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  #1  
Old 11-08-2012, 04:49 AM
No thread on Colorado's mary jane legalization???

Damn, rejoice! Though what is this bullshit about federal law still banning it? I do hope this is the beginning of some sorts for ending this stupid fucking prohibition.

Common sense people: http://marijuanamajority.com/
  #2  
Old 11-08-2012, 05:56 AM
.

Last edited by SS-Block; 03-31-2014 at 05:14 PM..
  #3  
Old 11-08-2012, 03:23 PM
Well there's always going to be the Feds unfortunately.
  #4  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:42 PM
And also:



-Oh, and Puerto Rico voted in favor of becoming the 51st State.


Tuesday was a gift that LITERALLY kept on giving.
  #5  
Old 11-08-2012, 11:43 PM
The Washington marijuana Bill is all sorts of fucked up apparently. They have some weird DUI laws that make it so that if you ever smoke weed you can't legally drive. Also all growers have to enroll with the state Alcohol and Tobacco org who reports directly to the ATF which is a federal organization so:



Also just wanted to ask on that pic above, why is there a check mark next to Maryland? Isn't it supposed to be a 'X'? Oh but I'm sure they pay more than their fair share of taxes that will more than cover the cost of our already hemorrhaging education overcrowded classrooms and economy. We need to fix our immigration system but stuff like this is backwards and especially a slap in the face to legal immigrant families. Do people even know why we have immigration laws today?

Hey foreigners, knock up someone then dangerously sneak into our country while dragging your kids with you you're good to go for a free education for them. Its bad enough they're risking their lives sneaking into this country but now we want them to risk their children's lives as well by giving more of them an incentive to break the law coming here? Perhaps we need to address other areas of our immigration system and not backwards ass shit like this. If education and coming to this country is so important for your child then do it by the proper prior established channels.

There's a few other questionable 'checks' and 'x' marks on that as well. "Yay more 'benefits' yay more 'benefits'!... yeah but how are we paying for this?... I dunno but yay more 'benefits'!
  #6  
Old 11-09-2012, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
The Washington marijuana Bill is all sorts of fucked up apparently. They have some weird DUI laws that make it so that if you ever smoke weed you can't legally drive. Also all growers have to enroll with the state Alcohol and Tobacco org who reports directly to the ATF which is a federal organization so:



Also just wanted to ask on that pic above, why is there a check mark next to Maryland? Isn't it supposed to be a 'X'? Oh but I'm sure they pay more than their fair share of taxes that will more than cover the cost of our already hemorrhaging education overcrowded classrooms and economy. We need to fix our immigration system but stuff like this is backwards and especially a slap in the face to legal immigrant families. Do people even know why we have immigration laws today?

Hey foreigners, knock up someone then dangerously sneak into our country while dragging your kids with you you're good to go for a free education for them. Its bad enough they're risking their lives sneaking into this country but now we want them to risk their children's lives as well by giving more of them an incentive to break the law coming here? Perhaps we need to address other areas of our immigration system and not backwards ass shit like this. If education and coming to this country is so important for your child then do it by the proper prior established channels.

There's a few other questionable 'checks' and 'x' marks on that as well. "Yay more 'benefits' yay more 'benefits'!... yeah but how are we paying for this?... I dunno but yay more 'benefits'!

Well Californians actually voted to raise taxes so they could actually pay for things like education, sanitation and necessities. So there's at least one state that knows you can't get something for nothing.

In regards to immigration reform the answer is here:

Cuban Refugee Adjustment Act

If they're gonna come here en masse, might as well make it a more streamlined process to legitimize them.

Granted the Dems are useless to such a staggering degree when it comes to seizing the moment, but it astounds me none of them have used it as a method of leveraging more power against the Republicans amongst Latinos. Think about it: if the Republicans in Washington want to fight against applying the CRAA, to illegals coming out of Mexico, they'll have to start criticizing the CRAA itself, like "legitimate rape" type of criticizing, which they've been so prone to since the Affordable Healthcare debacle. They are nearly incapable of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I mean any argument they make will by association insult Cubans, they can't avoid falling into that mess. It'd be a great test to see if the election has burst their bubble or if its back to business as usual. This of course would PISS OFF Cubans (seriously, the CRAA is like gospel), who overwhelmingly vote Republican and would find the party further alienating Latino voters. Or they could just agree and TAH-DAH! Immigration reform!

Last edited by electriclite; 11-09-2012 at 09:14 AM..
  #7  
Old 11-09-2012, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclite View Post
Well Californians actually voted to raise taxes so they could actually pay for things like education, sanitation and necessities. So there's at least one state that knows you can't get something for nothing.

In regards to immigration reform the answer is here:

Cuban Refugee Adjustment Act

If they're gonna come here en masse, might as well make it a more streamlined process to legitimize them.

Granted the Dems are useless to such a staggering degree when it comes to seizing the moment, but it astounds me none of them have used it as a method of leveraging more power against the Republicans amongst Latinos. Think about it: if the Republicans in Washington want to fight against applying the CRAA, to illegals coming out of Mexico, they'll have to start criticizing the CRAA itself, like "legitimate rape" type of criticizing, which they've been so prone to since the Affordable Healthcare debacle. They are nearly incapable of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I mean any argument they make will by association insult Cubans, they can't avoid falling into that mess. It'd be a great test to see if the election has burst their bubble or if its back to business as usual. This of course would PISS OFF Cubans (seriously, the CRAA is like gospel), who overwhelmingly vote Republican and would find the party further alienating Latino voters. Or they could just agree and TAH-DAH! Immigration reform!
You can't have a streamlined immigration policy the way our government is today. Back in the 19th century when there was literally no welfare and socialism you could get away with it. It might make sense today if there wasn't a welfare system, free education, and free hospital care that they can benefit from.

I'm all for a streamlined immigration system in this country but we have to seriously start getting rid of welfare system if we truly want to embrace more open borders. We're already giving enough welfare to too many Americans in this country we can't afford to give welfare to those who haven't even paid a dime yet to this country (let alone all of the foreign aid we give some of these nations to begin with). It is also a matter of principle.

So what is the answer? Seriously.

Do we completely close the borders down and stop ALL immigration? Period.

Do we completely open the borders up and let anybody in anytime? Period.

Is it somewhere in between? Do we keep some sort of immigration system in place like we have today where you have to apply, wait a certain period, and pass a test? Should you be required to understand English?

What about people that "skip the line" and don't go through the same procedure that legal immigrants take? Are they allowed to stay? Is the rule, you can't come in without following X procedure but if you manage to sneak by then congratulations, you're also in?

What about illegal aliens that have babies here in the states? Is the rule that if you can sneak in and drop a baby on American soil you're allowed to stay? If not, what happens to the kid? Is he kicked out too?

What's the answer? I ask this seriously as I've met very few people on either the left or the right with a consistent, concrete answer to this question.

Would illegals essentially be allowed to continue to break the law so long as the don't break another law?

And what about illegal aliens that may have been indirectly involved in a crime or have seen a crime or have had a crime committed against them? Would they be able to freely go to the police without the fear of being deported?
  #8  
Old 11-09-2012, 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
You can't have a streamlined immigration policy the way our government is today. Back in the 19th century when there was literally no welfare and socialism you could get away with it. It might make sense today if there wasn't a welfare system, free education, and free hospital care that they can benefit from.

I'm all for a streamlined immigration system in this country but we have to seriously start getting rid of welfare system if we truly want to embrace more open borders. We're already giving enough welfare to too many Americans in this country we can't afford to give welfare to those who haven't even paid a dime yet to this country (let alone all of the foreign aid we give some of these nations to begin with). It is also a matter of principle.

So what is the answer? Seriously.

Do we completely close the borders down and stop ALL immigration? Period.

Do we completely open the borders up and let anybody in anytime? Period.

Is it somewhere in between? Do we keep some sort of immigration system in place like we have today where you have to apply, wait a certain period, and pass a test? Should you be required to understand English?

What about people that "skip the line" and don't go through the same procedure that legal immigrants take? Are they allowed to stay? Is the rule, you can't come in without following X procedure but if you manage to sneak by then congratulations, you're also in?

What about illegal aliens that have babies here in the states? Is the rule that if you can sneak in and drop a baby on American soil you're allowed to stay? If not, what happens to the kid? Is he kicked out too?

What's the answer? I ask this seriously as I've met very few people on either the left or the right with a consistent, concrete answer to this question.

Would illegals essentially be allowed to continue to break the law so long as the don't break another law?

And what about illegal aliens that may have been indirectly involved in a crime or have seen a crime or have had a crime committed against them? Would they be able to freely go to the police without the fear of being deported?
Ok first, the foreign aid is not what's indebting us, it barely makes a dent. People need to stop citing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
Do we completely close the borders down and stop ALL immigration? Period.

Do we completely open the borders up and let anybody in anytime? Period.

Is it somewhere in between? Do we keep some sort of immigration system in place like we have today where you have to apply, wait a certain period, and pass a test? Should you be required to understand English?
I feel like you didn't read the link.

In all instances there's absolutely no way to fix all those problems in any satisfactory way. And that's not just our government, that's any government. There is always some end left dangling without a solution, (at least not by government) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to make some kind of headway where we are able to. Where the abilities of citizens end that's where government comes in. Its always messy its always been messy, its just a matter of making sure the mess doesn't overwhelm.
  #9  
Old 11-09-2012, 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclite View Post
Ok first, the foreign aid is not what's indebting us, it barely makes a dent. People need to stop citing that.
We have millions of things that are "barely making a dent" but yet altogether it adds up. "Its ok if it adds to our debt as long as its not 'x' amount." Well great you're just encouraging yet more and more number of small spending habits. Do you even have a clue how many social programs we have today as opposed to 10/20/30 years ago? Foreign aid also supports countries that other nations hate so then they wind up hating us. Friends of enemies are now your enemies. And yes it is a lot. People need to stop citing how "little things cost" when its still a matter of principle.

Quote:
I feel like you didn't read the link.

In all instances there's absolutely no way to fix all those problems in any satisfactory way. And that's not just our government, that's any government. There is always some end left dangling without a solution, (at least not by government) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to make some kind of headway where we are able to. Where the abilities of citizens end that's where government comes in. Its always messy its always been messy, its just a matter of making sure the mess doesn't overwhelm.
What about the link? Satisfactory for what? Do we want a future for this country or not? Its that simple. If you don't want a future for this country then by all means continue on this path. I for one don't want to have future generations suffer because of our laziness and lack of trying to think outside the box. So either our only choice is more government intervention or more government intervention? That's one way to ensure things will remain more and more messy forever.

The ability of citizens end at a police, to protect you from criminals, the army, to protect you from foreign invaders and the courts, to protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others, to settle disputes by rational rules, according to objective law. Other than that citizens do have the ability to do anything without a massive encroaching government that spreads like a cancer throughout the country. Again we went from groups of unknown farmers to a world power by the early 20th century with the help of socialist programs?
  #10  
Old 11-10-2012, 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
We have millions of things that are "barely making a dent" but yet altogether it adds up. "Its ok if it adds to our debt as long as its not 'x' amount." Well great you're just encouraging yet more and more number of small spending habits. Do you even have a clue how many social programs we have today as opposed to 10/20/30 years ago? Foreign aid also supports countries that other nations hate so then they wind up hating us. Friends of enemies are now your enemies. And yes it is a lot. People need to stop citing how "little things cost" when its still a matter of principle.
And we have a couple things that make a pretty HUGE dent. Its like making a budget, and your cable bill is like $200/mo, but instead of cutting back on that you decide to not to buy the bag of Hershey kisses that costs you $3-$5 a month, or not buy a magazine or two.




Quote:
Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
What about the link? Satisfactory for what? Do we want a future for this country or not? Its that simple. If you don't want a future for this country then by all means continue on this path. I for one don't want to have future generations suffer because of our laziness and lack of trying to think outside the box. So either our only choice is more government intervention or more government intervention? That's one way to ensure things will remain more and more messy forever.

The ability of citizens end at a police, to protect you from criminals, the army, to protect you from foreign invaders and the courts, to protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others, to settle disputes by rational rules, according to objective law. Other than that citizens do have the ability to do anything without a massive encroaching government that spreads like a cancer throughout the country. Again we went from groups of unknown farmers to a world power by the early 20th century with the help of socialist programs?
Police, Army, Courts: government, government, government.

Here's the thing, what made us world power was war, innovation, science/technology and consumerism. We're still very good at the first, but like a constantly worn shoe the old proven luster just ain't cutting it like it used to. Innovation? Aside from Apple name me five other commercial innovations that are from this country in the last 12 years? We just had to cut our space program. Meantime South Korea is spearheading cyber-robotics, Germany as well, not to mention natural energies, etc. Where are we at? Congressmen in subcommittees of Space, Science and Technology talking about how The Big Bang Theory is "Straight from Satan". Consumerism? Alive and well but out of control in regards to goods not being made in this country.


What we REALLY have to ask is where did this need for "socialist programs" come from?(which we haven't even really peaked at, that honor goes to the Nixon era). Is it really the obvious answer that a majority of Americans just gave up and decided that the welfare life totally is the way to go? Or maybe, somewhere between the can do attitude of the 1950's and now, we lost not just jobs, but jobs you could raise a family on, and now we have a growing list of jobs that one person can barely support themself with. What's that gonna look like in 10/20/30 years when ? We've had a growth of low-paying jobs in this recession, while mid to high paying have remained virtually unchanged. And no I didn't believe the guy who made a career making money from creating debt and foisting it on to other businesses and selling them off and made the bulk of his fortune off of investments in China was gonna make that any better.

It is not a matter of thinking outside the box, its actually a very simple idea: Addressing the problem and everyone (or the majority) agreeing that IS the problem. But everyone has a newschannel now that strokes their little heads and tells them "no, no, no the sky truly is purple and all those people who say it isn't are just crazy" and yeah, nothing changes and we have to do the "Band-aid covers bullethole" remedy.
  #11  
Old 11-10-2012, 02:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclite View Post
And we have a couple things that make a pretty HUGE dent. Its like making a budget, and your cable bill is like $200/mo, but instead of cutting back on that you decide to not to buy the bag of Hershey kisses that costs you $3-$5 a month, or not buy a magazine or two.
The problem is you're ignoring the real problem. Its like you're justifying buying $5,000 worth of candy per month because the Hershey kisses only cost $3-5 a month. "But the kit kats only cost $3... what's the point in cutting that? The gummy bears only cost $2... What's the point in cutting that? The tic tacs only cost $1... What's the point in cutting that? And on and on... How about this novel concept? Cut everything across the board.

I wouldn't even use candy as a metaphor for government. Its more like letting strangers in your house and taking a nickel. Sure a nickel isn't much but if there are 50,000 strangers coming into your house taking a nickel each every month promising they'd put it to good use and you have no other recourse but to give it to them... I dunno I'd start to get pretty pissed after a while.

Quote:
Police, Army, Courts: government, government, government.
I don't get it. Are you saying our only choice between an anarchist government or Communist government? Or are you falsely suggesting that protection of our property rights isn't libertarian?

Quote:
Here's the thing, what made us world power was war, innovation, science/technology and consumerism. We're still very good at the first, but like a constantly worn shoe the old proven luster just ain't cutting it like it used to. Innovation? Aside from Apple name me five other commercial innovations that are from this country in the last 12 years? We just had to cut our space program. Meantime South Korea is spearheading cyber-robotics, Germany as well, not to mention natural energies, etc. Where are we at? Congressmen in subcommittees of Space, Science and Technology talking about how The Big Bang Theory is "Straight from Satan". Consumerism? Alive and well but out of control in regards to goods not being made in this country.
During the early 1900's we were more powerful than almost every other nation out there. We just didn't leap from a third world country to a world power in a matter of a few years after a war. It happened gradually over time.

And why hasn't it been cutting it like it used to? Its because of anti-capitalist policies. You throw a monkey wrench into a machine you don't blame the machine you blame whoever threw in the monkey wrench.

Its the reason why I've been saying we haven't been innovating. Of course we're not innovating. Do you think we've actually been getting closer to a pure capitalist nation in the past 12 years? How many billions of dollars go to companies that crush any competition or future competition that would otherwise be more innovative? Expand government more and more and more and keep blaming the "free market". I always laugh when someone thinks its the free market's fault as if there aren't any taxes or intrusive laws.

Consumerism of course is alive. What else are people not going to do? Not consume? The difference is people are having little choice in what they consume when more of their property (their money) is being taken away to be able to choose. Choice is important and government takes away that choice every time.

Many nations are good at producing things but so what? Cuba makes great cigars. Colombia makes great coffee. Russia makes great vodka. Every nation is different but are they funneling all their resources to one industry while destroying other possible innovative industries from being formed? Like if you're not in specific select industries that the people deem to be more important in certain countries then you have no chance of making a really successful new industry in that nation. That is unless you're extremely wealthy enough line the pockets of corrupt government officials to allow it.

If there really was a market desire for a certain type of industry, the government wouldn't need to forcibly take peoples' money to ensure that it thrives. Which means one of two things - the product is either too expensive for its true market value or its simply undesirable. Either way, it's just one example of government inefficiency - ignoring basic price signals in favor of political interests.

Quote:
What we REALLY have to ask is where did this need for "socialist programs" come from?(which we haven't even really peaked at, that honor goes to the Nixon era). Is it really the obvious answer that a majority of Americans just gave up and decided that the welfare life totally is the way to go? Or maybe, somewhere between the can do attitude of the 1950's and now, we lost not just jobs, but jobs you could raise a family on, and now we have a growing list of jobs that one person can barely support themself with. What's that gonna look like in 10/20/30 years when ? We've had a growth of low-paying jobs in this recession, while mid to high paying have remained virtually unchanged. And no I didn't believe the guy who made a career making money from creating debt and foisting it on to other businesses and selling them off and made the bulk of his fortune off of investments in China was gonna make that any better.
Here's a pretty good indication where a lot of this socialism came from...

“The ideas embodied in the New Deal Legislation were a compilation of those which had come to maturity under Herbert Hoover’s aegis. We all of us owed much to Hoover” (Rexford Tugwell, 1946).

http://rayharvey.org/index.php/tag/rexford-tugwell/

If socialism wasn't alive before Hoover/FDR it certainly turned into a massive monster afterwards.

Quote:
It is not a matter of thinking outside the box, its actually a very simple idea: Addressing the problem and everyone (or the majority) agreeing that IS the problem. But everyone has a newschannel now that strokes their little heads and tells them "no, no, no the sky truly is purple and all those people who say it isn't are just crazy" and yeah, nothing changes and we have to do the "Band-aid covers bullethole" remedy.
So whatever the majority identifies as the problem that automatically means that's the problem? How do you know the majority will address the problem correctly? The majority in Russia felt that a 99% tax rate was acceptable. The majority in Germany felt that their leader was correct that the Aryan race was superior to all other races. The majority in Europe once felt that if you weren't Catholic you should go to hell. In 1490, the majority would have voted to support the proposition that the Earth is flat.

There is nothing more overrated throughout the course of human history than collective wisdom. Too many people believe that collectivist thinking is an absolute. As if they believe we are some collective enlightened utopia. Like how Xfrog says that Christopher Nolan is the best director of all time because his films have the highest ratings on the IMDB. Now if the majority were libertarian well then that's good because I believe in it not because if they were 'a majority'. The world has been suffering from the tyranny of the majority time after time and more than likely will continue to suffer.
 

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