Romney's Faith

[Preston_79]

Regardless of his values and morals, or even the fact that he attended church for many years, Obama was labeled as a Muslim by some on the right because they knew it could hurt his chances of being elected. Now I'm hearing Christians defend Romney being a Mormon by saying that his even though they may not consider him a Christian (no offense Mormons), at least he has the same morals and values.

I find it interesting how Mormon's were able to buddy up with Christians. I read some poll was taken that said only 40 or so percent of voters were aware Romney was a Mormon.

Anyone else care to share their thoughts regarding any of this?

[jolanar]

Well at least with Romney you get a sense that he is very sincere about his faith, which is bonus points for me. He's been involved with the church is whole life, has always been a family man and loyal to his wife. So I personally believe he is a sincere Mormon. I personally don't believe in religion, but it irks me when people are fake/hypocritical about it.

Where as with Obama you just can't really tell. I don't believe for a second that he is a sincere Christian. He only goes to Church to campaign. Most likely he is just an atheist/agnostic who only does as little as possible because in order to get elected in America you have to pretend to be a Christian. I don't think he is a Muslim, but ultimately he may have more in common with Muslims than with Christians. I don't mean terrorists obviously, but he spent a lot of his youth in the largest Muslim country on the planet so there is no way that hasn't impacted his life as much or more than Christianity.

One of the reasons Christians have accepted Romney so easily is because Obama's faith just isn't there and he disagrees with most Church's stances on things like gay marriage and other social issues.

I know ardent Christians who seriously wavered in their belief in Obama when he changed his stance on gay marriage. Despite a lot of things (like the idea that Republicans are all crazy religious nuts), democrats could not get enough voters without Christians.

[SS-Block]

That's kinda scary that religion is a criteria of so many voters for the election of President in one of, if not, the most powerful countries in the World and whose actions are far from Christian.

That idyllic small town surrounded by meadows, if it ever existed, has been replaced with overcrowded and overpolluted cities surrounded by overworked and overpolluted industrial farms. A nation where the little guy can succeed, if that ever existed, has been replaced with oligopolies gobbling up everything. Wars fought to protect people's freedom, if that ever existed, has been replaced with wars to invade and destroy (terrorise) nations who are then left with no other choice but to borrow money from the World Bank.

Why does the American Christian voter still believe that religion should be a criteria when almost all previous Christian Presidents have pandered to the same Godless plutocracy.

[SS-Block]

Originally Posted by jolanar

One of the reasons Christians have accepted Romney so easily is because Obama's faith just isn't there and he disagrees with most Church's stances on things like gay marriage and other social issues.

Lol. Gay people's attempts at monogamy and marriage is the least un-Christian, if it is un-Christian, issue for Christians to contend with.

The corrupt investment banking system, corrupt geo-political issues, the poor in America and world-wide, child safety from paedophilia, human trafficking, helping people overcome addictions and prostitution, reducing pollution, reducing violence, and i'm sure there are other issues, all of which should be a more pressing concern than two people of the same gender being in love.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally Posted by jolanar

Where as with Obama you just can't really tell. I don't believe for a second that he is a sincere Christian. He only goes to Church to campaign. Most likely he is just an atheist/agnostic who only does as little as possible because in order to get elected in America you have to pretend to be a Christian. I don't think he is a Muslim, but ultimately he may have more in common with Muslims than with Christians. I don't mean terrorists obviously, but he spent a lot of his youth in the largest Muslim country on the planet so there is no way that hasn't impacted his life as much or more than Christianity.

I sense you meant well with this post, but this is ALL conjecture and has no political relevance whatsoever. This has nothing to do with wedge issues like abortion and gay marriage. This is all fallout from the Wright controversy and the idea that Obama is either A.) a religious extremist of SOME sort who has to keep a mild-mannered facade or B.) too educated and too cultured to be a sincerely religious person. The first view is extremely nutty and the second one is extremely cynical and I don't believe either one really hits it on the nose. Obama's background is so unlike Carter's, or Clinton's, or Bush's, or any other openly religious president we've had, so it's easier to make this assumption about his character because it follows a more familiar narrative.

But, this thread is about Romney's religion. Mormonism is strange and even looking at it objectively through my agnostic/atheist eyes it's a little weirder than most other religions. However, Mormonism has a long history and it played an important role in the history of the American West. Maybe not a great history, but the religion has certainly left its mark on parts of the country. Whatever. I'm not voting for Romney anyway but I don't think his weird religion should disqualify him from office any more than Obama's weird religion (i.e., Christianity).

[QUENTIN]

Originally Posted by jolanar

I don't think he is a Muslim, but ultimately he may have more in common with Muslims than with Christians. I don't mean terrorists obviously, but he spent a lot of his youth in the largest Muslim country on the planet so there is no way that hasn't impacted his life as much or more than Christianity.

Spending four years of his youth in the largest Muslim country on the planet had equal or greater impact than spending 14 years of his youth and 33 years of his adulthood in the largest Christian nation on the planet? How do you figure?

Originally Posted by SS-Block

Why does the American Christian voter still believe that religion should be a criteria when almost all previous Christian Presidents have pandered to the same Godless plutocracy.

Originally Posted by SS-Block

Lol. Gay people's attempts at monogamy and marriage is the least un-Christian, if it is un-Christian, issue for Christians to contend with.

The corrupt investment banking system, corrupt geo-political issues, the poor in America and world-wide, child safety from paedophilia, human trafficking, helping people overcome addictions and prostitution, reducing pollution, reducing violence, and i'm sure there are other issues, all of which should be a more pressing concern than two people of the same gender being in love.

Not often I agree with you, but cheers.

IIRC, most protestants and Catholics do not consider Mormons Christians. Romney's faith means he's slightly more gullible than most other believers, only because Mormonism is more recent.

[Preston_79]

I think most Christians would agree that it says in the Bible states that no man should ever add to it. I don't know the actually passage. Mormons gave us the Book of Mormon though, and included all these Christian figures, including Jesus. Jesus was from another planet, had multiple wives. There were pyramids in North America, and the natives spoke Hebrew. There's no historical evidence to back any of it up. There are over 30,000 practicing polygamists in Utah! They all consider themselves Mormon despite what the mainstream Mormons say.

Romney believes the back story to Mormonism and I think that speaks volumes.

[Badbird]

I don't think Obama is a closet atheist. At best, deep down he may be an agnostic theist. But more likely he's just an a-la-cart christian like most Americans.

I just find it amusing that three of the biggest current champions of the Republican party are:

A Mormon - Mitt
An Atheist - Ayn Rand
and a Hindu - 2016 guy


In the end, I'd rather a politician keep his faith private than wear it on his sleeve.


*Edit - hey, 7000 posts...

[Vong]

Any politician who believes their pajama's have magic powers would never get my vote.

Though, like others, I do give him credit for sticking with it the entire time.

[Preston_79]

Originally Posted by Vong

Any politician who believes their pajama's have magic powers would never get my vote.

Though, like others, I do give him credit for sticking with it the entire time.

I've talked to Mormons who take offense to them being called "magic underwear". That's pretty much what they are in laymen's terms. Can't burn them, or penetrate them with a knife or bullet. It seems some in the Mormon faith view them more of a symbol that them literally being able to do any of that magical stuff. However, I know there are many Mormons who do believe the underwear have some kind of divine power.

[electriclite]

I have to give credit, during this election no one, not even during the republican primaries has made any issue of Romney's religion. But I have heard of Evangelicals stating they would not vote for Romney specifically because he's a Mormon. They'd rather not vote then vote for either Obama or Romney.

Its also interesting that Romney's VP is a Catholic. I have no idea how Evangelicals feel about Catholics.

While both the R&R ticket are on the surface stunningly milquetoast, them being the choice of a party that has been vocally Evangelical for over a decade is somewhat daring.

[AceD]

Originally Posted by electriclite

Its also interesting that Romney's VP is a Catholic. I have no idea how Evangelicals feel about Catholics.

My experience is that Catholics and evangelicals are VERY eager to distance themselves from each other in a religious sense. Obviously there's endless similarities, but the nature of sin and forgiveness (the foundational tenets of both) are pretty contradictory between the two.

[The Postmaster General]

Someone tell me more about these magic underwear.

[Badbird]

Originally Posted by The Postmaster General

Someone tell me more about these magic underwear.

Well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cbfgmorIGE

[The Postmaster General]

Originally Posted by Badbird

Well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cbfgmorIGE

Thanks.

Now my question is whether anyone has fetishized these garments. Google Images isn't helping me answer the question.

[Preston_79]

Originally Posted by electriclite

I have to give credit, during this election no one, not even during the republican primaries has made any issue of Romney's religion.

I wish more people would make an issue out of religion. If candidates didn't want to share their religious beliefs that would be awesome. Should they decide to let it be known in order to get votes, then it's open to attack.

[Badbird]

Originally Posted by Preston_79

I wish more people would make an issue out of religion. If candidates didn't want to share their religious beliefs that would be awesome. Should they decide to let it be known in order to get votes, then it's open to attack.

Ironically enough, that was one of the things that led to Jimmy Carter's unpopularity at the time: people thought he was too openly religious.

[magjournal]

Religion has no place in politics. I understand that politics are influenced by personal beliefs, which, for many people, are influenced by their religion. That being said, I would vote for a Satanist if I was cool with all of his policies. I really couldn't care less who he worships in the privacy of his own home so long as he doesn't let that get in the way of his doing a good job in office.

That's just my two cents.

[The Postmaster General]

I don't care if a politician expresses their religious beliefs. I have a bigger problem with them telling me what bands they like.

[Scotch]

Considering the fact that at least 95% of America doesn't do real research about Presidential candidates and just listen to what Fox News/MSNBC tell them it'd be fun to have an election that for once doesn't tell you where the candidates stand in terms of religion, gay marriage, abortion, gun control, and taxes. You know, the unimportant stuff that is only used as hot button issues to stir emotions in the stereotypical, blindly-led voter. I know it's hard for some to take time out of their crazy life to actually read up on people who will be leading this country but it'd be fun to see people have to use their brain for once.

Oh.....SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

[Erroneous]

MY first political post. Oh boy. Who let this guy in?


I could care less about Mitt or Obama's religion. I wihs just one of them would just say the truth and say they worship the all mighty dollar in the house of sin (Fort Knox)

[jeo4]

Originally Posted by Erroneous

MY first political post. Oh boy. Who let this guy in?


I could care less about Mitt or Obama's religion. I wihs just one of them would just say the truth and say they worship the all mighty dollar in the house of sin (Fort Knox)

I thought that was clearly printed beneath the "Hi, my name is..." tag.

Welcome to the Politics.

[Roy Batty]

Originally Posted by jolanar

Well at least with Romney you get a sense that he is very sincere about his faith, which is bonus points for me. He's been involved with the church is whole life, has always been a family man and loyal to his wife. So I personally believe he is a sincere Mormon. I personally don't believe in religion, but it irks me when people are fake/hypocritical about it.

Where as with Obama you just can't really tell. I don't believe for a second that he is a sincere Christian. He only goes to Church to campaign. Most likely he is just an atheist/agnostic who only does as little as possible because in order to get elected in America you have to pretend to be a Christian. I don't think he is a Muslim, but ultimately he may have more in common with Muslims than with Christians. I don't mean terrorists obviously, but he spent a lot of his youth in the largest Muslim country on the planet so there is no way that hasn't impacted his life as much or more than Christianity.

One of the reasons Christians have accepted Romney so easily is because Obama's faith just isn't there and he disagrees with most Church's stances on things like gay marriage and other social issues.

I know ardent Christians who seriously wavered in their belief in Obama when he changed his stance on gay marriage. Despite a lot of things (like the idea that Republicans are all crazy religious nuts), democrats could not get enough voters without Christians.

I have no say over how people choose to vote but I never understood this stance. Obama is not a true Christian, he's agnostic or atheist, who cares? If I wanted a President to profess their undying love for a deist, and more specifically one with a name and physical presence, I'd move to a religious based state, not a secular one. I myself believe Obama probably is agnostic but--like you said yourself--in order to get votes he has to appeal to the majority of this country which are Christians. The reason right-wing Republicans flock to Romney and don't criticize his faith is because Mormonism is essentially Christianity but replace Jerusalem with the United States and add Joseph Smith as one of the prophets and there's honestly not a big difference. Contrary to you, Obama's lack of a religious conviction is one of the many reasons he's getting my vote this Fall.

This is a quote I love taken from his book, The Audacity of Hope

I was not raised in a religious household. For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness. However, in her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology.

On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites.In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well.

[Jim Colyer]

Mitt Romney will be one of our great presidents.

[Roy Batty]

Originally Posted by Jim Colyer

Mitt Romney will be one of our great presidents.

What other things can you tell me from the future?

[Jim Colyer]

Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123

What other things can you tell me from the future?

The sun will burn out in 5 billion years but before then, the human race will have moved to other parts of the galaxy.

[Roy Batty]

Originally Posted by Jim Colyer

The sun will burn out in 5 billion years but before then, the human race will have moved to other parts of the galaxy.

Is Christianity still around?

[Vong]

Obama was baptized and goes to church regularly. How is he not a Christian?

[SS-Block]

Originally Posted by Vong

Obama was baptized and goes to church regularly. How is he not a Christian?

Hopefully there's more to religion than the ceremonies.

[ericdraven]

Originally Posted by Jim Colyer

Mitt Romney will be one of our great presidents.

You do know when he brings back the deregulation policies that Bush had, the Economy will plummet?

[Vong]

Originally Posted by SS-Block

Hopefully there's more to religion than the ceremonies.

If the guy does everything a devout Christian would do/say on a daily basis, what makes him the contrary?

Is this like the whole "he's not black enough to be 'Black'" bullshit?

Fuck, American politics is retarded...

[DaveyJoeG]

Originally Posted by Vong

Fuck, American politics is retarded...

I agree that it's awful, but to be fair it's like that with most countries.

[AceD]

Originally Posted by Vong

If the guy does everything a devout Christian would do/say on a daily basis, what makes him the contrary?

Agreed, but if we're going by the Bible -- the only thing that makes sense to go by if we're evaluating someone who claims to be a Christian --

It continues to baffle me that there's a thought that someone can believe everything Christians claim to stand for but not feel the need to prosthelytize. I question the depth of Obama's faith purely because it clearly doesn't mean much to him day-to-day. There's just not room for that in what the Bible actually teaches. In and of itself that doesn't change my feelings for him as a leader -- we're certainly not electing a pastor, we're electing a president -- but his lack of understanding of his own faith seems to either indicate insincerity (to sway voters) or daftness (which doesn't seem to be his M.O., regardless of anyone's feelings for him). Both options are concerning to me.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

The fact that a religious person who doesn't hit people over the head with his beliefs is somehow seen as a character flaw is really disturbing.

[AceD]

Originally Posted by Brando @$$ Fat

The fact that a religious person who doesn't hit people over the head with his beliefs is somehow seen as a character flaw is really disturbing.

Don't think that's what I said, man. Sorry if it came off that way.

There's an enormous difference between hitting someone over the head and telling people what you believe. If someone believes you're going to hell, shouldn't swaying you from that path be important to them? Obviously banging the Bible over you is not the way to do that, but if someone believes what the Bible says and doesn't say anything to anyone about it because they might offend someone, what does that say about them and what they believe?

[Roy Batty]

Originally Posted by AceD

Don't think that's what I said, man. Sorry if it came off that way.

There's an enormous difference between hitting someone over the head and telling people what you believe. If someone believes you're going to hell, shouldn't swaying you from that path be important to them? Obviously banging the Bible over you is not the way to do that, but if someone believes what the Bible says and doesn't say anything to anyone about it because they might offend someone, what does that say about them and what they believe?

That they respect other people's beliefs

[AceD]

Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123

That they respect other people's beliefs

Again, I think there's a way to present something new without disrespecting what someone already believes.

If I knew terrorists had put a bomb in a building, would not telling anyone because I might offend their belief that there's not a bomb in the building be the right thing to do? Of course not. That's an imperfect analogy, I know, but the point is that if Christians believe what the Bible says, than people who don't follow that belief system are headed to a much worse fate. Wouldn't the risk of being offensive be worth it to potentially save someone from that? That's my point. If someone believes the Bible's teachings about hell, would they really want to not tell people what they believe so that they could say, Well, that person's in hell, but at least I didn't offend them. Again, I'm not talking about bashing people or their beliefs or about violent extremes. Obviously all of that is wrong. But isn't it much more disrespectful and offensive to stay silent if you believe people are headed for destruction?

Again, my point is that there's no point to claiming Christianity without following it through.

[Erroneous]

Originally Posted by ericdraven

You do know when he brings back the deregulation policies that Bush had, the Economy will plummet?

You do know that the key piece of deregulation happened during Clinton's years? Funny how he has a commercial saying Romney will do what he did. It is almost like him doing an ad on not cheating on your wife.

[Vong]

The fact that little is done to help the poor and billionaires are rewarded for being greedy, it's hard to believe anyone in American politics is a true ”by the book” Christian.

[AceD]

Originally Posted by Vong

The fact that little is done to help the poor and billionaires are rewarded for being greedy, it's hard to believe anyone in American politics is a true ”by the book” Christian.

Absolutely. As I said, I don't get the mindset of Christians, especially those who have gone toward Romney, whose beliefs are certainly more anti-Biblical than Obama's.