bringing a severed hand to lunch. It may be more slickly shot than some of his earlier work, but I think it complements the modern setting and the upper-class nature of some of the characters. I love how we go from slick shots of Damon eating a French donut with his girlfriend in his beautiful condo that overlooks the city to DiCaprio beating down mobsters in a shitty Boston convenience store with a more chaotic style of shooting/editing.

I don't think we can expect Marty to make the same kinds of movies over and over again. One thing that is consistent throughout his career is his interest in the path of self-destruction. In the 70s, a character like Bickle was very relevant and very interesting to explore. With this film, The Wolf of Wall Street, it looks as though Marty is looking at self-destruction from the point of view of an individual who is more relevant to the current state of affairs in the States.

Last edited by Bourne101; 03-15-2012 at 06:18 PM..
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
I don't really get the "glossy" argument when it comes to The Departed. Maybe for The Aviator, Shutter Island and Hugo, but The Departed doesn't strike me as a particularly glossy film. It's more modern and deals with the cop, therapist and criminal side of things, so I don't think it's necessary for the entire film to be balls-out gritty. And I think it has enough grit as it is anyway. Messy beat downs, smoke filled bars, knee-cappings, an extreme sense of paranoia, Nicholson bringing a severed hand to lunch. It may be more slickly shot than some of his earlier work, but I think it complements the modern setting and the upper-class nature of some of the characters. I love how we go from slick shots of Damon eating a French donut with his girlfriend in his beautiful condo that overlooks the city to DiCaprio beating down mobsters in a shitty Boston convenience store with a more chaotic style of shooting/editing.

I don't think we can expect Marty to make the same kinds of movies over and over again. One thing that is consistent throughout his career is his interest in the path of self-destruction. In the 70s, a character like Bickle was very relevant and very interesting to explore. With this film, The Wolf of Wall Street, it looks as though Marty is looking at self-destruction from the point of view of an individual who is more relevant to the current state of affairs in the States.
Watch Taxi Driver and The Departed back-to-back.
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  #11  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Watch Taxi Driver and The Departed back-to-back.
Did you even read what I wrote? I'm not denying that Taxi Driver is gritter. I know it is. I'm just saying that it's a different story, a different era and examines different characters. I don't think a Taxi Driver level of grit is really appropriate for the story that The Departed tells.
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Did you even read what I wrote? I'm not denying that Taxi Driver is gritter. I know it is. I'm just saying that it's a different story, a different era and examines different characters. I don't think a Taxi Driver level of grit is really appropriate for the story that The Departed tells.
I read every word. You said The Departed doesn't strike you as a glossy film, it's very glossy when compared to Scorsese's early films. The donut thing can be slick but when we cut to the gangsters there should have been some grit to it. Yeah Leo is beating up guys, but there's no edge to it. It's like Marty has filmed so many beatdown scenes that he's just going through the motions. There is nothing in The Departed that comes close to touching the scene in Goodfellas when Ray Liotta beats the guy's face with the revolver. Don't even get me started on the CGI headshots at the end of the movie.

If you're happy with The Departed the way it is, that's fine, but I would have enjoyed more if it was grittier. To me, Leo's plight isn't very compelling because his life doesn't seem to be that bad. The Departed(and Infernal Affairs) is essentially a movie about struggling with your identity when you live a life of deception. Leo is working for the cops, but he's doing bad things. Damon is working in the police department, but he's an informant for the mob. Where does each character really stand? Leo's ultimate goal is to do the right thing, but in the process he's doing bad things, does that make him a bad person?

The parallels between the two main characters is the most compelling thing about the story, but Marty doesn't do much with this concept. Damon's character is completely bungled because they make him far too unlikable. It's clear that in The Departed Leo is the good guy and Damon is the bad guy. It was much more vague in Infernal Affairs. In that movie, Damon's character survives the movie, he kills the other mob informant, his former mob boss, and continues to work in the police dept. That was a much more interesting ending to me and really works with the theme about identity. The message in the Departed was basically "rats die."

Damon should have been more three dimensional, and Leo's scenes should have been more brutal and disturbing. We should like Leo but hate the things he does, show us the slime and grit of the criminal underworld he lives in, give him a reason to feel guilty about being a criminal, even if he's undercover.

Last edited by DaveyJoeG; 03-15-2012 at 06:44 PM..
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I read every word. You said The Departed doesn't strike you as a glossy film, it's very glossy when compared to Scorsese's early films. The donut thing can be slick but when we cut to the gangsters there should have been some grit to it. Yeah Leo is beating up guys, but there's no edge to it. It's like Marty has filmed so many beatdown scenes that he's just going through the motions. There is nothing in The Departed that comes close to touching the scene in Goodfellas when Ray Liotta beats the guy's face with the revolver. Don't even get me started on the CGI headshots at the end of the movie.
Well no, no scene in any movie really comes close to the beatdown in GoodFellas, but I don't think a beatdown like that should just be in the film for the sake of it. The brutality of that scene is very much about us being in Karen's shoes and realizing just what she has gotten herself into.

And I don't get how there is no edge in The Departed.

Do you consider this scene to be glossy or lacking edge?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyGR-jYC8RM

How about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haKMwbLhzeM

Again, I'm not saying that The Departed is as gritty as some of Marty's other films, but I think it's a bit silly to say it is "glossy". Less gritty might be a more appropriate term.
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:39 PM
Bourne, I agree that Marty shouldn't just make the same film over and over. I don't think anyone's calling for that. But nothing in The Departed feels ugly even though the story and choices of the characters are very ugly at times (the camera almost shies away from the severed hand, for instance). It's slick, it's stylized, it screams that it's a movie all the way through. Unlike DaveyThe, I think it's pretty entertaining, and some of the performances do elevate some scenes, but it's ultimately never as emotionally interesting or involving as the films it remade, much less Marty's earlier work. When Leo's killed, any emotional impact is levied by the litany of murders that follow in the next ten minutes. I actually don't hate the compressing of the Asian films, but it would have served the story better if it had been even a little drawn-out on screen.
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  #15  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:45 PM
I guess I would have been really excited about something like this years ago but the timing of this seems too late. Its a subject that's beaten to death in the news and media now everyday. Also the Scorsese/DiCaprio duo has been played out.

Last edited by creekin111; 03-15-2012 at 06:48 PM..
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  #16  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Well no, no scene in any movie really comes close to the beatdown in GoodFellas, but I don't think a beatdown like that should just be in the film for the sake of it. The brutality of that scene is very much about us being in Karen's shoes and realizing just what she has gotten herself into.

And I don't get how there is no edge in The Departed.

Do you consider this scene to be glossy or lacking edge?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyGR-jYC8RM

How about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haKMwbLhzeM

Again, I'm not saying that The Departed is as gritty as some of Marty's other films, but I think it's a bit silly to say it is "glossy". Less gritty might be a more appropriate term.
I edited my post above to add some more about why I think The Departed needs to be grittier. It's not that I want violence or ugliness just for the sake of it, it would actually add depth and dimension to the characters. The scenes you posted are fine conceptually, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. For example the gunshot to the knee is so quick(yet obviously CGI) that there's no real impact. Notice how there were no cuts in the Goodfellas scene I brought up? Which one has more impact?

Last edited by DaveyJoeG; 03-15-2012 at 06:52 PM..
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  #17  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I edited my post above to add some more about why I think The Departed needs to be grittier. It's not that I want violence or ugliness just for the sake of it, it would actually add depth and dimension to the characters. The scenes you posted are fine conceptually, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. For example the gunshot to the knee is so quick(yet obviously CGI) that there's no real impact. Notice how there were no cuts in the Goodfellas scene I brought up? Which one has more impact?
We'll have to agree to disagree on the movie. I think we were just looking for different things in the movie.

As for the knee shot, it was a gun shot, so there really isn't a lot else to show other than him getting shot and the blood spurt. It happens fast so that the chaotic nature of the scene can continue to flow. It would be silly to just show the dude sitting there as blood flows from his knee. We need to get back to the task at hand, which is Costigan finding out about Costello being an FBI informant. The gunshot is Costigan's method of motivating the guy to spill the beans.

And I already addressed the GoodFellas scene. It's silly to compare the two. The point of showing Hill pistol whipping the neighbour with an unbroken shot is so that we can experience what Karen is experiencing. She really knows what she has gotten herself into at this point. Before this, it is kind of ambiguous to her exactly what he is into.
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  #18  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree on the movie. I think we were just looking for different things in the movie.
I agree with this, I'm not trying to antagonize you, just having a nice discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
As for the knee shot, it was a gun shot, so there really isn't a lot else to show other than him getting shot and the blood spurt. It happens fast so that the chaotic nature of the scene can continue to flow. It would be silly to just show the dude sitting there as blood flows from his knee. We need to get back to the task at hand, which is Costigan finding out about Costello being an FBI informant. The gunshot is Costigan's method of motivating the guy to spill the beans.

And I already addressed the GoodFellas scene. It's silly to compare the two. The point of showing Hill pistol whipping the neighbour with an unbroken shot is so that we can experience what Karen is experiencing. She really knows what she has gotten herself into at this point. Before this, it is kind of ambiguous to her exactly what he is into.
I'm talking about the execution of the scenes. I get why Leo shot the guy, but that doesn't change the fact that there's no impact with that violence. That is actually violence for the sake of it. The violence in Gooodfellas scene served a purpose, and is considered a classic because of how memorable it is. I didn't even remember the knee scene from the Departed until you linked to it.

The fact that Leo is assaulting a criminal also lessens the impact of the scene, go back to what I was saying earlier. To give his character more depth, he should be doing stuff like that to innocent people. The movie is too afraid to have Leo do stuff that will make us hate him. At no point in the scene do we feel bad for the guy that Leo is assaulting, at no point do we think Leo went too far; I mean you're justifying why he just shot somebody in the kneecap. He should be doing things that the audience does not approve of. Damon should be doing things that the audience does approve of. These characters should be much more complex.

Why is it silly to compare these two scenes? One is an example of Marty in his prime, the other is an example of him phoning it in. Also, "it fucking huuuuuurts" is an awful line.

Last edited by DaveyJoeG; 03-15-2012 at 07:33 PM..
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  #19  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I'm talking about the execution of the scenes. I get why Leo shot the guy, but that doesn't change the fact that there's no impact with that violence. That is actually violence for the sake of it. The violence in Gooodfellas scene served a purpose, and is considered a classic because of how memorable it is. I didn't even remember the knee scene from the Departed until you linked to it.
It is quick and brutal, so we understand why the guy gives the information up so quickly. We can't linger on the gun shot due to the pacing of the scene and conversation. I don't understand how it could have been executed differently. It's pretty straight forward why it was shot the way it was shot.

It's plot oriented, but it still serves a purpose. It's not violence for the sake of violence, there is a reason why he shoots him. Maybe the shot being plot oriented is your problem with the film? The film is very plot oriented, which was essentially a first for Marty at that point. I welcomed the plot oriented nature of the film. I still found that it had very interesting characters (you didn't, I know), but also enjoyed Marty branching out a bit and trying something different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Why is it silly to compare these two scenes? One is an example of Marty in his prime, the other is an example of him phoning it in.
The violence in each of these scenes is used for very different purposes. One is used to introduce a character to the violent side of the world she has gotten herself into, and the other is to make us believe that a guy would give up information that could get him killed. I feel that both scenes serve their purpose very well and don't think that slower cutting of the latter scene would have improved its impact. The scene is great because of its chaotic nature and fast pacing.
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  #20  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
It is quick and brutal, so we understand why the guy gives the information up so quickly. We can't linger on the gun shot due to the pacing of the scene and conversation. I don't understand how it could have been executed differently. It's pretty straight forward why it was shot the way it was shot.
I don't necessarily think a longer shot is the answer, maybe the guy still doesn't give up the info and Leo has to put pressure on the gunshot wound to hurt him more. Basically I think Leo should have "gone too far" and there are plenty of ways to do that. Like I said, Leo should have been doing things that the audience simply does not approve of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
It's plot oriented, but it still serves a purpose. It's not violence for the sake of violence, there is a reason why he shoots him. Maybe the shot being plot oriented is your problem with the film? The film is very plot oriented, which was essentially a first for Marty at that point. I welcomed the plot oriented nature of the film. I still found that it had very interesting characters (you didn't, I know), but enjoyed Marty branching out a bit and trying something different.
Could be, the original film was much more of a character study, and I appreciated that fact about it. For me the interesting part wasn't who won or lost at the end of the movie(Leo's death should insinuate that that's not the point of the movie) but how far each character is willing to sink to continue their life of deception.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
The violence in each of these scenes is used for very different purposes. One is used to introduce a character to the violent side of the world she has gotten herself into, and the other is to make us believe that a guy would give up information that could get him killed. I feel that both scenes serve their purpose very well and don't think that slower cutting of the latter scene would have improved its impact. The scene is great because of its chaotic nature and fast pacing.
Well here you are comparing the two scenes, isn't that silly? Both scenes of violence may serve a purpose, but one serves character development, the other serves the plot. If you're going to make a violent film you need to go all the way with it. Goodfellas painted a negative portrait of the mafia. The Departed didn't really do much of anything. At the end of Goodfellas, you didn't want to join the mafia, at the end of The Departed, you were just glad that Matt Damon got killed. When you treat violence so carelessly, you can end up glorifying it or sensationalizing the movie. The more disturbing and off-putting scenes of violence are to an audience, the greater the impact, the more important the message, and the more responsible you are as a filmmaker.
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  #21  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Well here you are comparing the two scenes, isn't that silly? Both scenes of violence may serve a purpose, but one serves character development, the other serves the plot. If you're going to make a violent film you need to go all the way with it. Goodfellas painted a negative portrait of the mafia. The Departed didn't really do much of anything. At the end of Goodfellas, you didn't want to join the mafia, at the end of The Departed, you were just glad that Matt Damon got killed. When you treat violence so carelessly, you can end up glorifying it or sensationalizing the movie. The more disturbing and off-putting scenes of violence are to an audience, the greater the impact, the more important the message, and the more responsible you are as a filmmaker.
I meant comparing in terms of one being right and one being wrong. They're just two different approaches that both work well for different reasons.

I also disagree that the only thing you think at the end of the movie is that you are glad Damon is dead. I think DiCaprio's character is one of the better portraits of the anxiety and paranoia that comes with being an undercover cop (this movie destoys Donnie Brasco in that regard). I think the violence and chaos that he is exposed to (on top of DiCaprio's performance) really show just how incredibly difficult that job would be. If GoodFellas made you not want to join the mafia, then The Departed certainly made me not want to become an undercover cop.

Last edited by Bourne101; 03-15-2012 at 07:58 PM..
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2012, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
I also disagree that the only thing you think at the end of the movie is that you are glad Damon is dead. I think DiCaprio's character is one of the better portraits of the anxiety and paranoia that comes with being an undercover cop (this movie destoys Donnie Brasco in that regard). I think the violence and chaos that he is exposed to (on top of DiCaprio's performance) really show just how incredibly difficult that job would be. If GoodFellas made you not want to join the Mafia, then The Departed certainly made me not want to become an undercover cop.
Oh man, I disagree with that statement so much. I think Donnie Brasco is far and above a superior film than The Departed. There's much more depth in the characters and you are sympathetic to both Depp and Pacino's characters, despite the fact that they do questionable things. They show how Depp's undercover life is ruining his marriage. The line between Depp's mafia persona and his real identity is constantly being blurred. During one scene he acts like a criminal in his own home. The scene where Depp is forced to beat the shit out of a Japanese restaurant manager is exactly the type of thing I would have liked to see in The Departed. Here Depp is forced to do something that makes him hate himself, just to keep the charade going. At first he just lets his buddies do the beating, but then he jumps in himself and goes over-the-top with it. He wants to sell the persona, but there's also this sense that in the heat of the moment, Depp is actually enjoying the violence and the power trip. Despite 40 more minutes of screentime, Leo doesn't do anything this complex or interesting in the Departed.

BTW I just noticed that Goodfellas is listed as your favorite movie.

Last edited by DaveyJoeG; 03-15-2012 at 08:12 PM..
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2012, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Oh man, I disagree with that statement so much. I think Donnie Brasco is far and above a superior film than The Departed. There's much more depth in the characters and you are sympathetic to both Depp and Pacino's characters, despite the fact that they do questionable things. They show how Depp's undercover life is ruining his marriage. The line between Depp's mafia persona and his real identity is constantly being blurred. During one scene he acts like a criminal in his own home. The scene where Depp is forced to beat the shit out of a Japanese restaurant manager is exactly the type of thing I would have liked to see in The Departed. Here Depp is forced to do something that makes him hate himself, just to keep the charade going.
Brasco just fell flat for me. I remember people hyping it up and recommending that I watch it, and then when I did it just didn't have much of an impact on me. All of the things you say about it are true, but I just didn't feel that it had the proper depiction of paranoia and anxiety that comes with the job.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2012, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Brasco just fell flat for me. I remember people hyping it up and recommending that I watch it, and then when I did it just didn't have much of an impact on me. All of the things you say about it are true, but I just didn't feel that it had the proper depiction of paranoia and anxiety that comes with the job.
Well it's certainly a much more dry film than The Departed. Scorsese's films always have a ton of energy.
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2012, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Well it's certainly a much more dry film than The Departed. Scorsese's films always have a ton of energy.
I think some of it may have to do with Depp's performance. It's just kind of flat, if I remember correctly. DiCaprio gets lost in his role (I think it's his best) and you can really sense the stress and exhaustion in his performance. He really looks mentally and physically shaken and on edge.
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2012, 09:12 PM

Leo should of been nominated for The Departed (not for Blood Diamond) imo.

And creekin, I assure you that this will deliver (if they stick to the book).

Last edited by echo_bravo; 03-15-2012 at 09:23 PM..
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  #27  
Old 03-16-2012, 11:57 AM
He should have been double nommed that year (and won for Revolutionary Road, and nommed for The Basketball Diaries, and nommed for Catch Me If You Can). Directors (i.e. Soderbergh) can be nominated twice in their category, and they should extend that ability to actors as well.
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  #28  
Old 03-16-2012, 12:13 PM
I don't know, I think Leo tends to overact in some of his movies, like The Departed. All of that yelling and shouting seems a bit forced, that's probably why the Academy decided to nominate his much more subdued performance in Blood Diamond. Johnny Depp's performance in Donnie Brasco is much more subtle and realistic, whereas Leo seems to be channeling the more theatrical performances of the 50s.
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  #29  
Old 03-16-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I don't know, I think Leo tends to overact in some of his movies, like The Departed. All of that yelling and shouting seems a bit forced... Leo seems to be channeling the more theatrical performances of the 50s.
Agreed. He really struggles with the accent in The Departed and raising the voice hides that a bit so perhaps that's why he leaned that way a bit too much. I do think he can be very very good, but I don't think he's very good in The Departed.

And is there actually a rule that an actor can't be nominated for two different performances in the same year? I thought it was possible just unlikely.
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  #30  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I don't know, I think Leo tends to overact in some of his movies, like The Departed. All of that yelling and shouting seems a bit forced, that's probably why the Academy decided to nominate his much more subdued performance in Blood Diamond. Johnny Depp's performance in Donnie Brasco is much more subtle and realistic, whereas Leo seems to be channeling the more theatrical performances of the 50s.
There's a difference between subtle and just completely flat. I wouldn't call it more realistic either. What are you basing this on?

DiCaprio may give an intense performance, but I don't think he particularly goes over the top. Yelling in some scenes is not equivalent to going over the top. I don't think there is a scene in the film where he yells where it is unjustified or unrealistic.

The thing I really like about DiCaprio's performance is that you can tell that the character is shaken and on edge. Not just because DiCaprio yells in some scenes, but within his facial expressions, line delivery, reactions, etc. It's a very detailed performance and I think a lot of people miss out on these details the first few times they watch the movie. A good example is the "I smell a rat" scene. You can really tell the toll that his job has taken on him.

Last edited by Bourne101; 03-16-2012 at 03:27 PM..
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  #31  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
There's a difference between subtle and just completely flat. I wouldn't call it more realistic either. What are you basing this on?
I think DiCaprio's performance is a bit unrealistic because in real life, people don't ask so theatrically. When you're stressed out and anxious, you try to hide your issues as much as possible, especially if you're an undercover cop trying to conceal your identity. DiCaprio externalized every bit of his emotion, which just doesn't happen a lot in real life. If you judge both performances, Depp's character did a much better job slipping into his criminal persona, and the mobsters in The Departed should've figured out Leo and put a bullet in his head within the first act. In The Departed, Leo uses a very 50s style of over-the-top, theatrical acting that went out of style a few decades ago. Depp seemed like a real human being with internal struggles, whereas Leo seemed like a caricature.

Also, like AceD said, his accent was very iffy.


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Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
The thing I really like about DiCaprio's performance is that you can tell that the character is shaken and on edge. Not just because DiCaprio yells in some scenes, but within his facial expressions, line delivery, reactions, etc. It's a very detailed performance and I think a lot of people miss out on these details the first few times they watch the movie. A good example is the "I smell a rat" scene. You can really tell the toll that his job has taken on him.
No kidding you can tell, Leo might as well have been screaming "I'm fucking stressed!" It would go along great with the "It fucking hurts" line. I think Leo's a fine actor but this is not one of his better performances, and seeing him in the Departed made me appreciate Depp's subtle performance in Donnie Brasco even more.
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  #32  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AceD View Post
Agreed. He really struggles with the accent in The Departed and raising the voice hides that a bit so perhaps that's why he leaned that way a bit too much. I do think he can be very very good, but I don't think he's very good in The Departed.

And is there actually a rule that an actor can't be nominated for two different performances in the same year? I thought it was possible just unlikely.
Yeah, the rules don't allow it. One lead and one supporting is allowable, and does happen from time to time (Blanchett, Julianne Moore, etc.). Once upon a time actors could have their nomination associated with multiple films, though (like that critics award Chastain received).
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  #33  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Trilljoy View Post
Yeah, the rules don't allow it. One lead and one supporting is allowable, and does happen from time to time (Blanchett, Julianne Moore, etc.). Once upon a time actors could have their nomination associated with multiple films, though (like that critics award Chastain received).
I had no idea about that rule. Seems kind of silly, however some actors may not want to be nominated twice because that could split the vote and hurt their chances of winning either one.
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  #34  
Old 03-16-2012, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I think DiCaprio's performance is a bit unrealistic because in real life, people don't ask so theatrically. When you're stressed out and anxious, you try to hide your issues as much as possible, especially if you're an undercover cop trying to conceal your identity. DiCaprio externalized every bit of his emotion, which just doesn't happen a lot in real life. If you judge both performances, Depp's character did a much better job slipping into his criminal persona, and the mobsters in The Departed should've figured out Leo and put a bullet in his head within the first act. In The Departed, Leo uses a very 50s style of over-the-top, theatrical acting that went out of style a few decades ago. Depp seemed like a real human being with internal struggles, whereas Leo seemed like a caricature.

Also, like AceD said, his accent was very iffy.




No kidding you can tell, Leo might as well have been screaming "I'm fucking stressed!" It would go along great with the "It fucking hurts" line. I think Leo's a fine actor but this is not one of his better performances, and seeing him in the Departed made me appreciate Depp's subtle performance in Donnie Brasco even more.
I don't think his accent was iffy at all, indeed it seemed as solid if not moreso than Damon's and even Wahlberg's. What you're calling theatrical acting I see as naturalistic as well. I think Depp is the one (and I like him) who can often seem too divorced from feeling as intensely as a character should feel at a certain point, as if he is lamely mimicking and pantomiming rather than emoting. Subtlety has become a euphemism for lack of affect or a kind of banal normalcy more appropriate for medical documentaries than drama.
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  #35  
Old 03-16-2012, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
I think DiCaprio's performance is a bit unrealistic because in real life, people don't ask so theatrically. When you're stressed out and anxious, you try to hide your issues as much as possible, especially if you're an undercover cop trying to conceal your identity.DiCaprio externalized every bit of his emotion, which just doesn't happen a lot in real life.
The scenes where he yells tend to be the ones with the therapist, the police who have thrown him into this shitty situation, when he's roughing someone up, and when Damon erases his identity. All of these situations seem like appropriate scenes for an undercover cop experiencing extreme anxiety to vent. When he's around the mob guys, he tends to be a bit more reserved.

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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
If you judge both performances, Depp's character did a much better job slipping into his criminal persona, and the mobsters in The Departed should've figured out Leo and put a bullet in his head within the first act.
I think the obviousness of the character being an undercover has more to do with the character's history and less with DiCaprio's performance. Like I said, when DiCaprio is around the mob guys he is more subdued and lets his stress ball up. He vents when he's not around mass murdering Jack Nicholson and Ray Winstone.

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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Also, like AceD said, his accent was very iffy.
I'm not really the best judge of accents and rarely use it as a criticism if the rest of the performance is excellent, so it wasn't really a big deal for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
No kidding you can tell, Leo might as well have been screaming "I'm fucking stressed!" It would go along great with the "It fucking hurts" line. I think Leo's a fine actor but this is not one of his better performances, and seeing him in the Departed made me appreciate Depp's subtle performance in Donnie Brasco even more.
Being on edge and looking like you haven't slept in months aren't exactly things that you can control. Maybe in the Donnie Brasco world.

And again, what you are seeing as subtle in that performance, I am seeing as flat. As a result, the film becomes flat and less intense than it should be.

Last edited by Bourne101; 03-16-2012 at 04:11 PM..
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  #36  
Old 03-16-2012, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Trilljoy View Post
I don't think his accent was iffy at all, indeed it seemed as solid if not moreso than Damon's and even Wahlberg's. What you're calling theatrical acting I see as naturalistic as well. I think Depp is the one (and I like him) who can often seem too divorced from feeling as intensely as a character should feel at a certain point, as if he is lamely mimicking and pantomiming rather than emoting. Subtlety has become a euphemism for lack of affect or a kind of banal normalcy more appropriate for medical documentaries than drama.
Damon's actually from Boston, his accent, and performance as a whole, felt much more authentic to me than DiCaprio's. Whalberg is just kind of there, I hated his character.


Bourne101, it seems that we'll have to agree to disagree, we clearly prefer different styles of films and performances. Are you on the east coast? We'll have to get together to argue film over a beer sometime.
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  #37  
Old 03-16-2012, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Bourne101, it seems that we'll have to agree to disagree, we clearly prefer different styles of films and performances. Are you on the east coast? We'll have to get together to argue film over a beer sometime.
No problem. I don't really know if we prefer different styles of films and performances (your favorite film, Raging Bull, is my third favorite film of all-time, and Heat is probably in my top 25-30), I just think we look for different things when it comes to the portrayal of the kind of character DiCaprio and Depp play in The Departed and Donnie Brasco, respectively. Maybe it just comes from our notions of what undercover cops are like. I have an uncle who was an undercover cop, so maybe his stories have influenced how I expect that kind of character to be portrayed.

As for The Departed as a film, I just find it highly entertaining and enjoy its fast paced, energetic and intense nature. It's not as good as Taxi Driver, Raging Bull or GoodFellas, obviously, but I thought it was an interesting take on modern crime in a city that Marty had never explored before.

And yep, I'm on the east coast.

Last edited by Bourne101; 03-16-2012 at 06:07 PM..
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  #38  
Old 03-16-2012, 06:37 PM
^True, aside from these flicks, we probably agree more often than not. I will also admit that with filmmakers I find enormously talented, I'm much harder on them when it comes to films that I think are lacking, B-movie material, or just mediocre. The Departed is miles better than anything directors like McG or Stephen Sommers have ever done; but considering Scorsese is my favorite American director, I was severely disappointed with this film, especially considering I was a big fan of the original flick.

The fact that the movie was enormously popular and winning awards left and right kind of exacerbated my frustrations with the film and left me scratching my head. I can totally understand why you guys appreciate the film, I just think that considering the amount of talent working on the film, and the potential with the story from the original movie, The Departed should have been much better.

Interesting that your uncle was an undercover cop. Have you ever discussed these movies, or specifically the performances of Leo/Depp, with him?
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  #39  
Old 03-16-2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Damon's actually from Boston, his accent, and performance as a whole, felt much more authentic to me than DiCaprio's. Whalberg is just kind of there, I hated his character.


Bourne101, it seems that we'll have to agree to disagree, we clearly prefer different styles of films and performances. Are you on the east coast? We'll have to get together to argue film over a beer sometime.
Yeah, I know Damon and Wahlberg are from Boston, but even so I thought their accents only as convincing as Leo's. I really did like Damon's performance though, as I thought him and Leo the standouts of the film and equally effective.
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  #40  
Old 03-16-2012, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyJoeG View Post
Interesting that your uncle was an undercover cop. Have you ever discussed these movies, or specifically the performances of Leo/Depp, with him?
He's seen The Departed and thought that Leo did a good job of portraying the paranoia, stress and exhaustion. His situation wasn't nearly as extreme as that, but he remembers being incredibly paranoid and not sleeping for days at a time. I don't think he has seen Brasco though.

Funnily enough, an actual situation that happened to him is similar to something that happens in 21 Jump Street. He was at a bar one time with the crew he was in with and an old friend of his walked into the bar and started yelling his actual name and trying to get his attention (similar to the old woman blowing Jonah Hill's cover at the shoe store). Obviously it wasn't funny like in that movie, but a similar kind of thing.
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