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  #41  
Old 11-17-2012, 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
Thank, everyone. Spike, when you say you waited out all night for the Wii - Like what time did you get there and what time did you leave? How far back were you in line? This might be something I just drive by a few times during the night and see how the line is going.
We got there at about 10pm and the store opened at 8am. We were like 20th in line. This was Philadelphia, so obviously a big city.

I happened to walk by the local Best Buy tonight that is doing the midnight release and there were already some people camped out in chairs and blankets. After much deliberation I don't think I'm going to be able to stomach the outside wait.

I expect that by January it will be easy enough to get a hold of one, and perhaps if Nintendo is right then the stores will be continuously stocked throughout the pre-Christmas weeks and I can always check back. There's no need for me to rush and get one immediately.
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  #42  
Old 11-17-2012, 06:19 AM
Yeah, I'm gunning for Christmas day but there's also a birthday in late-January. I will probably hold off. I'm thinking the midnight sales may be just for people who want to play it like 10 hours earlier.
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  #43  
Old 11-18-2012, 01:45 AM
I got one. The last Deluxe the store had. Arrived at 9:30pm.
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  #44  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:33 AM
I didn't do the midnight thing, but this morning Wal-Mart had them and didn't sell out until 10ish. I didn't go to that either, though.

I think I have enough games to keep my occupied until I can find a Wii U without having to jump through hoops. Would love to have one before Christmas Break but if not, I'll survive.
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  #45  
Old 11-18-2012, 03:53 PM
Wii U Owners Bummed Out By Huge Firmware Update PART 1

BestBuy didn't have a midnight opening but we sold out of both within 5 min of opening our doors at 10am this morning we had a total of 30 units
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's a progress bar 1/8th full after 30 minutes—a four-hour process at this rate—for the Wii U's infamous firmware update, said to be 5 gigabytes (according to Geoff Keighley of GameTrailers TV, and repeated by numerous others). Sony, you are officially off the hook with the PS3's interminable, poorly timed and mandatory system updates.

It's not like Nintendo's just fixing typoes in the help file, either. This update lets you access online features, transfer data from a Wii, visit the Miiverse and use other online features. So, basically, you're bringing home an unassembled bicycle, and depending on your Internet connection speed, it could be between 1 and 4 hours before that battle station is fully operation. Expect this story to resurface again around Christmas morning.

When it does, expect it to bubble up where it did last night: Twitter, everyone's forum of first resort for complaining. We've collected some voices of frustration for your information and amusement, beginning with the person who supplied that picture, @LouisLamarche.

Got a Wii U this morning.Its been downloading an update for 30 min and... I guess ill be able to use it tomorrow — Louis Lamarche (@LouisLamarche) November 18, 2012.

1/2 hour later, Wii U system update is ~60% complete. Nintendo’s servers must be Commodore 64’s with 300 baud modems.— Scott Anderson (@room34) November 18, 2012

Wait what? The Wii U firmware update is 5GB? Will we still have 3GB of free space after it?— The Tower (@malek86) November 18, 2012

http://kotaku.com/5961577/bummed+out...irmware-update

User "Bluesky02'' wrote this in the comments area of the website above:

When people buy a new console, they are excited to try things out. Now if you have to wait for a very long update, it is going to disappoint many which is normal.
Forgive me Nintendo fans, The Wii U is already showing bad signs like:
- No DVD playback
- No Hard Drive, yes you can buy external USB Hard Drive. But for developers it is important to have a hard disk there. And very few people are going to buy an external USB Hard Drive.
- Weak CPU/GPU, I know Nintendo is not about powerful hardcore spec consoles but the fact is the specs are weak and Wii U is competing with 360/PS3
- Gimmicky Controller, some says it's innovation, great changes. Two screen won't be a problem. The Hud on your controller and The main game on your screen. But do you need a second screen for that? Okay let's the Mario demo was something new where you play your gameplay in a new way. But is it groudbreaking? The controller does have a potential, let's hope to see more from it.
- Bad Ports or Bad Hardware, well you just need to read the article here: http://tinyurl.com/cqfx3d8
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Last edited by Ruly2; 11-18-2012 at 04:40 PM..
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  #46  
Old 11-18-2012, 04:26 PM
How To Transfer Wii Data to a Wii U

To begin the process, you go to the Wii U's Wii application, which shuts off the new console's GamePad and basically turns Nintendo's 2012 console into its 2006 one. This is my Wii U as a Wii:


You need your Wii, your Wii U and an SD card with at least 512MB of free data (it can have other stuff on it). You'll want to have two Wii Remotes, one to drive each console, but you can do it with one. Both consoles will need to do a check with Nintendo's online servers.

This is what will transfer:

This is what won't:


Sadly, you also have to say goodbye to the Mii Parade, the procession of Miis pulled from other online systems. It was one of the coolest features on the Wii:


First, you put the SD card in the Wii U and run a transfer tool from the machine's Wii app. Then you put that card in the Wii and run the Wii's version of that app. (You download these apps from the Wii's online store, which is accessible from each machine—curiously the Wii U isn't going to the Wii U eShop which suggests that Nintendo will have to keep the Wii Shop live for Wii U owners who use the system in its Wii mode). The Wii starts moving its data to the SD card.

Then you put the card back in the Wii U and the animations from the second video play.
And then... you're done.


While you're transferring, the Wii tells you what it won't be bringing over. Nothing that used Wii Connect 24 makes it over. No Everybody Votes channel, no Nintendo Channel. The game Lost Winds wouldn't transfer either, for some reason. Saves move over. Downloaded games do. Miis do. Your purchase history does, so you can re-download things to the Wii U's Wii app.

The system all works smoothly, but it's bizarre to see how walled off this stuff is. The Wii experience in the Wii U is isolated from the rest of the system. The GamePad can't even drive it. That raises questions about whether virtual console content downloaded to the Wii will ever be accessible on the Wii U's main menus or whether it will always require the cumbersome extra step of loading the Wii app. Considering that the GamePad is deactivated while the Wii U is in Wii mode, it's no wonder that Nintendo has said that Virtual Console games can't play on the GamePad. That's too bad. Hopefully they can at least support the Wii mode on the GamePad in the future.

For now, though, the transfer seems to work well. And it's just so darn cute.

Video #1: "Wii to Wii U transfer"-part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SDDARCooJhE
Video # 2: "Wii to Wii U transfer"-part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Exb8KufjU6w

http://kotaku.com/5961543/how-to-tra...gress-bar-ever
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Last edited by Ruly2; 11-18-2012 at 04:38 PM..
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  #47  
Old 11-18-2012, 04:41 PM
Wii U’s Firmware ; Video: Wii U Initial Setup

Time of article: NOV 17, 2012 7:04 PM

A firmware update appears to have finally become available for the Wii U, a little later than Nintendo personnel had predicted. Pre-release Wii U systems are now able to at least begin downloading the update. I'm trying to download it right now and will let you all know how it goes and what features become available.

Without the firmware update, Wii U systems have been unable to go online, connect to Nintendo's Miiverse, or even play Wii games and transfer data from Wii games. That functionality should be included in this update. I'll keep you posted.

UPDATE: It's one hour later and the download's progress bar is up to the "g" in "Downloading data for update..." Potential Wii U owners might want to plan accordingly. The system can't be used during the firmware download.
http://kotaku.com/5961522/wii-us-fir...ting-right-now


Video, "Wii U Initial Setup" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TvDho4vsFc (10min 46sec)

Last edited by Ruly2; 11-18-2012 at 04:45 PM..
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  #48  
Old 11-18-2012, 05:13 PM
Found THIS on tumblr:

Sooo the 160GB usb harddrive that I planned to use for the Wii U won't be recognized. I already hate the system.

The thing should be able to recognize all usb devices.

siggghh

so now if I want to play I need to waste one of My terabyte hard drives for the time being in order to use it and sometime in the future transfer over everything to a new one and reformat the terabyte harddrive for PC usage….


http://anima-mia.tumblr.com/post/360...ned-to-use-for
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  #49  
Old 11-18-2012, 05:38 PM
Wii U eShop Retail and Download Title Prices (North America)

Here are all the games that areavailable on the WiiU via the eShop :

Retail titles
Assassin’s Creed 3 - $59.99
Darksiders 2 - $59.99
Epic Mickey 2 - $59.99
ESPN Sports Connection - $49.99
FIFA 13 - $59.99
Game Party Champions - $49.99
Just Dance 4 - $49.99
Madden NFL 13 - $59.99
New Super Mario Bros. U - $59.99
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor’s Edge - $59.99
Nintendo Land - $59.99
Rabbids Lands - $49.99
Scribblenauts Unlimited - $59.99
Sing Party - $49.99
Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed - $39.99
Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper - $59.99
Your Shape Fitness Evolved 2013 - $49.99
ZombiU - $59.99

Download titles
Chasing Aurora - $14.99
Little Inferno - $14.99
Mighty Switch Force! Hyper Drive Edition - $9.99
Nano Assault Neo - $9.99
Trine 2: Director’s Cut - $19.99

http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=190862
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  #50  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:14 PM
System Set-Up: The update

Nintendo constantly aims to improve the functionality of its systems and services in order to provide the easiest, most user-friendly experience possible. As a part of these efforts, we are making Wii U™ system updates available for download via the Internet.

Your Wii U system and software are not designed for use with any unauthorized device and/or any unauthorized software. Please note that the Nintendo warranties do not cover any defects to or defects caused by unauthorized devices, software, modifications and/or non-licensed accessories. Furthermore such use may cause performance issues and/or damage to your Wii U system and related services. Nintendo (as well as Nintendo licensees or distributors) is not responsible for any damage or loss caused by the use of such devices, software, modifications or non-licensed accessories.

IMPORTANT: After the Wii U system is updated, any existing or future unauthorized technical modification of the hardware or software of your Wii U system, or the use of an unauthorized device in connection with your system, may render the system permanently unplayable. Content deriving from the unauthorized modification of the hardware or software of your Wii U system may be removed. Failure to accept the update may render games unplayable.

Wii U system updates can be received automatically when connected to the internet. When the download is complete, you will receive a dialog on the Wii U Menu detailing the steps to install the update.

Version 2.0.0 U available via wireless internet connection includes the following improvements:

Added new Network features

Nintendo Network ID creation and linking feature
"Miiverse" *1
"Nintendo eShop" *1
"Internet Browser" *1
"Friends List" *1
"Wii U Chat" *1
"Notification List"
"Download Management"
"Wii System Transfer" *2
Software update feature
USB storage device feature


*1 In order to use those features, you will need to register Nintendo Network ID.

*2 You can use this feature in Wii Menu.

*3 Update feature is available only for the software which has update data.


http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/sys...tem_update.jsp

here is more info on the Storage capabilities of the Wii U: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/sys...al-usb-storage

Last edited by Ruly2; 11-18-2012 at 06:18 PM..
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  #51  
Old 11-18-2012, 08:05 PM
The new WII U ads have been running on local TV for a week or so.

Big on Mario and Nintendoland but weak on new capabilities ( add a block for your friends & play on the controller if someone wants to watch TV )

The new controller is awesome , they should focus more on that.
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  #52  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:00 PM
I picked up the 8g model today - didn't feel like searching for a deluxe model and figured I have a lot of memory laying around so there wasn't much difference aside from the color and needing to pick up Nintendo Land. It's going to be a long wait for Xmas day and now even longer due to the system update. I supposed I'll have to lose my homebrew mod on the wii if I need to download an app for that one. But I guess I'll only need that if I want to play those games on the U and have my Mii's right?
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  #53  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:49 PM
I have a feeling my girlfriend bought me a Wii U for Christmas...I'll be back on December 26th to give you all the news
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  #54  
Old 11-22-2012, 07:24 AM
Wait, timeout.

I also got the 8 GB model. Didn't receive it yet (ordered it online). The update is gonna take 5 GB from that? So I'm only gonna have 3 GB left over for gaming? Am I reading this correctly?
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  #55  
Old 11-22-2012, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
Wait, timeout.

I also got the 8 GB model. Didn't receive it yet (ordered it online). The update is gonna take 5 GB from that? So I'm only gonna have 3 GB left over for gaming? Am I reading this correctly?
Not sure myself, actually. While the update is 5gig some of that could be replacing existing stuff (or "activating") but i would imagine a good chunk of it could take up the internal hd.
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  #56  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:45 PM
Wii U picks up Amazon Instant Video, YouTube apps

The Wii U's complete TVii service* is set to launch in December, but some of the programs within it are already dropping onto the console. Netflix** hit on launch day (with a rocky, yet resolved start), and now YouTube and Amazon Instant Video are on the Wii U.

With the YouTube app, videos can stream up to 1080p on the television, while the video details stay on the Wii Pad. Browsing uses the Pad's on-screen keyboard. Amazon Instant uses the same browsing method and can stream video directly on the Wii Pad. Both apps are free to download directly from the Wii U menu.
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/22/wi...-youtube-apps/

*http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/16/wi...-coming-weeks/

**http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/19/re...n-password-en/
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  #57  
Old 11-23-2012, 09:22 AM
I feel like the Wii came out 3 or 4 years ago....I feel so fucking old.
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  #58  
Old 11-28-2012, 07:37 AM
I think it'll be interesting to see how well the Wii U does over the next five to six years. Many third-party companies have not really looked at how they would use the gamepad and have then decided to not port some of their popular titles to the Wii U (Far Cry 3, GTA V). With a rapid rate of technological innovations from companies like Apple and Google, one would expect shorter console life cycles which could be both good and bad.
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  #59  
Old 11-28-2012, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post
I think it'll be interesting to see how well the Wii U does over the next five to six years. Many third-party companies have not really looked at how they would use the gamepad and have then decided to not port some of their popular titles to the Wii U (Far Cry 3, GTA V). With a rapid rate of technological innovations from companies like Apple and Google, one would expect shorter console life cycles which could be both good and bad.
This is what i am wondering myself. There are already reports of half a dozen games not coming to the Wii U with possible titles like Battlefield 3 passing on it. I read that Boarderlands 2 won't be coming to the system either.
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  #60  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:23 PM
New wii U game pad new (sort-of)

Well, The Nintendo Rep. came in the store today and we chatted about the WII U. As some of us knew.. The Wii U can support up to two Gamepads. The only catch is is that there are no games that currently support two gamepads. Then I got the idea that Nintendo might bundle the gamepad with a compatable game in the near future. The Rep told me that an external harddrive is needed if you were do digitally download a full game from the 'eShop'. He also told me that any external harddrive that i power through an external power source (ie a mybook) will work. He then told me two pacific External HDDS that will work. They are both from Toshiba but, there is the ifo on one of the:

Toshiba
Canvio 2TB external USB 3.0 Hard Drive
Model: HDWC120XK3J1


The other external HDD was the 3TB..

back to the 'PAD'..To give u an exsample of the type of game im talking about. The only one that comes to mind is 'Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition'. based on that, What game do you think could be bundled with the Wii U GamePad? And what do you think it would cost?
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  #61  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:12 PM
Well did they not already state the the general cost of the new controllers around $130 or something? I think that's what it was or around that value. I can't see them cutting the price by much in a bundle though, especially if its a much waited for game like say if they actually had a Zelda title any where near completion.

The other thing that bothers me is that, this Nintendo rep, has stated straight out that you will NEED an external HD if you want to digitally download a game. To me that now means that whatever the HD is that you buy it is essentially now a value that might as well be included in the consoles actual price.

Like say if the system costs $250 but you also NEED an HD if you want to use the system fully and lets say you pick up a 1T drive for say $100. That is now a $350 Nintendo system.

I think this is definitely a clever but also dubious sales technique: Sell system for a lower point price but design it to not work to its full capacity so ppl have to actually spend more. The only way they are getting away with it imo is cause they are not making you give THEM more money to make it work (I'm looking at you N64 Expansion pack and Wii Motion+) but in the end are forcing you to spend more to use they product to the full effect.
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  #62  
Old 11-28-2012, 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vesaker View Post
Well did they not already state the the general cost of the new controllers around $130 or something? I think that's what it was or around that value. I can't see them cutting the price by much in a bundle though, especially if its a much waited for game like say if they actually had a Zelda title any where near completion.

The other thing that bothers me is that, this Nintendo rep, has stated straight out that you will NEED an external HD if you want to digitally download a game. To me that now means that whatever the HD is that you buy it is essentially now a value that might as well be included in the consoles actual price.

Like say if the system costs $250 but you also NEED an HD if you want to use the system fully and lets say you pick up a 1T drive for say $100. That is now a $350 Nintendo system.

I think this is definitely a clever but also dubious sales technique: Sell system for a lower point price but design it to not work to its full capacity so ppl have to actually spend more. The only way they are getting away with it imo is cause they are not making you give THEM more money to make it work (I'm looking at you N64 Expansion pack and Wii Motion+) but in the end are forcing you to spend more to use they product to the full effect.
In my eyes, it's just another cheap ploy by Nintendo. It's a similar argument they made about not including a CD or DVD drive because they're sure you have enough of those at home, so now they're assuming we have large external hard drives laying around that we can plug up to our $250 game console.
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  #63  
Old 11-29-2012, 01:59 AM
For anyone who cares, updating the Wii won't cause you to lose homebrew modifications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig Saw 123 View Post
In my eyes, it's just another cheap ploy by Nintendo. It's a similar argument they made about not including a CD or DVD drive because they're sure you have enough of those at home, so now they're assuming we have large external hard drives laying around that we can plug up to our $250 game console.
I don't know man, cheap for who except the consumer? Adding the license to play movies or adding reliable flash memory would only drive up the cost. The average person who buys a Wii isn't going to be doing it to play games and I don't know if downloading games is a standard, aside from from virtual console titles, which take up nothing.

I'd also not rule out that Sony and Microsoft's reasons for going the media route is due more to self-interest than giving consumers everything they want. One is a major supplier of video discs and I can't imagine Microsoft wasn't trying to compete with the AppleTV/iTunes Store.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a do-all device but really optical drives are the one thing I prefer to keep separate. I don't need adding to the death of my gaming console because I need to watch all the seasons of Kids in the Hall one weekend. It's not like a computer where you can get a cheap replacement drive. There's repairmen and shit involved with that kind of thing.

To me, a bigger peeve about the system would be lack of playing format types and so forth. I've been researching, leading up to Xmas day and, unless miiTV takes off in a big way (ability to stream from home network, mainly), or a homebrew-type modification comes along, I'm not going to be using this sucker for media as much as I'd hoped. Although, I will say that the Netflix interface looks awesome and even without the interface, just being able to playback in 1080p is enough to make me not need to upgrade to the latest AppleTV. I can play 1080p Netflix on my BR player, but the interface is horrible.

I just with the Wii U had an optical output - my TV can't do pass-thru at full HD from HDMI and my receiver is from a previous generation. So, with optical running from the TV to the receiver, if I playback something on the ATV, at 720p, it will send dolby digital signal through the optical, but if it's from the BR player, at 1080p, it won't -- I have to use the players own output. I need to learn myself more on all of this in case I'm missing something, but it looks like with the Wii U and Netflix, I'll be sacrificing audio quality for video quality, at least until I get a receiver with HDMI inputs.
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  #64  
Old 11-29-2012, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
I don't know man, cheap for who except the consumer? Adding the license to play movies or adding reliable flash memory would only drive up the cost. The average person who buys a Wii isn't going to be doing it to play games and I don't know if downloading games is a standard, aside from from virtual console titles, which take up nothing.
Sony and Microsoft already offer pretty much every major or popular title that comes out as a digital download from their respective networks and these are available on release day. Nintendo is running to try and catch up to this standard. In those terms you will need a big external HD as now that Nintendo is putting out essentially the same games as the other 2 you're looking at upwards of 2-8gig per game.

Atm you're right that the only thing they really have is the Virtual Console which wouldn't be a problem. But with tech heading more and more away from the need to have hard copies this will become a big problem if doing things like Nintendo are doing (having a cheaper system but requiring you to by extra peripherals) becomes common place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
I'd also not rule out that Sony and Microsoft's reasons for going the media route is due more to self-interest than giving consumers everything they want. One is a major supplier of video discs and I can't imagine Microsoft wasn't trying to compete with the AppleTV/iTunes Store.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a do-all device but really optical drives are the one thing I prefer to keep separate. I don't need adding to the death of my gaming console because I need to watch all the seasons of Kids in the Hall one weekend. It's not like a computer where you can get a cheap replacement drive. There's repairmen and shit involved with that kind of thing.
Well the reasoning as to why Sony of Microsoft packed extra stuff into their consoles is a moot point. The fact is that they did and it is now seen as the standard so for Nintendo to not bring those features (in their second system within the other 2's single system generation no less) makes it seem like a crappier product. Now i'm with you in that that line of thinking isn't good and that any intelligent person would do their own research and get what ever fits their needs but well know that lvl of intelligence isn't considered average. There are too many ppl out there that will take it a face value and in turn Nintendo could lose money because of that. If anything its the fact that the system is as cheap as it is that will keep that margin of loss (if any) to a minimum.

I also don't really care for the "All in one" type machine for the same reasons you give. I don't want the main thing i uses it for to kill it and then keep me from using the other 4 things i could have used it for. At the end of the day though its about practicality, sure you could have a different device for everything the PS3 or Xbox 360 does but if you don't have adequate outlets to plug them into or can't get them to communicate together then its not that good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
To me, a bigger peeve about the system would be lack of playing format types and so forth. I've been researching, leading up to Xmas day and, unless miiTV takes off in a big way (ability to stream from home network, mainly), or a homebrew-type modification comes along, I'm not going to be using this sucker for media as much as I'd hoped. Although, I will say that the Netflix interface looks awesome and even without the interface, just being able to playback in 1080p is enough to make me not need to upgrade to the latest AppleTV. I can play 1080p Netflix on my BR player, but the interface is horrible.

I just with the Wii U had an optical output - my TV can't do pass-thru at full HD from HDMI and my receiver is from a previous generation. So, with optical running from the TV to the receiver, if I playback something on the ATV, at 720p, it will send dolby digital signal through the optical, but if it's from the BR player, at 1080p, it won't -- I have to use the players own output. I need to learn myself more on all of this in case I'm missing something, but it looks like with the Wii U and Netflix, I'll be sacrificing audio quality for video quality, at least until I get a receiver with HDMI inputs.
i think for HDMI you have to do something in the settings to get it to move the sound along with the video in some cases. Myself i have my PC HDMI'd into my TV but i use my surround sound PC speakers to play the sound instead of the TV's weak speakers. It was like that when i first set it up but if i wanted the TV to out put the sound i'd have to go in and set it up that way. I prefer the PC surround sound so i've never looked into how to do it personally.
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  #65  
Old 11-29-2012, 09:41 PM
Reluctantly got the stupid thing. And I love it.
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  #66  
Old 11-30-2012, 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vesaker View Post
Sony and Microsoft already offer pretty much every major or popular title that comes out as a digital download from their respective networks and these are available on release day. Nintendo is running to try and catch up to this standard. In those terms you will need a big external HD as now that Nintendo is putting out essentially the same games as the other 2 you're looking at upwards of 2-8gig per game.
I think it's like with PS3, though, the first model was like 40 gigs or something and it's starting price was pretty insane. That was the one thing that kept me, someone who isn't as avid a gamer as maybe even the norm, from buying one. Nintendo would have lost more sales, IMO, by increasing the price. The price is probably the main thing keeping people who want one from getting one, so I see adding in more things as just making it more likely that people won't get one. I'd figure by next Christmas, they'll have models with more memory at a lower price.

It does kind of feel like they are holding back but I think it's in the consumer's best interest. For now, I think the people who are going to need that extra memory will probably be able to make due, whereas the people who are excited to try the "new way of playing" are more interested in going at it and might not miss the extra memory.

Quote:
Atm you're right that the only thing they really have is the Virtual Console which wouldn't be a problem. But with tech heading more and more away from the need to have hard copies this will become a big problem if doing things like Nintendo are doing (having a cheaper system but requiring you to by extra peripherals) becomes common place.
I was thinking just more in terms of the people who were excited to get the system. For example, I didn't even know about the eStore or whatever it is, until after buying the console. After that, I saw the benefit of the memory but also was comfortable knowing how easy memory is to come by. And I'm pretty confident that I'm in an upper tier of consumers when it comes to researching and learning about products before buying. I think, like with the Wii, most early adopters are going to be most interested in the gamepad and higher graphics. I guess what I'm saying is that, to me, the memory thing fills a sort of secondary need. In terms of the deluxe package, the stand and dock are what interest me (along with including a game) -- the memory thing doesn't even register because I could probably find 24 gigs of memory in my couch cushions.

As an aside - I might actually be trading up when I come across a deluxe version solely for the dock, stand and game. Those 3 pieces add up pretty quick and I'm not seeing any non-3rd party stands/docks that come in white - granted I haven't dug in to find one, but it's pretty weird that they aren't readily available. I had actually settled on the white version being preferable (color-wise) due to matching my motion controllers and the lack of finger prints.

Quote:
Well the reasoning as to why Sony of Microsoft packed extra stuff into their consoles is a moot point. The fact is that they did and it is now seen as the standard so for Nintendo to not bring those features (in their second system within the other 2's single system generation no less) makes it seem like a crappier product. Now i'm with you in that that line of thinking isn't good and that any intelligent person would do their own research and get what ever fits their needs but well know that lvl of intelligence isn't considered average. There are too many ppl out there that will take it a face value and in turn Nintendo could lose money because of that. If anything its the fact that the system is as cheap as it is that will keep that margin of loss (if any) to a minimum.
But I think the appeal with Nintendo's Wii and Wii U was that it wasn't the standard. When Sony and MS come out with their next system and it includes motion controls and a gamepad as standard, then I think the comparisons will be easier to make. Going back to a discussion we'd had way back, I still think Nintendo is aiming toward a wider array of gamer demographics.

Quote:
I also don't really care for the "All in one" type machine for the same reasons you give. I don't want the main thing i uses it for to kill it and then keep me from using the other 4 things i could have used it for. At the end of the day though its about practicality, sure you could have a different device for everything the PS3 or Xbox 360 does but if you don't have adequate outlets to plug them into or can't get them to communicate together then its not that good.
Yeah, I'd like there to be that all-in-one thing, but it's just not feasible, at least until we get rid of physical media. I don't see that happening this decade. We'll probably have "smart houses" before we see a single device that does everything.

Quote:
i think for HDMI you have to do something in the settings to get it to move the sound along with the video in some cases. Myself i have my PC HDMI'd into my TV but i use my surround sound PC speakers to play the sound instead of the TV's weak speakers. It was like that when i first set it up but if i wanted the TV to out put the sound i'd have to go in and set it up that way. I prefer the PC surround sound so i've never looked into how to do it personally.
In my TV manual (samsung LN650, b-class) it says you can't do the audio thru. I think it has to do with the HDMi profile being one of the earlier ones (1.2?) and not having the bandwidth for full HD and digital audio. Being honest with myself, I know it's more of an issue with my TV being a little bit old (2009 model) and my receiver being older (2002, but I hate upgrading... last year of Technics receivers and I'd spent since 1990 building that mid-line system around a 1989 CD player...) and it's not Nintendo's thing. But I guess with optical audio or coax audio out, to me, that's like the missing DVD player is to you. Just one of those things where it's like, "WHHHHYYYYY NOT!?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
Reluctantly got the stupid thing. And I love it.
Damnit -- since I have the console, but can't use it until Xmas, comments like this make me feel like a character from a teen sex comedy who's eager to lose their virginity. I mean, I have the console, am hearing everyone saying how awesome it is, but damnit I just can't use it. To add to it, I'm watching videos online of people using the Wii U.



Wait, actually...

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  #67  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
I think it's like with PS3, though, the first model was like 40 gigs or something and it's starting price was pretty insane. That was the one thing that kept me, someone who isn't as avid a gamer as maybe even the norm, from buying one. Nintendo would have lost more sales, IMO, by increasing the price. The price is probably the main thing keeping people who want one from getting one, so I see adding in more things as just making it more likely that people won't get one. I'd figure by next Christmas, they'll have models with more memory at a lower price.
For sure. I personally didn't get a PS3 until they brought out the first slim models which had bigger HD's and had like $200 knocked off the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
It does kind of feel like they are holding back but I think it's in the consumer's best interest. For now, I think the people who are going to need that extra memory will probably be able to make due, whereas the people who are excited to try the "new way of playing" are more interested in going at it and might not miss the extra memory.

I was thinking just more in terms of the people who were excited to get the system. For example, I didn't even know about the eStore or whatever it is, until after buying the console. After that, I saw the benefit of the memory but also was comfortable knowing how easy memory is to come by. And I'm pretty confident that I'm in an upper tier of consumers when it comes to researching and learning about products before buying. I think, like with the Wii, most early adopters are going to be most interested in the gamepad and higher graphics. I guess what I'm saying is that, to me, the memory thing fills a sort of secondary need. In terms of the deluxe package, the stand and dock are what interest me (along with including a game) -- the memory thing doesn't even register because I could probably find 24 gigs of memory in my couch cushions.
Well for the deluxe it will be much less of a problem but for the standard 8gig model, if for any reason they do not already have a external HD they are not already using it will probably cause problems. It just seems like its something that could have been avoided but they didn't bother, i dunno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
But I think the appeal with Nintendo's Wii and Wii U was that it wasn't the standard. When Sony and MS come out with their next system and it includes motion controls and a gamepad as standard, then I think the comparisons will be easier to make. Going back to a discussion we'd had way back, I still think Nintendo is aiming toward a wider array of gamer demographics.
Yeah that was their stated mission since the Wii was originally announced. The success of the DS among non gamers pushed them in this direction. And i'm fine with them trying to appeal to a wider audience but since the Wii its been viewed that they are doing that at the expense of not providing to the gamer demograph which are the ppl that made them the company they are today.

The biggest example of this is what they have done with the Zelda release schedule. The Wii comes out and we essentially get a port of a Game Cube game (Twilight Princess) and then have to wait until the end of the Wii's life cycle to get an actual Wii Zelda game (Skyward Sword). Now if there are any titles that really move Nintendo's consoles its Mario and Zelda. The Wii had at least the GC port to boost sales this the WiiU wont. There have been ppl speculating that this will hurt Nintendo's early sales as ppl wait for the next Zelda to be released.

It just seems strange on their part unless you look at it as another example of them leaving the "gamer" behind to cater to the non gamer crowed. Can't they do both?
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  #68  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:30 PM
^^Yeah I know you mean. They kind of remind me of Apple in the sense that they seem kind of persnickety on what they allow their newest hardware to do (appleTV can't play many formats, new iMacs have no optical drive at all…) Unlike Apple though, I think Nintendo eventually settles the dust and I'd imagine within the next few years they'll add more memory and let the console do more of what it could be capable of. Of course by then, the hacking community will have it sorted out for the eager users. I tend to think sometimes companies sort of alienate a lot of potential costumers by trying to be the first to do something. It's cool in some ways but I can see how it's sort of annoying as an almost elitist-type of behavior. The statement from the president about the hard drives came off kind of aloof, like "What don't you have hard drive space."

I think my main problem with the hard drive deal is that they are saying USB powered drives won't work and I really don't want to take up another 110 volt slot. The Wii U is touted as being energy efficient, but that gets thrown out the window when you have to plug in an extra drive and have it spinning. I was really looking forward to putting on a Western Digital Flex drive and just having it sit there quietly, not draining wattage without the machine running.

Another thing, Ruly said that the Nintendo rep recommends these 3TB drives and my understanding is that Nintendo is only guaranteeing support up to 2TB. Just something to be aware of. I'm sure the recommended drives work, but I wouldn't trust every drive. Personally I'm hoping for some cheap SD memory around the holidays -- apparently you can use an SD card in a slot reader plugged into the USB, then use that to run games off of. Someone has a demo up on YouTube -- but then as I'm typing this I realize that would be USB powered. Damnit. I'm opening this thing up the week before Xmas, setting it up, figuring out everything I need. I'm just worried it'll be like Pandora's Box and I won't put it down. My kid will wake up for school and I'll have called in to work and will be playing games. That'd be more awkward than him walking in on sex.

And speaking of the wait...

Okay, was in Toys R' Us looking for Imaginext Wonder Woman and Harley Quinn since they sold out at Fisher-Price.com within 2 days!! I check the site on a regular basis because my kid collects them (okay, I fiend for the DC line) and went 2 days and bam - they're gone.

Anyway, they had one lone deluxe system at the costumer service desk and long story short (too late) I went ahead and grabbed that one. So now I'm sitting on 2 units, one I'll be returning soon. But still just seems kind of funny to have 2 of them, and not playing either one.

On a similar note, does this picture attached below piss anyone else off, or is it just me?
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  #69  
Old 11-30-2012, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postmaster General View Post
I think my main problem with the hard drive deal is that they are saying USB powered drives won't work and I really don't want to take up another 110 volt slot. The Wii U is touted as being energy efficient, but that gets thrown out the window when you have to plug in an extra drive and have it spinning. I was really looking forward to putting on a Western Digital Flex drive and just having it sit there quietly, not draining wattage without the machine running.
Yeah i thought that was strange as well, that you can't use SSD (Solid State Drives) and have to use a full spinning HD which i thought were on the way out these days but i guess not. I'd like to think its a problem with the tech not working right with the SSD's but i'd bet its more devious then that for some reason.
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  #70  
Old 12-19-2012, 10:04 AM
press release: Nintendo TVii available on Wii U in North America on Dec. 20

video: http://www.viddler.com/v/2eb9a18

Nintendo Makes TV Smart and Social – Nintendo TVii Launches Dec. 20

New Wii U Service Gives Every Member of the Family His or Her Own Personalized, Easy-to-Use Second-Screen Viewing Experience


The company that changed how we play is about to change how we watch. On Dec. 20, Nintendo will introduce Nintendo TVii, a free, integrated service for the recently launched Wii U console that combines what you watch and how you watch into one seamless, second-screen experience on the revolutionary new Wii U GamePad controller.

The rapid increase in both the quality and availability of video entertainment content – hundreds of satellite and cable channels, a seemingly endless amount of video-on-demand options – has made finding something to watch a complex and occasionally frustrating process. The solution to this problem is coming from perhaps an unexpected place: a video game console.

"After Dec. 20, you'll never look at your TV the same way again," said Nintendo of America President and COO Reggie Fils-Aime. "Wii U owners have already experienced the transformative effect that the GamePad has on game play and social interaction. Nintendo TVii shows how the integrated second screen of the GamePad can also transform and enhance the TV viewing experience. Welcome to the new world of TVii."

Nintendo TVii maximizes Wii U owners' current cable, satellite and video-on-demand services by pulling all of their available content sources – such as a Comcast cable package or Hulu Plus subscription – into one place. This empowers Wii U owners to focus on what they want to watch and not how they want to watch. And once users find the show, sporting event or movie they want, they press an icon and Nintendo TVii does the rest.

In addition to greatly simplifying finding and watching video content, Nintendo TVii also includes a series of social features that enable Wii U owners to share experiences and exciting moments with friends as they are happening on live TV. People can engage with others by commenting and sharing on Miiverse, Facebook and Twitter. Or they can comment, post or tweet about an incredible touchdown, a remarkable performance or a shocking plot twist, all using the personal screen of the Wii U GamePad.

Nintendo TVii requires no additional equipment and can be enjoyed with very little setup, demonstrating what's possible when the second screen is truly integrated with the TV. Wii U owners can also discover more information about what they're watching by easily accessing information on the GamePad via an Internet connection, including cast details, movie reviews from Rotten Tomatoes and sports data such as live stats and scores.

Nintendo TVii launches in the United States and Canada on Dec. 20. At launch, the service will support cable and satellite providers in both regions, as well as direct integration with Amazon Instant Video and Hulu Plus subscriptions in the United States. Further integration with Netflix subscriptions and TiVo are expected in early 2013 in the United States. Wii U owners with a Netflix subscription can still access the Netflix application from the Wii U system's main menu and enjoy their favorite content accordingly.

All elements of the Nintendo TVii service are included in the purchase price of the Wii U system. Users will define which services they currently subscribe to – including the channel lineup in their cable package and video-on-demand service subscriptions – as part of the setup process.

Nintendo TVii observes the Wii U system parental controls, and additional options specific to the Nintendo TVii features can be chosen in the Nintendo TVii settings. Every member of the family can create a different viewing profile. For more information about this and other features, visit http://www.nintendo.com/wiiu.

About Nintendo
The worldwide pioneer in the creation of interactive entertainment, Nintendo Co., Ltd., of Kyoto, Japan, manufactures and markets hardware and software for its Wii U™ and Wii™ home consoles, and Nintendo 3DS™ and Nintendo DS™ families of portable systems. Since 1983, when it launched the Nintendo Entertainment System™, Nintendo has sold more than 4 billion video games and more than 637 million hardware units globally, including the current-generation Wii U, Nintendo 3DS and Nintendo 3DS XL, as well as the Game Boy™, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS, Nintendo DSi™ and Nintendo DSi XL™, Super NES™, Nintendo 64™, Nintendo GameCube™ and Wii systems. It has also created industry icons that have become well-known, household names such as Mario™, Donkey Kong™, Metroid™, Zelda™ and Pokémon™. A wholly owned subsidiary, Nintendo of America Inc., based in Redmond, Wash., serves as headquarters for Nintendo's operations in the Western Hemisphere. For more information about Nintendo, please visit the company's website at http://www.nintendo.com.


http://www.joystiq.com/2012/12/19/ni...ailable-dec-20
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/19/n...i-december-20/
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Last edited by Ruly2; 12-19-2012 at 10:08 AM..
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  #71  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:11 PM
Is this a web scraper, like Boxee, or does it interact with your equipment?
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  #72  
Old 01-18-2013, 05:07 PM
Article: Nintendo’s Wii U problems turn into a crisis

In just a week, the problems Nintendo’s (NTDOY) new home console is facing have cascaded into something sinister. The traditional post-New Year slump hit Nintendo’s home market in the week ending January 12 and exposed cruelly how weak the consumer interest in Wii U truly is. According to Famitsu, Wii U sales slumped from a pace of 70,000 per week to just 21,000. The ancient PlayStation 3 sold the exact same number of units, which is nothing short of a debacle for Nintendo. The hot portable console 3DS saw its sales slow down from 305,000 units to 106,000 units. This means that Nintendo’s portable machine is now outselling the brand new home console by a 5-to-1 margin in Japan.

No matter how weak the Wii U sales are now, they are likely to get worse. The launch dates of key games seem to be slipping from March quarter to June quarter, including the important Pikmin, Wario and Wii Fit franchises. The Wii U now must depend on Rayman and Lego City in coming months.

This is a scary prospect, because it now seems that Sony (SNE) is planning to unveil the PlayStation 4 in May and Microsoft (MSFT) is expected to announce the Xbox 720 in June. Nintendo rushed its console out in late 2012 to get a running start before the big guns of the home console industry grab the consumer interest with their new machines. That gambit may now be about to backfire in a spectacular manner. As demand for Wii U is already fizzling in Japan and key games slip from the first quarter of 2013, Wii U faces a very hard January-March period. Sony and Microsoft are then inevitably going to start leaking information about their new consoles in April-May time frame in the run-up to their big unveilings in the second half of the spring quarter.

The clock is ticking for Wii U. If consumers start smelling the scent of the grave emanating from the console just when Sony and Microsoft roll out their new gear, Wii U could face a sudden rejection in the market place by early summer. Nintendo needs some big new titles to revive its home machine very soon.

http://bgr.com/2013/01/18/nintendo-w...crisis-295918/
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  #73  
Old 01-18-2013, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruly2 View Post
In just a week, the problems Nintendo’s (NTDOY) new home console is facing have cascaded into something sinister. The traditional post-New Year slump hit Nintendo’s home market in the week ending January 12 and exposed cruelly how weak the consumer interest in Wii U truly is. According to Famitsu, Wii U sales slumped from a pace of 70,000 per week to just 21,000. The ancient PlayStation 3 sold the exact same number of units, which is nothing short of a debacle for Nintendo. The hot portable console 3DS saw its sales slow down from 305,000 units to 106,000 units. This means that Nintendo’s portable machine is now outselling the brand new home console by a 5-to-1 margin in Japan.

No matter how weak the Wii U sales are now, they are likely to get worse. The launch dates of key games seem to be slipping from March quarter to June quarter, including the important Pikmin, Wario and Wii Fit franchises. The Wii U now must depend on Rayman and Lego City in coming months.

This is a scary prospect, because it now seems that Sony (SNE) is planning to unveil the PlayStation 4 in May and Microsoft (MSFT) is expected to announce the Xbox 720 in June. Nintendo rushed its console out in late 2012 to get a running start before the big guns of the home console industry grab the consumer interest with their new machines. That gambit may now be about to backfire in a spectacular manner. As demand for Wii U is already fizzling in Japan and key games slip from the first quarter of 2013, Wii U faces a very hard January-March period. Sony and Microsoft are then inevitably going to start leaking information about their new consoles in April-May time frame in the run-up to their big unveilings in the second half of the spring quarter.

The clock is ticking for Wii U. If consumers start smelling the scent of the grave emanating from the console just when Sony and Microsoft roll out their new gear, Wii U could face a sudden rejection in the market place by early summer. Nintendo needs some big new titles to revive its home machine very soon.

http://bgr.com/2013/01/18/nintendo-w...crisis-295918/
Ouch, yet not surprising.
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  #74  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:38 PM
Considering how many of their good games were already released on previous systems, I'm not surprised.

I mean, the best game so far is probably New Super Mario Bros, but we've seen so many incarnations of it already that it didn't really feel necessary.

I love it, though. Love Mario Bros and am playing through Arkham City again, which is obviously phenomenal. I really like the Game Pad design, too.

Sales will pick up when big games come out.
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  #75  
Old 01-23-2013, 03:47 PM
Quote:
Nintendo apologizes for lack of Wii U software

January 23, 2013 9:30AM PST
By Eddie Makuch, News Editor

President Satoru Iwata says desire to meet quality standards has led to delays, promises more new games beginning in March.

Nintendo president Satoru Iwata apologized today for a drought of new Wii U releases in the first few months of the system's availability. He explained that Nintendo understands the need for new titles surrounding the Wii U launch, but also acknowledged that achieving quality is of the utmost importance.

"Nintendo takes seriously its responsibility offer a steady stream of new titles in the very early days of a new platform to establish a good lineup of software," Iwata said during a Nintendo Direct briefing this morning. "On the other hand, we also firmly believe we have to offer quality experiences when we release new titles. Based on our software development schedules at the end of last year, we concluded we should spend a little more time to satisfy our Nintendo standard of quality.

"I apologize to those supporting Wii U about the lack of new titles from Nintendo in January and February. But please understand we will have new titles to offer from March onward. We are planning a steady stream of games from spring to summer."

In recent weeks, Nintendo has bumped a number of "launch window" titles further into the horizon, including The Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, Wii Fit U, and Game & Wario.

Elsewhere in the Nintendo Direct presentation, Iwata revealed a bevy of new first-party games, including a brand-new Wii U Legend of Zelda game and a Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker high-definition remake. Other first-party Wii U titles revealed during the presentation included new Yoshi, Mario, and Mario Kart offerings.
Source

So, first they had to publicly apologize for dropping the price of the 3DS months into its release cause ppl weren't buying them. Now they are publicly apologizing for not having enough games out for the WiiU. Makes me wonder what they are going to have to apologize for next.

And really? An HD re-release of Windwaker? Who the fuck cares? They really have shot themselves in the foot with the way they've gone about this whole WiiU thing.
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  #76  
Old 01-23-2013, 03:58 PM
Saw this as well.....

Quote:
Wii U Virtual Console launches this spring

January 23, 2013 6:21AM PST
By Eddie Makuch, News Editor

Nintendo reveals new virtual marketplace for high-definition system; NES and SNES games to be available at launch, with GBA titles coming later.

Today during a Nintendo Direct presentation, president Satoru Iwata announced that the Wii U will introduce a Virtual Console this spring. At launch, players will be able to download Nintendo Entertainment System and Super Nintendo Entertainment System games, though Game Boy Advance titles will be added at a later date.

In addition, Nintendo said there will be "special pricing" options for those who already own Wii versions of Virtual Console titles. This is $1 for NES games and $1.50 for SNES games.

Wii U Virtual Console titles will allow players to save game progress. Additionally, the games can be played on the Wii U GamePad and will feature support for Miiverse.

Lastly, in celebration of the Famicom's 30th anniversary, Nintendo is making one NES or SNES game available each month now through July for 30 cents. Each title will be available at the discounted rate for 30 days, and the first title--Balloon Fight--is now available in the Nintendo eShop for Wii U.

Other titles part of the promotion include F-Zero (February), Punch Out! Featuring Mr. Dream (March), Kirby's Adventure (April), Super Metroid (May), Yoshi (June), and Donkey Kong (July).
Source

Soooooo let me get this straight. The WiiU, which is the newer system, will only be able to play NES and SNES (and later GBA) games? The Wii, however, can play all most their past systems and Sega's as well. Not only that but you can't just get the WiiU version of these games with out giving them MORE money? All so you can play a smaller selection of games on the game pad adn the ability to save your progress (cause thats totally what Mario 1 has been missing)...... are you fucking kidding me?

Sure they could be adding the other systems later but there is no reason to wait aside from bilking you for some more money down the road.
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  #77  
Old 01-23-2013, 06:23 PM
I honestly don't know what's happened to Nintendo. With the Wii launch we had plenty of fun games that were released around launch month and continuously onward. I would be pissed if I purchased a Wii U in November, beat the games I bought, and was then told newer titles will be released around March at the earliest. With the lack of third-party support, I could easily see Wii U becoming like Nintendo's Gamecube.
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  #78  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:13 PM
Nintendo is really screwing up.

I'm such a fan of their main franchises that I don't really care. I have the Wii U, am enjoying it, and can't wait for Metroid, Mario, Zelda, Star Fox... whatever.

But I don't see a single reason why a casual gamer would've picked this up. Or a teenager who isn't as in love with the classic franchises as I am. It really is a mess.
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  #79  
Old 01-24-2013, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin View Post
But I don't see a single reason why a casual gamer would've picked this up. Or a teenager who isn't as in love with the classic franchises as I am. It really is a mess.
Exactly. This isn't the DS where anyone and everyone wants one cause its a fun portable. and has a big library of things like brain teaser games and other "unconventional" game times. The only reason i've bought any Nintendo since the N64 has been for 2 reasons, Zelda and Metroid.

Mario can go Fuck himself. Star Fox is cool, except that GC one where he's not in his ship, that one sucked.
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  #80  
Old 01-28-2013, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Nintendo Network 'emergency maintenance' through tomorrow

January 28, 2013 5:39AM PST
By Eddie Makuch, News Editor

Affected services include Pokemon DS games, matchmaking for Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper, and access to virtual marketplaces.

The Nintendo Network will undergo "emergency maintenance" beginning today at noon Pacific, resulting in intermittent availability for a range of games and services, Nintendo has announced.

The first maintenance period will begin today at 12:00 p.m. and last through 5:00 p.m. Affected services include the Wii U eShop, the Nintendo 3DS eShop, the Wii shopping channel, and the Nintendo DSi shop.

The next portion of the emergency maintenance begins at 5:00 p.m. today when Wii U matchmaking, ranking, and other online-enabled features for Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper will be subject to intermittent availability. This maintenance is expected to take one hour, ending at 6:00 p.m.

Lastly, network services for Nintendo DS titles Pokemon Black and White and Pokemon Black and White 2 will be affected beginning this evening at 11:00 p.m. through Tuesday, January 29 at 5:00 p.m.

Nintendo did not provide any detail on why the maintenance is necessary. A company representative was not immediately available to comment.
Source

Wow, Nintendo just can't catch a break this month. It will be interesting to see what/how much info Nintendo provides in the coming days as to why this is going down.
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