#121  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:59 AM
Nice movie with new theme. it could be big hit.
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  #122  
Old 02-03-2013, 11:56 AM
WOW, I am in awe right now having just watched The Master. I need to let this digest a couple of days, I need to re-watch TWBB and Boogie Nights to make sure but as I sit here, this is my favorite PTA. Which probably makes it my favorite movie of the past 15 years.

I was simultaneously compelled to watch and intensely disturbed by Phoenix as Freddie. What an amazing performance. In the trailer I got the impression that Phoenix was channeling Nicholson as RP McMurphy a little bit. Somewhat similar characters, psych test/interviews, and similarly flawed/outcast types. And after watching the film, I definitely think he did (not a bad role/actor to go to for this considering RP is one of the greatest characters in film history, IMO). But while Cuckoo's Nest and McMurphy were very dark, they were at times lighthearted and comedic. They added a slight bit of levity, allowed you up for air a couple times. The Master and Phoenix's Freddie never went there, he remained in a very dark and desolate place. Right at this moment I probably prefer McMurphy over Freddie. Freddie may be too much. But I may change my mind on that as well. I really liked this character.

Again, I need to rest on this a few days. I need to revisit my other two favorite PTA's. I need to watch this again too. But this much I know for sure right now, the fact it wasn't nominated for best film, screenplay, and director is beyond a slight, it is an outright travesty. If Phoenix doesn't win best actor the entire awards system is a complete sham. Will return to add more after a couple days.
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  #123  
Old 02-03-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dmbman32 View Post
Had the story gone in a direction like that, you would actually have some kind of arc and/or growth of everyone. At the end of the day, the movie starts and ends with Freddie and Dodd not changing or growing at all. Freddie may have "tried" with some of the tests The Cause put him through, but because he was so whacked out, we (as the viewer) couldn't really tell if anything was getting through to him.
Who says a character has to "change" to be a great character? Who says we have to witness someone experience "growth" to make a good movie? Whats wrong with just watching one of the most compellingly sad and loathsome character's in quite some time being put to screen for two hours? How about just enjoying him as a great character and not expecting him to grow or change?

Who made these "rules" about movies?

Tragic, dark, sympathetic, and appalling. Freddie made me feel all of these and more in a two hour period. I can't say any character has done this to me with such tremendous impact in quite some time. To me, whether he changed or not, whether there was a resolution or not, whether the movie "gets anywhere" or not makes no difference.
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  #124  
Old 02-03-2013, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeMovie View Post
The more I think about it, the more I feel The Master may be my favorite PTA film yet. For me it is his most fascinating film, and i'm itching to see it again the more I think about it.
Definitely his most fascinating film.
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  #125  
Old 02-03-2013, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rustysyringe View Post
Whats wrong with just watching one of the most compellingly sad and loathsome character's in quite some time being put to screen for two hours?
Cue emo music*

jk...but in all seriousness, I don't need a character to change to be a good character and there are no written rules about how to write a character, (other than the obvious fact that the character has to be engaging in some sort of way, be it negatively or positively). I think the reason characters with growth tend to appeal to the masses more is that they inspire something in us, as well as reflect some of our personal ambitions and goals in life. They give us hope, while stagnant characters can frighten us with the dangers of never changing and being left behind by the world. Everyone gets some sort of comfort out of certain routines or elements in their lives that stay the same, but I think we can safely say that the majority of us have a desire, (be it however large or small) to stay relevant to/part of this world as it grows and changes itself.
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  #126  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:04 PM
The Master is more a character study than it is a film about Scientology or religion. In fact Joaquin Phoenix as Freddie is not only more important than the plot, he essentially is the plot. While there is a story and other characters here, there is never a question of the focus of the film. In choosing this path, PTA puts a tremendous burden on Phoenix. If he is not good, if he does not deliver, the film would be a disaster.

Thankfully, that is not the case here as Phoenix is excellent. And the character of Freddie is exceptionally well written. Calling it excellent may not be enough praise as Phoenix turns in by far his best work ever and should get the Oscar. He truly carries this film with a powerhouse performance. His presence and demeanor are captivating. He plays the character Freddie as such a raw, fractured, and unhinged person that even without PTA giving any back-story; you know he comes from an incredibly sad and abusive past.

Normally I personally want more details on a character like this. I am fascinated and sickened by the stories of abuse that serial killers, psychopaths, and sociopaths endure that make them what they are. I normally am frustrated by a story or movie that doesn't delve into that past in depth. But with Freddie, PTA and Phoenix somehow made me not even think about it. The character and performance were so raw and so good it felt like I knew him without having to be told what he had endured.

The praise being heaped on Phoenix is certainly warranted. This was his movie from start to finish. But that isn't meant to be a slight on Hoffman as Dodd. He is certainly an equally fascinating character and Hoffman is in top form as always. The parallels with the founding of Scientology are obvious here. Dodd is clearly a master manipulator, a con man, a thief, and displays sociopathic behavior. Watching Dodd one gets the impression a film centered around this character would be equally as impressive, maybe even more so. It's just this movie is focused around Phoenix as Freddie. So Hoffman's Dodd is forced to play second fiddle.

I have read many complaints about this films lack of a resolution and plot line. Freddie's character does not follow a traditional arc. In fact it could be said the character doesn't even change from beginning to end. He just aimlessly drifts through the movie and never really displays any growth. I honestly cannot grasp this line of thinking. Given the work Phoenix and PTA obviously put in, given the incredibly polarizing and electric character that is Freddie, I wonder how someone could so completely miss the point of this movie and want it to follow a more traditional path. I have also read the attempts to label this film as a criticism of Scientology. I can understand the correlations to Scientology and the desire to label this film as a story about its beginnings. But I don't feel that was the point of this film either. I feel the point of the movie was revealed by Dodd during the end when Freddie had returned to say goodbye. Dodd delivered what I felt was the most powerful and poignant line among many great lines when he said.....

For if you figure a way to live without serving a master, any master, then let us all know will you.

That to me is the point of the movie. Freddie lives his life serving no master. Yes he is flawed, yes he is tragic, yes he is unstable, and yes he will probably never know peace. But he lives life on his terms and does not need a significant other, a family, a career, a religion, or any of the other things in life most of us cling to in order to feel complete. He is happy and confident in himself just strolling through life drinking his hooch and womanizing. Personally I don't want Freddie to change. Knowing Freddie will probably continue through life just the way he is gives me comfort. A part of me is even envious of Freddie.

10/10, hands down best of the year.

Last edited by rustysyringe; 02-05-2013 at 08:20 PM..
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  #127  
Old 02-08-2013, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustysyringe View Post
Who says a character has to "change" to be a great character? Who says we have to witness someone experience "growth" to make a good movie? Whats wrong with just watching one of the most compellingly sad and loathsome character's in quite some time being put to screen for two hours? How about just enjoying him as a great character and not expecting him to grow or change?

Who made these "rules" about movies?

Tragic, dark, sympathetic, and appalling. Freddie made me feel all of these and more in a two hour period. I can't say any character has done this to me with such tremendous impact in quite some time. To me, whether he changed or not, whether there was a resolution or not, whether the movie "gets anywhere" or not makes no difference.
I feel like what you're saying is that this film works as an acting showcase for the talents of Joaquin Phoenix, but I don't think thats enough for the film to work as a whole. Its like PTA said "Heres this really odd and sad character. I wont bother telling you how he became this way, he wont change in any significant way, there wont be a very strong narrative, and I'm not going to use him to say anything particularly new or profound. But hey this guy can act can't he?"

Thats pretty much how I felt watching this movie. Sure, Freddie made me feel all of those emotions you named because JP did a great job playing him and PTA came up with some great individual scenes like the processing one. But without a stronger narrative or any real character growth the film is just a way to show off how great an actor is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustysyringe View Post

That to me is the point of the movie. Freddie lives his life serving no master. Yes he is flawed, yes he is tragic, yes he is unstable, and yes he will probably never know peace. But he lives life on his terms and does not need a significant other, a family, a career, a religion, or any of the other things in life most of us cling to in order to feel complete. He is happy and confident in himself just strolling through life drinking his hooch and womanizing. Personally I don't want Freddie to change.
The thing is I never got the feeling that Freddie felt complete in the end. He went back to find Dorris and you can tell that hes somewhat disappointed that shes moved on. He realizes that he cannot be apart of the Cause anymore so he finds himself a drifter once again. But I think Freddie does want a significant other and is lonely. He isn't complete even if he decides that he can no longer follow Dodd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rustysyringe View Post
Knowing Freddie will probably continue through life just the way he is gives me comfort. A part of me is even envious of Freddie.
I just have to say that this quote reminds me of the ending to the Big Lebowski. "The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. Its good knowing hes out there, "The Dude", taking it easy for all us sinners."

Last edited by Enigma; 02-08-2013 at 12:31 PM..
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  #128  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
The thing is I never got the feeling that Freddie felt complete in the end. He went back to find Dorris and you can tell that hes somewhat disappointed that shes moved on.
Sure, he was disappointed his first love was gone. Who wouldn't be? But honestly, what ever gave you the impression Freddie could make any relationship work long term? I got the impression that had Doris been there, had they got together, he would have grown restless with that as well. He is wild at heart, he will never tame, that's who he is.

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Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
He realizes that he cannot be apart of the Cause anymore so he finds himself a drifter once again. But I think Freddie does want a significant other and is lonely. He isn't complete even if he decides that he can no longer follow Dodd.
I think the only reason Freddie may want someone or something in his life is because society says he should want it. I do not think that Freddie really wants to settle down at all. It is not his nature, not who he is. If you notice he is happiest drinking his hooch and picking up strange women.

Spoiler:
Like at the very end, when he picks up the blonde in the bar and they are in bed. He is once again happy and laughing.


That is who he is at his core, a skirt chasing vagabond. You see, had Doris been there still, had they got together, it wouldn't have worked. He would have slept with another woman, drank too much hooch, or just taken off in the middle of the night without saying a word. Actually, probably a combination of all three.
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  #129  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rustysyringe View Post
Sure, he was disappointed his first love was gone. Who wouldn't be? But honestly, what ever gave you the impression Freddie could make any relationship work long term? I got the impression that had Doris been there, had they got together, he would have grown restless with that as well. He is wild at heart, he will never tame, that's who he is.
I never said I felt Freddie could actually make a relationship work, but he clearly desires one. He sough out Dorris not for sex, but because he wanted to be with her again and is sad that she moved on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rustysyringe View Post
I think the only reason Freddie may want someone or something in his life is because society says he should want it. I do not think that Freddie really wants to settle down at all. It is not his nature, not who he is. If you notice he is happiest drinking his hooch and picking up strange women.
I think Freddie desires connection with other people. The fact that he holds on to his memory of Dorris and the fact that he stays with the Cause for as long as he does is proof of this. But his nature makes it hard for him to do this. Dodd tries to tame him, but at the end of the day does Dodd fail because Freddy doesn't want to be tamed or simply because his methods are BS? Either way, even if Freddie decides he wants to serve no Master that doesn't mean he doesn't want to change or doesn't want to be around others because I think he truly does. After all he genuinely does try to stay with the Cause. I think Freddie's character, like the rest of the script is underwritten. I think PTA leaves a little too much to the viewer in terms of why Freddie is the way he is and why he makes the choices he makes. Theres being subtle and then theres just underwriting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustysyringe View Post
Spoiler:
Like at the very end, when he picks up the blonde in the bar and they are in bed. He is once again happy and laughing.


That is who he is at his core, a skirt chasing vagabond. You see, had Doris been there still, had they got together, it wouldn't have worked. He would have slept with another woman, drank too much hooch, or just taken off in the middle of the night without saying a word. Actually, probably a combination of all three.

Freddie went out of his way to seek Doris out which means at the very least he was going to attempt a relationship with her.
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  #130  
Old 04-14-2013, 05:43 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUU3f...ature=youtu.be
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  #131  
Old 04-14-2013, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Fantastic
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  #132  
Old 04-14-2013, 07:56 PM
For me looking at the Master as a comedy makes the film really good. So many funny moments in this.
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  #133  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by creekin111 View Post
For me looking at the Master as a comedy makes the film really good. So many funny moments in this.
I think it's the only way to think of it. Actually, it would actually make PTA a true master, genius filmmaker if that was his intention. Like a new breed of comedy. Not quite dramedy, but a comedy that's aiming to be unintentional. A new genre.
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  #134  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:08 PM
I struggled getting through this film, but I can't stand most of PTA's movies. I keep giving him chances because I enjoyed Boogie Nights so much but his style just doesn't mesh with mine. I won't say it's a bad film, I'll just say I didn't enjoy it.
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  #135  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:35 PM
I definitely need to own this.

So damn good.
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  #136  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digifruitella View Post
I think it's the only way to think of it. Actually, it would actually make PTA a true master, genius filmmaker if that was his intention. Like a new breed of comedy. Not quite dramedy, but a comedy that's aiming to be unintentional. A new genre.
It was sort of treated like the way Lars and the Real Girl was treated. In the hands of another director the material could easily be made into a goofy comedy.
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  #137  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:15 PM
Easily the funniest stretch for me is from the point when they get arrested to the moment when PSH opens his mouth for the first time... and you finally know who the crazy one really is. lol Even after that absolutely pin point Tasmanian Devil impersonation by Joaquin, PSH gives a perfect pause and leaves no doubt to the audience. btw what the fuck was Joaquin doing in that corner of that jail cell out of shot after he busts up the toilet?
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  #138  
Old 08-11-2013, 08:27 AM
Hilarious outtake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcTf7CO-hdA
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  #139  
Old 08-11-2013, 09:38 AM

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Originally Posted by Bourne101 View Post
Haha these guys would be so much fun to hang out with
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