Kirk Cameron: Homosexuality Is "Detrimental and Destructive"

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by The Postmaster General

I hear you but Kirk doesn't have to be pushed to say this kind of stuff. I mean, he makes videos about it and this isn't his first interview saying this kinds of things.

For the life of me, I don't understand the whole "polite about sharing your belief" thing. The thing with what Kirk said is that you can say the same thing about essentially anyone who doesn't believe as much as he believes they should in order to not be a detriment and destruction to society. So why just gays, right? Well, he was asked so he had to say what he believed. What if he'd been asked about Jews? I mean, let's say he was totally polite and nice about it, but said that Jews were a detriment and destructive. Hell, let's make it topical - what if he'd been asked about Muslims?

Even a toddler should have some sense of manners and being nice. Manners and nice words will only get you so far because they should really be the least expected thing from anyone. Fewer people will spit in your face and maybe someone will even talk to you while standing in line at a buffet. The fact of the matter is that even the most mannered and polite person in the world can be a total piece of shit. Kirk will smile at a gay person all day long, shake their hand, pat them on the shoulder, but as soon as they turn away, he will be saying they are a detriment to society. I don't know if being polite about being an asshole makes one any less of an asshole.

And sure, he believes this. That's fine. I respect that. He believes gays are detrimental and destructive and he can carry on all he wants. My belief is that people who say shit like he's saying sound like assholes. So me and Kirk are just a couple guys using our rights to express our beliefs. Only one of us costarred with a character named Boner, though. Kirk - 1, Me - 0.

ZING!

You substitute "homosexual" with "Blacks, Jews, Asians, Hispanics, etc." and you've got a fucking racist piece of shit. Oh, but because it's GAYS, he's "just being polite".

Well said PMG.

[starcat]

You are correct, if he had said those terms it probably would have been worse. But why would he... It says nowhere in the Bible that being any of those things are wrong. In fact, Jesus wasnt white, and Jewish people are Gods chosen people, which is what I think many Christians problems with Jewish people are, jeaolousy. It does say in the Bible that homosexuality is a abomination, but it says the same thing about eating shrimp... and I cant imagine someone going to hell for going to Red Lobster for the Endless Shrimp days. I streamed an awesome documentary on Netflix called For the Bible Tells Me So... it was all about homosexuality and Christianity... very thought provoking stuff, and wild to see the different stances that are taken on the subject.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally Posted by Reigh Kaufman

Somdomite

Like this guy?

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by starcat

You are correct, if he had said those terms it probably would have been worse. But why would he... It says nowhere in the Bible that being any of those things are wrong. In fact, Jesus wasnt white, and Jewish people are Gods chosen people, which is what I think many Christians problems with Jewish people are, jeaolousy. It does say in the Bible that homosexuality is a abomination, but it says the same thing about eating shrimp... and I cant imagine someone going to hell for going to Red Lobster for the Endless Shrimp days. I streamed an awesome documentary on Netflix called For the Bible Tells Me So... it was all about homosexuality and Christianity... very thought provoking stuff, and wild to see the different stances that are taken on the subject.

You're missing the point, I think. Anyway, think what you will.

I'll be damned if I follow some book of fairy tales written by men to scare people into believing their off-base, nonsensical "rules" and "morals".

[Exophrine]

Originally Posted by Buck Turgidson

Like this guy?

hey, don't you be sayin' shit 'bout my man, Dolemite

[Badbird]

Odds of Kirk Cameron getting busted in a male prostitute sting: shall we say, what, about 50/50?

[MovieMaster]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

I'll be damned

Yep, you got that right.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by MovieMaster

Yep, you got that right.

If I go to hell, when I'm on my way there - I'm going to tell "god" to kiss my fucking ass, that motherfucker, and flip him off as well. I mean, what's the worst that could happen at that point?

[ClydeNut]

I find it really disrespectful to call the belief system of millions of people "fairy tales" and shoot them all off as mindless idiots. Whether you believe in it or not, you should at least respect it. It's just in bad taste.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by ClydeNut

I find it really disrespectful to call the belief system of millions of people "fairy tales" and shoot them all off as mindless idiots. Whether you believe in it or not, you should at least respect it. It's just in bad taste.

It's just that I find religion detrimental and destructive. That's all. I'm trying to be very polite now. If I found out my kid was a bible-thumping jesus-freak, I might just have to disown them.

Remind you of anyone at all?

[ClydeNut]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

It's just that I find religion detrimental and destructive. That's all. I'm trying to be very polite now. If I found out my kid was a bible-thumping jesus-freak, I might just have to disown them.

Remind you of anyone at all?

I don't see the point you're trying to make. If there is one. It has nothing to do with what I just said. If I have to repeat it yet again, I just wish people were tolerant. People like Kirk Cameron are one thing. Don't act like he's representative of everyone that happens to be a Christian, because guess what? Not every person who believes in a religion responds to it in the same way.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by ClydeNut

I don't see the point you're trying to make.

I don't know how much more blatantly obvious I could've made it there for you Clyde. If you don't see the point I'm trying to make, there's nothing more I can tell you.

I have NO respect for religion in general whatsoever. I never will. It's a truly distasteful and disgusting thing that I wish were never created.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by starcat

You are correct, if he had said those terms it probably would have been worse. But why would he... It says nowhere in the Bible that being any of those things are wrong. In fact, Jesus wasnt white, and Jewish people are Gods chosen people, which is what I think many Christians problems with Jewish people are, jeaolousy. It does say in the Bible that homosexuality is a abomination, but it says the same thing about eating shrimp... and I cant imagine someone going to hell for going to Red Lobster for the Endless Shrimp days. I streamed an awesome documentary on Netflix called For the Bible Tells Me So... it was all about homosexuality and Christianity... very thought provoking stuff, and wild to see the different stances that are taken on the subject.

Okay, then... So why isn't he on a crusade against shrimp? You know, I don't really have literature or statistics to think this, but still I can't help to be pretty sure that the consumption of shrimp is a much more wide spread than homosexuality. What quality is it that Kirk has to make him spend so much more time degrading a group of people than attacking something that has no feelings and would fret not the content of his words? I believe that quality would be assholishness.

Sure, I don't know if him going on record to speak out against shrimp would make him sound like as much of an ass, but can we be clear that the problem isn't his belief but was actually the words he used to express his belief.

What he did was the equivalent of telling a woman she looks fat in a dress, except way worse since it's attacking something much bigger than appearance. Much worse because of what's at stake for people, but none of that really matters anyway because it doesn't matter to people like Kirk. I don't slight them on that but just saying it's ignorant and anyone who says otherwise is wearing blinders on this. For some convenient reason, the people who argue with this kind of stuff manage to pretend like homosexuals are completely void of emotion, moral and value. It doesn't really matter what we say about them, because they are beneath us so obviously when someone says they are dirty people -- those offended were offended by religion, not because something completely rude was said. The reason I compared races and religions is because we are talking about people, not crustaceans. It should have been more obvious than how it was taken.

And yeah, religious opponents can say things that are completely rude too. Fortunately for them, though - they don't have proponents lying through their teeth acting like such behavior is not only not noticed, but a fundament to the belief system.

[ClydeNut]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

I don't know how much more blatantly obvious I could've made it there for you Clyde. If you don't see the point I'm trying to make, there's nothing more I can tell you.

I have NO respect for religion in general whatsoever. I never will. It's a truly distasteful and disgusting thing that I wish were never created.

Well then you're no better than those who hate gays, in my book. Now I'm not going to change your mind, so I'm done with this.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by ClydeNut

Well then you're no better than those who hate gays, in my book. Now I'm not going to change your mind, so I'm done with this.

But the difference is, my disdain is justified (what's the number 1 cause of wars in the world? You guessed it, religion). Theirs is not. Plus, I am NOT judging an entire group of people at all, like good ole Kirk is. I'm judging a belief system. Homosexuality is an in-born trait, like having brown eyes or light hair. He's no better than a racist/bigot.

I'm condemning ideals, he's condemning people. Try to understand the difference here.

[ClydeNut]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

But the difference is, my disdain is justified (what's the number 1 cause of wars in the world? You guessed it, religion). Theirs is not. Plus, I am NOT judging an entire group of people at all, like good ole Kirk is. I'm judging a belief system. Homosexuality is an in-born trait, like having brown eyes or light hair. He's no better than a racist/bigot.

I'm condemning ideals, he's condemning people. Try to understand the difference here.

You make a point here. But truthfully, I don't believe for a single second that you would be okay with it if your children decided to become religious.

I'll say this one more goddamn time: I just wish people were tolerant. Of people's lifestyle choices, beliefs, etc. Not every Christian is a bigoted homophobe.

[Badbird]

Originally Posted by ClydeNut

I find it really disrespectful to call the belief system of millions of people "fairy tales" and shoot them all off as mindless idiots. Whether you believe in it or not, you should at least respect it. It's just in bad taste.

I will respect the individual person, not the system they may or may mot believe in wholeheartedly.

Should we respect the most barbaric forms of Islam that subjugate women and treat them like slaves? Should we respect the Catholic church that has knowingly protected child molesters for decades? Nope.

It is a false argument that if you don't tolerate the intolerant that you are "just as bad" as the intolerant. People like Kirk Cameron should be rightly shunned for their bigotry, no matter what their justification for it is.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by ClydeNut

You make a point here. But truthfully, I don't believe for a single second that you would be okay with it if your children decided to become religious.

I was saying that to make a point. I wasn't serious.

I'll say this one more goddamn time: I just wish people were tolerant. Of people's lifestyle choices, beliefs, etc. Not every Christian is a bigoted homophobe.

Assuming you're a christian, it's funny you use the phrase "god damned" when referring to people being accepting of said religion. You're right, not EVERY christian IS a bigoted homophobe, but many are. That's just the tip of the iceberg as far as why I can't stand religion though.

[ClydeNut]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

I was saying that to make a point. I wasn't serious.

I know when you said that you were imitating Cameron. What I said was unrelated to that. In general, I don't believe you would be wholeheartedly okay with your children being Christian, just based on how you speak.

Originally Posted by jaw2929

Assuming you're a christian, it's funny you use the phrase "god damned" when referring to people being accepting of said religion. You're right, not EVERY christian IS a bigoted homophobe, but many are. That's just the tip of the iceberg as far as why I can't stand religion though.

I'm not a Christian, believe it or not there are some agnostics like myself that defend religion.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by ClydeNut

I know when you said that you were imitating Cameron. What I said was unrelated to that. In general, I don't believe you would be wholeheartedly okay with your children being Christian, just based on how you speak.

If they truly felt religion is what made them happy and is a useful support system, I'd be for it. I probably would be tentative at first, but each to their own. This is a moot point anyway, since I'll not be contributing to the over-population of this planet.

I'm not a Christian, believe it or not there are some agnostics like myself that defend religion.

Interesting. I'll be god damned as to WHY you do, but interesting nonetheless!

[ClydeNut]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

Interesting. I'll be god damned as to WHY you do, but interesting nonetheless!

You'd be surprised. Outside of your computer there are quite a lot of people in the real world who are actually tolerant of others' beliefs and don't make fun of them from a standpoint of being "better" than them.

Remind you of anyone at all?

[MovieMaster]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

Assuming you're a christian, it's funny you use the phrase "god damned" when referring to people being accepting of said religion. You're right, not EVERY christian IS a bigoted homophobe, but many are. That's just the tip of the iceberg as far as why I can't stand religion though.

You sound like Kirk Cameron if he were an atheist.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by MovieMaster

You sound like Kirk Cameron if he were an atheist.

That's my point. And I'm agnostic, not atheist (borderline atheist, but not quite).

[MovieMaster]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

That's my point. And I'm agnostic, not atheist (borderline atheist, but not quite).

Your point is that it is NOT ok for him to not like a group of people but it is ok for you to not like a group of people?

[adamjohnson]

Christians are atheists except for one, specific deity. Atheists just take it one step further.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by MovieMaster

Your point is that it is NOT ok for him to not like a group of people but it is ok for you to not like a group of people?

It's not a "group of people" I am condemning. It's a set of ideals and principles people live their lives by. Homosexuality is NOT the same as religion. Kirk was bashing people, I am bashing ideals.

Scroll up and read my previous reply's to clyde. Keep up there Moviemaster, come on now!

[ClydeNut]

What's the difference between condemning a group of ideals and a group of people that follow them? Nothing.

[MovieMaster]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

It's not a "group of people" I am condemning. It's a set of ideals and principles people live their lives by. Homosexuality is NOT the same as religion. Kirk was bashing people, I am bashing ideals.

Scroll up and read my previous reply's to clyde. Keep up there Moviemaster, come on now!

No you are clearly bashing people in most of your posts. You do not seem to understand the difference. Your response is something atheist Kirk Cameron would say.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by MovieMaster

No you are clearly bashing people in most of your posts. You do not seem to understand the difference. Your response is something atheist Kirk Cameron would say.

Am I CLEARLY bashing people? Please give me one example of this, where I'm bashing people or a person.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by ClydeNut

What's the difference between condemning a group of ideals and a group of people that follow them? Nothing.

Because the ideals exist. The people can choose whether to follow them or not. Man made up those ideals. I am not bashing the people who follow them (unless it's assholes like Cameron), I'm bashing those specific ideals, the fact they exist makes me nauseous.

Here's the thing Clyde and MovieMaster - clearly we could argue all day long about this and it would never end. I don't agree with the concept of organized religion, you don't like that I don't agree with the concept of organized religion. Is it possible we can just leave it at that amicably?

[MovieMaster]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

Is it possible we can just leave it at that amicably?

Maybe if you apologized to those you insulted, yea that would be fine with me.

[MovieMaster]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

Am I CLEARLY bashing people? Please give me one example of this, where I'm bashing people or a person.

If you can not see how your posts bash people, you might need to have your eyes checked.

[ClydeNut]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

Because the ideals exist. The people can choose whether to follow them or not. Man made up those ideals. I am not bashing the people who follow them (unless it's assholes like Cameron), I'm bashing those specific ideals, the fact they exist makes me nauseous.

Here's the thing Clyde and MovieMaster - clearly we could argue all day long about this and it would never end. I don't agree with the concept of organized religion, you don't like that I don't agree with the concept of organized religion. Is it possible we can just leave it at that amicably?

You still don't get it. I don't care whether or not you agree with organized religion -- what bothers me is how hateful you are towards it and clearly to anyone that participates in it.

If by leaving it at that "amicably"(I guess that's what they call condescension nowadays) you mean that you take the foot out of your mouth and go away, then hooray. If not, well I still won't talk to you, because I'm baffled that I wasted this much time here in the first place. goodbye.

[ClydeNut]

Originally Posted by Badbird

I will respect the individual person, not the system they may or may mot believe in wholeheartedly.

Should we respect the most barbaric forms of Islam that subjugate women and treat them like slaves? Should we respect the Catholic church that has knowingly protected child molesters for decades? Nope.

It is a false argument that if you don't tolerate the intolerant that you are "just as bad" as the intolerant. People like Kirk Cameron should be rightly shunned for their bigotry, no matter what their justification for it is.

What I was saying in the first place wasn't really about what Kirk said, just what jaw2929 was saying. I think Kirk Cameron's a twat, and most well-minded people would probably think so too. Don't tolerate him, that's not what I was saying. Instead of blaming the entire religion for it, and going with the lie that everyone in it thought the same way, blame the group of people within that religion that think so poorly.

Anyways, apparently my point is lost and I've caused a stir for just trying to ask for some tolerance and respect, so I'll just leave it there I guess.

[jaw2929]

Originally Posted by MovieMaster

Maybe if you apologized to those you insulted, yea that would be fine with me.

I insulted no one specifically. Therefore I owe no one in particular an apology.

I will NOT apologize for having great animosity towards organized religion in general.

Originally Posted by ClydeNut

You still don't get it. I don't care whether or not you agree with organized religion -- what bothers me is how hateful you are towards it and clearly to anyone that participates in it.

If by leaving it at that "amicably"(I guess that's what they call condescension nowadays) you mean that you take the foot out of your mouth and go away, then hooray. If not, well I still won't talk to you, because I'm baffled that I wasted this much time here in the first place. goodbye.

I totally have disdain and hate for religion in general, you bet. The people who follow it (with the exception of hateful bigots like Cameron) I could care less about. I'm apathetic towards.

My bet is that you're most likely going to respond to this.... I will be awaiting your reply.

[MovieMaster]

Originally Posted by jaw2929

(with the exception of hateful bigots like Cameron)

big·ot
[big-uht]
noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.



So your bigotry is ok but Kirk's is forbidden?


I am just trying to understand how your brain is working on this one. Everything you are saying against Kirk Cameron, you are turning around and doing yourself and blindly ignoring the fact that you are doing it by saying "its ideals man not a person so I am cool".

In case you are curious, I added the definition of bigot above because I think you do not understand what the word means. You are kind of like Clayton Bigsby, you run around, blind as a bat, calling someone something and have no idea that you are what you hate.

[adamjohnson]

Originally Posted by ClydeNut

What's the difference between condemning a group of ideals and a group of people that follow them? Nothing.

You choose to follow a religion. You dont choose to be gay.

[MovieMaster]

Originally Posted by adamjohnson

You choose to follow a religion. You dont choose to be gay.

Depends on the household you grow up in. Some people are born/raised/die a certain religion with really no choice.

That is not the case every time but it happens more than you would think.

[adamjohnson]

MovieMaster, you act as if christianity hasnt been spilling blood for hundreds of years. That is even has a RIGHT to be defended after the centuries of harm it's caused.

I think religion turns people into fucking idiots. A lot of them otherwise good, decent people, who have just been hammered with it from a young age. Jaw doesnt want to say it, I will. It's fucking brainwashing. I see no difference between organized religion and the Manchurian Candidate.

You see children out there with the Westboro Baptist Church yelling "Kill the faggots!". They dont know what the'yre saying, they're just following. Thats who religion is for. Followers.

At best, Christianity is a set of moral guidelines. Dont steal. Dont kill people. Etc. No fucking shit. I dont need a book to tell me what is right and what is wrong, and what Kirk does and says, and what an awful lot - and increasing - number of christians do and say in the name of their god, is wrong. Plain and simple.

Someday, somewhere, a person like Kirk Cameron will find themselves in a position of power. We can only hope it's not in this country (Im looking at you, Santorum.) But somewhere a religious extremist, a far-right conservative, will become ruler or president. If that happens, it wont be long before being gay is illegal, and punishable by death.

Actually, it's already happening in Uganda. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_...sexuality_Bill

You dont see Buddhists out there murdering people. Its a religion. The teaching of the fictional character of Jesus - not so bad, mostly based around Eastern religion and the teaching of the Buddha, mixed in with Hercules (father a god, mother a human, wander the earth, etc.), mostly about being a hippie and being kind to one another. But, if it was ever even real, Christianity has twisted it.

Not all religion is bad, per se. Taoism, for example, is quite peaceful and involves being harmonious with nature, grown out of 6000 years of Chinese culture. So, no, not all religion is bad. But yours is.

There has been too many altar boys molested, too many wars started, too much blood spilled, too many hate crimes committed - and all in he name of their "Lord" - for me to ever, ever, have any respect for anyone that so blindly follows something that is so very plainly and openly bigoted, hateful and murderous.

[adamjohnson]

Originally Posted by MovieMaster

Depends on the household you grow up in. Some people are born/raised/die a certain religion with really no choice.

That is not the case every time but it happens more than you would think.

Of course, I was raised a Christian. Never liked going to church from a young age. I stopped going before I was even 10.

I had a choice. I exercised it. Being born into a religion is not a real thing, being born into a sexual orientation is, just look at yourself. You were born straight.

Some people aren't.